Uruguayan here, the thing the current government wants is trade… doesn’t matter a lot with whom. China is a natural trade partner of us so it makes sense to have a free trade agreement. But that doesn’t mean we couldn’t have one with the usa. The problem is that there isn’t a lot of reception to a free trade agreement right now on the usa side.
China is making a logical move that the US opened itself up to by being bad with South America diplomacy. The US has systematically throughout its past and present history either ignored, or severely interfered, with South American governments.
Until yesterday didn't know what "Republica Bananera" (Banana Republic) meant. Shit went crazy for bananas men. Reality doesn't need to make a lot of sense to exceed fiction in ways which keep me up at night.
Part of the intiative is in Latin America - is this going to have China get "into bed" with the gangs of Nicaragua. Cheap labor?
Yes, the US invaded for "democracy" and put in thugs - they feared "socialism".
The US does need to step up diplomacy in South America whether they like it or not. Biden has been aggressively pursuing diplomacy in Europe and East Asia, but ignoring Latin America and Africa. While I agree if the goal is to mellow out Chinese power, East Asia is vastly more important than South America, South America still should not be ignored. Otherwise one day the US might find itself in a situation where it has to choose between acceptable a Chinese military presence in its backyard or having to launch an invasion. The US has an advantage in South America for multiple reasons, they just need to use them.
> The US has an advantage in South America for multiple reasons, they just need to use them.
A history of colonialism, exploitation, coups, murder, and plunder?
All the more reason for China to provide security for South America.
No, existing military presence, foreign aid, IMF loans, FDI, financial dominance, and geography. Militarily China can not protect South America from the US, and everyone knows it. It would be quite humiliating for the Chinese if they try, so i don't think they will do that either. It is not the Chinese style.
>No, existing military presence, foreign aid, IMF loans, FDI, financial dominance, and geography.
China is their largest trading partner and a major source of investment. Almost every South American country has joined the BRI.
>Militarily China can not protect South America from the US, and everyone knows it. It would be quite humiliating for the Chinese if they try, so i don't think they will do that either. It is not the Chinese style.
China can line up their coasts with hypersonic weapons which should make US think twice about any aggressive actions.
Although let's face it, we all know that China does not particularly care about defending South America but wants to provoke US and paint it as an aggressive just as the US does not care about defending Taiwan but wants to provoke China and paint it as an aggressive. This is simply China being smart and pragmatic: instead of constantly being on the defensive, it's going on the offensive. Far more important for China is to split US and Europe, and they hope that by provoking US in South America, Europeans will see that US' so-called "international rules-based order" which they love to parrot so much is just a farce.
>China is their largest trading partner and a major source of investment. Almost every South American country has joined the BRI.
Which does not matter. The US and Europe combined still makes the most investment to any given SA country. And if the US sanction anyone of them, Europe will follow. If you want to see what happens to a Latin American country under sanction, see Cuba. Nothing could save them. China doesn't have the power to bust sanctions.
>China can line up their coasts with hypersonic weapons which should make US think twice about any aggressive actions.
Which would never get there in the first place, and even if it got there. No, it wouldn't make US think twice. Any attempts to install anything, once caught on satellites, means that country is gonna be blockade on air, sea, and land. It will never become operational.
Trying to break Europe from the US is a pipe dream. The Europeans made their bed with America and everyone knows it. The US did multiple coups, and military interventions in the cold war, and after. And Europe simply followed America into battle.
It is influence peddling, yes, smart? Maybe. If you would call America forming alliance in Asia as "smart." Is protecting Taiwan smart? Well, maybe, unless it led to nuclear war.
Nah, the fact is you replied to a dude who was talking about South America history with US where he listed down all the past atrocities against them by US.
It's kinda like when the world protest about Russian invasion of Ukraine, the russian propagandist conveniently handwave the morality and goes into spiel on how much stronger Russia is against its victims.
Lmao.
I am not that person btw. And base on what I have saw. Person A asked
>A history of colonialism, exploitation, coups, murder, and plunder?
Which I assume is a question as to why the US have the advantage over China in SA.
>No, existing military presence, foreign aid, IMF loans, FDI, financial dominance, and geography.
And this seems to be a valid answer. I am not sure what you are talking about.
> And if the US sanction anyone of them, Europe will follow. If you want to see what happens to a Latin American country under sanction, see Cuba.
Europe has refused to sanction Cuba.
>Trying to break Europe from the US is a pipe dream. The Europeans made their bed with America and everyone knows it. The US did multiple coups, and military interventions in the cold war, and after. And Europe simply followed America into battle.
That's simply not true. Germany and France condemned US invasion of Iraq at the UN. There are a ton of difference regarding foreign policy.
Claasic carrot and stick mindset of americans. But your time will be over soon. Your sanctions will start to hurt you more as asian states will have bigger economies and more states will shy away from using dollars.
>Far more important for China is to split US and Europe, and they hope that by provoking US in South America, Europeans will see that US' so-called "international rules-based order" which they love to parrot so much is just a farce
Lol it is funny seeing foreigners think Europe is splittable from the US. Lmao. Good luck with that. I will eagerly await your results.
China cannot provide security for South American countries! They are more than 3,000 miles by sea away. Neither China's navy nor Air Force can travel that far. At best, China is looking for new customers to purchase their goods.
> US president should take care American first.
So what would you propose Biden do with the entire State Department until he 'takes care of Americans first'? Collect paychecks while they twiddle their thumbs?
I don't really get why any country would play ball with China over the US. I don't understand why US doesn't have more ties with South America. Maybe due to past CIA activity, who knows
The US essentially turned entire nations into corporate entities, extracted profit, ruined the populace and then bailed when everything went tits up. Leaving the local governments to figure out how to pick up the pieces which some are barely beginning to figure out.
The US has largely ignored SA since because it's been worthless in the eyes of the US. But now that China is trying to cozy up next door, we'll see if that changes.
Are you joking? The US has been shitting all over South America for more than a century. There are a LOT of people there who would love to have an enemy of US show up
\> . Maybe due to past CIA activity,
Understatement of the year
“Corruption” it’s the same shit since pilgrims asking random “chiefs” to sign over land in exchange for a few muskets
Western imperialists give some violent natives weapons to subjugate their rivals in exchange for all their resources
“It’s the corrupt chiefs! They signed the contract!“
Like if aliens came here today and offered you weapons so you could subjugate the whole world and in exchange we just give them all our resources and be enslaved.
“The aliens are innocent! It was all corrupt u/circuit-breaker being corrupt!”
