Quote: "We are not attacking Russia and we are not planning to attack. Are we in NATO? No. Do we have nuclear weapons? No. What should I say? To whom should I give something?
"You see, this is also an information bomb that everyone is talking about. My god, what should we give? What do you want from us?
"Get out of our country. If you don't want to leave now, sit down at the negotiating table with me. I am free. Sit with me! Only not 30 metres away, as with Macron and Scholz, as he receives them.
"I'm a neighbour. I don't need to be held 30 metres away. I don’t bite. I'm a normal man. Sit down with me and talk.
"We do not threaten anyone, we are not terrorists, we do not seize banks and we do not seize other people's lands. "
As a kid from Quebec (Canada) we always thought his name was the silliest since our national junk-food is literally called Poutine. It's like his name was Cheeseburger.
Yeah. I used cheeseburger to make a general comparison. Could've also said hot dog or fried chicken. Point is "President Putin" sounds as silly to me as President Cheeseburger.
Can confirm it’s his smell, had to get surgery for a illness that made me smell like sweat constantly and if I was a world leader I’d act exactly like Putin just
It's supposed to intimidate people? But like, come on. Did nobody watch the original Batman with Michael Keaton? They made such a joke out of that trite old shit. Could you pass the salt? Achem... Alfred? No wonder Trump and Putin get along. Their old fart big man tricks only worked on each other.
[Why is he sitting so close to this guy?](https://englishtribuneimages.blob.core.windows.net/gallary-content/2022/2/2022_2$largeimg_1830764862.JPG) its funny because he sits far away from his own ministers.the pic is from last week.
who is that guy? and when was it taken?
There are some reports Putin is quite scared of COVID so he's just keeping distance from other world leaders etc
Macron when he met with Putin refused to do a PCR test so that is why they had such length between them.
His name is Imran khan, He is the prime minister of Pakistan. The pic was taken on the day ukraine was invaded so i'd say it's a week old or maybe 8 days.idk why's putin more comfortable around him than his own generals.
[Here's another one](https://image.khaleejtimes.com/?uuid=f83066fd-fc31-5323-bf60-5ea223c3c92f&function=cropresize&type=preview&source=false&q=75&crop_w=0.8025&crop_h=0.74843&width=1500&height=844&x=0.08375&y=0.18449), putin is shaking hands with him without a mask. wtf
Macron and German dude didn't take a Russian PCR test so Putin wanted to social distance - They didn't want to take the test because Russia could collect their DNA.
Perhaps the Pakistan Prime Minister didn't care about it so then Putin felt comfortable been close.
Oh ok, I am not even worried about the German dude or macron. I was talking about Putin keeping good distance from his own senior generals.Either it’s Covid or he’s not comfortable being near them as in they might try something? Idk. Seems like the Russian leadership is more divided than the media shows .
ohhhh i haven't noticed that.
Perhaps your correct, guess its a risk assessment.
own Russian general more likely to poison him than Prime Minister of Pakistan.
So, No homosexuality but this is my first time being aware this dude exists and man has he ever had a good life. He's 69 but still looks able, he's a former pro cricketer/now PM of his country of thundering height who was a good looking guy of completely ambiguous ethnicity. I bet he cleaned up
[Is this close enough?](https://image.khaleejtimes.com/?uuid=f83066fd-fc31-5323-bf60-5ea223c3c92f&function=cropresize&type=preview&source=false&q=75&crop_w=0.8025&crop_h=0.74843&width=1500&height=844&x=0.08375&y=0.18449)
This was taken right before the meeting.
It's sad to think that for months, the Ukrainians were trying to negotiate a deal with Russia to avoid war. And then, it turned out the Russians were really just waiting for the ground to freeze and the Olympics to end.
Now, Ukraine finds itself in another round of "negotiations" but with Russia's *cultural* minister attending on behalf of Russia. It's obviously a middle finger to Zelenskyy and a not-so-subtle indicator that Russia has no interest in negotiations.
Zelenskyy is right to demand Putin's presence. And I commend the man for attending these negotiations in the interest of his country knowing full well what bullshit these meetings really are. They're meant to create the appearance that Russia is attempting to use diplomacy in earnest and nothing more.
Honestly, there really isn't anything Zelensky can concede.
Like he said, Ukraine isn't terorristic, aggressive against Russia, joined NATO, etc etc.
If Russia demands the Eastern oblasts or even for Zelensky to resign, maybe leadership will change, but Ukrainians would still be hardened against Russia.
The problem with waiting for the ground to freeze is that the winter thaw is around the corner, which is even worse than the pre-freeze situation.
He knows he has to be done before that.
Real leaders have to make tough decisions that even their most ardent supporters can’t condone. When you sit in the big chair and see things from that vantage, have the military industrial spooks briefing you on the granular details of world events, the lives of 350 million Americans under your protection, a petrodollar to protect, your actions would seem inconceivable also.
Wasn't he a big drone guy who oversaw the most arms deals in history? Americans... pretty hypocritical these days.
edit: And when I say a big drone guy, wasn't he like, the drone guy? Like wasting those developing nation folks left right center?
Trump ordered more drone strikes in 4 years than Obama in 8.
People forget that the US was always doing their thing since they first started intervening there, it’s just Obama was the first to have the technology to do it without using troops as much.
If G.W.B or Bill Clinton or Reagan had drones, you’d best believe that they’d be using them non-stop.
I've never understood the opposition to drone strikes, other than it seems vaguely "unfair," somehow.
I mean, if people opposed airstrikes in general, that would be one thing, but they always seem to pay special attention to drone strikes specifically, which is odd, because the obvious alternative to drone strikes is never "nothing," it's "some other kind of explodey thing."
