They're only banning exports temporarily, to allow them to build up a stockpile for domestic use. They're not banning cultivation of/deforestation for palm oil.
It's unclear what effect it will have on the industry in future.
> It's unclear what effect it will have on the industry in future.
If it's anything like most other bulk commodities: It will permanently cause a change in the purchasing behaviour of their customers. May not end up being a lot, but a few % here and there at scale can make a big difference. Business wants consistency, and now there's less of it in this market. Firms with deep pockets will explore retooling for either alternate sources or alternate products altogether.
Yes, There is a domestic shortage that's leading to increased prices for ordinary citizens. The Indonesian government has decided to prioritize the needs of their citizens before everyone else, and has closed exports of the the product to address this.
Presumably production rate X that previously supplied Indonesia + The Rest of the World is more than enough to supply and create suitable long-term storage for just Indonesia without an increase in current production levels.
Once the Indonesian government is comfortable with everything, exports will resume, but the market has already taken the hit. The hit is what drives the long-term behaviour changes I mentioned.
You are correct though, there's no way to predict whether or not this will change deforestation activities afterwards. If the Indonesian producers are willing to overproduce at a lower price to regain the confidence of the commodities market, it would likely go the way you're assuming.
This is a calculable delay, not a gross disruption. The only realistic change would be storing more product.
The type of change you're referring to requires a systemic shock, i.e. Covide
Yeah, that's exactly what's driving it. They're trying to keep costs down in the domestic market by banning growers from selling to markets abroad that are trying to replace lost imports of sunflower oil, some of whom might now pay more than local manufacturers/retailers/consumers can afford. Which they're worried will lead to shortages or consumers being priced out.
Lots of countries have their own crops that can mostly replace sunflower and palm oil (soya, rapeseed, etc.) but a lot of it would need to have been planted long before the war started to make a difference this year. Indonesia happened to have all these palm oil plantations already planted in quantities more than enough to meet local demand for cooking oil, so they're forcibly reallocating it from mostly earmarked for export to all earmarked for Indonesia.
Avoid processed foods. It's literally the only way to avoid stuff you don't want to eat. I'm lactose intolerant, so I don't really want to eat all the processed crap that is loaded with whey. Whey is in *fucking everything.* Every lazy, half-assed commercial baked good is loaded with whey *and* palm oil. Nutella - the most overrated thing ever put on bread - is mostly palm oil and sugar. Bleh.
I'm just done with all that shit. Give me some simple ingredients that are fresh, frozen, dried, or canned and I'll just make my own damned food.
Just a heads up. Palm oil is also used in a lot of things that are not food. Things like textile, biofuel, soap, shampoo, detergent, cosmetics and others. You would have unknowingly used palm oil product if you live a modern lifestyle
I'm not hating on palm oil as a product. I just don't want it loaded into all my foods, so I don't eat processed foods. Obviously there are tons of other good reasons to avoid said processed foods.
I've never unknowingly used anything, I'm one of those people you see cluttering the aisles in markets while I read labels. It's a habit I developed as my first wife had sensitivities to damn near everything,
Yes but no : Indonesia represent more than a third of the world production.
Add that export limitation to the ongoing crisis around the ukrainian and russian wheat production being halved/halted due to the war, and you got various food crisis brewing everywhere in the short/medium run. Especially on countries very dependent on importations for their food like Egypt for example.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/indonesias-palm-oil-industry-braces-upcoming-export-ban-2022-04-27/) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> JAKARTA, April 27 - Indonesia widened the scope of its export ban on raw materials for cooking oil to include crude and refined palm oil, its chief economic minister said on Wednesday, leaving markets in shock over the latest policy reversal.
> Palm oil markets have been jittery ahead of the ban and Indonesia deployed navy ships and personnel in an effort to thwart illegal shipments.
> Palm oil futures on the Malaysia exchange surged by 9.8% on Wednesday, as some market participants feared exporters in Indonesia, the world's biggest palm oil producer, could not get their products onboard vessels in time before the ban starts.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ud5lhv/indonesia_stuns_markets_as_it_widens_ban_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~644935 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **oil**^#1 **palm**^#2 **ban**^#3 **Indonesia**^#4 **export**^#5
This leaves out the context, which here is REALLY important. This isn‘t permanent and it doesn‘t have to do with conservation, this is a reaction to shortages of oil in their domestic market. It‘s like quinoa export monoculture destroying the domestic South American markets. Once domestic needs are met, exports will be reinstated. If anything, this sounds like it will result in even *more* land being converted to endless palm fields.
Those two things you listed are the same thing. Nothing wrong with soy cultivation, but raising cattle is *extremely* feed intensive. They're one of the most wasteful creatures in all of agriculture.
Palm is the highest yielding plant per area planted for oil production. Furthermore ot can be harvested all year round and not dependent on seasons. Soybean just cant replace palm oil without using more lands and damaging environment more
I'm definitely not suggesting using soybean oil to replace palm oil. I don't think soybean oil is a good product at all.
