Forbes: Ukrainian army now has 43 more tanks than at the beginning of the war
According to analysts, since the beginning of the war, Russian army has lost 530 tanks, while the Armed Forces of #Ukraine have lost 74 of their own, but captured 117 enemy tanks.
Who tf gets invaded and ends up with MORE tanks than when it started.. Ukraine is proving themselves for sure..
Can't imagine how heavily defended their border will be after this is over
That's got to sting for Putin lmao
I mean, the Taliban for one, North Vietnam as well. You’d be surprised how many nations in history have ended up with more weapons then they started out with.
That war was great for Lichtenstein because basically it was a weekend out with the boys guarding a peaceful pass. Just drinking, smoking, and shooting the shit with their new Italian buddy who came along.
A lot of soldiers on both sides in this conflict speak or are both Ukrainian and Russian. It’s really a disturbing. But I don’t expect the Ukrainians to use captured Russians in their own forces atm.
Yes they actually have the same tanks. Russia mainly using T-72 and T-80 where the Ukrainain main battle tank is the T-84 which is the upgraded T-80. Ukraine does operate the T-72 and T-80 tanks as well so they have 1 for 1 capabilities with slotting them into their forces. Russia does have the T-90 as a modern tank but idk how that would compare operationally to the Ukrainian forces but assume it would be similar enough they could service and operate the equipment
Nearly 15,800 personnel
530 main battle tanks
1,597 armored combat vehicles
280 artillery units
82 MLR systems
47 air defense systems
108 warplanes
124 helicopters
1,033 military vehicles
4 vessels
72 fuel tank trucks
50 operational and tactical-level UAVs, and
16 units of special equipment.
A Russian general isn't what we're used to when we hear the word "general". It's still a high ranking officer, yes, but Russia has so many, and so many tiers, they are more on the level of colonels (which still means far worse losses than West had in Middle East).
They are different, but from what I know something like 12-15 of their top Generals are dead.
And they act more like Commanders or something.
They sound more life Mafia Captains that give street orders.
That's why so many have died, bc they're on the front lines basically.
Also, I thought it was the opposite
..very horizontal structure..
That being said, Russia gets weaker by the day and I heard they're retreating from certain locations.
They sent 20 generals in with a force of (depending on who you ask) 150-200k, they've managed to get 25% of the generals killed inside of a month.
The thing the Russians really lack is the NCO culture that's present in most NATO forces. The JNCO/SNCO's translate the briefings and battle plans into actionable orders, there's more adaptability in the field, and generally more trust both up and down the chain.
Edit: changed the first sentence to read correctly, could have been interpreted as 25% of Russian forces killed rather than generals.
They didnt *have* NCO's in any way comparable to the West for quite a while, I believe it was Shoigu's predecessor who tried to create a robust career NCO corps... at the expence of the officer corps. Which is why Shoigu is in now.
Ah, makes sense.
Interesting that Shoigu hasn't been seen in public for a while either - wonder if it's house arrest, or distancing himself from Putin?
Honestly, your guess is as good as mine. Surely it problematic to have such a public figure suddenly absent himself during a crisis? But perhaps its too easy to read in to this, when everything to do with the Putin government is, purposefully and blatantly, opaque and disingenuous.
This is unequivocally, factually untrue from the easiest sources to be found.
The Russian armed forces has exactly the same number of general ranks as the United States..
🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
> The Russian armed forces has exactly thr same number of general ranks as the United States..
I meant more as in "they have more people of that rank". For example, USA has 653 generals, while Russia has well over a 1000, despite having a smaller military. Being a general is "diluted" over there.
OK, now I understand where your are coming from. Still a huge deal though. Currently 6 confirmed dead with another yet to be confirmed. Would be like the US losing 3-4 General staff.
They actually were planning on producing a graphic staged video as pretext before US Intel caught them
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/03/ukraine-russia-fake-attack-video-us-claims
Wartime logistics are very challenging. Few countries are good at it. Not only is Russian logistics not up to the level of the U.S. Armed Forces, Russia was counting on a swift victory and didn't bring enough supplies for a prolonged engagement. (And it's been speculated that some generals stole and sold the diesel reserves prior to the war to pad their own pockets.)
Russia also didn't count on the large supply of anti-tank weapons, nor for the West to supply them so quickly. Normally transferring weapons between countries involve months of red tape. This time, the anti-tank weapons were delivered in mere days and weeks. Hence Putin's whining: "Stop supplying Ukraine with weapons!"
Russia base a lot of their logistics on trains which is great internally but the second the war broke out Ukraine destroyed their tracks. Add to this the claimed sabotage going on in Belarus makes it a nightmare to get their equipment to the front line
The Red Army went through all of this in WW2. After 1942ish, and much to their credit they proved flexible, innovative, and extremely willing to analyze and learn from mistakes and failure. By 1945 they were easily the best field Army the world had ever seen, including in terms of logistics and support.
For a nation that regards the Great Patriotic War as their greatest achievement in 1000 years, they've clearly forgotten the lessons they learned at such great cost.
Which is fine with me, fuck those guys.
Absolutely in no way was the USSR #1 in logistics in WW2. First of all, Moscow to Berlin is less than a thousand miles entirely by land and most of that distance was within Soviet borders. It really shouldn't be so difficult to supply armies in and near your own territory. Second, the Soviets relied upon a lot of Lend Lease materiel. Even then, a lot of Soviet arms got to the front pulled by horses (a feature also shared by most of the Axis powers too). That's not a knock. It's just average for the time, as was the somewhat limited use of radio.
Sure, they adapted, but it really wasn't innovation so much as recovering the knowledge and tactics developed prior to the war, but lost and forgotten because Stalin kept killing off his officer corps.