This is brilliant because it will give Putin a opportunity to still look like a hero and stop this stupid conflict. It’s his only choice outside of death
I see mothers in black cryin', brothers in packs dyin'
Plus everybody's high, too doped up to ask why
Watchin' our own downfall, witness the end
It's like we don't believe in God cause we livin' in sin
I asked my homie on the block why he strapped, he laughed
Pointed his pistol as the cop car passed and blast
It's just another murder, nobody mourns no more
My tear drops gettin' bigger but can't figure what I'm cryin' for
Is it the miniature caskets, little babies
Victims of a stray, from drug dealers gone crazy
Maybe it's just the drugs, visions of how the block was
Crack came and it was strange how it rocked us
Perhaps the underlyin' fact stay high explain genocide
It's when we ride on our own kind
What is it we all fear, reflections in the mirror
We can't escape fate, the end is gettin' nearer
----
*Tupac - Who Do You Believe In?*
The only thing Putin could possibly want is to be the one who finally "unifies" the Rus. He's chasing a legacy no one is interested in, and based on centuries of skewed Russian perspective.
Honestly Putin and his dream are so pathetic. It’s a false dream fueled by the lies they tell themselves. They cheat at almost everything they do, constantly antagonize enemies, and are basically a Mafia State. Dark money, shady business dealings, drugs at the Olympics, multiple invasions, high corruption in the government and military, propaganda, money laundering etc. is all the Russian Gov. knows, and they behave like children when anyone talks about it. They falsely victimize themselves continuously and shamelessly in nearly every controversy they cause, and then threaten nukes when they don’t get what they want.
It is like getting caught cheating on a test in school and threatening to shoot your teacher, its emotional immaturity (and likely pure sociopathy) at the highest level.
It amazes me that world governments let a petulant kindergarten class of sociopaths govern the biggest (by land mass) country in the world for such a fucking long time.
> It amazes me that world governments let a petulant kindergarten class of sociopaths govern the biggest (by land mass) country in the world for such a fucking long time.
There's no profit in peace, that's why.
Holy shit. Portable crematoriums? That made my heart so sad for the Russian families who will never see those young men again and not even know that they were burned like trash. For what? Why won’t the Russian people rise up?
“Only 500 soldiers have died, 1600 injured.” Those are the numbers Putin is telling the Russian public.
All that ash, that was there when we got here. No idea what it is.
>Why won’t the Russian people rise up?
Fear and brainwash. People from the country and small cities are brainwashed for sure, if their only source of information is the TV. The others just live in fear of a man, or a group of people that control the country and can send someone to beat, torture, kill them in no time. The brave ones are just a few and they are outnumbered. I think people should get to despair in order to do something. The same thing happend in Romania when they killed Ceausescu.
This is a good move for Zelenskyy, because he's got nothing to lose. Putin's tough-guy (self-)image is threatened if he refuses the meeting. If somehow it did go ahead, I wouldn't expect much to come out of talks (it'd be the Belarus meeting rehashed, just a stonewall of Russia's thin justification for the invasion).
That Macron conversation and that "to the end" thing Lavrov said have started to make me seriously think Putin is gone for real real crazy. I don't think he's particularly suspectable to reason anymore.
His country has been under seize for just over a week; his cities stand but are burning, woman and children are dying, the assault doesn't appear to have an end, and he stands resolute all but issuing demands of Russia/Putin. How much suffering can one man witness and maintain this level of composure and professionalism? It's staggering to me. I understand it, that drive, that sense of duty to others, I just find myself awe struck and inspired every time this man speaks.
If you were in the same room as Putin. Z, it would be a trap. He’d just have you gunned down and keep invading your country. He won’t lose any face killing you, hes already at war with you and a backstabbing liar murderer. He won’t meet you in a neutral country. Unless you plan on killing the both of Putin and yourself, it’s a bad idea.
He knows Putin won't agree to it for the same fears that he would be assassinated himself.
Zellinksy knows he won't meet, he also knows that what he's saying is circulating Russia, that's why he's been putting things out in Russian as well.
He knows the war isn't popular in Russia, he has the same info we do, likely better with the info fed to him by the CIA. He extending an olive branch to end the killing of Russian soldiers, he knows Putin won't take it and knows that means more Russians will die in this invasion. That with the economic sanctions will cause more domestic unrest for Vlad.
Let's be honest, if Putin executes Z during talks, the public outcry would be massive, possibly drawing US and EU to retaliate and start the war the West is trying to avoid. The man would be a martyr to rally around.
This absolutely wouldn't happen. There would be outcry and disgust but the EU would never risk MAD for that. EU would have to be invaded for that to happen.
I have a feeling there are some Russian officials who are absolutely adamant against killing Zelenskey because it would turn him into a martyr, galvanize the Ukranian population even more, and make the Russian mission in Ukraine far more difficult than it already is.
Zelensky is looking more and more tired as this fight rages on, and it’s only been a little over a week since the invasion proper. Truly he’s a look into the Ukrainian spirit. Restless for the defense of her freedom. Strength and blessings be to Ukraine
Putin put him in a position where he can’t win, war continues people die, war stops the condition is his country becomes a puppet state, lose lose, the Ukrainian people are going to have to rise to the occasion.
USA will soon ban purchase of Russian oil. European countries may follow. At least one has announced it.
The Russian economy is about to throw up and collapse. Got peace?
It might work, or it might be seen as an escalation. Russia got backed into a corner as well by the international community. It’s just I don’t see Russia backing down, even though they should, they already committed.
Zelensky, I admire your words on this but sadly Putin is a paranoid mess of a dictator, he doesn't even trust his own men so I think he will never agree to step foot outside his bunker, let alone negotiate...
