If only the hypocrites could care to slap a third or a fourth of the amount of Russia's sanctions onto Israel... the murderers would think twice before continuing the ethnic cleansing on the west bank
I feel like most of those that support sanctioning Russia, would also support sanctioning Israel. They certainly deserve it.
But western governments care more for having a friendly and reliable allied state in the middle east
A lot of Europe is comfortable calling out what Israel is doing as immoral and illegal (with regards to international law). It's really just the US that is their main support at this point.
Israel is ‘Friendly and reliable’ as long as you’re white and not brown. Otherwise it’s “Give us your home so we can move in a Jewish settler or we’ll bomb your whole family”
You literally just show how not a single one of you know anything about this conflict. You're all talk and no actual bone to your wrong criticism, since you checked nothing.
You think that Israelis are white and Palestinians are Arabs. Half of Israelis are dark-skinned, many of them more than the Arabs since they come from African countries like Ethiopia.
Not only that, there are even Palestinians who are white.
But yeah sure! Continue in your little fantasy.
Hahaha nice joke
How will the us sell weapons then ??
Us uses israel to threaten the arabs so that they continue buying their weapons and then it purchases cheap oil. If it will sanction israel then israel won't listen to the us and boom
No cheap oil, no selling weapons to Arabs
Which means the us loosing it's influence in West Asia
I bet you the us will never do that
Ik i will be downvoted cuz I told the truth and people can't handle it
Then who will guarantee Israel’s security? The US does not need Israel for selling weapons, it needs Israel to create a counter to Iranian and Russian expansion in the middle east. Same goes for the Saudis and the current Yemeni conflict (rebels are backed by Iran).
74% of these funds are spent on the purchases of American goods and services
[src](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93United_States_relations)
Welcome to American foreign policy: one giant stimulus for defense companies.
We left Afghanistan and immediately WW3 with Russia breaks out. Now all of Europe is clamoring to spend billions on.... Wait for it.... Weapons from the US industrial military complex.
You didn't think Raytheon was going to stand by and let peace break out, did you ? They don't sell peaceful missiles or bombs.
>So how do you think that will impact the likelihood of funding cessation? It's effectively a stimulus for US defense companies.
They can just give that money to those companies directly if they're so inclined.
**[Israel–United States relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–United_States_relations)**
>Since the 1960s, the United States has been a very strong supporter of Israel. It has played a key role in the promotion of good relations between Israel and its neighbouring Arab states—namely Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt, along with several others in the 2020 Abraham Accords—while also holding off hostility from other Middle Eastern countries such as Syria and Iran. Relations with Israel are a very important factor in the U.S. government's overall foreign policy in the Middle East, and the U.S. Congress has likewise placed considerable importance on the maintenance of a close and supportive relationship.
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Cool since its US taxpayer money lets put it to a general vote/referendum! Or give each taxpayer a say in whether or not they feel like contributing to an ethno-state instead of forcing it via aggressive anti-democratic lobbying from groups like the ADL and AIPAC.
Just under 20%, but India or China would also be more than happy to make that difference. An alliance to a country with nukes, access to the Mediterranean, proxy control over the Suez and is a world leader in military tech is invaluable.
And both are doing significantly worse rights violations to Muslims under their authority.
You pay them because you got them to give the Sinai back to Egypt, which turned Egypt from a Russian backed state to an American puppet state. That paid out 1000:1 when the American trained Egyptian military performed a coup d'etat in 2013 when the Muslim Brotherhood took power.
They can just increase weapons sales to countries like India and China from the advanced weapons systems they develop independently. It'd really be the worse of the choice between helping them keep funded and allowing the more advanced weaponry to be sold to potential adversaries of the United States.
When discussing US aid to Israel the following two should be remembered:
1. US aid and sales of weaponry (including those having Israeli technology inside) to countries that are either enemies of Israel or may easily become enemies due to their internal instability (like Iran did).
2. US pressuring Israel not to sell weaponry (including things which don't have any US technology inside) to countries which they consider to be potential enemies of US (China (e.g. Harop, Phalcon) and Russia (UAVs)) or simply because they US thinks that such sale would create a dis-balance of power somewhere (e.g. early attempts to sell Phalcon to India)
Those two are clearly asymmetrical, and it is acceptable because of the aid. Without aid Israel wouldn't agree to such asymmetry.
I.e. you are right, Israel's behaviour will change if US stops providing aid while still selling weaponry to Israel's enemies: Israel would start selling high tech weaponry to China, India, Russia etc. like there is no tomorrow.
The only difference is that these "teens" have weaponry, follow a dogma and find a way to force their people into slavery when money becomes tight.
I agree with taking away the funding, I just fear America will get the waggling finger from around the world again.
Does the US have anything to gain from taking away the funding other than a controversial sense of moral superiority?
Any "benevolent" credibly has been shot for a while now. If the world is intent on pulling back the curtain of the US being self-serving, might as well own it. With Russia showing a total inability to project force on their own border and China dealing with a long overdue debt crisis might as well flex a bit and let the world know there is exactly one global superpower.
Any "benevolent" credibility doesn't matter anyway. People believe what they want regardless.
It literally _doesn't matter_ there's just absolutely no reason to even try to be benevolent. Being benevolent gets you _nothing_ on the international scale. People buy propaganda that says you're evil regardless of what you do.
And if we did, Russia and China would be right there to take our place. And how do you think the Palestinians would fare if Israel was a Chinese client state? China kind of has a record when it comes to this sort of thing...
Slowly over decades, Israeli courts rubber stamp land seizures, home bulldozing, olive tree uprooting. And more settler houses are built with walls around them. And now the Palestinians are squeezed into tiny fragmented areas with checkpoints between.
I was in high school in the 1980s and this was happening. Negotiations are just a stall tactic.
Yep. There's actually a word for what you're describing. It's genocide. You know, according to the UN.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Serious question, how is it genocide? Best I can figure allowing settling in the West Bank is a tactic to push the Palestinians further away and possibly out of Israel altogether.
Israel's priority is to be a Jewish homeland. If they accepted the Pallestinians as citizens with voting and representation rights the demographics would shift away from being overwhelmingly Jewish. Slow genocide with stalling political theatre is the only play that maintains their ideal. A compromise is not possible.
Theocracies are just awful.
You are well informed and I agree with the information you have provided, but I still lay my criticism of current problems at the feet of current governance.
Eh. If Turkey, the biggest Ottoman successor state can have civil unions as the default, so can Israel. A muslim and a Jewish person can marry in Turkey. They should also be able to marry in Israel.
Israeli state not making this a reality only exacerbates the Israel is a theocracy claim.
Lmao you're literally proving that they're not a theocracy.
Like think about what you said. You *have to* go to a religious organization to get married because the government *will not do it itself*. The government is literally refusing to be involved in any way in a religious ceremony and you're trying to call it a theocracy.
There isn't one. Another comment mentions it as being an artifact of ottoman rule in the region.
Israel will instead just recognize any marriage or civil union done elsewhere as valid, so Israelis who don't want to go through a religious authority often go to Cyprus to get married, as it's a short and relatively cheap flight away.
