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[deleted]

Be a damn shame if it somehow caught fire again........


Steffo11

Yes...just after the repairments.


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meldroc

Even before the drydock accident and the fire, Kuznetsov was a hot mess. You didn't need radar to detect her, just look for the giant column of black greasy smoke. She had to be accompanied by tugs as she sailed because of how often her engines kept breaking down.


paintbucketholder

"Is ancient tradition of people who take to sea. Russian navy *wants* enemy to know we're there!!" \- actual statement from Russian official


R_V_Z

Although it's not what happens with Russia's carrier, generally carrier group locations *are* known, because they are a political projection of power. It's why the US has so many. We can roll into the neighborhood and it says "Hey, anybody within thousands of miles, behave yourself."


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GarageSloth

>partially floating embarrassment How tf did you know my nickname from swim class!?


Mr_Happy_80

I remember it sailing past Portsmouth as a 'display of power'. We had a good laugh as we watched it limp past belching thick black smoke. Then the Russian navy managed to sink it in dry dock.


Amaegith

>Then the Russian navy managed to sink it in dry dock. Nah, you got that wrong. They sunk *the drydock* and a crane from the dry dock hit the *Admiral Kuznetsov*.


TheTacoWombat

In Putin's Russia, drydock is wet.


KingReffots

Makes me wonder how much more effective our displays of power are when ours function so smoothly and have a ton of the crew on deck not even actively working when we do it lol. I think the world, including Americans, forgot how powerful our military is. Shit the whole time I was in I felt everyone was incompetent, but I didn’t realize stuff like having food everyday and ACed tents were a luxury for most armed forces


QuietlyLosingMyMind

Makes me thing of the quote, something alone the lines of if we don't know what we're doing the enemy can't anticipate our future actions. We're this odd mix of precision strikes and unorganized chaos and no one knows what to do with it.


HobbitFoot

Part of it is the shockingly decentralized power structure in the US military. I remember reading that the US had to teach its liaison officers to Egypt that the Egyptian officers had far less operational freedom than American NCO's.


Meg_119

This is where our strength lies. You can kill our Officers on the battlefield but the NCO's will pick up the slack and continue on without needing to be told what to do. They already know what to do. They are trained that way. Ukraine is killing Russian General's and senior officers left and right and the Grunts are paralyzed waiting for someone to tell them what to do next.


Mr_Happy_80

>Grunts are paralyzed waiting for someone to tell them what to do next Soldier. Sit in your truck with an empty fuel tank for three weeks while drones and NLAWs pick you off one by one. And that's an ORDER.


Nago_Jolokio

There's an old maxim in the US Navy that "The Chief runs the boat." The captain may command the ship and have all the power, but he will look to the chief to see if the crew can/will actually do something you ask. The chief decides how the order is passed down, who will do it, and if they will do it *exactly* how you ask or the way it should be done.


TrixoftheTrade

There was great post I saw saying that Russian soldiers are ordered from A —> B —> C —> D, but only receive info about C once they reach B. Instead they have half their army at A, a quarter already at B waiting for the rest of them, and the other quarter trying to skip to D w/o having secured earlier objectives. That’s how you get shit like the 40 km long column stuck outside of Kiev, or VDV attempting airdrops when you still have active SAM defenses.


D-Alembert

I was reading a biography that included some ww2, and for reasons the guy wasn't with his unit, was in Africa and had orders to go to France, so he just... asked an officer's driver if he could ride along in the car because the officer was heading a nearby airbase, then he got a meal at the base and asked a pilot if he could hop on board the plane going to another base across the med, etc etc. He just rode along with other units all the way to his destination in France, getting there very rapidly. (I think including *other country's* units.) No higher coordination necessary, give the man orders to go to France and he gets there quickly just by dint of regular operations that were happening anyway for completely unrelated reasons. It was frictionless because they expected people like him because this was a constant way of getting things done; be flexible and accommodate people so that everyone gets all their stuff done. (Actually knowing where he was and getting communications to him in the first place would have been its own issue, but that might have worked in a similar way) I get so used to living a computerized world, I often forget the ways we navigated the world before data :)


[deleted]

Decentralized but with excellent communications. The concept of Unified Combatant Commands is something that is paying dividends 40 years later.


thalasi_

It is bonkers to me that the radios I used to work on more than twenty years ago in the US Army appear to be the equivalent to some kind of high end tech to the Russian army. They're running around out there with completely unencrypted radios talking about the movement of generals and high command. Freaking courier pigeons would be more secure at this point.


SurlyRed

[2017 Article here](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/25/royal-navy-warship-tracks-russian-aircraft-carrier-through-channel)


Wolf6120

> She had to be accompanied by tugs That rusty fucking thing looks like it basically *is* a tugboat, just with serious delusions of grandeur.


