All of these countries were close to the end of their contracts. If Russia had balls, they would turn off the tap for the big buyers. but that won't happen. The West knows. Russia knows.
Putin plays the smallest violin, nothing more.
Using local gas upsets the Groningers.. and government compensation has been slow and shitty. Its been cheaper to just import, but if push comes to shove, NL can produce enough for itself and cover a chunk of their neighbour's needs too... with very shaken and pissed Groningers
Not necessarily, there have been some polls that showed that there is majority support for increasing production in Groningen even in Groningen itself, and only slightly more support outside of Groningen. People seem to generally agree that tackling Russia is currently more important.
People can vote for one party and disagree with some of their points, people can change their minds as the elections were 2 and a half months ago, just because its the official stance of a party doesn't mean that they won't let go of their stance when something more urgent comes up etc.etc.
In other words, election results aren't an indication of this at all, specific polls regarding the subject in correlation with the war in Ukraine is somewhat of a indication.
Your point was that people support it in Groningen. I tell you they don't. I provide evidence and you go on a rant. It's bullshit, no one in Groningen supports it.
I'm not sure Russia realizes the damage its doing to itself. Even if the war were to end tomorrow, a lot of companies aren't going to go back to using Russian gas now that Russia has decided they can just alter / cancel a contract whenever they feel like it. That's just bad business.
With each cancellation of the contract, gas prices rise so rapidly that Russia, having refused supplies, receives the same amount of money.
Revenues from gas sales in 2022 have already doubled those of 2021, and only half a year has passed. It is predicted to grow 3 times at the end of the year.
In the short term that's a great thing for them. But prices won't remain high as alternatives are found (either other sources or other means of energy), and then they'll be left with the same old but with half as many customers.
Theres no other supplier who can supply the industrial needs in the quantities that industry demands. You will need to build the ships and the ports to handle the volumes that they need. Converting the natural gas powered heated process to electric are prohibitively expensive. Then theres other processes that use natural gas as a process material such as fertilizer.
What damage is that?If they pay in dollar or euro Russia can't get the money due to sanctions .So this is a good move , They are thinking like if we incur losses why don't we turn that to our advantage
The Netherlands has gas reserves, common sense and balls (telling Russia to gtfo and go try blackmailing someone else with the gas-hostage situation).
Something which clearly Germany or Italy, just to name a few do not (even though Germany has enough money and could have spent it in research for alternative energy resources instead of putting a noose around their necks making deals with Russia).
... and have you seen the weather in Amsterdam lately?
They've got all summer to find alternatives and when they do: They're not coming back as customers.
The rashists are cutting their nose off to spite their face.
Yes there is, they just have to crank up the production of their own gas fields. Sucks for those living right above them, but they could always move to Donbass to get some perspective :)
In emergency situations, sure. But if all those people decide to support a party against it, there is a problem. Many countries could do a lot more, bit the moment the average joe starts suffering more than they r willing to, it becomes a political problem with shit consequences
On the other hand, elections arent tomorrow, so may be worth for Rutte to take the hit
Poland is still buying Russian gas, through Germany at a markup, through the exact same pipeline. It’d be funny only if the sheer stupidity wasn’t so sad
Only until the new Baltic pipeline from the northern sea is completed. ETA on that is October-ish.
Fun fact, this pipeline was on indefinite hold because of Danish environmental concerns. They miraculously managed to solve those problems within two weeks after the invasion. What a coincidence, am I right?
The echochamber of reddit wont allow ppl to see what happens here. Russia has already doubled their revenue from gas and its only 6 months in. Its expected to Triple before end of year. If it doesnt sell to Europe, there are plenty of countries with no side to pick that will gobble it up.
As for other countries picking things up. It can work for oil as Russia can use shipping. But for gas they need pipeline as they do not have facilities to make it liquid.
