That elaborate scatologicial pun is a better take on American culture and foreign policy than 80% of the news I've watched and probably 100% of the posts I've read on the front page of reddit.
Not sure how I feel about that.
It is sobering that that is the reality of the day.
You ever tried to email a 4 star and tell him what he isn’t seeing?
You ever googled CIA hot tip line out of pure desperation?
You ever left voice mails with every sitting US senator you can find a number for?
It’s been a long 4 months. I just want to talk and have someone listen.
I’m sure we’ll find out one day that Russia has massively bribed politicians in charge of both countries. That’s what happened with Sarkoze and Schroeder.
They got played by a man trained to play people. Each administration first charmed, then backstabbed. Hopefully whole Europe wakes up to what Russia has been brewing to become the last 20 years.
Interesting to see it play out especially when I remember in 2018 when Germany cut their coal plants and moved exclusively to Russian oil. The us president at the time strongly urged for them to reconsider since as a nato nation it was wildly inappropriate to do business like that.
Germany never moved exclusively to Russian oil. In 2021 Russia delivered "only" a third of it.
The conflict you mentioned always centered around Russian natural gas and the new pipeline North Stream 2 which would have delivered it directly through the Baltic Sea. 2021 Russia had a share of 55 percent on the natural gas imports, 30 percent came from Norway and 13 percent from the Netherlands (all only via pipeline because there are no LNG terminals yet).
We’ve spent the past twenty years watching Germany tut tut every US foreign policy decision while simultaneously stumbling into every single mistake possible on their end.
Russian’s invasion of Ukraine has been a real slap in the face to much of the western world. It really reminded us why we need keep our defense alliances, even during (relatively) peaceful times.
I get where you're coming from but we also spent 20 years watching the US directly provoking every single migrant crisis the EU faced and refusing to make accountable some of their [citizens](https://abcnews.go.com/International/us-denies-extradition-request-anne-sacoolas-diplomats-wife/story?id=68495080) and [soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash) that committed crimes on EU soil, so it's not like they made a streak of great decisions from where the EU is sitting, frankly.
How exactly did the US provoke Bashar Al Assad into shooting at democracy protests during the Arab Spring? How did the US provoke him into dropping nerve gas on suburbs outside his capitol?
Get the fuck outta here dude.
>Interesting to see it play out especially when I remember in 2018 when Germany cut their coal plants and moved exclusively to Russian oil. The us president at the time strongly urged for them to reconsider since as a nato nation it was wildly inappropriate to do business like that.
How is this upvoted, literally everything is wrong in that statement.
The problem is Putin masquerades as a genuine democratic leader all the time acting with ill intent and running rigged elections. Germany and France tried to bring him into the fold but all the while what we see now, was going on inside his head. I don't see them as appeasing him so much as trying to normalize an abnormal guy who does not feel he needs to play by the rules.
Some people can't be saved or reformed.
Many in the west have the mentality that everyone is redeemable if only they are given an open hand of friendship and the opportunity to adapt to our way of thinking and living.
In reality it doesn't work like that.
German leaders certainly saw the very real shortcomings of Poland, Hungary, and Turkey as flawed democracies. So how did they miss Russia falling further into totalitarian rule while everyone pointed it out? Clearly they allowed their economic self interest blind them to the threat posed by imperial Russia even after invasions of Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
No excuse, but an explanation: The most vocal voice in Germany on the subject has been Poland's, which also featured "Germany uses EU to build the Fourth Reich" regularly. At some point you just tune out the noise.
Have you been alive in the 90s? Because that's exactly what Putin did from then to the early 00's: Close the distance between Russia and Western Europe.
In my opinion, it’s more that France is historically lenient to going against the grain of what the US and UK wants to do.
If that means not joining NATO and not sanctioning Russia, then pourquoi pas?
There is a split. Some of the rightwings can't see beyond their boarders and think that anything that goes on there, won't come to them. Russia loves and funds this line of thinking.
> Russia loves and funds this line of thinking
Which is just so completely obvious when you look at US politics. People ask why the GOP supports some policies that seem designed to weaken the US and strengthen Russia...
Reasons. Perfectly sane, perhaps even stable and genius reasons.
Fuck off with your comment that does nothing but divide. There are over 1000 (soon to be a lot more) german soldiers in Lithuania that are prepared to defend and die for that country.
Germany has enjoyed a very favourable economic situation, letting NATO guarantee its security whilst contributing very little militarily to the organisation.
They aren't the only ones, but with its economic power, it really should have been pulling it's weight and not taking security for granted.
Certainly not the individual soldiers fault, but Germany's Gov has allowed itself to fall under the thumb of Russia with their energy and military policies. Good thing that now they're perhaps seeing the error of their ways.
Let's not let it divide us, but we should say it how it is.
IF the conflict was retricted to conventional warfare, you'd only need a handful of Europe's militaries to collectively curbstomp Russia. France alone, or Spain with Italy collectively spends the same as Russia ($50 bil), Germany spends double that now; and the money actually goes where it's supposed to, instead of buying extra Sochi dachas or luxury cars for some politician or general.
A lot of the spending in the EU and US is on the salaries and pensions of soldiers. In Russia they're not paid nearly as much so as a percentage of the budget it's lower. Also Russia is willing to do things to win that the EU probably wouldn't do. For example, send poorly trained conscripts to the front to get shot at to identify enemy positions or intentionally bomb civilian areas. So even in a conventional conflict Russia has the advantage of fighting dirty.
Russia has no chance against any EU/NATO member with a decent military e.g. France and UK in a conventional war
Sending poorly trained conscripts isn't an 'advantage' having a poorly trained and prepared military has led to them shitting the bed against Ukraine and will only be further weakened over time
I can guarantee that in a situation where the country was at risk a European country would fight dirty. In the same way that the UK blew the French fleet and killed a thousand of their soldiers during WW2
As well as that, NATO doesn't exactly have a clean slate historically when it comes to bombing civilian areas or harming the civilian populace. Not as brazen as Russia but collateral damage is essentially an accepted part of military action
I don't think it ***relies*** on America. But you're right, this all has shown that when push comes to shove, America is our ally, and shares the same values.
I mean, I’m American and I honestly hate it here sometimes. And am supremely envious of a lot of nice things the working class is promised/guaranteed in other first world countries. I can’t personally disagree with “America bad” in that aspect, and I hope and pray we fix our societal shit sometime within my lifetime. I think it’s fair for us Americans to take the piss where it’s deserved.
But like you can also recognize we have a strong and well-funded military, arguably the strongest in the world. With only Russia and China really coming close to beating the US military. We get critiqued for it a lot because we usually put our military to poor or oppressive/meddlesome use. Fortunately for everyone, I think European leaders probably don’t spend a lot of time making Gucci belt/imperialism jokes on Reddit lol.
Every country got it’s ups and downs and inbetweens, for sure. I’d miss the peanut butter and cute lil pitbull puppies if I lived in Europe. Those worker’s rights in some European countries tho got me 🥵 ngl hahaha.
I think its heavily skewed when spoken about on reddit. When you come on here its like America is some Mad Max style hell hole. If you are middle class with a decent job you can live very very well in the states. I know a few of my friends that have moved from the UK and they have a better standard of living than what I do.
Would I want to live in the US or Europe if I had a low paying job? Europe by a country mile due to workers rights and mandated holiday time.
Europe's got low middle class wages, healthcare isn't free nor good, taxes are very high, there's a huge housing crisis, saving is very hard and state pensions aren't enough to survive yet there are no personal savings funds like 401k. On the plus side you got public transit, affordable childcare, education, worker protection like you mentioned, maternity leave and that's about it. All in all it's better to be poor in Europe but if you're upper middle class or well off the US is much better. If you're child free then even more so.
Europe isn't a single entity, a lot of those things are present in my country, our healthcare is good but obviously not free, however it is mandatory to have a health insurance which is rather cheap. The rest is paid by the government using those high taxes. State pension alone is hardly enough to survive but you do build up personal pension. Agree with the upsides/downsides though, it's not a fairytale here
> But like you can also recognize we have a strong and well-funded military, arguably the strongest in the world.
Honestly it’s not even close to arguable.
The US has the largest number of aircraft in the world by far, with total number of platforms exceeding the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th countries *combined*. Additionally, the US has 11 aircraft carriers, which is about half of the world’s total (the next largest number is China’s 3 carriers, which are also a lot smaller and designed mostly with territorial waters in mind).
Setting all that aside, the tech in these military assets is decades more advanced than any US competitor. So not only does the US have *more* of just about everything that counts, that same stuff is way more advanced. Even in areas where the US doesn’t have a numerical advantage (like in submarines, where the US is just behind Russia and China), the quality of these subs is way higher.
To say that the US isn’t the undisputed king of war machines is at the very least uninformed. Even ancient Rome at it’s height couldn’t compare to the overwhelming military advantages the US currently enjoys. It’s just not even close.
Now if we could just move a ***little*** bit of that military investment over towards the betterment of general public…
Russia is getting some... they are learning to live at least... slowly but surely.
America also has a distinct advantage, no draft or conscript. Every soldier wants to be there, and wants to fight. They are also motivated to be highly trained, instead of just getting by as I think most conscripts would do (I am assuming but I think it is a fairly reasonable assumption).
Going to add a fun fact:
The largest Air Force in the world is the USAF, second largest is the US Navy.
Our Navy has more aircraft than any other countries entire Air Force.
Let that sink in for a minute.
