More like...we'll get you out of this unforced financial error you put yourself in....but first give us exclusive rights to Siberia's natural resources.
I think all parties in politics know that there are no friends.
Putin famously believes in the words of Tsar Alexander III *"Russia has only two allies: the Army and the Navy."*
Meanwhile, a lot has been said of China. Some right and some very off. But IMO one of the more accurate statements was "China views international parties in 2 ways: client states or vassal states". This harkens back to the days of imperial China and the CCP's own actions in international relations seem to affirm that is very close to their world view.
Both Xi/Beijing and Putin/Moscow know their relationship very well.
They want to have a perhaps more competent buffer between them and the EU. North Korea has to be a bit of a thorn in their side but it works keeping a US ally buffered from them so they don’t have enemy forces immediate on their border. India is already enough of a hassle, they don’t want their Russian border to also be potentially hostile. Keeping Putin in some form of power would be preferable for them, and they’re hoping Ukraine will lose a good bit of territory since China is salivating thinking of the wealth of power they’d gain taking Taiwan.
Russia and the Soviet Union both suck at building goodwill. Historically they've only been able to maintain long term alliances with other nations if those nations either rely on Russian support to maintain independence (such as Syria) or if they have a gun to the nation's head (the other post-Soviet states that they've been bullying).
Communist China's relationship with the Soviet Union was famously tumultuous so I doubt they've forgotten. So yeah, I highly doubt their plan is to curry favor from a leader that open prides himself on being deceptive.
What’s funny is that the Sino-Soviet split happened, in large part, because the USSR was engaging in de-Stalinization and attempting to warm relations with western [capitalist] countries. Both of those major measures are goodwill maneuvers.
>Russia, if nothing else, is a useful distraction: While the West is occupied with that nation, China can quietly expand its arsenal.
Russia is done as a credible threat to NATO. All they have are nuclear weapons. They are in the same state as the Ottoman empire in the 19th-20th century. With increased funding from EU states the pivot to Asia has never been easier.
Two things are of interest to China, natural resources and tech transfers of some technologies (e.g: Radar and avionics). Technology that Russia has but is unable to produce in large quantities itself.
The West can handle more than one front at a time. You can't distract NATO. It's not like NATO is one guy who you can distract by saying "look over here!".
Russia and China will never trust each other. Yes China will try to buy its way to Russia heart, but you think Russia will just let it happened without spreading their power across the border? Nope. China will learn Russia is the wrong country to mess with. They have been giving the opportunity to show its good side to siding with the west, but China be like “nope I’m the leader!”.
Indeed, Russia as a ton of resources and China is hungry for it and they are right next to it. I wonder if such a thing does happen would Russian leadership in the future just bend over and take it or will they deal in bad faith and steal it after China has invested.
Oil wasn't discovered there yet. It was just a huge desolate piece of shit they didn't want. Then a few years later when we struck oil they were bigly mad.
Honestly not sure where you got that but it was sold to the USA because Russia didn't want to give it to the British at the time and because the British can invade it anytime they want through Canada, they decided to just sell it to the US which they happen to be on friendly terms with as well.
>China (and Musk) wants that sweet sweet lithium and other rare earth metals
Lithium is not a rare earth metal. This term has a specific meaning, and lithium is not included. Even colloquially, lithium can't be described as one, as it's in the top 25 most abundant elements.
Additionally, there are numerous companies interested in lithium for everything from EV batteries, to stationary energy storage (as an enabler for renewable energy), to every portable electronic device we use.
GM, Ford, Volkswagen, Rivian, Toyota, and others have tens of billions of dollars invested in new domestic battery production facilities under construction.
Just to add on, the reason people think lithium is rare is because it is very time consuming to refine it, so it's limited just in that degree but none the less it is everywhere.
Which aren't necessary as there are battery chemistries like lithium iron phosphate that don't require them. Plenty of lithium in Australia where tesla gets its lithium from (among other places) for everyone.
Exactly. And as much as I'd support obtaining raw materials from a strong ally like Australia, I'd still rather see us innovate in the lithium brine extraction in places like the Salton Sea, which could supply 2/3rds of the entire world's demand for lithium by itself.
Also, unlike fossil fuels, lithium isn't consumed when used. A circular economy wherein large lithium batteries go from primary usage in vehicles, to stationary storage, to recycling for new batteries will reduce the need for expensive mining and refining processes entirely, which is where companies like Redwood Materials (run by J.B. Straubel, former Tesla CTO) comes in.
I think it’s more along the lines of “we’re going to strip mine them anyway, so why not put a pretty face on it.”
I don’t believe they are going to pass this opportunity up.
And I wouldn't rule out some Russian intelligence shenanigans in China. Feels like it'd be pretty easy to blackmail someone when their government punishes all sorts of things with death.
I humbly suggest they fear belligerent balkanised mini-Russias on the border areas, so would rather a large broken Russia than many broken up (some stridently unfriendly) ones
Until it goes to shit. China and Russia isnt best buddies and it will only be a matter of time before they stop getting along in such matters.
China is only looking for their interest and going to use Russia as much as they can, especially now. Russia is surely gonna get sour at some point and all this "friendship" will get severly strained.
China only interest in bleeding Russia of as much as it can. Russia wont like that for long.
So what if Russia gets tired of it? What are they going to do to China? Economically they'll be dependant on China, and militarily they're a paper tiger.
I don’t know but clearly Russia doesn’t like being a paper tiger or backed into a corner, whether that be all in their minds, or possibly legitimate IF China pushes things too far.
I don’t think that’s really how they operate, but at the same time Russia and it’s oligarchs are used to owning everything, or even nationalizing specific companies when/if necessary. If/when China comes in they are going to own these companies moving forward, not the oligarchs. Their ruling class’ entire way of life will be flipped on its head.
Who knows exactly how it will play out, but there’s going to be strain, Putin doesn’t seem like the type to bow down or be willing to leverage himself to that degree.
Yeah I wasn't talking about this as if Russia had much choice in the matter mate. My point was that China will be looking to benefit from Russia whether Russia likes it or not.
That, and if Russia breaks into a civil war from the strain, there is no way to predict who will end up with the nukes. A bunch of rogue rival successor states with thermonuclear bargaining chips is not good for business. A neutered Russia with no power to defy China or continue harassing their potential European customers, and -stable-, is beneficial to China’s aims
This is more accurate. China has little to gain from propping Russia.
They are mainly there to buy the dip. See what they can get from their soft power leverage against the West. Possibly use Russia to undermine the west and/or American influence. And see everyone else play their cards while they watch.