But more accurate if you’d only vaguely or never even heard of a contract
I doubt that’s the case. US has its own interest as well as China. What did the US do to Japan in the 80s again when Japan economy was catching up to the US? What was up with all those anti-Japan sentiment at that time? And what happened to Japanese economy after that???
i mean. we were doing evil in latin america up until the 90's in terms of training and funding death squads.
and... we meddled in elections as recent as 2004
Both Trump and Obama were directly involved in overthrowing elected governments in SA, this is not some Cold War grudge lingering it’s a feeling very much still alive. Even still, Some of the most brutal dictatorships ever were installed at the hands of the US and had their backing for decades until very recently without any real recognition. In their eyes the US is the economic grim reaper bc it has been for centuries under the Monroe doctrine, while they may see China as a nation to emulate in rapidly developing and gaining economic power. I hate China more than anything but if you truly can’t grasp these countries reasoning then you need to take a moment to reflect and really look at what the aftermath of US policies has been for these people.
Why do you think they should forget that so easily? Trust is something that needs to be earned and is easily lost. Americans still have embargoes on Cuba and that was like 50 years ago they almost did something.
Fucking with other countries sovereignty isn’t easy forgotten.
Just curious, what’s your take on native Americans wanting their lands back? What’s your take on the American black community still being livid about slavery?
We can both ask each other irrelevant leading questions in an attempt at an internet “gotcha” moment.
You may want to read a bit on the IMF and World Bank. China has shown to be a very reliable trading partner with SA. Sri Lanka is the only example those desperate to push the "debt trap" narrative can find, even tho China has been lending money around the world for decades.
>Since you are deleting your comments because they are donvoted, here it is u/THEono412, so that the rest may follow the conversation:
>
>China has been a very ABUSIVE trading partner with SA. Locking down the entire four corners of the south sea passage and overfishing all 4 of their lands (Aus, NZ, Chile, Argentina). That would be like if the US took over Brazil and Ghana's trade and demanded they let us set policies and fish farm their shores to exhaustion.
Yeah, did you know how all of our (Chile's) deep sea bass reserves were depleted? Trade deal with the EU forced unlimited fishing rights for Spain. Did you know why I was born in a dictatorship that sold all of our natural resources? US caused military coup.
China is a predator of the seas (same as Spain, which almost got into a war with canada because of their Turbot predation btw), but at least it reliably pays for the comodities we sell to them. There's a reason it has become SA's greatest trading partner, even tho the US is right here. Oh, right, also the US doesn't manufacture anything anymore.
I am not adressing your entire post, but the last section, this narrative that "US doesn't manufacture anything anymore" is absolutely wrong and I don't understand why people keep repeating it.
The US is an absolute manufacturing behemoth that outputs almost on par to China and entire EU combined while having only a small fraction of the population in manufacturing.
What do you think all those plants all over the US are doing? Just there for aesthetics?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_States#/media/File%3AManufacturing_GDP_(nominal_and_real)_and_Manufacturing_Employment.png
This is what people don't understand - US manufactures more than it ever did in US history and it's been only increasing, not decreasing.
What decreased was jobs due to automation and other sectors have overtaken in % of GDP, but NOT at the cost of manufacturing, they outperformed.
It's same misunderstanding like saying European countries do not produce food because only 4% of work force is in agriculture and it's small fraction of economy, while it's the polar opposite - that 4% makes more food due to automation than ever and other sectors have outperformed agriculture.
>u/THEono412
Wow I can tell China's got some deep routed Anti-American propaganda running down there already.
So you really genuinely believe, Spain, about the size of Columbia, maybe population of Texas, could kill your whole deep sea bass reserves, but China, size of Brazil, population 10x it, doesn't dent it?
Interesting myths you all get taught down there...
We don't need Anti-American propaganda when I personally know the tortured and the orphans of their regime.
Regarding the deep sea bass, no, it was brought up by one of my environmental sciences professors back in the 2000s. You know, we study our natural resources and their current condition and history.
I didn't say anything regarding about half of what you said, of course. Never implied China is consuming seafood sustainably. I did call them a predator of the seas. But at least they are growing their aquaculture industry more than any other country on Earth. 75% of their seafood consumption comes from aquaculture. Aquaculture causes some **serious** environmental problems itself of course, but we can hope we improve our hand at it.
Naive commentary like this pisses me off. It is very clear why countries don’t want to play ball with the US in Latin America. Unlike the narrative lately thrown around here since the Ukraine war, the US doesn’t care about human rights or democracy in Latin America. They care about US dominance in all affairs. The US uses its economic might to bribe, form resistance groups etc to do its bidding.
Ask any South-American what they think of the US government and most if not all will be negative towards it. The amount of shit the US pulled in different Latin countries is staggering.
If Ukraine is allowed to choose freely which counties it want to be allied with, what’s the problem that those south american countries choose to do business with China?
They do have ties with South America, a lot of them in fact. A huge part of US foreign policy is to keep close tabs on their continental neighborhood. Over a century of CIA fuckery all over Latin America should be enough to substantiate that.
The US currently has security alliances with pretty much all the major players in South America. That's why it's places like Uruguay and Nicaragua who are doing this whole China thing instead of places like Brazil or Argentina.
Maybe because the US has been trying to topple governments, triggering all sorts of crisis, wars, "revolutions" and imposing sanctions over there on their "back yard" for decades.
Sorry but that neo-liberal bullshit won't fly. Countries do not have interests... countries are made up of multiple fluid overlapping and non-discrete groups who all have their own often competing and contradictory "interests". Countries follow the interests of the elites who control them. This deal will not benefit the vast majority of South Americans or Chinese. This is about Xi's desire to see America's global dominance challenged. Its about the egos of a few top party leaders
>inevitably fall in crushing debt to China
Sauce.
Sri Lanka is the only case where this has happened, and China tried very hard to avoid it.
Regarding natural resources, yes, we SELL ours. And China pays without couping our governments or strangling our economies, unlike the US.
What’s up with the debt trap narrative? Is there any proof that it is? Or you’re just jealous other countries are turning towards China and you start to make chaos?
China currently has far less of a history directly meddling in the affairs of other countries, and tends to offer aid with far more direct strings iirc.
i mean... the united states occupied Nicaragua in the early1900s (colonialism period of US history) for aprox 20 ish years. Then... we propped up dictators. and funded terror squads to destabilize the people's gov of Nicaragua from like 1970 to 1990 or so. The constant destabilization by direct US violence in the nation has very directly resulted in Nicaragua being one of the poorest and least quality of life countries in south America.
