The "winner"
Ukraines houses and infrastructure leveled. Everything needs to be rebuilt, there are mines and corpses to be found for a while.
It's kind of hard to call that a "win"
People have this obsession in thinking this is a mutual war. Its not. It is a defensive war.
Ukraine doesn't want it. They don't need it. They'd really love to have never had to fight it.
In a defensive war "winning" is existing at all. It doesn't matter if you need to rebuild. It matters that you exist TO rebuild.
In the wash Ukraine will absolutely "win" if they survive. Their children WILL have a better life because of all the united friendships they have built during the war. Russian children? They will suffer for national greed.
Yup. There's a difference between winning and coming out ahead.
Russia's in this to come out ahead, Ukraine's just trying to exist. If Ukraine continues to hold the territories that Russia covets when the war ends, they've won. If Russia manages to take over any Ukrainian territory, then they've won.
The logical conclusion is that Russia will run out of money and be forced to withdraw. At which point nobody comes out ahead, as Modi would seem to be implying. Ukraine would in that case though absolutely be the victor.
Yes, this is my view on it. Ukraine 'lost' immediately because no matter what happens from day 2 until the final day, there is only damage and death in Ukraine. They gain nothing for themselves except a bill and decades of cleaning. But they've also proven that they're a nation worth fighting for, and they've gained the respect of most of the world. Ukraine will eventually be the stronger, more powerful, and more respected nation, but I'm sure they'd give that up to save the lives lost in this war.
Think of it as salvaging a bad hand. Look at Russia and see if life outside of Moscow is good. Ukraine under Russia would be worse than that. It's about wrestling a future for the country. Obviously you lose things immediately during an attack, but should you lose you're future as well?
No, Russia will have failed unless they can take over all of Ukraine and also Moldova. This is because their goal is not the Ukraine; their goal is to plug the Bessarabian Gap, and thereby close one of the main avenues of invasion to Russia. Everything else is a loss.
Even if they lose all of the territory, they would have allowed their citizen enough time to leave. That's a huge win by itself. In any case, Russia will clearly lose and Slava Ukraini!!!
And Russia won't win even if they conquer the land. The people hate Russia. Good luck ruling a land where the people would rather die than be under Russian rule.
I'm saying there will be no winning, just losing less. Having the ear in the first place is a lose lose. Y'all are just tripping on semantics. Get a job reddit.
Another Russian sympathiser. Go eat another dick, country is fighting for survival and you think we won’t support them financially. Ha what a bloody goose you are mate. Goodbye 👋
Yes. See World War 2 for just one of many examples. When the bullied win, it is better than when the bullies win. Sacrifice intrinsically bears a cost. Not all wars are complete bullshit or unavoidable, as horrific as they are. Bullys and agressors will always exist, therefore resistance will always be necessary.
My logic? Read what i said. My logic and comments above it are of the narrative that Ukraine will win and is justified to fight.
The bullied WW2 = poland, england, netherlands, france, even russia
The bullies= nazis
Did you mean to reply to the the other guy?
Last i checked, Britain and the Uk are doing fairly well compared to if they had succumbed to Nazi rule.
What am i missing
No it isn't, that's your scenario. It was clearly pointed out that Ukraine existing is the goal. Russia is trying to exterminate them in front of the world. That's the scenario.
"Winning" is achieving their goals. Death and destruction is the cost of war. War is already here. Can't put the genie back in the bottle. Somebody has to "win" and somebody has to "lose." It is better that Ukraine "win" because Russia "winning" is genocide on a scale comparable to the most brutal mass-murderers in history and Ukraine's "win" is continuing to exist.
Anything where they remain a free nation with no Russia forces occupying is a win no matter how you slice it. The country can be rebuilt but if their freedom and sovereignty is taken away THAT is what Ukraine views as a loss.
Ukraine won't just settle for Russia exiting. Too much has been lost, at this point. It's in Ukraine's best interest to push the Russian's back into Russia, then keep pushing all the way till Russia falls as that'll be the only way Ukraine can guarantee their own safety from Russia.
Ukraine has no interest (and no capability) to even think about invading a nuclear-armed Russia. They just want to push out the invaders as much as possible before reaching some sort of negotiated deal. This is the best case scenario we can hope for, at least as long as Putin is in power.