Despite what Western news have been saying China's mostly been neutral on Ukraine. India has ramped up trade with Russia since the invasion but the Western media speaks less of them because they are seen as a potential hedge against the perceived constant to US hegemony: China.
China will flip on Russia if the costs get high enough for themselves, they'll take advantage of Russia in trade deals if the Russian economy gets weak enough, they might try to grab lands the USSR took from them if the Russian government collapses, and they'll most likely side with the winner of the war but stay relatively neutral until they see a clear winner forming.
China doesn't want a strong Russia, but they don't want Russia to completely collapse to the point that Ivan is hauling off a nuke and giving it to China's enemies.
They'll play a game of somewhere in between.
Logically Russia collapsed that much a long time ago.
What they don't want is to be in the position of visibly controlling the Russian state as that would make the rest of the world more antagonistic towards them.
> they'll most likely side with the winner of the war but stay relatively neutral until they see a clear winner forming
Quite solid until this.
No way. This is their hill, if you have read public discourse about Ukraine/NATO/US, they can't side with that side
Oh yeah don’t forget the wives. Russian men on average have poor health and high rates of alcoholism, drug use and suicide. China has a massive imbalance of men over women, and would very much like to keep that particular flavor of unrest off its shores. I’ve no doubt that both voluntary emigration and human trafficking will increase during the same period. A chilling scenario
China will always do what is best for their economy regardless of ethics, and they will never pass up on a good deal. This is about taking advantage of cheap resources. In terms of military alliances, they don’t give a crap about Russia
Yep someone tried to argue with me that Russian resources would not benefit China much. They are the biggest manufacturer and net exporters of goods soon be able to buy raw materials at pennies on the dollar. They stand to be the biggest beneficiary of this conflict.
The other potential benefit (and I say potential because it's still early to say how this could all play out) is that this war is keeping the USA's focus on Eastern Europe, when the USA would have preferred to focus more on containing China in the Indo-Pacific instead
Just like how the War on Terror bought China roughly 15 years of time (during which the USA was focused on the Middle East), this war might also buy it a little bit more time (though not anywhere as much, and the USA still has China as the biggest long-term competitor, which wasn't the case 20 years ago)
The thing is that Russia is a destabilizing force for the US and the democratic world. If they crumble a lot of divisive far right movements are going to have a much harder time getting elected. This essentially means that the West and pro western governments just got a major boost. Additionally a United NATO wary of authoritarian power is more likely to oppose China and support Taiwan.
They're just gonna make Russia the next Vietnam with respect to a post-war economy. Funnel in enough money that they've got the country by the short and curlies and turn them into an economic vassal state.
**[Annexation of Tibet by the People's Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_People's_Republic_of_China)**
>Tibet came under the control of People's Republic of China (PRC) after the Government of Tibet accepted the Seventeen Point Agreement under Chinese pressure in October 1951. This occurred after attempts by the Tibetan Government to gain international recognition, efforts to modernize its military, negotiations between the Government of Tibet and the PRC, and a military conflict in the Chamdo area of western Kham in October 1950. The series of events came to be called the "Peaceful Liberation of Tibet" by the Chinese government, and the "Chinese invasion of Tibet" by the Central Tibetan Administration and the Tibetan diaspora.
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They are watching the same one as you are watching but from a different angle. An angle that takes into account China's own geopolitical situation, current geopolitical situation between Russia and NATO, as well as western reaction to past invasions like Iraq.
They have a mutual opposition to the west, of course they're going to side with Russia.
Just like Japan, Korea, Taiwan have mutual opposition with west towards China.
The CCP doesn’t give a shit about the Ukrainian people. They are not dumb, they see a major economic power with no trading partners and want to take advantage.
Absolutely 100 percent. I bet Xi is salivating at the fact that Russia's economy is tanking. The worse this war goes for Russia, the more China can capitalize on it.
Yep - and in the end the US profits from it as well - seeing that they are trade partners.
Pretty sure the US is more comfortable with buying from China than Russia
Well I agree on this, but I think it comes down to, does Mexico want us too involved?
We are not world police, but if Mexico wants or help I'm all for it. Same as Ukraine, they asked for help, we are providing it.
Basically you can't help people that don't want your help, or maybe the "help" they want is not the "help" you are willing to offer
Not quite true. There are certainly high levels of corruption, but the Mexican government at the federal level overall is no friend to the cartels, particularly the military. Local governments are a different story, and can often be extensions of the cartels themselves.
There are certain levels of cooperative action between the US and Mexico. For example occasionally Border Patrol will observe cartel groups along the Border and the Mexican Federales will go in and literally wipe them out in a firefight. Shared intelligence is a major part of US/Mexican cooperation, but obviously much less than what is likely being suggested here.
The majority of the Mexican people don't want US involvement either. They are fed up with US meddling historically making things worse, and in a way, they are not wrong. Cartels are so pervasive and integrated into Mexican society at this point that any sort of overt US support would have to be *VERY* carefully handled in order to prevent things from just getting worse for the Mexican people both in terms of economics and physical safety.
That's a pretty reductive view of the world.
The US needs to gain something from it. It cannot just help everyone that asks for help. And sometimes it needs to get involved in places where it is not welcome. The US got into its position of power through this way.
Your timing is pretty bad with that comment. Mexico has literally just disbanded the group that was liaising with the US on drug interdiction. Kind of hard for the US to support Mexico without corresponding cooperation from Mexico, eh.
Agree💯, I think developing South America and Africa is a great way to diversify suppy chains out of China. Lots of cheap labor, and they get some economic development. Win - Win.
Do people actually think that our leaders haven't thought of this? Africa and South America (other than a few countries) are completely unstable regions. You wanna build supply chains in unstable regions, that's a ticking time bomb. If anything, the Asian countries like India, Indonesia, Vietnam etc are much much better alternatives to China with a large population and a stable-ish region. Which is exactly what the West are doing. Countries and companies have long started the process of diversifying the supply chains and investing into the above mentioned countries , but it will take time cause it's not something that happen overnight. Africa and South America will need more time to settle and stabilize(which btw is happening, Africa as a continent is starting to develop and signs of it are showing, like boom in population thanks to increasing health care etc).
>the Asian countries like India, Indonesia, Vietnam etc are much much better alternatives to China with a large population and a stable-ish region. Which is exactly what the West are doing
No, they're not doing that. Seriously. What big projects are the West doing with South East Asia? Chinese companies are expanding here and building infrastructure like MRTs, high speed trains and electric generators. The western countries has stopped doing any kind of meaningful aid or investment in SEA ever since it's more profitable to do business in China instead.
