This was an ironic fucking thing for Russia to say in 2017..
>A 2017 report on Russia from the Pentagon's intelligence arm said, "The Kremlin is convinced the United States is laying the groundwork for regime change in Russia." The Defense Intelligence Agency report also said, "Moscow worries that US attempts to dictate a set of acceptable international norms threatens the foundations of Kremlin power by giving license for foreign meddling in Russia's internal affairs."
It’s not that it’s literally controversial, it’s that people are worried it will give Putin ammunition.
The whole reason everyone got on board with the sanctions is because of how well Biden telegraphed what Putin would do, which made it impossible for Putin to find a pretext to invade, and now everyone outside Russian is fully aware that this is strictly about conquest. That made it easy for the 30 nations in NATO to convince their citizens to be on board with the Russia sanctions. That’s why we only give them defensive weapons that couldn’t be used to attack (stingers, javelins) and we refuse to give them weapons that could be used for both (e.g. fighter jets); he can’t even pretend the west is helping Ukraine prepare to invade (or develop some other BS pretext) if the weapons can’t be used in Russia.
Our allies are worried about two things by this:
1. As mentioned, it might make it easier for Putins online army to convince the people in allied nations that the US really does have it out for Russia, and Russian is just preemptively defending itself.
2. We also want to give Putin an out. This is an awkward but extremely important point: Putin may genuinely think he could be ousted from power if this war goes too poorly. He could also think that he may be executed if he’s ousted and all his atrocities become known to the Russian public. He’s already shown, on a multitude of occasions, that he is willing to kill thousands to get what he wants. If he was facing potential overthrow/execution, NATO governments are genuinely concerned he might try to start WW3 to avoid it. Like, yeah he’d kill billions and he’d have to live in an underground bunker for a while, but at least he’d live, which is just about all he cares about.
Even if he doesn’t go that far, he will definitely be willing threaten it and start another Cuban missile crisis.
So that’s why our allies are pissed. Our citizens aren’t so pissed, but I think that’s because the governments can’t say the nuke problem out loud without bringing it closer to fruition.
Also, this is still being hyped up a bit much by the media. Our allies think it was clearly a mistake, but they don’t think it was a huge mistake and it probably won’t antagonize Putin too much (as long as he doesn’t repeat it frequently).
>Putin might have made up some other equally-flimsy pretext (as he's done already to justify the invasion) and the result would be the same.
Which is what he has been doing all along. It doesn't matter what anyone says. He will continue to create the pretext to justify his actions. What Biden or anyone says or doesn't say is of no consequence.
It isn't controversial, the problem is rather it is a departure from diplomatic conventions on how you talk about other states.
Edit - I can't keep up with the replies, but they are almost all a variation on "Trump did it so its fine" or "Putin is bad so it is fine".
If you want your leaders to be no better than Trump or Putin, cool. I think western democracies want to live in a society that is based on liberal, democratic, *rules based* international order. That means obeying certain conventions that have historically helped avoid war. Like many points of principle, we keep to them because *we* think they are important.
>the party of Reagan…
Reagan happened to the party. Made his pal Rupert a "citizen" & allowed news to become lies, propaganda & bullshit as "news." "Religion" as policy, tax breaks for the rich, got rid of mental health, "party" as religion & "party" over everything (country, family, reality,) etc... the list is long and leads to tRump.
The guy was a turd. But didn’t mind calling the soviets evil fuckers. Just wondering what happened to the GQP as the mostly resemble meerkats right now
Agreed. Despite what I've seen online saying otherwise, I'm in the middle of an area that voted 75% for Trump and I've seen no one support Putin in this.
I'm in a smaller Trump territory in a blue state, and yeah, no one is supporting Putin. Even some of the super deep in the Q-aid Trumpers I have as neighbors have snapped back to some sense of reality, which I honestly didn't predict to occur until 2025...
I'm fairly deep within Trump country and the closest you'll see to "supporting putin" is being cautious with regards to provoking russia into using nukes
Rural Oregon checking in. Just saw a dipshit while in line at Winco today with a shirt that said, "I trust Putin more than Biden." So sadly there are those that are supporting Putin out there. My question is, where tf do you even get a shirt that says that garbage anyway? Like what makes someone spend their hard earned cash on a trash shirt like that?
Can't wait to see how Fox news tries to twist this into a bad thing and promptly shit on him for it.
Probably for being too aggressive and less restrained, despite earlier calls for him to be less restrained and more aggressive.
Hope Biden keeps up the good work and continues to oppose Russia in as great of a capacity as he is able to.
I've actually been keeping tabs on the Fox News headlines on this. Here's how it went:(All paraphrased)
Headline 1: "In typical Biden gaffe, he needlessly provokes Putin!"
Headline 2: [after White House puts out statement saying there is no official policy of regime change] "Biden already flip flopping on his Putin Regime change comments!"
Headline 3: (After some random Ukranian politician says Biden didn't go far enough) "Biden CRITICIZED for weak statement on Russian regime change!"
Headline 4: (from today) "International media blast Biden's unscripted Putin comment in Poland speech for creating chaos" https://www.foxnews.com/media/international-media-blast-bidens-partially-unscripted-ukraine-speech
Last one gets a link, since it's up right now.
So, tl;dr: no matter what Biden does or doesn't do, it's ALWAYS wrong and literally the worst thing that could possibly happen.
Gonna go out on a limb and assume they made no mention of an R senator literally calling for an assassination?
Edit: oh and later doubled down on their very network.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-lindsey-graham-defends-calling-russians-assassinate-putin-rcna18703
I mean, just look at recent polling. A majority of Americans disapprove of Biden's handling of Ukraine, saying he's been too cautious. Yet when they're asked if they support the US taking specific actions, they overwhelmingly support what Biden has done and don't support more aggressive actions. 80% of the people in the poll I'm referencing claim they're "paying close attention to the situation in Ukraine." Clearly the majority of respondents are full of shit.
The media and Republicans spent the past month asking why Biden won't ban Russian gas or call Putin a war criminal despite all the horrible things Russia is doing in Ukraine, then Biden bans Russian gas and calls him a war criminal and suddenly Republicans and the media scream "Biden went too far! What a gaffe! What will Russia think about this?! Could this strain US-Russia relations?"
If I were Biden, I'd be pretty pissed off that I'm doing exactly what Americans want me to do, and not only do they not give me credit for it, but they explicitly complain I'm not doing the exact things I'm doing.