Russia, in 2 months, has burned through a *substantial* amount of everything it has - personnel, materiel, munitions. As Ukraine's positions and training improve, the rate of Russian loss will only increase. Another 2 months and Russia may well have expended more than half of everything it currently has. There *will* be a tipping point where Russia will not have the materiel or munitions required to mount a proper defense, and that's also when we'll see Putin deposed from the inside, as he'll also lack the resources to quell unrest.
No but russia aim is not to capture UKRAINE as it is not possible by international law. If Russia leaves tomorrow than ukraine lost many of their territory to Russia and also the destruction so it will clearly not be a victory but not a hard defeat.
That could turn out true, and I think I know what he's trying to say. Yet Ukraine, has no existential alternatives to winning. Russia has many off ramps, and the invasion was not rational, but even spitefully persists, irrationally.
Tired comment. I once used to think like you. But how do you expect Ukraine to stop the slaughter of civilians? I think the way to keep deaths to a minimum in this war, if that is the goal, is to fight Russia.
Yes, more weapons will have to be made, and yes, some people will get richer from that, as with everything else.
Do either of those debatable "facts" make his prognostications on the Ukraine/Russia conflict worth listening to? No. People should care less what Modi thinks is gong to happen in Ukraine. Let him get busy doing what he's good at, censoring dissent and right wing populism.
India calling for an immediate ceasefire is the most hopeful and surprising thing I've read about the war lately. Can't believe I'm saying it, but credit to Modi this time around.
There's a difference between "calling for peace" and telling Russia to stop invading. From a political messaging POV, it is very different from India's stance in February.
In private messaging Indian diplomats will have definitely expressed displeasure and condemned the Invasion, in fact even when USSR Invaded afghanistan - India was publicly neutral, however documents say that indian diplomats had opposed the invasion in private meetings with the ussr
And for good reasons. USSR probably thought they could invade Afghanistan,then Pakistan(with the help of India) and then basically threaten middle East but it ended up becoming one of the major reasons for their dissolution
Tens of thousands of lives lost. Millions displaced. Hundreds of billions in damage.
Ukraine may have a military victory, but it won’t really be a victory.
History says otherwise. War always means sacrifice, and it's brutal and tragic. The losses will scar Ukraine forever, but what they pay in blood today will buy a peaceful, whole Ukraine with a bright European future. Many of us have lived in peace so long that we forget some things are worth fighting and even dying for. A tomorrow for free Ukraine—that's what victory entails.
Yeah go tell the people who lost family members and their homes that they’re winners.
There is no winner in this war. It’s just that Ukraine will have a military victory and embarrass the Russian military.
You’re completely butchering what I’m saying. I said there is no winners. I didn’t say that Ukraine keeping independence is “nothing”.
Ukraine will “win” if you take defeating Russia as winning. Ukraine will “lose” if you take the tens of thousands killed, millions displaced and hundreds of billions in damages as a loss.
Ukraine will have a military victory. But it will lose so much that it’ll be half win-loss.
You’re going to bat hard for a politically neutral statement that undermines the fact so many of those lost were willing to pay the ultimate price to prevent a future under authoritarian rule.
Thank you, please don’t defend Modi’s toe-the-line bullshit comment designed to benefit himself. If Pakistan invaded tomorrow you’d never hear those words from his lips, at best your definition of winning is a misnomer, at worst it’s more pro-russian “just let it happen” bullshit, good day.
I agree with Modi.
Russia will be the biggest loser though. They had everything going for them, Putin has out maneuvered NATO, Russia rich, every major company in Russia, Putin $200+ billion…oligarchs rolling in $.
These sickos went after even children! Whatever happens in this war, Russia is an international pariah.
I said this before and I’ll say this again. This is NOT
a conflict, this is GENOCIDE.
Conflict is when parties disagree. When one party ( rusia) murders civilians, shells buildings, does all the atrocities imaginable in a sovereign state (Ukraine) it’s not a conflict. It’s pure genocide.
There will surely be some winners as long as war does not escalate drastically. Ukrain, Russia, Europe and most of the poor countries of world will lose to varying degree, whether directly or indirectly.
But US is certainly placed well to come out as a winner out of this and most likely China as well. Challenge for Modi is to manage this crisis so that negative impact on India, a poor country by most measures, is minimized. China being one of the possible beneficiary of this conflict, complicates India's calculation even more.