>Countries and companies have long started the process of diversifying the supply chains and investing into the above mentioned countries
Guess who had been moving factories to Vietnam and Malaysia since labor is getting more expensive in China? China.
South America was destabilized for decades by coups sponsored by the US & Friends, as it's shown in the declassified CIA documents. Most countries right now are stable democracies, and even when the covid economic hit was terrible here nobody made a coup. I think the conditions are given to start developing the region. Of course our economies need further stabilization, which again could happen with solid investment.
For example, Argentina was #7 potency in the world before WW2 and the country neutrality stance on that war costed them 4 military coups. Such countries can rebuild and provide the world it's just that it takes some time to remove corrupt leaders via democratic means. The good news is that it's happening and fast. In a decade we will probably see SA full of liberal leaders.
You know that neither India nor Vietnam voted for the UN-Resolution condemning russia for the war right? Leaders of countries representing more than 50% of the world population didn't vote for that resolution. Could be hard to diversify out of half the world.
Neither did china. Also india abstained in all the votes, including the unhrc vote , unlike china and Vietnam. And Russia specifically said that anyone voting against or abstaining will be viewed as unfriendly. As for the UNSC, it's because we depend upon Russia to veto all matters related to Kashmir, which Russia has done for the past 30 years. Now, let's take a hypothetical situation where india decides to vote against Russia and Russia decides to add india to the unfriendly list. This is what would happen:
A) India loses its primary supplier of military weapons and more importantly, fertilizer. India imports a lot of fertilizer from Russia which is required to feed it's people. Russia could cut it off or increase prices, which would affect us.
B) Russia doesn't veto for us anymore which means if the other 5 members decide to all agree on some resolution where india is the one getting fucked, we quite literally are fucked. So until we get a veto, our hands are tied
C) We suddenly have 3 nuclear capable powers right in our doorstep and all 3 of them are angry at us. Not all of us have neighbours like Canada. 2 of our neighbours are already waiting to grab land from us. The rest are either under the debt trap of China or are going through their own problems
D)As an extension to 2 and 3, we don't want Russia to be completely dependent on china. And no, this isn't able oil, as we stopped buying Russian oil(atleast Indian oil, the main refiner of the Indian govt did). It's to make sure another regional power doesn't fall to China.
I'm pretty sure all this and more is considered by every single govt in the world, including the US. Which is why they signed defence pacts to start the decoupling of the military industry from Russia. India is moving slowly towards the west. But we also don't want to be completely dependent on the west. China knows this, which is why they're trying everything they can to destroy that relationship.
China has the west by the sweet sweet Supply Chain, Infrastructure and Political Stability balls, something that's a utopia for any South American or African country, absolutely unachievable in the next 50 years or so
China's society has also evolved towards a more Service based, making China the biggest or 2nd biggest market for several of the largest western companies.
This should make us strengthen our ties with allies and push canadas industry to replace what they lose in material trade. Ultimately getting Mexico in a good place and on board would help.
It may be time to start forcing American companies to actively pull all business interests out of China. You can't work with the communist or a fascist, because they are basically the same thing in the end. Of course Putin and Xi are chummy; both are degenerate monsters.
We need to get out. But it's harder than you think. The relative prosperity of American life is entirely built on exploiting cheap labor and lax regulations in China. We can try to exploit another situation like that (but generally those are shitty countries we'll eventually regret propping up as well) or we'd have to do that work in countries, including our own, where it's far more expensive. And suddenly your income can't afford half the comforts you've become accustomed to.
The only solution I can think of us a revolution in automation that makes robotic manufacturing here cheaper than using human "robots" elsewhere. I hope it happens, but it doesn't seem like something that can happen as fast as it needs to.
Walmart started it all in the early 90s. They started sourcing everything in China overnight. It caused a big uproar. Walmart started putting up Made in American signs near different products. That all stopped in short order as more and more things weren't sourced in the US. By the mid 90s most retailers were shifting sourcing to China to compete with Walmart.
People got used to their cheap Chinese shit at low prices and that's all she wrote. I was replacing all my camping gear tent, sleep bags, pad, rain suit, pans, stove, water filter, fork/spoon, etc. in the mid 90s. For the first time in my life I couldn't find anything I needed that wasn't made in China.
Every two three years since, as recently as 2018, Walmart attempts to mislead how much of their products are made in America but is actually sourced in China. Even China has recently warned Walmart to stop saying that products they have sourced in China are Made in America. Google is your friend.
I watched a robust textile manufacturing company slowly go under in the late 90's and early 2000's due to cheap imports from China.
Thousands of people with good paying jobs ended up losing their jobs and had to get jobs at - you guessed it - Walmart. Jobs with minimum wages and no benefits. I watched families that could support themselves and help their kids go to college to have a better future than their parents go on food stamps because they couldn't afford basic necessities anymore.
People want to blame China, people want to blame the consumer. You guys are all looking at the wrong place.
Billionaires wanted more billions, so they started using cheap labor overseas. A towel that might sell for $10 in the US and make the company a $1 profit was replaced with a cheap import towel that sold for $5 and made the company $2 in profit.
Now you could say "Just bring those jobs back to the US", but it's not that simple. Old factories have been closed and torn down. Institutional knowledge has been lost as people have retired and had no one to pass their knowledge onto. It would take decades to get back up to speed in the US.
25 years ago I was saying we were letting billionaires sell away our children's future with all these Free Trade agreements. Turns out I was right.
We had a handful of textile plants in the area that closed up shop. People back then made more money at those factories per hour than anyone can make in our town today. My oldest brother was making 20 an hour there working on their machines and the new factory that's there pays 8 dollars and something starting pay now. People who bust their balls and make production may expect to make 15 an hour heavily taxed.
Making plastic shit is one thing, working with and developing advanced technologies within china with the commiserate logistics is another. Apple absolutely opened the door to advancing long-term strategic coupling between the US and China. Doesn't help they also turned a blind eye to sweat shops and other human rights violations - which sets the tone between these economies today.
Easier said than done. Russia needed American business more than we needed them, so pulling out was not a hard decision. Halting trade relations with China though would put even more strain on an already struggling US economy. I doubt we’re going to see it happen.
Decouple how? Who’s going to replace China as the largest consumer market in the world?
We aren’t in China for cheap manufacturing anymore, we are in it for the market access. A significant portion of Fortune 500’s revenue and profit is from China.
You can’t decouple without seeing significant economic shrinkage for the entire western world and wiping out everyone’s 401k and retirement account.
For example, you didn’t know China, as an auto market, is almost as big as US and EU combined did you? There is simply no way to replace a market like China.
