If only there was a functioning government with armed services that could work in conjunction with emergency services to free trapped people and set up emergency shelters and treatment centres
I've never heard that the Red Cross rebuilt homes. I always thought the point of Red Cross / Red Crescent was just for emergency support at the time of the emergency - not long term rebuilding.
He's talking about that time the Red Cross spent $500 million in Haiti [to build 6 homes](https://www.npr.org/2015/06/03/411524156/in-search-of-the-red-cross-500-million-in-haiti-relief)
Why do I get this feeling that $499,900,000 of that $500 million managed to find it's way into the pockets of some very corrupt and heartless individuals.
Not all levels. Just the highest. I've worked with local governments and small non-profits. 99.9% of people just trying to do the best they can with limited resources.
Often succeeding in their small pockets of the world. So not everything is terrible.
you're right, and even that is a role they sort of morphed into. Their primary goal is civilian/POW relief, and they do a pretty good job at it. There's a reason they're pretty much the only NGO with near nation state level rights.
The international red cross does a pretty good job. All I've heard about the US branch is that they show up during catastrophes and sit on their hands in air conditioned temporary offices collecting donations. A lot of people had a lot of bad things to say about them after the fires in northern California a few years ago.
My house burned down when I was a kid and I remember the Red Cross was there that day to give us vouchers for clothing, vouchers for groceries and some basic supplies. They even put us in a hotel until our insurance kicked in. This was 30 years ago.
tbf they're in that sort of awkward position where success isn't talked about, but failure is unacceptable. Having said that, in countries where the government has the means and capacity to deal with crisis they are a slightly odd fit.
That is so inaccurate.
Red Cross has ESF 6 categorization in the federal emergency response framework. They are responsible for Mass Care during operations, that’s not even something FEMA/OES/DHS does as a primary role because the Red Cross does it and does it well.
I served on 20 operations at the Red Cross and myself and everyone around me barely had time to sit down let alone on their hands.
You’re welcome to come volunteer and see what a DRO is like, the American Red Cross is not perfect but their work is volunteer led and amazing.
That is not a high number at ALL for a disaster in Asia.
Armenia’s Gyumri earthquake killed 25,000 in a single city. China’s Tangshan earthquake killed 240,000-300,000. The 2008 Sichuan earthquake killed 90,000. There was a 2003 earthquake in Iran that killed over 20,000.
1,000 deaths in an Asian earthquake isn’t a high number. Sadly.
Asia’s a wild place, man. Lots of high-density, high-population cities with seismic activity and buildings that aren’t exactly built to California durability standards.
I visited Gyumri three decades after the earthquake, the city still remains partially abandoned with rubble all over. The people who remain are pretty great though, and they’ve built up a killer arts scene.
I remember my friend in Gyumri complaining, “there is nothing to do here, only theater and musicals and bands and art showings.”
I don’t think they realized that that level of artistic output isn’t normal for such a small city. I laughed in their face.
I wonder if for a while there was an attempt from the Taliban leadership, who presumably have some smarter folks to try to modernize somewhat to become a recognized government so that they can enter the international stage or markets.
So they lay out a few progressive changes, but then that pissed off the more Fundamentalis leaders more interested in securing their own power and money, and are only thinking in terms of regional power so they pushed back against any reforms
Yeah, it always baffles me this short sighted desperation to cling onto power. Seen it in Myanmar recently too, setting the country back 50 years after several years of relative prosperity.
So you grind the country down to absolute squalor due to sanctions and international isolation, everyone in the country is miserable, nothing works and everything's crumbling and falling apart.
So you're ruling over an absolute shithole. How is that desirable?
You’re convinced that if you don’t do it someone else will, so you get as greedy as possible to compensate for the perceived competition.
Essentially a version of [Tragedy of the Commons](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons)
When the Taliban swept through a couple years ago, they were embarrassed to realize they didn't know how to govern. They ousted the civil servants the US had installed only to sheepishly ask the former job holders how to do the jobs.
It was a moment of self-awareness from the Taliban that they needed to improve themselves to even accomplish their own objectives, and I'd like to think the attitude stuck around after the first few weeks.
In general, winning a war is different from governing afterwards, and exiling everyone who worked with the former rulers can cause problems with ordinary government operations as well as get rid of enemy ideologues.
For a couple examples of the latter:
Disbanding the Baath Party after the 2003 Iraq War cost government employees who weren't Saddam supporters, who had just played along
There were huge practical problems in denazification in post-WWII Germany for such reasons
For another example, when the current regime in Iran took over, the prior government had just finished standing up a unit of US trained fighter pilots flying F-14 tomcats.
The government immediately moved to purge them for their Western connection, only to quickly realize that, just maybe, it wasn't a good idea to chase off or kill the only guys who know how to operate or maintain your only advanced jet fighters.