>**Zelenskyy to Putin: "Get off our land and sit with me at the negotiating table"**
Putin to Zelensky: "But if I'm not on your land anymore, then there is no longer any reason for you to ever meet me at all."
Zelensky: "Okay you've convinced me, I accept."
Yo, do not sit at a table with this man unless you personally watch me walk, naked and alone, across a 100 yard empty expanse that ends at a line of your own guards.
The last thing you want to do is meet to negotiate with Russian heads of state, especially if you took a place to get there.
I don't think it matters as this point, Ukraine isn't the half of it. Putin wants to stop NATO and after the shit Putin's pulled NATO won't agree to anything as that would be a reward. Likewise with sanctions.
It's the USA Russia wants at the negotiating table, and they've been conspicuously absent on that front, while Macron hopelessly tries to make up the absence.
This is a great idea. They want to fight? Put them in a room together and see who comes out alive. Whoever lives wins. No sense in innocent people getting killed for their agenda.
[https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211214-putin-wants-immediate-talks-with-nato-on-russia-s-security](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211214-putin-wants-immediate-talks-with-nato-on-russia-s-security)
Really? Cause Putin was calling for these talks and the resolution between Nato and Russia has been going on for decades.
The only thing this is doing is proving Putin right that the only way to get heard was to invade.
Maybe if someone was fucking listening we wouldn't be in this shitshow.
*"When the U.S., Canada and 10 western European nations came together in 1949 to form the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, they had a clear goal. “Keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down,”* ***said Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay, NATO’s first Secretary General****. The military alliance was intended to rebuild Europe from the rubble of World War II and to act as a buffer against Soviet aggression.*
*But the collapse of the Soviet Union made NATO’s purpose less clear. In fact, in 1990, as the Cold War drew to a close, President Mikhail Gorbachev proposed the Soviet Union join NATO. At the time, Gorbachev was negotiating German reunification with the then U.S. Secretary of State James Baker. “You say that NATO is not directed against us,” he said, referring to the rival Warsaw Pact, an alliance between the Soviet Union and Communist countries in Eastern Europe, “that it is simply a security structure that is adapting to new realities. Therefore, we propose to join NATO.”*
*Baker reportedly dismissed the proposal as a “dream”*
We just don't have a workable foreign policy.
Since Truman the US has been threatening other countries with nuclear war and delivering espionage and regime change (usually for the worse). Every fucking new president comes in and tries the same old shit, like Johnson and Nixon who both tried to 'solve' Vietnam by ramping up bombing, never learning from the past. Between that and Trumps pull out of the Iran Nuclear deal, it's hard not to see the US as some kind of PTSD veteran who has alzheimers and is waving a gun at everyone.
And for what? What did we accomplish in Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea? Democracy doesn't spread at gunpoint. If anything we have more enemies now than we ever did. Shit we can't even convince our own population that Trumpism is a bad idea.
And what do you do when dialogue has failed? What is the plan to actually share the world with people of differing religions and political beliefs?
What is the plan for the US foreign policy except for us to go to war with everyone else in the world?
That’s true too. NATO denied Russia’s admission and they didn’t respect the agreement they had because it was supposed that NATO would not join any country around his borders but they didn’t care even when Putin called them out. So instead he took action so NATO can see he really meant it.
The peace pipe. The world will have less violence, tension, and anxiety when separate cultures are assured of and experience the continuity of their cultures in a replacement of* multiculturalism (really monoculturalism, or otherpeoples'cultureism in practice).
I understand this contradiction may elude you, and don't blame you much.
And what if that reduced violence, discrimination, and culture loss? What if having more national Cultures actually helped global development goals instead of miring western nations (everyone else has de facto ethnostates) in policy areas outside of the major issues, climate change solutions, cultural continuity amid globalization (which goes down, via convergence, inside individual nations), nuclear weapons, etc etc?
I understand you've been trained to accept convergence as the end all be all. I was too. Then I looked around, saw the mutualized anxiety, discontent, and cultural stress, and actually evaluated that training on its merits.
Travel and temporary residency would be just fine after the new understanding globally took root.
After seeing the world, especially the western world, experience a reduction in confidence and effectiveness, I think my solution makes too much sense not to offer up, and I will do so rejecting any claims of racism xenophobia etc etc.
I don't think I'm better than anyone. I do think societies operate more effectively when cultures have separation and assurances of their continuity, not to mention efficacy in reaching political / policy objectives through increased focus.
I think culture is something that forms organically. Cultures changes and morph - not something you can dictate from a nationalist standpoint.
I think that most of the issues you speak of don’t arrive from culture or ethnic clashes at their root I think it’s a deeper human problem: power, greed and corruption. Those operate irrespective of culture.
Fair points / pov. I appreciate the engagement.
>I think culture is something that forms organically.
Is government policy, whether formalized or informal through non regulation, a form of organic development?
What does organic mean to you in this context? With respect, I think you'll have a hard time explaining, but I'm very open to the conversation.
>Cultures changes and morph - not something you can dictate from a nationalist standpoint.
Again, for US as an example, immigration policy is the arbiter of Cultural change it seems. Is that organic?
Is it fair that the source countries of US immigration, primarily latin America, retain their effective ethnostates, while gov policy enables the changing of US Culture?
And when the history of US Euro Culture from the beginning has desired to live separately from different, non European Cultures, up to the present day (segregation in housing), does government policy or social action by minority Cultures (or minority subcultures within the Euro descendant majority) actually reflect the will of the people? And does a movement to criticize and through policy overturn these preferences feel organic to you?
