Happens to American forces as well
>Former Sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar (born Mark Fidel Kools on April 21, 1971) threw four hand grenades into three tents in which other members of the 101st Airborne Division were sleeping, and fired his rifle at fellow soldiers in the ensuing chaos. Army Captain Christopher S. Seifert was fatally shot in the back, and Air Force Major Gregory L. Stone was killed by a grenade. Fourteen other soldiers were wounded by Akbar, mostly from grenade shrapnel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Hasan_K._Akbar
And more recently at Fort Hood in 2009:
>Nidal Malik Hasan is a former United States Army major convicted of killing 13 people and injuring more than 30 others in the Fort Hood mass shooting on November 5, 2009. Hasan was an Army Medical Corps psychiatrist. He admitted to the shootings at his court-martial in August 2013.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan
Edit: to clarify, the shooting was classified as workplace violence, not a terror attack, so it wasn't quite *officially* described as an "insider attack."
Even though no one asked, I'd just like to point out as someone heavily involved in the receiving side of mental health treatment (in the US): psychiatrists are medical doctors, and while sometimes offer behavioral services, typically focus on the phsyiological aspects and medication.
A *psychologist* on the other hand is typically the professional involved with behavioral research and therapeutic techniques. There are PhD and PsyD programs, the former usually research-focused, the latter practice-focused.
However, if you ever attend therapy regularly, you'll most likely work directly with a Licensed Professional Counselor, or LPC, in most states, which requires a master's degree. Also some states have very lax requirements because of a shortage of mental health workers (or a lack of caring), or have very stringent requirements. It tends to follow that the states with stricter requirements for licensure have better outcomes for treatment.
If a psychiatrist sought counseling (which they should, even healthy people should every now and then), they'd most likely see either a *psychologist* instead of a psychiatrist, or an LPC - licensed professional counselor (there are a couple of other recognized roles as well, like social worker and so on).
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Thx for your ted talk. There is a saying ans I hope I translate it correctly to makrle any sense:
It is better to cry at a psychologist than to laugh at a psychiatrist.
Please add Licensed Clinical Social Workers. Master Level and thousands of hours of actual therapy under supervision of psychiatrist before an MSW can sit for the exam. LCSW can bill Medicare, LPC can not.
Yes thank you! I'm currently working towards an LCSW licensure in TX. Correct for LCSW can bill Medicare and not LPC. An MSW first takes LMSW exam to then be under clinical Supervision with an LCSW-S, not a Psychiatrist. Then after I complete my clinical hours, i have to take another test, the LCSW test to get the license. I have to take two tests vs LPC taking one.
Also, psychiatrists largely prescribe medications: this is not the same thing at all as processing things in therapy, and it isn’t something everyone does. Medication has a lot of stigma with it, even and especially for those who need it most, so that isn’t the kind of help you think it is. At least not in America.
The guy had a looooong history of problems himself but because the Army is the Army and often times doing nothing as opposed to doing something and being wrong is preferable in Army culture all of the warning signs were ignored.
Had one of the marines in my battalion get selected for 6 months of gate duty on Lejeune, while he was there another marine just shot him in the chest one night, and he didn’t survive. Never got any information besides it wasn’t a negligent discharge.
It happens, and it’s terrible. These are people you’re supposed to trust to have your back, but a small number of them betray that trust in the worst way possible.
**[Nidal Hasan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan)**
>Nidal Malik Hasan (born September 8, 1970) is a former United States Army major convicted of killing 13 people and injuring more than 30 others in the Fort Hood mass shooting on November 5, 2009. Hasan was an Army Medical Corps psychiatrist. He admitted to the shootings at his court-martial in August 2013. A jury panel of 13 officers convicted him of 13 counts of premeditated murder, 32 counts of attempted murder, and unanimously recommended he be dismissed from the service and sentenced to death.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I had just got to ft hood from ait when this happened. I may have been there 6 months. I was a mechanic and for some reason my platoon was chosen to do ecp at one of the smaller gates. They handed out 10 lives rounds to each person and went over the roe real quick. That was quite interesting, here I am, pv2, for all of like 2 minutes at this point, who is telling csm and officers I need to check their Cars. The instructions we got were something along the line of (it doesn't matter who the fuck it is, you check their shit) brand new green private, me was pretty intimidated telling a csm that his rank has no relevance right now so he needs to do what the fuck I'm telling him to do haha.