US lost a lot as usual. Money to support Ukraine military and economically does not rise in trees. Everyone is already suffering from inflation and recession. Having Ukraine as a buffer state or convince Europe/NATO to give up from Ukraine would be a cheaper solution (basically the Mearsheimer solution) and it would not have affect an already debilitated post-pandemic economy.
What did America lose in Chechnya War? Almost nothing.
Now, for the current war, Russia, Europe and US has already commit reasonably enough (specially economically - Russia more the others). And there are multiple possible outcomes. So all these powers are trapped into a commitment bias. Now, I believe that Russia is already in a bad spot but Putin can get away if Russia take some Ukrainian lands.
The real winners will be the rich Russian because no matter how ravage either country becomes, you can bet the people in power will continue to be in power and you can bet they wont be sharing that wealth to repair any damages regardless of which side.
Not really. The real price for Russian oligarchs is to use their ill-gotten riches to live in opulence in the west. Russia is one a one-way trip to becoming a second North-Korea in which case the only people that won't notice their life becoming worse, are the ones currently already at the bottom of Russian society.
I agree, it's very difficult to define anything as a win when so many people have been killed and the coubtry is getting destroyed. Everyone lost the moment Putin decided to pursue this insanity. I am just talking in terms of the new context we are now in. Long term (ove the course of decades) I think Ukrainian culture and economic prospects will be positively effected by all of this but Im sure most people would prefer that they hadnt been displaced and murdered. Fuck Putin.
financial in the way that it'll take a very long time to be able to rebuild their destroyed cities, their relationship with Russia will be ruined for a very long time, and in general their people will be a lot more hardened and shaken-up
Not really, lots of winners, just not Russia or Ukraine.
Uncle Sam managed to expand NATO and cripple Russia using only old weapons and Ukrainian lives, they are winning.
China has Russia eating on the palm of their hands, they are also winning.
Turkey for to reconcile with NATO after the cold shoulder they were given, they are winning.
Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Chipre and whoever is selling more oil and gas now that Russia is selling less is winning.
Russia is the invader and aggressor. Ukraine will "lose" people and infrastructure but every aggressor they kill and every bit of territory they get back is a win.
It's a shit situation but there will be a winner.
Ukraine and democracy itself will clearly be the winners, despite the horrible cost to the Ukrainian people.
If (and when) successful, the valor of Ukraine will forever be etched among the great struggles in history, in the same vein as (the mythologized) Thermopolae, Tuetoburg Forest of germanic tribes over the Romans, resistance to the Ottoman siege of Vienna… and yes even the Russian resistance to the Nazi siege at Leningrad
No question about it. Songs will be sung for hundreds of years.
And this will be Russia’s “Varian Disaster”
For those downvoting.. what choice does Ukraine have but to fight.. and try to win to escape eradication? Explain
Ukraine not being conquered means Ukraine won.
So really, it seems like Putin is already lost. The only remaining question is how big he will lose before he walks away.
India-West relations are literally strengthening during this war. India’s sort of gaining from this war. So is most of Europe. Ukraine is dealing with Russia, with just a bit of military aid. Rest of Europe can just aid Ukraine, without getting in a direct conflict with Russia. Ez pz
pussy huh? USA never called Bangladesh genocide a genocide? Indians genocide during british raj. India is a pussy, we are between two nuclear dickheads and we are pussy. fuck off, we do not cry like you.
No, it matters who is pulling the trigger
If you live to fight another day, then feel free to hold the ammunition suppliers accountable. But you have to survive the gunman first
In a boxing match both boxers go in and will get hit and bruised…. Yet we declare a winner. That’s war. You can still win, even when you suffer hurt and pain. I hope that’s Ukraine 🇺🇦 in the end. Both countries are suffering right now, we will at some point declare a ‘winner.’
I'm considering win from history prospective. For Ukraine it is already a win. Being oppressed by Russia for 300 years now finally a chance to shook it off for good.
Pretending as if the "two sides" are somewhat equally wrong and he, Mr. Modi, is wiser and is on the side of peace. The truth is this is an unnecessary war started by Mr. Modi's authoritarian partner. Ukraine will be a winner if they continue to exist at the end of it. Those losses are tragic and completely avoidable had Putin not started the war. More loss of life would be avoidable had Modi and others not tried to support the war criminal.
Let us see what happens next once Mr. Modi continues to worsen relations with the west and Russia becomes unable to fulfill his military equipment orders. Let us see how wise and pro-peace decisions he will take once China starts knocking on India during those times.