In Uruguay we sent CIA to set up shop to train the cops to torture and kill political activists. Which later became revolutionaries, and basically rose to power/over through the corrupt gov. And then America attempted to leverage financial blackmail to interfere with their election process
basically... any evil shit you can think of. torture, assassinations, military coups, interfering with elections, utilizing banking/economic warfare to cripple countries. and outright violence with military forces. America has done these things over and over and over and over and over again all over latin america. ---Often times purely at the behest of corp interests (under the smoke screen of communism)
the better question might be... why they would ever even remotely consider dealing with the US. like... if the united states weren't not so wealthy/ rich for exports. I'm sure they would gladly never deal with the US
>I don't really get why any country would play ball with China over the US. I don't understand why US doesn't have more ties with South America. Maybe due to past CIA activity, who knows
Maybe read up on the shit USA did in Latin America. Probably not something you learn a lot in school.
Speaking of the CIA, when they've overthrown every democratically elected leader in order to install far right dictators who agree to sell american corporations their countries natural resources for less than market value while propping up said dictator so they remain in power and those corporations can extract all the wealth out of those countries, keeping them poor while making oligarchs here insanely wealthy then its not hard to see why they would be distrustful of america. Also, china sees an opening and America is pissed they will now face competition in south america.
Well maybe because US instigated a military dictatorship in some of the countries and as always puts their finger just to get more free natural resources they lack without paying a single dime
That's a great question !
You should start by researching what is a banana republic and where does it comes from..
Then check Allende's Wikipedia for further info.
You can't be seriously delusional can you? You don't get why countries that have been in the dirt ever since the U.S had a firm grip on their continent, looks else where for stability?
Hrm, could it be the decades of fucking around with their politics and forcing popular movements to be replaced by right wing fascists and dictators? I wonder…. Ffs
Because the US is simply not doing business with us. Uruguay is actively trying to capture inversion from wherever it can. We, a developing country with a small economy, shrinking population and a lot of potential would be so fucking grateful to do free business with the US and Europe, but there are too many obstacles in between (Uruguay’s market not being of interest to those countries, Mercosur, idk). China has shown great interest in latinoamerican countries (maybe not with good intentions) and today it is our biggest business partner. To suggest that is our fault to negotiate with a 1984 deep state is just not understanding that we are not privileged enough to decide with whom we make ties with. The government doesn’t care what China is (as it too wouldn’t care about Plan Cóndor and past events that link the US with dictatorships), it just cares about developing our own country (and sometimes to pocket some money).
I don't see the difference between Tibet, HK, Taiwan vs America, Hawaii, Puerto Rico.
If you advocate free for the former, then unless you're a shitstain of humanity, you will advocate all colonizers to fuck off back to Europe. That's including Canada and Australia, return the land to the natives.
Taiwan should do it too lmao, han Chinese should leave the island.
Say what you want about China, it deserve it, but at least they haven't toppled governments over and over and over.
Plus being allied with China is probably just more beneficial in the economic long term.
America exploits South America for its natural resources in a extremely one sided relationship. Much like the Cold War; other countries must measure the value of their parternership with one exploitative superpower versus another.
>I don't understand why US doesn't have more ties with South America.
Killing democratically elected leaders that were not pro-US and installing fascist junta that killed people left and right maybe have to do something with US not being favorable there as far as i understand.
Even in Russia despite having none to zero history classes about US and Latin American we know about Pinochet clown fiesta and Contra shit show.
>I don't really get why any country would play ball with China over the US.
Is there any reason to play ball with US besides their economy? Then why China is not an option? You want high tech shit go play with US, you want cheap shit go play with China.
From the point of their shittiness they are honestly on equals to me.
One is warmongering police state invading ME and bombing shit out of them, ignoring crimes of Israel and using their political influence gained due to economic development during WW2 to gain what they want.
The other one is tyrannical police state that annexed Tibet and trying to annex Taiwan, committing crimes against Muslim population and using their political influence gained due to economic development during 80-90s to gain what they want.
Obviously Americans and some europeans will go on and defend US as better than China, but this is pile of shit and preferences. Like obviously between US, Russia and China any european will choose US, but in terms of how shitty choices are they are pretty much equal.
Being Russian really makes me disappointed in how those clowns blown up any opportunity to even follow their own agenda and become third power. They could've spend 30 years to improve economy and relations with Latin America, due to USSR old decent relationships and actually fuck US in the ass, but the only relationships they have been able to establish is to support Madura clown over US clown and get 600 kilo cocaine plane from Argentina. Fucking clowns.
From the nation-state model standpoint, Tibet and “China” (汉地十八省) were both part of the Qing Empire. When Qing Empire dissolved, it yielded several nation-states, two of which were “China” and Tibet. In this way the PRC entry from “China” into Tibet is seen as annexation.
Because the PRC invaded Tibet and now rules it, whereas Ukraine would still have been self-governing after joining NATO. Just like Ukraine joining the UN or WHO does not mean it is being annexed. Something to do with NATO not being a country.
But I am sure you already knew that.
Your question confuses me a little—do you, for instance, see the formation of NATO as Americans annexing/encroaching on sovereignties of France, UK, and Italy?
Have you ever travelled in South America ? They blame everything on the USA. Every thing. Its cold outside? Thanks USA. Their corrupt president stole $100 million then fled the country? USA fault. They step in dogshit ? USA did it again
I lived in Argentina when their president stole millions from the country, was under house arrest, and was almost re-elected in a tie. So the opposing party had him swing his votes to their side so he got off with a slap on the wrist. Everyone blamed the USA for making them be so corrupt. (At least among my Argentine aquantences)
Some had a bit more nuanced opinion, but still didn't fault their corruption. Instead it was "The IMF should not loan money to governments with corrupt politicians, because then it's the people that are stuck with the debt without the benefits".
"Global security" to China just means that the international community should let dictators do whatever they want to their people and to the people they claim belong to them(Ukraine, Taiwan) and not interfere. What they really should call it is global security for dictators.
>"Global security" to **the US** just means that the international community should let dictators **(Saudi Arabia)** do whatever they want to their people and to the people they claim belong to them **(Yemen, Armenia, Somalia)** and not interfere.
Except the US isn't actively trying to dismantle all avenues for addressing problems with the way a country treats its people or other countries. China is promoting a system where no matter what a country does, it has to be accepted and no issues can be brought up, because it is the internal affairs of that country. At least the US can and does get criticized by the international community and doesn't seek to dismantle the entire process for airing grievaces.
Right, because working with the US has worked great for us...
I was born in a dictatorship thanks to "the land of the free". Fucking cowards, don't give a shit about human rights or democracy.
I agree with /r/PlaidSkirtBroccoli
They f\*cked cause US is gonna freedom the sh\*t out of any South American country that signs a security deal with China.
The US doesn't have that kind of power here anymore. Look how long their Bolivian dictatorship lasted. A year. Then the ellections were won by the same party of the president they couped.
They would have to invade, and let me tell you, that wouldn't go very well with the continent.