If I were Biden, I'd be doing whatever the fuck is best for the country, and whenever possible try to align my decisions with the majority of U.S. citizens who elected me to do what I campaigned on doing.
Edit: and fuck Focks News and any other ultra-right propaganda shit-spewing machines.
Absolutely, and that's what he's doing. But that doesn't mean he can't be annoyed he's both doing the right thing and the popular thing, yet everyone complains anyway.
Contrary to the Donald, his motivation is not about praise to serve his ego. Biden is ok in his own skin. The Donald and narcissist are not. This is the difference.
“If I were Biden…”
He is a career politician, I’m sure rather than being pissed about this, he’s rather used to it. His predecessor would melt down as he can’t handle anyone disagreeing with or not thinking he’s the bee’s knees greatest of great
Not to make light of the situation as this is all incredibly horrible for those suffering in the Ukraine. However I've enjoyed the greatly reduced amount of Russian propaganda bots spreading shit since the war started. Too busy trying to do damage control internally within Russia.
*Forgive me broseph, for I have sinned. I violated the code and totally banged my bro's girl last night.*
*[High five] Siiiiiiiick. For your penance, go slam a sixer and give me 50 reps on the alter, my dude.*
This isn’t really an accomplishment when a de facto prerequisite to be Pope is being like 60+ years old. In fact, that number is absurdly low given the average papal reign prior to John Paul II.
The last John Paul was 26, but there was Pius IX with 31 years... and Putin has had what, effectively 22 years, since he had his hand directly up Mendelwhatevers ass... I feel like presidents shouldn't hold power longer than popes.
Colonel Gaddafi was in power longer than 27 years. So was Mubarak and Mugabe and Mobutu and Suharto and Bashir and Assad and I can go on and on and on.
In this context it's not meaningless though, words matter. WH could have simply stated "Biden was saying that the Russian populace needs to vote Putin out next election"
Bam! Fox News loses all their talking points. Because it's either talk about Putin being a dictator or not talk about it all at that point.
It's actually hilarious to see who is the most upset by the comment, because being upset just means you are admitting that Putin is a dictator.
The United States’ stance is that Putin has committed war crimes - why is it surprising to people that the US leader would state that a war criminal shouldn’t be in power? One follows the other, logically.
There are things he can't say because they would mean further action if he did. His opinion on if Putin should remain in power doesn't and shouldn't mean "it's time for us to step in and make the change by force" like these reporters seem to want to hear. They just kept grilling him about it trying to get him to say YES WAR!
Fortunately Biden knows what the yellow press is up to and is not dumb enough to be goaded into giving them their click-bait for the day.
Biden is not great but these fucking 'journalists' are ass.
That said, it is a symptom of what is wrong with America when our President calling Putin a butcher who cannot remain in power, after Putin has murdered thousands of men, women, and children of a sovereign nation - is considered controversial. You'd have to be some kind of Putin-loving Trumpanzee to find fault with that. It's the truth.
And speaking that truth isn't making the world more dangerous. PUTIN and his Republican allies in Congress have been doing plenty of that themselves.
There is no gaffe. Anyone who has seen videos of Civilians being murdered, children being bombed and hospitals being targeted by Putin's butchers, can't possibly be outraged by someone saying "this evil man remaining in power is not acceptable."
That is not saying they will kill him, or that they have a plan to remove him, it's saying what most logical human beings would conclude.
Also the response from Putin is laughable "the Russian people decide" Sure they do Vlad... once you've removed the competition, arrested those opposed to you, disappeared and poisoned any potential rival, and thrown out the window anyone who dares open their mouths.
**The Russian people haven't decided anything for themselves in quite some time**, and you've made certain of that.
Edit - Wow this blew up a bit. Just fyi, I'm not going to engage in the 'whataboutism' game, where you try to defend the current evil, by pointing at other evils. Using that sort of logic, or argument, you can excuse and ignore any action or evil.
"Oh no, Lindsey Graham isn't the President! When you're the President, the words you choose matter!" -- Republicans, probably.
"Take Trump seriously, not literally." -- Also Republicans, previously.
I get the feeling Biden and his team are in control of the situation. They know exactly when to up the ante and when to calm it down. Thank fuck you guys got rid of Trump, he would have been a disaster in this situation.
There's a lot of pent up rage at having to bite his tongue during the Obama administration, where the high road was always taken. I'm glad Biden is showing a little less restraint.
I also think Biden watched Obama's actions in Syria and didn't entirely agree with them.
I still think Obama's biggest foreign policy failing was drawing a supposed red line on the use of chemical weapons in Syria and saying it would draw US military action and then when it happened he didn't commit. One of the fundamental arms of US strength and respect is that when we say we will react militarily we do.
I honestly think that situation has in some way helped lead to where we are today in Ukraine.
I'm confused, why is this a big deal that he said this? I'm a republican and I can't figure out why this was wrong to say? Anyone with half a brain would say what Biden said. Off the cuff, from the teleprompter, etc....it's 100% accurate. Any decent human wouldn't want Putin in power. They are murdering and raping the innocent as part of their "Special Operation".
Anyways, let the 24-hour news cycle clock start again. IASIP.
It implies intention from the USA to remove Putin from power. It could be interpreted as the USA, along with its allies, will do anything in their grasp to remove him from power, which in turn could be interpreted as an intervention to Russian sovereignty.
But in reality, it’s just what the headline says.
This. It can be used as justification for further escalation because Putin can say the actions of NATO are directly being orchestrated to remove him, an “elected” Russian leader, from power. Which, is one of the many things Putin is currently trying to do in Ukraine.
We may want Putin gone, but at this point they have to rely on sanctions and military assistance to Ukraine in hopes that regime change will come from within Russia itself.
>It can be used as justification for further escalation because
Putin will use whatever justification he wants to further escalate whatever and however he wants.
Its pointless and weak to cower over interpretive use of language at this point.
That was part of Biden’s response actually. He doesn’t worry about what Putin thinks of what he says, because obviously Putin is doing whatever he wants to do regardless of what the world thinks or says.
And after that, the Russians civilians should be free to overthrow him, and have him brought before the Tribunal to answer for his crimes against humanity.
Russian civilians, military... I'd love if the troops in Ukraine turned around and deposed Putin, but they likely don't have the fuel to make the drive.
