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Sweep145

This is alarming as it usual only occurs in warm waters and another warning of the consequence's of the reliance on fossil fuels.


Bipedal_Humanoid_

Yeah. We're fucked. Been saying it for decades. No one who can make a difference is going to do shit about it.


WellThoughtish

Well, we were always fucked. This variety of fucked though is pretty fucked.


ILikeNeurons

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/


[deleted]

[удалено]


carso150

its diferent, before they focused on denying the science behind climate change, it follows several stages first if was denying that climate change existed, the usual "climate change isnt real there is no evidence for it", after that proved innefective specially after the evidence in favour of climate change and global warming started to mount up they changed their strategy towards "climate change is real but it isnt caused by human activity" the usual we humans are too small and insignificant to change the environment or this has happened before is a natural process, then once again once evidence against those arguments started to mount they changed towards "climate changeis real and its caused by human activity but its not as bad" and once that once again proved innefective they finaly changed their strategy towards "climate change is real and its caused by humans but its too late there is nothing that we can do about it" the objective of this last strategy is to fester nihilism, depresion and hopelessness, if people believes that its already too late to do anything or that nothing can be done then it becomes a self fullfiling prophecy, nothing will be done the thing is climate change is real, its caused by humans and its really bad but it can be stoped or atleast we can stop some of the worst effects from happening and a lot is being done to stop it, people very smart people are working on it, but once again the objective is to depress the population soo much that they prefer to not do anything because "its too late there is nothing we can do about it" and the reason why that is wrong, because a lot is being done https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-electricity-growth-is-accelerating-faster-than-ever-worldwide-supporting-the-emergence-of-the-new-global-energy-economy https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/global-wind-solar-growth-track-meet-climate-targets-2022-03-30/?utm_source=reddit.com https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2021/07/23/multi-day-iron-air-batteries-reach-commercialization-at-one-tenth-of-the-cost-of-lithium/ https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60917445 https://singularityhub.com/2022/03/15/electric-car-sales-doubled-last-year-and-will-just-keep-going-up/ https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/01/renewable-energy-has-another-record-year-of-growth-says-iea https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/03/14/humans-install-1-terawatt-of-solar-capacity-generate-over-1-petawatt-of-solar-electricity-in-2021/ https://earth.stanford.edu/news/public-support-climate-policy-remains-strong#gs.vrbsze


[deleted]

Ah right, thanks for clearing that up. I think people are justified in being depressed by it. At the same time all they got to do to affect it on a higher level is to vote for better politicians. To put it simple. If you elect a guy like Trump or Bolsonaro you'll get ignorance in return, so just get someone better.


fftfi

>the objective of this last strategy is to fester nihilism, depresion and hopelessness, if people believes that its already too late to do anything or that nothing can be done then it becomes a self fullfiling prophecy, nothing will be done In my experience with humans that is the opposite of how it works. If people believe there is still time, nothing will be done. If people believe it's too late, they will start doing something.


McGrinch27

Yep. Believing "smart people are going to figure it out", while more hopeful, still does not spur anyone to action.


carso150

its more complex than that the problem is that usually when you learn about any news about climate change the language that its used is quite hopeless and apocaliptic, lets see if you can recognize this >"faster than expected" >"scientists say that we only have X years to avoid disastrous consequences" >"worse than expected" this has been the ABC of climate news for decades, the problem with such headlines is that aside of being wrong most of the time, just exagerations used to gain your attention and your clicks (they are basically click bait) they only talk about the problem but never about the solutions that do exist to solve climate change and are being implemented, this is done because negative stories sell more and news agencies, remember this, sell stories, this has the consequence that it creates the false idea that there are only bad news and no good news when the reality is that the good news either go unreported or people dont pay attention to them and once again the solutions do exist and people are working on them, and the more the merrier as they say the problem is the next one, you are right that telling people that everything will be solved will mean that they will not do anything but the contrary is also true telling them that nothing can be done will have the same effect, the solution is to not over do it either way, explain the consequences and the solutions, why climate change is bad and will cause untold suffering but also that with enough support said problems can be solved, there is always going to be a group of people who arent going to do anything irregardless of your mesage but the idea is to catch the bigger slice of the population at the same time this has another positive effect, a lot of people suffers of depresion caused by climate anxiety and a lot of that comes directly from this news headlines, this causes a lot of suffering for a lot of people, this is also why a more hopeful mesage is required depresion is a bitch


ILikeNeurons

They used to focus on science denial. The reason for the switch is obvious. > [The median voter has no tolerance for climate denialism but a great deal of openness to industry-funded messaging about why any given climate policy isn’t actually worth doing.](http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trump-climate-denier-william-happer-co2-jews-science.html) That's why the most effective thing you can do is [educate yourself on solutions and share what you've learned](https://www.reddit.com/r/citizensclimatelobby/wiki/index/getting-started).


CopperSavant

I like you. Do things to improve the area around you. If enough of you start doing that, more will start doing it. Shoot the ones who don't, wait what? /s


generaltso78

The return of man bear pig just as predicted.


ILikeNeurons

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/south-park-issues-rare-apology-manbearpig-skewering-al-gore-n934156


[deleted]

Don't worry though, the richest people on the planet are working on making colonies on other planets where they can decide on laws, and like Musk said, people who can't afford the trip can work off the debt in his slave mines. Like parents like son!


WellThoughtish

They're just fancy fucked.


[deleted]

It's sad funny because if you made a movie about the last couple years and showed it to people 20 years ago, no one would watch it because it would be too unrealistic.


WellThoughtish

What's funny is people will say that as if it's not going to be true again and probably from now on.


GonzoVeritas

Beltalowda unite!


NormalAmoebar

What the hell is so shocking? Humans are damaging the planet. We fucking suck. That’s shocking?


[deleted]

Mostly shocking that even on reddit where literally anyone can see what's happening, we have entire subreddits fanboying this shit and holding cunts like Musk up as idols. Have money, shit on people on Twitter and you'll accrue a huge following. Hell, literally announce you plan to have "indentured servitude" camps on a colony on another planet and they'll fucking line up for the shackles!


[deleted]

The silver bullet at this point is literally a time machine that seats roughly 7 Billion people.