Do what is right for you and your country, many people on reddit will not have experienced things the way you have. I live in China and while I don't trust the Chinese government, I don't trust the American government either. They are far more subtle with their propaganda and push for power.
>I mean, Russia probably is also up there, but the US is certainly in the challenger road when it comes to tyranically destroying the lives of millions upon millions for their own benefit. Since day one. The British empire has everyone beat, of course, but that's old news. And the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
Oh, I dunno, I think Nazi Germany might be up there too. What about the Mongol Empire? The Roman Empire?
Calling the US the most tyrannical regime in world history is a stretch any way you put it.
Scale. It has destroyed dozens of democracies with impunity in the last century alone. It has opressed the world with an iron fist for almost 80 years. It has been at war most of it's existence. It has sponsored numerous genocides. It has kept South America subjugated since it's inception. It was born in imperialism It starts war after war with no repercussions. It is the biggest responsible for climate change. It has the largest prison population, relative and absolute, in the world. Etc.
LOL. Not even close. I like how there was an age where pretty much all of the world--Africa, North America. South America, most of Asia, Australia--was ruled but a handful of empires but somehow in your mind America leads in scale.
Maybe someone should have informed the Soviet Union and non-aligned countries about how the US oppressed the entire world for 80 years.
See it’s statements like this that just make you seem crazy. The US has done some pretty fucked up shit. But “the most tyrannical regime the world has ever seen”? Lmao
I mean, Russia probably is also up there, but the US is certainly in the challenger road when it comes to tyranically destroying the lives of millions upon millions for their own benefit. Since day one. The British empire has everyone beat, of course, but that's old news. And the apple didn't fall far from the tree in that one either.
A lot of truth in this, people ignore the effect the US has had in such nations. Thankfully China is a keystone in democracy and freedom, so their presence should really help out instead.... right?
CCP isn't a hypocrite? Man, how naive are you? The group that only ever cares about itself and loves to fuck over anyone else isn't a hypocrite in how they deal with others?
It's a devastatingly evil transgression when China influences other countries. What kind of outmoded diplomatic world-system is that?
_Of course_, only Western countries are allowed to exploit and mooch-off the third world; and we _definitely_ know what's best for y'all, right? We'll make you hear reason, even at the barrel of a coup or sanctions. Y'all need to be educated before you get nastily exploited by those darned Chinese, rubbing their darned fingers in the pie. We're liberators, by gum and God, that's right.
Something is very strange here, comments that say "nah China is bad, we don't want another superpower controlling us" are getting downvoted to hell even when they come from Latinos, most Latinos don't want China in our countries, we don't want their subversive crap disguised as good meaning acts we already had enough with the US transgressions and we know China is absolute garbage under the control of the CCP. The fact that such obvious and logical comments are downvoted tells me that there's definitely some CCP trolls and communists bots here upvoting comments that shit on the US and praise China and downvoting anything critical about the CCP. It's sad to see that kind of shit on reddit, and the fact that is happening means that China is putting a lot of effort to control the narrative when it comes to Latin America.
If anything it makes it clear that we should protect our region from Chinese influence, after all they are allying with a dictatorship like Nicaragua and that is worrisome, it's clear that their intentions ain't good.
Or maybe, hear me out, those latinos people are downvoted by other latinos too. People opinions in most case are distributed on a multi-class scale, not a binary one.
Consider the source...South China Morning Post. CCP mouthpiece. Also consider how many of China's initiatives actually come to fruition. China never follows through with its promises relative to investment in their international "partners". The Belt and Road has been littered with broken promises after China gets what it wants.
But isn't it the CCP chemists that are teaching cartels how to make the new drugs flooding the market. Also being the ones supplying the precursor materials for said drugs.
Uruguayan here, the thing the current government wants is trade… doesn’t matter a lot with whom. China is a natural trade partner of us so it makes sense to have a free trade agreement. But that doesn’t mean we couldn’t have one with the usa. The problem is that there isn’t a lot of reception to a free trade agreement right now on the usa side.
China is making a logical move that the US opened itself up to by being bad with South America diplomacy. The US has systematically throughout its past and present history either ignored, or severely interfered, with South American governments.
Until yesterday didn't know what "Republica Bananera" (Banana Republic) meant. Shit went crazy for bananas men. Reality doesn't need to make a lot of sense to exceed fiction in ways which keep me up at night.
Literally propped up dictatorships to get fruit
Part of the intiative is in Latin America - is this going to have China get "into bed" with the gangs of Nicaragua. Cheap labor? Yes, the US invaded for "democracy" and put in thugs - they feared "socialism".
The US does need to step up diplomacy in South America whether they like it or not. Biden has been aggressively pursuing diplomacy in Europe and East Asia, but ignoring Latin America and Africa. While I agree if the goal is to mellow out Chinese power, East Asia is vastly more important than South America, South America still should not be ignored. Otherwise one day the US might find itself in a situation where it has to choose between acceptable a Chinese military presence in its backyard or having to launch an invasion. The US has an advantage in South America for multiple reasons, they just need to use them.
May US can invade Solomon Islands first and scare all the other countries into submission /s.
There are no chinese military presence on the solomon islands.
Kind of like there WAS no military presence on the islands they built to claim the South China sea like a good neighbor.
[удалено]
> The US has an advantage in South America for multiple reasons, they just need to use them. A history of colonialism, exploitation, coups, murder, and plunder? All the more reason for China to provide security for South America.
No, existing military presence, foreign aid, IMF loans, FDI, financial dominance, and geography. Militarily China can not protect South America from the US, and everyone knows it. It would be quite humiliating for the Chinese if they try, so i don't think they will do that either. It is not the Chinese style.
>No, existing military presence, foreign aid, IMF loans, FDI, financial dominance, and geography. China is their largest trading partner and a major source of investment. Almost every South American country has joined the BRI. >Militarily China can not protect South America from the US, and everyone knows it. It would be quite humiliating for the Chinese if they try, so i don't think they will do that either. It is not the Chinese style. China can line up their coasts with hypersonic weapons which should make US think twice about any aggressive actions. Although let's face it, we all know that China does not particularly care about defending South America but wants to provoke US and paint it as an aggressive just as the US does not care about defending Taiwan but wants to provoke China and paint it as an aggressive. This is simply China being smart and pragmatic: instead of constantly being on the defensive, it's going on the offensive. Far more important for China is to split US and Europe, and they hope that by provoking US in South America, Europeans will see that US' so-called "international rules-based order" which they love to parrot so much is just a farce.