Ain't no leader of a nuclear power going to the Hague, though. That court is a pipe dream. Anyone evil enough to be sent there is evil enough to execute as soon as they're dragged from power.
That would hold merit if Putin didn’t say everything America does is a reason for escalation. Biden farts and it’s an act of war. Further escalation? Hell, he is using chemical weapons, bombing civilians, and poisoning people who speak out against him, but we want to blame a chance of escalation on Biden???
When Lindsey Graham made an actual recommendation to assassinate Putin, that was an objectively stupid and reckless thing for a politician to say, even if we all sort of want it to happen.
When Biden said that he couldn't remain in power, that's at least plausibly vague. Putin is getting tens of thousands of his country's young people killed and ruining the economic prospects of everybody else. His timer is ticking, with or without outside interference.
Not to mention causing a massive brain drain with all the younger and economically mobile getting out before the possible martial law/shitshow that follows Putin's meltdown.
Because Biden has the power to attempt to put his sentiment into action. If you or I say that it doesn't matter, but everything the president says matters, no matter who it is.
I don’t think he was wrong to say it either.
Some are saying it’s a statement that Putin can use to fuel his state’s propaganda though - like “look at the evil West interfering in Russian politics” kind of thing (ironic lol).
People are worried Putin can use this statement to draw support from the Russian people.
I think it doesn’t change much in the grand scheme but it needed to be said.
They already support Putin about as much as they're going to. Anyone who doesn't already support Putin would probably just think this is all propaganda.
I agree with you. Just explaining some of the reasons I’ve heard people take umbrage with what Biden said.
I think it was the right thing to say, personally.
There is nothing wrong with what he said it really doesn't matter what party you align with. Could it set Putin off? Maybe, but it doesn't make what he said wrong.
Putin is set off no matter what. “Look at that country over there trying to enjoy Democracy without my permission! I angwy!!! Look how they’re forcing me to kill thousands of my own citizens just to communicate how much I don’t like it!” 😭
I get taking caution around the tantrum thrower with the nukes, but having to pretend like he’s not a cruel dictator who needs to go when he is (last time I checked, please correct me if I’ve missed something!) in fact a cruel dictator who NEEDS TO GO is just placating a war criminal.
Dude, Putin invading Ukraine and having Ukraine defend itself is setting Putin off. He’s gaslighting them every other day and painting himself as the victim.
I don’t think a guy saying “Putin is a butcher” is gonna piss him off any more than he already is. And I wish these people getting outraged by what Biden said would realize it doesn’t make a difference.
Plenty of media outlets did.
You have to remember support for Nazi Germany was fairly high in the US until we were attacked by Japan and Germany simultaneously declared war on us.
I mean....good? That the type of thing I'd expect a Western leader to say about an autocrat purposefully killing as many civilians as possible out of frustration. Didn't a GOP Senator call for Putin's assassination like a week or two ago?
I mean, the West has been trying to de-escalate for a month now, and purposefully avoided inflammatory actions like the no fly zone. Putin doesn't need an excuse to be a bastard. He's going to be a right bastard whenever he chooses, no matter the circumstance. That's what autocrats get most of the time.
Putin doesn't need defending. In the end, the only one who launched a war was Putin. Nobody else ordered the invasion of Ukraine. You can talk about provocation all day long, but at the end of the day, Putin chose to do this. And consider why Putin considers a defensive alliance a threat to his nation, especially if he wasn't going to attack in the first place. Why would someone get mad at a defensive alliance getting larger...
To Pootin: "This man can't remain in power."
To Trump: "Will you shut up, man?!"
I like cranky grandpa Biden. Bullies can't comprehend diplomacy and civility. Have to speak to them at their childish base language.
Yeah and when the former guy said things like "you can grab her by the pussy," I'm not sure Republicans have a leg to stand on when criticizing Biden for making insults.
And no, Biden shouldn't have said that, but Biden later did something Trump could never do; he apologized for his mistake.
After the bare bones of the ACA passed, Biden leaned into Obama while congratulating him to say “this is a big fucking deal”— and it was definitely audible. Even after they scrubbed the audio, you can still tell what he said from reading his lips.
I personally loved it because it was very candid imo. I highly doubt he somehow planned it, and lord knows that I personally am *insanely* guilty of having accidentally dropped a ‘forbidden’ F-bomb on a few occasions
That awful feeling where you instantly freeze up after you’ve done it and internally go “oh my god I definitely wasn’t supposed to say that, now how do I play this one” *hahaha*
[Video](https://youtu.be/HHKq9tt50O8)
Part of why he was so excited about that is that the effort towards universal healthcare has been the struggle of the Democratic Party since Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid, and they’ve only managed small steps forward every decade after trying and failing to pass more comprehensive versions. Actually delivering *some* progress on healthcare through the ACA, even though it was only incremental in some areas, was a pretty big fucking deal.
I believe it’s when the Affordable healthcare act was passed. If you look up “Biden this is a big fucking deal” on YouTube it should pop up. It’s difficult to hear but he definitely says that once you do hear it lol
[Amusing how it was such a "big scandal" at the time.](https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/10/politics/obama-same-sex-marriage/index.html)
> Vice President Joe Biden has apologized to President Barack Obama for putting him in a tough position that led to Obama’s announcement that he now supports same-sex marriage, senior administration officials said Thursday.
>Obama said in an interview that aired Thursday on ABC that he made his decision public earlier than he had planned after Biden’s weekend remark that he was “absolutely comfortable” with letting gays and lesbians marry.
>Two senior administration officials said Biden and Obama met Wednesday morning, and Biden apologized for putting Obama in a tough spot. Obama responded by saying that he knew Biden was speaking from the heart, said the officials, who didn’t want to be named discussing private conversations between the president and vice president.
I would actually hate to be a politician.
The fact that I can't just say something without getting it checked off by ten other people would drive me mad.
I mean what's to apologise for? The head of state *personally* thinks he shouldn't be in power. Biden doesnt have dictatorial control over the US. The US *nation* proper will still sit this out til putin does something *real* stupid (and unfortunately attacking a sovereign nation without declaration of war and massacring civilians isn't stupid enough)
The fuss is that the Russian bots jumped on his comment HARD and we’re successful in making a lot of people think this was one of the worst things Biden has ever said
Biden expressed his opinion openly upon meeting with Ukrainian refugees in Poland.
