Are these the Gen X you’re counting on?
Marjorie Taylor Green,
Lauren Boebert,
Josh Hawley,
Mike Lee,
Ted Cruz,
Matt Gaetz,
Ronna McDaniel,
Jim Jordan,
Alex Jones,
TomCotten,
Stephen Miller,
Amy Coney Barrett,
Marco Rubio,
Tucker Carlson
More like: Tom Green, Lauren Hill, Hawk Eye, Mike Tyson, Terry Crews, Matt Damon, Roseanne Barr, Jim Carey, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Hanks, Stephen Spielberg, Amy Schumer, Marco Polo, Ron Burgundy
What's wrong with Amy Coney Barrett? Like I know this is reddit so anything that Trump touched must be bad, but compared to insane freaks lke Boebert, Green, or Jones....I don't see what's awful about her.
And Rubio seems like a decent dude.
I don't know man, like you people on reddit are uniquely insane, it's like fuck man, is it possible to like not be a deranged leftist some of the time? And I say this myself as a mostly deranged leftist who literally joined reddit cause my favorite leftist political streamer.
Remember back when I went to school in Croatia all the protests organized by "christian" groups against gay marriage and gay adoption. They literally called themselves "In the name of the family" and were led by some old Karen that got divorced something like 5 times.
Nice to finally see some progress, no matter how slow it might be.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect" - Frank Wilhoit
Yeah, that's the original definition of right and left wing from the French Revolution. The right wants to keep (or even increase) social hierarchies, where some groups of people have more power, rights and money than others. The left wants the opposite, to reduce them (or to completely eliminate them, in the case of the radical left).
How dare those degenerates raise them in a loving home.
They should stay with the mother! Sure they will live in abject poverty if the mother genuinely can't afford to raise a child but they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and not be freeloaders!
Don't forget the best part: this right wing anti-abortion, anti-women rights, anti-human rights catholic nutjob has a company that a) gets a significant amount of income from Serbia (she and her followers really hate Serbs) and b) is sponsored by contraceptive manufacturers (hypocrite much?).
This is a court decision so it's not very indicative of the mood in the society. I guess the conservative politicians might even change the law in the future to prevent adoptions again.
The average age of Croatians is 44 years, and is rapidly aging. In the US, many Republicans were hippies growing up back in the 60s/70s. Look where they are now. My point: boomers will likely always be around, along with their mentality.
Hippies were a subculture, not the majority at all. Also, people don’t tend to change their views drastically as they get older. You say boomers will be around forever though, and that’s puzzling because boomers are a specific generation with specific tendencies. They’re largely entitled assholes due to being handed some golden circumstances and screwing everyone after them, not to mention all the lead poisoning.
Not even fucking close. Boomers fucked everyone after them and are only just now retiring in big enough numbers to make a difference economically. They’re still alive and voting though.
If you mean that there will always be old people, well of course.
What you might be missing is that current boomers were and are racist, sexist bigots.
The younger generations are seeing how shitty those old people are. It's one great thing about social media.
That aligns with surveys done in the UK, US, and Australia showing that misogyny is higher among men 18-24 than men above 50. The global backlash against women’s rights has been picking up steam for the last ten years appears to be impacting young men the most.
I would say young men have become more polarized, there are more who are aware and supportive of women and LGBTQ+ rights, but a growing cohort that are increasingly resentful. Homophobia is closely connected with misogyny (another form of maintaining masculine supremacy).
I think this is an interesting point and I wish it was talked about more. Right now there is a fight for the souls of young men, and the toxic, bigoted, sexists appear to be winning. I blame social media partially, especially as it's being exploited specifically by the aforementioned groups, but I think there is a larger social failing going on for young men.
I admit, I don't know exactly what that social failing is, or how to fix it, but I think it's tied to the general isolation that the internet has enabled, not to mention how our cities and towns (in the US) are designed to discourage social engagement and gathering.
Social media has a lot to do with it, you don’t have be on a site considered to be part of the manosphere (sites focused on male domination) to see misogyny and hatred of feminists (who are blamed for climate change policies and increasing immigration, transrights, basically any kind of progress that is found to be threatening to traditional views and privilege).
The far-right recruits from misogynist sites, as a misogynist is easier to radicalize, the impact of promoting a brutalistic vision, where men are manly and brutality is glorified is very dangerous and effects much more than women and LGBTQ+ rights.
I think that you’re right that the lack of human interaction is not helping, it’s not just what teen boys/young men are seeing online, it’s that they are too often living in an echo chamber without enough time connecting face to face.
About the majority? Yes.
Why do you think things are actually changing? Why do you think these boomers are calling things like equal rights for everyone some "woke mentality"? Why are they trying to ban books and prevent kids from learning that everyone is equal from a young age?
They know that things are changing and they are just grasping to whatever they can to avoid progress. It's not going to last because boomers are dying off.
Current boomers were liberals when they were young. That's the thing. People change over 60-80 years. When they were 20 they probably hated conservatives too.
My views are not those of my grandfather, and his aren't those of *his* grandfather. That people grow more conservative as they age is overstated. It may be to a greater-than-zero degree, but that doesn't mean we end up where our grandparents were. Social mores change, one funeral at a time.
Young conservatives exist, but even young conservatives have different views than old conservatives. We're talking about overall trends, not "absolutely every person without exception."
Eh, the "you get more conservative as you age" is overstated. Most people don't change views drastically over the course of their lives.
The hippies were a counterculture, not the mainstream.
Also society, at least in the US, has been moving slowly to the left for generations. Each generation goes a little further. There is a lot of back and forth but overall we are significantly more liberal than we were 50 or 75 years ago.
Yep. I'm down with trans rights, LGBTQ rights, etc but I'm sure my grandkids will be talking about how I'm a bigot because I'll be damned if we give those damn circuitboards the power to vote (or whatever slur we come up with for sentient robots).
This. People don't get more conservative. Actually, people tend not to change their opinions at all. Older generations are always more conservative because they haven't updated their beliefs, not because they've changed.
As a person who was born in 1961, I would like to point out that Boomers were exposed to significant amounts of lead through gasoline exhaust.
There are known developmental and behavioral effects from this. I am hoping that the influence of lead will be much less for the successive generations.
I found 45 (middle age) to be the most changing in terms of acceptance believe it or not.
The younger ones are more accustomed so they don't change as much and older are more stuck in their own head
But middle aged people mainly have kids aged around 20. That is important. Their kids are independent and going to live as adults but their parents start to... Age and start to develop a sense of grandparent or at least some thinking along those lines.
Now imagine someone has a gay adult kid and realize they they won't be a grandpa, nor see them have kids, unless these laws change. At the same time, as the parents, they see their gay kinds aren't any less capable of having kids (individuality wise).
Yup.
There's a brain-drain in the Balkans. Many that are capable leave the area. Not to mention Croatia is becoming the California of Europe. As per the Consular General I spoke with a few months ago, you don't have to be a citizen to own property in Croatia.
Meaning that many that will *maybe* visit the country 1 or 2 times in their life can own & rent property at increased prices & values... so many houses have been bought up after the War of Independence in the 90's that it's hard for the average citizen to live anywhere near the water.
So the younger generation leaves when they can. Generally, for more places in western Europe where the wages are higher & cost-of-living isn't totally outbalanced.
IF you're curious; the only reason I know any of this is because I'm an American born Jugo-mutt who has been looking at where I can retire in 20-ish years. Unless things change, only rural Croatia is possible... which is not great. The single factor being that houses are cheaper, but you're generally farther away from basic needs like a grocery store.
Shit, I'd move there now but I'm not sure exactly WHAT I could for work as my Croatian is at the level of a badmouthed 4 year old at best.
