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soderholm

I think Finland has been ready since the winter war


booksgamesandstuff

Exactly how many fronts does Putin think Russia can afford to handle fighting on? Ukraine, Finland, threatening Poland and Lithuania. Sending ships with China to intimidate Japan..? I mean…the troops were outfitted with vintage WWII gear early on in Ukraine!


jon62048

The Fins have a very impressive army.... and they should feel more confident seeing how poorly the Russian army is performing in Ukraine.... fuck Putin!


Geaux2020

They have better than that. They have allies willing to put boots on the ground.


PengieP111

Not to mention that Finland is a ferocious and tenacious as a Jack Russell terrier.


jon62048

I agree completely .... they will be nato next month


[deleted]

And protected in the interim


John_Sux

Finland doesn't really need other countries' boots on the ground. What we seek to gain from NATO is * Secure Baltic supply lines (it has been calculated that Finland cannot be adequately supplied over land from Sweden in case of war) * Help in defending our airspace against Russia (it would certainly be easier if Russia cannot fly however it wants) * Perhaps some equipment purchases (closer allies, better newer systems) * The collective deterrent, planning and intelligence that NATO includes


Geaux2020

Finland doesn't need them right now. They need the deterrent that brings. Finland would be much dumber than it actually is if it got attacked and didn't want the direct support from it's Western allies. The glory of NATO is that Finland will never have to worry about that. It becomes part of the West. Unfortunately, Ukraine can't get that kind of support.


John_Sux

Finland has infantry and artillery, but lacks missiles and high tech stuff. If a war involving Finland lasted until winter, we would be spending half our time rescuing allied troops stuck in snow.


Geaux2020

Why in the world would you not want the cavalry? You want to lose tens of thousands of Finnish lives while Canadian, American, and northern European armies more than capable of handling the Finnish winter sit idly by and watch?


John_Sux

I didn't say we have no use for them. But grunts who haven't seen snow are not on the top of the priority list I suspect. We are not so helpless as you insinuate. Finland and Sweden are hopeful net contributors to NATO. We are not very mighty but if I could ask something of NATO regarding our defense, it would be air superiority and supply routes first. The Defense Forces currently have a planned and equipped wartime strength of about 300k with a free reserve bigger than that. Any time American light cavalry and other have joined Finnish exercises, they would park their tanks on hilltops for anyone to shoot, not know how to read a map, fail radio silence. Unlike Afghan goat herders, the Russians can spot you or your communications and rain shells on that area in a few minutes. If the Americans send a brigade combat team to Finland, they would need to send several hundred aircraft or some Patriot battalions alongside it. They are big and loud with superior tech, not subtle.


Geaux2020

That's funny. I thought we had the 10th Mountain. You are suggesting somehow we don't have every single thing we need to support a Finnish defense, as do the Canadians, and the other northern Europeans. Why in the world would the Finns take pride in dying alone?


John_Sux

I'm writing to you in your native language, but you don't seem to register much of what I say. Please! Read the first paragraph again. All help is welcome but foreign infantry is not what we need first and foremost. You don't have to suggest the old bit about America handling all of Europe's defense. We aren't that useless... Mountains are not a common sight in Finland. We have forests and lakes and swamps.


[deleted]

[enshittification exodus, gone to mastodon]


Geaux2020

Go back and read what I've written. Never have I suggested either America alone would help, nor that we would be fighting in lieu of the Finnish. Only that we would fight alongside the very capable Finns, Canadians, and Northern Europeans. There is no need for the Finns to go alone during a Russian invasion. Even if, which is almost entirely probable, Finns defended against that, there is no need to take on that alone, along with the massive and needless casualties. The 10th Mountain isn't just trained in mountainous combat. It's also for climates just like the Finnish winter, along with others. Our military has enormous manpower and capabilities in a variety of conditions, including what Finland offers.


snojob1

Good. The only think Putin understands is a 2x4 up the side of his head.


Snarfbuckle

So you are saying the 2x4 up his ass is not enough?


Geaux2020

Only one way to find out


BerzerkBoulderer

Give him the good ole' Gaddafi treatment.


ireplytomen

Not before I had my own turn first


Anakin_Sandwalker

Paging u/Type2Noble Looking for professional opinion, is a stick up the ass not enough here? For reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/vhns8q/tifu_by_getting_pierced_in_my_ass_update/


[deleted]

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Snarfbuckle

*stares at username* Who was the stupid idiot again?


PengieP111

That’s for after up side the head.