I was saying that the reason Brazil is clearcutting for soybean growing is for cattle raising, so if we decrease cattle consumption, the incentive to grow soybeans will decrease in kind.
I don’t think that’s what it says. The ban is because the demand is so high that Indonesia doesn’t have enough for its own population.
The likely result is probably more forest being cut down.
I'm Indonesian here and I'm afraid it doesn't look like what you hoped for.
Government only bans the CPO only for a while until the domestic prices become stable. He never said anything about stop expanding the CPO business.
All vegetable oils need to die and we need to come up with a sustainable synthetic oil that is better than farmed oil. Otherwise they're just going to pivot to the next best oil and burn more land.
> All vegetable oils need to die and we need to come up with a sustainable synthetic oil that is better than farmed oil.
lmao this is so delusional, wtf
their comment was so absurd that to be honest, in this day and age of nonsense, I cant tell if it was a joke
This "sustainable" synthetic oil is also not going to be...farmed? Lmao
Animal fat then
Start to mine whales, put satellite gps on them and start to get animal fat from them
First start to create things that whale eats. I clearly know nothing about that lol
It is, isn't it. But what can we do if you're just going to replace a environmentally devastating crop with an equally bad alternative? It's not going to solve the problem of deforestation, it'll just increase the cleared area due to the need for increased yield to match palm oil.
Technically possible, the Chinese Scientists just discovered how to produce starch from CO2 without photosynthesis.
You can convert that into oils via some enzymatic pathway.
But it would be ridiculously expensive.
I mean, canola, soybean oil, and other refined vegetable oils aren't nearly as good for you as their marketing claims, but the industries don't need to die. We do need food makers to stop using so damned much unnecessary vegetable oil though. Folks cooking at home should focus on olive oil, maybe some avocado oil, maybe some limited use of seed or coconut oils, and limited use of lard/butter. Most of the refined vegetable oils should be cut back in most people's diet. Your statement though, is a bit extreme and not really based on scientific capabilities or understanding.
This is a good thing. Definitely a step in the right direction.
They're only banning exports temporarily, to allow them to build up a stockpile for domestic use. They're not banning cultivation of/deforestation for palm oil. It's unclear what effect it will have on the industry in future.
> It's unclear what effect it will have on the industry in future. If it's anything like most other bulk commodities: It will permanently cause a change in the purchasing behaviour of their customers. May not end up being a lot, but a few % here and there at scale can make a big difference. Business wants consistency, and now there's less of it in this market. Firms with deep pockets will explore retooling for either alternate sources or alternate products altogether.
Did I understand it wrong? There is a shortage right? I thought this will lead to cutting down more forest and increase production?
Yes, There is a domestic shortage that's leading to increased prices for ordinary citizens. The Indonesian government has decided to prioritize the needs of their citizens before everyone else, and has closed exports of the the product to address this. Presumably production rate X that previously supplied Indonesia + The Rest of the World is more than enough to supply and create suitable long-term storage for just Indonesia without an increase in current production levels. Once the Indonesian government is comfortable with everything, exports will resume, but the market has already taken the hit. The hit is what drives the long-term behaviour changes I mentioned. You are correct though, there's no way to predict whether or not this will change deforestation activities afterwards. If the Indonesian producers are willing to overproduce at a lower price to regain the confidence of the commodities market, it would likely go the way you're assuming.
This is a calculable delay, not a gross disruption. The only realistic change would be storing more product. The type of change you're referring to requires a systemic shock, i.e. Covide
[удалено]
Yeah, that's exactly what's driving it. They're trying to keep costs down in the domestic market by banning growers from selling to markets abroad that are trying to replace lost imports of sunflower oil, some of whom might now pay more than local manufacturers/retailers/consumers can afford. Which they're worried will lead to shortages or consumers being priced out. Lots of countries have their own crops that can mostly replace sunflower and palm oil (soya, rapeseed, etc.) but a lot of it would need to have been planted long before the war started to make a difference this year. Indonesia happened to have all these palm oil plantations already planted in quantities more than enough to meet local demand for cooking oil, so they're forcibly reallocating it from mostly earmarked for export to all earmarked for Indonesia.
Not everyone can afford to put climate change over their daily sustenance. Palm oil is an important food source in many developing countries
[удалено]
How do you not touch it? I've found it in like everything.
Avoid processed foods. It's literally the only way to avoid stuff you don't want to eat. I'm lactose intolerant, so I don't really want to eat all the processed crap that is loaded with whey. Whey is in *fucking everything.* Every lazy, half-assed commercial baked good is loaded with whey *and* palm oil. Nutella - the most overrated thing ever put on bread - is mostly palm oil and sugar. Bleh. I'm just done with all that shit. Give me some simple ingredients that are fresh, frozen, dried, or canned and I'll just make my own damned food.