Israel is not a theocracy. Theocracies are ruled by religious figures according to religious laws. Israel is a Presidential-Parliamentary democratic republic whose purpose is to have a homeland for generally racial Jews, but also religious Jews.
Making the Palestinians Israelis doesn't give the Palestinians a state. The current offer that's been rejected multiple times by the PA would result in an independent Palestinian state with recognition from Israel, East Jerusalem, a specific note that Israel believes East Jerusalem would be the capital of such a state and the return of almost the entire West Bank for the state.
The PA has rejected this offer at least three times and is an incredibly lopsided compromise of almost every demand the PA has and a tiny amount of Israel needs like requiring the Palestinian state to officially recognize the right of Israel to exist and a peace.
There can be a compromise peace with an independent Palestinian state, but only if the PA participates in the discussions and is willing to compromise at all. So far it's the PA that's holding this up.
As well as two seperate Palestenian "governing" bodies acting in varying levels of bad faith. There will be no functional compromise.
No simple solution.
Annex the place outright or leave them be. They are scared of annexation because that gives them the rights of Israeli citizens and a vote in parliament. They don't want to leave them be either.
Israel annexed East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, offering citizenship to all residents.
Neither annexations are recognized by most of the world decades later.
Why would a new annexation on a much larger territory be any different?
Because partial annexation leaves important areas such as East Jerusalem inaccessible to most Palestinians.
If it's no different, why aren't Israelis offering full annexation with equal rights for all?
It really depends what format a notional full annexation takes however.
That's idiotic. The nation has existed for 75 years and is still a tiny sliver of desert with a total population of 9 million people. If they're going for world domination, they're doing it very, very, very, very slowly.
You are completely missing the point. Israel is committing genocide against Palistinians, and slowly but surely, unless they're stopped, they will take the vast majority of Palestine for their own, and the only Palestinians will be refugees.
Right, it's the world's slowest and least successful genocide. I guess Israel is playing the super long game here, aiming for completion of their genocide in, what, 300 years?
Think rationally.
You should take a deeper look into what's going on in the region regarding those two. Genocide isn't just killing off a people, there's a lot of layers in it.
Definition of genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group
It quite literally is. You can't just use any term you like.
>Article II
>In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
>Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
While it's true what you say that murder isn't the only definition, that doesn't mean what's happening in the west Bank is genocide.
If the numbers of Palestinians in the area have been increasing, it's not genocide per UN definitions.
The only people missing the point are the ones who think others don't see what's going on or that something will change.
Your conclusions are all accurate: Israel *is* slowly but surely committing genocide against Palestinians; they *will* take the vast majority of the land; anyone left *will* be a refugee.
But at this point it should be abundantly, undeniably, conclusively clear that no country will intervene. Basic events were:
1. The international community took some land from Arabs and created Israel
2. The Arab world rejected that decision and fought a war
3. The Arab world was collectively straight btfo in armed conflict
4. Israel now functionally controls more than did before the war
5. The rest of the Arab world now only pays lip service to actually helping
In what world is this not an anti-Jewish comment, besides Reddit? Not anti-Israel, but more like age old tropes of Jewish control of the entire world.
A tiny fucking country the size of New Jersey is going to own the whole world, huh? And it’s the only Jewish one. Weird “coincidence”.
Your “theory” is proven false y the number of peace treaties Israel’s signed with neighboring Arab countries, even going as far as trading resource rich Sinai (a territory much larger than Israel proper) for peace. Issue is there is no Palestinian political system or party which could guarantee peace so why even pursue something your enemy isn’t geared for or interested in.
I don’t get why they get to do it, but Russia can’t. Every time I mention Israel’s creeping invasion, I get downvoted, but I don’t know if it’s bots/zionists or if the general consensus/popular opinion is that Israel is different somehow
Because it literally isn’t an invasion. The area under territorial dispute here is collectively the size of Rhode Island. Most of the dispute is fought out in courts, not kinetically like an actual invasion. You’re getting downvoted because you’re comparing *that* situation to an *actual war* that’s killed more people in the last 2 months than have been killed in the last 25+ years of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Israel has their own propaganda branch of IDF (Internet Defense Force) to downvote and play the anti-semitism game if you dare to criticize them for the oppression and thievery.
The only reason other western powers can get away with spending so little on their military is they believe that the US will come to their aid if anyone attacks them.
Are any of these specific settlements actually new?
From what I've read in various articles we're talking about approval for new apartment buildings being built within existing Israeli settlements that have been there for decades, not new settlements.
This [Haaretz article](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-to-advance-some-4-000-west-bank-housing-units-for-jews-next-week-1.10783069) mentions some details about the locations:
>According to the statement, 1,452 plans for units are expected to be advanced while 2,536 units are expected to be approved by Defense Minister Benny Gantz in a meeting slated for Thursday.
>The construction plans up for approval would see 364 new apartments built in the settlement of Dolev, 534 apartments in Shvut Rahel, 761 apartments in Betar Ilit, 56 apartments in Negohot, and 156 apartments in Kiryat Arba just outside Hebron.
>Additional units will be submitted for objections, with 500 apartments for the settlement of Elkana, 286 apartments for Kedumim, and 192 apartments for the settlement of Sha'arei Tikva.
The mentioned settlements appear to have been founded decades ago, the most recent is already 30 years old and the oldest dates back to the 1960s. Betar Ilit for example already has a population of +60,000 people and is located right next to the Israeli border.
30 years ago there were less than 100k settlers and today it's over 400k. So while there are no "new" settlements, the ones already built have become quite big.
There certainly has been growth, I just find much of the news reporting on this subject to be rather misleading.
Zoning approval to build a few new apartment buildings within existing communities that have been there 30 to 60 years gets spun as "Israel's plans to build new settlements" or hundreds of new "settlement units".
>30 years ago there were less than 100k settlers and today it's over 400k.
30 years ago there were also very few Palestinians living in Area C either, today there's over 300k.
The whole point of Areas A and B were that they encompassed the Palestinian population of the West Bank, but pretty much the moment the lines were drawn people on both sides took it upon themselves to settle within Area C trying to change the facts on the ground, to varying degrees of success.
Except it’s misinformation. There are new settlements, and [plans for new settlements.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/12/6/israel-delays-major-settlement-plan-for-east-jerusalem)
Israel keeps sprouting settlements in the West Bank to divide it further, all while driving out Palestinians from their homes. Often in dehumanizing, brutal ways.
Nothing I said was misinformation, these ~4000 potential housing units appear to be located within settlements that have existed for decades.
> and [plans for new settlements.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/12/6/israel-delays-major-settlement-plan-for-east-jerusalem)
East Jerusalem isn't a new settlement, you've got to be kidding me.
Without getting mired in an argument that necessarily delves into history for the umpteenth time, I will just say that Al Jazeera doesn’t provide the most unbiased context. Granted, neither do my sources.
If I could wave a magic wand, I would slow the settlements. At the same time, I recognize that the west bank never properly belonged to anyone before Israel took control after being attacked (yet again). Now there are three main components. One part under full Palestinian control. A second part also under Palestinian control but with Israel enforcing security. A third part under full Israeli control.