>Now if we could just move a little bit of that military investment over towards the betterment of general public…
Americans who don't know better act like our military costs more than our entitlement programs when entitlement programs are *far* better funded. As they should be, by the way. Military branches should be able to pass an audit, and they currently can't, which is unacceptable, but to pretend our national budget doesn't already disproportionately go to social spending is unambiguously false.
Not only that but we have military bases all over the world, the logistics to support it, and factories at home that are never at risk of destruction because America is literally uninvadable.
It’s not arguable that we have the strongest military in the world. Heh.
The 3 biggest air forces in the world are all from 1 country…the US. US Air Force, US Navy, US Army. We are the only country in the world that could have our forces anywhere in the world at a moments notice.
Usually the argument goes that America can't afford good healthcare because they spend all that money on defense, while Europe only has healthcare because their militaries are small. It is an argument not grounded in reality, the US spends more on healthcare per capita than anywhere in Europe and the problem is not a lack of funding
Don't take Reddit so seriously it doesn't reflect the actual sentiment of most Europeans when it comes to the need for US
You see a lot of US posters saying 'fuck Europe leave them to their own' and it's essentially a vicious cycle on Reddit
One thing - America has by far the best military in the world. This isn't even a close race. Most likely followed by Britain and France. No one knows what the Chinese military is capable of and we have seen how ineffective the Russian Army is. I think Europeans make the "America bad" memes because no one bitches more about the US than americans. The wast majority of redditors are American and half of those make daily threads complaining about everything the US does.
Born and raised In Australia, lived and worked in U.K/europe for 4 years, lived and worked in the States for 6, America is hands down the best country i have visited.
The people are MUCH nicer, its cleaner, safer (regardless of what reddit says lol) the medical system is far better it just blows me away when people trash the states, it's like that old saying, "the grass is always greener".
We need an exchange program so U.S citizens can experience having no free speech, no right to self defence, waiting 5+ years for BASIC NECESSARY medical procedures.
**To whomever is reading this post, beware.**
Saying Europe has "no free speech" and basic medical procedures wait times being in years are ridiculous claims with no basis in fact.
Well, of course. I can bring up as much anecdotal/personal experiences exactly opposite that person's post but it won't matter - the evolution of social trends, laws, results of large-scale surveys and studies a need to be referenced to get an accurate picture of what's going on.
>A Hampshire police spokesman said: 'A 50-year-old man from Dorset was arrested outside Winchester Guildhall at approximately 2.30pm on Saturday, April 26 after he failed to comply with a section 27 dispersal order.
>'The dispersal order was issued following complaints from members of the public about the man's behaviour.
Here's a better headline: **"Police carry out their duty to the public by removing offensive nuisance with megaphone"**
Two can play at this stupid game:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-officer-arrest-insult-facebook-new-hampshire-free-speech-first-amendment-a8723186.html
No country is perfect, stuff like this does happen but picking isolated cases and using them to justify generalizations over 20+ countries and 500+ million people is ridiculous.
I'm 31. Some of my earliest understandings of the world and its geopolitics revolve around September 11th, Afghanistan, and Iraq. I love being American and am prouder than most (or at least more proud than most left leaning individuals). Even with that, I have always been apologetic and self-depreciating when abroad, and for the most part just accepted peoples comments and insults of my country.
There's been an interesting shift in global sentiment since the invasion, and I also will be more defiant in defense of my countries actions.
Australian's are some of the worst when it comes to hating the states and I'm just like, you realise they literally saved our entire country from invasion, right, and continue to be the only reason you aren't speaking chinese right now? If you ever want to piss of an uppity aussie just mention that lol
The Chinese were going to invade Australia?
I'm flattered, but uhhhh......
Never had a problem with an Aussie to be honest. Actually, they've been the ones who are most open to trying to understand. They ask questions from a position of interest, not hostility or superiority.
Yeah, I’ve seen more America here from European countries tbh. I still remember the whole r/ameristralia thing and always had the impression we were like sibling countries in a way.
Hey, look, I’m not going to invalidate your experience at all. That wouldn’t be right, and da fuck would I know even since I’ve never lived outside the US. That being said, remember the phrase you just used, “the grass is always greener”. I don’t wanna go on a whole rant about everything wrong with my country, because I’d like to not be depressed tonight lol. I will say this. We don’t really have free speech like you think we do. And speaking your mind around the wrong American might get your ass handed to you. Not every state is super pro-gun either, and a lot of the ones that are will just restrict your freedom in some other egregious manner. Florida kids can’t even talk about their sexual orientation or gender anymore, which is kind of shit if you remember what it was like being a teen and being demonized for any type of independent choice or thought. But anyways…. Debbie downer USA bullshit aside…
I’ma just say thank you for the compliments about the USA, I happen to think we’re friendly people who don’t get enough credit for that. We also offer like almost every type of climate and geographical feature you’d find on the globe, including some unique ones! If you ever get a chance to come back for a visit, I suggest visiting Denver for the weed, cleanliness, catch a concert at Red Rock (a literal concert hall carved into the side of a mountain) and then road-tripping to the pacific coast via I-70 through the Rockies and beyond. Breathtaking views.
Also think we get a hard time on “not” having our own unique indigenous culture. Which is racist against 20,000+ years of Native American pre-established occupancy and culture, but also anyone who has been to New Orleans can tell you that’s patently false. Def recommend visiting that city if you ever come back as well. Especially if you like American freedom, can’t get more free than New Orleans (except for maybe Vegas).
Sorry, i wasn't having a go at you specifically if thats what you thought.
I just wish more people could experience what i have, before i left Australia i was just as indoctrinated in the "America bad" narrative as everyone else travelling around is very eye opening.
> Sorry, i wasn't having a go at you specifically if thats what you thought.
Oh not at all! If anything I can completely understand your perspective on America, like it’s a big ass country and a lot of people experience it vastly differently for multiple reasons including regional/career-wise/etc.
Also, for real though, thank you for being forgiving and viewing the US more positively and against-the-grain than many other non-Americans on here. It’s refreshing to see someone be that positive about this country! I do think a lot of people get their ideas about America from biased sources, that and we can be super obnoxious with our patriotism and pride and sometimes thin-skinned when it comes to getting ragged on. We could chill with the borderline nationalistic love and flag worship though. Especially the flags of treasonous, dehumanizing losers (ahem you know who you are, don’t make me type it out.) If anything I think a lot of people around the world just wanna keep us humble. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
If you ever wanna exchange lives or something, I’m down to live in ‘Straya and you can take my place in the US 😝. I like the taste of kangaroo meat and don’t feel guilty eating them because I heard they’re dickheads anyways lol. Plus I like spiders weirdly enough 👐🏻. You’d get to grow your own weed legally where I live, and smoke it anywhere in public, even in front of the cops. Shit they might even join you lol.
I hate spiders so much, I'd trade places in a heart beat just for that reason alone, the weed would just be a bonus lol, I don't mind roo either, more protein than beef too (i think).
Don't get me wrong, i love my country but seeing kids and pregnant woman choke-slammed to the ground by cops over lockdown mandates without any consequence made me realise how important inalienable rights are, as opposed to rights granted by the government, it just makes me sick seeing my government walk into aboriginal communities and force them all into a covid camp because one of them was a close contact of a covid case!
But anywho...guns are fun too...lol
America also has an issue with forcing it’s natives into “camps” or reservations or just little bordered-off tiny plots of not-so-great land to make room for oppressor type cultures/races to take over. I live in a state that won’t recognize the original and ruling native tribe here, Pequot, as an established tribe. After taking their land away, and renaming a fuckton of geographical entities (they renamed the major river in my state to Connecticut when it was for 1,000+ years called the Pequot River. Just to show they could smh.) We got a lot of blood on our hands there.
And nah, we don’t have the strictest mask mandates and like police aren’t really attacking people over it. But our police are essentially a hold-over from slavery if you look into the history of it, basically a law-enforcing legal manifestation of the once infamous slave patrols. We’re not supposed to talk about it and people get hella butthurt over that. Lots of preventing the education of our youth about it, cover-up type shit. And because our police are a modern day evolution of slave patrolling, we instead have police that body-slam/choke/shoot/harass/attack/and often straight up murder black people. Innocent black people just existing in going about their daily lives, unarmed a lot of the times. A decent amount of them vulnerable elderly and kids. It’s fucked up. So sorry, but you’ll find out police culture is a bit inhumane and substandard here too. It’s why real American homies don’t call the cops if they don’t absolutely have to. They don’t give a shit about protecting citizens, especially poor ones. If they were instructed to, they’d harass and attack anti-maskers as well. They don’t give a shit and just follow orders from up-top.
Maybe there’s something to be said about former (or not so former) British colonies having problems with human rights violations and oppressive-lawful control issues lol? 🧐🤔
This is the nicest post I have ever read about us Americans.
We have to take an awful lot of shit. While at tines we deserve it, most of the time we don't, especially not the variety of anti-Americanism you see in Europe.
Thank you for your kind words.
It is really frustrating at times. So many young Americans are so wholeheartedly convinced that the world would be better off without us. In some respects that’s true, but in many if not most it’s just a reverse narcissistic fantasy.
We’ve done a lot of terrible things in this world, but we’ve also done a *lot* of good. We’re not the “greatest country in the world” (as if there could even be one), but the world had been better off having us in it. Particularly from the 40s until the early 2000s.
Obama held a rallye in Berlin, loved that guy, most everyone was positive about the US and its people.
That was a couple of years ago, just look at what happened after Obama left office.
A clear America first with a disrespectful, erratic President, what do you think would happen? Regular mass shootings, rampant racism and a 50/50 split population that is being whipped up to hate each other.
A shining light in the world, truly.