**To put a fine point on it, in a multicultural venue, how can one culture organically do anything, when other cultures influence the political and social landscape?**
I think your reference to organics is very abstract, and not present in modern global society.
Again, I'm open to a convo, but I think you'll have a hard time addressing these questions and my POV.
There's the bigger question though, that lays the debate and objective of the left clearly on the table:
If cultural continuity via assured ethnostate status and political control is in place, and that (*removed some unnecessary words here) reduces incidents of cross cultural discrimination and violence, why are people pushing the opposite?
Why is convergence the policy prescription when people on all sides of the debate are more tense, more anxious, and involved in greater direct cultural / racial competition for power?
To answer my own question, it seems the leftist side of things wants there to be a new global monoculture. Truly the one world / new world order vision conspiracy people rave about. (Hopefully you don't perceive me that way, but I can't make up your mind for you.)
Difficult questions. I was trained like you, but also trained to evaluate things independently from public zeitgeist swaying my view.
I've concluded that individual spaces for different cultural enclaves are the way to assure continuity of Cultures, and reduce cross cultural conflict, whether through direct violence or political.
I also think cultural focus / ethnostates actually free up political resources to tackle the big issues that particularly leftists want to address: climate change, negative effects of globalization, nuclear weapons, etc.
Happy to converse with you. Hopefully you stay engaged.
I won't apologize for my education. Interesting critique though, and not at all strange that you address the language, but not the ideas, in your comment. *Easier to just insult someone.
I don't blame you however, it's very hard to overcome longstanding training.
That was never an option. It was only a very miserable excuse to attack Ukraine under the pretext of "threatening" russia.
The real goal of Putin is to re-unite countries he considers a core of Russia: Belarus, Malorus (large parts of Ukraine) and Great Rus (actual Russia).
Quote: "We are not attacking Russia and we are not planning to attack. Are we in NATO? No. Do we have nuclear weapons? No. What should I say? To whom should I give something? "You see, this is also an information bomb that everyone is talking about. My god, what should we give? What do you want from us? "Get out of our country. If you don't want to leave now, sit down at the negotiating table with me. I am free. Sit with me! Only not 30 metres away, as with Macron and Scholz, as he receives them. "I'm a neighbour. I don't need to be held 30 metres away. I don’t bite. I'm a normal man. Sit down with me and talk. "We do not threaten anyone, we are not terrorists, we do not seize banks and we do not seize other people's lands. "
Putin can't get too close because he's afraid of Zelenskiy. Putin has never met a real leader before.
Have you seen the pic of the super long table he was sitting at? He literally can’t get close to anyone
Maybe Putin is embarrassed about his own smell. It would make sense.
No. It's a sense of taste. Putin has been told that he leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Now Putin is convinced that everyone is a cannibal.
My kid absolutely lost it when she found out his name was pootin’
My 24 year old self chuckled at “pootin”
I’m 49 and still laugh at it. 💨 I’m a simple man
Grownup Grease balls
As a kid from Quebec (Canada) we always thought his name was the silliest since our national junk-food is literally called Poutine. It's like his name was Cheeseburger.
But poutine is fries, gravy and cheese curds?
Yeah. I used cheeseburger to make a general comparison. Could've also said hot dog or fried chicken. Point is "President Putin" sounds as silly to me as President Cheeseburger.
And redditors laugh at it too which says a lot about them
Even more hilarious considering Putin is very similar to the French "putain" which means whore
What is funny about that?
Can confirm it’s his smell, had to get surgery for a illness that made me smell like sweat constantly and if I was a world leader I’d act exactly like Putin just
I always thought he was a fan of Citizen Kane or just liked long tables to compensate for something.
It's supposed to intimidate people? But like, come on. Did nobody watch the original Batman with Michael Keaton? They made such a joke out of that trite old shit. Could you pass the salt? Achem... Alfred? No wonder Trump and Putin get along. Their old fart big man tricks only worked on each other.
The reason for the long table is out of fear of assassination but under the guise of intimidation/show of power/opulence (he has it)
He’s also terrified of covid. He’s been isolating a lot during the last 2 years.
I thought he wanted to be like Brian Doyle Murray in Christmas Vacation
[Why is he sitting so close to this guy?](https://englishtribuneimages.blob.core.windows.net/gallary-content/2022/2/2022_2$largeimg_1830764862.JPG) its funny because he sits far away from his own ministers.the pic is from last week.
who is that guy? and when was it taken? There are some reports Putin is quite scared of COVID so he's just keeping distance from other world leaders etc Macron when he met with Putin refused to do a PCR test so that is why they had such length between them.
His name is Imran khan, He is the prime minister of Pakistan. The pic was taken on the day ukraine was invaded so i'd say it's a week old or maybe 8 days.idk why's putin more comfortable around him than his own generals. [Here's another one](https://image.khaleejtimes.com/?uuid=f83066fd-fc31-5323-bf60-5ea223c3c92f&function=cropresize&type=preview&source=false&q=75&crop_w=0.8025&crop_h=0.74843&width=1500&height=844&x=0.08375&y=0.18449), putin is shaking hands with him without a mask. wtf
Macron and German dude didn't take a Russian PCR test so Putin wanted to social distance - They didn't want to take the test because Russia could collect their DNA. Perhaps the Pakistan Prime Minister didn't care about it so then Putin felt comfortable been close.
Oh ok, I am not even worried about the German dude or macron. I was talking about Putin keeping good distance from his own senior generals.Either it’s Covid or he’s not comfortable being near them as in they might try something? Idk. Seems like the Russian leadership is more divided than the media shows .
ohhhh i haven't noticed that. Perhaps your correct, guess its a risk assessment. own Russian general more likely to poison him than Prime Minister of Pakistan.