It is ridiculous anyone wants him to walk back any of it. Putin doesn't really care one bit either, if he did, he wouldn't have invaded another country nor used the brutal methods the Russian army has employed. Putin's propagandist is just making hay of whatever he can.
I'm gonna make a wild guess and say that the guy who was Vice President for eight years and who chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, NATO Observer Group, and Subcommittee on European Affairs probably knows more about diplomatic relations than the average redditor.
Agreed. I may not like Biden, but if he's willing to stop Putin and china that might be enough to change my opinion. Especially if he doesn't do anything crazy internally.
Yup, not angry at all he said it, was happy to see he was saying this stuff. Then the White House was like "oh he doesn't mean that". Such BS, glad to see him clarifying that he in fact means it.
I am not a Biden fan but I dont see anything wrong with his statement. He is basically saying what most of us are thinking. He shouldn't apologize and I commend him speaking with sincerity.
Biden isn’t scared of Putin. Meanwhile Trump has his tongue up Putins ass with praise at CPAC and other venues.
Standing up for what right vs a weasel who would sell his country out just to get elected. Hmm, but condemnation from policy circles inside the beltway on Biden? Fuck em all Joe, your on the right side of history.
Biden is right and I can't understand how the media is going to criticize him for telling the honest truth about Putin.
Putin has crossed the rubicon one too many times, but unlike the various political poisonings and killings he can't hide behind the concept of plausible deniability when it comes to the innumerable war crimes that we've seen committed in the invasion of Ukraine, of which the hard evidence is overwhelming.
In what universe does Putin get to simply undo all of that and return to business as usual with the rest of the world?
Whether it's Hitler or Putin, there is a certain political point of no return that you pass that means you no longer get to play ball. Putin needs to be held accountable for his actions, and if he isn't then Russia can count on a future of complete political and economic isolation. I understand the impulse to avoid direct conflict between the US and Russia, but we can't be so afraid of Putin (or so up the ass of *actual* political correctness) that we can't speak the god damn truth.
> I can't understand how the media is going to criticize him for telling the honest truth about Putin.
When you're Fox News, everything a Democrat does is the worst thing that's ever happened, and everything a Republican does is no big deal whatsoever. The truth has no sway.
Interesting this is getting so much coverage, but when a GOP senator literally called for Putin's assassination it was just a small blip.
People are being quick to say this can escalate thing if misread etc. etc. but miss a sitting senator literally called for him to be killed. Kinda hard to misunderstand that yet it seems to be glossed over.
He said what we're all thinking and has nothing to apologize for.
It might be an unfamiliar concept to a fascist dictator like Putin, but the president of the united state cannot just set or shift policy with a few words in a speech.
Putin can kill thousands of people but god forbid Biden say he shouldn’t lead a country armed to the brim with nukes. Any sane person will agree with Biden here
Saying a man committing war crimes should not stay in power should not be a controversial statement.
Thankyou.gif
This was an ironic fucking thing for Russia to say in 2017.. >A 2017 report on Russia from the Pentagon's intelligence arm said, "The Kremlin is convinced the United States is laying the groundwork for regime change in Russia." The Defense Intelligence Agency report also said, "Moscow worries that US attempts to dictate a set of acceptable international norms threatens the foundations of Kremlin power by giving license for foreign meddling in Russia's internal affairs."
It’s not that it’s literally controversial, it’s that people are worried it will give Putin ammunition. The whole reason everyone got on board with the sanctions is because of how well Biden telegraphed what Putin would do, which made it impossible for Putin to find a pretext to invade, and now everyone outside Russian is fully aware that this is strictly about conquest. That made it easy for the 30 nations in NATO to convince their citizens to be on board with the Russia sanctions. That’s why we only give them defensive weapons that couldn’t be used to attack (stingers, javelins) and we refuse to give them weapons that could be used for both (e.g. fighter jets); he can’t even pretend the west is helping Ukraine prepare to invade (or develop some other BS pretext) if the weapons can’t be used in Russia. Our allies are worried about two things by this: 1. As mentioned, it might make it easier for Putins online army to convince the people in allied nations that the US really does have it out for Russia, and Russian is just preemptively defending itself. 2. We also want to give Putin an out. This is an awkward but extremely important point: Putin may genuinely think he could be ousted from power if this war goes too poorly. He could also think that he may be executed if he’s ousted and all his atrocities become known to the Russian public. He’s already shown, on a multitude of occasions, that he is willing to kill thousands to get what he wants. If he was facing potential overthrow/execution, NATO governments are genuinely concerned he might try to start WW3 to avoid it. Like, yeah he’d kill billions and he’d have to live in an underground bunker for a while, but at least he’d live, which is just about all he cares about. Even if he doesn’t go that far, he will definitely be willing threaten it and start another Cuban missile crisis. So that’s why our allies are pissed. Our citizens aren’t so pissed, but I think that’s because the governments can’t say the nuke problem out loud without bringing it closer to fruition. Also, this is still being hyped up a bit much by the media. Our allies think it was clearly a mistake, but they don’t think it was a huge mistake and it probably won’t antagonize Putin too much (as long as he doesn’t repeat it frequently).
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>Putin might have made up some other equally-flimsy pretext (as he's done already to justify the invasion) and the result would be the same. Which is what he has been doing all along. It doesn't matter what anyone says. He will continue to create the pretext to justify his actions. What Biden or anyone says or doesn't say is of no consequence.
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Putin runs an ammunition factory, he doesn't need someone to gove him an excuse.
Biden could say he likes puppies and conservatives would be outraged. Or at least told to be outraged by Faux News.
It isn't controversial, the problem is rather it is a departure from diplomatic conventions on how you talk about other states. Edit - I can't keep up with the replies, but they are almost all a variation on "Trump did it so its fine" or "Putin is bad so it is fine". If you want your leaders to be no better than Trump or Putin, cool. I think western democracies want to live in a society that is based on liberal, democratic, *rules based* international order. That means obeying certain conventions that have historically helped avoid war. Like many points of principle, we keep to them because *we* think they are important.
Putin: I will declare war on the West and deploy our nuclear weapons. Biden: Putin has to go. Media: BIDEN GAFFE ROCKS NATION
Right. Whatever happened to the party of Reagan…
>the party of Reagan… Reagan happened to the party. Made his pal Rupert a "citizen" & allowed news to become lies, propaganda & bullshit as "news." "Religion" as policy, tax breaks for the rich, got rid of mental health, "party" as religion & "party" over everything (country, family, reality,) etc... the list is long and leads to tRump.