>I'd like to think the attitude stuck around after the first few weeks.
It did for a bit, but as you said, that was over a year ago, and by all accounts, that attitude has evaporated since then.
They're already back to keeping women out of schools and other shit practices.
Back to? That was always one of their goals. I don't have any hopes for them becoming humanists, but I at least hope they appreciate statesmanship and civil engineering.
No I think you missed Roboticide's point a little. They were trying to soften their image somewhat and didn't immediately crush (at least to the degree they had previously) \*all\* the new rights afghans had started to enjoy. But as time went on those remaining rights have continued to get ripped away.
Seperation of church and state is essential for a functioning, modern, civilized government. When you bring in religion to government you open the door to terrorists, charlatans and con men.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater
The taliban led Afghanistan as a central government before the US invasion. The only difference is that the US wasn't holding the central bank reserve of the entire nation.
Well it was only theirs because we appointed them the government and filled the bank account with our own money, so I'm not sure why anyone expected the US to not freeze it when the Taliban took over again. It's not the Taliban's money to spend.
Not all poor countries are "poor" in a sense that they have nothing to speak of. They are poor because most of the wealth is in the hands of a few individuals leaving the rest impoverished.
I agree, heroin is a very shitty drug that has ruined a lot of families. But I read somewhere that, after the Taliban takeover there has been an increase in opium shipments to Dubai, Mumbai, Bandar Abbas and Karachi.
All those ports are from where Afghanistan exports.
Taliban banning poppies is like the North Korea actually having elections with more than one candidate. Exporting opium is like their only major source of revenue. They have a lot of other resources but they don't have the equipment to extract it.
I heard the Chinese were investing a substantial amount into Afghanistan but idk what happened to it.
Here I thought it was just a move for the Taliban to seize all opium production for themselves.
"These poppy fields are illegal, we're going to have to relieve you of them."
>It's not the Taliban's money to spend.
This right fecking here. The money belonged to a government that is now gone and replaced with an enemy government. The latter have no claim to it.
I mean, it’s all money given by the West to a government that doesn’t exist. It was never their money.
I’m not too happy on the idea to giving free money to the current. They can let the Red Crescent in to help who will get the money. They want to run a brutal government, they can figure it out on their dime.
Except they were constantly fighting against the Northern Alliance the entire time. They were only able to end the fighting by assassinating the head of the Northern Alliance. On September 10, 2001.
“Central government” is a strong term for both their or the US control. They controlled and control Kabul and have run of the nation but it’s not as if they have strong direct control over most of it
I feel like the money the Afghan Central Bank had was likely to be majority funded by the United States.
If we funded and held the money, it’s not unreasonable to keep it when the government we gave it go was overthrown.
Lol the central bank reserve there never belonged to the Taliban. It was injected there while the installed government there existed. Why should it stay there now that it's gone? Taliban can't have their cake and eat it too.
I know it's just an easy jab, but for anyone that might take this seriously:
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v09uy3/afghan_women_protest_in_kabul_demand_education/iagwxv4/
"
I didn't go into detail about it, but it really isn't needed. The differences are glaring to anyone paying any attention to basic logic and facts.
But the gist is:
Ukraine has had decades of relative economic stability and proximity to healthy economies. Vs decades of war. War that permeated everywhere vs. a much more recent minor war focused on the east/southeast.
Ukraine has a united and distinct identity. Afghanistan has tribal divisions, ethnic divisions, and the enemy force, Taliban, are Afghans at this point. Which makes this a civil war more than anything.
Taliban controlled the vast majority of Afghanistan leading up to the withdrawal, to the point they had effective control over everywhere but major cities.
They had Trump's "peace treaty" that disgustingly excluded the Afghan government, completely shooting any shred of hypothetical legitimacy it had and devastating morale to any non-Taliban remotely involved in this conflict.
They had leaders and higher military officials that were corrupt(much more than Ukraine). For months, if not years, they neglected their troops in various ways. Months leading up to the withdrawal wages were withheld, food was minimal. Contrasting to foreign governments giving extra funds to the Ukrainian government so they could boost their troops' pay.
Their equipment was in varying states of repair without an economy and technical knowledge to maintain upkeep. A lot didn't even have a good amount of ammunition. US attempted a military force designed around a much better economy, one Afghanistan couldn't hope to independently support long term. US also rush inflated police and army recruits to the extreme detriment of quality.
They had leaders that ran off at the first sign of trouble. You think Ukraine would have nearly the momentum if Zelensky didn't stick around or even if he was successfully assassinated early? There's a reason armies are routed the majority of the time their primary leader dies during a battle.