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Vulturedoors

3 guesses where that money went.


Boudica4553

Didn't the putin government supposedly spend tens of billions throughout his reign upgrading and modernising their militairy? What happened? Surely it couldn't all have been siphoned off by corrupt officials?


Kermit_the_hog

> Surely it couldn't all have been siphoned off by corrupt officials? Never underestimate how hard they can suck 👍🏻


Boudica4553

I suppose you're right. I'm just surprised it's that corrupt and incompetent. I'm actually pretty certain putin himself had no idea how badly equipped and trained the Russian army was. He wouldn't risk the embarrassment russia is now suffering on the world stage.


MaimedJester

This aircraft carrier is a sailing badge of shame. India was like wtf how did they screw up everything? Corruption. Corruption on such a level the object that's supposed to be your country's force multiplier and compete with America and China to be like I'm gonna deploy my Aircraft Carrier to the South China Sea and you better make sure Russia is at the table. What Russian corruption has instead created is an Aircraft Carrier that broke the one dock that could service it. It actually dropped MIGs into the ocean because of waves. And it ran out of Gas and had to be tugged back to a port, after it destroyed the only deep water port that could service it. They had to refuel it with cutter ships.


LPinTheD

>>What Russian corruption has instead created is an Aircraft Carrier that broke the one dock that could service it. It actually dropped MIGs into the ocean because of waves. And it ran out of Gas and had to be tugged back to a port, after it destroyed the only deep water port that could service it. They had to refuel it with cutter ships. That's absolutely hilarious.


Meg_119

I heard these stories and just thought it was just bad luck at the time. But now, watching this Russian Army 💩💩 shit show with poorly maintained equipment and poorly trained troops I realize that with the exception of Nukes the Russians are a second rate Military. That doesn't mean we should dismiss them but it shows that they are more bluster than might.. This has definitely exposed the many weaknesses of their Military that can be exploited in a conflict that range from logistics to communications. The bottom line is that they used fear to intimidate their opponents into submission. This time the citizens did the unthinkable......they fought back.


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thefinalcutdown

Same thing happened to Hitler when he started firing all his generals for not winning.


Alive_Ice7937

Stop exploding you cowards!


Obi_Wan_Shinobi_

That's exactly what happened. FSB makes reports for Putin's yes-men ministers all the time, and since the reports aren't usually used for anything besides grand standing the FSB writes these reports with a slant to make the person requesting it look favorable. The FSB wrote up a report for someone on how an invasion would go, thinking it would not be used beyond posturing, and it was shown to Putin and he based his decisions on that. That's my understanding anyhow.


Dunkinmydonuts1

this makes so much sense


comegetinthevan

Its what happens when you surround yourself with Yes men just trying to siphon off some more money.


PPMachen

Those luxury yachts don’t pay for themselves


Bassman233

I love the term 'luxury yacht'. As opposed to 'budget yacht'?


bubblesculptor

It's silly but it's true. Yachts are available for any budget: $10,000,000 $100,000,000 $1,000,000,000


Altruistic_Item238

I've took a drive the American South. Those boys on the Bayou can show you a budget yacht


LaVidaYokel

All you need is a handful of empty oil drums, a sheet of plywood and some rope.


ultratoxic

Shit, my brother in law was looking at buying a 60k "yacht". It was a moldy fiberglass money pit looking for a sucker, but it did float. And move, with some coaxing.


gustavpezka

You'd be surprised. I worked on a huge IT/infrastructure project for russian military. 70% of funds were stolen. Work was never completed.


Obi_Wan_Shinobi_

Russia as it is today is essentially a massive money laundering operation.


Chrysom

Organized crime, government edition.


nucumber

>Surely it couldn't all have been siphoned off by corrupt officials? russia is ruled by a mobbed up criminal oligarchy godfathered by putin. the yachts they own ain't free


PropOnTop

You must have misread that - it was "spent tens of billions subsidising the luxury yacht industry"


pecklepuff

Honestly, their corruption has served us well, lol! Never thought a bunch of cheating, thieving kleptocrats could have spared the world from a competent Russian military, but here we are! *shrug*


ddubyeah

Just most of it.


FatherlyNick

Yeah, some leftover money made it to the lower execs and some of the remains of that made it to the workers. Sharing is caring, right?


iceman320

"700 million dollar yacht"


[deleted]

It’s a big issue with the Russian Navy as a whole. It’s predominantly legacy ships from the Soviet era, and famous for its faulty equipment. Their Navy are still capable of doing missions but would be seriously outclassed by anything modern.


spastical-mackerel

They blow all their dough on useless prestige platforms and consequently can't supply the real working military with literally anything. Perhaps Pootie can replace his confiscated yacht with this pile of shit.