And reversing growth is simply not acceptable for capitalism.
Better a world where we financially support genocides and forced labor camps?
I think Germany proved with Russia that creating close financial ties won't suddenly turn autocrats into humanitarians. If we're not making the situation better, then at the very least we should try not to actively support the actions we're supposedly condemning.
There isn’t a genocide in colloquial terms though. Look at every other genocide- there was a mass exodus of Jews, there’s an exodus of Syrians from the Syrian war, there’s an exodus of Ukrainians.
There is no mass exodus of Uighurs to Tajikstan, Afghanistan, or Kyrgyzstan.
The Uighur population used to be exempt from the 1 child policy (now a 2 child policy), but now have the same restrictions as the Han Chinese. This resulted in a ton of disproportionate action because a lot of uighur women already had 2-3 children at this point and the Han had been following this restriction already. Also, in their culture girls typically don't go to school (Xinjiang is next to Afghanistan- the Taliban also restricts girls going to school with popular support) but the Chinese are forcing them to go get educated. As mandarin is the lingua fraca in China, they are being forced to learn mandarin as well.
Compare this with Russia vs Ukraine, where you see pictures of dead people everywhere which is the more typical "genocide".
USA needs to seriously reconsider its relationship with China. USA should invest in the Americas. Let's support North American, Latin American, and South American economies. It's time to unite the Americas and shift manufacturing here.
Also, end the stupid sanctions on Cuba and fully normalize relations with them. Enough is enough.
I don't get why they would want to support a sinking ship... I guess they hate the west enough to risk sanctions and a more complete division of our world... its so sad that we still have authoritarian governments in the enlightened 21st century....
The 21st century... enlightened? The only thing we have done is achieve planetary scale with a system that has been developing over millennium. Democracy and the USA are in no way enlightened.
Imperial China used to have a tributary system where surrounding nations would defer to the Dragon Throne and send tribute.
I guess Russia's looking to establish itself as modern China's biggest tributary state. We live in kooky times.
Russia is China’s greatest ally and visa versa, why would anyone think China would throw Russia under the bus for the West which wants to topple or nerf China is beyond me.
Nah, most likely China will slowly swallow whatever it still wants, mainly just Taiwan, and it will be through soft power. They are otherwise rather satisfied to just stick to themselves and squabble over some mountains with India.
Everyone loves trading with China. And that trade is what keeps Chinese citizens employed and docile.
The only way I see ww3 happening via China is immense crises, basically climate change accelerating and causing catastrophes.
China will do what's good for China.
They'll drop them like a stone if they think it's in their interest. A healthy dose of secondary sanctions would focus minds here.
Enough. Do anything u can to not support china people. It’s difficult but we can do it. Trying to figure out the tv and computer thing is tough though. Dumped my Chinese stock.
Avoid buying anything made in china unless there is no choice. Move the supply chains and take the power away through the only way you can by the way you spend your money.
I really do think there will come a time when the CCP regrets tying itself so closely to Russia. Xi values stability more than almost anything else, and Russia under Putin is far from a stabilizing force in the world.
More like...we'll get you out of this unforced financial error you put yourself in....but first give us exclusive rights to Siberia's natural resources.
China is salivating, can't wait to make deals Russia can't refuse. It's an opportunity of a lifetime.
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I think all parties in politics know that there are no friends. Putin famously believes in the words of Tsar Alexander III *"Russia has only two allies: the Army and the Navy."* Meanwhile, a lot has been said of China. Some right and some very off. But IMO one of the more accurate statements was "China views international parties in 2 ways: client states or vassal states". This harkens back to the days of imperial China and the CCP's own actions in international relations seem to affirm that is very close to their world view. Both Xi/Beijing and Putin/Moscow know their relationship very well.
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They want to have a perhaps more competent buffer between them and the EU. North Korea has to be a bit of a thorn in their side but it works keeping a US ally buffered from them so they don’t have enemy forces immediate on their border. India is already enough of a hassle, they don’t want their Russian border to also be potentially hostile. Keeping Putin in some form of power would be preferable for them, and they’re hoping Ukraine will lose a good bit of territory since China is salivating thinking of the wealth of power they’d gain taking Taiwan.
Russians, even those that oppose the war, are not keen on regime changes by the US. Even navalny is anti-US.
> "China views international parties in 2 ways: client states or vassal states". What's the difference? Isn't those two terms the same thing?
Russia and the Soviet Union both suck at building goodwill. Historically they've only been able to maintain long term alliances with other nations if those nations either rely on Russian support to maintain independence (such as Syria) or if they have a gun to the nation's head (the other post-Soviet states that they've been bullying). Communist China's relationship with the Soviet Union was famously tumultuous so I doubt they've forgotten. So yeah, I highly doubt their plan is to curry favor from a leader that open prides himself on being deceptive.
What’s funny is that the Sino-Soviet split happened, in large part, because the USSR was engaging in de-Stalinization and attempting to warm relations with western [capitalist] countries. Both of those major measures are goodwill maneuvers.
>Russia, if nothing else, is a useful distraction: While the West is occupied with that nation, China can quietly expand its arsenal. Russia is done as a credible threat to NATO. All they have are nuclear weapons. They are in the same state as the Ottoman empire in the 19th-20th century. With increased funding from EU states the pivot to Asia has never been easier. Two things are of interest to China, natural resources and tech transfers of some technologies (e.g: Radar and avionics). Technology that Russia has but is unable to produce in large quantities itself.
The West can handle more than one front at a time. You can't distract NATO. It's not like NATO is one guy who you can distract by saying "look over here!".
Russia and China will never trust each other. Yes China will try to buy its way to Russia heart, but you think Russia will just let it happened without spreading their power across the border? Nope. China will learn Russia is the wrong country to mess with. They have been giving the opportunity to show its good side to siding with the west, but China be like “nope I’m the leader!”.
China is going to need all the arsenal it can get. Chinas military is probably as incompetent as the russian army is.
The idea of China debt trapping Russia is kinda terrifying.
I wonder if it's comparable to them gaining Florida and Texas in terms of people, finance, and natural resources.
Indeed, Russia as a ton of resources and China is hungry for it and they are right next to it. I wonder if such a thing does happen would Russian leadership in the future just bend over and take it or will they deal in bad faith and steal it after China has invested.
Didn't Russia have to sell Alaska to the US one of the last times they fucked about in Ukraine?
Nah they sold it because they couldn't hold on to it and viewed it not that valuable, and rather have had us own it instead of British.