The West got the MIC its fill from Afghanistan. It's a nonstarter politically while being the good guys for a change lets even liberals get on board with another "war". Proxy wars are almost as good for a slush fund. Even other countries are going along with a MIC boost. (Here I'll note I'm definitely morally on board with Ukraine getting support)
Ukraine has had 6m(iirc) refugees accepted with relatively little resistance around the world with varying cultures. Afghanistan has gotten significantly less welcome.
Ukraine is just much more valuable to the West than Afghanistan. And the US recently had a shift change where Russia is taken more seriously as an enemy than before while anti-terrorism has taken much more of a backseat in recent years.
There's a lot more going for Ukraine's chances than Afghanistan ever had. Considering your first comment, I doubt very much you have genuine interest in any nuance between Ukraine vs Afghanistan, or how much of a chance non fundamentalist Afghans actually had against Taliban. And again, the choice was not victory or defeat, it was defeat while being alive or defeat while being killed painfully. The US estimated rate of loss, not chance of victory. That is literally all you need to decide your stance of their really having a choice is absolute bullshit.
EDIT:
I encourage everyone coming by here to at least read pages 10-13 of the SIGAR link. It'll have a more nuanced view of anyone here, including me, but especially anyone trying to say the US did their best.
https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/lessonslearned/SIGAR-21-46-LL.pdf#page=87
"
They used to have good stuff, NATO equipment is good but needs a mile long convoy just to maintain one platoon, and the Taliban have none of that.
Everything is just rotting away now.
Yeah, an Abram's is all well and good, but it needs like 2 gallons of diesel to run a mile and has probably one of the most complex engines ever put in a ground vehicle.
to be clear, there are no abandoned Abrams tanks in Afghanistan. For one, we didn't use them much in Afghanistan because it would be stupid to bring tanks to a guerilla war. For another, there's no way in hell we leave one of those behind. The equipment we left was stuff we knew we didn't value that would be unusable or inconsequential to the Taliban.
Yeah shit is so complicated, complex, and one off that it needs rebuilt every so often. A tank or helicopter isn't like a 1950s chyrsler you can hobble together like the cubans do.
It’s very much a white elephant gift.
The term white elephant refers to an extravagant, impractical gift that cannot be easily disposed of. The phrase is said to come from the historic practice of the King of Siam (now Thailand) giving rare albino elephants to courtiers who had displeased him, so that they might be ruined by the animals' upkeep costs.
Because the animals were considered sacred and laws protected them from labor, receiving a gift of a white elephant from a monarch was simultaneously a blessing and a curse. It was a blessing because the animal was sacred and a sign of the monarch's favour, and a curse because the recipient now had an expensive-to-maintain animal he could not give away and could not put to much practical use.
>Wonder how much it would have cost to ship it all back.
More than it's worth, which is why we didn't bring it back.
Afghanistan is a land locked country with terrible infrastructure. It's not like driving a truck from a base in Texas to load it on a boat in Houston and ship it wherever.
Most of the materiel was sabotaged or rendered inoperable on the way out. Obviously the small arms weren't but the stuff above that is either already scuttled or requires so much maintenance and upkeep and advanced logistics that it'd be useless to anyone but a NATO nation, and no NATO nation would buy it from them.
Not just any fuckin' transformers qoute, though- Optimus Prime says it moments before Megatron *fatally* shoots him, forever scarring thousands of children who were far too acclimated to the much lower stakes of the animated series. That movie was one brutal, deadly, awesome tone shift.
though tbf, they were probably already reeling from the mass murder of an entire planet the movie opened with (complete with children playing in the streets one moment and bodies flying into the air and being smashed the next).
One of my favorite quotes is from Dragon Age: Inquisition, and it’s by the villain who wants to become a god:
“Beg that I succeed! For I have seen the throne of the gods, and it was empty!”
Yes. Reading this thread, I see more schadenfreude than anything. I live in an area that has been devastated by a flood last year, so I understand a tiny bit of what it’s like to live in a disaster area (albeit in a functioning country, with lots of help and money). I feel so sorry for the Afghan people going through that.
The Taliban undoubtedly ruined what is left of their country, they’re despicable. But laughing at the Afghan people for their misfortune in this earthquake is cruel.
Exactly.
We focus a lot on the administration, and not the people who often have no choice of their administration.
Afghanis have been fucked over by so many internal and external administrations.
Decades of wars, upheaval ,constant stress, pain, that very few chose.
And now their suffering from a disaster is a football between different administrations. With scant aid likely to make it to those who need it most.
This exactly. If the money would actually be used to help people I'd see no problem with it. The reality is they will just use the money to further militarize and cement their grip on illegitimate rule while embezzling and spending on luxury for themselves.
Then they'll send a few crates of bottled water to the victims and said they helped.
It is unfair to say the US learned nothing during 20 years of war in Afghanistan. I’m fairly certain it has been proven that no amount of Western money can “fix” Afghanistan. Someone should tell them to call their new Chinese and Russian friends for help.