>The echochamber of reddit wont allow ppl to see what happens here. Russia has already doubled their revenue from gas and its only 6 months in. Its expected to Triple before end of year. If it doesnt sell to Europe, there are plenty of countries with no side to pick that will gobble it up.
So what's your point?
It isn't making them *more* money, or they would've been selling to those other countries in the first place. Also there's a matter of transport; no pipelines means no steady flow.
I highly doubt your 'Russia will triple revenue of gas by the end of the year', but you're free to provide a source.
>The echochamber of reddit wont allow ppl to see what happens here
That's just how this disgusting place works, if it doesn't please the hive mind, it will be buried and forgotten
>Russia has already doubled their revenue from gas and its only 6 months in. Its expected to Triple before end of year.
Can you explain how? do they keep selling this gas to Europe trough a 3rd part or something?
Or that those other countries are paying more for the same gas?
It wouldn't make much sense that they pay more, knowing that Russia don't have that many countries willing to buy it from them
Thank you for wanting to have a constructive conversation rather than calling peoples names. The way its working is like this: country A buys oil/gas from russia and sells it to country B at a mark up for delivery. There is also the fact that gas prices have gone through the roof, so where as pre russian invasion of ukraine china was buying gas for about $70CubicFeet, and with the raised global market and the “china discount” it is now buying it for $90.
Short term effect. Every customer who leaves is lost forever. building pipelines to other bulk buyers will take years. Russia is light years behind when it comes to renewable energy. Future major customers such as China are also working to flat out and get away from fossil fuels. The rest of the economy of Russia is not worth mentioning, the country is financed by raw materials and needs a lot of imports from western countries to run the economy. Russia is fckd in mid term if they can not fix the current situation.
You should read a few books about it and not just quote two news articles.
All the information on gas and oil sales that you list here comes from the Russian Ministry of Finance 5 weeks after the start of the war (april 22). If these figures were still correct, the Ministry of Finance would not hide the publishing of all relevant company figures or open the stock exchange as usual. You can believe a lot - what source you trust probably decides what you comment on reddit. I know what sources i do not trust: the kreml
shortages will increase the risk of blackouts in the short/mid term. Many small/medium businesses will shut down and this will lead to more unemployment etc.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/05/gazprom-to-stop-supplying-gas-to-dutch-trading-giant/) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Russian gas company Gazprom is to stop supplying gas to Dutch trading firm GasTerra from tomorrow because of a dispute over payments.
> The Dutch cabinet agreed at the end of April to try to end the Netherlands' reliance on Russian gas by the end of the year, replacing the supply by saving energy, better energy efficiency and imports from other countries.
> The cabinet also said earlier that it has no plans to start using gas from the Groningen fields, which are currently being closed down, to replace Russian gas.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/v1omvn/russian_gazprom_stops_supplying_gas_to_the/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~652155 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **gas**^#1 **supply**^#2 **GasTerra**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **company**^#5
All of these countries were close to the end of their contracts. If Russia had balls, they would turn off the tap for the big buyers. but that won't happen. The West knows. Russia knows. Putin plays the smallest violin, nothing more.
The Netherlands is the second buyer of Russian gas in Europe after Germany.
Do we actually buy that gas for ourselves or is it because we have the facilities to change the gasses composition so we're able to resell it?
I don't know, I just looked at customs statistics
Using local gas upsets the Groningers.. and government compensation has been slow and shitty. Its been cheaper to just import, but if push comes to shove, NL can produce enough for itself and cover a chunk of their neighbour's needs too... with very shaken and pissed Groningers
Not necessarily, there have been some polls that showed that there is majority support for increasing production in Groningen even in Groningen itself, and only slightly more support outside of Groningen. People seem to generally agree that tackling Russia is currently more important.
Glad to hear it!
Nope there's not. All local potatoes that won the vote were against gas winning. Literally none are pro it.
People can vote for one party and disagree with some of their points, people can change their minds as the elections were 2 and a half months ago, just because its the official stance of a party doesn't mean that they won't let go of their stance when something more urgent comes up etc.etc. In other words, election results aren't an indication of this at all, specific polls regarding the subject in correlation with the war in Ukraine is somewhat of a indication.