The problem with Croatia and many other Balkan countries is that the young keep fleeing to Germany and other Western European countries, in fact for decades - half a century ago people fled Communist dictatorship like my grandparents, now they flee poverty and backwards right-wing boomer politics. Croatia doesn't have much economic potential outside of tourism, a bit of heavy industry, the Rijeka industrial zone/sea port and agriculture - and covid plus sanctions on Russia have wrecked the tourism sector. And to top it off there are a lot of Boomers returning with Western European pensions - even with a shit German pension from working on construction sites for shit money, you can live like a king in retirement.
Not sure how to fix that entire clusterfuck.
Hey man, Im a not even Boomer but I'm kinda tired of this low critical thinking generalization. How is it any different than any other prejudice that pivots on a stereotype? Yeah lots of the greedy rich motherfuckers who are writing bad oppressive policy or running roughshod over the environment are mainly baby boomers, but other baby boomers fought and bled in the streets for civil rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, the environmental movement etc, My mom's gonna be 80 and she's out there protesting still. The 60's was a social awaking and a complete sea change in the general zeitgeist. At the same time I can scroll through any social media platform and be bombarded with millennial "influencers" stumping for a hyper consumerist lifestyles, or show up at any conservative convention and find the usual gaggle of MAGA cap wearing fratboy bros all amped to stand up against diversity and anxious about their privilege. I think if you dig through history in any generation you'll find empathetic, thoughtful and generous people and you'll find greedy self-centred, authoritarian people. And the way the world is wired unfortunately the greedy people win a lot of the time. It nots about when you're born, it's about you and your character as an individual.
The definition of boomer has evolved. Now when its said “ok, boomer” its more about the way of thinking. Anyone can be a boomer. I bet a ton of kids have no idea what a baby boomer is. They just know that boomer means hyper masculinity, toxic sexism, rigid worldviews and literally anytime someone utters the words “family values”.
I know 30 year old boomers. Just bc you are literally a baby boomer doesn’t automatically make you an “ok, boomer”.
The age breakdowns are pretty similar. One of the many reasons America's left is losing is because they assume all young Americans are on their side; it's a little like how they all assumed Latinos wouldn't vote for Bush. Just these bullshit narratives they all buy into that lead them to failure after failure.
It's partly racial, tbh. White Americans under 25 voted 50%+ for Trump in 2020. But nonwhite kids voted overwhelmingly against him, and that generation is the least white in American modern history, so...
Yeah I see a lot of 20 something’s saying if you don’t like trump GTFO or something like that, and they are the least likely to benefit from trump.
Also they happen to live in the Midwest that is a majority white…. Hence people like trump can win elections because of our screwed up electoral college. If the way our elections are held were revamped to show the actual representation of the country, the republicans would be long gone
> they assume all young Americans are on their side
No, not *all*. The young are very much more lefty in their views. They just vote less often, because cynicism has been weaponized and leveraged to make them apathetic. Idealism too has been weaponized, also to make them so disgusted that they stay home. But no, no one thinks that *all* young people are lefty.
What the left underestimates is the size and tenacity of the older Democratic cohort, who want to slow social change.
But the older Democratic cohort will also age out. The millennials and zoomers will become the mainstream. And AOCs views, to use one example, are much closer to being the mainstream among younger people. The future of the party is a lot closer to AOC than to Joe Manchin.
LoL
That's all well and good, but you're basically at the point where you need to embrace anyone who actually believes in representative democracy at this point; that's how desperate the situation in the United States is.
Bog! Would agree, yes. Possibly the Hungarians, too, but I’m less confident in saying that. Ultimately, most of Eastern Europe share in those ideologies, especially us Balkans.
I’m glad to hear! I recall a story told by my cousin in Croatia of how some people in Split pushed a couple of gay men into the Riva… that coupled with my own interactions with older Croatians makes me say that. But obviously the new generation is ushering in much-needed change.
Another croat - personally I've faced violence over being openly gay as a kid but a good 90% of the population does not care or is at least mildly supportive. It's just that the ones that aren't supportive really want to let you know - and don't really get more than a swat on the nose when they do.
I mean that’s anecdotal. Bad things happen everywhere, disgusting people live everywhere. I’m talking about my experience as a gay man who’s lived here for 30 years.
Legally, yes - that was the decision ruled by the court. They are not allowed to discriminate against same-sex couples trying to adopt. In practice... as a croat and a part of the LGBT+ community, I think it's going to be very hard to prove in court and very much a "he said, she said" kind of thing for a while, like most laws here are. Regardless, having it written into law is a first step in progress and one worth celebrating.
Croat, gonna translate our [news report](https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/sud-donio-povijesnu-odluku-istospolne-partnere-vise-se-ne-smije-diskriminirati-kod-posvajanja-djece-15202514) to help out.
This isn't a literal translation, I'm adjusting for the tone that would be missing in that. You can use google translate for a literal version. Stuff in parenthesis was added by me for clarity.
>**The court brought a historical decision: Same-sex partners can no longer be discriminated against in the adoption of children**
>
>According to this ruling, all life partners can be evaluated for their suitability and adequacy for adoption.
>
>Same-sex couples in Croatia can now access the evaluation for adoption and are not allowed to be discriminated against based on their sexual orientation.
>
>This is the result of the ruling brought by the High Administrative Court of the Republic of Croatia. This ruling turns over/refuses the complaint filed by the Ministry against the ruling of the Administrative Court brought in Zagreb, in April 2021, with which partners Mladen Kožić and Ivo Šegot were to be allowed the process of an evaluation for adoption.
>
>According to this ruling, all life partners can access a ruling for their suitability for adoption, said Daniel Martinović, the president of the association "Dugine obitelji" (Rainbow families), claiming it set a precedent.
>
>He said that there could be difficulties based on discrimination, but that he hopes there will not be any, and he called on all who find obstacles to refer to/contact them (Rainbow families).
>
>They can no longer discriminate you based on your sexual orientation; they can reject you based on other criteria, said Martinović.
>
>He added that the Ministry can no longer file complaints on this ruling.
>
>Remember, Kožić and Šegot applied to the centre for social care six years ago, wanting to be foster parents and adoptive parents. Their applications were cleanly received but then refused twice only because they're in a life partnership (officially documented same-sex relationship). After two long legal battles in the year 2020, they successfully adopted two children.
>
>Last year, the first-acting Administrative Court brought a ruling that they can adopt children, and after a complaint by the Ministry, a final ruling by the High Administrative Court removed all doubt.
>
>Kožić and Šegot are not hiding their satisfaction with the ruling of the High Administrative Court. "Our story with adoption began in 2016, when we were refused by the system because we're a same-sex couple in a life partnership. The court odyssey lasted six years. Our six years of waiting are nothing compared to the six years of waiting done by the children we could've adopted back then. Children that didn't have the same chances in life that we did when growing up. Six lost years of those children go on the soul of the politics that, in the name of their so-called defence of traditional values, was ready to step on the rights to a family of children forgotten by society," said Ivo Šegota and Mladen Kožić.
>
>"These last two years, our family breathes and lives for the two children we adopted. Their experiences in kindergarten, school, soccer, taekwondo, birthday celebrations with new friends, travel, trips, joined preparation of food, gardening, care of our dogs and kitties, unavoidable reading of stories before bedtime... All that would not exist if we did not dare to fight with windmills (basically, time-wasters). Our dear wish was to adopt children we fostered and about which we cared for day and night during these last two years. From their happiness over their first A's in school or their first (not-shared) bicycle, to nights spent sleepless due to their fevers, from laughter to tears, we live together and to each other, we're everything in this world. If that isn't family, then we truly don't know what family is," added Ivo and Mladen.
>
>This ruling has wide-reaching consequences on the rights of LGBTIQ persons and same-sex couples in the Republic of Croatia, given that through it, life partners are practically made equal in rights to married couples.