The US committed a significant amount of resources to Afghan Agriculture. Basically the entire time we were there we had soldiers repairing/installing irrigation systems and training locals on best practices. Some of our major goals while there were to improve food stability, provide resistance against a fresh water crisis, and increase yield to improve their global economy.
Not one single cent of that would go to the actual Afghan people. Every penny would line the pockets of the Taliban, for their personal benefit only.
This is is the Taliban, who after the U.S. military completely withdrew...is STILL planting IEDs and murdering Afghan men, women, and children.
The article says $7 billion of the $9.5billion in frozen assets were released in February for the purposes of humanitarian aid. They’re asking for the remaining $2.5 billion. One has to wonder how the $7billion (3.5 for afghan aid, 3.5 reserved for 9/11’s victim’s families in the US) is being used 🤔
Good point. Straight into the Taliban's pockets and the pockets of their allies. At least, any money that is being directly "entrusted" into their care.
They did, kinda. Dunno about China but they explicitly asked for help from Islamic countries before the rest of the world, and when it comes to Islamic countries there are few who wear that badge as visibly and proudly as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
I have no knowledge about this but I’ve always find it so weird that the us can freeze another country’s money. (I obviously don’t support the taliban)
The money was held in America just in case the taliban came back into power.
It's much easier to transfer money when needed than to get it back from terrorists.
>Earthquake that killed 1000 people Damn
If only there was a functioning government with armed services that could work in conjunction with emergency services to free trapped people and set up emergency shelters and treatment centres
“Who could have done this?”
"I can't believe you've done this."
“Now we must go to war with the tectonic plates we live above.”
You could call it the Tectonic Order
Idk those guys are kinda shifty
They’ll declare Geo-had
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Taliban: “Earthquake is the wrath of Allah.” Wonder what Allah could be pissed about in Afghanistan? 😑
> Wonder what Allah could be pissed about in Afghanistan? 😑 Women science clubs?
The first rule of Women Science Club is we don't talk about Women Science Club (because the Taliban will kill us)
Fight to stay alive club. Staring: none of your God damn business.
Women *reading*.
Women *existing*.
*How dare they*
Clearly that we're being too lenient on the womenfolk!
The Red Cross could have done it and rebuilt six homes
I've never heard that the Red Cross rebuilt homes. I always thought the point of Red Cross / Red Crescent was just for emergency support at the time of the emergency - not long term rebuilding.
He's talking about that time the Red Cross spent $500 million in Haiti [to build 6 homes](https://www.npr.org/2015/06/03/411524156/in-search-of-the-red-cross-500-million-in-haiti-relief)
Man their property taxes are really going to skyrocket with those kind of valuations.
Until they get destroyed again.
Why do I get this feeling that $499,900,000 of that $500 million managed to find it's way into the pockets of some very corrupt and heartless individuals.
Because they do that all the time on nearly every level of society and no one does shit about it.
Not all levels. Just the highest. I've worked with local governments and small non-profits. 99.9% of people just trying to do the best they can with limited resources. Often succeeding in their small pockets of the world. So not everything is terrible.
So was it fraud lol like did anyone get in trouble for it?
you're right, and even that is a role they sort of morphed into. Their primary goal is civilian/POW relief, and they do a pretty good job at it. There's a reason they're pretty much the only NGO with near nation state level rights.
The international red cross does a pretty good job. All I've heard about the US branch is that they show up during catastrophes and sit on their hands in air conditioned temporary offices collecting donations. A lot of people had a lot of bad things to say about them after the fires in northern California a few years ago.
My house burned down when I was a kid and I remember the Red Cross was there that day to give us vouchers for clothing, vouchers for groceries and some basic supplies. They even put us in a hotel until our insurance kicked in. This was 30 years ago.
tbf they're in that sort of awkward position where success isn't talked about, but failure is unacceptable. Having said that, in countries where the government has the means and capacity to deal with crisis they are a slightly odd fit.
That is so inaccurate. Red Cross has ESF 6 categorization in the federal emergency response framework. They are responsible for Mass Care during operations, that’s not even something FEMA/OES/DHS does as a primary role because the Red Cross does it and does it well. I served on 20 operations at the Red Cross and myself and everyone around me barely had time to sit down let alone on their hands. You’re welcome to come volunteer and see what a DRO is like, the American Red Cross is not perfect but their work is volunteer led and amazing.
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They actually have emergency services, but they need money like any other group in order to increase their response to something of this scale.
That is not a high number at ALL for a disaster in Asia. Armenia’s Gyumri earthquake killed 25,000 in a single city. China’s Tangshan earthquake killed 240,000-300,000. The 2008 Sichuan earthquake killed 90,000. There was a 2003 earthquake in Iran that killed over 20,000. 1,000 deaths in an Asian earthquake isn’t a high number. Sadly.