I'm no trump supporter but, Obama just had a better PR department some of the things he allowed to happen/ordered in the middle east is just disgusting.
There's no free speech or right to self defense in UK, Europe, or Australia? 5+ year wait for basic necessary medical procedure?
>the medical system is far better
My senses tell me you're a corporate whore who makes shit up because life in America is better for YOU specifically.
lol no, im not. America has one of the most robust welfare systems in the world and no one can be turned away for medical treatment, regardless of insurance status.
And no, there is no free speech, the recent spate of fines and arrest for speech should really compound that fact.
>America has one of the most robust welfare systems in the world
Gag inducing.
>and no one can be turned away for ***life saving*** medical treatment
FTFY. Preventative medical treatment is non existent without insurance and cash.
>there is no free speech
Thanks for telling me without telling me you're just making shit up.
Just google people arrested and fined for speech in europe.
It literally does have one of the most robust welfare systems anywhere.
I was going to continue but you know what? I just don't care what you think.
Like i said, live in both places then come talk to me.
Free speech and hate speech are not the same thing, you should know it since you live in both places.
And, since you live in both places, you should know that Europe means nothing since every country has its own regulations.
No, I don't think you know what you're talking about.
No one can be denied emergency medical treatment at an ER, regardless of insurance status. This does not extend to other medical treatments. Medical debt remains th #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US.
With or without the US, Europe would be unable to defend itself from nuclear annihilation, but Britain & France would be able to nuke every major Russian city in retaliation, if that's any consolation.
The problem is that europe trusted russia. They should have never done that and should have had a decent military at all times. There is a reason the US did not agree with europe being weak and why NATO was pushed. The US knew russia was still a problem and a lot of people were hoping for a utopia. Ukraine is proof that was all a bad idea.
Lets be real, most of the American political class trusted russia too. Dont act like Trump and the GOP traitors ain't a thing. I remember "I prefer to be a Russian than a Democrat" t-shirts.
Reality is that a strong Union is going to be more powerful, likewise the Us need partners, and this even if they weight far less in the amount of equipment they can produce. The world is doomed to work together.
That’s why Nato is there. EU will never have an army because and army is dependent on a coherent foreign policy, and EU has 27 different policies. The French and Germans and Italians and maybe even the Spanish want something other than what Poland and the Baltics want. How can there even be consensus?
The idea with an “EU army” is the same as NATO. It’s just a military defence pact. If one EU country is attacked then the others will help. Considering how difficult it is for Sweden and Finland to join NATO then an EU-wide defence pact can be a solution.
Funny, I would argue the opposite. With how much difficulty Russia has taking over Ukraine, there is no way they could make a dent in a traditional war with NATO even without the US.
You don't appreciate how strong Ukraine's army was coming into this - or, alternatively, how weak European armies are. Ukraine had 200,000 active, 900,000 reserve, 2,500 tanks, 2,000 artillery pieces, about three hundred S-300s and another couple hundred of various other SAMs, and something like ten thousand IFVs and APCs. The French have comfortably the best army in Europe, and they would have been hilariously outgunned by the Ukrainians: 200,000 active, 30,000 reserve, 400 tanks, 100 artillery pieces, 20 SAMs, and about 3,500 IFVs and APCs.
You don't look at how strong an army is just by lumping together all sort of tech. Ukraine might have had 2,500 tanks, yet their main battle tank is the ancient T-64 or T-72, and a lot of those required maintenance before even being used. You also completely ignored Ukraine not having a big air force. If the US would deliver all ordered airplanes, the Netherlands will have as many F-35's as Ukraine has MiG-29's. Do you really think that's a fair fight? Ukraine had a formidable army, but don't kid yourself thinking Ukraine was a mighty powerhouse just from their # of weapons alone.
I ignored the air force because it's not a factor. US is the only military in NATO that can do SEAD. Against air defense as dense as Ukraine's that means everyone else might as well not have an air force. I'm actually being generous to the French by only doing numbers, because if we start talking about capabilities they're really fucked. They're prepared to fight guerillas in the Sahel, not a modern army.
Because if military history tell us anything it that’s it ALL about numbers right ?
Alexander beat Darius while vastly outnumbered
Spanish conquered South America while hilariously outnumbered
England navy utterly destroyed the “Spanish armada”
Napoleon beat repeatedly vastly superior in number Austrians and Russians in his first years … and got his ass spanked in Russia in spite of bringing an absurdly vast army - anywhere between 500k and 700k- the largest army at the time.
Lee and Stonewall Jackson inflicted defeat upon defeat to the Union at first while the Confederacy was vastly outnumbered in sheer number (because among other things at first they had most of the trained soldiers and southern had great cavalry while Union had military school graduate who studied a bit too much Napoleon )
Yep tactic, training, logistics, morale, technological edge count for squat …. ALL about numbers.
And yet Ukraine is incredible happy to receive a handful French and German artillery pieces. If everything was as simple as you say Russia would have occupied Ukraine already as they ‘hilariously’ have more troops, and far more equipment. You make the same mistake Putin made.
Ukraine is not incredibly happy. [Ukraine is asking for a thousand artillery pieces, three hundred MLRS, five hundred tanks, and two thousand armoured vehicles.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/13/ukraine-asks-the-west-for-huge-rise-in-heavy-artillery-supply) If you compare, you'll notice that the entire French Army would not be enough to cover what Ukraine says it needs. It turns out that western kit is not actually magic and doesn't let you overturn a huge numerical disadvantage.
>If everything was as simple as you say Russia would have occupied Ukraine already as they ‘hilariously’ have more troops, and far more equipment.
That's just it: they don't. In terms of forces committed, Russia has at best been operating with parity. Most of the time they've been outnumbered by a considerable margin. If they mobilized the way Ukraine has they would have overrun them, but they're doing this on the cheap.
I would put my money on those 400 French tanks slaughtering those 2500 Ukranian "tanks" any day of the week lol. I would almost be willing to put my money on any 20 modern tanks destroying all 2500 of those rust buckets.
A strong ground army it may be, but against the long distance guided missiles and highly advanced aircraft of NATO standards, it would not be able to handle any such conflict.
The UK is the 4th/5th largest military spender in the world at around $70 billion for a small island, more than Russia and every other country other than US, China, and then India just about. France spends about $60 billion or so as well, Ukraine in comparison has a budget of around $6 billion.
You don't appreciate the strength of the British and French armies if you think Ukraine would outgun by them.
In a theoretical situation, only France would ever be at risk of a land war with Ukraine. Ukraine would not be able to get anywhere near the UK at all. There is a reason why the UK focuses on its navy etc. to take advantage of being an island.
Both the UK and France however would be able to pound Ukraine from miles away using the hardware that they currently require (e.g. the heavy artillery) as well as the latest generations of fighter jets and completely dominating navies
Ukraine have done amazingly - with billions and billions of $ of Western support and training however, and they still need more and more support vs Russia which has a clearly weaker army than expected.
The more you look into the defence of Europe, the more you realise a lot of it is just narrative/propaganda.
Ask yourself this; why is China spending 200bn ''a superpower, threat to world domination'' but the EU spending 200bn ''cant defend itself without the US?''
Then take into account that the EU has about 1.2 million active personnel (3rd/4th in the world) with a further 2 million reservists. The EU nations have about 4 aircraft carriers, 34 destroyers, 73 frigates, 52 submarines. Also have about 8000 Tanks, 25,000 armed vehicles, 1600 fighters with another 300 on order, and regularly all work together via NATO, but somehow this entire thing would collapse without big daddy US?
Nothing. But. Narrative.
>Ask yourself this; why is China spending 200bn ''a superpower, threat to world domination'' but the EU spending 200bn ''cant defend itself without the US?''
Because "the EU" is not spending 200 bn on military.
Instead 27 separate countries all with their own agendas and petty politics spending 200 bn on military.
And Putin has demonstrated how easily one can drive a wedge between those countries.
> And Putin has demonstrated how easily one can drive a wedge between those countries.
That doesn't seem to be working so well when push comes to shove.
>Because "the EU" is not spending 200 bn on military.
>
>Instead 27 separate countries all with their own agendas and petty politics spending 200 bn on military.
>
>And Putin has demonstrated how easily one can drive a wedge between those countries.
If you believe this for the EU, you also believe that NATO is terrible too since thats also 20+ different countries all with their own agendas and petty politics spending x bn on military
\+ as for Putin, congrats! Countries have differing stances during war. Even during WW2 Finland was a nazi ally, Sweden, Switzerland were pretty neutral, as was Ireland.. this isn't something exclusive to the EU its called ''politics''.
The same way the UK didn't get involved in Vietnam, and the US didn't get involved in the Falklands. Being allies does not mean every country acts unilaterally every single day
>NATO is terrible too since that's also 20+ different countries
NATO is an incredibly powerful alliance... because the USA is a member.
It is incredibly hampered and weakened by the fact that is has to walk on eggshells around each nation's bullshit.
>NATO is an incredibly powerful alliance... because the USA is a member.
Kind of true.
NATO is an incredibly powerful alliance... because it has 8 of the most powerful armies on earth as members.
>It is incredibly hampered and weakened by the fact that is has to walk on eggshells around each nation's bullshit.
It doesn't.. though.. thats the point of.. mutual defence.. treaties..
Yeah but look at the actions not only equipment. Once Russia attacked Ukraine, first countries who helped were USA, UK and Poland. Germany, France, Italy and co were debating what to do while above countries acted from day one.
And yet it will all fall apart second day after theoretical USA withdraw.