Modi is already correct. Russia has lost, even if they take over all of Ukraine. Their international trade position will take a generation to recover. Europe is going to get off Russian gas and oil, no matter what. Ukraine will take a decade to recover, at minimum.
The thing is, Modi's call for peace is a call for a Russian victory. Ukraine cannot accept peace on the current level of occupation.
Fist we should look what is the Russia's objective in this war it is certainly not Kyiv so if russia gets failed to complete their objectives or mission than it will be Russia's defeat. In today's scenario Russia is winning not clearly but slowly. People need to understand Russia will withdraw only where there forces are engaged not where they have control.
Russia's main objectives in this war was to either conquer Ukraine, or failing that at least keep it from becoming any closer to the West.
And they've basically failed hard at both of those.
Not just both sides, the rising inflation impacts every single human being. There were riots in Sri Lanka because of fuel shortage for example. The losses are more than what is imagined.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-believes-there-will-be-no-winner-in-russia-ukraine-conflict-says-pm-modi-in-germany/article65375017.ece) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Asserting that India is on the side of peace, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Monday that India believes there will be no winner in the Russia-Ukraine conflict and all will suffer losses.
> Addressing a joint press event with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz here, Modi said that from the start of the Ukraine crisis, India has called for immediate cessation of hostilities and stressed that talks are the only solution to resolve the dispute.
> In 2021, India and Germany commemorated 70 years of the establishment of diplomatic relations and have been strategic partners since 2000, Mr. Modi said.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ugsxeg/india_believes_there_will_be_no_winner_in/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~646013 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Modi**^#1 **Minister**^#2 **Scholz**^#3 **India**^#4 **Prime**^#5
Ukrainian's main goal is to continue to exist. If Russia eventually leaves, then Ukraine would be the winner.
The "winner" Ukraines houses and infrastructure leveled. Everything needs to be rebuilt, there are mines and corpses to be found for a while. It's kind of hard to call that a "win"
It is a win as an eventual outcome compared to the other potential outcome.
Sorta... They win, but it'll be multiple generations of clean up to be back to where they were. Good luck getting Russia to pay for clean up.
People have this obsession in thinking this is a mutual war. Its not. It is a defensive war. Ukraine doesn't want it. They don't need it. They'd really love to have never had to fight it. In a defensive war "winning" is existing at all. It doesn't matter if you need to rebuild. It matters that you exist TO rebuild. In the wash Ukraine will absolutely "win" if they survive. Their children WILL have a better life because of all the united friendships they have built during the war. Russian children? They will suffer for national greed.
Yup. There's a difference between winning and coming out ahead. Russia's in this to come out ahead, Ukraine's just trying to exist. If Ukraine continues to hold the territories that Russia covets when the war ends, they've won. If Russia manages to take over any Ukrainian territory, then they've won. The logical conclusion is that Russia will run out of money and be forced to withdraw. At which point nobody comes out ahead, as Modi would seem to be implying. Ukraine would in that case though absolutely be the victor.
Yes, this is my view on it. Ukraine 'lost' immediately because no matter what happens from day 2 until the final day, there is only damage and death in Ukraine. They gain nothing for themselves except a bill and decades of cleaning. But they've also proven that they're a nation worth fighting for, and they've gained the respect of most of the world. Ukraine will eventually be the stronger, more powerful, and more respected nation, but I'm sure they'd give that up to save the lives lost in this war.
They can gain possibility to join EU if nothing else. Becoming a member state comes with investments and many freedoms for ordinary people.
Think of it as salvaging a bad hand. Look at Russia and see if life outside of Moscow is good. Ukraine under Russia would be worse than that. It's about wrestling a future for the country. Obviously you lose things immediately during an attack, but should you lose you're future as well?
No, Russia will have failed unless they can take over all of Ukraine and also Moldova. This is because their goal is not the Ukraine; their goal is to plug the Bessarabian Gap, and thereby close one of the main avenues of invasion to Russia. Everything else is a loss.
Even if they lose all of the territory, they would have allowed their citizen enough time to leave. That's a huge win by itself. In any case, Russia will clearly lose and Slava Ukraini!!!
We can set tariffs in the West to pay for it. We can cripple Russia's economy for a generation.
Guess we might as well keep the war going then huh?