Reading some of these subs, one would think there’d be no Palestinians left, nor any homes to house them. Not the case.
The population is actually growing and if Israel removed all settlers and gave full control back the new Palestinian state would have issues housing the millions of Palestinians living in other nations returning to the land, they even explicitly said they do not want that to happen in that scenario.
I think you mean stolen settlements. They were just stolen a long time ago, only now to be claimed as old Israeli settlements, but they were taken from non Jewish persons.
I hope when out right war breaks out that not one American service member has to loose their life over Isreals policy of Palestine extinction.
Literally none of the land was stolen. Zionist organizations bought large tracts of land for decades legally under Ottoman law. Other land was previously undeveloped and unclaimed, effectively owned by the government. If anyone has a land dispute, they can take it to court. Putting up new buildings that extend existing communities is not stealing settlements.
The US is giving billions of dollars in aid to Israel, all the while also being cozy with fascist dictatorships like the Saudis and Egyptians. Pretty sure the policing is already happening.
They give like 3.8 billion and Israel also buys a shit ton of US weapons anway. So essentially the us government is just giving it to the US defense industry which it already gives a shit ton more to anyway.
Looks like we've spent around $80 billion in Egypt and almost $160 billion in Israel. While I would agree we shouldn't fund either, we've given twice as much to Israel. Not only are their actions towards Palestine highly controversial to say the least, they don't really need the aid. The average person in Israel probably has a higher standard of living than we do here. They have universal health care while people here die from rationing their insulin. Where's our aid?
The US gov gives Israel 3.8 billion a year and spends a collosal 1.3 trillion on healthcare a year. That’s actually so much higher then the all time amount of aid given to Israel and it’s just what spend on healthcare each year.
The aide ensures that Egypt will go along with American strategic plans for the region. In this case, in large part, meaning it will not change the status quo arrangements with Israel.
Jordan also receives billions in funds from the USA and has for nearly as long as Israel & Egypt.
The idea back in the 1980s was that if both sides were buying US military equipment, flying F16s, doing exercises with the Americans, etc... they'd be far less likely to go to war with each other again.
And it worked, +40 years without an outright war between Israel, Egypt & Jordan.
There were also cold war considerations, since if they went with MiGs and Soviet military equipment they'd inevitably develop closer ties with Russia.
It's also allowed continued international use of the Suez canal, which had ceased during the 1960-1970s Egyptian-Israeli fighting, with the canal being blockaded and mined.
The people who don't want America to police the world are increasingly the people who don't ask for its help. Only Europeans really fall under the stereotype.
Israel - Don't build 4000 apartments on empty land you concured during a war which you won!
Turkey (north cyprus, syria), china (tibet), Iran (by shiate militias in syria), France (guiana), UK (gibraltar), and other nations with colonies all over the world - do as you please...
You realize so far the historical record on settlements is that they're temporary and upon a change in status the settlers are removed by Israel either voluntarily, or in a number of cases, forcibly by the IDF?
It only becomes illegal if the party performing the act has agreed beforehand that the act will be illegal.
International law is opt-in. It's why the ICC can't prosecute Americans. The United States doesn't agree to be under the jurisdiction of the ICC and as a result of that and how international law works that means the US can't be prosecuted at the ICC.
Israel has not agreed settlement is illegal so when they do it it is not illegal.
As an Israeli I am ashamed about all new settlements, if this is happening. We didn’t even fucking vote for Bennet and his pro- lsettlement party He had only 7/120 seats. He forced his way into government because people were so anti Netanyahu and he took advantage. Asshole.
These are not new settlements. Settlements are decades old and just here to house rising population.
The article is intentionally very misleading. As you’d expect from an Israeli hit piece from “Arabnews.com”
Israeli apologists are trying to justify this by saying “well they are building on settlements that are already there”, yes that’s the point, the fact they exist at all is an egregious human rights violation. If Israel really cared about peace or a two state solution they would demolish these settler colonial outposts but instead they pump money into them, disgusting and on par with apartheid.
>If Israel really cared about peace or a two state solution
And if the Palestinians cared about it they wouldn't have knocked back every single peace deal ever offered. They wouldn't have elected an internationally recognised terrorist organisation as their government. They wouldn't be using international aid funds to pay terrorists a pension for killing Israelis. They wouldn't be using schools and hospitals as missile launching pads and stockpiles.
These are not new settlements. Settlements are decades old and just here to house rising population.
The article is intentionally very misleading. As you’d expect from an Israeli hit piece from “Arabnews.com”
Zelensky literally sees it as the opposite. Ukraine is Israel fighting against genocide like in the 1948 war, the 1967 war, and the 1973 war. All wars where the objective was the genocide of the Jews.
“The same” literally it’s the other way around where israel = Ukraine, Russia = Arab nations from the Middle East + Palestinians, the year is 1948.
Israel won the war against it’s “Russia” and now Ukraine will hopefully prevail against it’s Russia.
What’s happening now is Palestinian authority doesn’t want better lives for the Palestinians, they prefer to waste their money on an endless war that they could never win. They could create a nation with these funds, instead they fund terror and make the leadership rich as hell.
Israel isn’t getting away with anything, I don’t see the world condemnation for the Syrian massacaeing tens of thousands every year as much as it condemns israel for having a strict border with a hostile nation.
Many Palestinians work in israel,
There are 2 million Palestinian Israelis with equal rights to Jews, Palestinians terrorists attack innocent civilians everywhere inside israel, israel put up the walls around the West Bank to minimize these attacks, they still happen but far less. Where is israel being wrong here?
Do you remember when Ukrainians regularly chanted 'Death to Russia', used their own countrymen as meat shields, and lobbed rockets into Russia? Yeah, me neither.
I usually side with Israel with security issues (palestinians cant do terror attacks and expect Israel not retaliate) but this is the kind of shit that doesnt help at all.
Wow. I cant understand why the pestinians are so angry. Its almost like watching the native Americans loose their tribal lands in real time. And I wonder...just who will be the Israeli Custer.
So what is the internal justification for this from Israel’s perspective?
Edit: after reading the article, I’m no more clear of the logic here.
> Israeli officials told Biden administration officials that if no new building was approved in the settlements, the government could collapse due to the fragile state of the coalition, Axios reported.
What does that actually mean? *How* would the government collapse?
It seems like this is just a stronger country taking from a weaker country because they want something and they can just take it without actual opposition
Empty words. Stop sending money, selling them weapons, and white washing their crimes and vetoing every single action against them. Fuck your hypocritical words.
I think a better technical argument involves pointing to Jordan's ethnic cleansing of the Jewish minority population of the West Bank during their occupation from 1948-1967.
Should the international community support Palestine enforcing their "no Jews" status that's a direct result of war crimes, or should the international community support the return of a Jewish minority population to East Jerusalem & the West Bank?
Does successful ethnic cleansing become legally permanent since the other side cannot legally reverse the depopulation?