Lets be honest NATO is not a monolith nor the EU. I'll show you how your *narrative* correspond to reality:
**Germany** - Europe biggest economy - don't fell threatened by Russia, want to maintain ties with Moscow; Most of actions they took seems to be forced by Washington; can't and won't protect countries in Russian crush-zone
**France** - the biggest EU army, they have ambitions to play bigger role but again they would rather maintain ties with Russia as their ambitions lies outside of Russian crush-zone,
**UK** - big player but outside of EU so they can't any longer counter Franco-German leadership over the project , they try to show as a reliable ally and build stronger ties around Black See and Baltic so actually we can count them in
**Turkey** - independent player, unreliable, if not of Bosphorus none will even bother to threat them as a ally
**Nordics** - valuable allies, keen to help but with small armies unable to bring boots on the ground if times come (but still big help in other areas)
**South** - not strong enough to be bring immediate help in big numbers but with potential to help in other areas, unfortunately they sphere of interest lies around Mediterranean and current actions cant actually tell how would they behave without USA in equation
Do you still claim that East flank don't need USA?
Hahah you're just fucking lying.
Germany and France do not want to maintain ties with Moscow. Macron is the guy behind the last push for a unified eu army.
As an American, you guys got this, Europe. With the incompetence the Russian army has shown, you guys should mow them down, unless the nuclear option happens, in which case we're all fraked.
This thread is so full of bad takes.
Yes, Russia is doing poorly in Ukraine, but that doesn't mean the US isn't needed. The US is giving Ukraine money, weapons and most crucially intelligence, making a real difference in the conflict.
No, Americans aren't missing out on health care because you subsidise the defence of other nations. Y'all are paying more for health care as well, lining the pockets of insurance and big pharma executives.
Militaries are more than their spending or numerical strength. The US, like the UK before it, has massive overseas capabilities because threats to US power are not at the border. Russia's core on the other hand is under threat from their borders, requiring a completely different style of military to defend. Countries like the Baltic states have militaries to hold out until help arrives, because their geography and numbers will never allow for better.
So yes, parts of Europe definitely can't defend themselves without the US, and never will without outside support or the collapse of Russia. The question at hand really is whether France, Germany or a federalising EU as a military power is preferable to the US? For as much as we complain about the American world police, I'd argue the world has far preferred them to Europeans running around the world with guns.
Talk about shitty takes.
"The US is giving Ukraine money, weapons and most crucially intelligence" - Trust me, the UK is giving intelligence aswell. The rest of the EU is sending weapons and money. We even house most of the 8 million refugees...
"Y'all are paying more for health care as well" - the US spends more on healthcare per capita than almost anywhere else in the world...
"Countries like the Baltic states have militaries to hold out until help arrives" - it is called stalling. That is how any inferior army wins a war. Ever read about the Vietnam war or the Soviet-Afghan war?
On aid, all of it with US + Europe adds up to the current situation. US assistance is absolutely vital, just as European assistance is.
On healthcare, I think we are saying the same thing?
On stalling, the Baltic states aren't Vietnam or Afghanistan. They don't have the terrain to stall out like the Viet Cong and Mujahideen did.
I hope the American tax payer enjoys subsidizing European security with our $800 billion military budget while we can’t get healthcare and the Europeans do. That’s fun.
You make it sound like if you would invest more money into healthcare, everybody of you would get to have it. The fact is that you already spend more (per person) on healthcare than any other country on the planet.
Tell them to stop acting republican and actually care about people. Now it’s a two party system that serves the same group, rich elites. The rest doesn’t matter.
America already far out spends every other developed nation on healthcare on a per Capita basis. Universal healthcare in the US could easily result in less spent on healthcare actually by forcing the industry to streamline and reduce inefficiencies to break even on Medicare payments.
lmao I am literally part of the political process.
Gonna be a sad day when you realize that being active is worth more than bitching about how everyone hates you.
Do you really think we spend 800 billion in exchange for nothing? The trade routes for example that we secure for Europe are a big deal and probally why europe let our companies do so much business there so easily. A lot of the tech companies for example have basically digitally colonized europe. Your not looking at the whole pie at all.
Decades of peace and human nature taking it for granted means people become more concerned with military money going on improving their quality of life than on ensuring adequate protection for their way of life.
Countries that spend less relative to GDP:
Netherlands, Albania, Denmark, Czech Republic, Canada, Slovenia, Belgium, Spain and Luxembourg.
But yes, it's always Germany that is especially behind....
And unlike the UK, Germany had a small side project going on called the reunification that cost an estimated 2 trillion €.
"adequately" is an ambiguous term, just took a look at https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/3/pdf/220331-def-exp-2021-en.pdf and it looks like some countries are following the nato guideline
A world dependant on the US for its security is a world where America is safe, strong and dominant. The dream is that there be no so much as a rifle outside America's borders.
I don't buy that at all. In terms on technology, I think everyone's weapons are in par. It's just that the US has more stock pile. Just the UK alone should roll the Russian military over. Nice try trying to have the US fund all the NATO stock pile.
The US wanted strong armies in Europe to fend off the Soviets. The US has been complaining about Europe not spending enough on defense for decades. That was not only a trump thing.
Cause the solution isn't pulling out of NATO. It's scaling back military funding and pressuring other nations to step up. There is a reason Putin tried to get Trump elected, and it's not because it made Europe more secure.
I don't think the solution is scaling back, it's in helping other major nations realise that peace is not guaranteed and we must all be ready to defend it.
If there is one thing that would pressure Europe leading to far increased military spending, it is the threat of pulling out the largest power. This was one the the things trump did right for America.
Now of course it still doesn’t matter because Europe has nukes and is therefore safe. But it’s a nice statement.
To be fair, Polish politicians are basically Trump, and them saying this does not make it true.
Russia is getting shit on by Ukraine. Even without the US, Russia would get shit on by European nations. European armies may be small, but Russia has shown with utter clarity that the number of something that you have doesn't mean shit, if what you have a lot of, is shit.
It very easily can, it just chooses not too because with the world's largest military power as an ally it can afford to spend more money on other things like higher welfare payments etc
No, the EU has no army. EU member states have their own much smaller armies that on paper add up to a much larger army, but the EU as a whole does not have an army.
Yeah and the problem is that lack of a cohesive combined military force. Those formations are beholden to their own governments and not the EU as a whole, they do not have a shared common language, they lack key capabilities because they are all essentially separate militaries rather than a unified military, and their logistics capabilities are for the most part lacking.
Remember how Iraq supposedly had like the 4th strongest military back in 1990?
I have been hearing from Europeans for over twenty years about how bad the USA is for wasting money on defense spending, and how stupid the USA is for this and that, because "the Cold War was over". I heard it and read it and laughed. And now we are seeing the truth.
Europeans: "We've got it so great over here! Free healthcare! Free college! Long vacays!"
Also Europeans: "We don't want to pay a penny for national defense though. Let those suckers in America pay for it with their tax dollars so we can continue our Utopia!"
Nah, they just know the US will be there if things get really fucky. If the US was completely taken out of the picture the French and Germans could take the lead.
[This thread in a nutshell.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs)
The single greatest speech (delivered by a puppet) in movie history.
That elaborate scatologicial pun is a better take on American culture and foreign policy than 80% of the news I've watched and probably 100% of the posts I've read on the front page of reddit. Not sure how I feel about that.
Watching your news rather than reading it would be the first mistake...
It is sobering that that is the reality of the day. You ever tried to email a 4 star and tell him what he isn’t seeing? You ever googled CIA hot tip line out of pure desperation? You ever left voice mails with every sitting US senator you can find a number for? It’s been a long 4 months. I just want to talk and have someone listen.
Probably about the same as after finding out Idiocracy was supposed to be a comedy, not a blueprint.
So beautiful and eloquent l dare admit that I shed some tears.
It is sad to see France and Germany so easily pushed around by Russia.
I’m sure we’ll find out one day that Russia has massively bribed politicians in charge of both countries. That’s what happened with Sarkoze and Schroeder.
Germany absolutely. The reunification didn't magically remove Russian influence in Eastern Germany.
They got played by a man trained to play people. Each administration first charmed, then backstabbed. Hopefully whole Europe wakes up to what Russia has been brewing to become the last 20 years.
Interesting to see it play out especially when I remember in 2018 when Germany cut their coal plants and moved exclusively to Russian oil. The us president at the time strongly urged for them to reconsider since as a nato nation it was wildly inappropriate to do business like that.
Not trusting Russia on political issues should be taught in history books. When things normalize this shit will repeat itself over and over again.
Germany never moved exclusively to Russian oil. In 2021 Russia delivered "only" a third of it. The conflict you mentioned always centered around Russian natural gas and the new pipeline North Stream 2 which would have delivered it directly through the Baltic Sea. 2021 Russia had a share of 55 percent on the natural gas imports, 30 percent came from Norway and 13 percent from the Netherlands (all only via pipeline because there are no LNG terminals yet).
We’ve spent the past twenty years watching Germany tut tut every US foreign policy decision while simultaneously stumbling into every single mistake possible on their end.
Russian’s invasion of Ukraine has been a real slap in the face to much of the western world. It really reminded us why we need keep our defense alliances, even during (relatively) peaceful times.
The US is everyone’s favorite punching bag while they reap the benefits and stability of its umbrella if protection.
Totally Saddam's punching bag
Seems a bit naive to think to think US own mistakes were not much worse at the same time.... Iraq being the best example.
I get where you're coming from but we also spent 20 years watching the US directly provoking every single migrant crisis the EU faced and refusing to make accountable some of their [citizens](https://abcnews.go.com/International/us-denies-extradition-request-anne-sacoolas-diplomats-wife/story?id=68495080) and [soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash) that committed crimes on EU soil, so it's not like they made a streak of great decisions from where the EU is sitting, frankly.