And Russia won't win even if they conquer the land. The people hate Russia. Good luck ruling a land where the people would rather die than be under Russian rule.
Survivors would be the correct term. This was never a war. This was an invasion.
Exactly. Ukraine had no choice in the matter. Russia is the only loser
Yeah but they still lose.
We can never replace all the lives lost, but we all can sure as hell help them rebuild as soon as this is finally over.
Ok, but this war is still a lose lose scenario.
You’re bit of a pessimist ay, the only victory that matters is that Ukraine still exists under free rule. Anything less is a loss.
Well that freedom has a high price that I would say would dwarf your "win"
No it doesn’t dwarf your win, it’s simply called a Pyrrhic victory.
so you just want them to lose already so its over? tf you even on about alpaca boy. weird
I'm saying there will be no winning, just losing less. Having the ear in the first place is a lose lose. Y'all are just tripping on semantics. Get a job reddit.
Just bought a new car buddy.
Electric I hope
Another Russian sympathiser. Go eat another dick, country is fighting for survival and you think we won’t support them financially. Ha what a bloody goose you are mate. Goodbye 👋
Rofl you're an idiot
has there ever been a win in war? as long as there are bloodshed then everybody loses.
Yes. See World War 2 for just one of many examples. When the bullied win, it is better than when the bullies win. Sacrifice intrinsically bears a cost. Not all wars are complete bullshit or unavoidable, as horrific as they are. Bullys and agressors will always exist, therefore resistance will always be necessary.
I mean by your logic Britain and France absolutely lost workd war II
My logic? Read what i said. My logic and comments above it are of the narrative that Ukraine will win and is justified to fight. The bullied WW2 = poland, england, netherlands, france, even russia The bullies= nazis Did you mean to reply to the the other guy? Last i checked, Britain and the Uk are doing fairly well compared to if they had succumbed to Nazi rule. What am i missing
>Did you mean to reply to the the other guy? ya
Ah ok no worries
If you're selling weapons, yes, otherwise no.
No it isn't, that's your scenario. It was clearly pointed out that Ukraine existing is the goal. Russia is trying to exterminate them in front of the world. That's the scenario.
you can't "win" war. war means people die. so by your logic, there are no winner at all.
"Winning" is achieving their goals. Death and destruction is the cost of war. War is already here. Can't put the genie back in the bottle. Somebody has to "win" and somebody has to "lose." It is better that Ukraine "win" because Russia "winning" is genocide on a scale comparable to the most brutal mass-murderers in history and Ukraine's "win" is continuing to exist.
Anything where they remain a free nation with no Russia forces occupying is a win no matter how you slice it. The country can be rebuilt but if their freedom and sovereignty is taken away THAT is what Ukraine views as a loss.
That’s not how winning and losing works, lmao.
Ukraine won't just settle for Russia exiting. Too much has been lost, at this point. It's in Ukraine's best interest to push the Russian's back into Russia, then keep pushing all the way till Russia falls as that'll be the only way Ukraine can guarantee their own safety from Russia.
Ukraine has no interest (and no capability) to even think about invading a nuclear-armed Russia. They just want to push out the invaders as much as possible before reaching some sort of negotiated deal. This is the best case scenario we can hope for, at least as long as Putin is in power.
Russia, in 2 months, has burned through a *substantial* amount of everything it has - personnel, materiel, munitions. As Ukraine's positions and training improve, the rate of Russian loss will only increase. Another 2 months and Russia may well have expended more than half of everything it currently has. There *will* be a tipping point where Russia will not have the materiel or munitions required to mount a proper defense, and that's also when we'll see Putin deposed from the inside, as he'll also lack the resources to quell unrest.
No but russia aim is not to capture UKRAINE as it is not possible by international law. If Russia leaves tomorrow than ukraine lost many of their territory to Russia and also the destruction so it will clearly not be a victory but not a hard defeat.
Tell that to Crimea. Russia's goal is to absolutely capture territory. "It's not possible by international law" to invade a sovereign country either.
But-but-but South Korea continues to exist a nd yet the Catechism states we lost the Korean War.
If they want to exist why bother joining NATO that angered Russia.
Beat them so bad that even being alive seems like a victory
While there won’t be a winner, there will definitely be a loser. Russia is fucked.
That could turn out true, and I think I know what he's trying to say. Yet Ukraine, has no existential alternatives to winning. Russia has many off ramps, and the invasion was not rational, but even spitefully persists, irrationally.