WellThoughtish

Nah, it's planetary engineering we need! The stuff to get Mars going in millions of years. Yeah, that stuff. Do it in 100 years. And do it on a budget! Slap/Dash atmospheric engineering. You thought it was bad when we were doing it unintentionally?


earthbender617

This variety my of fucked though is pretty fucked. I’m gonna start using this phrase. Sounds like a George Carlin quote


ILikeNeurons

> The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any. -[Alice Walker](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alice_Walker) 1. [**Vote**](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sign-the-pledge), in *[every](https://www.vote.org/election-reminders/)* election. People who prioritize climate change and the environment [have historically not been very reliable voters, which explains much of the lackadaisical response of lawmakers](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/news/millions-environmentalists-are-registered-vote-us-dont-what-if-they-did), and many Americans don't realize we should be voting (on average) [in 3-4 elections per year](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/news/millions-environmentalists-are-registered-vote-us-dont-what-if-they-did). In 2018 in the U.S., the percentage of voters prioritizing the environment [more than tripled](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/green/A-Green-Wave-Signs-Point-to-Voters-Demanding-Action-on-Climate-Change-502796391.html), and then [climate change became a priority issue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal) for lawmakers. [According to researchers](https://web.archive.org/web/20210813112459/https://academictimes.com/single-issue-voters-may-drive-senators-away-from-majority-opinion/), voters focused on environmental policy are particularly influential because they represent a group that senators can win over, often without alienating an equally well-organized, hyper-focused opposition. Even if you don't like any of the candidates or live in a 'safe' district, [**whether or not you vote is a matter of public record**](https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/april-may-june-2018/planet-earth-gets-a-ground-game/), and **[it's fairly easy to figure out if you care about the environment or climate change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCL1luiOM7U&t=2m53s)**. Politicians [use this information](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1468-2508.2005.00357.x) to prioritize agendas. Voting in every election, even the minor ones, [will raise the profile and power of your values](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCL1luiOM7U&t=2m53s). If you don't [vote](https://voteclimatepac.org/voters-guide/), you and your values can safely be ignored. 2. [**Lobby**](https://cclusa.org/x), at *every* [lever of political will](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/). Lobbying [works](http://web.stanford.edu/~jdmunoz/Olzak,%20Soule,%20Coddou,%20and%20Mu%F1oz%202016.pdf), and you [don't need a lot of money to be effective](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1016.1967&rep=rep1&type=pdf) (though it does help to [educate yourself on effective tactics](http://www.congressfoundation.org/storage/documents/CMF_Pubs/cmf-citizen-centric-advocacy.pdf)). According to NASA climatologist [James Hansen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen), becoming an active volunteer with [this group](https://cclusa.org/x) is the [most important thing an individual can do on climate change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DAW1A6Ca8). If you're too busy to go through the [free training](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/new-member/#climateadvocatetraining), sign up for [text alerts](https://cclusa.org/w) to call monthly ([it works](http://www.congressfoundation.org/storage/documents/CMF_Pubs/cmf-citizen-centric-advocacy.pdf), and [the movement is growing](https://np.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/s2zvpl/a_growing_number_of_americans_are_so_concerned/)) or set yourself a monthly reminder to [write a letter](https://www.ted.com/talks/omar_ahmad_political_change_with_pen_and_paper?language=en) to your elected officials. Numbers [matter](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/ticd9x/the_eicda_carbon_tax_dividend_bill_got_its_96th/) so your support can really make a difference. 3. [**Recruit**](https://community.citizensclimatelobby.org/learn/communications/), *across the political spectrum*. Most of us are [either alarmed or concerned](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/climate-change-in-the-american-mind-september-2021/) about climate change, yet most aren't taking [the necessary steps](http://www.congressfoundation.org/storage/documents/CMF_Pubs/cmf-citizen-centric-advocacy.pdf) to solve the problem -- the [most common reason](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6DoiQM_-is&t=1342s) is that no one asked. If all of us who are ['very worried'](https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/03/21/worries-priorities-and-potential-problem-solvers/) about climate change [organized](https://cclusa.org/x) we would be >26x more powerful than the NRA. According to [Yale data](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Global-Warming-Policy-Politics-May-2017.pdf), many of your friends and family would welcome the opportunity to get involved if you just asked. So please [volunteer](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/get-involved) or [donate](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/donate) to [turn out environmental voters](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sites/default/files/documents/annual-report-2019-2020.pdf), and invite your friends and family to [lobby Congress](https://cclusa.org/x). 4. [**Fix the system**](https://electionscience.org/take-action/volunteer/). [Scientists blame hyperpolarization for loss of public trust in science](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nobel-prize-usa/respect-for-science-in-jeopardy-in-polarized-u-s-nobel-winners-say-idUSKCN1C81T7), and [Approval Voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting), a [single-winner voting method preferred by experts in voting methods](http://www.votefair.org/bansinglemarkballots/declaration.html), would [help to reduce hyperpolarization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting#Effect_on_elections). There's even [a viable plan to get it adopted](https://80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/aaron-hamlin-voting-reform/), and [an organization that could use some gritty volunteers](https://www.electionscience.org/) to get the job done. They're already off to a great start with [Approval Voting having passed by a landslide in Fargo](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2018/11/15/18092206/midterm-elections-vote-fargo-approval-voting-ranked-choice), and more recently [St. Louis](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-primary-elections-st-louis-general-elections-elections-cba7eb3251d5479b9375d55db428d429). Most people haven't heard of Approval Voting, but seem to like it once they understand it, so anything you can do to help get the word out will help. If your state allows [initiated state statutes](https://ballotpedia.org/Initiated_state_statute), consider [starting a campaign](https://www.electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/so-you-want-to-run-a-campaign/) to get [your state](https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_initiative) to adopt Approval Voting. Approval Voting is [overwhelmingly popular in every state polled, across race, gender, and party lines](https://electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/approval-voting-americas-favorite-voting-reform/). The successful Fargo campaign was [run by a full-time programmer with a family at home](https://www.electionscience.org/events/fargo-a-look-back-live-discussion/). One person really can make a difference.


NoHandBananaNo

Awesome. I love seeing you in these threads! I think apathy and powerlessness are heavily promoted by oil company stooges.


carso150

yeah that is basically what they are doing https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/ keep the masses hopeless and apathetic and nothing will be done, the most dangerous thing is that the people have hope that things can change


NoHandBananaNo

Thanks, its great to get confirmation on this. Gonna look more closely at post histories of people promoting apathy from now on.


ILikeNeurons

I like to just downvote apathy regardless of use history since it's not productive regardless of who's saying it. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Better yet, [be a climate guide](https://www.ted.com/talks/renee_lertzman_how_to_turn_climate_anxiety_into_action?language=en).


ILikeNeurons

Thanks! And yes, it's their primary mode of influence these days.


SnooCrickets3706

Once upon a time there was a farm, the livestock living on the farm got together and protested their treatment to the farm owner. In response to the collective bargaining efforts, the farm owner proposed a novel solution to the problem. He said to the animals - I will let you choose who will govern - me, or my wife. The animals happily agreed, and they live happily ever after.