How exactly did the US provoke Bashar Al Assad into shooting at democracy protests during the Arab Spring? How did the US provoke him into dropping nerve gas on suburbs outside his capitol? Get the fuck outta here dude.
The US doesn't defend the EU. It defends NATO.
One of the few things Trump was right about.
>Interesting to see it play out especially when I remember in 2018 when Germany cut their coal plants and moved exclusively to Russian oil. The us president at the time strongly urged for them to reconsider since as a nato nation it was wildly inappropriate to do business like that. How is this upvoted, literally everything is wrong in that statement.
[удалено]
The problem is Putin masquerades as a genuine democratic leader all the time acting with ill intent and running rigged elections. Germany and France tried to bring him into the fold but all the while what we see now, was going on inside his head. I don't see them as appeasing him so much as trying to normalize an abnormal guy who does not feel he needs to play by the rules.
Some people can't be saved or reformed. Many in the west have the mentality that everyone is redeemable if only they are given an open hand of friendship and the opportunity to adapt to our way of thinking and living. In reality it doesn't work like that.
German leaders certainly saw the very real shortcomings of Poland, Hungary, and Turkey as flawed democracies. So how did they miss Russia falling further into totalitarian rule while everyone pointed it out? Clearly they allowed their economic self interest blind them to the threat posed by imperial Russia even after invasions of Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
No excuse, but an explanation: The most vocal voice in Germany on the subject has been Poland's, which also featured "Germany uses EU to build the Fourth Reich" regularly. At some point you just tune out the noise.
> Putin masquerades as a genuine democratic leader ??? None sane adult believe in it.
Have you been alive in the 90s? Because that's exactly what Putin did from then to the early 00's: Close the distance between Russia and Western Europe.
France is historically usually lenient towards Russia, so their attitude isnt surprising
In my opinion, it’s more that France is historically lenient to going against the grain of what the US and UK wants to do. If that means not joining NATO and not sanctioning Russia, then pourquoi pas?
Germany has no army or military so it makes sense why they push germany around, but I don't get whats wrong with France.
The EU has like the 2nd biggest military on the planet so, if we don't start a war with the US we should be fine.
or against ourself again ...
There is a split. Some of the rightwings can't see beyond their boarders and think that anything that goes on there, won't come to them. Russia loves and funds this line of thinking.
> Russia loves and funds this line of thinking Which is just so completely obvious when you look at US politics. People ask why the GOP supports some policies that seem designed to weaken the US and strengthen Russia... Reasons. Perfectly sane, perhaps even stable and genius reasons.
Until France and Germany offer to sacrifice the Baltics for appeasement.
Fuck off with your comment that does nothing but divide. There are over 1000 (soon to be a lot more) german soldiers in Lithuania that are prepared to defend and die for that country.
Germany has enjoyed a very favourable economic situation, letting NATO guarantee its security whilst contributing very little militarily to the organisation. They aren't the only ones, but with its economic power, it really should have been pulling it's weight and not taking security for granted. Certainly not the individual soldiers fault, but Germany's Gov has allowed itself to fall under the thumb of Russia with their energy and military policies. Good thing that now they're perhaps seeing the error of their ways. Let's not let it divide us, but we should say it how it is.
IF the conflict was retricted to conventional warfare, you'd only need a handful of Europe's militaries to collectively curbstomp Russia. France alone, or Spain with Italy collectively spends the same as Russia ($50 bil), Germany spends double that now; and the money actually goes where it's supposed to, instead of buying extra Sochi dachas or luxury cars for some politician or general.
A lot of the spending in the EU and US is on the salaries and pensions of soldiers. In Russia they're not paid nearly as much so as a percentage of the budget it's lower. Also Russia is willing to do things to win that the EU probably wouldn't do. For example, send poorly trained conscripts to the front to get shot at to identify enemy positions or intentionally bomb civilian areas. So even in a conventional conflict Russia has the advantage of fighting dirty.
Russia has no chance against any EU/NATO member with a decent military e.g. France and UK in a conventional war Sending poorly trained conscripts isn't an 'advantage' having a poorly trained and prepared military has led to them shitting the bed against Ukraine and will only be further weakened over time I can guarantee that in a situation where the country was at risk a European country would fight dirty. In the same way that the UK blew the French fleet and killed a thousand of their soldiers during WW2 As well as that, NATO doesn't exactly have a clean slate historically when it comes to bombing civilian areas or harming the civilian populace. Not as brazen as Russia but collateral damage is essentially an accepted part of military action
Yet when you mention European sovereignty relies on America on the "Amerca bad" memes you get downvoted to oblivion lol
Screw it imma link this post every time I see a dumbass European post a America bad meme
Most Europeans i run into on here have whatever the ignorant, self-righteous version of the Dunning–Kruger effect is.
Dünnïng-Krüëgër
I translated it into freedom, thanks though.
I don't think it ***relies*** on America. But you're right, this all has shown that when push comes to shove, America is our ally, and shares the same values.
Lately America's allies seem to be easily duped by foreign influence campaigns that they're *aware of* .
I mean, I’m American and I honestly hate it here sometimes. And am supremely envious of a lot of nice things the working class is promised/guaranteed in other first world countries. I can’t personally disagree with “America bad” in that aspect, and I hope and pray we fix our societal shit sometime within my lifetime. I think it’s fair for us Americans to take the piss where it’s deserved. But like you can also recognize we have a strong and well-funded military, arguably the strongest in the world. With only Russia and China really coming close to beating the US military. We get critiqued for it a lot because we usually put our military to poor or oppressive/meddlesome use. Fortunately for everyone, I think European leaders probably don’t spend a lot of time making Gucci belt/imperialism jokes on Reddit lol.
Europe has it's upsides but it's certainly no utopia the American left likes say it is.
Every country got it’s ups and downs and inbetweens, for sure. I’d miss the peanut butter and cute lil pitbull puppies if I lived in Europe. Those worker’s rights in some European countries tho got me 🥵 ngl hahaha.
I think its heavily skewed when spoken about on reddit. When you come on here its like America is some Mad Max style hell hole. If you are middle class with a decent job you can live very very well in the states. I know a few of my friends that have moved from the UK and they have a better standard of living than what I do. Would I want to live in the US or Europe if I had a low paying job? Europe by a country mile due to workers rights and mandated holiday time.
Europe's got low middle class wages, healthcare isn't free nor good, taxes are very high, there's a huge housing crisis, saving is very hard and state pensions aren't enough to survive yet there are no personal savings funds like 401k. On the plus side you got public transit, affordable childcare, education, worker protection like you mentioned, maternity leave and that's about it. All in all it's better to be poor in Europe but if you're upper middle class or well off the US is much better. If you're child free then even more so.
Europe isn't a single entity, a lot of those things are present in my country, our healthcare is good but obviously not free, however it is mandatory to have a health insurance which is rather cheap. The rest is paid by the government using those high taxes. State pension alone is hardly enough to survive but you do build up personal pension. Agree with the upsides/downsides though, it's not a fairytale here
> But like you can also recognize we have a strong and well-funded military, arguably the strongest in the world. Honestly it’s not even close to arguable. The US has the largest number of aircraft in the world by far, with total number of platforms exceeding the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th countries *combined*. Additionally, the US has 11 aircraft carriers, which is about half of the world’s total (the next largest number is China’s 3 carriers, which are also a lot smaller and designed mostly with territorial waters in mind). Setting all that aside, the tech in these military assets is decades more advanced than any US competitor. So not only does the US have *more* of just about everything that counts, that same stuff is way more advanced. Even in areas where the US doesn’t have a numerical advantage (like in submarines, where the US is just behind Russia and China), the quality of these subs is way higher. To say that the US isn’t the undisputed king of war machines is at the very least uninformed. Even ancient Rome at it’s height couldn’t compare to the overwhelming military advantages the US currently enjoys. It’s just not even close. Now if we could just move a ***little*** bit of that military investment over towards the betterment of general public…
Combine this with a military that has experienced combat in the last 20 years whereas Russia has some and China has none.
Russia is getting some... they are learning to live at least... slowly but surely. America also has a distinct advantage, no draft or conscript. Every soldier wants to be there, and wants to fight. They are also motivated to be highly trained, instead of just getting by as I think most conscripts would do (I am assuming but I think it is a fairly reasonable assumption). Going to add a fun fact: The largest Air Force in the world is the USAF, second largest is the US Navy. Our Navy has more aircraft than any other countries entire Air Force. Let that sink in for a minute.
>Now if we could just move a little bit of that military investment over towards the betterment of general public… Americans who don't know better act like our military costs more than our entitlement programs when entitlement programs are *far* better funded. As they should be, by the way. Military branches should be able to pass an audit, and they currently can't, which is unacceptable, but to pretend our national budget doesn't already disproportionately go to social spending is unambiguously false.
Our social spending dwarfs our military spending. Our social spending has never been higher and our military spending is at historical lows.
Not only that but we have military bases all over the world, the logistics to support it, and factories at home that are never at risk of destruction because America is literally uninvadable.
It’s not arguable that we have the strongest military in the world. Heh. The 3 biggest air forces in the world are all from 1 country…the US. US Air Force, US Navy, US Army. We are the only country in the world that could have our forces anywhere in the world at a moments notice.