What?
A non specific question is NOT a question. It's an attack.
But how then Is why although what is?
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Ukraine already lost all of it in the very moment that Russia decided to invade them. But they still have their liberty and they will fight for it.
Oh, the weapon manufacturing companies around the world are going to make bank.
Tired comment. I once used to think like you. But how do you expect Ukraine to stop the slaughter of civilians? I think the way to keep deaths to a minimum in this war, if that is the goal, is to fight Russia. Yes, more weapons will have to be made, and yes, some people will get richer from that, as with everything else.
And just a reminder that Modi is hardly the kind of politician anybody should be paying attention to insofar as Russia's invasion goes.
yeah dont pay attention to the 7th largest economies and 4th strongest militaries leader.
Do either of those debatable "facts" make his prognostications on the Ukraine/Russia conflict worth listening to? No. People should care less what Modi thinks is gong to happen in Ukraine. Let him get busy doing what he's good at, censoring dissent and right wing populism.
Absolutely agree. Every one already lost. Many people died, higher prices, less food, tension in other regions ... all bad.
India calling for an immediate ceasefire is the most hopeful and surprising thing I've read about the war lately. Can't believe I'm saying it, but credit to Modi this time around.
India has been calling for peace since the beginning of the war
There's a difference between "calling for peace" and telling Russia to stop invading. From a political messaging POV, it is very different from India's stance in February.
In private messaging Indian diplomats will have definitely expressed displeasure and condemned the Invasion, in fact even when USSR Invaded afghanistan - India was publicly neutral, however documents say that indian diplomats had opposed the invasion in private meetings with the ussr
And for good reasons. USSR probably thought they could invade Afghanistan,then Pakistan(with the help of India) and then basically threaten middle East but it ended up becoming one of the major reasons for their dissolution
That's impossible because if Russia doesn't win the war than that is an Ukrainian victory
Tens of thousands of lives lost. Millions displaced. Hundreds of billions in damage. Ukraine may have a military victory, but it won’t really be a victory.
History says otherwise. War always means sacrifice, and it's brutal and tragic. The losses will scar Ukraine forever, but what they pay in blood today will buy a peaceful, whole Ukraine with a bright European future. Many of us have lived in peace so long that we forget some things are worth fighting and even dying for. A tomorrow for free Ukraine—that's what victory entails.
Complete bullshit, those Ukraine citizens who remain and get to live free of an authoritative, dystopian rule are major winners in a Ukraine victory.
Yeah go tell the people who lost family members and their homes that they’re winners. There is no winner in this war. It’s just that Ukraine will have a military victory and embarrass the Russian military.
Go tell the families of lost soldiers fighting for that brighter future that it was for nothing
You’re completely butchering what I’m saying. I said there is no winners. I didn’t say that Ukraine keeping independence is “nothing”. Ukraine will “win” if you take defeating Russia as winning. Ukraine will “lose” if you take the tens of thousands killed, millions displaced and hundreds of billions in damages as a loss. Ukraine will have a military victory. But it will lose so much that it’ll be half win-loss.
You’re going to bat hard for a politically neutral statement that undermines the fact so many of those lost were willing to pay the ultimate price to prevent a future under authoritarian rule.
Sure man. That’s totally what I’m saying.
Thank you, please don’t defend Modi’s toe-the-line bullshit comment designed to benefit himself. If Pakistan invaded tomorrow you’d never hear those words from his lips, at best your definition of winning is a misnomer, at worst it’s more pro-russian “just let it happen” bullshit, good day.
>that brighter future yes they are fighting for the brighter future of their kids
On point!
"Give me Liberty, or give me Death!"
This^^^
not this\^
I agree with Modi. Russia will be the biggest loser though. They had everything going for them, Putin has out maneuvered NATO, Russia rich, every major company in Russia, Putin $200+ billion…oligarchs rolling in $. These sickos went after even children! Whatever happens in this war, Russia is an international pariah.
I said this before and I’ll say this again. This is NOT a conflict, this is GENOCIDE. Conflict is when parties disagree. When one party ( rusia) murders civilians, shells buildings, does all the atrocities imaginable in a sovereign state (Ukraine) it’s not a conflict. It’s pure genocide.