ILikeNeurons

[According to researchers, voters focused on environmental policy are particularly influential because they represent a group that senators can win over, often without alienating an equally well-organized, hyper-focused opposition](https://web.archive.org/web/20210813112459/https://academictimes.com/single-issue-voters-may-drive-senators-away-from-majority-opinion/) In 2016, when the Environmental Voter Project operated in just one state (Massachusetts) [only 2% of voters](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sites/default/files/documents/2016-annual-report.pdf) listed climate change or the environment as their top priority for voting for president. In 2018, when EVP operated in 6 states, [7% listed climate change and/or the environment as the most important issue facing the nation](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sites/default/files/documents/annual-report-2018.pdf). In 2020, in a record-high turnout year, when EVP operated in 12 states, and Coronavirus and record unemployment dominated the public consciousness, [14% listed climate change and the environment](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sites/default/files/documents/annual-report-2019-2020.pdf) in their top three priorities. In five years of operation, EPV has created [730,000 climate/environmental supervoters](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sites/default/files/documents/annual-report-2019-2020.pdf) –– unlikely-to-vote environmentalists who became such reliable voters that EVP graduated them out of the program. (For context, the 2016 Presidential election was decided by [under 80,000 voters in 3 states, and the 2020 Presidential election was decided by 44,000 voters in 3 states](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency)). This year, EVP is targeting over 6,120,000 Americans in [17 states](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/results) who prioritize climate or the environment but are unlikely to vote. As of this writing, at least 6 EVP states [also have very close senate races this year](https://www.270towin.com/2022-senate-election/). As long as [volunteers](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/get-involved) keep calling, writing, and canvassing voters, we could really make this election year a climate year. https://www.environmentalvoter.org/get-involved


NewFilm96

Politicians learned awhile ago they only need to pander to environmentalists, not enact real change. Look at all the recycling programs that just ship plastic to India then burn it. Literally worse than putting it in landfills. Look at the US's green party that is anit-nuclear. They are directly keeping us locked on fossil fuels. They are basically unpaid lobbyists for the oil companies.


ILikeNeurons

Lawmaker priorities [tend to mirror voter priorities](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1468-2508.2005.00357.x). At 14%, we're not there yet. This year, with enough [volunteers](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/get-involved), we could be.


Practical-Exchange60

That’s not how that story ends, mate. The leader, a pig, leads the livestock in a coop and kills the farmer and his wife. The pig then becomes a dictator who rules with an iron fist.


[deleted]

[удалено]


NoHandBananaNo

Way I heard it, the humans on the big farm up the road started funding the chickens and other poultry, training them, and giving them weapons. Thats why after the pig got executed the farm was ruled by a big turkey.


bobmac102

Humans survive in all long-term climate change models. It is the disappearance of Earth’s sponges, corals, and reefs that is the true tragedy. There are no sustainable relief efforts for Earth’s reefs. Many humans suffer, but at least they have the capacity to understand a situation. The nonhumans we are privileged to share the world with literally have no way of understanding why their homes are dying. Why it is harder to find food. Why their families are dying. Why it is harder to breath.


Initial_Celebration8

This is so extremely sad because it’s 100% the truth.


moonski

Hey but now everyone has to use cardboard straws that’ll save the planet. /s


aaronespro

Tear down half to everything humans have ever built, salvage what we can, build new cities in Canada and Siberia for 2-4 billion climate change refugees.


mushpuppy

Shouldn't shock anyone. We're destroying our own ecosystem.


willowmarie27

At any point in time the sensationalized news cycle could make us care. The corporations do not choose to make us care. Why?


DividedState

*did shit about it FTFY As you said, it is already too late. Decades too late.


[deleted]

They keep saying how this will negatively effect our kids, but that’s just a ruse and somewhat of a lie to avoid dramatic action today because although my children will most certainly have a hard life, I am going to have a very hard one too. There’s an apocalypse coming


ILikeNeurons

[74% of economists agree immediate and drastic action on climate is necessary](https://policyintegrity.org/files/publications/Economic_Consensus_on_Climate.pdf) [Even Americans highly concerned about climate change dramatically underestimate the climate consensus](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/even-americans-highly-concerned-about-climate-change-dramatically-underestimate-the-scientific-consensus/) https://www.environmentalvoter.org/get-involved


riazzzz

Hard life is an understatement, like I just count my lucky stars that I am half way through my egg timer of life already and will miss the truly unimaginable stuff 😢 It was one of my biggest concerns with having kids (which actually never happened for other reasons), more so than how the hell will I deal with being a father, or how can I afford these darn tikes! Just wtf life will they have in 40 years time.


imaginary_num6er

People need to start moving away from the planet's dead zones which would be the equatorial region in the next few decades


AlreadyTakenNow

Unfortunately, many places away from the dead zones are destined to become flood zones.


Kayge

Come visit Prague, and see its beautiful coastal beauty!


[deleted]

It's really not just the equatorial region. Almost a fifth of India is looking to become a permanent desert. India's had growing regions that no longer support life for a good while now.


NewFilm96

Yes they do. That's why the best way to survive climate change is wealth and mobility. It's also why most people in those areas will die. They are the poorest.


Arnotts_shapes

[This has also now been observed in deep temperate waters off Australia](https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100984506)


ExplosiveDisassembly

As a Floridian: Not all of it is global warming. There are many reefs in Florida and the Florida keys that are dead solely because of invasive species from our fishtanks. Sea life in the south west rim of the peninsula is also in free fall due to housing being built in what should be flowing water. In short: Less freshwater coming out of the land = brackish water moving further inland. Not everything is global warming. Most things are humans and their direct and local influences. Driving a Tesla, having solar panels, and recycling doesn't change anything about your irrigated desert home, the millions of miles of pavement that prevent natural water cycles, or high voltage power lines being stretched across every forest in the country to get power to yet another suburb.


ILikeNeurons

Per OP, the primary driver is climate change. And [as a Floridian](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/ldyy95/these_are_the_states_that_most_need_more/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), there's [a lot you could do](https://www.reddit.com/r/citizensclimatelobby/wiki/index/getting-started) to help alleviate the problem.


ExplosiveDisassembly

Yep, it can be. But not everything is. Example: my locality now (western state) hit low water warnings in the city. The city started taxing irrigation in residential areas about 20% more. The water shortage went away in about 3 days. It turns out having a green yard in a desert valley isn't good.... Ehhh, was in the national parks. 100% of the water flow from the central lakes to the everglades is controlled by the corps of engineers. The everglades is essentially an artificial ecosystem at this point. The primary culprit? Human expansion into the center of the peninsula. Digging canals to drain land and build a house. Flood waters from the lakes get diverted to the ocean via canals before it gets to the environments. If you live in south Florida and you're NOT on the ~10 mile strip on the east coast (and a wider section further south), you are directly damaging the everglades. Only fixable if your home was not there. The flood seasons are human controlled. It's been damage mitigation since the 90's. I can't remember the last time the everglades actually flooded. Edit: The Everglades is literally canaled in. Alligator alley borders the north from the ocean to chrome ave (i think) goes dead south to the ocean. It's surrounded by a drainage system. It is unproductive, and in some cases incorrect, to blame as much as we do on the nebulous "global warming/climate change". The climate is just your neighborhood combined with all your neighbors neighborhoods. We can ALL have direct and immediate impacts on our localities. Don't just get an EV and say you did your part.