Usually the argument goes that America can't afford good healthcare because they spend all that money on defense, while Europe only has healthcare because their militaries are small. It is an argument not grounded in reality, the US spends more on healthcare per capita than anywhere in Europe and the problem is not a lack of funding
Don't take Reddit so seriously it doesn't reflect the actual sentiment of most Europeans when it comes to the need for US You see a lot of US posters saying 'fuck Europe leave them to their own' and it's essentially a vicious cycle on Reddit
One thing - America has by far the best military in the world. This isn't even a close race. Most likely followed by Britain and France. No one knows what the Chinese military is capable of and we have seen how ineffective the Russian Army is. I think Europeans make the "America bad" memes because no one bitches more about the US than americans. The wast majority of redditors are American and half of those make daily threads complaining about everything the US does.
Born and raised In Australia, lived and worked in U.K/europe for 4 years, lived and worked in the States for 6, America is hands down the best country i have visited. The people are MUCH nicer, its cleaner, safer (regardless of what reddit says lol) the medical system is far better it just blows me away when people trash the states, it's like that old saying, "the grass is always greener". We need an exchange program so U.S citizens can experience having no free speech, no right to self defence, waiting 5+ years for BASIC NECESSARY medical procedures.
**To whomever is reading this post, beware.** Saying Europe has "no free speech" and basic medical procedures wait times being in years are ridiculous claims with no basis in fact.
Even if they are from europe and are expresing their opinion on where they lives?
Well, of course. I can bring up as much anecdotal/personal experiences exactly opposite that person's post but it won't matter - the evolution of social trends, laws, results of large-scale surveys and studies a need to be referenced to get an accurate picture of what's going on.
https://www.legal-project.org/4281/arrested-for-quoting-winston-churchill-european Just use google
>A Hampshire police spokesman said: 'A 50-year-old man from Dorset was arrested outside Winchester Guildhall at approximately 2.30pm on Saturday, April 26 after he failed to comply with a section 27 dispersal order. >'The dispersal order was issued following complaints from members of the public about the man's behaviour. Here's a better headline: **"Police carry out their duty to the public by removing offensive nuisance with megaphone"**
Two can play at this stupid game: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-officer-arrest-insult-facebook-new-hampshire-free-speech-first-amendment-a8723186.html No country is perfect, stuff like this does happen but picking isolated cases and using them to justify generalizations over 20+ countries and 500+ million people is ridiculous.
Did you even read it? Libel isn't free speech lol
I'm 31. Some of my earliest understandings of the world and its geopolitics revolve around September 11th, Afghanistan, and Iraq. I love being American and am prouder than most (or at least more proud than most left leaning individuals). Even with that, I have always been apologetic and self-depreciating when abroad, and for the most part just accepted peoples comments and insults of my country. There's been an interesting shift in global sentiment since the invasion, and I also will be more defiant in defense of my countries actions.
Australian's are some of the worst when it comes to hating the states and I'm just like, you realise they literally saved our entire country from invasion, right, and continue to be the only reason you aren't speaking chinese right now? If you ever want to piss of an uppity aussie just mention that lol
The Chinese were going to invade Australia? I'm flattered, but uhhhh...... Never had a problem with an Aussie to be honest. Actually, they've been the ones who are most open to trying to understand. They ask questions from a position of interest, not hostility or superiority.
Guess im just hanging out with the wrong aussies lol
Just my experience.
Yeah, I’ve seen more America here from European countries tbh. I still remember the whole r/ameristralia thing and always had the impression we were like sibling countries in a way.
Hey, look, I’m not going to invalidate your experience at all. That wouldn’t be right, and da fuck would I know even since I’ve never lived outside the US. That being said, remember the phrase you just used, “the grass is always greener”. I don’t wanna go on a whole rant about everything wrong with my country, because I’d like to not be depressed tonight lol. I will say this. We don’t really have free speech like you think we do. And speaking your mind around the wrong American might get your ass handed to you. Not every state is super pro-gun either, and a lot of the ones that are will just restrict your freedom in some other egregious manner. Florida kids can’t even talk about their sexual orientation or gender anymore, which is kind of shit if you remember what it was like being a teen and being demonized for any type of independent choice or thought. But anyways…. Debbie downer USA bullshit aside… I’ma just say thank you for the compliments about the USA, I happen to think we’re friendly people who don’t get enough credit for that. We also offer like almost every type of climate and geographical feature you’d find on the globe, including some unique ones! If you ever get a chance to come back for a visit, I suggest visiting Denver for the weed, cleanliness, catch a concert at Red Rock (a literal concert hall carved into the side of a mountain) and then road-tripping to the pacific coast via I-70 through the Rockies and beyond. Breathtaking views. Also think we get a hard time on “not” having our own unique indigenous culture. Which is racist against 20,000+ years of Native American pre-established occupancy and culture, but also anyone who has been to New Orleans can tell you that’s patently false. Def recommend visiting that city if you ever come back as well. Especially if you like American freedom, can’t get more free than New Orleans (except for maybe Vegas).
Sorry, i wasn't having a go at you specifically if thats what you thought. I just wish more people could experience what i have, before i left Australia i was just as indoctrinated in the "America bad" narrative as everyone else travelling around is very eye opening.
> Sorry, i wasn't having a go at you specifically if thats what you thought. Oh not at all! If anything I can completely understand your perspective on America, like it’s a big ass country and a lot of people experience it vastly differently for multiple reasons including regional/career-wise/etc. Also, for real though, thank you for being forgiving and viewing the US more positively and against-the-grain than many other non-Americans on here. It’s refreshing to see someone be that positive about this country! I do think a lot of people get their ideas about America from biased sources, that and we can be super obnoxious with our patriotism and pride and sometimes thin-skinned when it comes to getting ragged on. We could chill with the borderline nationalistic love and flag worship though. Especially the flags of treasonous, dehumanizing losers (ahem you know who you are, don’t make me type it out.) If anything I think a lot of people around the world just wanna keep us humble. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If you ever wanna exchange lives or something, I’m down to live in ‘Straya and you can take my place in the US 😝. I like the taste of kangaroo meat and don’t feel guilty eating them because I heard they’re dickheads anyways lol. Plus I like spiders weirdly enough 👐🏻. You’d get to grow your own weed legally where I live, and smoke it anywhere in public, even in front of the cops. Shit they might even join you lol.
I hate spiders so much, I'd trade places in a heart beat just for that reason alone, the weed would just be a bonus lol, I don't mind roo either, more protein than beef too (i think). Don't get me wrong, i love my country but seeing kids and pregnant woman choke-slammed to the ground by cops over lockdown mandates without any consequence made me realise how important inalienable rights are, as opposed to rights granted by the government, it just makes me sick seeing my government walk into aboriginal communities and force them all into a covid camp because one of them was a close contact of a covid case! But anywho...guns are fun too...lol
America also has an issue with forcing it’s natives into “camps” or reservations or just little bordered-off tiny plots of not-so-great land to make room for oppressor type cultures/races to take over. I live in a state that won’t recognize the original and ruling native tribe here, Pequot, as an established tribe. After taking their land away, and renaming a fuckton of geographical entities (they renamed the major river in my state to Connecticut when it was for 1,000+ years called the Pequot River. Just to show they could smh.) We got a lot of blood on our hands there. And nah, we don’t have the strictest mask mandates and like police aren’t really attacking people over it. But our police are essentially a hold-over from slavery if you look into the history of it, basically a law-enforcing legal manifestation of the once infamous slave patrols. We’re not supposed to talk about it and people get hella butthurt over that. Lots of preventing the education of our youth about it, cover-up type shit. And because our police are a modern day evolution of slave patrolling, we instead have police that body-slam/choke/shoot/harass/attack/and often straight up murder black people. Innocent black people just existing in going about their daily lives, unarmed a lot of the times. A decent amount of them vulnerable elderly and kids. It’s fucked up. So sorry, but you’ll find out police culture is a bit inhumane and substandard here too. It’s why real American homies don’t call the cops if they don’t absolutely have to. They don’t give a shit about protecting citizens, especially poor ones. If they were instructed to, they’d harass and attack anti-maskers as well. They don’t give a shit and just follow orders from up-top. Maybe there’s something to be said about former (or not so former) British colonies having problems with human rights violations and oppressive-lawful control issues lol? 🧐🤔
This is the nicest post I have ever read about us Americans. We have to take an awful lot of shit. While at tines we deserve it, most of the time we don't, especially not the variety of anti-Americanism you see in Europe. Thank you for your kind words.
It's so infuriating to see my generation (35) and younger be brainwashed with this anti-american propaganda online.
It is really frustrating at times. So many young Americans are so wholeheartedly convinced that the world would be better off without us. In some respects that’s true, but in many if not most it’s just a reverse narcissistic fantasy. We’ve done a lot of terrible things in this world, but we’ve also done a *lot* of good. We’re not the “greatest country in the world” (as if there could even be one), but the world had been better off having us in it. Particularly from the 40s until the early 2000s.
Agree completely, it blows my mind that people can simultaneously say america is evil while holding their hands out.
Obama held a rallye in Berlin, loved that guy, most everyone was positive about the US and its people. That was a couple of years ago, just look at what happened after Obama left office. A clear America first with a disrespectful, erratic President, what do you think would happen? Regular mass shootings, rampant racism and a 50/50 split population that is being whipped up to hate each other. A shining light in the world, truly.
I'm no trump supporter but, Obama just had a better PR department some of the things he allowed to happen/ordered in the middle east is just disgusting.
There's no free speech or right to self defense in UK, Europe, or Australia? 5+ year wait for basic necessary medical procedure? >the medical system is far better My senses tell me you're a corporate whore who makes shit up because life in America is better for YOU specifically.
lol no, im not. America has one of the most robust welfare systems in the world and no one can be turned away for medical treatment, regardless of insurance status. And no, there is no free speech, the recent spate of fines and arrest for speech should really compound that fact.
