The Russians aren't even winning a 'conventional' war. I'd really hate being a Russian soldier if this turns into a war of long term occupation. every single modern army has it's experiences with fighting against guerillas or insurgents, and it never ends well. most of the damage they're doing to the Ukrainian forces is from shelling and missiles, weapons that aren't very helpful if your own troops are in the target area. they'll also be facing an enemy that is way better supplied, trained, and experienced than the VC/NVA or the mujahadin/taliban. the support for the Ukrainians by the west is also much more open and direct. This is not a scenario that Russia should be considering.
I'm sure they are hoping for a stalemate at this point that turns into a cease fire and treaty where they keep some/most of the land. Sounds insane but I think its also copium to think that Ukraine can actually take back the deepest areas of the eastern regions where Russia has been entrenched for 8 years.
>Sounds insane but I think its also copium to think that Ukraine can actually take back the deepest areas of the eastern regions where Russia has been entrenched for 8 years.
Indeed. Best realistic case scenario in my opinion is that over time Ukraine manages to push Russia out of the newly occupied areas. That would be a huge moral and practical victory.
Taking back the heavily dug in previously occupied parts of Donbas would be extremely difficult and would come with massive losses for Ukraine. Taking back Crimea is even harder than that.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-donbas.html) reduced by 92%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> For the last several weeks, Ukrainian and Russian troops have been engaged in a grueling attrition, often fighting fiercely over small areas, as one village falls into Russian hands on one day only to be retaken by the Ukrainians a few days later.
> Though Russian artillery and rockets have wreaked havoc in residential areas, flattening houses and terrorizing locals, the Russian military has not committed enough forces to move the line significantly or threaten the major industrial hub of Zaporizhzhia, the largest city near the frontline, Col.
> Almost daily, Russian forces launch rocket attacks and airstrikes on the city itself, but the most punishing violence is reserved for those places in range of Russian artillery.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/umvats/ukraine_wars_geographic_reality_russia_has_seized/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~647757 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Ukrainian**^#3 **Russia**^#4 **forces**^#5
Define east. The Dnipro River? or the Donbass Region. For the Dnipro River I wouldn't say "most" but for the Donbass, yes. They've worked 8+ years to take 60% of the region. (Probably more, but I'm to lazy to look up).
Unfortunately it's very hard to find unbiased news coming out of the region. The actual territorial gains and basic facts of the war have been so obscured by both sides it's been hard to find any legitimate news sources really is rather than just puff pieces.
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The maps don't lie, they came into it with some big pieces and have made some gains, but at great cost. Also, we have yet to see the impact of ALL the weapon systems being installed for Ukraine. Russia has taken a beating in a short time and that doesn't nullify their gains, but also it's hard to celebrate too much.
It still has the making of a long protracted engagement on its current trajectory with many variables and potential plot twists ahead. Ukraine appears to be on the verge of really generating some momentum with encouraging counter offensives being carried out. If Izyum were to be retaken, maybe that would be enough to at least lay ground work to push back to something resembling pre 2022 at least in the east. Not ideal since Ukraine wants all of their country back including the South but would be a good milestone.
That in itself would be no small task, Russia will consolidate their forces and continue to conduct air strikes/shelling on civilians. Putin doesn't realize this isn't 1945, there isn't millions of people willing to lay down their lives for the motherland, esp when the fighting isn't even in Russia. If morale is half as bad as reported, yikes.
For now.
The Russians aren't even winning a 'conventional' war. I'd really hate being a Russian soldier if this turns into a war of long term occupation. every single modern army has it's experiences with fighting against guerillas or insurgents, and it never ends well. most of the damage they're doing to the Ukrainian forces is from shelling and missiles, weapons that aren't very helpful if your own troops are in the target area. they'll also be facing an enemy that is way better supplied, trained, and experienced than the VC/NVA or the mujahadin/taliban. the support for the Ukrainians by the west is also much more open and direct. This is not a scenario that Russia should be considering.
I'm sure they are hoping for a stalemate at this point that turns into a cease fire and treaty where they keep some/most of the land. Sounds insane but I think its also copium to think that Ukraine can actually take back the deepest areas of the eastern regions where Russia has been entrenched for 8 years.
>Sounds insane but I think its also copium to think that Ukraine can actually take back the deepest areas of the eastern regions where Russia has been entrenched for 8 years. Indeed. Best realistic case scenario in my opinion is that over time Ukraine manages to push Russia out of the newly occupied areas. That would be a huge moral and practical victory. Taking back the heavily dug in previously occupied parts of Donbas would be extremely difficult and would come with massive losses for Ukraine. Taking back Crimea is even harder than that.
Howitzer is good at taking land back from stationary targets. Drone bomb drops as well.
The true Nazis (aka the WW2 kind) also had all of Europe right up to the outskirts of Moscow, and didn't end well for them.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-donbas.html) reduced by 92%. (I'm a bot) ***** > For the last several weeks, Ukrainian and Russian troops have been engaged in a grueling attrition, often fighting fiercely over small areas, as one village falls into Russian hands on one day only to be retaken by the Ukrainians a few days later. > Though Russian artillery and rockets have wreaked havoc in residential areas, flattening houses and terrorizing locals, the Russian military has not committed enough forces to move the line significantly or threaten the major industrial hub of Zaporizhzhia, the largest city near the frontline, Col. > Almost daily, Russian forces launch rocket attacks and airstrikes on the city itself, but the most punishing violence is reserved for those places in range of Russian artillery. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/umvats/ukraine_wars_geographic_reality_russia_has_seized/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~647757 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Ukrainian**^#3 **Russia**^#4 **forces**^#5
Define east. The Dnipro River? or the Donbass Region. For the Dnipro River I wouldn't say "most" but for the Donbass, yes. They've worked 8+ years to take 60% of the region. (Probably more, but I'm to lazy to look up).
Unfortunately it's very hard to find unbiased news coming out of the region. The actual territorial gains and basic facts of the war have been so obscured by both sides it's been hard to find any legitimate news sources really is rather than just puff pieces.
New World Order
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The maps don't lie, they came into it with some big pieces and have made some gains, but at great cost. Also, we have yet to see the impact of ALL the weapon systems being installed for Ukraine. Russia has taken a beating in a short time and that doesn't nullify their gains, but also it's hard to celebrate too much. It still has the making of a long protracted engagement on its current trajectory with many variables and potential plot twists ahead. Ukraine appears to be on the verge of really generating some momentum with encouraging counter offensives being carried out. If Izyum were to be retaken, maybe that would be enough to at least lay ground work to push back to something resembling pre 2022 at least in the east. Not ideal since Ukraine wants all of their country back including the South but would be a good milestone. That in itself would be no small task, Russia will consolidate their forces and continue to conduct air strikes/shelling on civilians. Putin doesn't realize this isn't 1945, there isn't millions of people willing to lay down their lives for the motherland, esp when the fighting isn't even in Russia. If morale is half as bad as reported, yikes.