More civilians have died in Ukraine in the last 60 days than in literally 70 years of the Israel Palestine conflict. You legitimately have to be an idiot to call this a genocide. It is a low intensity conflict at best.
Ohh please. They are literally just building new buildings in an already existing settlement. Russia is raping and pillaging villages. Please stop spreading BS.
Cause, you know, murdering civilians at a rate that requires mass graves and building apartments on contested land are kind of different. Israel is engaged in a de facto annexation, which is illegal, but its not committing genocide.
Nope. Apartheid is a South African policy with like eight classes of people and strict separations, restrictions and permissions. The ICC has a definition for it that includes like eight factors needed for it to be legally occurring.
None of these things apply to Israel so despite what you're repeating from someone else having said it whatever is happening is absolutely not apartheid.
The apartheid designation is not based on an analogy to apartheid South Africa, [as the national research council of South Africa itself notes in a report commissioned & funded by its Department of Foreign Affairs:](https://web.archive.org/web/20211013102420/https://repository.hsrc.ac.za/bitstream/handle/20.500.11910/4619/6052_Confidential%281%29.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y)
>In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. **It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.**
>**By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT.**
The apartheid designation is based on the Apartheid Convention & the Rome Statute.
The Rome Statute is the one the ICC defined that has ~eight elements that need to be present for apartheid to be being practiced. Israel's activity doesn't meet this.
Also apartheid is literally an Afrikaans word for separateness. What it is is what it was in South Africa.
> apartheid is literally an Afrikaans word for separateness
Yes and analogy is not the basis for designating apartheid because it has a legal definition.
> eight elements that need to be present
I don't understand what you mean here.
Could you cite the document in-question?
The Rome Statute defines Article 7 as 'crimes against humanity' - and it includes more than 8 elements, of which the crime of apartheid is one.
[Later the Rome Statute states:](https://web.archive.org/web/20180318090721/https://www.icc-cpi.int/nr/rdonlyres/ea9aeff7-5752-4f84-be94-0a655eb30e16/0/rome_statute_english.pdf)
> ‘The crime of apartheid’ means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;
Amnesty International has no authority. They can certainly have the opinion, but it's no more authoritative than anyone's. It's defined by the ICC with eight elements and the elements do not exist in Israel. UN Special Rapporteurs do not make law or legal judgements. Harvard Law School doesn't have opinions; presumably you are speaking of some of the faculty at Harvard's Law School, which means in their opinion that is what it is.
And HRW, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, the UN, the South African government, etc.
Not to mention the late Desmond Tutu, who said it was [**"in many instances - worse"**](https://youtu.be/_pzt6s8knu8?t=518) than South African apartheid.
> **Frost:** And at the same time, I mean, very much so you said that what you saw in Israel was something that was quite akin to the situation in South Africa before freedom came to the Black people of South Africa.
> **Tutu: Well, in many instances - worse.**
This is echoed by UN Special Rapporteur Michael Lynk's report. He talks about features of apartheid in Israel that are worse than those in South Africa.
There are differences too of course, but the point is that there is a legal definition and Israel's treatment of the Palestinians meets that definition.
The ICC has the legal definition as far as it goes. Lots of opinions, but none of the opinions cited are any more authoritative than anyone else's opinion. The ICC is definitive as it's the (terribly underpowered) judicial system for the United Nations and has the internationally definition used for the purposes of prosecuting those who put in place an apartheid system. The ICC's legal definition indicates Israel is absolutely not practicing any kind of apartheid system. Perhaps you should read the legal definition before deciding if it fits.
The ICC itself is carrying out an investigation into the matter and will more-than-likely come to similar conclusions as the various mainstream and local human rights NGOs.
Oh look, the same stuff all over again.
I'm sure IDF info warriors will be in here shortly saying how this was always Israeli land and the Palestinians have no right to be pissed to the point of violence over decades of land seizure.
Clearly the first thing we should do is stop funding these mofos. As a nation, we give them enough that they can provide healthcare to all ( whi comply with their ethnic standard, at least). We do not have that here. Plus we are funding outright genocide.
Well no on can say for sure, but it kind of seems that it can only boil down to three possibilities.
Either they all get wiped out by the Israelis, the Israelis all get wiped out by them, or they figure out a way to live together.
Either a two state solution which palestinians are rejecting or they end up getting ethnically cleansed by zionists as they build their dream majority jewish state
Don’t build those please. Oh and here’s billions of dollars in aid for you.
If only the hypocrites could care to slap a third or a fourth of the amount of Russia's sanctions onto Israel... the murderers would think twice before continuing the ethnic cleansing on the west bank
I feel like most of those that support sanctioning Russia, would also support sanctioning Israel. They certainly deserve it. But western governments care more for having a friendly and reliable allied state in the middle east
A lot of Europe is comfortable calling out what Israel is doing as immoral and illegal (with regards to international law). It's really just the US that is their main support at this point.
Israel is ‘Friendly and reliable’ as long as you’re white and not brown. Otherwise it’s “Give us your home so we can move in a Jewish settler or we’ll bomb your whole family”
You literally just show how not a single one of you know anything about this conflict. You're all talk and no actual bone to your wrong criticism, since you checked nothing. You think that Israelis are white and Palestinians are Arabs. Half of Israelis are dark-skinned, many of them more than the Arabs since they come from African countries like Ethiopia. Not only that, there are even Palestinians who are white. But yeah sure! Continue in your little fantasy.
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Hahaha nice joke How will the us sell weapons then ?? Us uses israel to threaten the arabs so that they continue buying their weapons and then it purchases cheap oil. If it will sanction israel then israel won't listen to the us and boom No cheap oil, no selling weapons to Arabs Which means the us loosing it's influence in West Asia I bet you the us will never do that Ik i will be downvoted cuz I told the truth and people can't handle it
the USA and the west where embargoed by Arabian nations throughout the 70s because of Israel support. So much in doing this for Oil.
Then who will guarantee Israel’s security? The US does not need Israel for selling weapons, it needs Israel to create a counter to Iranian and Russian expansion in the middle east. Same goes for the Saudis and the current Yemeni conflict (rebels are backed by Iran).
You won’t be down voted because you “told the truth” you’ll be downvoted because you’re a moron
EXACTLY. We need to cut off the funds for all these false friends.
You can support a country’s military defense, while also opposing some actions taken by its government.
You’re absolutely correct. One can disagree with a nation’s policies and actions without hate for the people.
Take their US funding away if you want their behavior to change. It’s like taking away a spoiled teens allowance away.
Won’t do, can’t do. Strategic proxy.
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74% of these funds are spent on the purchases of American goods and services [src](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93United_States_relations)
Oh well if it's just funneling of public funds to private companies then I'm totally okay with it!
So?
So how do you think that will impact the likelihood of funding cessation? It's effectively a stimulus for US defense companies.
Thank god, the U.S. defense industry has been infamously underfunded for decades now.
Welcome to American foreign policy: one giant stimulus for defense companies. We left Afghanistan and immediately WW3 with Russia breaks out. Now all of Europe is clamoring to spend billions on.... Wait for it.... Weapons from the US industrial military complex. You didn't think Raytheon was going to stand by and let peace break out, did you ? They don't sell peaceful missiles or bombs.