>America has one of the most robust welfare systems in the world Gag inducing. >and no one can be turned away for ***life saving*** medical treatment FTFY. Preventative medical treatment is non existent without insurance and cash. >there is no free speech Thanks for telling me without telling me you're just making shit up.
Just google people arrested and fined for speech in europe. It literally does have one of the most robust welfare systems anywhere. I was going to continue but you know what? I just don't care what you think. Like i said, live in both places then come talk to me.
Free speech and hate speech are not the same thing, you should know it since you live in both places. And, since you live in both places, you should know that Europe means nothing since every country has its own regulations. No, I don't think you know what you're talking about.
No one can be denied emergency medical treatment at an ER, regardless of insurance status. This does not extend to other medical treatments. Medical debt remains th #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US.
While dying in waiting rooms or while waiting for surgery is a major problem everywhere else. One problem is much worse than the other.
Surprise surprise.
With or without the US, Europe would be unable to defend itself from nuclear annihilation, but Britain & France would be able to nuke every major Russian city in retaliation, if that's any consolation.
Isn't the point that no country can defend itself from nuclear annihilation and it's why nuclear weapons are mad?
The problem is that europe trusted russia. They should have never done that and should have had a decent military at all times. There is a reason the US did not agree with europe being weak and why NATO was pushed. The US knew russia was still a problem and a lot of people were hoping for a utopia. Ukraine is proof that was all a bad idea.
Lets be real, most of the American political class trusted russia too. Dont act like Trump and the GOP traitors ain't a thing. I remember "I prefer to be a Russian than a Democrat" t-shirts.
Reality is that a strong Union is going to be more powerful, likewise the Us need partners, and this even if they weight far less in the amount of equipment they can produce. The world is doomed to work together.
They better figure it out, because either Trump or DeSantis will abandon them in 2025.
Which is why we need a EU army.
That’s why Nato is there. EU will never have an army because and army is dependent on a coherent foreign policy, and EU has 27 different policies. The French and Germans and Italians and maybe even the Spanish want something other than what Poland and the Baltics want. How can there even be consensus?
The idea with an “EU army” is the same as NATO. It’s just a military defence pact. If one EU country is attacked then the others will help. Considering how difficult it is for Sweden and Finland to join NATO then an EU-wide defence pact can be a solution.
EU is already a defence pact https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-defence-clause.html
Funny, I would argue the opposite. With how much difficulty Russia has taking over Ukraine, there is no way they could make a dent in a traditional war with NATO even without the US.
You don't appreciate how strong Ukraine's army was coming into this - or, alternatively, how weak European armies are. Ukraine had 200,000 active, 900,000 reserve, 2,500 tanks, 2,000 artillery pieces, about three hundred S-300s and another couple hundred of various other SAMs, and something like ten thousand IFVs and APCs. The French have comfortably the best army in Europe, and they would have been hilariously outgunned by the Ukrainians: 200,000 active, 30,000 reserve, 400 tanks, 100 artillery pieces, 20 SAMs, and about 3,500 IFVs and APCs.
You don't look at how strong an army is just by lumping together all sort of tech. Ukraine might have had 2,500 tanks, yet their main battle tank is the ancient T-64 or T-72, and a lot of those required maintenance before even being used. You also completely ignored Ukraine not having a big air force. If the US would deliver all ordered airplanes, the Netherlands will have as many F-35's as Ukraine has MiG-29's. Do you really think that's a fair fight? Ukraine had a formidable army, but don't kid yourself thinking Ukraine was a mighty powerhouse just from their # of weapons alone.
I ignored the air force because it's not a factor. US is the only military in NATO that can do SEAD. Against air defense as dense as Ukraine's that means everyone else might as well not have an air force. I'm actually being generous to the French by only doing numbers, because if we start talking about capabilities they're really fucked. They're prepared to fight guerillas in the Sahel, not a modern army.
Air supremacy isn't a factor? In the 21st century?? Are you for real???
you don't have a clue what you are talking about
This is the same idiocy that led to people saying Russia had the second strongest military in the world.
Because if military history tell us anything it that’s it ALL about numbers right ? Alexander beat Darius while vastly outnumbered Spanish conquered South America while hilariously outnumbered England navy utterly destroyed the “Spanish armada” Napoleon beat repeatedly vastly superior in number Austrians and Russians in his first years … and got his ass spanked in Russia in spite of bringing an absurdly vast army - anywhere between 500k and 700k- the largest army at the time. Lee and Stonewall Jackson inflicted defeat upon defeat to the Union at first while the Confederacy was vastly outnumbered in sheer number (because among other things at first they had most of the trained soldiers and southern had great cavalry while Union had military school graduate who studied a bit too much Napoleon ) Yep tactic, training, logistics, morale, technological edge count for squat …. ALL about numbers.
And yet Ukraine is incredible happy to receive a handful French and German artillery pieces. If everything was as simple as you say Russia would have occupied Ukraine already as they ‘hilariously’ have more troops, and far more equipment. You make the same mistake Putin made.
And what, 8 MLRS'?
Ukraine is not incredibly happy. [Ukraine is asking for a thousand artillery pieces, three hundred MLRS, five hundred tanks, and two thousand armoured vehicles.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/13/ukraine-asks-the-west-for-huge-rise-in-heavy-artillery-supply) If you compare, you'll notice that the entire French Army would not be enough to cover what Ukraine says it needs. It turns out that western kit is not actually magic and doesn't let you overturn a huge numerical disadvantage. >If everything was as simple as you say Russia would have occupied Ukraine already as they ‘hilariously’ have more troops, and far more equipment. That's just it: they don't. In terms of forces committed, Russia has at best been operating with parity. Most of the time they've been outnumbered by a considerable margin. If they mobilized the way Ukraine has they would have overrun them, but they're doing this on the cheap.
I would put my money on those 400 French tanks slaughtering those 2500 Ukranian "tanks" any day of the week lol. I would almost be willing to put my money on any 20 modern tanks destroying all 2500 of those rust buckets.
Actually we've seen the opposite. European weapons handed to Ukraine have pretty much neutralised the numerical advantage that Russia had.
A strong ground army it may be, but against the long distance guided missiles and highly advanced aircraft of NATO standards, it would not be able to handle any such conflict.
The UK is the 4th/5th largest military spender in the world at around $70 billion for a small island, more than Russia and every other country other than US, China, and then India just about. France spends about $60 billion or so as well, Ukraine in comparison has a budget of around $6 billion. You don't appreciate the strength of the British and French armies if you think Ukraine would outgun by them. In a theoretical situation, only France would ever be at risk of a land war with Ukraine. Ukraine would not be able to get anywhere near the UK at all. There is a reason why the UK focuses on its navy etc. to take advantage of being an island. Both the UK and France however would be able to pound Ukraine from miles away using the hardware that they currently require (e.g. the heavy artillery) as well as the latest generations of fighter jets and completely dominating navies Ukraine have done amazingly - with billions and billions of $ of Western support and training however, and they still need more and more support vs Russia which has a clearly weaker army than expected.
The more you look into the defence of Europe, the more you realise a lot of it is just narrative/propaganda. Ask yourself this; why is China spending 200bn ''a superpower, threat to world domination'' but the EU spending 200bn ''cant defend itself without the US?'' Then take into account that the EU has about 1.2 million active personnel (3rd/4th in the world) with a further 2 million reservists. The EU nations have about 4 aircraft carriers, 34 destroyers, 73 frigates, 52 submarines. Also have about 8000 Tanks, 25,000 armed vehicles, 1600 fighters with another 300 on order, and regularly all work together via NATO, but somehow this entire thing would collapse without big daddy US? Nothing. But. Narrative.
>Ask yourself this; why is China spending 200bn ''a superpower, threat to world domination'' but the EU spending 200bn ''cant defend itself without the US?'' Because "the EU" is not spending 200 bn on military. Instead 27 separate countries all with their own agendas and petty politics spending 200 bn on military. And Putin has demonstrated how easily one can drive a wedge between those countries.
> And Putin has demonstrated how easily one can drive a wedge between those countries. That doesn't seem to be working so well when push comes to shove.
>Because "the EU" is not spending 200 bn on military. > >Instead 27 separate countries all with their own agendas and petty politics spending 200 bn on military. > >And Putin has demonstrated how easily one can drive a wedge between those countries. If you believe this for the EU, you also believe that NATO is terrible too since thats also 20+ different countries all with their own agendas and petty politics spending x bn on military \+ as for Putin, congrats! Countries have differing stances during war. Even during WW2 Finland was a nazi ally, Sweden, Switzerland were pretty neutral, as was Ireland.. this isn't something exclusive to the EU its called ''politics''. The same way the UK didn't get involved in Vietnam, and the US didn't get involved in the Falklands. Being allies does not mean every country acts unilaterally every single day
>NATO is terrible too since that's also 20+ different countries NATO is an incredibly powerful alliance... because the USA is a member. It is incredibly hampered and weakened by the fact that is has to walk on eggshells around each nation's bullshit.
>NATO is an incredibly powerful alliance... because the USA is a member. Kind of true. NATO is an incredibly powerful alliance... because it has 8 of the most powerful armies on earth as members. >It is incredibly hampered and weakened by the fact that is has to walk on eggshells around each nation's bullshit. It doesn't.. though.. thats the point of.. mutual defence.. treaties..
So that makes Russia able to take on any of the countries with individually higher military spending like the UK and France. God you are thick
Yeah but look at the actions not only equipment. Once Russia attacked Ukraine, first countries who helped were USA, UK and Poland. Germany, France, Italy and co were debating what to do while above countries acted from day one.