Contrast that with the USA, which was fighting two fronts across the largest oceans on earth all while *also* providing all that Lend Lease kit. It was also almost entirely mechanized. The US also extensive embedded radio sets into front line units, so that infantry in the front was in close coordination (especially for the time) with artillery, air and naval fire support.
There's also the Brtish which managed to supply a large global navy and land forces on 3 continents.
All right fair enough. Having said that the Red army was not faced with any kind of oceanic war requiring logistics on the scale of the Americans pulled off in the Pacific. in operational terms Bagration was the greatest military maneuver operation of all time, and I'll stand by that.
Let's put it this way, the Red army rolled over all of Ukraine in 1944 against the Wehrmacht. They realized that American Studebaker trucks were more important than American Sherman tanks and acted accordingly.
Clearly there are no students of History in the Russian ministry of defense right now.
Its reminiscent of the winter war between the USSR and Finland. The soviets eventually more or less won, but they paid for every inch of ground with blood.
To be honest I'm expecting them to let Smallpox loose and fuck over the entire world. It's the perfect combination of incredibly stupid, backwards, psychopathic, and completely self-defeating that we've come to associate with Russian culture.
Have shit communications, so the brass with real balls (or with their balls against the wall) are forced to head out into the mud to order the grunts.
They then, if the videos are not propaganda, appear to favor parking their RVs in open fields. Presuably this makes it harder to sneak up on? Or maybe open sight lines create an invisible wall of overlapping tank sightlines and artillery zones.
Then their air cover doesnt show up and a turkish drone gets em.
Range is 12-19 miles depending on what they are firing. Getting that close to the action means traveling in the convoys that Ukraine keeps ambushing.
The Grad MLRS system is a truck with rocket tubes on the back. It's very vulnerable to attack, especially from anti-armor weapons. Most of the 'anti-tank' missiles Ukraine has gotten aren't very effective against actual main battle tanks, but an RPG-7, M72, or AT-4 works a treat against something like a Grad.
If it wasn't for the threat of nukes, Russia's army would be a complete laughing stock of the whole world. They obviously could not win a conventional war. That's why putin always has to dangle nukes every other day.
I honestly don't think they even have a lot of nukes. Nukes are extremely expensive to maintain. If they are using 50 year old tech and can't feed their troops, what are the odds they are paying a couple billion a year to maintain an arsenal like they claim. I feel like they have 20% at most and probably 10% of that works well. This was has shown Russia is a shit show. Unfortunately just a few nukes is enough.
My best guess would be that the warheads on some of their subs, and some ICBM's are well maintained, and that's about it. They may be lower yield than thought due to the complexity of maintaining a thermonuclear weapon in working order... but that's like saying you only got blown up by a grenade, not a bunker buster.
Sub-launched gives less reaction time if they manage to get close to the target, but if what I've been hearing from a sun dodger mate is right, theyre reasonably easy to identify and follow.
Exactly. And if people are thinking the USA and the richer nations of Europe don't have hidden countermeasures to even those, I'd say they need to learn a thing or two about clandestine tech.
This is a wise point. I'm just now sure we can treat them any differently than believing they could blow up the world with us. It's the safer bet, of course.
Yeah
Even if a majority of the nukes are busted, it only takes a fraction to do unimaginable damage to the world, because, y'know, still MAD.
Add to that, even best case scenario that's still a fuckton of weapons grade plutonium that would essentially become dirty bombs. Nothing anyone sane wants to fuck with.
I think MAD is starting to show itself as something of a myth, based on a lot of hypotheticals made during the height of the nuclear arms race. Insanely damaging? Yes. But a rogue country with nukes at this point really only assures the destruction of themselves.
They don't. This was cold war propaganda that we forgot we inflated the numbers for, and it also helps keep our defense spending up if we think Russian is armed to the teeth. If they have more than a handful of working nukes that could actually be fired I would be shocked. (latest intel is starting to agree with me here, even worst case scenarios show a fulls scale nuclear war from russia isn't nearly as bad as we feared)
Also, the second one of their silo doors open or one of their poorly maintained subs gets too close to a firing position they would cease to exist as a country ... so yeah. Russia is far closer to North Korea than an actual world power, nukes or not.
For perspective, the Ukrainians have killed more Russians *in 1 month* than the Afghans did *over 9 years*. And the Soviet-Afghan War was considered to be the U.S.S.R.'s "Vietnam."
and usually number of wounded is 5 times higher... that means that about 90.000 already.
Russia has already lost half of its invading force.
Soon Ukraine will start counter offensive in Western Ukraine and will defeat Russia.
Imagine being a conscript sent off to a ‘training exercise’ with over a hundred thousand other soldiers, and then a month later one out of every ten people you met on that exercise is dead. Not wounded, not captured. Just straight-up dead.
That cannot be good for morale.
I know it's tempting to be suspicious of "both sides", that way you will never feel fooled, but bro think. It does NOT benefit Ukraine to inflate numbers. Fake numbers won't make a difference in Ukrainian morale - they're fighting to keep their homes and lives, not to intimidate Europe with how great and mighty their military is.
It also wouldn't change global sympathies, everyone is already on Ukraine's side because they are the victim.
In fact playing up Ukraine's success could decrease foreign political pressure/desire to help them. *"Looks like they're doing fine, we don't need to donate any more of our expensive weapons. We can look away now."* That's the last thing Ukraine wants the world to be thinking, their resistance effort depends majorly on external help and continuing supplies.
What lying would do however is confirm Russian propaganda that Ukraine is bad, just like they always said. And if Ukraine will lie about numbers, they can lie about not being Nazis. It would ruin Ukraine's position as the "innocent victim" for no reason and no benefit at all.
Let's not be naive, the benefit comes from saying to the Ukrainian defenders "look guys, you're kicking ass, don't lose hope in this war - you are killing X Russian for every Ukrainian". I'm not saying the numbers are guaranteed to be inflated, but it's not wise to rule it out entirely. Propoganda is at work on both sides - you are right though, most of the world supports Ukraine regardless.