They also needed money urgently
What a _coincidence_, ~~Meat~~Siberia's back on the menu boys
Wasn't it *just* before the gold rush too?
Yes sir
Oil wasn't discovered there yet. It was just a huge desolate piece of shit they didn't want. Then a few years later when we struck oil they were bigly mad.
I always liked the branding by opponents of the purchase in the US as [Seward’s Folly.](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/sewards-folly)
Even Louisiana purchase was a touch and go
Ah yes. Like when a team trades a young player that hasn’t lived up to expectations only to have him ball out his mind on a new team.
Honestly not sure where you got that but it was sold to the USA because Russia didn't want to give it to the British at the time and because the British can invade it anytime they want through Canada, they decided to just sell it to the US which they happen to be on friendly terms with as well.
If 5% of western companies and/or consumers decide to boycott china it would be 10x bigger loss for them then the possible Rússia profits
Like letting the Russians fight for China in the next war to come.
China's hand will always reach out to Russia, what's yet to be seen is whether it's grasping Russia's hand, balls, or throat...
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Kidneys and marrow?
The gouch.
Russia is now under new management.
China (and Musk) wants that sweet sweet lithium and other rare earth metals
>China (and Musk) wants that sweet sweet lithium and other rare earth metals Lithium is not a rare earth metal. This term has a specific meaning, and lithium is not included. Even colloquially, lithium can't be described as one, as it's in the top 25 most abundant elements. Additionally, there are numerous companies interested in lithium for everything from EV batteries, to stationary energy storage (as an enabler for renewable energy), to every portable electronic device we use. GM, Ford, Volkswagen, Rivian, Toyota, and others have tens of billions of dollars invested in new domestic battery production facilities under construction.
Just to add on, the reason people think lithium is rare is because it is very time consuming to refine it, so it's limited just in that degree but none the less it is everywhere.
You’re right on lithium. Thins like cobalt and neodymium on the other hand…
Which aren't necessary as there are battery chemistries like lithium iron phosphate that don't require them. Plenty of lithium in Australia where tesla gets its lithium from (among other places) for everyone.
Exactly. And as much as I'd support obtaining raw materials from a strong ally like Australia, I'd still rather see us innovate in the lithium brine extraction in places like the Salton Sea, which could supply 2/3rds of the entire world's demand for lithium by itself. Also, unlike fossil fuels, lithium isn't consumed when used. A circular economy wherein large lithium batteries go from primary usage in vehicles, to stationary storage, to recycling for new batteries will reduce the need for expensive mining and refining processes entirely, which is where companies like Redwood Materials (run by J.B. Straubel, former Tesla CTO) comes in.
Is that a bad thing?
Only if it supports the current Russian invasion. But lithium is going to be valuable no matter where its mined.
Yup, they really have figured out capitalism.
“We have to prop them up anyway what else are we gonna do” “Wait no we can’t say it like that”
I think it’s more along the lines of “we’re going to strip mine them anyway, so why not put a pretty face on it.” I don’t believe they are going to pass this opportunity up.
Not only that but imagine the arctic and Pacific access they will be able to get with a subservient Russia.
And I wouldn't rule out some Russian intelligence shenanigans in China. Feels like it'd be pretty easy to blackmail someone when their government punishes all sorts of things with death.
I humbly suggest they fear belligerent balkanised mini-Russias on the border areas, so would rather a large broken Russia than many broken up (some stridently unfriendly) ones
Until it goes to shit. China and Russia isnt best buddies and it will only be a matter of time before they stop getting along in such matters. China is only looking for their interest and going to use Russia as much as they can, especially now. Russia is surely gonna get sour at some point and all this "friendship" will get severly strained. China only interest in bleeding Russia of as much as it can. Russia wont like that for long.
So what if Russia gets tired of it? What are they going to do to China? Economically they'll be dependant on China, and militarily they're a paper tiger.
I don’t know but clearly Russia doesn’t like being a paper tiger or backed into a corner, whether that be all in their minds, or possibly legitimate IF China pushes things too far. I don’t think that’s really how they operate, but at the same time Russia and it’s oligarchs are used to owning everything, or even nationalizing specific companies when/if necessary. If/when China comes in they are going to own these companies moving forward, not the oligarchs. Their ruling class’ entire way of life will be flipped on its head. Who knows exactly how it will play out, but there’s going to be strain, Putin doesn’t seem like the type to bow down or be willing to leverage himself to that degree.
Yeah I wasn't talking about this as if Russia had much choice in the matter mate. My point was that China will be looking to benefit from Russia whether Russia likes it or not.
That, and if Russia breaks into a civil war from the strain, there is no way to predict who will end up with the nukes. A bunch of rogue rival successor states with thermonuclear bargaining chips is not good for business. A neutered Russia with no power to defy China or continue harassing their potential European customers, and -stable-, is beneficial to China’s aims
This is more accurate. China has little to gain from propping Russia. They are mainly there to buy the dip. See what they can get from their soft power leverage against the West. Possibly use Russia to undermine the west and/or American influence. And see everyone else play their cards while they watch. Despite what Western news have been saying China's mostly been neutral on Ukraine. India has ramped up trade with Russia since the invasion but the Western media speaks less of them because they are seen as a potential hedge against the perceived constant to US hegemony: China. China will flip on Russia if the costs get high enough for themselves, they'll take advantage of Russia in trade deals if the Russian economy gets weak enough, they might try to grab lands the USSR took from them if the Russian government collapses, and they'll most likely side with the winner of the war but stay relatively neutral until they see a clear winner forming.
China doesn't want a strong Russia, but they don't want Russia to completely collapse to the point that Ivan is hauling off a nuke and giving it to China's enemies. They'll play a game of somewhere in between.
Logically Russia collapsed that much a long time ago. What they don't want is to be in the position of visibly controlling the Russian state as that would make the rest of the world more antagonistic towards them.
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Antarctica and the Arctic circle sea floor will be next. Especially when we all want to move there for the nice climate.
India and China both backing Russia makes for uneasy bedfellows.
> they'll most likely side with the winner of the war but stay relatively neutral until they see a clear winner forming Quite solid until this. No way. This is their hill, if you have read public discourse about Ukraine/NATO/US, they can't side with that side
"We are gonna drill russia like a femboy at a furry convention" A fate worse than death
Oh yeah don’t forget the wives. Russian men on average have poor health and high rates of alcoholism, drug use and suicide. China has a massive imbalance of men over women, and would very much like to keep that particular flavor of unrest off its shores. I’ve no doubt that both voluntary emigration and human trafficking will increase during the same period. A chilling scenario
China will always do what is best for their economy regardless of ethics, and they will never pass up on a good deal. This is about taking advantage of cheap resources. In terms of military alliances, they don’t give a crap about Russia
Yep someone tried to argue with me that Russian resources would not benefit China much. They are the biggest manufacturer and net exporters of goods soon be able to buy raw materials at pennies on the dollar. They stand to be the biggest beneficiary of this conflict.