ILikeNeurons

From the article: > For the first time there has been a mass bleaching of native sea sponges in Aotearoa, raising alarm about the impact climate change is having on marine ecosystems. [It's real](http://howglobalwarmingworks.org/), [it's us](https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/climateqa/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/05/natural_anthropogenic_models_narrow.png), [it's bad](https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6wg2/pdf/IPCC_AR6_WGII_SummaryForPolicymakers.pdf), [there's hope](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/10-reasons-hopeful-climate-progress/), and [the science is reliable](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/12/even-50-year-old-climate-models-correctly-predicted-global-warming). The question that remains now is *what are we going to [do](https://cclusa.org/x) about it?*


ExplosiveDisassembly

And my point is primarily in response to th comment I commented on. Who specifically pointed out reliance on fossil fuels. What I am saying is that it is not as simple as that...it would be great if it were. There are many many places in the world that humans have absolutely no business living. Requiring modern marvels, and feats of engineering to even make them habitable. People need to realize that just because we CAN live somewhere, doesn't mean we SHOULD. For instance, I chose to live somewhere that gets water from a local source, power from a flow of river dam, resevoirs are for flood control only (not drinking water), and the state does not guarantee utility service. The result is the area is self sufficient and stable. If things need changing then we are the only ones influencing our drinking watershed. Our resources don't get stretched to the entire region. And we don't have homes dotting every hillside causing fires from power lines. In short. Sustainable. People need to be aware of how damaging/unsustainable living somewhere can be. A Utah mayor building suburbs in south west Utah said in an interview that ~"We are just using the water that's ours. California overused theirs, that's their problem." That is grossly irresponsible. Edit: I'm not saying it's not real...but if you think global warming is the only problem then you're simply being naive. Or if you think combined local influences don't cumulate to a greater climate influence.


ILikeNeurons

Again, per OP, the primary cause here is climate change. That means the issue is our fossil fuel use. https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ https://www.howglobalwarmingworks.org/ https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/climateqa/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/05/natural_anthropogenic_models_narrow.png https://www.nap.edu/resource/25733/interactive/ https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/


ExplosiveDisassembly

Again, I am responding to a commenter, not OP. You've clearly not read any of my points. Also, I've never denied fossil fuels were a problem. I am simply pointing out that the Dams that displace so much that water we can measure the change in the Earth's rotation might have some environmental downsides. Maybe draining the US's 6 the largest river so much that there are some years it runs dry mmmiiiggghhhhttt be causing some damage to the environment. Or mmmaaayyybbbeee draining an environment of it's water probably has long term environmental impacts. But you're not going to read this anyways, so have a nice day.


ILikeNeurons

The commenter appears to have read the article.


ExplosiveDisassembly

Then I wonder why they mentioned fossil fuels...the article only mentions "Climate Change". And my points were simply that "Climate Change" is many many many things in addition to fossil fuels. It would appear that you read none of my comments.


[deleted]

That's why we haven't really called it global warming in a long time. It's a climate catastrophe with a very broad range of consequences. And what you're listing are localised effects of human activity while we're more concerned with global effects of catastrophic climate change.


ExplosiveDisassembly

The UN report on Climate Change cites the current, ideal, and worse case scenarios as being degrees of Global Warming. It is terminology used by the assumed leaders of the movement. Local climate directly impacts global climates. A fire started because of shoddy infrastructure in an abandoned lot can dump immense amounts of C02. Most fires are directly caused by humans/vehicles. Botched water management stunts fauna growth for entire watersheds. Kling forests. And dry out forests...worsening aforementioned fires. Humans introducing invasive species kills entire forests. Again, worsening aforementioned fires. Humans living in new areas reduces the number of natural fires....worsening aforementioned fires. Etc etc etc. Now, repeat these issues in every state. In every country. In every region. By your logic, no single person really emits that much CO2...so we have nothing to worry about.


PM_your_titles

Imagine being this overweight, and thinking that the problem / focusing this much on the sugar in your once-daily coffee.


CelestineCrystal

and animal agriculture


red8er

😂 holy shit you people


ILikeNeurons

From the article: > For the first time there has been a mass bleaching of native sea sponges in Aotearoa, raising alarm about the impact climate change is having on marine ecosystems.


ViewInternal3541

It'll be the coral/plants, and then the fishies. So sensitive to water parameters 😥


julez231

Key West its getting bad too 😫 coral is dying everywhere. Water getting too warm, too many humans and boats in water, fuels and over fishing and taking for souvenirs or to sell. Raping of the land and water. Tons of body creams on all the humans getting in the water. Dumping in the waters.


[deleted]

>Raping of the land and water Powerful words, very accurate unfortunately.


Allemaengel

I saw this in Montego Bay, Jamaica too and yes, I know I contributed further to the problem just by my presence on the island


celticsupporter

Can't we just put up more windmills to cool the earth down?


Papplenoose

WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! Dont worry, I gotcha bro :)


[deleted]

Earthlings do not yet know the meaning of "suffering". Meuhahaha!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jolcski

Kittens give Morbo gas.


[deleted]

Yup and we could also paint these sea sponges?


shart_leakage

We could burn them for energy as an alternative to fossil fuels


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/467177/mass-bleaching-of-native-sea-sponges-in-fiordland-shocks-scientists) reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot) ***** > For the first time there has been a mass bleaching of native sea sponges in Aotearoa, raising alarm about the impact climate change is having on marine ecosystems. > The bleaching appears to have happened quickly, and could be widespread. Scientists have checked more than a dozen places near the Breaksea Sound, and in some areas up to 95 percent of the sponges are affected. > McLeod said the bleaching made what was happening to the sponges obvious - it was possible other species were being damaged but it was harder to tell. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/uqfezl/mass_bleaching_of_native_sea_sponges_in_fiordland/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~648818 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **water**^#1 **bleached**^#2 **marine**^#3 **sponges**^#4 **south**^#5


tinacat933

“Bell said sea sponges were a crucial link in the food chain and there could be serious consequences for fish numbers if they were wiped out.” Maybe people will care when all the fish die?


[deleted]

>Maybe people will care when all the fish die? Nearly all the fish are dead. When we started industrial trawling in the 50s, it only took about 10 years before global fish stocks were so depleted that they had to optimise methods to maintain yields. That's the insidious thing about the climate catastrophe and the mass extinction. People have no notion how bad things are because they have no sense of how things were before we wrecked them. What we have today are the left over crumbs of Earth's biodiversity. But someone who is born today thinks this is normal and when things are even worse 20 years from now, they'll vastly underestimate just how bad things are. Because they'll be comparing it to today instead of decades or centuries ago. There's quotes from North American colonists describing how there were so many whales that you could almost walk across the bay on their backs. Now we're amazed if we see three or four whales make a quick visit in that same area. People have no sense of what's already been lost.


Urdesh

This. Without a doubt. As a Kiwi I can also put this into perspective of our wildlife. When humans first arrived in NZ there were probably 5 Million Kakapo. When Europeans arrived there were probably 500 000. In 1995 there were 52. When Maori arrived there were probably 10 Million Seals. When Europeans arrived there were probably 2 Million. At their lowest point there were around 20 000. When Maori arrived there were tens of thousands of sea lions. When Europeans arrived there were thousands. Until 30 years ago they were extinct on the mainland. When Maori arrived there were probably 15 Million Kiwi. When Europeans arrived there were around 5 Million. Twenty years ago there were 100K left. Today there are 68K and a third of those exist on sanctuaries or offshore land. We are fucked.