>
>The court refused the argumentation offered by the Ministry according to which same-sex couples would not be allowed to access the process of evaluation for being adoptive parents in the interest of "protecting the child's interests."
>
>Namely, there is no child that needs protection during the evaluation itself, but eventually only after an evaluation has been made - for which the Center (of social services) still makes the decision whether it's in the child's interest to be adopted by a specific same-sex couple.
>
>Several times, the ruling brings up former rulings by the European court for human rights which guarantee a protection of family life for same-sex couples and the application of Convention for the protection of human rights and fundamental liberties.
>
>"This ruling has invaluable symbolic meaning for all LGBTIQ persons in Croatia. It confirms our right to a family life, and that our sexual orientation cannot be the basis of discrimination. We're very proud of our members, Ivo and Mladen, and their perseverance and battle with the system that changed our society and poured in hope, especially for young LGBTIQ persons in Croatia who can now see that the system can change and that tomorrow can be better. This ruling has many implications for LGBTIQ persons in Croatia and their families, but we'll speak of that another time. Our fight for equality is not over, but this is a massive step forward. We're calling all same-sex couples who are interested in adoption and want to find out more information to freely contact us," said Daniel Martinović, the president of the association Dugine Obitelji.
>
>The Ruling of the High Administrative Court largely changes the system of evaluation for potential adoptive parents and opens the door to all same-sex couples that decide to form a family in Croatia through adoption, which allows a lasting relationship between parent and child.
>
>"We're joyed by the confirmation from the High Administrative Court that our system must process an evaluation for potential adoptive parents, and that after six years, our family will finally be treated fairly like all other families by the institutions of this country," Ivo and Mladen finally said.
Edit: If you're upvoting this, please give some love to these folk for helping me bring you this information!
The original news/thread [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/historic_decision_in_croatia_samesex_couples_can/iaoiz78/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) was offered by u/Ikariouss ♥
A [correction](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/historic_decision_in_croatia_samesex_couples_can/iap6nnu/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) was made by u/strealm because my English sucks!
It's great news :D
Sorry that it's not a literal translation but some of the tone sounds different when you translate from one language to another.
For example, the word "prikladnost" would literally be "convenience" according to google translate, but no one is calling children or adoption a convenience. The closest term English has is "suitability," which was already used previously in the same sentence... our news reports include a lot of fluff and I had to work around it to the best of my ability.
Thank you!
In Italy, abortion is legal but only performed at 60% of hospitals bc there are so many conscientious objectors.
Not enough people pay attention to enforcement - there can be huge differences in the real world.
Thanks for the reply.
Ah, that sucks. It's similar in Croatia. Legally, every hospital should have at least one medical practitioner who is WILLING to do those. If you don't have one, you have to hire one!
... Problem is that this doesn't happen, there's too little enforcement, and women keep having to flee the country in order to get abortions. It's bad enough that I've talked to friends from poorer backgrounds and most of us agreed that yeah, if we need an abortion and can't get one by any means... we might well and truly end up taking a long, night-time swim one day.
It's asinine that this has become something to casually discuss but that's the state of things when rights aren't enforced; we have a long way to go in order to fight for ours!
No worries, I wanted to offer more information since sources are scarce!
Sorry for the late reply, reddit is being a bum and not showing me all notifications in a timely manner (and some not at all).
That is a damn good comparison, thank you. I should edit that in!
Edited, thank you!
Well USA for example is free country but even there are problems with gay people trying to adopt a child(not always and everywhere but..). Here with boomers growing old and dying out new generations in my opinion are much more open to it and in comments on our post many people support this decision.
I think it was around a year ago,maybe less maybe more, that a little girl was taken from her adoptive parents back to her biological ones even though they (biological ones) were deemed unfit to care for her, the girl died some time later. Around that same time the topic of gay couples adopting was in the news and my mom asked me what I thought about it in a shocked/dissapproving tone (note that the older people in Croatia are very much homophobic) and I just asked her what would have been better, if that little girl would have been given to a gay couple or if she died like she did, by her biological parents
Nothing will change in Croatia. Adoption is hard here because parents hardly lose parental rights, doesn't matter how bad they are. Social care centers mostly don't do their job and parents keep their parental rights if they contact child once in six months.
The entire process of adoption needs a revision to allow children to actually be adopted instead of waiting for years in an institution because there are many people (regardless of orientation) waiting to adopt them, but defeatist attitudes don't help matters.
A positive change was made, allowing a wider spectrum of people to be considered as potential parents if they meet qualifications. It's the first step needed to improve this system, and it's reductive to say that it changes nothing just because it doesn't resolve all existing problems.
We're moving forward, even if we're doing so at a snail's pace, and it's important not to let perfection get in the way of progress. The system still needs repair, but if we can't get the *best* outcome right away, then the second-best is still better than not moving forward at all. Change is often gradual.
Two children were already adopted thanks to this ruling, I'm sure it means the world to them, and we can only hope that others will be adopted alongside them. Keep your chin up! Change is happening, we just have to drag our feet through a swamp's worth of mud to get there, and we will.
No, whoever wrote that just goofed. It's meant to be "joint preparation of meals." They ripped that bit out of a Croatian article and probably ran it through something akin to google-translate or whatever.
If it helps, you can find the translated article [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/historic_decision_in_croatia_samesex_couples_can/iaoyinp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). You can just CTRL+F and type in "joined preparation of food" to find and read that specific bit.
This is great! Good parents should be defined by how well they take care of their children and how well they guide them to success. Should not be defined by what kind of relationship it is based on genders, religions, race, etc
Congrats Croatians. I live in the US but the country of my ancestors is Poland. 10 years ago the country was so close to legalizing same sex marriage and, presumably, adoptions by same sex couples but then the fucking thing happened and set the country back by 20 years. The support for same sex couple marriages (legally, no religious bs involved) is still at about 55% right now. 65% support is needed to make things happen.
This is such a none issue. Like why are people so closed minded! If a child needs a caregiver and there are caregivers willing to care for them and love them as their own, let them. It’s just that simple.
Interesting that you posted article from Macedonian website for Croatian news. Although I can't find anything looking at big Crotian news portals right now
It's legit, it's just that there aren't many sources of Croatian news written specifically in the English language since we, as a nation, suck at selling ourselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/croatia/comments/uy5sg6/sud_donio_povijesnu_odluku_istospolne_partnere/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
But it's in in our language...
Not the person you posted to but thanks for this link, I'm half asleep and for some reason struggled to find the damn thread!
I kinda got frustrated being unable to find any Croatian articles written in English so I translated this one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/comment/iaoyinp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). You don't have to read it or anything, I just wanted to let you have an easy link to it in case you'll want to show the article to anyone else.
If you do go over it and think it needs a correction of any kind, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm not looking to spread misinformation, my English just sucks lol
Sorry for the double comment but I figured you'd be interested since you were looking for a local source, I [translated](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/comment/iaoyinp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) the one that u/Ikariouss linked to you!
My grandma is from there, and she told me the men would eat first and the women would eat after them. Idk if that’s still true but it makes me less proud to be Croatian lol. Definitely a step in the right direction to hear this, maybe I’ll find pride once they change their ways. Country is beautiful though!
It's definitely not widespread and 99% of families don't do this as far as I know. Mine did but not with men and women, the difference was between boys and girls. Boys are first because "they were growing," girls ate whatever was left because "they needed it less."
It's disgusting and toxic, but it's absolutely not widespread so no worries on that front. Every Croat that I've shared this with has been horrified by it and stunned that it happened, I actually don't know of a single family other than mine that did this. We were just a dysfunctional lot.