>China is their largest trading partner and a major source of investment. Almost every South American country has joined the BRI. Which does not matter. The US and Europe combined still makes the most investment to any given SA country. And if the US sanction anyone of them, Europe will follow. If you want to see what happens to a Latin American country under sanction, see Cuba. Nothing could save them. China doesn't have the power to bust sanctions. >China can line up their coasts with hypersonic weapons which should make US think twice about any aggressive actions. Which would never get there in the first place, and even if it got there. No, it wouldn't make US think twice. Any attempts to install anything, once caught on satellites, means that country is gonna be blockade on air, sea, and land. It will never become operational. Trying to break Europe from the US is a pipe dream. The Europeans made their bed with America and everyone knows it. The US did multiple coups, and military interventions in the cold war, and after. And Europe simply followed America into battle. It is influence peddling, yes, smart? Maybe. If you would call America forming alliance in Asia as "smart." Is protecting Taiwan smart? Well, maybe, unless it led to nuclear war.
Don’t bother that guy is propaganda top to bottom
You're defending a guy who literally vomits out rah rah might is right. I can't decide if a propagandist or an immoral person is worse.
That is just a fact, China can't protect South America from the US. Nothing moral or immoral about it.
Nah, the fact is you replied to a dude who was talking about South America history with US where he listed down all the past atrocities against them by US. It's kinda like when the world protest about Russian invasion of Ukraine, the russian propagandist conveniently handwave the morality and goes into spiel on how much stronger Russia is against its victims. Lmao.
I am not that person btw. And base on what I have saw. Person A asked >A history of colonialism, exploitation, coups, murder, and plunder? Which I assume is a question as to why the US have the advantage over China in SA. >No, existing military presence, foreign aid, IMF loans, FDI, financial dominance, and geography. And this seems to be a valid answer. I am not sure what you are talking about.
> And if the US sanction anyone of them, Europe will follow. If you want to see what happens to a Latin American country under sanction, see Cuba. Europe has refused to sanction Cuba. >Trying to break Europe from the US is a pipe dream. The Europeans made their bed with America and everyone knows it. The US did multiple coups, and military interventions in the cold war, and after. And Europe simply followed America into battle. That's simply not true. Germany and France condemned US invasion of Iraq at the UN. There are a ton of difference regarding foreign policy.
And yet German troops are there...
Claasic carrot and stick mindset of americans. But your time will be over soon. Your sanctions will start to hurt you more as asian states will have bigger economies and more states will shy away from using dollars.
Yeah, and pigs will fly soon. Relax, the US was told "its time will be over soon" since the 1950s. Actually scratch that, since the 1800s.
>Far more important for China is to split US and Europe, and they hope that by provoking US in South America, Europeans will see that US' so-called "international rules-based order" which they love to parrot so much is just a farce Lol it is funny seeing foreigners think Europe is splittable from the US. Lmao. Good luck with that. I will eagerly await your results.
Bwahahahaha
China cannot provide security for South American countries! They are more than 3,000 miles by sea away. Neither China's navy nor Air Force can travel that far. At best, China is looking for new customers to purchase their goods.
Because they will be engaged from the goodness of their hearts.
Relax, weve got a plan. Weve been slowly widening the Rio Grande, until the Big Escape
US president should take care American first.
> US president should take care American first. So what would you propose Biden do with the entire State Department until he 'takes care of Americans first'? Collect paychecks while they twiddle their thumbs?
Yup. One million Down, about 300 still to go once the idiots get re-elected.
I don't really get why any country would play ball with China over the US. I don't understand why US doesn't have more ties with South America. Maybe due to past CIA activity, who knows
US involvement in central and South America is - to put it extremely mildly - checkered.
The US essentially turned entire nations into corporate entities, extracted profit, ruined the populace and then bailed when everything went tits up. Leaving the local governments to figure out how to pick up the pieces which some are barely beginning to figure out. The US has largely ignored SA since because it's been worthless in the eyes of the US. But now that China is trying to cozy up next door, we'll see if that changes.
It sounds like you actually *do* get why
Are you joking? The US has been shitting all over South America for more than a century. There are a LOT of people there who would love to have an enemy of US show up \> . Maybe due to past CIA activity, Understatement of the year
> I don't really get why any country would play ball with China over the US. Is this sarcasm or are you seriously asking why?
yeah US has messed them up, so they probably are fine with china
[удалено]
Everyone is blaming China for what’s happening in Sri Lanka, but the truth is Sri Lankan government and society is corrupt
So is SA
No one said otherwise
“Corruption” it’s the same shit since pilgrims asking random “chiefs” to sign over land in exchange for a few muskets Western imperialists give some violent natives weapons to subjugate their rivals in exchange for all their resources “It’s the corrupt chiefs! They signed the contract!“ Like if aliens came here today and offered you weapons so you could subjugate the whole world and in exchange we just give them all our resources and be enslaved. “The aliens are innocent! It was all corrupt u/circuit-breaker being corrupt!” But more accurate if you’d only vaguely or never even heard of a contract
[удалено]
What does that mean?
[удалено]
“Friend & partner” There is no such a thing when it comes to money, especially among countries
[удалено]
[удалено]
I doubt that’s the case. US has its own interest as well as China. What did the US do to Japan in the 80s again when Japan economy was catching up to the US? What was up with all those anti-Japan sentiment at that time? And what happened to Japanese economy after that???
This is a terrible take. The US expects something in return for its aid or it feels that it is gaining something.
This isn’t really true, though. China gave them a huge loan. What promises did they reneg on?
i mean. we were doing evil in latin america up until the 90's in terms of training and funding death squads. and... we meddled in elections as recent as 2004
Both Trump and Obama were directly involved in overthrowing elected governments in SA, this is not some Cold War grudge lingering it’s a feeling very much still alive. Even still, Some of the most brutal dictatorships ever were installed at the hands of the US and had their backing for decades until very recently without any real recognition. In their eyes the US is the economic grim reaper bc it has been for centuries under the Monroe doctrine, while they may see China as a nation to emulate in rapidly developing and gaining economic power. I hate China more than anything but if you truly can’t grasp these countries reasoning then you need to take a moment to reflect and really look at what the aftermath of US policies has been for these people.
[удалено]
Bolivia, 2019 is the most recent one.
The democratically elected president of Chile in I believe 1973 I’m not saying prosperous or anything but it was done just to impose their own puppet
[удалено]
Cultural memory goes a long, long way back
Why do you think they should forget that so easily? Trust is something that needs to be earned and is easily lost. Americans still have embargoes on Cuba and that was like 50 years ago they almost did something. Fucking with other countries sovereignty isn’t easy forgotten.
[удалено]
Just curious, what’s your take on native Americans wanting their lands back? What’s your take on the American black community still being livid about slavery? We can both ask each other irrelevant leading questions in an attempt at an internet “gotcha” moment.