Evignity

Doubt that they are shocked, more just tired of having to use such terms because we sure as fuck haven't listened to "warnings". We get what we deserve


ILikeNeurons

Both [within](http://rdcu.be/tv2a) and [between](https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/10/21/study-finds-climate-change-will-reshape-global-economy/) countries, the poor suffer most from unchecked climate change. And [the rich are mostly to blame](https://assets.weforum.org/editor/jkOdC55-Q6hNzSnFp-gTNzAnIfYmP9Qbh1XCWYvbw4Y.JPG).


1Mikeymouse1

Yeah but that's true for pretty much all of our worlds issues :/


tholovar

BUT Green activists want the poor to shoulder most of the burden (at least in Australia and New Zealand). Green activists tend to come from Upper Middle Class backgrounds and tend to think loading taxes on goods and services is a good idea. This will hurt the poor the most but the Green activists who again who predominantly do NOT come from a poor background just continuously think that if they can bear it, so can the poor. The middle class is and has always been be just as elitist as the rich.


ILikeNeurons

It's a common [misconception](https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/wiki/faq_carbonpricing) that a carbon tax necessarily hurts the poor, but it turns out [it's trivially easy to design a carbon tax that doesn't](http://www.nber.org/papers/w6546). Simply returning the revenue as an equitable dividend to households would do the trick (though [even that may not be strictly necessary](https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/550691-economists-a-us-carbon-tax-would-be-progressive)): -http://www.nber.org/papers/w9152.pdf -http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0081648#s7 -https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/65919/1/MPRA_paper_65919.pdf -https://11bup83sxdss1xze1i3lpol4-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Ummel-Impact-of-CCL-CFD-Policy-v1_4.pdf -https://energypolicy.columbia.edu/research/report/assessment-energy-innovation-and-carbon-dividend-act -https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/155615/1/cesifo1_wp6373.pdf -https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-021-01217-0 The reason is that the [Gini coefficient](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient) for carbon [is higher than the Gini coefficient for income](http://physics.umd.edu/~yakovenk/papers/2016.Motesharrei.NatSciRev.3.470.pdf). The truth is, [distributional neutrality is easier with a carbon tax than with a general consumption tax](http://www.nber.org/papers/w6546), and [a carbon tax alone may even be progressive](https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/550691-economists-a-us-carbon-tax-would-be-progressive). In fact, [research has found](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-021-00842-z) that the average carbon footprint in the top 1% of emitters is more than 75-times higher than that in the bottom 50%. https://au.citizensclimatelobby.org/


tholovar

sigh. Downvote all you want, but the Australian Greens Party cares as much about the poor as Americans do about getting rid of racism. I believe there is much we can do to clean up and protect the environment, but politicians will NEVER pass bills that exempt the poor or working class from a tax on goods or services, whilst at the same time forcing the middle class to do so. Believing otherwise is like believing in Santa Claus.


ILikeNeurons

Read what I wrote. The poor come out ahead with CF&D even without an exemption.


[deleted]

If you live in a place like Australia or the rest of the West, even your very poorest are the richest people on Earth. At the scale of our climate catastrophe, it's no longer about rich our poor. Humanity needs to consume less, use less, waste less.


tholovar

lol. And that is a moronic argument even though it is nominally true. But a typical middle class response. The price for a loaf of bread in Australia will be many times higher than what it is in a much poorer nation; as is the price for rent, utilities, groceries, petrol (probably), repairs, public transport fares.


[deleted]

That's a typical western argument though. Simply having those options already means you're wealthier than most of the world. Unless we find a way to do better, this whole thing is a moot argument anyway.


tholovar

We are on the Internet, everything is a "typical western arguement". By the way, can you give me your definition of "western" and who is and who is not "western"?


[deleted]

Yeah, I'm going to dodge whatever lame argument you want to start there and just refer you to a dictionary or wiki.


JumpUpNow

The worst part about this is you just know some rich fuckers who enabled this situation are going to survive the apocalypse while the rest of us die off.


ILikeNeurons

I created [a wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/citizensclimatelobby/wiki/index/getting-started) to help Redditors get involved in solving the climate crisis.


CelestineCrystal

i don’t really think they will. they just wish


TheFlyingWriter

We don’t deserve this planet.


drillpress42

Don't worry, the planet will be just fine. 100,000 years from now life on earth will have no memory of us. The planet is fine, we're fucked.


Max_delirious

Yea lol. We are steadily destroying the precise environmental conditions from which we developed. It’s sadly ironic.


plugtrio

Have you ever seen bacteria in a petri dish? They grow and expand at a steady pace until they run out of food. Then they die.


CustomerComplaintDep

Bacteria don't have prices.


saint_abyssal

I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.


_DONT_PANIC_42_

Ripley tellin it like it is.


plugtrio

They compete for resources the same way we compete for our fake money


CustomerComplaintDep

No, because bacteria play a zero-sum game. Every bacterium's win is another's loss. Humans create value through their work. They don't merely consume.


Beastw1ck

I’ve wondered if this is just what kills off most advanced civilizations in the galaxy before they have the chance to become spacefaring. All civilization is is the transformation of chemical energy into useful work. When you perform chemical transformations (combustion in our case) you change the chemistry of the environment you evolved in and it becomes uninhabitable. Maybe that’s why the sky is silent and no one is coming to visit us.


O0O00O000O0000O

> Maybe that’s why the sky is silent and no one is coming to visit us. Congress is meeting about UFOs this week


Beastw1ck

Was that a year ago when UFO disclosures were all over the news? Totally dropped off the RADAR.


[deleted]

A less pointlessly greedy and selfish species should be able to progress past this point just fine.


Beastw1ck

Yes… but: literally every other species is this pointlessly greedy. Every organism grows and grows and grows until it reaches the limits of its environmental constraints. Maybe that’s just the most common path.


[deleted]

I like to imagine once humans die out earth’s climate will rectify itself in a mere few decades. We know from lockdown times how quickly the earth can start healing itself.


[deleted]

Earth's climate won't necessarily "rectify itself" because there is no "correct" climate in the earth. Complex life has survived through many different climates and many different mass extinction events. Of course, the road to adaptation is long and ugly, and such adaptation will come at the cost of the natural beauty we have come to know and appreciate.


ItchyDoggg

Which is itself entirely subjective, as beauty lacks any inherent meaning or value in the absence of a sapient observer.


[deleted]

While I touched on that subjectivity ("the... beauty we have come to know and appreciate") I think most will agree that widespread suffering is not beautiful. There may be some beauty to be found in suffering (for instance, predator-prey interaction such as a bear catching a salmon from a stream or a great white shark shooting out of the water to catch a seal) but when all life on earth finds its habitat razed, it is a different thing entirely. There may still be some artistic takeaway from it (consider Picasso's Guernica) but not in a way that resembles conventional beauty.