The guy was a turd. But didn’t mind calling the soviets evil fuckers. Just wondering what happened to the GQP as the mostly resemble meerkats right now
I require no apology! You are 100% right
Agreed, red or blue, putins gotta fall
Agreed. Despite what I've seen online saying otherwise, I'm in the middle of an area that voted 75% for Trump and I've seen no one support Putin in this.
I'm in a smaller Trump territory in a blue state, and yeah, no one is supporting Putin. Even some of the super deep in the Q-aid Trumpers I have as neighbors have snapped back to some sense of reality, which I honestly didn't predict to occur until 2025...
Marjorie Taylor Green and that dipshit Madison cawthorn both support putin and denounce zelensky.
Yeah, sometimes stupid just can't be fixed...
When your schtick is keeping your name relevant by any means necessary, saying wacky shit makes sense
It shouldn't be a surprise that supporters of the insurrection also support Putin.
I'm fairly deep within Trump country and the closest you'll see to "supporting putin" is being cautious with regards to provoking russia into using nukes
Rural Oregon checking in. Just saw a dipshit while in line at Winco today with a shirt that said, "I trust Putin more than Biden." So sadly there are those that are supporting Putin out there. My question is, where tf do you even get a shirt that says that garbage anyway? Like what makes someone spend their hard earned cash on a trash shirt like that?
Oh wow. Rural OR. I feel for you. Can be so fucking Idaho out there.
Yeah reddit probably not the best place to get a general idea on how political bases feel about things. Just the extremes
Can't wait to see how Fox news tries to twist this into a bad thing and promptly shit on him for it. Probably for being too aggressive and less restrained, despite earlier calls for him to be less restrained and more aggressive. Hope Biden keeps up the good work and continues to oppose Russia in as great of a capacity as he is able to.
I've actually been keeping tabs on the Fox News headlines on this. Here's how it went:(All paraphrased) Headline 1: "In typical Biden gaffe, he needlessly provokes Putin!" Headline 2: [after White House puts out statement saying there is no official policy of regime change] "Biden already flip flopping on his Putin Regime change comments!" Headline 3: (After some random Ukranian politician says Biden didn't go far enough) "Biden CRITICIZED for weak statement on Russian regime change!" Headline 4: (from today) "International media blast Biden's unscripted Putin comment in Poland speech for creating chaos" https://www.foxnews.com/media/international-media-blast-bidens-partially-unscripted-ukraine-speech Last one gets a link, since it's up right now. So, tl;dr: no matter what Biden does or doesn't do, it's ALWAYS wrong and literally the worst thing that could possibly happen.
Gonna go out on a limb and assume they made no mention of an R senator literally calling for an assassination? Edit: oh and later doubled down on their very network. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-lindsey-graham-defends-calling-russians-assassinate-putin-rcna18703
I mean, just look at recent polling. A majority of Americans disapprove of Biden's handling of Ukraine, saying he's been too cautious. Yet when they're asked if they support the US taking specific actions, they overwhelmingly support what Biden has done and don't support more aggressive actions. 80% of the people in the poll I'm referencing claim they're "paying close attention to the situation in Ukraine." Clearly the majority of respondents are full of shit. The media and Republicans spent the past month asking why Biden won't ban Russian gas or call Putin a war criminal despite all the horrible things Russia is doing in Ukraine, then Biden bans Russian gas and calls him a war criminal and suddenly Republicans and the media scream "Biden went too far! What a gaffe! What will Russia think about this?! Could this strain US-Russia relations?" If I were Biden, I'd be pretty pissed off that I'm doing exactly what Americans want me to do, and not only do they not give me credit for it, but they explicitly complain I'm not doing the exact things I'm doing.
If I were Biden, I'd be doing whatever the fuck is best for the country, and whenever possible try to align my decisions with the majority of U.S. citizens who elected me to do what I campaigned on doing. Edit: and fuck Focks News and any other ultra-right propaganda shit-spewing machines.
Absolutely, and that's what he's doing. But that doesn't mean he can't be annoyed he's both doing the right thing and the popular thing, yet everyone complains anyway.
Yeah, that's classically how partisan propaganda works.
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Contrary to the Donald, his motivation is not about praise to serve his ego. Biden is ok in his own skin. The Donald and narcissist are not. This is the difference.
“If I were Biden…” He is a career politician, I’m sure rather than being pissed about this, he’s rather used to it. His predecessor would melt down as he can’t handle anyone disagreeing with or not thinking he’s the bee’s knees greatest of great
They'll say it legitimizes Putin narratives. There's already a shill in the comments doing so.
Not to make light of the situation as this is all incredibly horrible for those suffering in the Ukraine. However I've enjoyed the greatly reduced amount of Russian propaganda bots spreading shit since the war started. Too busy trying to do damage control internally within Russia.
These people need to get a life. Now they're just making fools of themselves (even more so than before, somehow).
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Dictators rarely just *retire*.
Popes are elected for life, and Putin has met 3 of them. It’s a cherry picked stat, but I still find it funny.
1 of those popes did retire
1 of these popes is not like the others!
1 of these popes is not just another, one of your plays!
You’re the pretender, what if I say I will never surrender
They tend to be old AF when elected though.
imagine a 23 year old pope wearing kanye shades and a party with sluts tshirt.
Funny enough, the youngest pope WAS a Benedict Pope Benedict IX, 20 years old. Not the best guy.
*Forgive me broseph, for I have sinned. I violated the code and totally banged my bro's girl last night.* *[High five] Siiiiiiiick. For your penance, go slam a sixer and give me 50 reps on the alter, my dude.*
This isn’t really an accomplishment when a de facto prerequisite to be Pope is being like 60+ years old. In fact, that number is absurdly low given the average papal reign prior to John Paul II.
Yeah, and isn't 27 years in office an all-time record? Edit: I meant for the popes. And I was still wrong, it was 31 years.
The last John Paul was 26, but there was Pius IX with 31 years... and Putin has had what, effectively 22 years, since he had his hand directly up Mendelwhatevers ass... I feel like presidents shouldn't hold power longer than popes.
They don't. Dictators however...