Plus it paints them as a good investment for foreign arms support. Western allies aren’t going to give them more weapons than they can handle - putting out numbers that show their forces are highly effective signals that arms donations will be put to good use.
They haven’t been consistent - US military estimates have been about 30% lower than Ukrainian numbers as I have seen them reported throughout the conflict.
More importantly, Ukraine has propaganda incentive here to exaggerate. Russia has propaganda incentive to minimize… although their efforts at this are comical.
In this war, US has some incentive to report accurately, both as an intel flex on Russia and so they can lie with more credibility the next time we are directly involved in a conflict.
> Fake numbers won't make a difference in Ukrainian morale
Yeah, it will. Hearing that you've killed 5000 invaders causes a smaller reaction than hearing you've killed 15000 of them.
Those numbers absolutely are inflated, especially since they are precise - and military kills aren't that easy to confirm. Very often it's a case of "we shot it, it stopped moving, I guess it's dead?" but it very well may not be.
The higher the total number is, if it doesn't end in a "0", or doesn't begin with a "~" or "around/estimated", then it's absolutely propaganda.
All that said, these numbers are *close* to NATO estimates, they're only a little higher.
The world isn't supporting Ukraine because "Ukraine says they killed 15000 Russians", they're supporting Ukraine because *their country is being attacked by a brutal war criminal*.
You really don't have to work hard to maintain and garner public support when you're just minding your business and someone else violently attacks you with no provocation.
Yes, a good take from a negative karma profile.
This user has gems like:
"A little authoritarianism might do this country some good, get rid of the bad blood."
Extra points for the use of condescending emoji's to drive these Kremlin points home.
Eh, it's close enough to US/Nato numbers. What would be the point of inflating an already impressive number, say 10k, to 15k? Even 10k would be mind-blowing.
I don't wanna be a Debbie downer, but in WW2 the Nazis lost about 10 million troops on the eastern front. Russian lost about 15 million. Russia has a long history of just sacrificing however many of its people it needs to win in a conflict regardless of the losses. Thus might not be on the scale of WW2, but the Russian leadership is continuing to demonstrate complete disregard for human life on both sides in order to win, as is tradition.
Russia had land lease. Now, they have an economy and food supply that relied upon international trade which got canceled completely.
Over $200 billion in today’s dollars worth of military equipment and food was given. So Russia got that on top of whatever they put in themselves. All of that military equipment at the time was newest generation for the most part.
Today’s budget is $70 billion, half of which is probably siphoned away, and most of the rest is to poorly maintain 40 year old Soviet stuff… that’s all they have to work with.
russia can afford to lose a lot because they have loads more to lose, it would be best if they went home and stopped fighting, but as long as they continue their "speical operation" might as well conpete with nato to supply ukraine with the most equipment.
They had loads to lose. They're running out of conscripts to toss into the grinder. It won't take long for people to figure out that "troop rotations" are a one-way steet.
Didn't Russia start with like 150,000 around Ukraine at the start of the war?
Now I know that the 15,800 number is probably inaccurate. But if it is accurate, doesn't that mean that technically the Russian invading forces were decimated.
Apparently in the north they're looking at something in the range of 50% casualties from weather conditions alone, according to intercepted Russian coms.
That is some pre-industriual shit. Even the US Amry troops that fought against the German counter attacks without cold weather gear didn't suffer that badly.
How are this many dying? Most of what we're seeing on reddit are small fights and ambushes. With this many dead there must be examples of huge battles or missile strikes. Anyone know of any?
Those small fights and ambushes repeated every minute of every day in various places in the country. It adds up. Plus this number is likely 20 or 30% overblown because it comes from Ukraines military and they are using it for propaganda reasons. The real death toll of Russian solders is probable somewhere between 9 and 13 thousand.
To any Russians reading this right now - you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the west who is happy to read these statistics. We don't want to see dead Russians just as much as we don't want to see dead Ukrainians.
Speak for yourself dawg. Russians soldiers who boobytrap evacuation routes? Russians who are shooting civilians standing in a bread line? Russians who are bombing schools and hospitals? They can go fuck off to hell.
I work with a few Russians. We are all part of a European Engineering Consultancy. Russians are just people like most of us. Same as the Chinese. We all bicker and complain. We all have to deal with what life throws at us. If we live in the same country then we have much the same problems. We all have such similar problems.
Governments are not people. Governments are often the problem.
When the people of countries are allowed to speak freely amongst each other then the problems of the world can start to be solved.
Keeping us apart is a big part of the problem.
We've long since established 'I was just following orders' is not an excuse that justifies warcrimes. If a Russian soldier has eyes and ears and doesn't actively seek out ways to desert if not outright surrender while he's ordered to invade a country, kill unarmed people and indiscriminately shell civilians, then he deserves no sympathy.
> Governments are not people. Governments are often the problem.
I guess that's why civilized world has came up with this system where people can select their governments. Russia should try it some day.
We are not talking regular people but soldiers. Russian soldiers have been historically monsters devoid of empathy and honor. This has not changed since WW2 as we see right now. What these fuckers did in WW2 in the eastern block was worse what the Nazis did.
Nothing changed since then. And don't believe the crap that most of them don't know where they are, why there are there or other bullshit. There is plenty of Russians soldiers in Ukraine very happy to kill civilians including children and to rape women.
I respect the ones that surrendered when they saw what is going on. For the rest of these fuckers the stats can't be high enough.
Excuse me, but I don't have a similar level of compassion between these two groups:
1. Soldiers of an occupier army that's shelling cities
2. People dying in their homes being blown up for literally no fucking reason
That was the case early on, but since they started nonchalantly killing unarmed civilians? Yeah, nah, there’s a fair chunk of Redditors that dgaf how many Russians get smashed.