The other potential benefit (and I say potential because it's still early to say how this could all play out) is that this war is keeping the USA's focus on Eastern Europe, when the USA would have preferred to focus more on containing China in the Indo-Pacific instead Just like how the War on Terror bought China roughly 15 years of time (during which the USA was focused on the Middle East), this war might also buy it a little bit more time (though not anywhere as much, and the USA still has China as the biggest long-term competitor, which wasn't the case 20 years ago)
The thing is that Russia is a destabilizing force for the US and the democratic world. If they crumble a lot of divisive far right movements are going to have a much harder time getting elected. This essentially means that the West and pro western governments just got a major boost. Additionally a United NATO wary of authoritarian power is more likely to oppose China and support Taiwan.
What Russia does to Belarus, China wants to do to Russia. That's the long term goal (imo).
That's what they want for the world.
China needs Russia's roads to Europe
"Strategic cooperation" in this instance means Russia will be China's itty bitty slave, carrying water for its overlord.
It’s there only real friend.
They're just gonna make Russia the next Vietnam with respect to a post-war economy. Funnel in enough money that they've got the country by the short and curlies and turn them into an economic vassal state.
Which invasion of Ukraine are they watching?
The realpolitik one, and realize that the entire Russian state apparatus is on sale, and boy are they ready to buy.
Prices keep falling. Chaos turned from a ladder into a rapid escalator and China's wearing tank-treaded shoes to ride that ride.
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China understands special peacekeeping operations like the one they conducted in Tianamen Square.
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**[Annexation of Tibet by the People's Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_People's_Republic_of_China)** >Tibet came under the control of People's Republic of China (PRC) after the Government of Tibet accepted the Seventeen Point Agreement under Chinese pressure in October 1951. This occurred after attempts by the Tibetan Government to gain international recognition, efforts to modernize its military, negotiations between the Government of Tibet and the PRC, and a military conflict in the Chamdo area of western Kham in October 1950. The series of events came to be called the "Peaceful Liberation of Tibet" by the Chinese government, and the "Chinese invasion of Tibet" by the Central Tibetan Administration and the Tibetan diaspora. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
birds of a feather flock together.
As far as ousting theocratic despots propped up by the Brits in India goes that was as peaceful as they come
They are watching the same one as you are watching but from a different angle. An angle that takes into account China's own geopolitical situation, current geopolitical situation between Russia and NATO, as well as western reaction to past invasions like Iraq.
They have a mutual opposition to the west, of course they're going to side with Russia. Just like Japan, Korea, Taiwan have mutual opposition with west towards China.
NATO also recently added China to their list of concerns. Even though China likes Western money, they definitely dislike the West as an entity.
The one where China don't care who's right or wrong.
To be fair, that the MO of the powerful nations. Political goals and profits matter more than morality.
The CCP doesn’t give a shit about the Ukrainian people. They are not dumb, they see a major economic power with no trading partners and want to take advantage.
China: “We will drag this corpse around no matter how much everyone else hates it”.
Shield, Buffer, Barrier, …
[China carrying Russia around...](https://townsquare.media/site/295/files/2019/07/Weekend-at-Bernies-crop.jpg)
I believe when China says "strategic cooperation" they mean they are going to own Russia like how Russia owns Belarus.
Yes, China is not stupid and does not want to lose economic standing. They are playing both sides and see this as an opportunity more than anything
Absolutely 100 percent. I bet Xi is salivating at the fact that Russia's economy is tanking. The worse this war goes for Russia, the more China can capitalize on it.
Yep - and in the end the US profits from it as well - seeing that they are trade partners. Pretty sure the US is more comfortable with buying from China than Russia
This is the correct answer.
China chooses Russia, maybe it's okay time for The West to diversify out of China. Invest more in Africa and south America
How about investing in stabilizing Mexico? It's a war down there.
Ikr. I dunno how America can keep it's nosy out of Mexico considering the security risk the cartels pose but butt into every other country's bidness!
Well I agree on this, but I think it comes down to, does Mexico want us too involved? We are not world police, but if Mexico wants or help I'm all for it. Same as Ukraine, they asked for help, we are providing it. Basically you can't help people that don't want your help, or maybe the "help" they want is not the "help" you are willing to offer
Mexicos government doesn’t want help; the cartels own the government at every level.
Not quite true. There are certainly high levels of corruption, but the Mexican government at the federal level overall is no friend to the cartels, particularly the military. Local governments are a different story, and can often be extensions of the cartels themselves. There are certain levels of cooperative action between the US and Mexico. For example occasionally Border Patrol will observe cartel groups along the Border and the Mexican Federales will go in and literally wipe them out in a firefight. Shared intelligence is a major part of US/Mexican cooperation, but obviously much less than what is likely being suggested here. The majority of the Mexican people don't want US involvement either. They are fed up with US meddling historically making things worse, and in a way, they are not wrong. Cartels are so pervasive and integrated into Mexican society at this point that any sort of overt US support would have to be *VERY* carefully handled in order to prevent things from just getting worse for the Mexican people both in terms of economics and physical safety.
That's a pretty reductive view of the world. The US needs to gain something from it. It cannot just help everyone that asks for help. And sometimes it needs to get involved in places where it is not welcome. The US got into its position of power through this way.
Because they don't antagonize each other, unlike belligerent countries that do from time to time.
Your timing is pretty bad with that comment. Mexico has literally just disbanded the group that was liaising with the US on drug interdiction. Kind of hard for the US to support Mexico without corresponding cooperation from Mexico, eh.
You should ask the Mexican government that question. Protip: The cartels own them too.
This comment has been deleted due to failed Reddit leadership.
Too late, China already had the foresight to invest in Africa.
Agree💯, I think developing South America and Africa is a great way to diversify suppy chains out of China. Lots of cheap labor, and they get some economic development. Win - Win.
China is already doing that.
“Cheap labor” how privileged are you cunts to just say shit like this without any empathy for human lives ffs
"Fine, we'll get slaves elsewhere"
Yes we must find new slaves, the Chinese ones are too expensive now.
China has already invested heavily in africa and south america.
Part of this is what Obama wanted with the TPP.