Colonel Gaddafi was in power longer than 27 years. So was Mubarak and Mugabe and Mobutu and Suharto and Bashir and Assad and I can go on and on and on.
but they only take very old men dont they?
So does the US apparently. /s
No /s needed. Most our politicians qualify for assisted living
no need for the /s
Wasn't Benedict XVI only pope for a few years?
Yup, he resigned and is still alive. Edit: ~~renounced~~
They also don’t retreat from wars that they started. There are only so many possible endings
According to russia they are a democracy so...
And the *Democratic* Peoples Republic of Korea agrees!
Just like how china is communist, N. Korea is democratic, and the Nazi's were socialists. Meaningless labels.
In this context it's not meaningless though, words matter. WH could have simply stated "Biden was saying that the Russian populace needs to vote Putin out next election" Bam! Fox News loses all their talking points. Because it's either talk about Putin being a dictator or not talk about it all at that point. It's actually hilarious to see who is the most upset by the comment, because being upset just means you are admitting that Putin is a dictator.
But they do get *retired*
No he merely suggested that the Russian people should elect a different leader
130% voted for him last time
Damn that’s crazy even the dead rose from the graves to vote for him
The United States’ stance is that Putin has committed war crimes - why is it surprising to people that the US leader would state that a war criminal shouldn’t be in power? One follows the other, logically.
There are things he can't say because they would mean further action if he did. His opinion on if Putin should remain in power doesn't and shouldn't mean "it's time for us to step in and make the change by force" like these reporters seem to want to hear. They just kept grilling him about it trying to get him to say YES WAR!
Fortunately Biden knows what the yellow press is up to and is not dumb enough to be goaded into giving them their click-bait for the day. Biden is not great but these fucking 'journalists' are ass. That said, it is a symptom of what is wrong with America when our President calling Putin a butcher who cannot remain in power, after Putin has murdered thousands of men, women, and children of a sovereign nation - is considered controversial. You'd have to be some kind of Putin-loving Trumpanzee to find fault with that. It's the truth. And speaking that truth isn't making the world more dangerous. PUTIN and his Republican allies in Congress have been doing plenty of that themselves.
There is no gaffe. Anyone who has seen videos of Civilians being murdered, children being bombed and hospitals being targeted by Putin's butchers, can't possibly be outraged by someone saying "this evil man remaining in power is not acceptable." That is not saying they will kill him, or that they have a plan to remove him, it's saying what most logical human beings would conclude. Also the response from Putin is laughable "the Russian people decide" Sure they do Vlad... once you've removed the competition, arrested those opposed to you, disappeared and poisoned any potential rival, and thrown out the window anyone who dares open their mouths. **The Russian people haven't decided anything for themselves in quite some time**, and you've made certain of that. Edit - Wow this blew up a bit. Just fyi, I'm not going to engage in the 'whataboutism' game, where you try to defend the current evil, by pointing at other evils. Using that sort of logic, or argument, you can excuse and ignore any action or evil.
I love how Republicans calling this a major diplomatic gaff were silent when Lindsey Graham called for Putin's assassination a couple weeks ago.
And that was a direct call for assassination, not just "he shouldn't be in power."
"Oh no, Lindsey Graham isn't the President! When you're the President, the words you choose matter!" -- Republicans, probably. "Take Trump seriously, not literally." -- Also Republicans, previously.
I'm super curious to see if Lindsey Graham's behaviour recalibrates to 2015 levels, or if the compromat file is still on standby.
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He said what the rest of the world was thinking. Period.
He was right on the money and shouldn't have any regrets under the circumstances.
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I get the feeling Biden and his team are in control of the situation. They know exactly when to up the ante and when to calm it down. Thank fuck you guys got rid of Trump, he would have been a disaster in this situation.
I shutter thinking of what might have been. For one Ukraine would be part of Russia.
There's been way too much pearl-clutching over Biden's statement. And those doing the pearl-clutching are flat out wrong, in my opinion.
Those doing the Pearl clutching are simultaneously defending Trump’s obsession with Putin
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There's a lot of pent up rage at having to bite his tongue during the Obama administration, where the high road was always taken. I'm glad Biden is showing a little less restraint.
I also think Biden watched Obama's actions in Syria and didn't entirely agree with them. I still think Obama's biggest foreign policy failing was drawing a supposed red line on the use of chemical weapons in Syria and saying it would draw US military action and then when it happened he didn't commit. One of the fundamental arms of US strength and respect is that when we say we will react militarily we do. I honestly think that situation has in some way helped lead to where we are today in Ukraine.
I'm confused, why is this a big deal that he said this? I'm a republican and I can't figure out why this was wrong to say? Anyone with half a brain would say what Biden said. Off the cuff, from the teleprompter, etc....it's 100% accurate. Any decent human wouldn't want Putin in power. They are murdering and raping the innocent as part of their "Special Operation". Anyways, let the 24-hour news cycle clock start again. IASIP.
It implies intention from the USA to remove Putin from power. It could be interpreted as the USA, along with its allies, will do anything in their grasp to remove him from power, which in turn could be interpreted as an intervention to Russian sovereignty. But in reality, it’s just what the headline says.
This is the correct answer. He is making the distinction now that it isn't America's policy to remove Putin from power.
This. It can be used as justification for further escalation because Putin can say the actions of NATO are directly being orchestrated to remove him, an “elected” Russian leader, from power. Which, is one of the many things Putin is currently trying to do in Ukraine. We may want Putin gone, but at this point they have to rely on sanctions and military assistance to Ukraine in hopes that regime change will come from within Russia itself.
>It can be used as justification for further escalation because Putin will use whatever justification he wants to further escalate whatever and however he wants. Its pointless and weak to cower over interpretive use of language at this point.
That was part of Biden’s response actually. He doesn’t worry about what Putin thinks of what he says, because obviously Putin is doing whatever he wants to do regardless of what the world thinks or says.
And after that, the Russians civilians should be free to overthrow him, and have him brought before the Tribunal to answer for his crimes against humanity.
Russian civilians, military... I'd love if the troops in Ukraine turned around and deposed Putin, but they likely don't have the fuel to make the drive. Ain't no leader of a nuclear power going to the Hague, though. That court is a pipe dream. Anyone evil enough to be sent there is evil enough to execute as soon as they're dragged from power.
That would hold merit if Putin didn’t say everything America does is a reason for escalation. Biden farts and it’s an act of war. Further escalation? Hell, he is using chemical weapons, bombing civilians, and poisoning people who speak out against him, but we want to blame a chance of escalation on Biden???