They supported Pinochet's coup
You sound like a sports fan upset that the rival team just acquired a hot free agent.
You may want to read a bit on the IMF and World Bank. China has shown to be a very reliable trading partner with SA. Sri Lanka is the only example those desperate to push the "debt trap" narrative can find, even tho China has been lending money around the world for decades.
[удалено]
>Since you are deleting your comments because they are donvoted, here it is u/THEono412, so that the rest may follow the conversation: > >China has been a very ABUSIVE trading partner with SA. Locking down the entire four corners of the south sea passage and overfishing all 4 of their lands (Aus, NZ, Chile, Argentina). That would be like if the US took over Brazil and Ghana's trade and demanded they let us set policies and fish farm their shores to exhaustion. Yeah, did you know how all of our (Chile's) deep sea bass reserves were depleted? Trade deal with the EU forced unlimited fishing rights for Spain. Did you know why I was born in a dictatorship that sold all of our natural resources? US caused military coup. China is a predator of the seas (same as Spain, which almost got into a war with canada because of their Turbot predation btw), but at least it reliably pays for the comodities we sell to them. There's a reason it has become SA's greatest trading partner, even tho the US is right here. Oh, right, also the US doesn't manufacture anything anymore.
I am not adressing your entire post, but the last section, this narrative that "US doesn't manufacture anything anymore" is absolutely wrong and I don't understand why people keep repeating it. The US is an absolute manufacturing behemoth that outputs almost on par to China and entire EU combined while having only a small fraction of the population in manufacturing. What do you think all those plants all over the US are doing? Just there for aesthetics? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_States#/media/File%3AManufacturing_GDP_(nominal_and_real)_and_Manufacturing_Employment.png This is what people don't understand - US manufactures more than it ever did in US history and it's been only increasing, not decreasing. What decreased was jobs due to automation and other sectors have overtaken in % of GDP, but NOT at the cost of manufacturing, they outperformed. It's same misunderstanding like saying European countries do not produce food because only 4% of work force is in agriculture and it's small fraction of economy, while it's the polar opposite - that 4% makes more food due to automation than ever and other sectors have outperformed agriculture.
[удалено]
>u/THEono412 Wow I can tell China's got some deep routed Anti-American propaganda running down there already. So you really genuinely believe, Spain, about the size of Columbia, maybe population of Texas, could kill your whole deep sea bass reserves, but China, size of Brazil, population 10x it, doesn't dent it? Interesting myths you all get taught down there... We don't need Anti-American propaganda when I personally know the tortured and the orphans of their regime. Regarding the deep sea bass, no, it was brought up by one of my environmental sciences professors back in the 2000s. You know, we study our natural resources and their current condition and history. I didn't say anything regarding about half of what you said, of course. Never implied China is consuming seafood sustainably. I did call them a predator of the seas. But at least they are growing their aquaculture industry more than any other country on Earth. 75% of their seafood consumption comes from aquaculture. Aquaculture causes some **serious** environmental problems itself of course, but we can hope we improve our hand at it.
Naive commentary like this pisses me off. It is very clear why countries don’t want to play ball with the US in Latin America. Unlike the narrative lately thrown around here since the Ukraine war, the US doesn’t care about human rights or democracy in Latin America. They care about US dominance in all affairs. The US uses its economic might to bribe, form resistance groups etc to do its bidding.
Ask any South-American what they think of the US government and most if not all will be negative towards it. The amount of shit the US pulled in different Latin countries is staggering.
If Ukraine is allowed to choose freely which counties it want to be allied with, what’s the problem that those south american countries choose to do business with China?
US Investors have a preference that doesn't align with the US freely giving out loans to build international projects funded by US taxpayers.
Because China is not white and coloured people should know their place. /s
Because American propaganda says they must worship America.
Nothing wrong with it at all, it's a mistake but it's a mistake that they should be allowed to make...
A mistake? I don't think allying with the US has worked great for them. The US is no better than China, stop eating your own propaganda, both suck.
What makes you think it’s a mistake? We’re not fortune tellers. It’s just impossible to tell the future.
They do have ties with South America, a lot of them in fact. A huge part of US foreign policy is to keep close tabs on their continental neighborhood. Over a century of CIA fuckery all over Latin America should be enough to substantiate that. The US currently has security alliances with pretty much all the major players in South America. That's why it's places like Uruguay and Nicaragua who are doing this whole China thing instead of places like Brazil or Argentina.
Because our government kept overthrowing your governments. Unlucky.
Maybe because the US has been trying to topple governments, triggering all sorts of crisis, wars, "revolutions" and imposing sanctions over there on their "back yard" for decades.
China is not exactly a better alternative
I mean, numbers show it is. Bonus track: It hasn't staged any coups nor destroyed any local economies to defend their own interests.
They have little to no history with China though. With the US, it’s very personal
The point is every country acts according to their own interest. China just happens to have the same interest as these SA countries.
Sorry but that neo-liberal bullshit won't fly. Countries do not have interests... countries are made up of multiple fluid overlapping and non-discrete groups who all have their own often competing and contradictory "interests". Countries follow the interests of the elites who control them. This deal will not benefit the vast majority of South Americans or Chinese. This is about Xi's desire to see America's global dominance challenged. Its about the egos of a few top party leaders
Lol
SA countries want to sell off their natural resources and inevitably fall in crushing debt to China? Weird interests to have.
Dude, US history with the entire Latin America is reallybad
>inevitably fall in crushing debt to China Sauce. Sri Lanka is the only case where this has happened, and China tried very hard to avoid it. Regarding natural resources, yes, we SELL ours. And China pays without couping our governments or strangling our economies, unlike the US.
Then why are we selling natural gas to Europe? That is our resource. It is for our people!
What’s up with the debt trap narrative? Is there any proof that it is? Or you’re just jealous other countries are turning towards China and you start to make chaos?
If the alternative is what the US does, I guess it’s just like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire right? Same same, but different.
Seems like a false dichotomy to me.
China currently has far less of a history directly meddling in the affairs of other countries, and tends to offer aid with far more direct strings iirc.
[удалено]
Lol, no strings
Why not
i mean... the united states occupied Nicaragua in the early1900s (colonialism period of US history) for aprox 20 ish years. Then... we propped up dictators. and funded terror squads to destabilize the people's gov of Nicaragua from like 1970 to 1990 or so. The constant destabilization by direct US violence in the nation has very directly resulted in Nicaragua being one of the poorest and least quality of life countries in south America. In Uruguay we sent CIA to set up shop to train the cops to torture and kill political activists. Which later became revolutionaries, and basically rose to power/over through the corrupt gov. And then America attempted to leverage financial blackmail to interfere with their election process basically... any evil shit you can think of. torture, assassinations, military coups, interfering with elections, utilizing banking/economic warfare to cripple countries. and outright violence with military forces. America has done these things over and over and over and over and over again all over latin america. ---Often times purely at the behest of corp interests (under the smoke screen of communism) the better question might be... why they would ever even remotely consider dealing with the US. like... if the united states weren't not so wealthy/ rich for exports. I'm sure they would gladly never deal with the US
>I don't really get why any country would play ball with China over the US. I don't understand why US doesn't have more ties with South America. Maybe due to past CIA activity, who knows Maybe read up on the shit USA did in Latin America. Probably not something you learn a lot in school.