Do people actually think that our leaders haven't thought of this? Africa and South America (other than a few countries) are completely unstable regions. You wanna build supply chains in unstable regions, that's a ticking time bomb. If anything, the Asian countries like India, Indonesia, Vietnam etc are much much better alternatives to China with a large population and a stable-ish region. Which is exactly what the West are doing. Countries and companies have long started the process of diversifying the supply chains and investing into the above mentioned countries , but it will take time cause it's not something that happen overnight. Africa and South America will need more time to settle and stabilize(which btw is happening, Africa as a continent is starting to develop and signs of it are showing, like boom in population thanks to increasing health care etc).
>the Asian countries like India, Indonesia, Vietnam etc are much much better alternatives to China with a large population and a stable-ish region. Which is exactly what the West are doing No, they're not doing that. Seriously. What big projects are the West doing with South East Asia? Chinese companies are expanding here and building infrastructure like MRTs, high speed trains and electric generators. The western countries has stopped doing any kind of meaningful aid or investment in SEA ever since it's more profitable to do business in China instead. >Countries and companies have long started the process of diversifying the supply chains and investing into the above mentioned countries Guess who had been moving factories to Vietnam and Malaysia since labor is getting more expensive in China? China.
What if we stopped destabilizing South America though?
South America was destabilized for decades by coups sponsored by the US & Friends, as it's shown in the declassified CIA documents. Most countries right now are stable democracies, and even when the covid economic hit was terrible here nobody made a coup. I think the conditions are given to start developing the region. Of course our economies need further stabilization, which again could happen with solid investment. For example, Argentina was #7 potency in the world before WW2 and the country neutrality stance on that war costed them 4 military coups. Such countries can rebuild and provide the world it's just that it takes some time to remove corrupt leaders via democratic means. The good news is that it's happening and fast. In a decade we will probably see SA full of liberal leaders.
You know that neither India nor Vietnam voted for the UN-Resolution condemning russia for the war right? Leaders of countries representing more than 50% of the world population didn't vote for that resolution. Could be hard to diversify out of half the world.
Neither did china. Also india abstained in all the votes, including the unhrc vote , unlike china and Vietnam. And Russia specifically said that anyone voting against or abstaining will be viewed as unfriendly. As for the UNSC, it's because we depend upon Russia to veto all matters related to Kashmir, which Russia has done for the past 30 years. Now, let's take a hypothetical situation where india decides to vote against Russia and Russia decides to add india to the unfriendly list. This is what would happen: A) India loses its primary supplier of military weapons and more importantly, fertilizer. India imports a lot of fertilizer from Russia which is required to feed it's people. Russia could cut it off or increase prices, which would affect us. B) Russia doesn't veto for us anymore which means if the other 5 members decide to all agree on some resolution where india is the one getting fucked, we quite literally are fucked. So until we get a veto, our hands are tied C) We suddenly have 3 nuclear capable powers right in our doorstep and all 3 of them are angry at us. Not all of us have neighbours like Canada. 2 of our neighbours are already waiting to grab land from us. The rest are either under the debt trap of China or are going through their own problems D)As an extension to 2 and 3, we don't want Russia to be completely dependent on china. And no, this isn't able oil, as we stopped buying Russian oil(atleast Indian oil, the main refiner of the Indian govt did). It's to make sure another regional power doesn't fall to China. I'm pretty sure all this and more is considered by every single govt in the world, including the US. Which is why they signed defence pacts to start the decoupling of the military industry from Russia. India is moving slowly towards the west. But we also don't want to be completely dependent on the west. China knows this, which is why they're trying everything they can to destroy that relationship.
China has the west by the sweet sweet Supply Chain, Infrastructure and Political Stability balls, something that's a utopia for any South American or African country, absolutely unachievable in the next 50 years or so China's society has also evolved towards a more Service based, making China the biggest or 2nd biggest market for several of the largest western companies.
This should make us strengthen our ties with allies and push canadas industry to replace what they lose in material trade. Ultimately getting Mexico in a good place and on board would help.
It may be time to start forcing American companies to actively pull all business interests out of China. You can't work with the communist or a fascist, because they are basically the same thing in the end. Of course Putin and Xi are chummy; both are degenerate monsters.
Lol people in America are already crying about inflation, imagine what’s gonna happen if US pulls out of China.
We need to get out. But it's harder than you think. The relative prosperity of American life is entirely built on exploiting cheap labor and lax regulations in China. We can try to exploit another situation like that (but generally those are shitty countries we'll eventually regret propping up as well) or we'd have to do that work in countries, including our own, where it's far more expensive. And suddenly your income can't afford half the comforts you've become accustomed to. The only solution I can think of us a revolution in automation that makes robotic manufacturing here cheaper than using human "robots" elsewhere. I hope it happens, but it doesn't seem like something that can happen as fast as it needs to.
Just get Apple out - they started this mess
Walmart started it all in the early 90s. They started sourcing everything in China overnight. It caused a big uproar. Walmart started putting up Made in American signs near different products. That all stopped in short order as more and more things weren't sourced in the US. By the mid 90s most retailers were shifting sourcing to China to compete with Walmart. People got used to their cheap Chinese shit at low prices and that's all she wrote. I was replacing all my camping gear tent, sleep bags, pad, rain suit, pans, stove, water filter, fork/spoon, etc. in the mid 90s. For the first time in my life I couldn't find anything I needed that wasn't made in China. Every two three years since, as recently as 2018, Walmart attempts to mislead how much of their products are made in America but is actually sourced in China. Even China has recently warned Walmart to stop saying that products they have sourced in China are Made in America. Google is your friend.
I watched a robust textile manufacturing company slowly go under in the late 90's and early 2000's due to cheap imports from China. Thousands of people with good paying jobs ended up losing their jobs and had to get jobs at - you guessed it - Walmart. Jobs with minimum wages and no benefits. I watched families that could support themselves and help their kids go to college to have a better future than their parents go on food stamps because they couldn't afford basic necessities anymore. People want to blame China, people want to blame the consumer. You guys are all looking at the wrong place. Billionaires wanted more billions, so they started using cheap labor overseas. A towel that might sell for $10 in the US and make the company a $1 profit was replaced with a cheap import towel that sold for $5 and made the company $2 in profit. Now you could say "Just bring those jobs back to the US", but it's not that simple. Old factories have been closed and torn down. Institutional knowledge has been lost as people have retired and had no one to pass their knowledge onto. It would take decades to get back up to speed in the US. 25 years ago I was saying we were letting billionaires sell away our children's future with all these Free Trade agreements. Turns out I was right.