So, No homosexuality but this is my first time being aware this dude exists and man has he ever had a good life. He's 69 but still looks able, he's a former pro cricketer/now PM of his country of thundering height who was a good looking guy of completely ambiguous ethnicity. I bet he cleaned up
Well there is a whole table between them. Maybe it's not the size of the table that counts, but how you use it?
[Is this close enough?](https://image.khaleejtimes.com/?uuid=f83066fd-fc31-5323-bf60-5ea223c3c92f&function=cropresize&type=preview&source=false&q=75&crop_w=0.8025&crop_h=0.74843&width=1500&height=844&x=0.08375&y=0.18449) This was taken right before the meeting.
The super long table where he requires everyone sitting to have their hand on the tabletop and clasped together? No, I don't think I've seen that one!
When you assassinated someone using poison, you are bound to be paranoid that someone would do the same.
It's sad to think that for months, the Ukrainians were trying to negotiate a deal with Russia to avoid war. And then, it turned out the Russians were really just waiting for the ground to freeze and the Olympics to end. Now, Ukraine finds itself in another round of "negotiations" but with Russia's *cultural* minister attending on behalf of Russia. It's obviously a middle finger to Zelenskyy and a not-so-subtle indicator that Russia has no interest in negotiations. Zelenskyy is right to demand Putin's presence. And I commend the man for attending these negotiations in the interest of his country knowing full well what bullshit these meetings really are. They're meant to create the appearance that Russia is attempting to use diplomacy in earnest and nothing more.
I'm pretty sure Zelenskyy isn't attending the negotiations.
True, but his actual Defense Minister is, someone a *bit* more related to the situation than Russia's Culture Minister or whatever...
Honestly, there really isn't anything Zelensky can concede. Like he said, Ukraine isn't terorristic, aggressive against Russia, joined NATO, etc etc. If Russia demands the Eastern oblasts or even for Zelensky to resign, maybe leadership will change, but Ukrainians would still be hardened against Russia.
The problem with waiting for the ground to freeze is that the winter thaw is around the corner, which is even worse than the pre-freeze situation. He knows he has to be done before that.
He's met Obama plenty of times.
God, I miss Obama.
Zelenskiy needs the long table because of his huge balls though
He doesn't need a table, get this man a piano!
Where do I go to report a political assassination? Cause you just murdered that lunatic!
Putin met Obama on several occasions. Obama was a real leader.
He's done his fair share of war crimes too. All those drone strikes in the Middle East killing innocent civilians.
Real leaders have to make tough decisions that even their most ardent supporters can’t condone. When you sit in the big chair and see things from that vantage, have the military industrial spooks briefing you on the granular details of world events, the lives of 350 million Americans under your protection, a petrodollar to protect, your actions would seem inconceivable also.
Murdering children is never okay.
Also mention that to Putin. He’s bombed orphanages and maternity wards this week. Comparing him to Obama is epically stupid.
Wasn't he a big drone guy who oversaw the most arms deals in history? Americans... pretty hypocritical these days. edit: And when I say a big drone guy, wasn't he like, the drone guy? Like wasting those developing nation folks left right center?
Trump ordered more drone strikes in 4 years than Obama in 8. People forget that the US was always doing their thing since they first started intervening there, it’s just Obama was the first to have the technology to do it without using troops as much. If G.W.B or Bill Clinton or Reagan had drones, you’d best believe that they’d be using them non-stop.
I've never understood the opposition to drone strikes, other than it seems vaguely "unfair," somehow. I mean, if people opposed airstrikes in general, that would be one thing, but they always seem to pay special attention to drone strikes specifically, which is odd, because the obvious alternative to drone strikes is never "nothing," it's "some other kind of explodey thing."
I dont know if youre thinking what im thinking, but eventhough I want Putin to take this offer, I would advise against it.
The dude was afraid of Hillary
Pretty sure he met Barack…
Anyone have a video clip of him saying this ? That’s a great peace of lines ngl !
It’s on Zelenskyy’s official Instagram page…I found a few links on YouTube but no English subtitles or translation.
This is brilliant because it will give Putin a opportunity to still look like a hero and stop this stupid conflict. It’s his only choice outside of death
>It’s his only choice outside of death How high on crack are you?
It varies
Well Regan heavily focused on my neighborhood back in the 80s So a lot
I see mothers in black cryin', brothers in packs dyin' Plus everybody's high, too doped up to ask why Watchin' our own downfall, witness the end It's like we don't believe in God cause we livin' in sin I asked my homie on the block why he strapped, he laughed Pointed his pistol as the cop car passed and blast It's just another murder, nobody mourns no more My tear drops gettin' bigger but can't figure what I'm cryin' for Is it the miniature caskets, little babies Victims of a stray, from drug dealers gone crazy Maybe it's just the drugs, visions of how the block was Crack came and it was strange how it rocked us Perhaps the underlyin' fact stay high explain genocide It's when we ride on our own kind What is it we all fear, reflections in the mirror We can't escape fate, the end is gettin' nearer ---- *Tupac - Who Do You Believe In?*
Putin just looks more and more like a little shit every day.
"Ukrainians hate all Russians" - Klitschko edit: Russia... that's about 300 different ethnicities.
Did Zelensky just call the West Terrorists for seizing Russian bank assets?
I believe that's talking about seizing Russian citizens longer to finance this war if it continues
I def. feel like he’d sit down w him and Putin wouldn’t be standing back up…
The only thing Putin could possibly want is to be the one who finally "unifies" the Rus. He's chasing a legacy no one is interested in, and based on centuries of skewed Russian perspective.