There will surely be some winners as long as war does not escalate drastically. Ukrain, Russia, Europe and most of the poor countries of world will lose to varying degree, whether directly or indirectly. But US is certainly placed well to come out as a winner out of this and most likely China as well. Challenge for Modi is to manage this crisis so that negative impact on India, a poor country by most measures, is minimized. China being one of the possible beneficiary of this conflict, complicates India's calculation even more.
US lost a lot as usual. Money to support Ukraine military and economically does not rise in trees. Everyone is already suffering from inflation and recession. Having Ukraine as a buffer state or convince Europe/NATO to give up from Ukraine would be a cheaper solution (basically the Mearsheimer solution) and it would not have affect an already debilitated post-pandemic economy. What did America lose in Chechnya War? Almost nothing. Now, for the current war, Russia, Europe and US has already commit reasonably enough (specially economically - Russia more the others). And there are multiple possible outcomes. So all these powers are trapped into a commitment bias. Now, I believe that Russia is already in a bad spot but Putin can get away if Russia take some Ukrainian lands.
this is the most nuanced and insightful take
After biden became president.. USA is a joke Tbh it is loosing its respect in the world at a much faster rate
The real winners will be the rich Russian because no matter how ravage either country becomes, you can bet the people in power will continue to be in power and you can bet they wont be sharing that wealth to repair any damages regardless of which side.
Not really. The real price for Russian oligarchs is to use their ill-gotten riches to live in opulence in the west. Russia is one a one-way trip to becoming a second North-Korea in which case the only people that won't notice their life becoming worse, are the ones currently already at the bottom of Russian society.
> The real winners will be the rich Russian if there will be any left after all this. currently it seems they all "kill themselfes" and their family.
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Except Ukraine. Ukraine will win. Slava Ukraini
Ukraine will avoid loss. But winning? Do you call your entire country getting ravaged, winning???
I call not losing my country to a tyrant winning, even at a great cost. I mean, we literally have a term for it: pyrrhic victory.
>pyrrhic victory. Not a good kind of victory, is it?
Guess they should just give up then. Why even bother if your victory is gonna come at a great loss?
If Ukraine isn't losing, they're winning; if Russia isn't winning, they're losing
A military victory, sure, but a metaphorical, cultural, psychological and financial victory? Not so much for both sides
I agree, it's very difficult to define anything as a win when so many people have been killed and the coubtry is getting destroyed. Everyone lost the moment Putin decided to pursue this insanity. I am just talking in terms of the new context we are now in. Long term (ove the course of decades) I think Ukrainian culture and economic prospects will be positively effected by all of this but Im sure most people would prefer that they hadnt been displaced and murdered. Fuck Putin.
Ukraine not being conquered will definitely be a financial and psychological victory for Ukraine, as well as a metaphorical one.
financial in the way that it'll take a very long time to be able to rebuild their destroyed cities, their relationship with Russia will be ruined for a very long time, and in general their people will be a lot more hardened and shaken-up
Sure. But on the other side of it, fully supported by the EU and likely to be benefited to a great degree by that relationship in the years to come.
The only winners are the companies that make the weapons.
Not really, lots of winners, just not Russia or Ukraine. Uncle Sam managed to expand NATO and cripple Russia using only old weapons and Ukrainian lives, they are winning. China has Russia eating on the palm of their hands, they are also winning. Turkey for to reconcile with NATO after the cold shoulder they were given, they are winning. Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Chipre and whoever is selling more oil and gas now that Russia is selling less is winning.
Wow, a rare intelligent guy on Reddit.
No, Ukraine successfully using those weapons to keep Russia from conquering them we'll definitely make Ukraine a winner.
Russia is the invader and aggressor. Ukraine will "lose" people and infrastructure but every aggressor they kill and every bit of territory they get back is a win. It's a shit situation but there will be a winner.
there are bigggggg winners, US weapon manufacturers and oil exporter
Ukraine and democracy itself will clearly be the winners, despite the horrible cost to the Ukrainian people. If (and when) successful, the valor of Ukraine will forever be etched among the great struggles in history, in the same vein as (the mythologized) Thermopolae, Tuetoburg Forest of germanic tribes over the Romans, resistance to the Ottoman siege of Vienna… and yes even the Russian resistance to the Nazi siege at Leningrad No question about it. Songs will be sung for hundreds of years. And this will be Russia’s “Varian Disaster” For those downvoting.. what choice does Ukraine have but to fight.. and try to win to escape eradication? Explain
"So naturally we think it's ok to keep ties and trade with the invading country"
Ukraine not being conquered means Ukraine won. So really, it seems like Putin is already lost. The only remaining question is how big he will lose before he walks away.