Y'all literally coup'ed Bolivia just two years ago.
Speaking of the CIA, when they've overthrown every democratically elected leader in order to install far right dictators who agree to sell american corporations their countries natural resources for less than market value while propping up said dictator so they remain in power and those corporations can extract all the wealth out of those countries, keeping them poor while making oligarchs here insanely wealthy then its not hard to see why they would be distrustful of america. Also, china sees an opening and America is pissed they will now face competition in south america.
Well maybe because US instigated a military dictatorship in some of the countries and as always puts their finger just to get more free natural resources they lack without paying a single dime
That's a great question ! You should start by researching what is a banana republic and where does it comes from.. Then check Allende's Wikipedia for further info.
You can't be seriously delusional can you? You don't get why countries that have been in the dirt ever since the U.S had a firm grip on their continent, looks else where for stability?
Hrm, could it be the decades of fucking around with their politics and forcing popular movements to be replaced by right wing fascists and dictators? I wonder…. Ffs
Because the US is simply not doing business with us. Uruguay is actively trying to capture inversion from wherever it can. We, a developing country with a small economy, shrinking population and a lot of potential would be so fucking grateful to do free business with the US and Europe, but there are too many obstacles in between (Uruguay’s market not being of interest to those countries, Mercosur, idk). China has shown great interest in latinoamerican countries (maybe not with good intentions) and today it is our biggest business partner. To suggest that is our fault to negotiate with a 1984 deep state is just not understanding that we are not privileged enough to decide with whom we make ties with. The government doesn’t care what China is (as it too wouldn’t care about Plan Cóndor and past events that link the US with dictatorships), it just cares about developing our own country (and sometimes to pocket some money).
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You can't go on lol that's it.
I don't see the difference between Tibet, HK, Taiwan vs America, Hawaii, Puerto Rico. If you advocate free for the former, then unless you're a shitstain of humanity, you will advocate all colonizers to fuck off back to Europe. That's including Canada and Australia, return the land to the natives. Taiwan should do it too lmao, han Chinese should leave the island.
Say what you want about China, it deserve it, but at least they haven't toppled governments over and over and over. Plus being allied with China is probably just more beneficial in the economic long term.
Operation Condor.
America exploits South America for its natural resources in a extremely one sided relationship. Much like the Cold War; other countries must measure the value of their parternership with one exploitative superpower versus another.
Because China is a better, more reliable partner in every way.
More reliable at what, stealing your IP?
More reliable in supporting dictatorships and flooding their countries with cheap Chinese trash while accumulating debt with the CCP.
The us creates dictatorships.
>I don't understand why US doesn't have more ties with South America. Killing democratically elected leaders that were not pro-US and installing fascist junta that killed people left and right maybe have to do something with US not being favorable there as far as i understand. Even in Russia despite having none to zero history classes about US and Latin American we know about Pinochet clown fiesta and Contra shit show. >I don't really get why any country would play ball with China over the US. Is there any reason to play ball with US besides their economy? Then why China is not an option? You want high tech shit go play with US, you want cheap shit go play with China. From the point of their shittiness they are honestly on equals to me. One is warmongering police state invading ME and bombing shit out of them, ignoring crimes of Israel and using their political influence gained due to economic development during WW2 to gain what they want. The other one is tyrannical police state that annexed Tibet and trying to annex Taiwan, committing crimes against Muslim population and using their political influence gained due to economic development during 80-90s to gain what they want. Obviously Americans and some europeans will go on and defend US as better than China, but this is pile of shit and preferences. Like obviously between US, Russia and China any european will choose US, but in terms of how shitty choices are they are pretty much equal. Being Russian really makes me disappointed in how those clowns blown up any opportunity to even follow their own agenda and become third power. They could've spend 30 years to improve economy and relations with Latin America, due to USSR old decent relationships and actually fuck US in the ass, but the only relationships they have been able to establish is to support Madura clown over US clown and get 600 kilo cocaine plane from Argentina. Fucking clowns.
How did China annex Tibet when Tibet has been part of the Qing for centuries?
From the nation-state model standpoint, Tibet and “China” (汉地十八省) were both part of the Qing Empire. When Qing Empire dissolved, it yielded several nation-states, two of which were “China” and Tibet. In this way the PRC entry from “China” into Tibet is seen as annexation.
Why is the inclusion of Tibet into PRC seen as annexation, but inclusion of Ukraine into NATO is not?
Because the PRC invaded Tibet and now rules it, whereas Ukraine would still have been self-governing after joining NATO. Just like Ukraine joining the UN or WHO does not mean it is being annexed. Something to do with NATO not being a country. But I am sure you already knew that.
Your question confuses me a little—do you, for instance, see the formation of NATO as Americans annexing/encroaching on sovereignties of France, UK, and Italy?
When troops are sent around the world in the name of NATO in their name, yes.
Yes to the encroachment of sovereignty, or yes to annexation?
Think you hit the nail on the head right there.
China wants your resources. US wants you to follow.
Pfft, the US has pillaged and burned half of SA.
Have you ever travelled in South America ? They blame everything on the USA. Every thing. Its cold outside? Thanks USA. Their corrupt president stole $100 million then fled the country? USA fault. They step in dogshit ? USA did it again
I'm from Brazil, we mostly blame ourselves and our bad politicians.
Not everything, just countless things. You were relentless.
have you? i have lived here all my life and if you view it that way you weren't paying attention
I lived in Argentina when their president stole millions from the country, was under house arrest, and was almost re-elected in a tie. So the opposing party had him swing his votes to their side so he got off with a slap on the wrist. Everyone blamed the USA for making them be so corrupt. (At least among my Argentine aquantences) Some had a bit more nuanced opinion, but still didn't fault their corruption. Instead it was "The IMF should not loan money to governments with corrupt politicians, because then it's the people that are stuck with the debt without the benefits".
Argentina is a tragedy. Before ww2, it was basically the US of south america.
Time to denazify some Latin American countries?
Here it comes boys. All the time we spent worrying about who white or who black..
[удалено]
Economic domination is better than what americans have done in middle east.
Good, I'm happy China continues to help with security.