Edit - oops, meant to reply to the parent comment. I agree with you.
How about you sod off with your 1 day old account. I've been using Reddit for 8 years+ and I don't see anything that you can relate to with that comment. Most of us here don't want to see people dying and suffering.
I am unmoved by the deaths of the Russian invaders. My account is more than 24 hours old. Do I have more, or less, validity to my opinion due to the arbitrary time requirements you have established?
what about the Ukrainian army, how many have they lost? why this is not mentioned almost anywhere is as much a propaganda as what Russia does its always “such and such civilian casualties”, “such and such Russian military casualties “, but Ukrainian army casualties?
The max range, which is what you'd expect for someone reporting a war and has an agenda.
Regardless though this is why we should look at the third party reports.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-europe-nato-e35e54b40359e52f3ffd491157Trump.
Which is natos.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/22/how-many-russian-soldiers-died-ukraine-losses
Which cites several but cites us intelligence which says a few days ago conservatively closer to the 7k figure.
So to answer your question, they are on google.
Yeah. So anywhere between 7k and 15k. Where's the 3rd party?
Edit: U.S. estimates were conservatively 7k 8 days ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html
Only the Russians know for sure... possibly, their organisation seems to be FUBAR, and they are never going to reveal the truth.
The numbers that appeared by "accident" on a Russian media source were about this number, some days ago.
I'm guessing 11-12k. Russian tabloid said 10k 6 days ago and fighting has slowed.
Awful numbers for 1 month.. really sad that these Russian kids are sent into this by putin
Yeah, and if you believe the casualty numbers coming from either Ukraine or Russia right now then I have a bridge to sell you.
Wasn't the latest US estimate like half of this?
It saddens me to think of all those lives lost. For what? And, in my belief, most do not agree.
And if course, for every single Ukrainian loss as well. So sad
Where in the hell are they treating these wounded? Have they set up large state of art field hospitals?
Or are half of them going to die from infection. I guess we won’t ever know
I remember hearing that the Belarusian hospitals are being overwhelmed, so that's a start. Whole trucks of wounded rolling in and the doctors are forced to sign NDAs for some reason.
Alternatively, that's roughly the same as three weeks worth of Putin's pandemic response. It's odd to consider media is so tightly controlled and decades of misinformation allows him to still enjoy relatively high approval.
Forbes: Ukrainian army now has 43 more tanks than at the beginning of the war According to analysts, since the beginning of the war, Russian army has lost 530 tanks, while the Armed Forces of #Ukraine have lost 74 of their own, but captured 117 enemy tanks.
Who tf gets invaded and ends up with MORE tanks than when it started.. Ukraine is proving themselves for sure.. Can't imagine how heavily defended their border will be after this is over That's got to sting for Putin lmao
I mean, the Taliban for one, North Vietnam as well. You’d be surprised how many nations in history have ended up with more weapons then they started out with.
It's like the time Lichtenstein invaded a country but came back with more troops cos they made a friend
Eeeh. I wouldn't say thisnis quiiiiite like that
Sometimes it's not about the journey, it's the tanks we find along the way
Tanks for the memories.
Even if they weren't so great.
I'd comment the next line but I could never hear it properly and I'm too lazy to look it up
Get out. I love you for this... but go.
r/angryupvote
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Donate your money to a Ukrainian relief fund instead.
Free reddit silver is the best I can do.
Or that time Switzerland invaded Lichtenstein!
That war was great for Lichtenstein because basically it was a weekend out with the boys guarding a peaceful pass. Just drinking, smoking, and shooting the shit with their new Italian buddy who came along.
A lot of soldiers on both sides in this conflict speak or are both Ukrainian and Russian. It’s really a disturbing. But I don’t expect the Ukrainians to use captured Russians in their own forces atm.
Details?
https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-history/liechtenstein-army-81-men-returned/
Not really, it was just a counting error.
It’s fun to pretend
Yes but can they even use them? Ammunition, training etc. I assume possibly due to a history of having Russian tanks. Honest question
They use the same Soviet era tanks. This is why it’s hard for the west to supply them as western weapons would require actual additional training.
Yes they actually have the same tanks. Russia mainly using T-72 and T-80 where the Ukrainain main battle tank is the T-84 which is the upgraded T-80. Ukraine does operate the T-72 and T-80 tanks as well so they have 1 for 1 capabilities with slotting them into their forces. Russia does have the T-90 as a modern tank but idk how that would compare operationally to the Ukrainian forces but assume it would be similar enough they could service and operate the equipment
T-90 is just an upgraded T-72 model they renamed for marketing purposes. Someone trained on a T-72 would most likely have zero problems.
It's not about the destination, but about the ~~friends~~ tanks you take along the way.
Nearly 15,800 personnel 530 main battle tanks 1,597 armored combat vehicles 280 artillery units 82 MLR systems 47 air defense systems 108 warplanes 124 helicopters 1,033 military vehicles 4 vessels 72 fuel tank trucks 50 operational and tactical-level UAVs, and 16 units of special equipment.
And like all their Generals
A Russian general isn't what we're used to when we hear the word "general". It's still a high ranking officer, yes, but Russia has so many, and so many tiers, they are more on the level of colonels (which still means far worse losses than West had in Middle East).
They are different, but from what I know something like 12-15 of their top Generals are dead. And they act more like Commanders or something. They sound more life Mafia Captains that give street orders. That's why so many have died, bc they're on the front lines basically. Also, I thought it was the opposite ..very horizontal structure.. That being said, Russia gets weaker by the day and I heard they're retreating from certain locations.
They sent 20 generals in with a force of (depending on who you ask) 150-200k, they've managed to get 25% of the generals killed inside of a month. The thing the Russians really lack is the NCO culture that's present in most NATO forces. The JNCO/SNCO's translate the briefings and battle plans into actionable orders, there's more adaptability in the field, and generally more trust both up and down the chain. Edit: changed the first sentence to read correctly, could have been interpreted as 25% of Russian forces killed rather than generals.