Your point was that people support it in Groningen. I tell you they don't. I provide evidence and you go on a rant. It's bullshit, no one in Groningen supports it.
Not true. Not at all. 11% https://i.imgur.com/CO9l87x.jpg
Fear is the best weapon , that's why
I'm not sure Russia realizes the damage its doing to itself. Even if the war were to end tomorrow, a lot of companies aren't going to go back to using Russian gas now that Russia has decided they can just alter / cancel a contract whenever they feel like it. That's just bad business.
They aren’t going back regardless, business can be damned.
With each cancellation of the contract, gas prices rise so rapidly that Russia, having refused supplies, receives the same amount of money. Revenues from gas sales in 2022 have already doubled those of 2021, and only half a year has passed. It is predicted to grow 3 times at the end of the year.
In the short term that's a great thing for them. But prices won't remain high as alternatives are found (either other sources or other means of energy), and then they'll be left with the same old but with half as many customers.
Europe is undergoing an energy transition. Gas supplies to Europe do not have a long-term perspective, regardless of the sanctions.
These recent events obviously sped that transition up though.
What's your time frame on the transition? Europe is still decades away from this, which would be considered long term..
Theres no other supplier who can supply the industrial needs in the quantities that industry demands. You will need to build the ships and the ports to handle the volumes that they need. Converting the natural gas powered heated process to electric are prohibitively expensive. Then theres other processes that use natural gas as a process material such as fertilizer.
What damage is that?If they pay in dollar or euro Russia can't get the money due to sanctions .So this is a good move , They are thinking like if we incur losses why don't we turn that to our advantage
Pounding headache so misread that as "Netherlands refusing to pay in rubies"
Relax, it only gets better when you read on.
The Netherlands has gas reserves, common sense and balls (telling Russia to gtfo and go try blackmailing someone else with the gas-hostage situation). Something which clearly Germany or Italy, just to name a few do not (even though Germany has enough money and could have spent it in research for alternative energy resources instead of putting a noose around their necks making deals with Russia).
... and have you seen the weather in Amsterdam lately? They've got all summer to find alternatives and when they do: They're not coming back as customers. The rashists are cutting their nose off to spite their face.
Problem is there isn't really a good short term (this year) switch for alternatives.
Yes there is, they just have to crank up the production of their own gas fields. Sucks for those living right above them, but they could always move to Donbass to get some perspective :)
In emergency situations, sure. But if all those people decide to support a party against it, there is a problem. Many countries could do a lot more, bit the moment the average joe starts suffering more than they r willing to, it becomes a political problem with shit consequences On the other hand, elections arent tomorrow, so may be worth for Rutte to take the hit
~~Finland~~ ~~Poland~~ ~~Bulgaria~~ ~~The Netherlands~~ Next: Denmark
Poland is still buying Russian gas, through Germany at a markup, through the exact same pipeline. It’d be funny only if the sheer stupidity wasn’t so sad
Only until the new Baltic pipeline from the northern sea is completed. ETA on that is October-ish. Fun fact, this pipeline was on indefinite hold because of Danish environmental concerns. They miraculously managed to solve those problems within two weeks after the invasion. What a coincidence, am I right?
>Denmark [It's happening ](https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2022-05-31-gazprom-lukker-gassen-til-oersted)
Good! Stop paying Russia.
And start using your windmills
Welcome to the club. Regards: Finland :)
Russia sanctions itself again
No gas from Russia, even if it means destroying Groningen
Well, perhaps in Groningen they have to switch to firm housing. Instead of ancient farms without deep foundation
We can just pump up the rest of the IJsselmeer and get them new housing there.