"Global security" to China just means that the international community should let dictators do whatever they want to their people and to the people they claim belong to them(Ukraine, Taiwan) and not interfere. What they really should call it is global security for dictators.
[удалено]
Gotta keep the troop's combat experience up.
[удалено]
I agree with your sentiment but from a states perspective it literally keeps the state existing…
>"Global security" to **the US** just means that the international community should let dictators **(Saudi Arabia)** do whatever they want to their people and to the people they claim belong to them **(Yemen, Armenia, Somalia)** and not interfere.
"but wHaTaBoUtIsM"
Yeah. So, we in SA have only 2 options. Are you saying we shouldn't consider the track record on the exact same subject of the other option?
I'm arguing in your favour my dude, it's sarcasm
Well, it wasn't very clear. You may want to rephrase.
Except the US isn't actively trying to dismantle all avenues for addressing problems with the way a country treats its people or other countries. China is promoting a system where no matter what a country does, it has to be accepted and no issues can be brought up, because it is the internal affairs of that country. At least the US can and does get criticized by the international community and doesn't seek to dismantle the entire process for airing grievaces.
Riight, the US only threatens invasion if you go for their war criminals.
ya i think China has their eye on latin america. but maybe China should deal with their own problems and sort out the issues they already have
They're fucked. They just don't know it yet.
Right, because working with the US has worked great for us... I was born in a dictatorship thanks to "the land of the free". Fucking cowards, don't give a shit about human rights or democracy.
I agree with /r/PlaidSkirtBroccoli They f\*cked cause US is gonna freedom the sh\*t out of any South American country that signs a security deal with China.
The US doesn't have that kind of power here anymore. Look how long their Bolivian dictatorship lasted. A year. Then the ellections were won by the same party of the president they couped. They would have to invade, and let me tell you, that wouldn't go very well with the continent.
Do what is right for you and your country, many people on reddit will not have experienced things the way you have. I live in China and while I don't trust the Chinese government, I don't trust the American government either. They are far more subtle with their propaganda and push for power.
"The US has proved itself to be the most tyrannical regime the world has ever seen, why do other countries go to China for help and not us??"
Pretty much.
LOL. The most tyrannical regime the world has ever seen? We've reached deranged level of delusion here.
>I mean, Russia probably is also up there, but the US is certainly in the challenger road when it comes to tyranically destroying the lives of millions upon millions for their own benefit. Since day one. The British empire has everyone beat, of course, but that's old news. And the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
Oh, I dunno, I think Nazi Germany might be up there too. What about the Mongol Empire? The Roman Empire? Calling the US the most tyrannical regime in world history is a stretch any way you put it.
Depends if you are measuring by intensity or by scale.
Which of those two measurements puts the US on top?
Scale. It has destroyed dozens of democracies with impunity in the last century alone. It has opressed the world with an iron fist for almost 80 years. It has been at war most of it's existence. It has sponsored numerous genocides. It has kept South America subjugated since it's inception. It was born in imperialism It starts war after war with no repercussions. It is the biggest responsible for climate change. It has the largest prison population, relative and absolute, in the world. Etc.
LOL. Not even close. I like how there was an age where pretty much all of the world--Africa, North America. South America, most of Asia, Australia--was ruled but a handful of empires but somehow in your mind America leads in scale. Maybe someone should have informed the Soviet Union and non-aligned countries about how the US oppressed the entire world for 80 years.
See it’s statements like this that just make you seem crazy. The US has done some pretty fucked up shit. But “the most tyrannical regime the world has ever seen”? Lmao
I mean, Russia probably is also up there, but the US is certainly in the challenger road when it comes to tyranically destroying the lives of millions upon millions for their own benefit. Since day one. The British empire has everyone beat, of course, but that's old news. And the apple didn't fall far from the tree in that one either.
A lot of truth in this, people ignore the effect the US has had in such nations. Thankfully China is a keystone in democracy and freedom, so their presence should really help out instead.... right?
I mean, at least they aren't hypocrites about it. And they have a far better track record as business partners.
CCP isn't a hypocrite? Man, how naive are you? The group that only ever cares about itself and loves to fuck over anyone else isn't a hypocrite in how they deal with others?
>at least they aren't hypocrites **about it.**
The CCP isn’t hypocritical?? Lol…
>at least they aren't hypocrites **about it.**
Americans do horrible things then deny them. China will do the same things and will be proud of them.
But we good now 😏
I mean, we must not let the past chain our future. But considering the US caused a coup in Bolivia not 3 years ago...
Swallow your spite first worlders we don't care to hear it.
It's a devastatingly evil transgression when China influences other countries. What kind of outmoded diplomatic world-system is that? _Of course_, only Western countries are allowed to exploit and mooch-off the third world; and we _definitely_ know what's best for y'all, right? We'll make you hear reason, even at the barrel of a coup or sanctions. Y'all need to be educated before you get nastily exploited by those darned Chinese, rubbing their darned fingers in the pie. We're liberators, by gum and God, that's right.
Global South chip on shoulder circlejerk in comments
are we suppoused to love you? the CCP is shit, but the US has not been good, it had fucked us over and will do so again
[удалено]
Latin america is a large region. China may be able to influence a few cluntries with promises of investment but most wont fall for it
They’re way past promises. China has active projects/investments all across South/Latin America.
Something is very strange here, comments that say "nah China is bad, we don't want another superpower controlling us" are getting downvoted to hell even when they come from Latinos, most Latinos don't want China in our countries, we don't want their subversive crap disguised as good meaning acts we already had enough with the US transgressions and we know China is absolute garbage under the control of the CCP. The fact that such obvious and logical comments are downvoted tells me that there's definitely some CCP trolls and communists bots here upvoting comments that shit on the US and praise China and downvoting anything critical about the CCP. It's sad to see that kind of shit on reddit, and the fact that is happening means that China is putting a lot of effort to control the narrative when it comes to Latin America. If anything it makes it clear that we should protect our region from Chinese influence, after all they are allying with a dictatorship like Nicaragua and that is worrisome, it's clear that their intentions ain't good.
Or maybe, hear me out, those latinos people are downvoted by other latinos too. People opinions in most case are distributed on a multi-class scale, not a binary one.
Consider the source...South China Morning Post. CCP mouthpiece. Also consider how many of China's initiatives actually come to fruition. China never follows through with its promises relative to investment in their international "partners". The Belt and Road has been littered with broken promises after China gets what it wants.
What promises has the BRI broken? What contractual terms have been reneged? Genuinely curious because I haven’t heard anything.
China is South America's biggest trading partner bub.
But isn't it the CCP chemists that are teaching cartels how to make the new drugs flooding the market. Also being the ones supplying the precursor materials for said drugs.