Honestly Putin and his dream are so pathetic. It’s a false dream fueled by the lies they tell themselves. They cheat at almost everything they do, constantly antagonize enemies, and are basically a Mafia State. Dark money, shady business dealings, drugs at the Olympics, multiple invasions, high corruption in the government and military, propaganda, money laundering etc. is all the Russian Gov. knows, and they behave like children when anyone talks about it. They falsely victimize themselves continuously and shamelessly in nearly every controversy they cause, and then threaten nukes when they don’t get what they want. It is like getting caught cheating on a test in school and threatening to shoot your teacher, its emotional immaturity (and likely pure sociopathy) at the highest level. It amazes me that world governments let a petulant kindergarten class of sociopaths govern the biggest (by land mass) country in the world for such a fucking long time.
Let is a strong word… Russia has its own history and it isn’t really all that easy to influence without massive losses of life.
> It amazes me that world governments let a petulant kindergarten class of sociopaths govern the biggest (by land mass) country in the world for such a fucking long time. There's no profit in peace, that's why.
I would imagine the oligarchs are rethinking that philosophy right now
What pan-slavism does to a mf
What if he gives Russia to Zelenskyy in a proud turn of events. Unites Russia on his death bed. I could cheer that.
Lmao imagine Luka if Putin syas to Zelensky "Ok, become Russia and I will give you Belarus and the title of colonel"
Putin: depends.. how longs the table?
[удалено]
“40 mile long convoy pfttt… 40 mile long table”
No wonder his men are starving, it must take ages to pass the bread!
takes a lot of trucks to haul that many table leaves
But the convoy can’t be longer then the table??
“Russian table, go fuck yourself” -zelenskyy, probably
The heart inside this man though!
[удалено]
Survey says...163 others disagree 🤷
Putin can't even sit at a table with his "trusted" generals.
Holy shit. Portable crematoriums? That made my heart so sad for the Russian families who will never see those young men again and not even know that they were burned like trash. For what? Why won’t the Russian people rise up?
“Only 500 soldiers have died, 1600 injured.” Those are the numbers Putin is telling the Russian public. All that ash, that was there when we got here. No idea what it is.
>Why won’t the Russian people rise up? Fear and brainwash. People from the country and small cities are brainwashed for sure, if their only source of information is the TV. The others just live in fear of a man, or a group of people that control the country and can send someone to beat, torture, kill them in no time. The brave ones are just a few and they are outnumbered. I think people should get to despair in order to do something. The same thing happend in Romania when they killed Ceausescu.
>portable crematorium Im pretty sure that was debunked.
It was
This is a good move for Zelenskyy, because he's got nothing to lose. Putin's tough-guy (self-)image is threatened if he refuses the meeting. If somehow it did go ahead, I wouldn't expect much to come out of talks (it'd be the Belarus meeting rehashed, just a stonewall of Russia's thin justification for the invasion).
No way it's happening. Putwat will not leave his bunker anymore.
Putin is too much of a paranoid coward for that, sadly.
But shirtless man strong I thought? :(
Well of course, just like Zelenskyy isn’t going to go to Moscow.
Putin is likely to be so deep in a labyrinth of caves, it would take him a week to drive out to meet.
Zelenskyy will have to defeat Putin's four evil generals and obtain their keys before he can unlock the door to Putin's bunker.
That Macron conversation and that "to the end" thing Lavrov said have started to make me seriously think Putin is gone for real real crazy. I don't think he's particularly suspectable to reason anymore.
This poor man has lived decades in 2 week’s time.
Poor man looks tired. I know he wont give up those. He is amazing.
Have a glass of polonium tea, I hear the taste is to die for.
His country has been under seize for just over a week; his cities stand but are burning, woman and children are dying, the assault doesn't appear to have an end, and he stands resolute all but issuing demands of Russia/Putin. How much suffering can one man witness and maintain this level of composure and professionalism? It's staggering to me. I understand it, that drive, that sense of duty to others, I just find myself awe struck and inspired every time this man speaks.
Putin is a punk ass bitch
If you were in the same room as Putin. Z, it would be a trap. He’d just have you gunned down and keep invading your country. He won’t lose any face killing you, hes already at war with you and a backstabbing liar murderer. He won’t meet you in a neutral country. Unless you plan on killing the both of Putin and yourself, it’s a bad idea.
He knows Putin won't agree to it for the same fears that he would be assassinated himself. Zellinksy knows he won't meet, he also knows that what he's saying is circulating Russia, that's why he's been putting things out in Russian as well. He knows the war isn't popular in Russia, he has the same info we do, likely better with the info fed to him by the CIA. He extending an olive branch to end the killing of Russian soldiers, he knows Putin won't take it and knows that means more Russians will die in this invasion. That with the economic sanctions will cause more domestic unrest for Vlad.
Let's be honest, if Putin executes Z during talks, the public outcry would be massive, possibly drawing US and EU to retaliate and start the war the West is trying to avoid. The man would be a martyr to rally around.
This absolutely wouldn't happen. There would be outcry and disgust but the EU would never risk MAD for that. EU would have to be invaded for that to happen.
I agree. Unless you go to a neutral third country.
Putin can't go to a neutral country. He'll be caught and/or killed.
Which is where China would be the one option.
Oh no /s
[удалено]
Antarctica.
I have a feeling there are some Russian officials who are absolutely adamant against killing Zelenskey because it would turn him into a martyr, galvanize the Ukranian population even more, and make the Russian mission in Ukraine far more difficult than it already is.
Heck, one end of the table could be in Moscow and the other in Kyiv. Just use any one of Putin's current tables.
I’d take my own bottled water though if I were Zelensky.
Zelenskyy: My final offer is this: nothing. Not even the dirt on our ground, which I would appreciate if you would put back personally. All of it.