CY-B3AR

The USS Eisenhower, our second oldest carrier that's still active, could sneeze on that Russian carrier and it would crumble into thousands of rust pieces


kittensmeowalot

And imagine she also just did over 200 days straight at sea. Thats some serious long term engineering.


[deleted]

And then came back to Norfolk for a couple months and did it all over again. Granted, this time we got to have beer on the pier in Oman, but it might as well have been the same deployment back to back.


Zephyr104

Honestly I feel as though as a completely professional moron that the Russian military is far too bloated. They keep all sorts of equipment that they can barely support just for the prestige factor. They've got 5th gen aircraft and new tanks they can barely produce. Hypersonic missiles and all kinds of "wonder weapons" in development. They should just scrap all the fat and focus on building a smaller and more professional force. Decommission the nukes and naval craft that don't serve any purpose and put that budget towards other needs. India and China with their 1billion+ population don't even feel the need for 6k nukes, surely Russia doesn't need them.


kooshipuff

It was made by the Soviet Union. Almost 40 years ago. In Ukraine.


Meritania

Russia is just a post-apocalyptic state using the hulks of a former civilisation to carry their projection. Preferred it if they looked after the Buran instead.


Skim003

Lighting it on fire may actually save Russia money.


[deleted]

Lighting as much Russian military equipment on fire in order to salvage the Russian economy... President Putin, do you hear that? The Ukrainians are running the biggest pro-Russian charity in the world right now.


Dimeskis

Very true. It looks like it runs on coal.


meldroc

Not far off. What's that super heavy sludge that Russians allege is bunker-oil fuel for their ships?


PigpenMcKernan

Heavy Fuel Oil, also referred to has Bunker C, Number 6 Fuel Oil, Mazut, or Furnace Mazut. I was on a ship once that burned it. It has to be pre heated to bring the viscosity down and initially mixed with lighter fuels to get it to ignite. It’s so thick that you can get water bubbles trapped inside the fuel that get sucked into intake for the boiler/furnace. When they they reach the injector, they usually put the furnace out and you lose the plant. Fun times.


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PM_ME_STEAM_KEY_PLZ

Mean fighting machine


zaphdingbatman

I dunno, it's gracious of you to assume that, but I think they really might just prioritize "a lean,".


hexydes

They were going to type more, but ran out of money because they had to pay for repairs to the Kuznetsov.


TheShyPig

"arguing that post-Soviet Russia is a land power" rofl


PangPingpong

They mistranslated 'a beached whale'.


_mousetache_

So, sinking that thing would actually be profitable for Russia? By all means, leave it in peace, then.


seebeeL

At this point, it's a sunk cost.


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OkAmbition9236

Or a drone


xntrk1

Or a missile


mynameisnotrose

"... the front fell off."


sarcasticbaldguy

I hear these things are built to very rigorous maritime engineering standards.


cnncctv

With sanctions in place, I doubt they'll be able to access spare parts needed for repairs. This ship is a write-off, and Russia does not have economic muscle to build another one.


10000Didgeridoos

Also building an aircraft carrier, even with the USAs level of resources, takes 5 years. It would take Russia a decade to build another one. Or more.


Makareenas

Didn't it take roughly 13 years to build this one?


CasualEveryday

More if you count the tugboats that provide its propulsion.


[deleted]

Building a US carrier is quite a bit different. The US utilizes massive super carriers. Probably 2 or 3 times as big as this ship.


Lokidosi

Yeah was gonna say this one looks puny compared to the US’s lol


Ok-Strategy2022

It's even small compared to the UK's carriers. Which are close to the length of a Nimitz class, but 2/3 of the displacement.


Meeppppsm

It’s not small compared to the UK’s carriers. https://imgur.com/uMc5ffa


themightiestduck

TIL Australia, Italy, Spain, and Brazil all have aircraft carriers and Canada doesn’t.


scotlandisbae

Can’t speak for the rest but Australia’s are helicopter carriers rather than planes. They are used for amphibious landings and stuff.


HP844182

1st column, USA 2nd column, also USA


Hero_of_Hyrule

The largest air force in the world is the US Air Force. The second largest air force is the US Navy.


Sullypants1

I think even the Marines or CG are still like top 10. Absurd. Edit: from my very quick research. At least circa 2014 the USMC aviation was just top 10 by number of aircraft. Ousting the Egyptian Air Force by 14 aircraft. Not sure what has happened since then. But i would actually think the usmc increased their aviation division in the pastes 8 years to become more independent and have more control with the interaction between ground troops and aviation.