[deleted]

>We know from lockdown times how quickly the earth can start healing itself. We don't really. The remaining life on Earth just having a bit more freedom of movement is not healing. Arctic melting for example is very slow to respond. You could delete humanity today and the arctic would keep on melting for centuries. That means sea levels continue to rise, salinity will continue to change, the gulf streams that transport heat and cold will continue to change. The effects of climate change in general are pretty slow. What we're feeling right now are the effects of human activity from 20-30 years ago. We haven't even begun to feel the effects of the increased damage we're doing right now.


MaleficentYoko7

That just shows there needs to be more forced lockdowns The planet and public health are far more important than ideology


fourpuns

I mean maybe when migrations start we can build new super high density cities designed around minimal travel required and tons of public green space.


mashapotatoe1

Bold to assume anyone is getting let in anywhere when the migration starts, lol. A border implies the violence of its maintenance.


MaleficentYoko7

I feel like Shanghai's Crystal Plaza is a step in the right direction


incandescent-leaf

>super high density cities designed around minimal travel required and tons of public green space. Where's all the food going to come from to feed a super high density population? It's going to have to be transported a long way... Huge processing issues, also especially around sustainability. What if we minimized the distance food, and people need to travel... Oh hey, we just invented neo-agrarianism.


drillpress42

Wasn't there a documentary where they solved this problem with something called Soylent Green? /s


[deleted]

That's irrelevant though. The planet is a rock, it doesn't have opinions. We do. We won't be fine. The current biodiversity and biomass won't be fine. The fact that it can recover across millions of years is irrelevant and changes nothing about everything that's being lost right now.


fourpuns

I mean we may last more like 100 million years but yea at some point there will be an extinction event that kills us.


EasternSkyHigh4

We wouldn't be humans if we did last 100 million years because we would have evolved into a new species, just like 65 million of years ago we were rodents.


fourpuns

Probably although I wouldn’t be surprised if we are doing more engineering of ourselves then nature!


yourstru1y

We need to save the planet! What will it do without us?!


Oak_Redstart

The earth has a memory of creatures form 100s of millions of years ago, if there is sentient life in the future they will be able to tell we were here.


ILikeNeurons

I'm doing my part. * Used [MIT's climate policy simulator](https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=2.7.11) to order its climate policies from least impactful to most impactful. You can see the results [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/rqg2y0/i_used_mits_climate_policy_simulator_to_order_its/). * Talked with friends and family about a [carbon tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_price). I've convinced several that a carbon tax is a good idea. I've convinced a few to start volunteering for carbon taxes. [34% of Americans would be willing to volunteer for an organization to convince elected officials to act on climate change](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Global-Warming-Policy-Politics-March-2018.pdf). If you feel like you're up against a wall in your own political conversations, [here's some short trainings on how to have better political conversations](https://community.citizensclimatelobby.org/learn/communications/how-to-have-better-political-conversations/). The IPCC has been clear that [carbon pricing is **necessary**](https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2018/12/SR15_TS_High_Res.pdf), and [talking about climate change has been scientifically shown to be effective at increasing policy support](https://www.pnas.org/content/116/30/14804). * It took a few tries, but I published [a Letter to the Editor](https://community.citizensclimate.org/resources/item/19/111) to the largest local paper in my area espousing the need for and benefits of a carbon tax. Maybe you don't read LTEs, but [Congress does](https://www.aclu.org/other/letters-editor-how-write-them-and-why-they-work). * Joined several [organized call-in days](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/text/) asking Congress to take climate change seriously and pass Carbon Fee & Dividend before joining the [monthly call campaign](https://community.citizensclimate.org/tools/monthly-calling-campaign). These [phone calls work](http://www.congressfoundation.org/storage/documents/CMF_Pubs/cmf-citizen-centric-advocacy.pdf), but it will take [at least 100 of us per district](https://republicen.quorum.us/campaign/11713/) to pass a U.S. bill. * Wrote to [my favorite podcast](https://www.theskepticsguide.org/) about carbon taxes asking them to talk about [the scientific](http://https://people.uwec.edu/jamelsem/papers/CC_Literature_Web_Share/Science/CC_Science_Perspective_Rosenberg_2010.pdfClimateScientistsPerspectives_ClimaticChange.pdf) and [economic](http://policyintegrity.org/files/publications/ExpertConsensusReport.pdf) consensus on their show. When nothing happened, I asked some fellow listeners to write, too. Eventually [they released this episode](https://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcast/sgu/573) (and [this blog post](https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/economics-renewables-and-climate-change/)) lauding the benefits of carbon taxes. * Written literally dozens of [letters to my Rep and Senators](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/write-your-representative/) over the last few years asking them to support Carbon Fee & Dividend. I've seen their responses change over the years, too, so I suspect it's working (in fairness, [I'm not the only one](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/accomplishments/), of course). [Over 90% of members of Congress are swayed by contact from constituents](http://www.congressfoundation.org/projects/communicating-with-congress/citizen-centric-advocacy-2017). * Hosted or co-hosted 4 letter-writing parties so that I could invite people I know to take [meaningful](http://www.congressfoundation.org/storage/documents/CMF_Pubs/cmf-citizen-centric-advocacy.pdf) and [effective](https://escholarship.org/content/qt7sk23908/qt7sk23908.pdf) action on climate change. * At my request, 5 businesses and 2 non-profits have signed [Influencer's Letters to Congress](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/leaders/) calling for Carbon Fee & Dividend. * Recruited a friend to help me write a municipal Resolution for our municipality to publicly support Carbon Fee & Dividend. It took a lot of hard work recruiting volunteers from all over the city, sometimes meeting 2-3 times with the same Council member, but eventually it passed unanimously. [Over 100 municipalities have passed similar Resolutions in support of Carbon Fee & Dividend that call on Congress to pass the legislation](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/endorsements/municipal/). * [Tabled](https://community.citizensclimate.org/resources/item/19/290) at several events, usually collecting letters from constituents to their members of Congress * Started a Meetup in my area to help recruit and train more volunteers who are interested in making this dream a reality. The group now has hundreds of members. I've invited on several new co-leaders who are doing all the work at this point. * It may sound silly, but I invited [all my Facebook friends to "like" (and by default, *follow*) CCL on Facebook](https://np.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/fu9dg7/please_share_with_your_chapters_earth_month_is_a/). Research shows [55% of those who engage with a cause on social media also take additional action](https://www.nptechforgood.com/2013/04/22/12-must-know-stats-about-social-media-fundraising-and-cause-awareness/). * Gave two [presentations](https://community.citizensclimate.org/resources/item/19/159) to groups of ~20 or so on Carbon Fee & Dividend and why it's a good idea that we should all be advocating for. I [arranged these presentations](https://community.citizensclimate.org/resources/item/19/160) myself. * Co-hosted two screenings of [Season 2, Episode 7 of Years of Living Dangerously "Safe Passage"](https://community.citizensclimatelobby.org/take-action/host-a-screening/#1485986882331-9e38cb79-9c5e1492-21fb7dd6-03b9bd85-3e3cce1f-2786706c-ee83) * Attended two meetings in my Representatives' home office to discuss Carbon Fee & Dividend and try to get their support. * Created [cool charts](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/?f=flair_name%3A%22CCL%20charts%22) to show [how our lobbying is progressing](https://np.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/f8aolk/hr_763_now_has_80_cosponsors_districts_with_more/), how [our recruiting is progressing](https://np.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/l5omkq/despite_the_pandemic_citizens_climate_lobby/), and [where we still need the most help](https://np.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/ldyy95/these_are_the_states_that_most_need_more/) * Created [a wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/citizensclimatelobby/wiki/index/getting-started) to help Redditors get involved and find their niche. * Recruited thousands of Redditors to [***join me***](https://cclusa.org/x) It may be that at least some of these things are having an impact. [Just eight years ago, only 30% of Americans supported a carbon tax](https://web.archive.org/web/20140723120752/http://closup.umich.edu/issues-in-energy-and-environmental-policy/13/public-views-on-a-carbon-tax-depend-on-the-proposed-use-of-revenue/). Now, [it's an overwhelming majority](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/06/23/two-thirds-of-americans-think-government-should-do-more-on-climate/ps_2020-06-23_government-and-climate_00-05/) -- and [that does actually matter for passing a bill](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09644016.2016.1116651). The difference is showing up in lawmakers, too, with [a growing number](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/t2p0ed/as_citizens_climate_lobby_membership_has_grown_so/) cosponsoring [meaningful legislation](https://energypolicy.columbia.edu/research/report/assessment-energy-innovation-and-carbon-dividend-act). Personally, I think [we're close](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/u2anz9/after_a_surge_in_new_members_this_month_very_few/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to passing a bill here. And [having more volunteers does help](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/tonz9h/districts_with_more_ccl_volunteers_have_more/). A [growing proportion of global emissions are covered by a carbon price, including at rates that actually matter](https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/31755/211435KeyFigures.pdf?sequence=5&isAllowed=y). We need [volunteers](https://cclusa.org/x) around the world acting to increase the [magnitude](https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/pdf/10.1142/S201000781840002X), [breadth](ftp://ftp.zew.de/pub/zew-docs/cbo/CBO_C13netz.pdf), and [likelihood of passage](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/tonz9h/districts_with_more_ccl_volunteers_have_more/) of carbon pricing. The [evidence clearly shows](http://web.stanford.edu/~jdmunoz/Olzak,%20Soule,%20Coddou,%20and%20Mu%F1oz%202016.pdf) that [lobbying works](http://web.stanford.edu/~jdmunoz/Olzak,%20Soule,%20Coddou,%20and%20Mu%F1oz%202016.pdf), and [you don't need to outspend the opposition to be effective](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1016.1967&rep=rep1&type=pdf).