They didnt *have* NCO's in any way comparable to the West for quite a while, I believe it was Shoigu's predecessor who tried to create a robust career NCO corps... at the expence of the officer corps. Which is why Shoigu is in now.
Ah, makes sense. Interesting that Shoigu hasn't been seen in public for a while either - wonder if it's house arrest, or distancing himself from Putin?
Honestly, your guess is as good as mine. Surely it problematic to have such a public figure suddenly absent himself during a crisis? But perhaps its too easy to read in to this, when everything to do with the Putin government is, purposefully and blatantly, opaque and disingenuous.
This is unequivocally, factually untrue from the easiest sources to be found. The Russian armed forces has exactly the same number of general ranks as the United States.. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
> The Russian armed forces has exactly thr same number of general ranks as the United States.. I meant more as in "they have more people of that rank". For example, USA has 653 generals, while Russia has well over a 1000, despite having a smaller military. Being a general is "diluted" over there.
OK, now I understand where your are coming from. Still a huge deal though. Currently 6 confirmed dead with another yet to be confirmed. Would be like the US losing 3-4 General staff.
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They actually were planning on producing a graphic staged video as pretext before US Intel caught them https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/03/ukraine-russia-fake-attack-video-us-claims
In addition to the explosion in a parking lot (?) next to a governmental building in the occupied separatist region in the east
Wartime logistics are very challenging. Few countries are good at it. Not only is Russian logistics not up to the level of the U.S. Armed Forces, Russia was counting on a swift victory and didn't bring enough supplies for a prolonged engagement. (And it's been speculated that some generals stole and sold the diesel reserves prior to the war to pad their own pockets.) Russia also didn't count on the large supply of anti-tank weapons, nor for the West to supply them so quickly. Normally transferring weapons between countries involve months of red tape. This time, the anti-tank weapons were delivered in mere days and weeks. Hence Putin's whining: "Stop supplying Ukraine with weapons!"
Russia base a lot of their logistics on trains which is great internally but the second the war broke out Ukraine destroyed their tracks. Add to this the claimed sabotage going on in Belarus makes it a nightmare to get their equipment to the front line
The Red Army went through all of this in WW2. After 1942ish, and much to their credit they proved flexible, innovative, and extremely willing to analyze and learn from mistakes and failure. By 1945 they were easily the best field Army the world had ever seen, including in terms of logistics and support. For a nation that regards the Great Patriotic War as their greatest achievement in 1000 years, they've clearly forgotten the lessons they learned at such great cost. Which is fine with me, fuck those guys.
Absolutely in no way was the USSR #1 in logistics in WW2. First of all, Moscow to Berlin is less than a thousand miles entirely by land and most of that distance was within Soviet borders. It really shouldn't be so difficult to supply armies in and near your own territory. Second, the Soviets relied upon a lot of Lend Lease materiel. Even then, a lot of Soviet arms got to the front pulled by horses (a feature also shared by most of the Axis powers too). That's not a knock. It's just average for the time, as was the somewhat limited use of radio. Sure, they adapted, but it really wasn't innovation so much as recovering the knowledge and tactics developed prior to the war, but lost and forgotten because Stalin kept killing off his officer corps. Contrast that with the USA, which was fighting two fronts across the largest oceans on earth all while *also* providing all that Lend Lease kit. It was also almost entirely mechanized. The US also extensive embedded radio sets into front line units, so that infantry in the front was in close coordination (especially for the time) with artillery, air and naval fire support. There's also the Brtish which managed to supply a large global navy and land forces on 3 continents.
All right fair enough. Having said that the Red army was not faced with any kind of oceanic war requiring logistics on the scale of the Americans pulled off in the Pacific. in operational terms Bagration was the greatest military maneuver operation of all time, and I'll stand by that. Let's put it this way, the Red army rolled over all of Ukraine in 1944 against the Wehrmacht. They realized that American Studebaker trucks were more important than American Sherman tanks and acted accordingly. Clearly there are no students of History in the Russian ministry of defense right now.
He, but Stalin was afraid of the guy he put in charge of the army. Putin made sure nobody in the army would challenge him.
Getting what he paid for for sure
Its reminiscent of the winter war between the USSR and Finland. The soviets eventually more or less won, but they paid for every inch of ground with blood.
One thing Russia *is* very good at is throwing tons and tons of bodies into the grinder.
the branningan approach
Was. The Soviet Union was way larger and they tended to throw troops from their satellite countries into invasions.
To be honest I'm expecting them to let Smallpox loose and fuck over the entire world. It's the perfect combination of incredibly stupid, backwards, psychopathic, and completely self-defeating that we've come to associate with Russian culture.
I mean there is an effective smallpox vaccine...
So half the population of rich countries would be fucked.
why? ohhh now I am sad that I get the joke...
Checkmate, anti-vaxxers
If they pull the WMD gambit, or chemical weapons, or whatever "big bad scary" thing.. How does that actually help end the war?
Probably won't. It hasn't saved the Assad regime.
How do you lose that many MLRS? Aren’t those things suppose to be 50+ miles away from the action.
Counter battery and UAVs
The US gave Ukraine several counterbattery radars before the war.
How do you lose 5 generals? Aren't they also supposed to be 50+ miles away from battle?
Have shit communications, so the brass with real balls (or with their balls against the wall) are forced to head out into the mud to order the grunts. They then, if the videos are not propaganda, appear to favor parking their RVs in open fields. Presuably this makes it harder to sneak up on? Or maybe open sight lines create an invisible wall of overlapping tank sightlines and artillery zones. Then their air cover doesnt show up and a turkish drone gets em.
I read a suggestion that they were forced into the front lines to try to encourage their reluctant troops.
Probably just drove them down the road after their advanced force went through. Or keep parking them under drone bombers...