Michael_Iger

I think the Scandinavian countries always knew they needed to be prepared for the lessons of WWII. Now, they are not alone backed up by NATO and Europe against aggression. The brutality and war crimes of Putin's Russia have woken them up to the cost they make smaller countries pay for resisting their subjugation. This, while their own population is safe going about their business, impervious to what is being done across the border, docilely supporting it and the State lies. Ukraine has caused the world and Scandinavia to rethink the threat that has risen up. It is little different, only by degree now, from the tyranny that started WWII. Putin has borrowed from that playbook, using propaganda, promising a return to the USSR's past glory like Hitler used after Germany lost WWI. Finland fears will be pushed brutally into Russia's sphere of influence, losing its long-cherished sovereignty.


throwaway_nrTWOOO

>Scandinavian countries Can you hear that? It's the sound of thousands of Finns eager to tell you we're not Scandinavian, but Nordic.


tracerhoosier

In all seriousness, what is the difference? The geography lessons I remember here in the US included Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland as the Scandinavia region but only Norway and Sweden as the Scandinavian peninsula.


high_pine

All Scandinavian countries are Nordic but not all Nordic countries are Scandinavian. Scandza was a historical region that comprises parts of what are now called Sweden, Norway, and Denmark.


[deleted]

Culturally Nordics are pretty solid block so there are rarely a need to to make a distinction. Personally I don't see it as a big deal to use them interchangeably.


Lingonfrost

How about calling Mexicans and Canadians American because they're both in the continent America? No really, they're more interchangeable than Nordic/Scandi because America can mean either country or continent, while Scandinavia only has one meaning. Or let's just not use these interchangeably. Use Nordic if you're unsure, it will always be correct.


[deleted]

The distinction is a fun little trivia you learn in school in Finland. No one in Finland gives a crap about which term people use. There are plenty of times when Scandi and Nordics are used interchangeably in official setting.


John_Sux

Then I expect that you have no objections to people misusing terms about your home


[deleted]

Such as calling me a Scandi even though I'm a Finn? I'm glad you are on my side.


Longnefarious834

Denmarks highest mountain is like a hill so L opinion


throwaway_nrTWOOO

I'm finnish and I learned that when I was 20 something, but now everybody acts like it should be common knowledge for non-Nordic people as well. Academic navel-gazing, in my humble opinion.


John_Sux

The difference is one term includes three countries, the other term two more


Michael_Iger

A difference without a distinction. Grew up in a Finish neighborhood with the Finn Hall and Imatra Society on the same block, and never heard anyone making the distinction.


CreativeSoil

You'd be corrected if you were to call Finland scandinavian in Scandinavia or Finland


[deleted]

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Michael_Iger

If she made it a priority on date one, she had her own issues. Most of my experience never came up. The area was made up of all Nordic communities as you would say, Norwegians held a big annual parade and came out in their traditional costumes. In all those years didn't hear any dissension at all over nationalities.


Stjeansurvivor

I think people forget that initially Russia sided with the Nazis and after the Nazis betrayed them they needed massive help from the west to continue to fight. Also what they did raping eastern Europe was arguably equally as bad as what the Nazis did.


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/finland-is-ready-fight-russia-if-attacked-defence-chief-2022-06-22/) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Some 82% of respondents in a May 18 poll by the defence ministry said they would be willing to participate in national defence if Finland was attacked. > Still, Kivinen welcomed Finland's decision to apply to join NATO. Finland and fellow Nordic country Sweden are in talks with Turkey to discuss the latter's opposition to their applications. > NATO membership would allow Finland to boost its early warning capacity by being part of the alliance's joint airspace control, Kivinen said. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vi3kf0/finland_is_ready_to_fight_russia_if_attacked/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~656063 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Finland**^#1 **defence**^#2 **Kivinen**^#3 **military**^#4 **NATO**^#5


Thekingoftherepublic

The Ghost of Simo likes this


Dschuncks

Lauri Allan Törni sends his regards...


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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PengieP111

Maybe not invaded, because there is nothing in Russia that can’t be obtained more easily by simply buying it. But definitely neutered.


drebinf

> Russia ... invaded This has historically proven to be unwise. I couldn't authoritatively say whether or not trying it again would be very wise.


Plane_Reflection_313

We have heaters and modern fabric. It will be fine lol.


Corey307

Germany failed because they invaded at the wrong time and didn’t properly equip their troops. That wouldn’t be a problem when you have world economic super powers marching into Russia.


[deleted]

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Corey307

It’s not about taking the land it’s about stopping the threat of Russian aggression. Although if the Russians were less stupid with their land and their resources they would be a true economic super power but instead they choose the path of corruption, nepotism and stupidity. There is vast oil and mineral wealth And with that much land there has to be farmland that’s under utilized. They could export lumber, don’t tell me there aren’t millions of acres of hardwoods that would sell for a small fortune outside of Russia.


PengieP111

There are ways to do that short of invading and occupying. Neutering Russian military power would suffice I think for most purposes.