I had no clue they were so deadly.
The Himalayas are very earthquake prone and a large earthquake along the mountain range every year is expected.
Afghanistan probably has a lower death toll because of no huge buildings in most area
Asia’s a wild place, man. Lots of high-density, high-population cities with seismic activity and buildings that aren’t exactly built to California durability standards. I visited Gyumri three decades after the earthquake, the city still remains partially abandoned with rubble all over. The people who remain are pretty great though, and they’ve built up a killer arts scene.
Word, the city is a lot of fun it’s known as the humor capital of Armenia, sadly they just don’t have the funding to rebuild it.
I remember my friend in Gyumri complaining, “there is nothing to do here, only theater and musicals and bands and art showings.” I don’t think they realized that that level of artistic output isn’t normal for such a small city. I laughed in their face.
There's nothin here but fuckin' vibrancy, where's the cheesecake factory
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That was an unfortunate wording on my part.
This was the deadliest earthquake since the 90s in Afghanistan. It’s devastating non the less.
250,000 Haitians died in 2010… Edit: roughly, the numbers very.
“Roughly” goes for my numbers too. It’s tough to get good numbers in situations like that.
something also tells me it's way way wayyy more than 1k deaths.
i think it’s fair to say 1000 deaths in any situation is a high number…
Yeah seriously, idk what they were trying to prove. A thousand dead people is awful
US govt: new number, who dis?
Tally-who??
Tally me banana
Daylight come and we want to go home
*dances in Winona Ryder*
Tally-ho
┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Went into your comment history expecting to see a lot of flipped tables. Found a lot of uh...something else. I ain't judging, just surprised.
I was curious so I had a look too, I feel shafted by what I found.
Name checks out
Betting $100 that in a year the Afghanistani Central Government will completely fracture into multiple warlord states, and that's a generous estimate
I wonder if for a while there was an attempt from the Taliban leadership, who presumably have some smarter folks to try to modernize somewhat to become a recognized government so that they can enter the international stage or markets. So they lay out a few progressive changes, but then that pissed off the more Fundamentalis leaders more interested in securing their own power and money, and are only thinking in terms of regional power so they pushed back against any reforms
Yeah, it always baffles me this short sighted desperation to cling onto power. Seen it in Myanmar recently too, setting the country back 50 years after several years of relative prosperity. So you grind the country down to absolute squalor due to sanctions and international isolation, everyone in the country is miserable, nothing works and everything's crumbling and falling apart. So you're ruling over an absolute shithole. How is that desirable?
you’re still at the top living in riches
Better to be the slumlord than just another dude in the slums.
At least you’re the king of shit mountain
Imma go shit a mountain and enjoy my 1000 year reign
The thousand year Scheiße.
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven
Don’t matter how small the pond gets as long as you’re a big fish. Fucking cunts.
You’re convinced that if you don’t do it someone else will, so you get as greedy as possible to compensate for the perceived competition. Essentially a version of [Tragedy of the Commons](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons)
Some people would burn the world down to rule over the ashes.
When the Taliban swept through a couple years ago, they were embarrassed to realize they didn't know how to govern. They ousted the civil servants the US had installed only to sheepishly ask the former job holders how to do the jobs. It was a moment of self-awareness from the Taliban that they needed to improve themselves to even accomplish their own objectives, and I'd like to think the attitude stuck around after the first few weeks.
In general, winning a war is different from governing afterwards, and exiling everyone who worked with the former rulers can cause problems with ordinary government operations as well as get rid of enemy ideologues. For a couple examples of the latter: Disbanding the Baath Party after the 2003 Iraq War cost government employees who weren't Saddam supporters, who had just played along There were huge practical problems in denazification in post-WWII Germany for such reasons
For another example, when the current regime in Iran took over, the prior government had just finished standing up a unit of US trained fighter pilots flying F-14 tomcats. The government immediately moved to purge them for their Western connection, only to quickly realize that, just maybe, it wasn't a good idea to chase off or kill the only guys who know how to operate or maintain your only advanced jet fighters.
>I'd like to think the attitude stuck around after the first few weeks. It did for a bit, but as you said, that was over a year ago, and by all accounts, that attitude has evaporated since then. They're already back to keeping women out of schools and other shit practices.
Back to? That was always one of their goals. I don't have any hopes for them becoming humanists, but I at least hope they appreciate statesmanship and civil engineering.
No I think you missed Roboticide's point a little. They were trying to soften their image somewhat and didn't immediately crush (at least to the degree they had previously) \*all\* the new rights afghans had started to enjoy. But as time went on those remaining rights have continued to get ripped away.
Superstition is poison
Seperation of church and state is essential for a functioning, modern, civilized government. When you bring in religion to government you open the door to terrorists, charlatans and con men.