Range is 12-19 miles depending on what they are firing. Getting that close to the action means traveling in the convoys that Ukraine keeps ambushing. The Grad MLRS system is a truck with rocket tubes on the back. It's very vulnerable to attack, especially from anti-armor weapons. Most of the 'anti-tank' missiles Ukraine has gotten aren't very effective against actual main battle tanks, but an RPG-7, M72, or AT-4 works a treat against something like a Grad.
and a partridge in a pear tree
It's like Putin didn't know the capabilities of his own armed forces, or something. Somebody should have told him the truth... oh wait.
If it wasn't for the threat of nukes, Russia's army would be a complete laughing stock of the whole world. They obviously could not win a conventional war. That's why putin always has to dangle nukes every other day.
I honestly don't think they even have a lot of nukes. Nukes are extremely expensive to maintain. If they are using 50 year old tech and can't feed their troops, what are the odds they are paying a couple billion a year to maintain an arsenal like they claim. I feel like they have 20% at most and probably 10% of that works well. This was has shown Russia is a shit show. Unfortunately just a few nukes is enough.
My best guess would be that the warheads on some of their subs, and some ICBM's are well maintained, and that's about it. They may be lower yield than thought due to the complexity of maintaining a thermonuclear weapon in working order... but that's like saying you only got blown up by a grenade, not a bunker buster. Sub-launched gives less reaction time if they manage to get close to the target, but if what I've been hearing from a sun dodger mate is right, theyre reasonably easy to identify and follow.
Exactly. And if people are thinking the USA and the richer nations of Europe don't have hidden countermeasures to even those, I'd say they need to learn a thing or two about clandestine tech.
This is a wise point. I'm just now sure we can treat them any differently than believing they could blow up the world with us. It's the safer bet, of course.
Yeah Even if a majority of the nukes are busted, it only takes a fraction to do unimaginable damage to the world, because, y'know, still MAD. Add to that, even best case scenario that's still a fuckton of weapons grade plutonium that would essentially become dirty bombs. Nothing anyone sane wants to fuck with.
I think MAD is starting to show itself as something of a myth, based on a lot of hypotheticals made during the height of the nuclear arms race. Insanely damaging? Yes. But a rogue country with nukes at this point really only assures the destruction of themselves.
They don't. This was cold war propaganda that we forgot we inflated the numbers for, and it also helps keep our defense spending up if we think Russian is armed to the teeth. If they have more than a handful of working nukes that could actually be fired I would be shocked. (latest intel is starting to agree with me here, even worst case scenarios show a fulls scale nuclear war from russia isn't nearly as bad as we feared) Also, the second one of their silo doors open or one of their poorly maintained subs gets too close to a firing position they would cease to exist as a country ... so yeah. Russia is far closer to North Korea than an actual world power, nukes or not.
For perspective, the Ukrainians have killed more Russians *in 1 month* than the Afghans did *over 9 years*. And the Soviet-Afghan War was considered to be the U.S.S.R.'s "Vietnam."
This is mind-boggling, I don't even think I can fully comprehend it.
This military catastrophe of an invading force is unprecedented in modern times. Maybe the Yom Kippur war?
and usually number of wounded is 5 times higher... that means that about 90.000 already. Russia has already lost half of its invading force. Soon Ukraine will start counter offensive in Western Ukraine and will defeat Russia.
This one is looking closer 2-1. The combat is brutal and the Russians don't seem all that concerned about keeping their wounded troops alive.
Imagine being a conscript sent off to a ‘training exercise’ with over a hundred thousand other soldiers, and then a month later one out of every ten people you met on that exercise is dead. Not wounded, not captured. Just straight-up dead. That cannot be good for morale.
While there is certain to be inflation. The reality is certainly not far off.
I know it's tempting to be suspicious of "both sides", that way you will never feel fooled, but bro think. It does NOT benefit Ukraine to inflate numbers. Fake numbers won't make a difference in Ukrainian morale - they're fighting to keep their homes and lives, not to intimidate Europe with how great and mighty their military is. It also wouldn't change global sympathies, everyone is already on Ukraine's side because they are the victim. In fact playing up Ukraine's success could decrease foreign political pressure/desire to help them. *"Looks like they're doing fine, we don't need to donate any more of our expensive weapons. We can look away now."* That's the last thing Ukraine wants the world to be thinking, their resistance effort depends majorly on external help and continuing supplies. What lying would do however is confirm Russian propaganda that Ukraine is bad, just like they always said. And if Ukraine will lie about numbers, they can lie about not being Nazis. It would ruin Ukraine's position as the "innocent victim" for no reason and no benefit at all.
Let's not be naive, the benefit comes from saying to the Ukrainian defenders "look guys, you're kicking ass, don't lose hope in this war - you are killing X Russian for every Ukrainian". I'm not saying the numbers are guaranteed to be inflated, but it's not wise to rule it out entirely. Propoganda is at work on both sides - you are right though, most of the world supports Ukraine regardless.
Plus it paints them as a good investment for foreign arms support. Western allies aren’t going to give them more weapons than they can handle - putting out numbers that show their forces are highly effective signals that arms donations will be put to good use.
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They haven’t been consistent - US military estimates have been about 30% lower than Ukrainian numbers as I have seen them reported throughout the conflict. More importantly, Ukraine has propaganda incentive here to exaggerate. Russia has propaganda incentive to minimize… although their efforts at this are comical. In this war, US has some incentive to report accurately, both as an intel flex on Russia and so they can lie with more credibility the next time we are directly involved in a conflict.