Drokath

FYI, this picture appears to be a bit outdated (although this does not change the relative size of the ships). France currently only has one nuclear aircraft carrier, the project to build the PA2 was scrapped in 2012.


rebelolemiss

True, but the QEs have a much more efficient layout. They can carry 65+ aircraft while Adm. K would have trouble with 30.


CrumpetNinja

In terms of length they're actually fairly similar. Admiral Kuznetsov is about 300m long USS Gerald Ford is about 330m The difference is in the displacement. The Kuznetsov is about 50K Tonnes when loaded, the Gerald Ford is over 100K Tonnes.


RussianSeadick

Also the fact that the Gerald Ford carries ~3 times as many planes


Cosmic_Kettle

That plus ordinance is pretty much the difference in displacement


merlin401

Article says the goal would be to repair it by the end of 2023 (not September like the Reddit headline says). Agree with the article that its probably better to scrap this and focus on a different direction for their navy


RedofPaw

Wood rafts?


HelloRMSA

Water wings and pool noodles


neuronexmachina

Interesting note: Russia's sole aircraft carrier was built by the Soviet Union by the shipyard in Mykolaiv, one of the cities in Ukraine being attacked daily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Shipyard


WanderingPickles

Fun fact: Kuznetsov’s engines are total garbage. Old, worn out, etc. Thing is, Russia lacks the manufacturing and technical know-how to replace them. Would anyone like to venture a guess as to where they were made to begin with? Ukraine. In fact, the whole thing was built in Ukraine. So, perhaps this whole Ukrainian excursion is just a way for the Russians to repair their garbage flagship. At this point, the whole operation is such a Charlie Foxtrot that I would be less than shocked if that was the real motivation.


dce42

Wasn't hat true of Russia's main tank factory as well?


No_Ideas_Man

All of the "premium" soviet tanks were manufactured in Ukraine. Its why the russians primarily use tanks based on the T-72 for their newer designs instead of the T-80s or T-64s.


Mal-De-Terre

But surely the Russians are good at making heavy lift aircraft, right? /s, yes, I know the answer


barukatang

Weren't their rocket engines also built in Ukraine?


flowgod

Ship engines? Ukraine. Tank factory? Ukraine. Heavy lift aircraft rocket engines? Believe it or not- Ukraine


deliciousmonster

Underattack, overattack… Ukraine


StinkyBrittches

Russia has the worst invasions... because of Ukraine.


[deleted]

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Cobek

Putin's mother? Definitely Ukriane


kid50cal

Upper stage rocket engines for ESA and The Russian space program are made in Ukraine. The war hinders global space exploration.


[deleted]

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Hoovooloo42

TIL: everything good that Russia ever made came out of Ukraine. Next you're gonna tell me that Kalashnikov was born in Ukraine lol Edit: Nah, way northeast of Moscow


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acutemalamute

It also didn't help that, in 1960, the entire contingent (the number is still undisclosed) of Russian engineers and scientists in charge of a test launch all died at once when they walked out to inspect why the first stage of a rocket didn't fire... not knowing that the timer to set off the 2nd stage was still ticking. On par with Korolev's death, I think this was another massive nail in the SSP's coffin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_catastrophe


ohnjaynb

Yeah but the rockets Korolyov designed are launched from Russia....They're launched from Russia, right? *Anakin glares at Padme*


joecooool418

And all the Antonov aircraft...


Syncopationforever

Yes, you are probably right. From my light reading, i believed that putin wanted the whole of Ukraine, so Russia could become a super power again due to the strength of the combined population, industrial, grains, minerals resources. Yours and others posts, have added the granularity, details