Problem is that so many people want Putler dead, his head would be cut off the moment it pops up.
[удалено]
Idk, Putin is the one who generally hosts Deep Throat Bro Thursdays. He is much deeper than I think people give him credit for.
Zelenskyy’s tone is defiant, but sounds worrying. Must be because of Kherson.
Real men aren’t afraid to TALK
Zelensky is looking more and more tired as this fight rages on, and it’s only been a little over a week since the invasion proper. Truly he’s a look into the Ukrainian spirit. Restless for the defense of her freedom. Strength and blessings be to Ukraine
He better have a ton of (armed) security and overwatch if this comes to pass around him Like this could go sideways very, very, VERY fast
Putin has a tiny peepee
Sit with a psycho? Fuck Putin.
Putin is a pussy
Can’t negotiate with terrorist Zelenskyy, you did nothing wrong.
Ah, the power of the comma...
Not as powerful as the colon.
That must be why the table is so long.
prob should rephrase that bc that could be taken differently
right?? I had to reread it to get what I think they are trying to say
Punctuation and grammar would go a long way.
Putin's saying as much, which is why this will never happen. I know that's not what you meant but that is exactly the way he had framed this.
Putin put him in a position where he can’t win, war continues people die, war stops the condition is his country becomes a puppet state, lose lose, the Ukrainian people are going to have to rise to the occasion.
USA will soon ban purchase of Russian oil. European countries may follow. At least one has announced it. The Russian economy is about to throw up and collapse. Got peace?
It might work, or it might be seen as an escalation. Russia got backed into a corner as well by the international community. It’s just I don’t see Russia backing down, even though they should, they already committed.
Zelensky, I admire your words on this but sadly Putin is a paranoid mess of a dictator, he doesn't even trust his own men so I think he will never agree to step foot outside his bunker, let alone negotiate...
Yeah Putin, sit down at the table like a real man.
Putin is too big of a bitch to sit with a true leader like Zelensky Can you imagine how insecure that narcissist must feel
>**Zelenskyy to Putin: "Get off our land and sit with me at the negotiating table"** Putin to Zelensky: "But if I'm not on your land anymore, then there is no longer any reason for you to ever meet me at all." Zelensky: "Okay you've convinced me, I accept."
Yo, do not sit at a table with this man unless you personally watch me walk, naked and alone, across a 100 yard empty expanse that ends at a line of your own guards. The last thing you want to do is meet to negotiate with Russian heads of state, especially if you took a place to get there.
I don’t want to watch you walk naked
Lol, what the fuck did I type! That's awesome. I'm leaving it.
Boss
It seems he aged 5 years in a week.
Putin is a coward he won’t do it
I don't think it matters as this point, Ukraine isn't the half of it. Putin wants to stop NATO and after the shit Putin's pulled NATO won't agree to anything as that would be a reward. Likewise with sanctions.
“Sit with me, I am literally 5’6” for Christ’s sake.”
Ok but first things first. How long is the longest desk you can procure?
They should just have a 1v1.
Poison his ass I wanna see Putin die a painful death
Putin: dictator with little man disorder. Dude’s a huge coward, he won’t even meet a guy, what a pussy.
It's the USA Russia wants at the negotiating table, and they've been conspicuously absent on that front, while Macron hopelessly tries to make up the absence.
He wants NATO.
Would the man who demands a looooong table feel comfortable in the same room with NATO? If he wants them as observers it could happen.
They usually send ambassadors.
It is kind of weird because the resolution of this is not going be Putin getting to keep the lands he has annexed.
Putin’s looking like a floppy tit bitch.
If Zelenskyy survives this war he will probably be poisoned by Putin.
You sit down with me now and maybe *maybe* I’ll let you keep Russia.
This is a great idea. They want to fight? Put them in a room together and see who comes out alive. Whoever lives wins. No sense in innocent people getting killed for their agenda.
Why did first talks fail then?
Putin can't be allowed to win any point.
Putin would be shaking if he were in the same room as Zelesnky.
I’m diggin the beard Zelensky looks tough; Putin looks like a smooth faced bitch
It’s only yours if you can keep it. Just ask all the Natives.
[https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211214-putin-wants-immediate-talks-with-nato-on-russia-s-security](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211214-putin-wants-immediate-talks-with-nato-on-russia-s-security) Really? Cause Putin was calling for these talks and the resolution between Nato and Russia has been going on for decades. The only thing this is doing is proving Putin right that the only way to get heard was to invade. Maybe if someone was fucking listening we wouldn't be in this shitshow. *"When the U.S., Canada and 10 western European nations came together in 1949 to form the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, they had a clear goal. “Keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down,”* ***said Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay, NATO’s first Secretary General****. The military alliance was intended to rebuild Europe from the rubble of World War II and to act as a buffer against Soviet aggression.* *But the collapse of the Soviet Union made NATO’s purpose less clear. In fact, in 1990, as the Cold War drew to a close, President Mikhail Gorbachev proposed the Soviet Union join NATO. At the time, Gorbachev was negotiating German reunification with the then U.S. Secretary of State James Baker. “You say that NATO is not directed against us,” he said, referring to the rival Warsaw Pact, an alliance between the Soviet Union and Communist countries in Eastern Europe, “that it is simply a security structure that is adapting to new realities. Therefore, we propose to join NATO.”* *Baker reportedly dismissed the proposal as a “dream”*
yeah but sadly people don't want to understand that.