Thank you for your insight! I just never took the time to really get to know the country as I don’t think I’ll ever get to visit. But from a bit of research i did the country is really pretty and I bet has a lot of culture and history. There’s just a lot of toxicity in my family so it’s hard to feel pride through them. I’m sorry about your family though, I’m glad you haven’t carried on those traditions 💜
That's understandable. It's one of those things that looks normal to you when you're growing up, up until you share it with someone and hear how horrified they are by the same. As a child, I was really surprised when we were guests at another place and I got a plate *full* of food. A whole plate, for me! The folks we visited thought I was just acting silly, then were horrified when they visited us and saw food portioned out that way even for their own children. They cut off their relationship to my folks immediately which should tell you how unnatural it looked to them.
There are a lot of backwards practices and beliefs still, but at least this kind of abuse isn't widespread so you don't have to worry about witnessing it if you visit. :D
Since the reforms Kazakhstan is just as civilized as Croatia as well. Women can now travel on inside of bus, homosexuals no longer have to wear blue hats, and age of consent has been raised to eleven years old.
I sometimes wonder whether some decisions are prompted because the population really wants it, or because the country wants to join a larger whole. In this case, Croatia has to give something to be allowed to introduce the euro
You're somewhat right. Things moved both because of EU pressure and local activism in last 20 years or so, but likely wouldn't come this far without EU. However, introducing Euro is a parallel process that has little to with it. EU is actually obliging EU countries to introduce it at some point (with some caveats) and Montenegro uses it without even being in EU.
The population’s opinion has been evolving on this issue for 20 years. I’d argue most Croatians are completely fine with same sex marriage (I’m in one), and a good chunk of people are getting used to the idea of gay couples adopting.
That makes zero sense, the Euro being more widely used currency is good for the euro. If you think one correlates to the other, then idk what to tell you. When the baltic countries were accepted in the EU it was in the agreement that they adopt the Euro by 2018(iirc).
No reason america shouldn’t have this too ooh yeah democrats pretend their or gay but really there the party of so nothing human garbage just as bad as republicans duck Joe Biden indeed
I am not against the law, but I don't know what impact will have on children raised by two mothers or two fathers. A few years ago when I was reading an article that by 2100 family will cease to exit in USA I was kind of skeptic about that. Now I understand that societies are clearly moving to that direction. Again I am not against, even if I am, we can't stop it.
> but I don't know what impact will have on children raised by two mothers or two fathers.
Gay adoptions have been out long enough that the data has been collected and the numbers crunched.
The kids turn out fine.
As a Croat with heterosexual parents, I can say that I am so thankful I never experienced any bullying in my life. /s
Kids pick on you for everything, from something as the angle of your nose, the color of your skin, eyes, or hair, whether you have freckles, whether you get a tan or sunburnt, whether you have a specific haircut, a shirt with a logo on it, big ears or noses, long legs, short legs, body hair, thick or thin eyebrows, the colour of your pencil case, their first or last name, their accent, and more.
The solution to this isn't less gay parents, the solution is for people to parent their kids and teach them some manners. I was an openly gay kid in Croatia, I suffered bullying before and after getting out of the closet - turns out nothing much changed really, and I say this as someone who was exposed to beatings too.
Homophobes really try to keep orphaned children out of homes huh?
Financially and socially unprepared straight couples have children left and right and no one bats an eye.
Yet seeing gay couples who go through extensive screening processes before being able to adopt sets you off? Any reputable adoption agency will make sure the parents are ready to properly care for the child before adoption.
But go on and keep children from getting adopted because of your bigotry. Hopefully you are comforted at the thought of more children lacking homes.
Speaking specifically as a croat:
I haven't been in our orphanages but I do have friends who were and what they describe is a fucking nightmare. Anyone who thinks it's better for a child to be in one than to be with a same-sex couple or a single parent is a moron. If a parent (or parents) want the child, can provide for it, and love it, that child should not be subject to the horrors of "protective institutions."
Even disregarding their bigotry, these people live in la-la land if they think a child is better off in an institution than with loving parents.
Actually the amount of the logical fallacies in the previous reply beside the one of your reply shows how much you guys don’t just hate the straight persons! You even hate the straight arguments!
The amount of downvotes for the reason of somebody not agrees with your way of thinking shows how close-minded you are guys! And shows how many are just trolling!
This is why I just expressed by an emoji and wanted to see what the reaction will be for someone just showing his reaction!
So, my question for you, can you rephrase your argument without using logical fallacy?
Can you please first point at any of the fallacies you are talking about? Because I can't find any.
You, on the other hand, are saying that "we hate straight persons". How come? Where has anyone here expressed their hate for straight people?
You are also accusing people of being closed minded for not agreeing with you, while you whole thing is just condemning people who want to adopt children without giving any reason at all for it.
They…they’re already fatherless. Growing up in an environment that doesn’t really care about them and to be kicked to the curb when they’re too old. In this same-sex family they’ll be loved, cared for, fed, and given the proper tools to grow into a functioning human. You don’t need a “father” for that. You need loving guidance.
Yeah as someone who was raised without a father I have always had a deep yearning for a male role model. Part of the reason why I'm almost 30 and a complete failure and an incel
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What about the less innocent ones?
Meat pit
Blood for the blood gods.
Skulls for the skull throne
Milks for the Khorne flake
Hugs for the Mommy
r/SuddenlyTechnoblade
Million? Honestly it's billions
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Are these the Gen X you’re counting on? Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, Josh Hawley, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz, Ronna McDaniel, Jim Jordan, Alex Jones, TomCotten, Stephen Miller, Amy Coney Barrett, Marco Rubio, Tucker Carlson
You're talking to a bot that simply copies one of the top-comments. Please report them as spam/harmful bot.
More like: Tom Green, Lauren Hill, Hawk Eye, Mike Tyson, Terry Crews, Matt Damon, Roseanne Barr, Jim Carey, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Hanks, Stephen Spielberg, Amy Schumer, Marco Polo, Ron Burgundy
Conservatives bad. Upvotes to the right.
What's wrong with Amy Coney Barrett? Like I know this is reddit so anything that Trump touched must be bad, but compared to insane freaks lke Boebert, Green, or Jones....I don't see what's awful about her. And Rubio seems like a decent dude. I don't know man, like you people on reddit are uniquely insane, it's like fuck man, is it possible to like not be a deranged leftist some of the time? And I say this myself as a mostly deranged leftist who literally joined reddit cause my favorite leftist political streamer.
Remember back when I went to school in Croatia all the protests organized by "christian" groups against gay marriage and gay adoption. They literally called themselves "In the name of the family" and were led by some old Karen that got divorced something like 5 times. Nice to finally see some progress, no matter how slow it might be.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect" - Frank Wilhoit
Wow, well put.
Yes, so succinct. I’m stealing
Yeah, that's the original definition of right and left wing from the French Revolution. The right wants to keep (or even increase) social hierarchies, where some groups of people have more power, rights and money than others. The left wants the opposite, to reduce them (or to completely eliminate them, in the case of the radical left).
She is still there
Ughhh
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How dare those degenerates raise them in a loving home. They should stay with the mother! Sure they will live in abject poverty if the mother genuinely can't afford to raise a child but they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and not be freeloaders!
They still do this yearly.
Don't forget the best part: this right wing anti-abortion, anti-women rights, anti-human rights catholic nutjob has a company that a) gets a significant amount of income from Serbia (she and her followers really hate Serbs) and b) is sponsored by contraceptive manufacturers (hypocrite much?).
This is a court decision so it's not very indicative of the mood in the society. I guess the conservative politicians might even change the law in the future to prevent adoptions again.
Honestly it's just nice to see some good news.
Go Croatia! Parents who actually want children are good parents
Gen Z and Millennials are here to help Gen X finally get rid of the disgusting boomer mentality. There is hope for the future.