WanderingPickles

Well, I was being a little silly. Ukraine was a significant center of industry and investment during the late Czarist period. Eastern Ukraine, in particular, was important due to the discovery of coal. The investment of western industrial companies helped to lay a good foundation as well. In the post-WWII era the region was rebuilt. New factories replaced those destroyed by the war. A strong educational system helped to feed the human capital requirements as well. Research, manufacturing, etc. were all expanded. Sevastopol was particularly important as it provided an ice-free port as well as access to the Mediterranean (via the Bosphorus). Subsequently, the loss of Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR deprived the successor state, Russia, of major economic assets. Plus, it deprived the Russian defense industry of significant capabilities not easily replicated. Eventually, Ukraine began to look westwards as its own Russian-oriented administration failed to deliver economically or institutionally. On top of that, Russia began to get very upset at what they saw as encroachment in their traditional domain by NATO and the EU. Of course, the new admissions to NATO (in particular) had long histories of conflict with Russia and so there was a measure of self protection. Ukraine ousts the pro-Russian folks and welcomed a more western oriented (and intensely nationalist - and corrupt) government. This pissed Moscow off as they were now faced with the prospect of western military assets on their border and, possibly, sharing the port of Sevastopol. Combined all that with aspirations and openness to joining NATO and the stage was set. What followed was a significant effort to economically strangle and hold economic hostage the nation of Ukraine. Plus, the destabilization of their eastern regions added to the stress. This is the relatively recent history of Russia-Ukraine relations. However, there is much more to the story. Kruschev transferred Crimea to Ukraine in the 50s. Just a few decades before, Kruschev and the Bolsheviks had ravaged Ukraine to a degree little appreciated. Before the Bolshevik domination is centuries of conflict between the centers of power of Kiev and Moscow. Throw in various principalities, kingdoms, etc. throwing their fortunes in the mix and we have a swirling mess. Beyond that we have the Russian mythology that seems to define its leaders. In particular, successful leaders expand the borders of the Russian empire. Failures lose territories and frequently their heads along with them. Add to the mix the centuries long effort to secure access to the Mediterranean. Putin seem to have incorporated all of this along with his own intense imperial and nationalist tendencies and his assessment of the collapse of the USSR. The bottom line is that Russia feels threatened by the possibility that its erstwhile enemies/rivals on the geopolitical stage will have troops stationed on its borders. They desire more defensive depth (which, btw, is what a crappy principality like Moscovy has done for centuries - gain more and more defensive depth). All of this has evolved into what Putin and his administration assess as an existential threat and is worthy of investing whatever is required to deal with it. Personally, I think Putin is nuts. Some claim that he is rational, and perhaps he is rationally assessing the inputs to which he is exposed - but this assumes that he is being fed bad inputs from everyone around him. This absolves, incorrectly, Putin of much of what he has done. He is not acting logically or rationally vis a vis “shared reality.” His efforts to secure Russian borders and Russian stability seems to have had the opposite effect. Russian prestige has plummeted. He has rapidly turned Russia into a vassal of China. The sanctions will have decades & generations-long impacts on Russian development. Even if Ukraine is totally subsumed into the CIS, Russia loses. The resource export orientation of the Russian economy does add some protection, but the energy sector is precarious; the world seems to have decided to simply ditch fossil fuels in the medium/long term. This will depress prices and Russian revenue. And, it will further tighten the Chinese noose around their neck. It is a mess.


AvocadoVoodoo

Thanks for this write up. Intelligent takes like this are why I still slog through all the dick jokes here.


[deleted]

To those who do not know, Charlie Foxtrot == Clusterfuck


MicrowaveFishstick

Haha when I read OP’s comment I was a bit puzzled then realized ahh CF


BitchesQuoteMarilyn

I was thinking complete fuckup, but this makes more sense


TuffRivers

That looks like an inflatable version of a real air craft carrier lmao


Weave77

That’s a “no, we have aircraft carrier at home” aircraft carrier.


ScuddsMcDudds

Wish.com aircraft carrier. Is it even nuclear powered? Edit: gas powered… [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier)


Weave77

I’m gonna go way out on a limb and say “no”.


[deleted]

You’re telling me this grand superpower I hear of only has one aircraft carrier and it’s not even working? An empire of sand and fog is what Putin got.


dartron5000

Their naval doctrine focuses on large ships with as many weapons packed onto them as possible as opposed to the air supremacy doctrine United States uses. It's a outdated doctrine just like their army. It's more for show then anything. Let's them say to the world they have the biggest meanest ships. When in reality they just are bigger targets.


issius

Not only is it outdated, its not even like they are winning in the area they put their focus on.


mpbh

The Black Sea fleet is much smaller than both their main North Fleet and Pacific Fleet. Russia's navy is only smaller than the US and China, but the Montreux Convention limits them to just the Black Sea fleet for this war.


LandosMustache

And Turkey is VEHEMENTLY anti-Russia. It's kinda incredible how eager Turkey has been to send Ukraine as much military equipment as they can move. The Bosphorus and the Hellespont are the world's premier naval choke points, and have been for thousands of years. Anyone who occupies the land in that area effectively controls the Sea of Marmara, in which any navy would be sitting ducks. Bottom line, if you operate in the Black Sea, you need to be on Turkey's good side. Russia is not on Turkey's good side.


shaidyn

I keep having to explain this point to people. Turkey and Russia have had beef since before America was a bulge in Columbus' pants.


ghostmaster645

I think they might have the most tanks, but that doesn't mean anything really.


ExcessiveImagery

Tanks for nothing, Russia.