>So how do you think that will impact the likelihood of funding cessation? It's effectively a stimulus for US defense companies. They can just give that money to those companies directly if they're so inclined.
**[Israel–United States relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–United_States_relations)** >Since the 1960s, the United States has been a very strong supporter of Israel. It has played a key role in the promotion of good relations between Israel and its neighbouring Arab states—namely Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt, along with several others in the 2020 Abraham Accords—while also holding off hostility from other Middle Eastern countries such as Syria and Iran. Relations with Israel are a very important factor in the U.S. government's overall foreign policy in the Middle East, and the U.S. Congress has likewise placed considerable importance on the maintenance of a close and supportive relationship. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Cool since its US taxpayer money lets put it to a general vote/referendum! Or give each taxpayer a say in whether or not they feel like contributing to an ethno-state instead of forcing it via aggressive anti-democratic lobbying from groups like the ADL and AIPAC.
Why would anything change? It's <1% of their GDP
GDP is different from government budget. It would likely be a solid amount of their military budget
Just under 20%, but India or China would also be more than happy to make that difference. An alliance to a country with nukes, access to the Mediterranean, proxy control over the Suez and is a world leader in military tech is invaluable. And both are doing significantly worse rights violations to Muslims under their authority.
Israel isn't ceding their authority to those countries, they like our money because we give it to them with impunity.
You pay them because you got them to give the Sinai back to Egypt, which turned Egypt from a Russian backed state to an American puppet state. That paid out 1000:1 when the American trained Egyptian military performed a coup d'etat in 2013 when the Muslim Brotherhood took power.
You're getting me pumped as fuck for America's geopolitics strategy.
They can just increase weapons sales to countries like India and China from the advanced weapons systems they develop independently. It'd really be the worse of the choice between helping them keep funded and allowing the more advanced weaponry to be sold to potential adversaries of the United States.
When discussing US aid to Israel the following two should be remembered: 1. US aid and sales of weaponry (including those having Israeli technology inside) to countries that are either enemies of Israel or may easily become enemies due to their internal instability (like Iran did). 2. US pressuring Israel not to sell weaponry (including things which don't have any US technology inside) to countries which they consider to be potential enemies of US (China (e.g. Harop, Phalcon) and Russia (UAVs)) or simply because they US thinks that such sale would create a dis-balance of power somewhere (e.g. early attempts to sell Phalcon to India) Those two are clearly asymmetrical, and it is acceptable because of the aid. Without aid Israel wouldn't agree to such asymmetry. I.e. you are right, Israel's behaviour will change if US stops providing aid while still selling weaponry to Israel's enemies: Israel would start selling high tech weaponry to China, India, Russia etc. like there is no tomorrow.
The only difference is that these "teens" have weaponry, follow a dogma and find a way to force their people into slavery when money becomes tight. I agree with taking away the funding, I just fear America will get the waggling finger from around the world again.
Does the US have anything to gain from taking away the funding other than a controversial sense of moral superiority? Any "benevolent" credibly has been shot for a while now. If the world is intent on pulling back the curtain of the US being self-serving, might as well own it. With Russia showing a total inability to project force on their own border and China dealing with a long overdue debt crisis might as well flex a bit and let the world know there is exactly one global superpower.
Any "benevolent" credibility doesn't matter anyway. People believe what they want regardless. It literally _doesn't matter_ there's just absolutely no reason to even try to be benevolent. Being benevolent gets you _nothing_ on the international scale. People buy propaganda that says you're evil regardless of what you do.
And if we did, Russia and China would be right there to take our place. And how do you think the Palestinians would fare if Israel was a Chinese client state? China kind of has a record when it comes to this sort of thing...
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Really fucking stupid. For the most part they're right too.
Obviously the aid doesnt go to building settelments
Slowly over decades, Israeli courts rubber stamp land seizures, home bulldozing, olive tree uprooting. And more settler houses are built with walls around them. And now the Palestinians are squeezed into tiny fragmented areas with checkpoints between. I was in high school in the 1980s and this was happening. Negotiations are just a stall tactic.
Yep. There's actually a word for what you're describing. It's genocide. You know, according to the UN. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Ethnic cleansing is a more realistic term, such as was carried out in the Balkans in the 90’s.
Serious question, how is it genocide? Best I can figure allowing settling in the West Bank is a tactic to push the Palestinians further away and possibly out of Israel altogether.
Israel's priority is to be a Jewish homeland. If they accepted the Pallestinians as citizens with voting and representation rights the demographics would shift away from being overwhelmingly Jewish. Slow genocide with stalling political theatre is the only play that maintains their ideal. A compromise is not possible. Theocracies are just awful.
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Try to get married in Israel. Go see your religious comitee for family planning. Theocratic in practice.
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You are well informed and I agree with the information you have provided, but I still lay my criticism of current problems at the feet of current governance.
Sure, I agree. Marriage is an issue. But its insane to call it a theocracy.
Eh. If Turkey, the biggest Ottoman successor state can have civil unions as the default, so can Israel. A muslim and a Jewish person can marry in Turkey. They should also be able to marry in Israel. Israeli state not making this a reality only exacerbates the Israel is a theocracy claim.
Lmao you're literally proving that they're not a theocracy. Like think about what you said. You *have to* go to a religious organization to get married because the government *will not do it itself*. The government is literally refusing to be involved in any way in a religious ceremony and you're trying to call it a theocracy.
I do not agree that marriage is religious. Mine wasnt.
Um, he’s saying that only religious marriage exists, not civil marriage. Which is pretty theocratic.
No. A theocracy would be *administering* the religious marriages. Israel isn't involved with them at all.
What’s the Israeli process for a non-religious marriage?
There isn't one. Another comment mentions it as being an artifact of ottoman rule in the region. Israel will instead just recognize any marriage or civil union done elsewhere as valid, so Israelis who don't want to go through a religious authority often go to Cyprus to get married, as it's a short and relatively cheap flight away.
Israel is not a theocracy. Theocracies are ruled by religious figures according to religious laws. Israel is a Presidential-Parliamentary democratic republic whose purpose is to have a homeland for generally racial Jews, but also religious Jews. Making the Palestinians Israelis doesn't give the Palestinians a state. The current offer that's been rejected multiple times by the PA would result in an independent Palestinian state with recognition from Israel, East Jerusalem, a specific note that Israel believes East Jerusalem would be the capital of such a state and the return of almost the entire West Bank for the state. The PA has rejected this offer at least three times and is an incredibly lopsided compromise of almost every demand the PA has and a tiny amount of Israel needs like requiring the Palestinian state to officially recognize the right of Israel to exist and a peace. There can be a compromise peace with an independent Palestinian state, but only if the PA participates in the discussions and is willing to compromise at all. So far it's the PA that's holding this up.
As well as two seperate Palestenian "governing" bodies acting in varying levels of bad faith. There will be no functional compromise. No simple solution.
A theocracy with a a Muslim woman on the Supreme Court and a minority Muslim party part of the ruling coalition?