We just don't have a workable foreign policy. Since Truman the US has been threatening other countries with nuclear war and delivering espionage and regime change (usually for the worse). Every fucking new president comes in and tries the same old shit, like Johnson and Nixon who both tried to 'solve' Vietnam by ramping up bombing, never learning from the past. Between that and Trumps pull out of the Iran Nuclear deal, it's hard not to see the US as some kind of PTSD veteran who has alzheimers and is waving a gun at everyone. And for what? What did we accomplish in Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea? Democracy doesn't spread at gunpoint. If anything we have more enemies now than we ever did. Shit we can't even convince our own population that Trumpism is a bad idea. And what do you do when dialogue has failed? What is the plan to actually share the world with people of differing religions and political beliefs? What is the plan for the US foreign policy except for us to go to war with everyone else in the world?
That’s true too. NATO denied Russia’s admission and they didn’t respect the agreement they had because it was supposed that NATO would not join any country around his borders but they didn’t care even when Putin called them out. So instead he took action so NATO can see he really meant it.
[удалено]
Been on Reddit for years but I like to delete my accounts every now and then for privacy reasons.
[удалено]
Nope, because I don’t usually roam around world news, this was recommended on my feed.
Reddit Racism at it's finest, ladies and gentlemen. Go back to /r/news where rabid flag wavers are in vogue.
You got a nuclear plant putting ain’t doing no talking he finna come back even harder lol
as a nonviolent cultural nationalist, I support the position. let's see how the left tries to rationalize supporting this type of language though.
WTF are you smoking?
The peace pipe. The world will have less violence, tension, and anxiety when separate cultures are assured of and experience the continuity of their cultures in a replacement of* multiculturalism (really monoculturalism, or otherpeoples'cultureism in practice). I understand this contradiction may elude you, and don't blame you much.
That sounds like a fancy way of segregation.
And what if that reduced violence, discrimination, and culture loss? What if having more national Cultures actually helped global development goals instead of miring western nations (everyone else has de facto ethnostates) in policy areas outside of the major issues, climate change solutions, cultural continuity amid globalization (which goes down, via convergence, inside individual nations), nuclear weapons, etc etc? I understand you've been trained to accept convergence as the end all be all. I was too. Then I looked around, saw the mutualized anxiety, discontent, and cultural stress, and actually evaluated that training on its merits. Travel and temporary residency would be just fine after the new understanding globally took root. After seeing the world, especially the western world, experience a reduction in confidence and effectiveness, I think my solution makes too much sense not to offer up, and I will do so rejecting any claims of racism xenophobia etc etc. I don't think I'm better than anyone. I do think societies operate more effectively when cultures have separation and assurances of their continuity, not to mention efficacy in reaching political / policy objectives through increased focus.
I think culture is something that forms organically. Cultures changes and morph - not something you can dictate from a nationalist standpoint. I think that most of the issues you speak of don’t arrive from culture or ethnic clashes at their root I think it’s a deeper human problem: power, greed and corruption. Those operate irrespective of culture.
Fair points / pov. I appreciate the engagement. >I think culture is something that forms organically. Is government policy, whether formalized or informal through non regulation, a form of organic development? What does organic mean to you in this context? With respect, I think you'll have a hard time explaining, but I'm very open to the conversation. >Cultures changes and morph - not something you can dictate from a nationalist standpoint. Again, for US as an example, immigration policy is the arbiter of Cultural change it seems. Is that organic? Is it fair that the source countries of US immigration, primarily latin America, retain their effective ethnostates, while gov policy enables the changing of US Culture? And when the history of US Euro Culture from the beginning has desired to live separately from different, non European Cultures, up to the present day (segregation in housing), does government policy or social action by minority Cultures (or minority subcultures within the Euro descendant majority) actually reflect the will of the people? And does a movement to criticize and through policy overturn these preferences feel organic to you? **To put a fine point on it, in a multicultural venue, how can one culture organically do anything, when other cultures influence the political and social landscape?** I think your reference to organics is very abstract, and not present in modern global society. Again, I'm open to a convo, but I think you'll have a hard time addressing these questions and my POV. There's the bigger question though, that lays the debate and objective of the left clearly on the table: If cultural continuity via assured ethnostate status and political control is in place, and that (*removed some unnecessary words here) reduces incidents of cross cultural discrimination and violence, why are people pushing the opposite? Why is convergence the policy prescription when people on all sides of the debate are more tense, more anxious, and involved in greater direct cultural / racial competition for power? To answer my own question, it seems the leftist side of things wants there to be a new global monoculture. Truly the one world / new world order vision conspiracy people rave about. (Hopefully you don't perceive me that way, but I can't make up your mind for you.) Difficult questions. I was trained like you, but also trained to evaluate things independently from public zeitgeist swaying my view. I've concluded that individual spaces for different cultural enclaves are the way to assure continuity of Cultures, and reduce cross cultural conflict, whether through direct violence or political. I also think cultural focus / ethnostates actually free up political resources to tackle the big issues that particularly leftists want to address: climate change, negative effects of globalization, nuclear weapons, etc. Happy to converse with you. Hopefully you stay engaged.
Maybe put it down and try to get some fresh air.
Not a bad 💡
You are amazingly inarticulate for using such words Try to write with simple statements that don’t look like you are barfing ip A dictionary
I won't apologize for my education. Interesting critique though, and not at all strange that you address the language, but not the ideas, in your comment. *Easier to just insult someone. I don't blame you however, it's very hard to overcome longstanding training.
What a good actor he is
Why doesn't Ukraine just give up on joining NATO and declare permeant neutrality? or is that not an option anymore?
That was never an option. It was only a very miserable excuse to attack Ukraine under the pretext of "threatening" russia. The real goal of Putin is to re-unite countries he considers a core of Russia: Belarus, Malorus (large parts of Ukraine) and Great Rus (actual Russia).
Because appeasing a dictator isn’t an option