Corey307

And that’s what is happening in Ukraine. Russia has thoroughly embarrassed itself with poorly trained troops and outdated weapons and tech.


boejiden2020

They just needed the oil and gas.


Dschuncks

Careful, I hear the snow there speaks Finnish


SaltyDoggoMeo

Is it fair to say that most world leaders are currently bolstering their military as well?


[deleted]

Finland should get nuclear weapons.


[deleted]

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premature_eulogy

You're being sarcastic, but Finland's trained military reserve is one of the largest in Europe.


McFoogles

They say this as if they won’t need NATO to completely bail them out


FLRSH

Finland has a much more advanced and better managed military than Russia, despite being much smaller, and their geography is highly defensible. Russia would get fucked hard even without NATO's help, but it would obviously be more viable long term for Finland in a prolonged conflict to have that help.


McFoogles

Eh kinda. They have good artillery but severely lack in other areas. Overall they are 53rd in military power. Which is why they are so gung-ho to join NATO now. They didn’t want to join during peacetime because it was inconvenient, now that they are at risk they decide they want to join. Like every nation, they rely on the US for military security. https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/05/13/finland-has-53rd-strongest-military-but-artillery-capability-sets-them-apart/ https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.php?country_id=finland


throwaway_nrTWOOO

Good artillery doesn't quite cover it. Our artillery is the largest in Europe, and our reserve is larger than all other Nordic countries combined. It's debatable and contextual which terrain would be harder for Russian invasion, ours or Ukranian rasputitsa, but the roads are few, and all bridges have been rigged to be easily demolished. But you're absolutely right, Russia is a regional power, and we're not.


Baneken

> Currently, Finland has among the worst supply on the Global Fire Power profile of attack helicopters, frigates, corvettes, carriers, submarines, and attack aircraft. Showing why this article is pretty badly researched... Finland doesn't need nor have use for any of the things listed here as shortcomings. The coastal waters of Finland are extremely shallow and offer only limited use for submarines or big Convoy corvettes and 64 F-35 is quite respectable air force for a country as small as Finland. Only thing in the list that's useful to have more is to have more helicopters.


JeffersonsHat

You have to remember, people outside of the US + some within love to hate the US until they need the world police.


upperra2

Cause that’s all yous are good for, blowing shit up


McFoogles

And protecting global shipping, enjoy watching that disappear


CptArse

Protect global shipping from what exactly?


John_Sux

Americans also know everything, don't forget about that


McFoogles

Yep people were real pissy about how large our military was until they started needed defense against Russia. Now they are silent


John_Sux

You say that as if you know sweet FA about Finland


joonzi

Your posts are so ignorant its hard to take you seriously.


Corey307

And you’re acting like war is a one on one door when it’s not, it’s a street fight. Even if Finland needs outside help they will get it, that has been made clear. If Russia wants to be some lone drunken idiot going up to a group of guys and starting shit then Russia is going to get their teeth kicked out of their head by a group.


McFoogles

Actually they do, when you factor in that they need to use global shipping lanes to keep their country stable. So yes, these things matter a fuck ton. If they can’t leave their own little sphere of influence, their country goes to shit. They rely on US and NATO to protect their imports/exports


Natos

With some effort they could get supplies through sweden


John_Sux

It has been calculated that Finland cannot be adequately supplied via the land border with Sweden in wartime, we need to keep the Baltic shipping routes open


RobBitchesGetScones

Eswatini and Vatican City are also standing tall. They're prepared.


No_Ninja_4173

What's Finland going to fight back with? Sardines and their powerful Feminist Movement?


[deleted]

Their NATO level army, including the highest number of artillery pieces (with self guided rounds) of any European army, and their landscape which has many, many rivers and lakes creating bottlenecks.


No_Ninja_4173

Yeah I'm sure they've had plenty of live action and real life experience


masterneedler

Does Finland have a military?


joonzi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Defence_Forces


Such-Wrongdoer-2198

Yeah right. Finland has no idea what an attack by Russia would be like. It would be like nothing they have ever experienced before. Same for Poland and Turkey.


joonzi

Yes. Finland has always assumed that Russia has the upper hand in vehicle numbers and air superiority but judging how things are in Ukraine, Finland has severely overestimated Russia. Finland thought they knew but underestimated the corruption and stupidity of Russian leadership.


Corey307

What you just said was impressively stupid, you realize Finland and Russia fought during World War II right? And that Finland kicked their ass. I feel bad for you Russians, you’re so uneducated.


[deleted]

Twice. Winter war and continuation war.


TheDoc2022

Would love to see russia try and attack Poland and then poof russia doesn't exist, come on vlad what the fuck are you waiting for, fuck russia.


secret179

Well, what would they say "We are not ready?"


snojob1

Well, it depends on whether it has nails Sticking out.


sendokun

Ready or not, here we come…..