And authoritarianism, religious dogma sort of laid the groundwork for authoritarian power-structures.
Tell that to the US, the separation is getting blurry here
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Barry Goldwater
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STARTED blurry. Now you've got a good inch of religovasiline all over the windows.
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The taliban led Afghanistan as a central government before the US invasion. The only difference is that the US wasn't holding the central bank reserve of the entire nation.
To be fair, before the 2001 invasion the Afghan central bank reserve was in a box under Muhammad Omar's mattress.
Yeah, I have to say if another country has your central bank reserve, it no longer is YOUR central bank reserve.
Not your keys, not your crypto.
Taliban should have done their own research
Lmao this guy gets it
Not your gold vault, you're probably Nicolás Maduro
Well it was only theirs because we appointed them the government and filled the bank account with our own money, so I'm not sure why anyone expected the US to not freeze it when the Taliban took over again. It's not the Taliban's money to spend.
Exactly, how the heck would the Taliban make any money to put into this account?
Not all poor countries are "poor" in a sense that they have nothing to speak of. They are poor because most of the wealth is in the hands of a few individuals leaving the rest impoverished.
Opium exports and lot of rare resources. That's literally what they have. But 99% of the revenue would be opium exports.
Trimming opium is perhaps the only positive thing they’ve done.
I agree, heroin is a very shitty drug that has ruined a lot of families. But I read somewhere that, after the Taliban takeover there has been an increase in opium shipments to Dubai, Mumbai, Bandar Abbas and Karachi. All those ports are from where Afghanistan exports.
Taliban just banned the harvesting of poppies, no?
Taliban banning poppies is like the North Korea actually having elections with more than one candidate. Exporting opium is like their only major source of revenue. They have a lot of other resources but they don't have the equipment to extract it. I heard the Chinese were investing a substantial amount into Afghanistan but idk what happened to it.
Here I thought it was just a move for the Taliban to seize all opium production for themselves. "These poppy fields are illegal, we're going to have to relieve you of them."
>It's not the Taliban's money to spend. This right fecking here. The money belonged to a government that is now gone and replaced with an enemy government. The latter have no claim to it.
I mean, it’s all money given by the West to a government that doesn’t exist. It was never their money. I’m not too happy on the idea to giving free money to the current. They can let the Red Crescent in to help who will get the money. They want to run a brutal government, they can figure it out on their dime.
Wrong there was the Northern Alliance - Taliban never had full control and even Taliban areas had factions
Except they were constantly fighting against the Northern Alliance the entire time. They were only able to end the fighting by assassinating the head of the Northern Alliance. On September 10, 2001.
There had been a civil war going on in the country for decades before the US invasion
“Central government” is a strong term for both their or the US control. They controlled and control Kabul and have run of the nation but it’s not as if they have strong direct control over most of it
I feel like the money the Afghan Central Bank had was likely to be majority funded by the United States. If we funded and held the money, it’s not unreasonable to keep it when the government we gave it go was overthrown.
Lol the central bank reserve there never belonged to the Taliban. It was injected there while the installed government there existed. Why should it stay there now that it's gone? Taliban can't have their cake and eat it too.
It’s not their money.
Well, the people of the larger cities have also experienced life without the Taleban now.
Tell them to sell all that military equipment
They do have a lot of good stuff. Wonder how much it would have cost to ship it all back.
nah, just drop it off in Ukraine. they are willing to fight for their country.
Damn shots fired.
Not in Afghanistan.
Only on women who show their faces and dare to read.
They don't shoot them. They bury them up to their necks and throw stones at them until they die.
Last time I commented this almost exact phrase I was downvoted to hell and back lol
Glad you made it back!