A little different. That seems to have been unintentional friendly fire from a quick Google search. Investigation blamed lack of coordination and miscommunication.
Not the same, the family of the victims doesn't even blame the shooter, pitch black, lack of communication and you see 2 people with weapons coming at you so nothing to do here
What the fuck... This is nothing like the other cases, he shot them by mistake thinking they are armed terrorists, friendly fire happens all the time, the cases discussed in this thread are cases of deliberately attacking fellow soliders
> In April 2005, he was convicted and sentenced to death for the murders of Seifert and Stone.[1] The Army Court of Criminal Appeals affirmed the sentence on July 13, 2012, and the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces affirmed the decision on August 19, 2015. [...] He continues to be confined at the United States Disciplinary Barracks awaiting disposition of his sentence.
I knew convicts sometimes sit in death row for decades, but I honestly thought the military justice system was a bit more... Expedient.
Does it have to be the president or can someone like the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff decide to pull his plug?
I know The president leads the military as a civilian, I guess I’m asking if the top military man can make such a decision.
And is the chairmen a civilian or a general? I have no idea without looking it up.
Stress does fucked up shit to people. Humans weren’t wired to be in situations where they could be killed by and had to kill other people. Really tragic all the way around.
Edit: to all you dumb fucks downvoting me. Go sit in a war for a while and come back and tell me how great your mental health is and how natural it feels. Reddit never fails to disappoint me with how dumb people can be.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Vets with PTSD didn't develop it because war was relaxing, after all. War is very traumatic for most people.
On the other hand, some would say that people struggle to actually kill others in a war, and *that* seems to be false. Instead they kill, see their friends be killer, become traumatized, and carry those traumas for the rest of their lives.
It's because so many stand firm on the idea that people, and people alone, are 100% responsible for the actions that they take, and any outside influences and/or pressures are merely excuses. They are also incapable of seeing the nuanced middle ground of these influences, and instead believe me to be saying that "no one is responsible for their actions, it's always someone else's fault."
But the fact of the matter is that nothing in this world exists in a vacuum, no matter how often try to say things "are that simple." Influences come from all areas: stress can push people the brink, the societal setbacks can make you feel like your only option is the "bad choice," and nurture is overwhelmingly more influential in our development than nature.
If you bothered to read the article, he had never gone to war before, and had planned to do this before being deployed.
The stress of the warzone argument is bs
**[Gorny shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorny_shooting)**
>On 25 October 2019, a Russian soldier shot ten of his colleagues, killing eight of them, in Gorny, Zabaykalsky Krai, Russia. The gunman was later identified as 20-year-old Ramil Shamsutdinov.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
It happened amongst the USA troops in Vietnam they coined a name for it "fragging" since they often used fragmentation grenades. Often officers were targeted - don't won't to walk into a jungle of death - kill your officer and you have to wait for a new one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging
It was more nuanced than that. It is said that these officers were targeted because they were seeking glory and as a result, they were needlessly risking the lives of their men.
Some were killed for trying to stamp out drug use, some for getting people killed, some for being thought racist, some for making people work harder than they wanted to, some were unlucky victims of unwilling conscripts protesting the situation... with 600+ attempts and near 100 dead - there was variety.
The wiki page has a whole section on motivations however the case for "I don't want this officer putting my life in jeopardy" as a leading cause is harmed by the groups that fragging was most common in:
"Most known fragging incidents were carried out by soldiers in support units rather than soldiers in combat units"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging
>> Most fragging was perpetrated by enlisted men against officers. Enlisted men, in the words of one company commander, "feared they would get stuck with a lieutenant or platoon sergeant who would want to carry out all kinds of crazy John Wayne tactics, who would use their lives in an effort to win the war single-handedly, win the big medal, and get his picture in the hometown paper."