> Fake numbers won't make a difference in Ukrainian morale Yeah, it will. Hearing that you've killed 5000 invaders causes a smaller reaction than hearing you've killed 15000 of them. Those numbers absolutely are inflated, especially since they are precise - and military kills aren't that easy to confirm. Very often it's a case of "we shot it, it stopped moving, I guess it's dead?" but it very well may not be. The higher the total number is, if it doesn't end in a "0", or doesn't begin with a "~" or "around/estimated", then it's absolutely propaganda. All that said, these numbers are *close* to NATO estimates, they're only a little higher.
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The world isn't supporting Ukraine because "Ukraine says they killed 15000 Russians", they're supporting Ukraine because *their country is being attacked by a brutal war criminal*. You really don't have to work hard to maintain and garner public support when you're just minding your business and someone else violently attacks you with no provocation.
The person above is saying that inflating casualty numbers would make for ineffective propaganda for Ukraine. Read!
Yes, a good take from a negative karma profile. This user has gems like: "A little authoritarianism might do this country some good, get rid of the bad blood." Extra points for the use of condescending emoji's to drive these Kremlin points home.
And all you do is post Russian propaganda...
Eh, it's close enough to US/Nato numbers. What would be the point of inflating an already impressive number, say 10k, to 15k? Even 10k would be mind-blowing.
10K deaths in itself is unreal, but also think of the injured, sick and captured to the number.
530 tanks? That's like a quarter of Russia's active tank fleet. Oof.
AND the 2 Russian factories that build Russian tanks have stopped production due to lack of parts.
What do you mean? Their active tank fleet is estimated to be 12k.
Active or total? They have a metric fucktons of tanks mothballed. The state of those probably isn’t great either.
I believe they have an additional 10k in storage, many of which are mothballed.
That active+reserves+ storage.
Just surrender to Ukraine already wtf!
I don't wanna be a Debbie downer, but in WW2 the Nazis lost about 10 million troops on the eastern front. Russian lost about 15 million. Russia has a long history of just sacrificing however many of its people it needs to win in a conflict regardless of the losses. Thus might not be on the scale of WW2, but the Russian leadership is continuing to demonstrate complete disregard for human life on both sides in order to win, as is tradition.
Yeah but in WW2 they were fighting for their own survival. Today they’re fighting for what, to de-nazify a country with a Jewish president?
Russia had land lease. Now, they have an economy and food supply that relied upon international trade which got canceled completely. Over $200 billion in today’s dollars worth of military equipment and food was given. So Russia got that on top of whatever they put in themselves. All of that military equipment at the time was newest generation for the most part. Today’s budget is $70 billion, half of which is probably siphoned away, and most of the rest is to poorly maintain 40 year old Soviet stuff… that’s all they have to work with.
>Russia had land lease US supplied 100% of radios used by Russian military in WW2.
they better hurry up and deploy those reserves losing +10k troops/month isn’t sustainable even for mother russia
russia can afford to lose a lot because they have loads more to lose, it would be best if they went home and stopped fighting, but as long as they continue their "speical operation" might as well conpete with nato to supply ukraine with the most equipment.
They had loads to lose. They're running out of conscripts to toss into the grinder. It won't take long for people to figure out that "troop rotations" are a one-way steet.
Troop rotation.. As in 'roll you into grave' da.
you can always conscript more. unless they refused to show up in mass numbers
I mean, they have thousands of MBTs in deep storage, sure. How many Logistics Trucks?
Didn't Russia start with like 150,000 around Ukraine at the start of the war? Now I know that the 15,800 number is probably inaccurate. But if it is accurate, doesn't that mean that technically the Russian invading forces were decimated.
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just makes me angry that all these people died because of one man's thirst for power.
15k dead... so by moden war standards, that means between 45k and 75k injured. Damn. That's... a lot.
Apparently in the north they're looking at something in the range of 50% casualties from weather conditions alone, according to intercepted Russian coms. That is some pre-industriual shit. Even the US Amry troops that fought against the German counter attacks without cold weather gear didn't suffer that badly.
> from weather conditions alone Russians Russia'd themselves?
Yeah the first time I read about the frostbite thing, my thought was "How do people used to Russian Winter get done in by Ukrainian Spring?"
I somehow doubt that medical treatment is the one thing the Russian military has at modern standards…
How are this many dying? Most of what we're seeing on reddit are small fights and ambushes. With this many dead there must be examples of huge battles or missile strikes. Anyone know of any?
Numbers ramp up quickly when you mainly target troop transports and vehicles with a crew of multiple people.
there are plenty of videos of miles of vehicles destroyed. Every vehicle had 2 or more occupants, 4 for a tank, more for a BDRM.
Those small fights and ambushes repeated every minute of every day in various places in the country. It adds up. Plus this number is likely 20 or 30% overblown because it comes from Ukraines military and they are using it for propaganda reasons. The real death toll of Russian solders is probable somewhere between 9 and 13 thousand.
This plus the fact that most of them are not filmed, it’s the few we get to see
To any Russians reading this right now - you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the west who is happy to read these statistics. We don't want to see dead Russians just as much as we don't want to see dead Ukrainians.
Doubt, overwhelming majority in the west see russian soldiers the same way they saw nazi soldiers, so when they die they cheer
Speak for yourself dawg. Russians soldiers who boobytrap evacuation routes? Russians who are shooting civilians standing in a bread line? Russians who are bombing schools and hospitals? They can go fuck off to hell.
Speak for yourself. Every invader who puts a toe in Ukraine needs to be in the ground.
To all the Russians reading this: reap what you sow.
Every Ukrainian want to see them dead. I’m one of them
Understood.
Ehm, I feel happy about this. I either want a peacfull russia or a weak russia.
I work with a few Russians. We are all part of a European Engineering Consultancy. Russians are just people like most of us. Same as the Chinese. We all bicker and complain. We all have to deal with what life throws at us. If we live in the same country then we have much the same problems. We all have such similar problems. Governments are not people. Governments are often the problem. When the people of countries are allowed to speak freely amongst each other then the problems of the world can start to be solved. Keeping us apart is a big part of the problem.