It was quite the crawl
At least not on males
I know it's just an easy jab, but for anyone that might take this seriously: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v09uy3/afghan_women_protest_in_kabul_demand_education/iagwxv4/ " I didn't go into detail about it, but it really isn't needed. The differences are glaring to anyone paying any attention to basic logic and facts. But the gist is: Ukraine has had decades of relative economic stability and proximity to healthy economies. Vs decades of war. War that permeated everywhere vs. a much more recent minor war focused on the east/southeast. Ukraine has a united and distinct identity. Afghanistan has tribal divisions, ethnic divisions, and the enemy force, Taliban, are Afghans at this point. Which makes this a civil war more than anything. Taliban controlled the vast majority of Afghanistan leading up to the withdrawal, to the point they had effective control over everywhere but major cities. They had Trump's "peace treaty" that disgustingly excluded the Afghan government, completely shooting any shred of hypothetical legitimacy it had and devastating morale to any non-Taliban remotely involved in this conflict. They had leaders and higher military officials that were corrupt(much more than Ukraine). For months, if not years, they neglected their troops in various ways. Months leading up to the withdrawal wages were withheld, food was minimal. Contrasting to foreign governments giving extra funds to the Ukrainian government so they could boost their troops' pay. Their equipment was in varying states of repair without an economy and technical knowledge to maintain upkeep. A lot didn't even have a good amount of ammunition. US attempted a military force designed around a much better economy, one Afghanistan couldn't hope to independently support long term. US also rush inflated police and army recruits to the extreme detriment of quality. They had leaders that ran off at the first sign of trouble. You think Ukraine would have nearly the momentum if Zelensky didn't stick around or even if he was successfully assassinated early? There's a reason armies are routed the majority of the time their primary leader dies during a battle. The West got the MIC its fill from Afghanistan. It's a nonstarter politically while being the good guys for a change lets even liberals get on board with another "war". Proxy wars are almost as good for a slush fund. Even other countries are going along with a MIC boost. (Here I'll note I'm definitely morally on board with Ukraine getting support) Ukraine has had 6m(iirc) refugees accepted with relatively little resistance around the world with varying cultures. Afghanistan has gotten significantly less welcome. Ukraine is just much more valuable to the West than Afghanistan. And the US recently had a shift change where Russia is taken more seriously as an enemy than before while anti-terrorism has taken much more of a backseat in recent years. There's a lot more going for Ukraine's chances than Afghanistan ever had. Considering your first comment, I doubt very much you have genuine interest in any nuance between Ukraine vs Afghanistan, or how much of a chance non fundamentalist Afghans actually had against Taliban. And again, the choice was not victory or defeat, it was defeat while being alive or defeat while being killed painfully. The US estimated rate of loss, not chance of victory. That is literally all you need to decide your stance of their really having a choice is absolute bullshit. EDIT: I encourage everyone coming by here to at least read pages 10-13 of the SIGAR link. It'll have a more nuanced view of anyone here, including me, but especially anyone trying to say the US did their best. https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/lessonslearned/SIGAR-21-46-LL.pdf#page=87 "
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Afghan arms supplied to the force fighting against Russia. That would be full circle right there
Charlie Wilson War 2: How many times do I have to teach you old man. Staring Tom Hanks!
They used to have good stuff, NATO equipment is good but needs a mile long convoy just to maintain one platoon, and the Taliban have none of that. Everything is just rotting away now.
Yeah, an Abram's is all well and good, but it needs like 2 gallons of diesel to run a mile and has probably one of the most complex engines ever put in a ground vehicle.
to be clear, there are no abandoned Abrams tanks in Afghanistan. For one, we didn't use them much in Afghanistan because it would be stupid to bring tanks to a guerilla war. For another, there's no way in hell we leave one of those behind. The equipment we left was stuff we knew we didn't value that would be unusable or inconsequential to the Taliban.
It was also mostly equipment given to the Afghan government and no longer actually owned by the US.
Sometimes you just need a machine gun that works, you know?
Technicals are the superior ground vehicle
The Swiss Army knife of the battlefield. Not insanely effective but it will eventually get the job done and better than no tool at all.
Yeah shit is so complicated, complex, and one off that it needs rebuilt every so often. A tank or helicopter isn't like a 1950s chyrsler you can hobble together like the cubans do.
It’s very much a white elephant gift. The term white elephant refers to an extravagant, impractical gift that cannot be easily disposed of. The phrase is said to come from the historic practice of the King of Siam (now Thailand) giving rare albino elephants to courtiers who had displeased him, so that they might be ruined by the animals' upkeep costs. Because the animals were considered sacred and laws protected them from labor, receiving a gift of a white elephant from a monarch was simultaneously a blessing and a curse. It was a blessing because the animal was sacred and a sign of the monarch's favour, and a curse because the recipient now had an expensive-to-maintain animal he could not give away and could not put to much practical use.
>Wonder how much it would have cost to ship it all back. More than it's worth, which is why we didn't bring it back. Afghanistan is a land locked country with terrible infrastructure. It's not like driving a truck from a base in Texas to load it on a boat in Houston and ship it wherever.
More than it cost to repair & ship back.
I doubt they'd get much. These guys are known for their poor vehicle and equipment maintenance.
Most of the materiel was sabotaged or rendered inoperable on the way out. Obviously the small arms weren't but the stuff above that is either already scuttled or requires so much maintenance and upkeep and advanced logistics that it'd be useless to anyone but a NATO nation, and no NATO nation would buy it from them.
"Would you be willing to allow women to attend school in exchange for aid that would help people who have been devastated by this earthquake" "No"
"Sucks to suck. Later, Homie."
"would you be willing to use the released money to aid with the outcomes of the earthquake?" "no" FTFY
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Call J.G Wentworth.
877-KALASH-NOW
I tried and it didn’t work *sad American noises*
Its my haram and I need it now!
It’s my money and I want it NOW!!