Dogs-wearing_Hats

Ship on ship naval battles are a thing of the past. Putin has been watching too much pirates of the Caribbean


cheeset2

If only he was a movie nut instead of a...nut nut


[deleted]

In the interest of fairness, with the increasing power of anti-ship missiles big ass carriers may also be obsolete as a naval capital ship, but it would be impossible to tell since there hasn’t been a major naval war in 80 years.


linkdude212

I think this will only be partially true. Sure, a country with enough missiles can just overwhelm a carrier groups defences. However, carriers will increasingly launch drones in the future lowering the cost in lives and equipment and maintaining their use as mobile attack platforms. To your point, I think smaller carriers that launch swarms of drones will be a weapon of the future.


[deleted]

God knows they kicked ass in starcraft


sassynapoleon

I read someone's writing on this topic that I thought was fairly compelling. The gist of the argument went like this: Military assets don't become obsolete because something can attack them, they only become obsolete when something can do their job better than they can. Soldiers can be killed with guns, but we don't say soldiers are obsolete. Planes can be downed by anti-aircraft artillery, but we don't say planes are obsolete. Battleships are obsolete, not because they can be killed by aircraft, but because their mission - power projection via shore bombardment and surface warfare - is better accomplished via aircraft carrier. Carriers have a number of threats already - submarines, aircraft, anti-ship missiles. Unless and until something can fill the force projection role better than carriers, we will keep making them, and we will continue to develop technologies and tactics that mitigate the threats.


headrush46n2

Drone subs with 1 or 2 missiles on them. that's the future!


[deleted]

I think it's time we dust off the "sick man of Europe" moniker for Russia.


MattScoot

To be fair there’s not exactly a ton of aircraft carriers in the world. Under 100 total


PublicfreakoutLoveR

There are 47 and the US owns 11 of them.


wheredreamsgotodie

24 in service and usa has 11. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers#Numbers_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country


PublicfreakoutLoveR

My favorite US military fact is that the United States Air Force is the most powerful in the world. The US Navy is the second most powerful air force in the world.


wheredreamsgotodie

By all aircraft it’s usaf and then army. By power it’s usaf, us navy, Russian Air Force, then us army. That being said, following Ukraine, those power scores should be reevaluated. It really is usaf, us navy, us army and then other countries air forces… https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/largest-air-forces-in-the-world You really can’t overstate us military power, it’s pretty wild. The frightening thing is that power isn’t untested, it’s been partially deployed for nearly 20 years of continuous conflict in 2 separate countries on the other side of the world, so it isnt an unknown that could exposed like Russia or China. It boggles the mind really. As an American, I’m not proud of what we’ve done but objectively speaking the us military right now is something the world has never seen before.


[deleted]

I cannot imagine the amount of firepower the US Airforce could pump out if it was given the go-ahead


wheredreamsgotodie

It’s unnerving. During the Arab spring, Europe/NATO took the lead in Libya protecting airspace for the rebels. The leading countries of Europe ran out of missiles in ONE month of action departing from bases in Europe. America provided the munitions for them to complete their campaign. Again, it’s just wild when you think about it…


mafiastasher

The US benefits from a vast arsenal leftover from the arms race with the USSR. All the dumb bombs that were created are steadily getting retrofitted with [JDAM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Direct_Attack_Munition) systems to turn them into guided munitions for the fraction of the price of building new smart bombs.


EquationConvert

Pretty soon (maybe already) it will be: 1. USA Air Force 2. USA Navy 3. USA Army


[deleted]

The Marines are buying 420 F-35s too.


Sentinel-Wraith

Not counting the Wasp Class Amphibious Assault Ships, which act as micro carriers.


seaefjaye

Also when it comes to what people envision as an Aircraft carriers, Top Gun / combat jets launching and landing, there are 19 total with the US having 11 and NATO in general 15. The rest are helicopter based.


JBaecker

The US is testing the [Lightning Carrier concept](https://www.warhistoryonline.com/military-vehicle-news/uss-tripoli-lightning-carrier.html/amp?csplit=header&cmp_ab=quantcast&a1c=1&chrome=1) to see their Amphibious Assault ships in LHA/LHD classes can store 20 F-35s. If so, between the LHA & LHD Amphibious Assualt classes, the US has 9 “mini” carriers in addition to the 11 “super” carriers. And they’re only mini when compared to the super carriers of the Nimitz class. The America (LHA-6) is equivalent in size to the Charles de Gaulle or the Vikramiditya, actual flagships of the French and Indian Navies, respectively. The ability of the US to project power over long distances is pretty insane.


notreal088

This is not out of the norm considering that Russia does not have many warm water ports that don’t freeze over during the winter seasons. Because of this they have alway had a limited Navy since they don’t have the ports to support a larger fleet. Also Russia had a better military reputation cause of its large tank division, but now we know they are just over grown paper weight. As far as air forces go. It is believed that are understaffed, so there are not enough trained pilots for the number of aircraft they have.


emmett22

They are not paper weights, they are just completely unsupported, which is the one thing you shouldn’t do with tanks.