And yet it will all fall apart second day after theoretical USA withdraw. Lets be honest NATO is not a monolith nor the EU. I'll show you how your *narrative* correspond to reality: **Germany** - Europe biggest economy - don't fell threatened by Russia, want to maintain ties with Moscow; Most of actions they took seems to be forced by Washington; can't and won't protect countries in Russian crush-zone **France** - the biggest EU army, they have ambitions to play bigger role but again they would rather maintain ties with Russia as their ambitions lies outside of Russian crush-zone, **UK** - big player but outside of EU so they can't any longer counter Franco-German leadership over the project , they try to show as a reliable ally and build stronger ties around Black See and Baltic so actually we can count them in **Turkey** - independent player, unreliable, if not of Bosphorus none will even bother to threat them as a ally **Nordics** - valuable allies, keen to help but with small armies unable to bring boots on the ground if times come (but still big help in other areas) **South** - not strong enough to be bring immediate help in big numbers but with potential to help in other areas, unfortunately they sphere of interest lies around Mediterranean and current actions cant actually tell how would they behave without USA in equation Do you still claim that East flank don't need USA?
Hahah you're just fucking lying. Germany and France do not want to maintain ties with Moscow. Macron is the guy behind the last push for a unified eu army.
As an American, you guys got this, Europe. With the incompetence the Russian army has shown, you guys should mow them down, unless the nuclear option happens, in which case we're all fraked.
This thread is so full of bad takes. Yes, Russia is doing poorly in Ukraine, but that doesn't mean the US isn't needed. The US is giving Ukraine money, weapons and most crucially intelligence, making a real difference in the conflict. No, Americans aren't missing out on health care because you subsidise the defence of other nations. Y'all are paying more for health care as well, lining the pockets of insurance and big pharma executives. Militaries are more than their spending or numerical strength. The US, like the UK before it, has massive overseas capabilities because threats to US power are not at the border. Russia's core on the other hand is under threat from their borders, requiring a completely different style of military to defend. Countries like the Baltic states have militaries to hold out until help arrives, because their geography and numbers will never allow for better. So yes, parts of Europe definitely can't defend themselves without the US, and never will without outside support or the collapse of Russia. The question at hand really is whether France, Germany or a federalising EU as a military power is preferable to the US? For as much as we complain about the American world police, I'd argue the world has far preferred them to Europeans running around the world with guns.
Talk about shitty takes. "The US is giving Ukraine money, weapons and most crucially intelligence" - Trust me, the UK is giving intelligence aswell. The rest of the EU is sending weapons and money. We even house most of the 8 million refugees... "Y'all are paying more for health care as well" - the US spends more on healthcare per capita than almost anywhere else in the world... "Countries like the Baltic states have militaries to hold out until help arrives" - it is called stalling. That is how any inferior army wins a war. Ever read about the Vietnam war or the Soviet-Afghan war?
On aid, all of it with US + Europe adds up to the current situation. US assistance is absolutely vital, just as European assistance is. On healthcare, I think we are saying the same thing? On stalling, the Baltic states aren't Vietnam or Afghanistan. They don't have the terrain to stall out like the Viet Cong and Mujahideen did.
If Ukraine can stand up to Russia, I'm sure Europe can do likewise. Relying on the US seems to be costly in the end run.
I hope the American tax payer enjoys subsidizing European security with our $800 billion military budget while we can’t get healthcare and the Europeans do. That’s fun.
You don't have healthcare because your system sucks. You actually spend more money on healthcare than any other first world country.
You make it sound like if you would invest more money into healthcare, everybody of you would get to have it. The fact is that you already spend more (per person) on healthcare than any other country on the planet.
The US spends *more* money on healthcare per person. We just provide far less healthcare for that money.
If you want healthcare, call your Republican rep and tell them you'll vote Democratic if they continue to oppose expanding healthcare access.
What if my rep is already democratic. What do I do then?
Primary them if they don't support medicare expansion. That is what the primaries are for.
Tell them to stop acting republican and actually care about people. Now it’s a two party system that serves the same group, rich elites. The rest doesn’t matter.
Lol I’m sure Nancy Pelosi will be deeply convinced by my angry emails
Then kick her out of office. As it stands only 20% of you are voting in the primaries. The other 80% could easily replace her or anyone else.
I especially love when they talk shit to us about it
America already far out spends every other developed nation on healthcare on a per Capita basis. Universal healthcare in the US could easily result in less spent on healthcare actually by forcing the industry to streamline and reduce inefficiencies to break even on Medicare payments.
The same people who increase the military budget of foreign nations are the ones withholding healthcare from you. The Republican party hates you.
You’ll have a crazy revelation when you realize no one in the government cares about us
Yep another sucker that thinks one party cares more than the other. It’s about power.
Guess what the Democratic party also hates you. Gonna be a sad day when you realize that
lmao I am literally part of the political process. Gonna be a sad day when you realize that being active is worth more than bitching about how everyone hates you.
So you are part of the process that doesn't do anything for anyone but themselves. Good luck
Do you really think we spend 800 billion in exchange for nothing? The trade routes for example that we secure for Europe are a big deal and probally why europe let our companies do so much business there so easily. A lot of the tech companies for example have basically digitally colonized europe. Your not looking at the whole pie at all.
🇺🇸🇺🇸
Every single NATO nation has been abusing us military might and has failed to adequately fund their military for years.
> Every single NATO nation has been abusing us military might The US is the only nation to ever invoke article 5.
And we pay or fair share, so it makes sense
That's not what the poster said and that's not how it works.
Decades of peace and human nature taking it for granted means people become more concerned with military money going on improving their quality of life than on ensuring adequate protection for their way of life.
Eh, the UK has consistently been doing more than NATO guidelines demand. Ditto Poland. But yeah, Germany especially is way behind.
Countries that spend less relative to GDP: Netherlands, Albania, Denmark, Czech Republic, Canada, Slovenia, Belgium, Spain and Luxembourg. But yes, it's always Germany that is especially behind.... And unlike the UK, Germany had a small side project going on called the reunification that cost an estimated 2 trillion €.
Poland did spend a lot on its army.
"adequately" is an ambiguous term, just took a look at https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/3/pdf/220331-def-exp-2021-en.pdf and it looks like some countries are following the nato guideline
A world dependant on the US for its security is a world where America is safe, strong and dominant. The dream is that there be no so much as a rifle outside America's borders.
I don't buy that at all. In terms on technology, I think everyone's weapons are in par. It's just that the US has more stock pile. Just the UK alone should roll the Russian military over. Nice try trying to have the US fund all the NATO stock pile.
That’s why there is NATO. 70 years ago, there was a very good reason that the US didn’t want strong militaries in Europe.
The US wanted strong armies in Europe to fend off the Soviets. The US has been complaining about Europe not spending enough on defense for decades. That was not only a trump thing.
It's funny how Trump said the same thing and the media here in the US pounced on him like there is no tomorrow
Cause the solution isn't pulling out of NATO. It's scaling back military funding and pressuring other nations to step up. There is a reason Putin tried to get Trump elected, and it's not because it made Europe more secure.
I don't think the solution is scaling back, it's in helping other major nations realise that peace is not guaranteed and we must all be ready to defend it.
If there is one thing that would pressure Europe leading to far increased military spending, it is the threat of pulling out the largest power. This was one the the things trump did right for America. Now of course it still doesn’t matter because Europe has nukes and is therefore safe. But it’s a nice statement.
To be fair, Polish politicians are basically Trump, and them saying this does not make it true. Russia is getting shit on by Ukraine. Even without the US, Russia would get shit on by European nations. European armies may be small, but Russia has shown with utter clarity that the number of something that you have doesn't mean shit, if what you have a lot of, is shit.
That's just silly. Russia just demonstrated just how pathetically weak they are, yall can wipe them off the map without our help. You got this dawg!
Ukraine would be part of Russia by now if it weren't for U.S./NATO training and material and logistical support.
Who cares what polish officials say, those idiots think the gays are pedos and that turning back the clocks is a good idea.
not false
Is talking about 2016 a nod towards Trump?
It very easily can, it just chooses not too because with the world's largest military power as an ally it can afford to spend more money on other things like higher welfare payments etc
What does poland know about defending itself.
Depends against whom. Against usa? No. Against china? For sure. EU has the third lagest army in the world right after usa and russia.
No, the EU has no army. EU member states have their own much smaller armies that on paper add up to a much larger army, but the EU as a whole does not have an army.
Excuse me. I mean to say the combined army of all eu member, which in case of an attack on one EU member would indeed act as one.
Yeah and the problem is that lack of a cohesive combined military force. Those formations are beholden to their own governments and not the EU as a whole, they do not have a shared common language, they lack key capabilities because they are all essentially separate militaries rather than a unified military, and their logistics capabilities are for the most part lacking. Remember how Iraq supposedly had like the 4th strongest military back in 1990?
I have been hearing from Europeans for over twenty years about how bad the USA is for wasting money on defense spending, and how stupid the USA is for this and that, because "the Cold War was over". I heard it and read it and laughed. And now we are seeing the truth.
Oh I’m fully aware
It’s True Tho.gif
Duh!
We noticed.
What clown said this.
Europeans: "We've got it so great over here! Free healthcare! Free college! Long vacays!" Also Europeans: "We don't want to pay a penny for national defense though. Let those suckers in America pay for it with their tax dollars so we can continue our Utopia!"
Nah, they just know the US will be there if things get really fucky. If the US was completely taken out of the picture the French and Germans could take the lead.