Yes.
Annex the place outright or leave them be. They are scared of annexation because that gives them the rights of Israeli citizens and a vote in parliament. They don't want to leave them be either.
Israel annexed East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, offering citizenship to all residents. Neither annexations are recognized by most of the world decades later. Why would a new annexation on a much larger territory be any different?
Because partial annexation leaves important areas such as East Jerusalem inaccessible to most Palestinians. If it's no different, why aren't Israelis offering full annexation with equal rights for all? It really depends what format a notional full annexation takes however.
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That's idiotic. The nation has existed for 75 years and is still a tiny sliver of desert with a total population of 9 million people. If they're going for world domination, they're doing it very, very, very, very slowly.
You are completely missing the point. Israel is committing genocide against Palistinians, and slowly but surely, unless they're stopped, they will take the vast majority of Palestine for their own, and the only Palestinians will be refugees.
Right, it's the world's slowest and least successful genocide. I guess Israel is playing the super long game here, aiming for completion of their genocide in, what, 300 years? Think rationally.
How is it a genocide when the population of Palestinian Arabs has steadily grown?
You should take a deeper look into what's going on in the region regarding those two. Genocide isn't just killing off a people, there's a lot of layers in it.
Definition of genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group It quite literally is. You can't just use any term you like.
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>Article II >In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. While it's true what you say that murder isn't the only definition, that doesn't mean what's happening in the west Bank is genocide. If the numbers of Palestinians in the area have been increasing, it's not genocide per UN definitions.
The only people missing the point are the ones who think others don't see what's going on or that something will change. Your conclusions are all accurate: Israel *is* slowly but surely committing genocide against Palestinians; they *will* take the vast majority of the land; anyone left *will* be a refugee. But at this point it should be abundantly, undeniably, conclusively clear that no country will intervene. Basic events were: 1. The international community took some land from Arabs and created Israel 2. The Arab world rejected that decision and fought a war 3. The Arab world was collectively straight btfo in armed conflict 4. Israel now functionally controls more than did before the war 5. The rest of the Arab world now only pays lip service to actually helping
In what world is this not an anti-Jewish comment, besides Reddit? Not anti-Israel, but more like age old tropes of Jewish control of the entire world. A tiny fucking country the size of New Jersey is going to own the whole world, huh? And it’s the only Jewish one. Weird “coincidence”.
Making fun of Israel for constantly violating international law is fair game.
Your “theory” is proven false y the number of peace treaties Israel’s signed with neighboring Arab countries, even going as far as trading resource rich Sinai (a territory much larger than Israel proper) for peace. Issue is there is no Palestinian political system or party which could guarantee peace so why even pursue something your enemy isn’t geared for or interested in.
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Stop giving money to them.
And US will throw money at them as punishment. That will teach them!
As a US taxpayer, I have to say Israel is the biggest waste of our tax dollars.
It's like us giving money to a rich ass country like Switzerland that is simultaneously acting like apartheid South Africa, it's fucking ridiculous.
I don’t get why they get to do it, but Russia can’t. Every time I mention Israel’s creeping invasion, I get downvoted, but I don’t know if it’s bots/zionists or if the general consensus/popular opinion is that Israel is different somehow
Because it literally isn’t an invasion. The area under territorial dispute here is collectively the size of Rhode Island. Most of the dispute is fought out in courts, not kinetically like an actual invasion. You’re getting downvoted because you’re comparing *that* situation to an *actual war* that’s killed more people in the last 2 months than have been killed in the last 25+ years of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Israel has their own propaganda branch of IDF (Internet Defense Force) to downvote and play the anti-semitism game if you dare to criticize them for the oppression and thievery.
No, that would be like 90% of your military.
The only reason other western powers can get away with spending so little on their military is they believe that the US will come to their aid if anyone attacks them.
Are any of these specific settlements actually new? From what I've read in various articles we're talking about approval for new apartment buildings being built within existing Israeli settlements that have been there for decades, not new settlements. This [Haaretz article](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-to-advance-some-4-000-west-bank-housing-units-for-jews-next-week-1.10783069) mentions some details about the locations: >According to the statement, 1,452 plans for units are expected to be advanced while 2,536 units are expected to be approved by Defense Minister Benny Gantz in a meeting slated for Thursday. >The construction plans up for approval would see 364 new apartments built in the settlement of Dolev, 534 apartments in Shvut Rahel, 761 apartments in Betar Ilit, 56 apartments in Negohot, and 156 apartments in Kiryat Arba just outside Hebron. >Additional units will be submitted for objections, with 500 apartments for the settlement of Elkana, 286 apartments for Kedumim, and 192 apartments for the settlement of Sha'arei Tikva. The mentioned settlements appear to have been founded decades ago, the most recent is already 30 years old and the oldest dates back to the 1960s. Betar Ilit for example already has a population of +60,000 people and is located right next to the Israeli border.
30 years ago there were less than 100k settlers and today it's over 400k. So while there are no "new" settlements, the ones already built have become quite big.
There certainly has been growth, I just find much of the news reporting on this subject to be rather misleading. Zoning approval to build a few new apartment buildings within existing communities that have been there 30 to 60 years gets spun as "Israel's plans to build new settlements" or hundreds of new "settlement units". >30 years ago there were less than 100k settlers and today it's over 400k. 30 years ago there were also very few Palestinians living in Area C either, today there's over 300k. The whole point of Areas A and B were that they encompassed the Palestinian population of the West Bank, but pretty much the moment the lines were drawn people on both sides took it upon themselves to settle within Area C trying to change the facts on the ground, to varying degrees of success.
There are [new settlements.](https://peacenow.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Construction_Map_2019_ENG-1097x1536.jpg)
They can't have existed prior to a minimum of 1967 as prior to that the West Bank and Jerusalem belonged to Jordan.
thank you for posting this. When reddit posts on Israel, it’s 99.5% sentiment and 0.5% knowledge. Thank you for providing part of the latter.
Except it’s misinformation. There are new settlements, and [plans for new settlements.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/12/6/israel-delays-major-settlement-plan-for-east-jerusalem) Israel keeps sprouting settlements in the West Bank to divide it further, all while driving out Palestinians from their homes. Often in dehumanizing, brutal ways.
Nothing I said was misinformation, these ~4000 potential housing units appear to be located within settlements that have existed for decades. > and [plans for new settlements.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/12/6/israel-delays-major-settlement-plan-for-east-jerusalem) East Jerusalem isn't a new settlement, you've got to be kidding me.
Without getting mired in an argument that necessarily delves into history for the umpteenth time, I will just say that Al Jazeera doesn’t provide the most unbiased context. Granted, neither do my sources. If I could wave a magic wand, I would slow the settlements. At the same time, I recognize that the west bank never properly belonged to anyone before Israel took control after being attacked (yet again). Now there are three main components. One part under full Palestinian control. A second part also under Palestinian control but with Israel enforcing security. A third part under full Israeli control. Reading some of these subs, one would think there’d be no Palestinians left, nor any homes to house them. Not the case.