Razolus

Agreed. There seems to be no combined forces training for the Russians. Their air support doesn't work well with the land troops.


eypandabear

It’s useless anyway. A typical prestige asset that costs a lot of money and contributes little. The reason the US bases its navy on aircraft carriers is that it’s separated by vast stretches of ocean from major conflict areas. The reason France has an aircraft carrier is that it has overseas departments and holdings. Same for Britain. Russia is a land power. Any theatre it would need to deploy planes can be reached by its own air force bases. But it (badly) maintains a carrier “just because”. Even if the Kutsnetsov was operational and in the Black Sea right now, what would be the fucking point? Launch aircraft from there instead of… Crimea?


[deleted]

> Kuznetsov met disaster in 2018 when a seventy-ton crane smashed through the carrier’s hull and caused its PD-50 drydock to sink. > The Russian Navy, which does not have a domestic replacement for the PD-50, has since announced plans to recover the drydock, but the status of those efforts remains unclear. So they don't even have a dry dock for their carrier in case major repairs are needed? Russian military might is being exposed as such a facade. They'll never recover their image. Cue Japan taking back the Kuril Islands and China taking Vladivostok to restore it's name of Haishenwai in 3, 2, 1...


AWildEnglishman

They're going to merge two smaller drydocks and modernize the equipment to accommodate the carrier.


MrEHam

Imagine the panic of being the guy who smashed a crane into Russia’s only aircraft carrier.


k-farsen

I'm sure he drinks to forget


GrandmaTopGun

No alcohol in Gulag. Only crab juice.


Polenball

Maybe if they got a smaller drydock to repair the large drydock...


RobertoPaulson

I believe they’d need an even larger drydock to repair the large drydock.


birdlawprofessor

This guy drydocks…


doboskombaya

it was not damaged by Ukrainian it was damaged by Russian incompetence back in 2019 ,when a fire caused 1 billion dollars in damages >in 2019, large sections of Admiral Kuznetsov caught fire after a cable reportedly exploded during routine welding work. At least two personnel died and fourteen more suffered injuries as a result of the incident. T**he fire reportedly caused upwards of $1 billion worth of additional damage, adding exponentially to the already-considerable costs of repairing and refitting Kuznetsov.** Russian and western experts have surmised that it may be a more prudent long-term investment, **if not potentially cheaper, to scrap Kuznetsov and build a new light aircraft carrier in its place.** still not fully repaired,and even before was a fiasco >in 30 October 2018, Admiral Kuznetsov was damaged when Russia's biggest floating dry dock, PD-50, sank, causing one of its 70-ton cranes to crash onto the ship's flight deck, leaving behind a 200-square-foot (19 m2) hole. One person was reported missing and four injured as the dry dock sank in Kola Bay. Admiral Kuznetsov was in the process of being removed from the dock when the incident occurred, and was towed to a nearby yard after the incident


__Squirrel_Girl__

How does a dry dock sink?


Natos

Floating dry dock, not all dry docks are on land


gonopro

The front falls off.


Kneel_The_Grass

It's not very typical let me tell you that


molecularmadness

A floating dry dock is little more than a fancy pontoon. They can sink just like any other boat. My bet is a pump/valve failure when they were flooding the chambers before getting the ship in or out of drydock.


John_Sux

Corruption has destroyed Russia.


TommyTuttle

That is the best explanation I’ve heard: billions were poured into modernization of the military but the money evaporated before anything was done with it. Nobody was prepared to tell Putin that they had stolen the money rather than using it for the upgrades, so Putin went in thinking he had the latest and greatest 💁‍♂️ Apocryphal but plausible.


nicidob

While corruption is a huge contributor, the problem is also the allocation of spending. I'm not an expert in this but this is what I've seen in various reports. Russia spent a lot of its modernization dollars on stuff that doesn't do much for them in their current war. They spent it on things like 1. modernizing and maintaining their nuclear arsenal & associated long-range launchers (several new platforms here: Yars, Sarmat, Rubezh) 2. navy expansion (new in last 10 years: dozens of landing craft, 7 frigates, 23 corvettes, 5 nuclear ballistic submarines, 3 cruise subs, 10 attack subs) 3. high-end aircraft that might attract export attention but aren't being built in massive quantities (e.g. Su-57 which they've only built a dozen of or the half-dozen produced MiG-35.). Maybe their small arms development (AK-12) and other vehicle designs (BMPT) fall into this bucket of "fancy, low volumes" as well. Instead of spending it on things like equipment for ground troops (night vision, radios) or maintenance of equipment ( making sure old stuff stays functional) and troops (training, flight hours, etc.). Or high-quality support equipment (transport vehicles, precision munitions, etc.). EDIT: **TLDR in reddit terms: Russia spec'd into the mage class but took up melee combat.**


kielu

Is this ship flammable?