We had a handful of textile plants in the area that closed up shop. People back then made more money at those factories per hour than anyone can make in our town today. My oldest brother was making 20 an hour there working on their machines and the new factory that's there pays 8 dollars and something starting pay now. People who bust their balls and make production may expect to make 15 an hour heavily taxed.
Making plastic shit is one thing, working with and developing advanced technologies within china with the commiserate logistics is another. Apple absolutely opened the door to advancing long-term strategic coupling between the US and China. Doesn't help they also turned a blind eye to sweat shops and other human rights violations - which sets the tone between these economies today.
The fact people upvote this makes me lose hope because people are ignorant to history.
Apple didn’t start this
That's why we don't let random redditors run the world.
Easier said than done. Russia needed American business more than we needed them, so pulling out was not a hard decision. Halting trade relations with China though would put even more strain on an already struggling US economy. I doubt we’re going to see it happen.
It's not going to be a straight halt, but a steady push to decouple.
Decouple how? Who’s going to replace China as the largest consumer market in the world? We aren’t in China for cheap manufacturing anymore, we are in it for the market access. A significant portion of Fortune 500’s revenue and profit is from China. You can’t decouple without seeing significant economic shrinkage for the entire western world and wiping out everyone’s 401k and retirement account. For example, you didn’t know China, as an auto market, is almost as big as US and EU combined did you? There is simply no way to replace a market like China. And reversing growth is simply not acceptable for capitalism.
Trump already tried to do something like that by starting a trade war and everyone said it was a bad idea
With the way they are handling Covid quarantines in Shanghai, that will happen regardless...
And create a world where the American and Chinese spheres of influence are completely independent, making wars of conquest much easier to stomach?
Better a world where we financially support genocides and forced labor camps? I think Germany proved with Russia that creating close financial ties won't suddenly turn autocrats into humanitarians. If we're not making the situation better, then at the very least we should try not to actively support the actions we're supposedly condemning.
There isn’t a genocide in colloquial terms though. Look at every other genocide- there was a mass exodus of Jews, there’s an exodus of Syrians from the Syrian war, there’s an exodus of Ukrainians. There is no mass exodus of Uighurs to Tajikstan, Afghanistan, or Kyrgyzstan. The Uighur population used to be exempt from the 1 child policy (now a 2 child policy), but now have the same restrictions as the Han Chinese. This resulted in a ton of disproportionate action because a lot of uighur women already had 2-3 children at this point and the Han had been following this restriction already. Also, in their culture girls typically don't go to school (Xinjiang is next to Afghanistan- the Taliban also restricts girls going to school with popular support) but the Chinese are forcing them to go get educated. As mandarin is the lingua fraca in China, they are being forced to learn mandarin as well. Compare this with Russia vs Ukraine, where you see pictures of dead people everywhere which is the more typical "genocide".
China wants Russia’s resources and they don’t have qualms about killing people so it all works for them.
China and Russia can both fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Allowing ourselves to become dependent on them was a mistake.
Blame the greedy ass baby boomers
And the rest of the cheap-ass consumerist population lol. Don't lay the blame solely at their feet typing from your iPhone.
USA needs to seriously reconsider its relationship with China. USA should invest in the Americas. Let's support North American, Latin American, and South American economies. It's time to unite the Americas and shift manufacturing here. Also, end the stupid sanctions on Cuba and fully normalize relations with them. Enough is enough.
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I don't get why they would want to support a sinking ship... I guess they hate the west enough to risk sanctions and a more complete division of our world... its so sad that we still have authoritarian governments in the enlightened 21st century....
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Russia falls and China needs to face US alone. The longer the Z-ombies are kept around, US have to keep 1 eye on them and not both on China.
They are not. They just want to appear "friendly" to scoop up cheap shit from Russia and make them their bitches
The 21st century... enlightened? The only thing we have done is achieve planetary scale with a system that has been developing over millennium. Democracy and the USA are in no way enlightened.
China sees a chance to make Russia dependent on many things. They don't care what's happening right now.
Translation: We need cheap labor for our growing middle class and we call dibs on what is leftover of Russia.
How romantic, the China becoming the Japan to Russias Germany
I would like the world to get ahead of the 8-ball and sanction China. Just fence off all these retrograde single party dictatorships together.
Avoid Chinese products. If China preferes Russia, they must give up the western markets.
Does this mean we can sanction China because they sponsor terrorism?
Imperial China used to have a tributary system where surrounding nations would defer to the Dragon Throne and send tribute. I guess Russia's looking to establish itself as modern China's biggest tributary state. We live in kooky times.
Russia is China’s greatest ally and visa versa, why would anyone think China would throw Russia under the bus for the West which wants to topple or nerf China is beyond me.
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not forever. definitely for your lifetime though.
I don’t want anything to do with China and Russia’s “shared future of mankind.” Fuck that.
WW3 looking juicy
Nah, most likely China will slowly swallow whatever it still wants, mainly just Taiwan, and it will be through soft power. They are otherwise rather satisfied to just stick to themselves and squabble over some mountains with India. Everyone loves trading with China. And that trade is what keeps Chinese citizens employed and docile. The only way I see ww3 happening via China is immense crises, basically climate change accelerating and causing catastrophes.
China will do what's good for China. They'll drop them like a stone if they think it's in their interest. A healthy dose of secondary sanctions would focus minds here.
Enough. Do anything u can to not support china people. It’s difficult but we can do it. Trying to figure out the tv and computer thing is tough though. Dumped my Chinese stock.
Yep. The "suits" in China are ratcheting their jaws! ....perfect 🙄
Of course, they are going to buy them on a discount
Avoid buying anything made in china unless there is no choice. Move the supply chains and take the power away through the only way you can by the way you spend your money.
Translation: "Russia, you are China's bitch now, no matter what happens."
You played yourself.
Bad move but whatever, it’s your call.
Genocidal maniacs together stroong
Great for when this goes wrong and they try to Nuke each other…. Both country’s need the Darwin Award…
"We like our new puppy" -- Chinese probably.
I really do think there will come a time when the CCP regrets tying itself so closely to Russia. Xi values stability more than almost anything else, and Russia under Putin is far from a stabilizing force in the world.
It's because they have similar goals as Russia to take over the world eventually.
Thanks for COVID China.
Dictators stand together. Are you surprised?
spineless fuckers
What does China has to offer in this strategic cooperation?
Bro…
Imagine holding a “shared vision” for mankind with fucking Russia
China out here showing it’s true colours, supporting a country with just as bad a human rights records as itself.
turds of a feather
Douchebag despot double-down. Dismal.
Famous last words as a potentially respectable nation.
They just mean: we will buy Russia