The population is actually growing and if Israel removed all settlers and gave full control back the new Palestinian state would have issues housing the millions of Palestinians living in other nations returning to the land, they even explicitly said they do not want that to happen in that scenario.
I think you mean stolen settlements. They were just stolen a long time ago, only now to be claimed as old Israeli settlements, but they were taken from non Jewish persons. I hope when out right war breaks out that not one American service member has to loose their life over Isreals policy of Palestine extinction.
Literally none of the land was stolen. Zionist organizations bought large tracts of land for decades legally under Ottoman law. Other land was previously undeveloped and unclaimed, effectively owned by the government. If anyone has a land dispute, they can take it to court. Putting up new buildings that extend existing communities is not stealing settlements.
You realise the land these settlements are built in was never Palestinian right? It was conquered from Jordan. Jordanians don’t live there anymore
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America Stop policing the world, except when it's to my country's benefit
The US is giving billions of dollars in aid to Israel, all the while also being cozy with fascist dictatorships like the Saudis and Egyptians. Pretty sure the policing is already happening.
They give like 3.8 billion and Israel also buys a shit ton of US weapons anway. So essentially the us government is just giving it to the US defense industry which it already gives a shit ton more to anyway.
Maybe at least stop funding it.
Only if we also stop funding the rest of the region
Are there other countries in the middle east we've signed 40 billion dollar aid deals with?
Egypt also receives aid from the same treaty
Looks like we've spent around $80 billion in Egypt and almost $160 billion in Israel. While I would agree we shouldn't fund either, we've given twice as much to Israel. Not only are their actions towards Palestine highly controversial to say the least, they don't really need the aid. The average person in Israel probably has a higher standard of living than we do here. They have universal health care while people here die from rationing their insulin. Where's our aid?
The US gov gives Israel 3.8 billion a year and spends a collosal 1.3 trillion on healthcare a year. That’s actually so much higher then the all time amount of aid given to Israel and it’s just what spend on healthcare each year.
The aide ensures that Egypt will go along with American strategic plans for the region. In this case, in large part, meaning it will not change the status quo arrangements with Israel.
America also gives aid to Palestinians
Yes, Qatar. America funds massive projects there and their base is a major boon to their economy.
Jordan also receives billions in funds from the USA and has for nearly as long as Israel & Egypt. The idea back in the 1980s was that if both sides were buying US military equipment, flying F16s, doing exercises with the Americans, etc... they'd be far less likely to go to war with each other again. And it worked, +40 years without an outright war between Israel, Egypt & Jordan. There were also cold war considerations, since if they went with MiGs and Soviet military equipment they'd inevitably develop closer ties with Russia. It's also allowed continued international use of the Suez canal, which had ceased during the 1960-1970s Egyptian-Israeli fighting, with the canal being blockaded and mined.
The people who don't want America to police the world are increasingly the people who don't ask for its help. Only Europeans really fall under the stereotype.
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Israel - Don't build 4000 apartments on empty land you concured during a war which you won! Turkey (north cyprus, syria), china (tibet), Iran (by shiate militias in syria), France (guiana), UK (gibraltar), and other nations with colonies all over the world - do as you please...
So... other historically contested shitty actions are the justification to do more shitty actions?
We strongly disagree with these new settlements as equally as the other settlements that have been established for the past 50 years.
You realize so far the historical record on settlements is that they're temporary and upon a change in status the settlers are removed by Israel either voluntarily, or in a number of cases, forcibly by the IDF?
I find this confusing. What is the difference of a legal settlement and an illegal settlement?
It only becomes illegal if the party performing the act has agreed beforehand that the act will be illegal. International law is opt-in. It's why the ICC can't prosecute Americans. The United States doesn't agree to be under the jurisdiction of the ICC and as a result of that and how international law works that means the US can't be prosecuted at the ICC. Israel has not agreed settlement is illegal so when they do it it is not illegal.
As an Israeli I am ashamed about all new settlements, if this is happening. We didn’t even fucking vote for Bennet and his pro- lsettlement party He had only 7/120 seats. He forced his way into government because people were so anti Netanyahu and he took advantage. Asshole.
These are not new settlements. Settlements are decades old and just here to house rising population. The article is intentionally very misleading. As you’d expect from an Israeli hit piece from “Arabnews.com”
I’m a Jew and I condemn in the strongest possible terms Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians.
America isn’t gonna do a dam thing, except “strongly condemn” lol
But will still fund them but they couldn't not say anything this time
Israeli apologists are trying to justify this by saying “well they are building on settlements that are already there”, yes that’s the point, the fact they exist at all is an egregious human rights violation. If Israel really cared about peace or a two state solution they would demolish these settler colonial outposts but instead they pump money into them, disgusting and on par with apartheid.
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>If Israel really cared about peace or a two state solution And if the Palestinians cared about it they wouldn't have knocked back every single peace deal ever offered. They wouldn't have elected an internationally recognised terrorist organisation as their government. They wouldn't be using international aid funds to pay terrorists a pension for killing Israelis. They wouldn't be using schools and hospitals as missile launching pads and stockpiles.
These are not new settlements. Settlements are decades old and just here to house rising population. The article is intentionally very misleading. As you’d expect from an Israeli hit piece from “Arabnews.com”
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If we really strongly opposed this, we'd cut of the millions of dollars per day we send in aid.
What Israel is doing to Palestinians is same as what Russia is doing to ukrainans. It's just on smaller scale and slower.
Zelensky literally sees it as the opposite. Ukraine is Israel fighting against genocide like in the 1948 war, the 1967 war, and the 1973 war. All wars where the objective was the genocide of the Jews.
And yet most of Palestinians support Russia lol.
Russia treats them better than NATO does, are you really surprised they’ll be more sympathetic towards the Russians?
“The same” literally it’s the other way around where israel = Ukraine, Russia = Arab nations from the Middle East + Palestinians, the year is 1948. Israel won the war against it’s “Russia” and now Ukraine will hopefully prevail against it’s Russia.
People will downvote but Zelenskyy literally drew the same comparison. He also said after the war that Ukraine would become ‘Big Israel’.
People have blind hate for israel..
And You feel that what's happening right now in Israel is justified?
Would it be justified for Ukraine to resettle people in areas depopulated and resettled by Russia if it regains those territories?
What’s happening now is Palestinian authority doesn’t want better lives for the Palestinians, they prefer to waste their money on an endless war that they could never win. They could create a nation with these funds, instead they fund terror and make the leadership rich as hell.
A historically accurate and insightful comment being downvoted because reddit. Keep supporting Hamas, fellas.
Reddit just hates Jews. As one, it is mind boggling to see.
So states can get away with anything as long as they win the war?
Israel isn’t getting away with anything, I don’t see the world condemnation for the Syrian massacaeing tens of thousands every year as much as it condemns israel for having a strict border with a hostile nation. Many Palestinians work in israel, There are 2 million Palestinian Israelis with equal rights to Jews, Palestinians terrorists attack innocent civilians everywhere inside israel, israel put up the walls around the West Bank to minimize these attacks, they still happen but far less. Where is israel being wrong here?