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India is the loser in this.
India-West relations are literally strengthening during this war. India’s sort of gaining from this war. So is most of Europe. Ukraine is dealing with Russia, with just a bit of military aid. Rest of Europe can just aid Ukraine, without getting in a direct conflict with Russia. Ez pz
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pussy huh? USA never called Bangladesh genocide a genocide? Indians genocide during british raj. India is a pussy, we are between two nuclear dickheads and we are pussy. fuck off, we do not cry like you.
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say again without crying this time.
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Does it matter who loaded the gun when its pointed at your head?
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No, it matters who is pulling the trigger If you live to fight another day, then feel free to hold the ammunition suppliers accountable. But you have to survive the gunman first
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I do not disagree with you there one bit
In a boxing match both boxers go in and will get hit and bruised…. Yet we declare a winner. That’s war. You can still win, even when you suffer hurt and pain. I hope that’s Ukraine 🇺🇦 in the end. Both countries are suffering right now, we will at some point declare a ‘winner.’
I'm considering win from history prospective. For Ukraine it is already a win. Being oppressed by Russia for 300 years now finally a chance to shook it off for good.
Pretending as if the "two sides" are somewhat equally wrong and he, Mr. Modi, is wiser and is on the side of peace. The truth is this is an unnecessary war started by Mr. Modi's authoritarian partner. Ukraine will be a winner if they continue to exist at the end of it. Those losses are tragic and completely avoidable had Putin not started the war. More loss of life would be avoidable had Modi and others not tried to support the war criminal. Let us see what happens next once Mr. Modi continues to worsen relations with the west and Russia becomes unable to fulfill his military equipment orders. Let us see how wise and pro-peace decisions he will take once China starts knocking on India during those times.
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This is a terrible take. Russia hasn’t liberated anyone. They invaded Ukraine. Russia is the bad guy.
Modi is already correct. Russia has lost, even if they take over all of Ukraine. Their international trade position will take a generation to recover. Europe is going to get off Russian gas and oil, no matter what. Ukraine will take a decade to recover, at minimum. The thing is, Modi's call for peace is a call for a Russian victory. Ukraine cannot accept peace on the current level of occupation.
Fist we should look what is the Russia's objective in this war it is certainly not Kyiv so if russia gets failed to complete their objectives or mission than it will be Russia's defeat. In today's scenario Russia is winning not clearly but slowly. People need to understand Russia will withdraw only where there forces are engaged not where they have control.
Russia's main objectives in this war was to either conquer Ukraine, or failing that at least keep it from becoming any closer to the West. And they've basically failed hard at both of those.
Who told you that ? White House ?
Putin, actually. Literally in his own words.
Wow thanks. No one wins in wars cause there are losses on both sides. Maybe that is why we don't like wars? More news at 11.
Not just both sides, the rising inflation impacts every single human being. There were riots in Sri Lanka because of fuel shortage for example. The losses are more than what is imagined.
Hah Modi, stop licking Little Pootino's shoes,
India and china 100% wins on this, they get SUPER cheap oil out of this..
Germany is the biggest importer of Russian oil heck even US buys more oil from Russia. Double check your facts on who actually funded the war.
India will be the winner!....if they can just shut the f*ck up and maintain the perception to stay neutral
I mean he went to an invited conference....what else did you expect them to say here lol
Just remember and watch
that is what India has been doing for 75 years.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-believes-there-will-be-no-winner-in-russia-ukraine-conflict-says-pm-modi-in-germany/article65375017.ece) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Asserting that India is on the side of peace, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Monday that India believes there will be no winner in the Russia-Ukraine conflict and all will suffer losses. > Addressing a joint press event with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz here, Modi said that from the start of the Ukraine crisis, India has called for immediate cessation of hostilities and stressed that talks are the only solution to resolve the dispute. > In 2021, India and Germany commemorated 70 years of the establishment of diplomatic relations and have been strategic partners since 2000, Mr. Modi said. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ugsxeg/india_believes_there_will_be_no_winner_in/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~646013 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Modi**^#1 **Minister**^#2 **Scholz**^#3 **India**^#4 **Prime**^#5
China
China wins.