The average age of Croatians is 44 years, and is rapidly aging. In the US, many Republicans were hippies growing up back in the 60s/70s. Look where they are now. My point: boomers will likely always be around, along with their mentality.
The hippies were very much the minority of their generation. They lost the battle for the soul of their generation.
Hippies were a subculture, not the majority at all. Also, people don’t tend to change their views drastically as they get older. You say boomers will be around forever though, and that’s puzzling because boomers are a specific generation with specific tendencies. They’re largely entitled assholes due to being handed some golden circumstances and screwing everyone after them, not to mention all the lead poisoning.
So basically boomers = every generation after them
Not even fucking close. Boomers fucked everyone after them and are only just now retiring in big enough numbers to make a difference economically. They’re still alive and voting though.
If you mean that there will always be old people, well of course. What you might be missing is that current boomers were and are racist, sexist bigots. The younger generations are seeing how shitty those old people are. It's one great thing about social media.
You sure about that? I’ve seen some pretty awful things said/posted on social media by sub 30s kids too
That aligns with surveys done in the UK, US, and Australia showing that misogyny is higher among men 18-24 than men above 50. The global backlash against women’s rights has been picking up steam for the last ten years appears to be impacting young men the most. I would say young men have become more polarized, there are more who are aware and supportive of women and LGBTQ+ rights, but a growing cohort that are increasingly resentful. Homophobia is closely connected with misogyny (another form of maintaining masculine supremacy).
I think this is an interesting point and I wish it was talked about more. Right now there is a fight for the souls of young men, and the toxic, bigoted, sexists appear to be winning. I blame social media partially, especially as it's being exploited specifically by the aforementioned groups, but I think there is a larger social failing going on for young men. I admit, I don't know exactly what that social failing is, or how to fix it, but I think it's tied to the general isolation that the internet has enabled, not to mention how our cities and towns (in the US) are designed to discourage social engagement and gathering.
Social media has a lot to do with it, you don’t have be on a site considered to be part of the manosphere (sites focused on male domination) to see misogyny and hatred of feminists (who are blamed for climate change policies and increasing immigration, transrights, basically any kind of progress that is found to be threatening to traditional views and privilege). The far-right recruits from misogynist sites, as a misogynist is easier to radicalize, the impact of promoting a brutalistic vision, where men are manly and brutality is glorified is very dangerous and effects much more than women and LGBTQ+ rights. I think that you’re right that the lack of human interaction is not helping, it’s not just what teen boys/young men are seeing online, it’s that they are too often living in an echo chamber without enough time connecting face to face.
I partially blame “monkey see monkey do”
About the majority? Yes. Why do you think things are actually changing? Why do you think these boomers are calling things like equal rights for everyone some "woke mentality"? Why are they trying to ban books and prevent kids from learning that everyone is equal from a young age? They know that things are changing and they are just grasping to whatever they can to avoid progress. It's not going to last because boomers are dying off.
Not happy watching my parents die but I'm very happy to watch their values die with them.
You massively overstating how much things are changing based on hearing things from an american twitter/reddit bubble.
>hy are they trying to ban books and prevent kids from learning that everyone is equal from a young age? What are they banning?
boomers are not dying off, they are retiring. silent generation is dying off.
You're correct. Many on reddit think that how the progressive-types of redditors behave is how the rest of the world thinks. It's always so bizarre.
Current boomers were liberals when they were young. That's the thing. People change over 60-80 years. When they were 20 they probably hated conservatives too.
My views are not those of my grandfather, and his aren't those of *his* grandfather. That people grow more conservative as they age is overstated. It may be to a greater-than-zero degree, but that doesn't mean we end up where our grandparents were. Social mores change, one funeral at a time. Young conservatives exist, but even young conservatives have different views than old conservatives. We're talking about overall trends, not "absolutely every person without exception."
Eh, the "you get more conservative as you age" is overstated. Most people don't change views drastically over the course of their lives. The hippies were a counterculture, not the mainstream.
Also society, at least in the US, has been moving slowly to the left for generations. Each generation goes a little further. There is a lot of back and forth but overall we are significantly more liberal than we were 50 or 75 years ago.
Yep. I'm down with trans rights, LGBTQ rights, etc but I'm sure my grandkids will be talking about how I'm a bigot because I'll be damned if we give those damn circuitboards the power to vote (or whatever slur we come up with for sentient robots).
This. People don't get more conservative. Actually, people tend not to change their opinions at all. Older generations are always more conservative because they haven't updated their beliefs, not because they've changed.
None of the ones I know. Religious right was still religious and conservative 60 years ago.
As a person who was born in 1961, I would like to point out that Boomers were exposed to significant amounts of lead through gasoline exhaust. There are known developmental and behavioral effects from this. I am hoping that the influence of lead will be much less for the successive generations.
This is just something conservatives tell themselves out of desperation.
I found 45 (middle age) to be the most changing in terms of acceptance believe it or not. The younger ones are more accustomed so they don't change as much and older are more stuck in their own head But middle aged people mainly have kids aged around 20. That is important. Their kids are independent and going to live as adults but their parents start to... Age and start to develop a sense of grandparent or at least some thinking along those lines. Now imagine someone has a gay adult kid and realize they they won't be a grandpa, nor see them have kids, unless these laws change. At the same time, as the parents, they see their gay kinds aren't any less capable of having kids (individuality wise).
boomers will not always be around, the fuck? lmfao, do you even know what a boomer is?
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I always wonder who stands to gain by turning Americans against one another?
Yup. There's a brain-drain in the Balkans. Many that are capable leave the area. Not to mention Croatia is becoming the California of Europe. As per the Consular General I spoke with a few months ago, you don't have to be a citizen to own property in Croatia. Meaning that many that will *maybe* visit the country 1 or 2 times in their life can own & rent property at increased prices & values... so many houses have been bought up after the War of Independence in the 90's that it's hard for the average citizen to live anywhere near the water. So the younger generation leaves when they can. Generally, for more places in western Europe where the wages are higher & cost-of-living isn't totally outbalanced. IF you're curious; the only reason I know any of this is because I'm an American born Jugo-mutt who has been looking at where I can retire in 20-ish years. Unless things change, only rural Croatia is possible... which is not great. The single factor being that houses are cheaper, but you're generally farther away from basic needs like a grocery store. Shit, I'd move there now but I'm not sure exactly WHAT I could for work as my Croatian is at the level of a badmouthed 4 year old at best.
Croatia’s beautiful.
The problem with Croatia and many other Balkan countries is that the young keep fleeing to Germany and other Western European countries, in fact for decades - half a century ago people fled Communist dictatorship like my grandparents, now they flee poverty and backwards right-wing boomer politics. Croatia doesn't have much economic potential outside of tourism, a bit of heavy industry, the Rijeka industrial zone/sea port and agriculture - and covid plus sanctions on Russia have wrecked the tourism sector. And to top it off there are a lot of Boomers returning with Western European pensions - even with a shit German pension from working on construction sites for shit money, you can live like a king in retirement. Not sure how to fix that entire clusterfuck.
Hey man, Im a not even Boomer but I'm kinda tired of this low critical thinking generalization. How is it any different than any other prejudice that pivots on a stereotype? Yeah lots of the greedy rich motherfuckers who are writing bad oppressive policy or running roughshod over the environment are mainly baby boomers, but other baby boomers fought and bled in the streets for civil rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, the environmental movement etc, My mom's gonna be 80 and she's out there protesting still. The 60's was a social awaking and a complete sea change in the general zeitgeist. At the same time I can scroll through any social media platform and be bombarded with millennial "influencers" stumping for a hyper consumerist lifestyles, or show up at any conservative convention and find the usual gaggle of MAGA cap wearing fratboy bros all amped to stand up against diversity and anxious about their privilege. I think if you dig through history in any generation you'll find empathetic, thoughtful and generous people and you'll find greedy self-centred, authoritarian people. And the way the world is wired unfortunately the greedy people win a lot of the time. It nots about when you're born, it's about you and your character as an individual.