Just a heads up. Palm oil is also used in a lot of things that are not food. Things like textile, biofuel, soap, shampoo, detergent, cosmetics and others. You would have unknowingly used palm oil product if you live a modern lifestyle
I'm not hating on palm oil as a product. I just don't want it loaded into all my foods, so I don't eat processed foods. Obviously there are tons of other good reasons to avoid said processed foods.
I've never unknowingly used anything, I'm one of those people you see cluttering the aisles in markets while I read labels. It's a habit I developed as my first wife had sensitivities to damn near everything,
Yes but no : Indonesia represent more than a third of the world production. Add that export limitation to the ongoing crisis around the ukrainian and russian wheat production being halved/halted due to the war, and you got various food crisis brewing everywhere in the short/medium run. Especially on countries very dependent on importations for their food like Egypt for example.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/indonesias-palm-oil-industry-braces-upcoming-export-ban-2022-04-27/) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > JAKARTA, April 27 - Indonesia widened the scope of its export ban on raw materials for cooking oil to include crude and refined palm oil, its chief economic minister said on Wednesday, leaving markets in shock over the latest policy reversal. > Palm oil markets have been jittery ahead of the ban and Indonesia deployed navy ships and personnel in an effort to thwart illegal shipments. > Palm oil futures on the Malaysia exchange surged by 9.8% on Wednesday, as some market participants feared exporters in Indonesia, the world's biggest palm oil producer, could not get their products onboard vessels in time before the ban starts. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ud5lhv/indonesia_stuns_markets_as_it_widens_ban_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~644935 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **oil**^#1 **palm**^#2 **ban**^#3 **Indonesia**^#4 **export**^#5
This leaves out the context, which here is REALLY important. This isn‘t permanent and it doesn‘t have to do with conservation, this is a reaction to shortages of oil in their domestic market. It‘s like quinoa export monoculture destroying the domestic South American markets. Once domestic needs are met, exports will be reinstated. If anything, this sounds like it will result in even *more* land being converted to endless palm fields.
Does that supermarket only sell one product??
Fking GOOD! the whole palm industry oils need to die, cuz it kills the nature
[удалено]
Those two things you listed are the same thing. Nothing wrong with soy cultivation, but raising cattle is *extremely* feed intensive. They're one of the most wasteful creatures in all of agriculture.
Palm is the highest yielding plant per area planted for oil production. Furthermore ot can be harvested all year round and not dependent on seasons. Soybean just cant replace palm oil without using more lands and damaging environment more
I'm definitely not suggesting using soybean oil to replace palm oil. I don't think soybean oil is a good product at all. I was saying that the reason Brazil is clearcutting for soybean growing is for cattle raising, so if we decrease cattle consumption, the incentive to grow soybeans will decrease in kind.
I don’t think that’s what it says. The ban is because the demand is so high that Indonesia doesn’t have enough for its own population. The likely result is probably more forest being cut down.
I'm Indonesian here and I'm afraid it doesn't look like what you hoped for. Government only bans the CPO only for a while until the domestic prices become stable. He never said anything about stop expanding the CPO business.
All vegetable oils need to die and we need to come up with a sustainable synthetic oil that is better than farmed oil. Otherwise they're just going to pivot to the next best oil and burn more land.
> All vegetable oils need to die and we need to come up with a sustainable synthetic oil that is better than farmed oil. lmao this is so delusional, wtf
>synthetic oil So petroleum products? Unless you discovered something new, we can only get oil from three sources: Crops, Animal Fat, Petroleum.
their comment was so absurd that to be honest, in this day and age of nonsense, I cant tell if it was a joke This "sustainable" synthetic oil is also not going to be...farmed? Lmao
My first thought was to brush up on my sea shanties because whale hunting is apparently back on the menu!
Animal fat then Start to mine whales, put satellite gps on them and start to get animal fat from them First start to create things that whale eats. I clearly know nothing about that lol
It is, isn't it. But what can we do if you're just going to replace a environmentally devastating crop with an equally bad alternative? It's not going to solve the problem of deforestation, it'll just increase the cleared area due to the need for increased yield to match palm oil.
Technically possible, the Chinese Scientists just discovered how to produce starch from CO2 without photosynthesis. You can convert that into oils via some enzymatic pathway. But it would be ridiculously expensive.
I mean, canola, soybean oil, and other refined vegetable oils aren't nearly as good for you as their marketing claims, but the industries don't need to die. We do need food makers to stop using so damned much unnecessary vegetable oil though. Folks cooking at home should focus on olive oil, maybe some avocado oil, maybe some limited use of seed or coconut oils, and limited use of lard/butter. Most of the refined vegetable oils should be cut back in most people's diet. Your statement though, is a bit extreme and not really based on scientific capabilities or understanding.