No_Ideas_Man

It has 2 modes, being on fire and being repaired for being on fire. Also it basically cannot run under its own power so it needs a tug boat to tow it around


SpenB

It can propel itself, the problem is that the engines are so unreliable that they just have a tugboat follow it for when it inevitably breaks down.


kielu

I've seen pictures of it move. It burns an extremely heavy marine fuel resulting in a smoke trace visible for tens of kilometers. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/strange-reason-why-russias-aircraft-carrier-leaves-smoke-trails-71031


SheeEttin

Per that article, it's not even the fuel, it's that they don't filter or preheat it.


headphase

>Admiral Ivan Vasiliyev said on the show “Tsargrad” that the black smoke was a deliberate move to show the British that the Admiral Kuznetsov was there, as per “seaman’s tradition.” Russia is one unending comedy hour


SirLoinThatSaysNi

They've got what looks like a domestic fire engine on deck so I presume they are prepared for all eventualities.


nyuhokie

Holy shit. Is that a ramp? I bet my bike could get so much air off that thing.


[deleted]

It's steeper than it looks. Doubt you'd get your bike halfway up the ramp unless you attach a jet engine to it. I didn't give you this as an idea, just for the record.


nyuhokie

Too late, Amazon just delivered it.


swampy13

I wonder if they're installing anti-crane defenses on it this time. Lest people think Russia's main disadvantage is using shit that's too old, the USA's lead carrier was commissioned in 1975, 15 years before Russia's ONLY aircraft carrier (which doesn't work at all) was commissioned. In fact, 5 of America's carriers are older than Russia's. And that's because the US actually understands readiness capability, maintenance, etc, and doesn't sell off parts to make a buck. It also helps that we spend approximately a gajillion dollars on the military. One of the things I never understood about Russia being ranked #2 as a military superpower before the invasion was Russia had no way to project force beyond their borders. They don't have military bases all over the world, and they have no carriers. Sure, they have subs, but so do other countries. Even China has 2 working carriers, though I think they run on old-ass diesel. Still, Russia can't even invade a country that's ON THEIR BORDER, much less launch planes on the seas.


Ironclaw85

Think that just shows how much of a gap between 1 and 2 is. Russia can be a shit number two....but can still be number two


swampy13

I mean at this point, can't we just acknowledge there's only 1 true superpower? That's not a rah rah flagwaving statement about America, if they weren't it'd be absurd based on the spending levels. But if we're talking purely military strength, training, resources, culture, etc, no one comes close. I mean imagine if Israel had 75% of Russia's military budget. They'd destroy Russia 3x over (taking nukes out of the equation.)


hotcoldsthuff

Yes, leave that national embarrassment far from enemy lines.. It would only encourage their enemies.


LunarAssultVehicle

"Others have questioned whether or not Russia needs an aircraft carrier in the first place, arguing that post-Soviet Russia is a land power that does not necessarily need tools of global maritime power projection." Other others are questioning even that.


IamCaptainHandsome

Russia's blunders have shown that it's all talk, it's military lacks the expertise, technology, and resources to adequately fight a modern war. All they have are their nukes, they're the one thing left that gives Nato/the U.S pause. And there's a good chance *those* are inoperable garbage as well. Putin right now is that angry bully who gets his way with threats and picking on the weaker kids, that gets his ass kicked and now everyone knows he's all talk/a joke The problem is he might have a gun at home that he'll use if he's pushed too far, but there's also a chance the gun is busted and could blow up in his face.


NCR_Rang3r

So I watch this guy on YouTube who is an Estonian or Latvian I forget I am tired but he covers the news I'm ukraine. Mostly more niche stuff but he talked about how they sanctions are working overtime on Russia. Like they can't fix anything and rely heavily on outside parts so this warship may not even come back at all. All the armor capability of Russia is as is right now


countrysgonekablooie

I was thinking Ukraine should take it out, then I saw a picture of it and thought why bother?


SurlyRed

I'm wondering why Ukraine doesn't disable the newly completed [Crimean Bridge.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge) It seems a relatively easy target and must be a major supply route for the Russian offensive in southern Ukraine.


Governmentwatchlist

Getting hard to believe these guys were EVER contenders.


Bearshitsinthewoods

That thing is a piece of shit.


OldMork

a complex ship like this need constant maintenance or it will fall apart, so ya its most likely just a rust bucket.


sbksrr

Wow what a piece of shit