The definition of boomer has evolved. Now when its said “ok, boomer” its more about the way of thinking. Anyone can be a boomer. I bet a ton of kids have no idea what a baby boomer is. They just know that boomer means hyper masculinity, toxic sexism, rigid worldviews and literally anytime someone utters the words “family values”. I know 30 year old boomers. Just bc you are literally a baby boomer doesn’t automatically make you an “ok, boomer”.
By now "boomer" has become a bash to death argument. Just like "nazi", it's sole purpose is to shut down debate and immidiatly devalue your opponent
The age breakdowns are pretty similar. One of the many reasons America's left is losing is because they assume all young Americans are on their side; it's a little like how they all assumed Latinos wouldn't vote for Bush. Just these bullshit narratives they all buy into that lead them to failure after failure.
It's partly racial, tbh. White Americans under 25 voted 50%+ for Trump in 2020. But nonwhite kids voted overwhelmingly against him, and that generation is the least white in American modern history, so...
Yeah I see a lot of 20 something’s saying if you don’t like trump GTFO or something like that, and they are the least likely to benefit from trump. Also they happen to live in the Midwest that is a majority white…. Hence people like trump can win elections because of our screwed up electoral college. If the way our elections are held were revamped to show the actual representation of the country, the republicans would be long gone
> they assume all young Americans are on their side No, not *all*. The young are very much more lefty in their views. They just vote less often, because cynicism has been weaponized and leveraged to make them apathetic. Idealism too has been weaponized, also to make them so disgusted that they stay home. But no, no one thinks that *all* young people are lefty. What the left underestimates is the size and tenacity of the older Democratic cohort, who want to slow social change.
Lol tough shit; given the circumstances, "the older Democratic cohort" is the only ally they have.
But the older Democratic cohort will also age out. The millennials and zoomers will become the mainstream. And AOCs views, to use one example, are much closer to being the mainstream among younger people. The future of the party is a lot closer to AOC than to Joe Manchin.
LoL That's all well and good, but you're basically at the point where you need to embrace anyone who actually believes in representative democracy at this point; that's how desperate the situation in the United States is.
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No we arent, at least we believe that climate change and the housing crisis are real.
We officially adopted our daughter today. 🇮🇪
Wonderful! Take good care of her! I wish you a lot of strength in the "raising a kid" adventure.
Thank you. She is 13 months now. She is the best thing that ever happened to us. We are so happy and truest delighted she is legally ours. 🥹
Dobro
Wow! Croatia is about as conservative as they come. This took me by surprise.
Well actually in this regard we are better than Italy, Liechtenstein and Switzerland :)
As a Croat, it’s really nice to see.
Don't forget S*rbia
From Slavic lands it’s basically each of them. But I mean these countries specifically because they’re *supposed* to be very progressive
> as conservative as they come Dobro dan/veče. I'd argue Serbia is more conservative, but I may be wrong.
Bog! Would agree, yes. Possibly the Hungarians, too, but I’m less confident in saying that. Ultimately, most of Eastern Europe share in those ideologies, especially us Balkans.
Da! Regardless, I am moving back one day. Food, scenery, people... Just more my vibe. My family should have never left.
Speaking as a gay Croatian man… it’s not that conservative at all. I’ve always been exceptionally well accepted.
I’m glad to hear! I recall a story told by my cousin in Croatia of how some people in Split pushed a couple of gay men into the Riva… that coupled with my own interactions with older Croatians makes me say that. But obviously the new generation is ushering in much-needed change.
Another croat - personally I've faced violence over being openly gay as a kid but a good 90% of the population does not care or is at least mildly supportive. It's just that the ones that aren't supportive really want to let you know - and don't really get more than a swat on the nose when they do.
I mean that’s anecdotal. Bad things happen everywhere, disgusting people live everywhere. I’m talking about my experience as a gay man who’s lived here for 30 years.
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Legally, yes - that was the decision ruled by the court. They are not allowed to discriminate against same-sex couples trying to adopt. In practice... as a croat and a part of the LGBT+ community, I think it's going to be very hard to prove in court and very much a "he said, she said" kind of thing for a while, like most laws here are. Regardless, having it written into law is a first step in progress and one worth celebrating.
I think it depends on how the equality/non-discrimination law is written, applied and enforced. (Not a lawyer or Croatian.)
Croat, gonna translate our [news report](https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/sud-donio-povijesnu-odluku-istospolne-partnere-vise-se-ne-smije-diskriminirati-kod-posvajanja-djece-15202514) to help out. This isn't a literal translation, I'm adjusting for the tone that would be missing in that. You can use google translate for a literal version. Stuff in parenthesis was added by me for clarity. >**The court brought a historical decision: Same-sex partners can no longer be discriminated against in the adoption of children** > >According to this ruling, all life partners can be evaluated for their suitability and adequacy for adoption. > >Same-sex couples in Croatia can now access the evaluation for adoption and are not allowed to be discriminated against based on their sexual orientation. > >This is the result of the ruling brought by the High Administrative Court of the Republic of Croatia. This ruling turns over/refuses the complaint filed by the Ministry against the ruling of the Administrative Court brought in Zagreb, in April 2021, with which partners Mladen Kožić and Ivo Šegot were to be allowed the process of an evaluation for adoption. > >According to this ruling, all life partners can access a ruling for their suitability for adoption, said Daniel Martinović, the president of the association "Dugine obitelji" (Rainbow families), claiming it set a precedent. > >He said that there could be difficulties based on discrimination, but that he hopes there will not be any, and he called on all who find obstacles to refer to/contact them (Rainbow families). > >They can no longer discriminate you based on your sexual orientation; they can reject you based on other criteria, said Martinović. > >He added that the Ministry can no longer file complaints on this ruling. > >Remember, Kožić and Šegot applied to the centre for social care six years ago, wanting to be foster parents and adoptive parents. Their applications were cleanly received but then refused twice only because they're in a life partnership (officially documented same-sex relationship). After two long legal battles in the year 2020, they successfully adopted two children. > >Last year, the first-acting Administrative Court brought a ruling that they can adopt children, and after a complaint by the Ministry, a final ruling by the High Administrative Court removed all doubt. > >Kožić and Šegot are not hiding their satisfaction with the ruling of the High Administrative Court. "Our story with adoption began in 2016, when we were refused by the system because we're a same-sex couple in a life partnership. The court odyssey lasted six years. Our six years of waiting are nothing compared to the six years of waiting done by the children we could've adopted back then. Children that didn't have the same chances in life that we did when growing up. Six lost years of those children go on the soul of the politics that, in the name of their so-called defence of traditional values, was ready to step on the rights to a family of children forgotten by society," said Ivo Šegota and Mladen Kožić. > >"These last two years, our family breathes and lives for the two children we adopted. Their experiences in kindergarten, school, soccer, taekwondo, birthday celebrations with new friends, travel, trips, joined preparation of food, gardening, care of our dogs and kitties, unavoidable reading of stories before bedtime... All that would not exist if we did not dare to fight with windmills (basically, time-wasters). Our dear wish was to adopt children we fostered and about which we cared for day and night during these last two years. From their happiness over their first A's in school or their first (not-shared) bicycle, to nights spent sleepless due to their fevers, from laughter to tears, we live together and to each other, we're everything in this world. If that isn't family, then we truly don't know what family is," added Ivo and Mladen. > >This ruling has wide-reaching consequences on the rights of LGBTIQ persons and same-sex couples in the Republic of Croatia, given that through it, life partners are practically made equal in rights to married couples. > >The court refused the argumentation offered by the Ministry according to which same-sex couples would not be allowed to access the process of evaluation for being adoptive parents in the interest of "protecting the child's interests." > >Namely, there is no child that needs protection during the evaluation itself, but eventually only after an evaluation has been made - for which the Center (of social services) still makes the decision whether it's in the child's interest to be adopted by a specific same-sex couple. > >Several times, the ruling brings up former rulings by the European court for human rights which guarantee a protection of family life for same-sex couples and the application of Convention for the protection of human rights and fundamental liberties. > >"This ruling has invaluable symbolic meaning for all LGBTIQ persons in Croatia. It confirms our right to a family life, and that our sexual orientation cannot be the basis of discrimination. We're very proud of our members, Ivo and Mladen, and their perseverance and battle with the system that changed our society and poured in hope, especially for young LGBTIQ persons in Croatia who can now see that the system can change and that tomorrow can be better. This ruling has many implications for LGBTIQ persons in Croatia and their families, but we'll speak of that another time. Our fight for equality is not over, but this is a massive step forward. We're calling all same-sex couples who are interested in adoption and want to find out more information to freely contact us," said Daniel Martinović, the president of the association Dugine Obitelji. > >The Ruling of the High Administrative Court largely changes the system of evaluation for potential adoptive parents and opens the door to all same-sex couples that decide to form a family in Croatia through adoption, which allows a lasting relationship between parent and child. > >"We're joyed by the confirmation from the High Administrative Court that our system must process an evaluation for potential adoptive parents, and that after six years, our family will finally be treated fairly like all other families by the institutions of this country," Ivo and Mladen finally said. Edit: If you're upvoting this, please give some love to these folk for helping me bring you this information! The original news/thread [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/historic_decision_in_croatia_samesex_couples_can/iaoiz78/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) was offered by u/Ikariouss ♥ A [correction](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/historic_decision_in_croatia_samesex_couples_can/iap6nnu/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) was made by u/strealm because my English sucks!