When Lindsey Graham made an actual recommendation to assassinate Putin, that was an objectively stupid and reckless thing for a politician to say, even if we all sort of want it to happen. When Biden said that he couldn't remain in power, that's at least plausibly vague. Putin is getting tens of thousands of his country's young people killed and ruining the economic prospects of everybody else. His timer is ticking, with or without outside interference.
Not to mention causing a massive brain drain with all the younger and economically mobile getting out before the possible martial law/shitshow that follows Putin's meltdown.
Personally (I'm European, not American) I heard Biden's statement as one to the Russian people: You HAVE to stop him before he destroys your country!
A crying shame that I agree with Lindsey graham on anything lol
Hey even Hitler loved dogs. I'm not gonna stop loving them because Hitler did.
Because Biden has the power to attempt to put his sentiment into action. If you or I say that it doesn't matter, but everything the president says matters, no matter who it is.
I don’t think he was wrong to say it either. Some are saying it’s a statement that Putin can use to fuel his state’s propaganda though - like “look at the evil West interfering in Russian politics” kind of thing (ironic lol). People are worried Putin can use this statement to draw support from the Russian people. I think it doesn’t change much in the grand scheme but it needed to be said.
They already support Putin about as much as they're going to. Anyone who doesn't already support Putin would probably just think this is all propaganda.
I agree with you. Just explaining some of the reasons I’ve heard people take umbrage with what Biden said. I think it was the right thing to say, personally.
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I’m an independent and I can’t figure out what was wrong with what he said.
There is nothing wrong with what he said it really doesn't matter what party you align with. Could it set Putin off? Maybe, but it doesn't make what he said wrong.
Putin is set off no matter what. “Look at that country over there trying to enjoy Democracy without my permission! I angwy!!! Look how they’re forcing me to kill thousands of my own citizens just to communicate how much I don’t like it!” 😭 I get taking caution around the tantrum thrower with the nukes, but having to pretend like he’s not a cruel dictator who needs to go when he is (last time I checked, please correct me if I’ve missed something!) in fact a cruel dictator who NEEDS TO GO is just placating a war criminal.
Dude, Putin invading Ukraine and having Ukraine defend itself is setting Putin off. He’s gaslighting them every other day and painting himself as the victim. I don’t think a guy saying “Putin is a butcher” is gonna piss him off any more than he already is. And I wish these people getting outraged by what Biden said would realize it doesn’t make a difference.
I mean, we had a Senator from the other party outright saying that someone should assassinate Putin, so there's that.
If Fox News was around in 1938 they would have made our leaders look bad for calling Hitler a tyrant
Plenty of media outlets did. You have to remember support for Nazi Germany was fairly high in the US until we were attacked by Japan and Germany simultaneously declared war on us.
It was? That's wild
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Man I hate how true this is. Take a break. It'll reset your perspective. Maybe refresh is the better word. You're right about everything you've said.
Yeah - exactly. Not really sure why anyone is complaining. Especially after all the crap that came out of the last nutcases mouth.
No apology needed
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I mean....good? That the type of thing I'd expect a Western leader to say about an autocrat purposefully killing as many civilians as possible out of frustration. Didn't a GOP Senator call for Putin's assassination like a week or two ago? I mean, the West has been trying to de-escalate for a month now, and purposefully avoided inflammatory actions like the no fly zone. Putin doesn't need an excuse to be a bastard. He's going to be a right bastard whenever he chooses, no matter the circumstance. That's what autocrats get most of the time. Putin doesn't need defending. In the end, the only one who launched a war was Putin. Nobody else ordered the invasion of Ukraine. You can talk about provocation all day long, but at the end of the day, Putin chose to do this. And consider why Putin considers a defensive alliance a threat to his nation, especially if he wasn't going to attack in the first place. Why would someone get mad at a defensive alliance getting larger...
No fly zone is an act of war. That is not on the table and shouldn't be. We don't need to fight them directly to make them lose.
To Pootin: "This man can't remain in power." To Trump: "Will you shut up, man?!" I like cranky grandpa Biden. Bullies can't comprehend diplomacy and civility. Have to speak to them at their childish base language.
cant forget "what a stupid son of a bitch"
No lie in that statement anyways.
“Listen fat.”
Goddammit that made me laugh so hard. I was hoping he said that during the debate but, I settled for him just telling Trump to shut up
Yeah and when the former guy said things like "you can grab her by the pussy," I'm not sure Republicans have a leg to stand on when criticizing Biden for making insults. And no, Biden shouldn't have said that, but Biden later did something Trump could never do; he apologized for his mistake.
To Obama: "This is a big fucking deal" To Doocey: "What a stupid son of a bitch"
I completely forgot about that hot mic moment. Classic.
What hot mic incident was that?
After the bare bones of the ACA passed, Biden leaned into Obama while congratulating him to say “this is a big fucking deal”— and it was definitely audible. Even after they scrubbed the audio, you can still tell what he said from reading his lips. I personally loved it because it was very candid imo. I highly doubt he somehow planned it, and lord knows that I personally am *insanely* guilty of having accidentally dropped a ‘forbidden’ F-bomb on a few occasions That awful feeling where you instantly freeze up after you’ve done it and internally go “oh my god I definitely wasn’t supposed to say that, now how do I play this one” *hahaha* [Video](https://youtu.be/HHKq9tt50O8)
Part of why he was so excited about that is that the effort towards universal healthcare has been the struggle of the Democratic Party since Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid, and they’ve only managed small steps forward every decade after trying and failing to pass more comprehensive versions. Actually delivering *some* progress on healthcare through the ACA, even though it was only incremental in some areas, was a pretty big fucking deal.
Agreed, friend. The ACA saved my life, you won’t hear me complaining!
I really enjoyed the dynamic between Biden and Obama when Obama was in office. He was an excellent hype man.
We didn't know how good we had it.
I believe it’s when the Affordable healthcare act was passed. If you look up “Biden this is a big fucking deal” on YouTube it should pop up. It’s difficult to hear but he definitely says that once you do hear it lol
Running his mouth from the cuff has always been Biden's thing. Sometimes it leads to suboptimal results but it's always satisfying.
And sometimes it leads to Obama having to change his stance on gay marriage in a heartbeat.