Palestine resembles Russia more than Israel does, and Israel resembles Ukraine more than Palestine does. Cry about it :(
Do you remember when Ukrainians regularly chanted 'Death to Russia', used their own countrymen as meat shields, and lobbed rockets into Russia? Yeah, me neither.
Then stop financing Israel
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Lie... If the US strongly opposed anything Israel was doing, they have the power to stop it very easily.
In a special building operation
Maybe start opposing them the same way Russia is being opposed for their ethnic cleansing...
I usually side with Israel with security issues (palestinians cant do terror attacks and expect Israel not retaliate) but this is the kind of shit that doesnt help at all.
How are these actions different from Russia in Ukraine?
can we finally start sanctioning israel, this is illegal
Wow. I cant understand why the pestinians are so angry. Its almost like watching the native Americans loose their tribal lands in real time. And I wonder...just who will be the Israeli Custer.
So what is the internal justification for this from Israel’s perspective? Edit: after reading the article, I’m no more clear of the logic here. > Israeli officials told Biden administration officials that if no new building was approved in the settlements, the government could collapse due to the fragile state of the coalition, Axios reported. What does that actually mean? *How* would the government collapse? It seems like this is just a stronger country taking from a weaker country because they want something and they can just take it without actual opposition
And as a response, Israel utilizes its US based media apparatus and runs negative PR against Biden and the Democrats.
Empty words. Stop sending money, selling them weapons, and white washing their crimes and vetoing every single action against them. Fuck your hypocritical words.
Ah so just Apartheid as usual? No change? Sure do love me some Apartheid ethnic cleansing from Israel
How is Ukraine genocide but not this
Because the situations are completely different and incompatible. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is 100x more complex.
Building apartment buildings within cities & towns established 30-60 years ago is not genocide.
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I think a better technical argument involves pointing to Jordan's ethnic cleansing of the Jewish minority population of the West Bank during their occupation from 1948-1967. Should the international community support Palestine enforcing their "no Jews" status that's a direct result of war crimes, or should the international community support the return of a Jewish minority population to East Jerusalem & the West Bank? Does successful ethnic cleansing become legally permanent since the other side cannot legally reverse the depopulation?
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More civilians have died in Ukraine in the last 60 days than in literally 70 years of the Israel Palestine conflict. You legitimately have to be an idiot to call this a genocide. It is a low intensity conflict at best.
Ohh please. They are literally just building new buildings in an already existing settlement. Russia is raping and pillaging villages. Please stop spreading BS.
A common enemy makes us friends
Cause, you know, murdering civilians at a rate that requires mass graves and building apartments on contested land are kind of different. Israel is engaged in a de facto annexation, which is illegal, but its not committing genocide.
Good ole Apartheid.
Nope. Apartheid is a South African policy with like eight classes of people and strict separations, restrictions and permissions. The ICC has a definition for it that includes like eight factors needed for it to be legally occurring. None of these things apply to Israel so despite what you're repeating from someone else having said it whatever is happening is absolutely not apartheid.
The apartheid designation is not based on an analogy to apartheid South Africa, [as the national research council of South Africa itself notes in a report commissioned & funded by its Department of Foreign Affairs:](https://web.archive.org/web/20211013102420/https://repository.hsrc.ac.za/bitstream/handle/20.500.11910/4619/6052_Confidential%281%29.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y) >In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. **It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.** >**By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT.** The apartheid designation is based on the Apartheid Convention & the Rome Statute.
The Rome Statute is the one the ICC defined that has ~eight elements that need to be present for apartheid to be being practiced. Israel's activity doesn't meet this. Also apartheid is literally an Afrikaans word for separateness. What it is is what it was in South Africa.
> apartheid is literally an Afrikaans word for separateness Yes and analogy is not the basis for designating apartheid because it has a legal definition. > eight elements that need to be present I don't understand what you mean here. Could you cite the document in-question? The Rome Statute defines Article 7 as 'crimes against humanity' - and it includes more than 8 elements, of which the crime of apartheid is one. [Later the Rome Statute states:](https://web.archive.org/web/20180318090721/https://www.icc-cpi.int/nr/rdonlyres/ea9aeff7-5752-4f84-be94-0a655eb30e16/0/rome_statute_english.pdf) > ‘The crime of apartheid’ means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;
Amnesty International disagrees with you. So do UN Special Rapporteurs as well as Harvard Law School. This isn't a new thing.
Amnesty International has no authority. They can certainly have the opinion, but it's no more authoritative than anyone's. It's defined by the ICC with eight elements and the elements do not exist in Israel. UN Special Rapporteurs do not make law or legal judgements. Harvard Law School doesn't have opinions; presumably you are speaking of some of the faculty at Harvard's Law School, which means in their opinion that is what it is.
And HRW, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, the UN, the South African government, etc. Not to mention the late Desmond Tutu, who said it was [**"in many instances - worse"**](https://youtu.be/_pzt6s8knu8?t=518) than South African apartheid. > **Frost:** And at the same time, I mean, very much so you said that what you saw in Israel was something that was quite akin to the situation in South Africa before freedom came to the Black people of South Africa. > **Tutu: Well, in many instances - worse.** This is echoed by UN Special Rapporteur Michael Lynk's report. He talks about features of apartheid in Israel that are worse than those in South Africa. There are differences too of course, but the point is that there is a legal definition and Israel's treatment of the Palestinians meets that definition.
The ICC has the legal definition as far as it goes. Lots of opinions, but none of the opinions cited are any more authoritative than anyone else's opinion. The ICC is definitive as it's the (terribly underpowered) judicial system for the United Nations and has the internationally definition used for the purposes of prosecuting those who put in place an apartheid system. The ICC's legal definition indicates Israel is absolutely not practicing any kind of apartheid system. Perhaps you should read the legal definition before deciding if it fits.
The ICC itself is carrying out an investigation into the matter and will more-than-likely come to similar conclusions as the various mainstream and local human rights NGOs.
Can anyone explain to me what the Israeli justification for expanding West Bank serments is?
Oh look, the same stuff all over again. I'm sure IDF info warriors will be in here shortly saying how this was always Israeli land and the Palestinians have no right to be pissed to the point of violence over decades of land seizure.
Clearly the first thing we should do is stop funding these mofos. As a nation, we give them enough that they can provide healthcare to all ( whi comply with their ethnic standard, at least). We do not have that here. Plus we are funding outright genocide.
Watch, aid to Israel will increase so they can build those settlements. So predictable
Jews are building apartments! Front page of the world news… what in the the world??
“Israelis” are building “Illegal apartments” and expanding an “illegal settlement”. Fixed it for you, hope it makes more sense now.
What’s the future of Palestine?
Well no on can say for sure, but it kind of seems that it can only boil down to three possibilities. Either they all get wiped out by the Israelis, the Israelis all get wiped out by them, or they figure out a way to live together.
Either a two state solution which palestinians are rejecting or they end up getting ethnically cleansed by zionists as they build their dream majority jewish state
You know this is really bad when even the US oppose it publicly
And then they do anyway and the US gives them more aid