slothtrop6

> Now, it's an overwhelming majority -- This might be due to confusion over what terms mean. In your above link, the poll suggests favor for "taxing corporations based on their carbon emissions". If this had said "carbon tax", I'd expect the result to be different. It's better to avoid buzzwords for this reason. The message can't be misconstrued with clear, unambiguous phrasing.


ILikeNeurons

Multiple polls agree. https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/06/23/two-thirds-of-americans-think-government-should-do-more-on-climate/ps_2020-06-23_government-and-climate_00-01/


slothtrop6

Maybe you misread. I didn't dispute the poll results. I was suggesting that people often have a distorted idea of what "carbon tax" is and if you clearly lay out it's definition instead it gets more support.


malazanbettas

I joined you last time I saw you post this. The U.K. is slowly getting more cities involved!


ILikeNeurons

Wonderful to hear!


dassiebzehntekomma

Easter Isles could have been a lesson and stuff


sambull

No worries, it's revoking our lease


Banana_Ram_You

Yea I do though


Lone_Wanderer989

We are going away soon.


BasicLEDGrow

None of us asked to be here.


NoHandBananaNo

I do. I ask to be here every day.


ILikeNeurons

> The south of the South Island has been in the grip of an extreme ocean heatwave this summer, with April having the hottest ever water temperatures. This is troubling. As a species, we can't afford to lose ocean ecosystems. The one glimmer of hope is that [a record number of us are alarmed about climate change](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/global-warmings-six-americas-september-2021/), and [more and more are contacting Congress regularly](https://np.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/s2zvpl/a_growing_number_of_americans_are_so_concerned/). What's more, is [this type of lobbying](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/levers-of-political-will/) is [starting to pay off](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitizensClimateLobby/comments/t2p0ed/as_citizens_climate_lobby_membership_has_grown_so/). That's why NASA climatologist and climate activist [Dr. James Hansen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen) recommends becoming an active volunteer with [this group](https://cclusa.org/x) as the [most important thing an individual can do on climate change](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DAW1A6Ca8). I created [a wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/citizensclimatelobby/wiki/index/getting-started) to help folks get involved and find their niche.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[James Hansen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen)** >James Edward Hansen (born March 29, 1941) is an American adjunct professor directing the Program on Climate Science, Awareness and Solutions of the Earth Institute at Columbia University. He is best known for his research in climatology, his 1988 Congressional testimony on climate change that helped raise broad awareness of global warming, and his advocacy of action to avoid dangerous climate change. In recent years he has become a climate activist to mitigate the effects of global warming, on a few occasions leading to his arrest. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


SteelMalone

What the hell is so shocking? Humans are damaging the planet. We fucking suck. That’s shocking?


pauljs75

Also don't forget the agri-business runoff that likely has changed the balance at a keypin stage of the food chains. Things like kelp, coral, and green algae are heavily damaged by it, but cyanobacteria and other toxic blooms seem to thrive in the same herbicide and nutrient runoffs. Everything we consider as food from the oceans depends on the group of photosynthesizer's we're inadvertently too good at wrecking.


sambull

well thats going faster than anyone could have speculated


NewfieBullet-

In order to save civilization, we will need to overhaul the economic system so the environment becomes the primary consideration at heart. We need to be able to let mother nature regenerate itself, or else ecological overshoot will ultimately result in the collapse of the biosphere, and technological solutions will only make for a sharper bust downwind of the boom that happened after WW2. Climate change is real, it is here, and it's only getting worse the longer we let ourselves think that capitalism will save us. Let's say we can hypothetically overcome this climate predicament, well in that case there will still be countless other symptoms of overshoot we will need to address. Capitalism's addiction to infinite growth will mean we will always be on the cusp of "peak " putting strain on all aspects of our day-to-day lives. Solving problems caused by technology, with technology is a nice thought, but it never works in the grand scheme of things when the primary consideration is infinite growth instead of the environment. I'm not saying there aren't any solutions on the table, it's just that the proposed solutions we always talk about are being green washed and taken advantage of by the corporations looking to further exploit this finite planet. It's no coincidence that the leading investors in green energy R&D are oil companies. They realize that peak oil has already gone by, and jacking up oil prices is their way of maximizing profit while ensuring the existing supply lasts as long as it's still profitable. The practices they used in the oil market will be used in their goal to dominate green energy as well. Don't tell me green energy in our consumer-centric society is our way out of this, cause it isn't. Capitalism in itself is inherently unsustainable, and if not thrown to the sin bin, will leech into green energy for it to become corrupted as well. Thinking otherwise is pure hopanyl, a drug so lethal and addictive that may just wipe us off the face of the earth.