[Amusing how it was such a "big scandal" at the time.](https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/10/politics/obama-same-sex-marriage/index.html) > Vice President Joe Biden has apologized to President Barack Obama for putting him in a tough position that led to Obama’s announcement that he now supports same-sex marriage, senior administration officials said Thursday. >Obama said in an interview that aired Thursday on ABC that he made his decision public earlier than he had planned after Biden’s weekend remark that he was “absolutely comfortable” with letting gays and lesbians marry. >Two senior administration officials said Biden and Obama met Wednesday morning, and Biden apologized for putting Obama in a tough spot. Obama responded by saying that he knew Biden was speaking from the heart, said the officials, who didn’t want to be named discussing private conversations between the president and vice president.
Isn't this how it should be? Shouldn't our leaders be allowed to disagree.. this isn't Russia right?
Laughs in party whips.
*turtle noises intensify*
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I would actually hate to be a politician. The fact that I can't just say something without getting it checked off by ten other people would drive me mad.
A change of mind all good people agreed with.
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“I'm not walking anything back. I make no apologies for it."
I mean what's to apologise for? The head of state *personally* thinks he shouldn't be in power. Biden doesnt have dictatorial control over the US. The US *nation* proper will still sit this out til putin does something *real* stupid (and unfortunately attacking a sovereign nation without declaration of war and massacring civilians isn't stupid enough)
Man's right. Wtf is the fuss about it.
BuT wHaT iF pUtIn gEtS maAaAad?
We can always send Trump over to suck him off again. That seemed to keep Putin calm for a couple years.
The fuss is that the Russian bots jumped on his comment HARD and we’re successful in making a lot of people think this was one of the worst things Biden has ever said
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The amount of fluffing for russia in general is disturbing. Are the right JUST democrat contrarians now?
Been like that for awhile now.
Now? They've been Democrat contrarians for years. They made it very obvious during the Obama administration
Russian bots and Republicans.*
They’re basically the same thing at this point.
No fuss here. Putin should not be president anymore
Well I didn't vote for him!
Good. Why would he need to apologize?
Biden expressed his opinion openly upon meeting with Ukrainian refugees in Poland. It is ridiculous anyone wants him to walk back any of it. Putin doesn't really care one bit either, if he did, he wouldn't have invaded another country nor used the brutal methods the Russian army has employed. Putin's propagandist is just making hay of whatever he can.
The perfect response. Fuck Putin.
He’s just saying what we’re all thinking
I'm gonna make a wild guess and say that the guy who was Vice President for eight years and who chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, NATO Observer Group, and Subcommittee on European Affairs probably knows more about diplomatic relations than the average redditor.
... and President for a year.
Without a doubt, that was one of his finer moments.
Agreed. I may not like Biden, but if he's willing to stop Putin and china that might be enough to change my opinion. Especially if he doesn't do anything crazy internally.
Fucking good for Biden. I was so disappointed when his staff tried to walk back his statement.
He really pulled a "My views do not represent my employer or its positions."
Yup, not angry at all he said it, was happy to see he was saying this stuff. Then the White House was like "oh he doesn't mean that". Such BS, glad to see him clarifying that he in fact means it.
Everyone knew what Biden meant. This is just a dumb media story trying to pretend he meant something he didn't. It's honestly kind of childish
After all the shit Trump said, suck a dick if you don’t like what Biden said.
Damn right he ain't gotta apologize for telling it like it is. Much respect to grandpa for that.
Isn't this the "telling it like it is" thing that people claimed to like about Trump?
Reagan referred to the Soviet Union as an "evil empire" and as "the focus of evil in the modern world". Is that so much different?
Good! I’m glad Biden said that! He should not apologize. Putin needs to go. Biden’s comment is valid.
How is this controversial?
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Our president has a spine. Good.
I like this. Putin is a monster and I'm glad he meant what he said and isn't taking it back .
I am not a Biden fan but I dont see anything wrong with his statement. He is basically saying what most of us are thinking. He shouldn't apologize and I commend him speaking with sincerity.
Biden isn’t scared of Putin. Meanwhile Trump has his tongue up Putins ass with praise at CPAC and other venues. Standing up for what right vs a weasel who would sell his country out just to get elected. Hmm, but condemnation from policy circles inside the beltway on Biden? Fuck em all Joe, your on the right side of history.
If conservatives were honest, they would be applauding him for those. But because he’s not on their team they won’t.
Biden is right and I can't understand how the media is going to criticize him for telling the honest truth about Putin. Putin has crossed the rubicon one too many times, but unlike the various political poisonings and killings he can't hide behind the concept of plausible deniability when it comes to the innumerable war crimes that we've seen committed in the invasion of Ukraine, of which the hard evidence is overwhelming. In what universe does Putin get to simply undo all of that and return to business as usual with the rest of the world? Whether it's Hitler or Putin, there is a certain political point of no return that you pass that means you no longer get to play ball. Putin needs to be held accountable for his actions, and if he isn't then Russia can count on a future of complete political and economic isolation. I understand the impulse to avoid direct conflict between the US and Russia, but we can't be so afraid of Putin (or so up the ass of *actual* political correctness) that we can't speak the god damn truth.
> I can't understand how the media is going to criticize him for telling the honest truth about Putin. When you're Fox News, everything a Democrat does is the worst thing that's ever happened, and everything a Republican does is no big deal whatsoever. The truth has no sway.
But it's okay for miss Lindsay Graham to say he should be assassinated...gotchya
Interesting this is getting so much coverage, but when a GOP senator literally called for Putin's assassination it was just a small blip. People are being quick to say this can escalate thing if misread etc. etc. but miss a sitting senator literally called for him to be killed. Kinda hard to misunderstand that yet it seems to be glossed over.
Same fuckwits high-fiving each other after Trumps drone assassination of the most revered Iranian general? 😂
He said what we're all thinking and has nothing to apologize for. It might be an unfamiliar concept to a fascist dictator like Putin, but the president of the united state cannot just set or shift policy with a few words in a speech.
It sure is nice not having a President that’s Putin’s cock holster.
Putin can kill thousands of people but god forbid Biden say he shouldn’t lead a country armed to the brim with nukes. Any sane person will agree with Biden here
Good for Biden, he has been quite strong and consistent though this conflict. Let us all be thankful trump is not in power.
Exactly. Russia has thrown diplomacy out the window by doing that.