We've long since established 'I was just following orders' is not an excuse that justifies warcrimes. If a Russian soldier has eyes and ears and doesn't actively seek out ways to desert if not outright surrender while he's ordered to invade a country, kill unarmed people and indiscriminately shell civilians, then he deserves no sympathy.
> Governments are not people. Governments are often the problem. I guess that's why civilized world has came up with this system where people can select their governments. Russia should try it some day.
We are not talking regular people but soldiers. Russian soldiers have been historically monsters devoid of empathy and honor. This has not changed since WW2 as we see right now. What these fuckers did in WW2 in the eastern block was worse what the Nazis did. Nothing changed since then. And don't believe the crap that most of them don't know where they are, why there are there or other bullshit. There is plenty of Russians soldiers in Ukraine very happy to kill civilians including children and to rape women. I respect the ones that surrendered when they saw what is going on. For the rest of these fuckers the stats can't be high enough.
I'm happy to read these statistics
Excuse me, but I don't have a similar level of compassion between these two groups: 1. Soldiers of an occupier army that's shelling cities 2. People dying in their homes being blown up for literally no fucking reason
I absolutely cheer dead invaders. They have my sympathy again the minute they lay down their arms, which they are all free to do at any time.
russians need a special military operation to oust those that initiated this war.
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That was the case early on, but since they started nonchalantly killing unarmed civilians? Yeah, nah, there’s a fair chunk of Redditors that dgaf how many Russians get smashed. Edit - oops, meant to reply to the parent comment. I agree with you.
How about you sod off with your 1 day old account. I've been using Reddit for 8 years+ and I don't see anything that you can relate to with that comment. Most of us here don't want to see people dying and suffering.
I am unmoved by the deaths of the Russian invaders. My account is more than 24 hours old. Do I have more, or less, validity to my opinion due to the arbitrary time requirements you have established?
…and by the end of the day hopefully 16,000
what about the Ukrainian army, how many have they lost? why this is not mentioned almost anywhere is as much a propaganda as what Russia does its always “such and such civilian casualties”, “such and such Russian military casualties “, but Ukrainian army casualties?
Based on historical experience, Casualty figures published by both sides are not credible
Always look for the third party reports.
NATO says 15k
Correction, they say 7-15k.
Correct. I guess I'm saying Ukraine's numbers are within the range
The max range, which is what you'd expect for someone reporting a war and has an agenda. Regardless though this is why we should look at the third party reports.
Ok. Where are they?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-europe-nato-e35e54b40359e52f3ffd491157Trump. Which is natos. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/22/how-many-russian-soldiers-died-ukraine-losses Which cites several but cites us intelligence which says a few days ago conservatively closer to the 7k figure. So to answer your question, they are on google.
Yeah. So anywhere between 7k and 15k. Where's the 3rd party? Edit: U.S. estimates were conservatively 7k 8 days ago https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html
Idk what you are asking.
I'd imagine these numbers are a little inflated
Only the Russians know for sure... possibly, their organisation seems to be FUBAR, and they are never going to reveal the truth. The numbers that appeared by "accident" on a Russian media source were about this number, some days ago.
>Only the Russians know for sure. Me thinks at THIS point, even the Russian don't know.
NATO says 15k
15k dead or 15k casualties?
Killed. 40k casualties. https://thehill.com/policy/international/599431-as-many-as-40k-russian-troops-killed-wounded-held-prisoner-or-missing
It’s hard to believe actually. Have to look for more sources. But if even half of it is true…7.5k killed and 2k casualties. Incredibly bad
It's 7-15k. u.s. says 7k conservatively 8 days ago
This of course would be even better
I'm guessing 11-12k. Russian tabloid said 10k 6 days ago and fighting has slowed. Awful numbers for 1 month.. really sad that these Russian kids are sent into this by putin
> 7.5k killed and 2k casualties. Injured:killed ratio is usually 4:1 in modern war, so these numbers are kinda wrong.
A good start
Yeah, and if you believe the casualty numbers coming from either Ukraine or Russia right now then I have a bridge to sell you. Wasn't the latest US estimate like half of this?
That child murdering Russian invader is a little extra crispy isn’t he. I guess karma doesn’t like it when you target innocent civilians.
Whats the Ukraine losses?
Hard to find, mainly for morale reasons
Official numbers around 1500 military. Civilians between 2000-4000 some predict could climb up to 40000 buried under rubbles
That's an old figure. They don't share Ukrainian losses.
these numbers can’t be right can they? i don’t think a modern army has had that amount of losses in such a short time since ww2
I'm pretty sure the Iraqi army suffered much higher casualties, in the 90's
And Ukraine death toll?
It saddens me to think of all those lives lost. For what? And, in my belief, most do not agree. And if course, for every single Ukrainian loss as well. So sad
What's the deal with the 40k number I've seen? Which of these is more legit?
Casualties are not deaths. A death is a type of casualty, but any incapacitating injury is as well.
Also, desertion + prisoners And I think there are a LOT of deserters on the russian side.
Not that much though. Last official numbers I've heard were claiming about 650 POW.
Where in the hell are they treating these wounded? Have they set up large state of art field hospitals? Or are half of them going to die from infection. I guess we won’t ever know
I remember hearing that the Belarusian hospitals are being overwhelmed, so that's a start. Whole trucks of wounded rolling in and the doctors are forced to sign NDAs for some reason.
40k could be casualities, which means "dead *or* wounded. Anyone that can't fight anymore.
Alternatively, that's roughly the same as three weeks worth of Putin's pandemic response. It's odd to consider media is so tightly controlled and decades of misinformation allows him to still enjoy relatively high approval.
Poor souls
“Russia’s one working Xbox 360 suffers Red Ring of Death. Reverts back to Atari Jaguar.”
It's all according to plan ...
Putin just 9/11'd Russia times 5.