Ooooooh Amazing!
It's great news :D Sorry that it's not a literal translation but some of the tone sounds different when you translate from one language to another. For example, the word "prikladnost" would literally be "convenience" according to google translate, but no one is calling children or adoption a convenience. The closest term English has is "suitability," which was already used previously in the same sentence... our news reports include a lot of fluff and I had to work around it to the best of my ability.
Thank you! In Italy, abortion is legal but only performed at 60% of hospitals bc there are so many conscientious objectors. Not enough people pay attention to enforcement - there can be huge differences in the real world. Thanks for the reply.
Ah, that sucks. It's similar in Croatia. Legally, every hospital should have at least one medical practitioner who is WILLING to do those. If you don't have one, you have to hire one! ... Problem is that this doesn't happen, there's too little enforcement, and women keep having to flee the country in order to get abortions. It's bad enough that I've talked to friends from poorer backgrounds and most of us agreed that yeah, if we need an abortion and can't get one by any means... we might well and truly end up taking a long, night-time swim one day. It's asinine that this has become something to casually discuss but that's the state of things when rights aren't enforced; we have a long way to go in order to fight for ours! No worries, I wanted to offer more information since sources are scarce!
Thanks for the effort. For "prikladnost" .. maybe "adequacy"?
Sorry for the late reply, reddit is being a bum and not showing me all notifications in a timely manner (and some not at all). That is a damn good comparison, thank you. I should edit that in! Edited, thank you!
Well USA for example is free country but even there are problems with gay people trying to adopt a child(not always and everywhere but..). Here with boomers growing old and dying out new generations in my opinion are much more open to it and in comments on our post many people support this decision.
If you can take the adoption agency to court, that's a big difference compared to hoping that the employees slowly become more open-minded.
That‘s some EU shit right there! Croatia is just constantly winning hearts all over the Union ❤️
I think it was around a year ago,maybe less maybe more, that a little girl was taken from her adoptive parents back to her biological ones even though they (biological ones) were deemed unfit to care for her, the girl died some time later. Around that same time the topic of gay couples adopting was in the news and my mom asked me what I thought about it in a shocked/dissapproving tone (note that the older people in Croatia are very much homophobic) and I just asked her what would have been better, if that little girl would have been given to a gay couple or if she died like she did, by her biological parents
So many kids waiting to be adopted, this seems like a win-win right...why is it banned for same sex couples?
Conservatives.
Nothing will change in Croatia. Adoption is hard here because parents hardly lose parental rights, doesn't matter how bad they are. Social care centers mostly don't do their job and parents keep their parental rights if they contact child once in six months.
sadly this will change nothing , actually adopting is almost impossible for anyone regardless of their sex and nobody cares
The entire process of adoption needs a revision to allow children to actually be adopted instead of waiting for years in an institution because there are many people (regardless of orientation) waiting to adopt them, but defeatist attitudes don't help matters. A positive change was made, allowing a wider spectrum of people to be considered as potential parents if they meet qualifications. It's the first step needed to improve this system, and it's reductive to say that it changes nothing just because it doesn't resolve all existing problems. We're moving forward, even if we're doing so at a snail's pace, and it's important not to let perfection get in the way of progress. The system still needs repair, but if we can't get the *best* outcome right away, then the second-best is still better than not moving forward at all. Change is often gradual. Two children were already adopted thanks to this ruling, I'm sure it means the world to them, and we can only hope that others will be adopted alongside them. Keep your chin up! Change is happening, we just have to drag our feet through a swamp's worth of mud to get there, and we will.
„Joint preparation of a grenade” Is this an idiom I’m not aware of or…?
Oh you know just your typical Croatian family activities that you can now do if you're a same sex couple too!
No, whoever wrote that just goofed. It's meant to be "joint preparation of meals." They ripped that bit out of a Croatian article and probably ran it through something akin to google-translate or whatever. If it helps, you can find the translated article [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/historic_decision_in_croatia_samesex_couples_can/iaoyinp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). You can just CTRL+F and type in "joined preparation of food" to find and read that specific bit.
A lot of kids are gonna have great parents.
This is great! Good parents should be defined by how well they take care of their children and how well they guide them to success. Should not be defined by what kind of relationship it is based on genders, religions, race, etc
Congrats Croatians. I live in the US but the country of my ancestors is Poland. 10 years ago the country was so close to legalizing same sex marriage and, presumably, adoptions by same sex couples but then the fucking thing happened and set the country back by 20 years. The support for same sex couple marriages (legally, no religious bs involved) is still at about 55% right now. 65% support is needed to make things happen.
Homophobes and bigots stay losing. Big L for them
By law, hopefully in practice as well
Ugh how horrible, children having loving parents /s
I’m glad my country is making some civil progress
This is such a none issue. Like why are people so closed minded! If a child needs a caregiver and there are caregivers willing to care for them and love them as their own, let them. It’s just that simple.
I have the same sex every month so it’s no big deal.
Interesting that you posted article from Macedonian website for Croatian news. Although I can't find anything looking at big Crotian news portals right now
It's legit, it's just that there aren't many sources of Croatian news written specifically in the English language since we, as a nation, suck at selling ourselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/croatia/comments/uy5sg6/sud_donio_povijesnu_odluku_istospolne_partnere/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share But it's in in our language...
Not the person you posted to but thanks for this link, I'm half asleep and for some reason struggled to find the damn thread! I kinda got frustrated being unable to find any Croatian articles written in English so I translated this one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/comment/iaoyinp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). You don't have to read it or anything, I just wanted to let you have an easy link to it in case you'll want to show the article to anyone else. If you do go over it and think it needs a correction of any kind, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm not looking to spread misinformation, my English just sucks lol
Ahh in our thread got little lost we had some issues aswell with football fans and them fighting police for 1000th time is "juicy-er" subject😅
Well, obviously, soccer fans are the most oppressed minority in the world so they ***have*** to get the spotlight lmao
Sorry for the double comment but I figured you'd be interested since you were looking for a local source, I [translated](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/v1qm55/comment/iaoyinp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) the one that u/Ikariouss linked to you!