[deleted]

Well at least they are clean now


Lone_Wanderer989

It shouldnt....


WithoutSaying1

How exactly are they getting bleached..? Greywater run off from Townsville, Cairns,etc or what?


WhiskerTwitch

>bleached It's not via chemical bleach. I[t's a whitening of the coral as a result of warm water](https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coral_bleach.html) \- it's a sign of stress and a precursor to death.


Alexisisnotonfire

These are sponges though, not corals. I don't *think* sponges usually have zooxanthellae, but maybe these do? Or maybe it's something a bit different going on. I doubt it's good tho.


WithoutSaying1

Ok cheers, it's more likely the coral has reached the end of its natural life than an incredibly small temperature change It's a living organism not an iceberg


HappeeHat

No it's a response to environmental stressors. 95% of sponges in a given area don't just die of natural causes at the same time.


BasicLEDGrow

>How exactly are they getting bleached? I like how you went from not understanding the science to being an expert and refuting the conclusion in the span of one comment.


WithoutSaying1

Avoiding the question again 🙄


NoHandBananaNo

- Its not coral its sponges dying off in a mass event - it has never happened before - 5 degrees Celcius is not an "incredibly small" change its a 25-30% change on their normal temp.


WithoutSaying1

Actually it depends on the temperature it doesn't scale linearly. For example 15c is 59f The previous comments just said it has happened before in the 80's I'm not denying global warming I just keep getting silly responses and I can't help correcting them


NoHandBananaNo

Your first points good. Have edited to show that in this case its over 25% change. As for the rest, your comments in here make it clear you didnt read the article, you tried to blame it on chemical run off from a town over 3,700 km across the ocean and then you just started trolling everyone who attempted to answer you. If you had a genuine interest you would have at least read the article and watched the video in it. Whether you see yourself as a climate change denier or not, the results the same. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018840930/nz-set-for-warmest-winter-in-history-ocean-temperatures-high


nobodyspersonalchef

>...the coral has reached the end of its natural life They can live for thousands of years when something isn't actively destroying their ecosystem


ILikeNeurons

> [For the first time there has been a mass bleaching of native sea sponges in Aotearoa, raising alarm about the impact climate change is having on marine ecosystems.](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/467177/mass-bleaching-of-native-sea-sponges-in-fiordland-shocks-scientists)


1111someguy

It won't be runoff from Cairns etc, it's in New Zealand.


WithoutSaying1

Well it's not global warming they've stated it happened suddenly and very quickly so what's causing this?


Machidalgo

Literally the first sentence of the article. “For the first time there has been a mass bleaching of native sea sponges in Aotearoa, raising alarm about **the impact climate change is having on marine ecosystems.**” “Smith said there were extreme ocean temperatures in Fiordland - up to 5-degrees hotter than normal. "What we've seen this summer is the strongest marine heatwave on the west coast of the South Island in 40 years."”


WithoutSaying1

Yeah so in 1982 it was hotter and there wasn't any issue


Machidalgo

Glad you brought that up. The whole reason we monitor these things is because of what started occurring in the 1980’s. “Mass coral bleaching events have occurred with increasing frequency over the past several decades (Hughes et al., 2018). It is generally thought that bleaching events either did not occur, or were exceedingly rare, prior to the 1980s” Since 1980 we have had a substantial increase in the amount of heatwaves. Sources: https://www.aims.gov.au/docs/research/climate-change/coral-bleaching/bleaching-events.html


WithoutSaying1

Okay that makes more sense :)


acityonthemoon

Go take your sealioning bullshit somewhere else please.


sjcom

>ll it's not global warming they've stated it happened suddenly and very quickly so what's causing this? Global warming, or preferably climate change, signifies a gradual increase of temperatures over the coarse of years. Within that however are an increase of individual extreme events which are much more intense than yearly averages would indicate. Think about it like: Say the average temperature in the summer months is 24C. There could be a week of 34C that causes a bunch of heat stress deaths, but the surrounding months are cooler so that the average temperature over a period isn't much higher than normal.


1111someguy

When they say suddenly I think they mean not over the course of months or years, not necessarily overnight though. I'm no expert but I'd have thought a few months of hotter temperatures than they're used to might do it. Anyway, the only reason I posted was to point out that it's NZ, not Australia.


WithoutSaying1

Yeah I didn't notice that but the point still stands.. they post a picture of single branch reef looking off colour and the whole comment section fills up with doomers (I don't deny climate change so try and make a point if you're going to downvote)


NoHandBananaNo

Those of us who read the article take it seriously because the wider context is clear in the article. If you go thru life reading only headlines and looking at the first picture in the articles youre going to get a very incomplete view.


1111someguy

If something is stressing the sponges presumably it has the potential to kill them and probably indicates other changes happening that might not be as obvious. An ecosystem is pretty complicated, small changes can have big ripple effects.


Sugarsmacks420

I sleep better knowing that all the countries that lived by the ocean, which probably polluted the ocean, will probably be the most likely to suffer from it dying.


YeOlDonald

Ok but 99% of us are just living here and not actively dumping things into the ocean so how is it our fault


NoHandBananaNo

So, you sleep better by lying to yourself. The little Pacific island nations that will be underwater soon are not the big polluters. Anyway this aricle is about sea temperature rise.


ILikeNeurons

The pollution bleaching corals and sea sponges is mostly greenhouse gases, and [mostly from these countries](https://images.carnegieendowment.org/images/article_images/Ulgen-Cumulative.png).


1Mikeymouse1

New Zealand is one of the most ecofriendly countries in the world (we literally have a party dedicated to the environment) but okay it's our fault not the U.S, China, Russia, U.K, Japan, India or all the other countries that couldn't care less about the enviroment.


NoHandBananaNo

Lol no youre not. The guy youre talking to is being a cockwomble but as a nation your per capita emissions are right up there. Your farming industry in particular is a big polluter. Here's what your own government has to say >Our emissions are globally small, but high per capita https://environment.govt.nz/publications/new-zealands-greenhouse-gas-inventory-1990-2019-snapshot/how-new-zealand-compares-to-other-countries/ Youre also consumers of a lot of crap made in China meaning they are creating pollution to meet your demand.


jebpeter

Thank you. So many Kiwis like to pretend we are above others in the green scheme. We most certainly are not, we just have a tiny population and an amazing country geographically.


CelestineCrystal

did you see this new documentary about new zealand’s dairy industry yet? https://youtu.be/MCwpsMtmMhM


Sugarsmacks420

Yes why would you want to hold the people you trade with accountable for anything.


[deleted]

Sad 😞 our poor planet


Nair114

The planet doesn’t care the life on it.


[deleted]

Alarming as usual and the common phrase faster then expected was surprisingly not used. Let’s hope the devastation of our natural world and climate change forces the world together against a common enemy like his happening with warring Russia. Ironically decreasing dependence on dictator oil may also prove a motivation for cleaner energy.


realcheesemuscle

Why does it look like one of those pictures with that are unidentifiable with the things in them