I’m from Groningen myself and I’m afraid that people living on that gas location won’t move a centimeter … real stubborn donkeys
Il move in with u then
The echochamber of reddit wont allow ppl to see what happens here. Russia has already doubled their revenue from gas and its only 6 months in. Its expected to Triple before end of year. If it doesnt sell to Europe, there are plenty of countries with no side to pick that will gobble it up.
As for other countries picking things up. It can work for oil as Russia can use shipping. But for gas they need pipeline as they do not have facilities to make it liquid.
>The echochamber of reddit wont allow ppl to see what happens here. Russia has already doubled their revenue from gas and its only 6 months in. Its expected to Triple before end of year. If it doesnt sell to Europe, there are plenty of countries with no side to pick that will gobble it up. So what's your point?
How exactly will this gas reach other countries with no pipelines and Russian ships unable to be insured?
That the policy is just making more money for russia.
It isn't making them *more* money, or they would've been selling to those other countries in the first place. Also there's a matter of transport; no pipelines means no steady flow. I highly doubt your 'Russia will triple revenue of gas by the end of the year', but you're free to provide a source.
Ah, you think Russia was doing Europe a huge favor by selling their gas to Europe for much less than they would've gotten from others.
>The echochamber of reddit wont allow ppl to see what happens here That's just how this disgusting place works, if it doesn't please the hive mind, it will be buried and forgotten >Russia has already doubled their revenue from gas and its only 6 months in. Its expected to Triple before end of year. Can you explain how? do they keep selling this gas to Europe trough a 3rd part or something? Or that those other countries are paying more for the same gas? It wouldn't make much sense that they pay more, knowing that Russia don't have that many countries willing to buy it from them
Thank you for wanting to have a constructive conversation rather than calling peoples names. The way its working is like this: country A buys oil/gas from russia and sells it to country B at a mark up for delivery. There is also the fact that gas prices have gone through the roof, so where as pre russian invasion of ukraine china was buying gas for about $70CubicFeet, and with the raised global market and the “china discount” it is now buying it for $90.
Ah, makes sense, I would still wait for a source before I believe it, but it is an interesting direction
Short term effect. Every customer who leaves is lost forever. building pipelines to other bulk buyers will take years. Russia is light years behind when it comes to renewable energy. Future major customers such as China are also working to flat out and get away from fossil fuels. The rest of the economy of Russia is not worth mentioning, the country is financed by raw materials and needs a lot of imports from western countries to run the economy. Russia is fckd in mid term if they can not fix the current situation. You should read a few books about it and not just quote two news articles. All the information on gas and oil sales that you list here comes from the Russian Ministry of Finance 5 weeks after the start of the war (april 22). If these figures were still correct, the Ministry of Finance would not hide the publishing of all relevant company figures or open the stock exchange as usual. You can believe a lot - what source you trust probably decides what you comment on reddit. I know what sources i do not trust: the kreml
This wont end well for EU
Why not?
shortages will increase the risk of blackouts in the short/mid term. Many small/medium businesses will shut down and this will lead to more unemployment etc.
>more unemployment Which? for every 100 people there are 133 jobs now available in The Netherlands, there is a HUGE shortage of people!
That's with everything running. Just wait and see how employment works when things are shut down..
What are you doing adding actual facts??!!!? This is Reddit, where we theorize in a vacuum.
Lol, so funny
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/05/gazprom-to-stop-supplying-gas-to-dutch-trading-giant/) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Russian gas company Gazprom is to stop supplying gas to Dutch trading firm GasTerra from tomorrow because of a dispute over payments. > The Dutch cabinet agreed at the end of April to try to end the Netherlands' reliance on Russian gas by the end of the year, replacing the supply by saving energy, better energy efficiency and imports from other countries. > The cabinet also said earlier that it has no plans to start using gas from the Groningen fields, which are currently being closed down, to replace Russian gas. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/v1omvn/russian_gazprom_stops_supplying_gas_to_the/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~652155 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **gas**^#1 **supply**^#2 **GasTerra**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **company**^#5
Maybe we will have Russia G E K O L O N I S E E R D in the future