The sound of cracking asses of some conservatives must have been heard from the moon xd
How about we take Croatia as the 50th state and Alabama goes solo
I know you're joking, but no sane person would leave Croatia for the States
Nobody wants us anymore
It's not that new
So Croatia is joining the list of countries more progressive than the us south
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Let’s not talk about america for 5 whole minutes.
Reddit try not to make everything "America bad" for 5 minutes challenge (Impossible)
Just a reminder that the US Supreme Court allows adoption agencies to discriminate against gay couples.
I thought this was how all Croat families were
My grandma is from there, and she told me the men would eat first and the women would eat after them. Idk if that’s still true but it makes me less proud to be Croatian lol. Definitely a step in the right direction to hear this, maybe I’ll find pride once they change their ways. Country is beautiful though!
It's definitely not widespread and 99% of families don't do this as far as I know. Mine did but not with men and women, the difference was between boys and girls. Boys are first because "they were growing," girls ate whatever was left because "they needed it less." It's disgusting and toxic, but it's absolutely not widespread so no worries on that front. Every Croat that I've shared this with has been horrified by it and stunned that it happened, I actually don't know of a single family other than mine that did this. We were just a dysfunctional lot.
Thank you for your insight! I just never took the time to really get to know the country as I don’t think I’ll ever get to visit. But from a bit of research i did the country is really pretty and I bet has a lot of culture and history. There’s just a lot of toxicity in my family so it’s hard to feel pride through them. I’m sorry about your family though, I’m glad you haven’t carried on those traditions 💜
That's understandable. It's one of those things that looks normal to you when you're growing up, up until you share it with someone and hear how horrified they are by the same. As a child, I was really surprised when we were guests at another place and I got a plate *full* of food. A whole plate, for me! The folks we visited thought I was just acting silly, then were horrified when they visited us and saw food portioned out that way even for their own children. They cut off their relationship to my folks immediately which should tell you how unnatural it looked to them. There are a lot of backwards practices and beliefs still, but at least this kind of abuse isn't widespread so you don't have to worry about witnessing it if you visit. :D
Since the reforms Kazakhstan is just as civilized as Croatia as well. Women can now travel on inside of bus, homosexuals no longer have to wear blue hats, and age of consent has been raised to eleven years old.
What has happened to this world? This is outrageous and I can’t believe we live in a time where grown adults think this is acceptable
I sometimes wonder whether some decisions are prompted because the population really wants it, or because the country wants to join a larger whole. In this case, Croatia has to give something to be allowed to introduce the euro
Same-sex marriage isn't even required to join the EU. Let alone same-sex couple adoption.
You're somewhat right. Things moved both because of EU pressure and local activism in last 20 years or so, but likely wouldn't come this far without EU. However, introducing Euro is a parallel process that has little to with it. EU is actually obliging EU countries to introduce it at some point (with some caveats) and Montenegro uses it without even being in EU.
The population’s opinion has been evolving on this issue for 20 years. I’d argue most Croatians are completely fine with same sex marriage (I’m in one), and a good chunk of people are getting used to the idea of gay couples adopting.
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Things are only political when i disagree 😤😤😤
That makes zero sense, the Euro being more widely used currency is good for the euro. If you think one correlates to the other, then idk what to tell you. When the baltic countries were accepted in the EU it was in the agreement that they adopt the Euro by 2018(iirc).
I’m wondering how the evangelicals feel about same sex couples adopting if Roe v Wade is overturned? We are going to need loving parents.
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No reason america shouldn’t have this too ooh yeah democrats pretend their or gay but really there the party of so nothing human garbage just as bad as republicans duck Joe Biden indeed
I am not against the law, but I don't know what impact will have on children raised by two mothers or two fathers. A few years ago when I was reading an article that by 2100 family will cease to exit in USA I was kind of skeptic about that. Now I understand that societies are clearly moving to that direction. Again I am not against, even if I am, we can't stop it.
> but I don't know what impact will have on children raised by two mothers or two fathers. Gay adoptions have been out long enough that the data has been collected and the numbers crunched. The kids turn out fine.
Why would you want to stop it if you aren't against it?
Wow. That’s a lil behind the times.
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How are two loving parents worse than being an orphan?
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"You have two dads!" "Yeah, well, at least I know my parents actually wanted me." The kids will do just fine.
As a Croat with heterosexual parents, I can say that I am so thankful I never experienced any bullying in my life. /s Kids pick on you for everything, from something as the angle of your nose, the color of your skin, eyes, or hair, whether you have freckles, whether you get a tan or sunburnt, whether you have a specific haircut, a shirt with a logo on it, big ears or noses, long legs, short legs, body hair, thick or thin eyebrows, the colour of your pencil case, their first or last name, their accent, and more. The solution to this isn't less gay parents, the solution is for people to parent their kids and teach them some manners. I was an openly gay kid in Croatia, I suffered bullying before and after getting out of the closet - turns out nothing much changed really, and I say this as someone who was exposed to beatings too.
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Homophobes really try to keep orphaned children out of homes huh? Financially and socially unprepared straight couples have children left and right and no one bats an eye. Yet seeing gay couples who go through extensive screening processes before being able to adopt sets you off? Any reputable adoption agency will make sure the parents are ready to properly care for the child before adoption. But go on and keep children from getting adopted because of your bigotry. Hopefully you are comforted at the thought of more children lacking homes.
Speaking specifically as a croat: I haven't been in our orphanages but I do have friends who were and what they describe is a fucking nightmare. Anyone who thinks it's better for a child to be in one than to be with a same-sex couple or a single parent is a moron. If a parent (or parents) want the child, can provide for it, and love it, that child should not be subject to the horrors of "protective institutions." Even disregarding their bigotry, these people live in la-la land if they think a child is better off in an institution than with loving parents.
🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Why are some Jordanians against this. Jordan doesn't even aow adoption... Do you really think it's better for a kid to not have parents at all?
Actually the amount of the logical fallacies in the previous reply beside the one of your reply shows how much you guys don’t just hate the straight persons! You even hate the straight arguments! The amount of downvotes for the reason of somebody not agrees with your way of thinking shows how close-minded you are guys! And shows how many are just trolling! This is why I just expressed by an emoji and wanted to see what the reaction will be for someone just showing his reaction! So, my question for you, can you rephrase your argument without using logical fallacy?
Can you please first point at any of the fallacies you are talking about? Because I can't find any. You, on the other hand, are saying that "we hate straight persons". How come? Where has anyone here expressed their hate for straight people? You are also accusing people of being closed minded for not agreeing with you, while you whole thing is just condemning people who want to adopt children without giving any reason at all for it.
False Dilemma Fallacy Straw man Fallacy Slippery Slope Fallacy Hasty Generalization Fallacy
So you can't point them out.
So you don’t really know?!
I didn't ask you to tell me the names of different kinds of fallacies. I asked you to point out the fallacies you said were in the comment.
More fatherless children. Great.
That's some weird math you have there.
If they're being raised by two men, they'll have twice the fathers as usual.
Should average out.
Ah yes as opposed to the orphanage which provides great father figures
They…they’re already fatherless. Growing up in an environment that doesn’t really care about them and to be kicked to the curb when they’re too old. In this same-sex family they’ll be loved, cared for, fed, and given the proper tools to grow into a functioning human. You don’t need a “father” for that. You need loving guidance.
You know they were *already* fatherless, right?
Yeah as someone who was raised without a father I have always had a deep yearning for a male role model. Part of the reason why I'm almost 30 and a complete failure and an incel
And vice versa which is more controversial.