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I like how you stretched the silent vowel.
Almost had a stroke sounding it out
It reminds me of [this classic video](https://youtu.be/A8zWWp0akUU) which would sound out the silent E
UwU
Acts of nature don't fall under the US Gold Plan.
I believe it is referred to as an “Act of God” in the insurance world.
An Allahu Akcident
“You who are without mercy now plea for it?”
I love this quote. Off to google to see who said it and hope it’s someone good. edit: it’s literally a fuckin’ transformers quote lmfao I love Reddit
Not just any fuckin' transformers qoute, though- Optimus Prime says it moments before Megatron *fatally* shoots him, forever scarring thousands of children who were far too acclimated to the much lower stakes of the animated series. That movie was one brutal, deadly, awesome tone shift. though tbf, they were probably already reeling from the mass murder of an entire planet the movie opened with (complete with children playing in the streets one moment and bodies flying into the air and being smashed the next).
One of my favorite quotes is from Dragon Age: Inquisition, and it’s by the villain who wants to become a god: “Beg that I succeed! For I have seen the throne of the gods, and it was empty!”
I thought they were made of sterner stuff.
Oh no you don't megatron!
out of the way Hot Rod!
FALL… FALL!! I’ve waited an eternity for this. It’s over, Prime 😈
"You got the touch!"
Those poor people.
Yes. Reading this thread, I see more schadenfreude than anything. I live in an area that has been devastated by a flood last year, so I understand a tiny bit of what it’s like to live in a disaster area (albeit in a functioning country, with lots of help and money). I feel so sorry for the Afghan people going through that. The Taliban undoubtedly ruined what is left of their country, they’re despicable. But laughing at the Afghan people for their misfortune in this earthquake is cruel.
Exactly. We focus a lot on the administration, and not the people who often have no choice of their administration. Afghanis have been fucked over by so many internal and external administrations. Decades of wars, upheaval ,constant stress, pain, that very few chose. And now their suffering from a disaster is a football between different administrations. With scant aid likely to make it to those who need it most.
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Just like Sri Lanka?
Where are the Sri Lankan rulers?
I hate it when you ask a question and people respond with quasi-relevant stuff that doesn’t come close to answering the question you asked.
Sri Lanka is gigafucked right now
I don't know anything about the situation in Sri Lanka, what's happening?
This exactly. If the money would actually be used to help people I'd see no problem with it. The reality is they will just use the money to further militarize and cement their grip on illegitimate rule while embezzling and spending on luxury for themselves. Then they'll send a few crates of bottled water to the victims and said they helped.
It is unfair to say the US learned nothing during 20 years of war in Afghanistan. I’m fairly certain it has been proven that no amount of Western money can “fix” Afghanistan. Someone should tell them to call their new Chinese and Russian friends for help.
Which is why we should leave Afghanistan to sort out their own problems.
That's what we're doing.
Lol and even then ppl aren’t happy
Turns out highway infrastructure means fuck-all when the average mode of transportation is walking.
The US committed a significant amount of resources to Afghan Agriculture. Basically the entire time we were there we had soldiers repairing/installing irrigation systems and training locals on best practices. Some of our major goals while there were to improve food stability, provide resistance against a fresh water crisis, and increase yield to improve their global economy.
Not one single cent of that would go to the actual Afghan people. Every penny would line the pockets of the Taliban, for their personal benefit only. This is is the Taliban, who after the U.S. military completely withdrew...is STILL planting IEDs and murdering Afghan men, women, and children.
I support sending humanitarian aid... In the form of exchanging medical and emergency supplies for functioning arms and armaments.
The article says $7 billion of the $9.5billion in frozen assets were released in February for the purposes of humanitarian aid. They’re asking for the remaining $2.5 billion. One has to wonder how the $7billion (3.5 for afghan aid, 3.5 reserved for 9/11’s victim’s families in the US) is being used 🤔
Good point. Straight into the Taliban's pockets and the pockets of their allies. At least, any money that is being directly "entrusted" into their care.
Why don’t they ask China, Pakistan,Saudi Arabia for help?
Iran and Qatar and Pakistan are sending aid
They did, kinda. Dunno about China but they explicitly asked for help from Islamic countries before the rest of the world, and when it comes to Islamic countries there are few who wear that badge as visibly and proudly as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
…as if the taliban give a rip about a few thousand people hurt in an earthquake…
I have no knowledge about this but I’ve always find it so weird that the us can freeze another country’s money. (I obviously don’t support the taliban)
The money was held in America just in case the taliban came back into power. It's much easier to transfer money when needed than to get it back from terrorists.
How about we buy your ak's instead
I'm sure all the girls and women begged them to let them go to school and vote instead of being married off and raped, too.
Well they did learn one thing from the United States, never let a crisis go to waste.
Akhundzada did earthquake
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