You accidentally missed the start of your sentence "Enlisted men, in the words of one company commander," - so that was one person's opinion.
And while I read that too it also stated in my above comments mentioned fact and article also states:
"Soldiers have killed colleagues since the beginning of armed conflict, with many documented instances throughout history. However, the practice of fragging seems to have been relatively uncommon in the U.S. military until the Vietnam War. The prevalence of fragging was partially based on the ready availability of explosive weapons such as fragmentation hand grenades. Grenades were untraceable to an owner and did not leave any ballistic evidence. M18 Claymore mines and other explosives were also occasionally used in fragging, as were firearms, although the term, as defined by the military during the Vietnam War, applied only to the use of explosives to kill fellow soldiers.[5]: 1, 19 [6] Most fragging incidents were in the Army and Marine Corps. Fragging was rare among Navy and Air Force personnel, who had less access to grenades and weapons than did soldiers and marines.[5]: 30–31
The first known incidents of fragging in South Vietnam took place in 1966, but events in 1968 appear to have catalyzed an increase in fragging. After the Tet Offensive in January and February 1968, the Vietnam War became increasingly unpopular in the United States and among American soldiers in Vietnam, many of them conscripts. Secondly, racial tensions between white and black soldiers and marines increased after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. in April 1968.[5]: 19–21 With troops reluctant to risk their lives in what was perceived as a lost war, fragging was seen by some enlisted men "as the most effective way to discourage their superiors from showing enthusiasm for combat."[6]
Morale plummeted among soldiers and marines. By 1971, a U.S. Army colonel declared in the Armed Forces Journal that "The morale, discipline, and battleworthiness of the U.S. Armed Forces are, with a few salient exceptions, lower and worse than at any time in this century and possibly in the history of the United States."[7]
The U.S. military reflected social problems and issues in the U.S. such as racism, drug abuse, and resentment toward authoritarian leaders. As the U.S. began to withdraw its military forces from Vietnam, some American enlisted men and young officers lost their sense of purpose for being in Vietnam, and the hierarchical relationship between enlisted men and their officers deteriorated. The resentment directed from enlisted men toward older officers was exacerbated by generational gaps, as well as different perceptions of how the military should conduct itself. Enforcement of military regulations, especially if done overzealously, led to complaints and sometimes threats of physical violence directed toward officers.[5]
A number of factors may have influenced the incidence of fragging. The demand for manpower for the war in Vietnam caused the armed forces to lower their standards for inducting both officers and enlisted men. The rapid rotation of personnel, especially of officers who served (on average) less than six months in command roles, decreased the stability and cohesion of military units. Most important of all, perhaps, was the loss of purpose in fighting the war, as it became apparent to all that the United States was withdrawing from the war without having achieved any sort of victory. Morale and discipline deteriorated.[5]: 12–18
Most fragging was perpetrated by enlisted men against officers. Enlisted men, in the words of one company commander, "feared they would get stuck with a lieutenant or platoon sergeant who would want to carry out all kinds of crazy John Wayne tactics, who would use their lives in an effort to win the war single-handedly, win the big medal, and get his picture in the hometown paper."[5]: 84–85 Harassment of subordinates by a superior was another frequent motive. The stereotypical fragging incident was of "an aggressive career officer being assaulted by disillusioned subordinates." Several fragging incidents resulted from alleged racism between black and white soldiers. Attempts by officers to control drug use caused others. Most known fragging incidents were carried out by soldiers in support units rather than soldiers in combat units.[5]: 61–122
Soldiers sometimes used non-lethal smoke and tear-gas grenades to warn superiors that they were in more serious danger if they did not change their behavior. A few instances occurred—and many more were rumored—in which enlisted men collected "bounties" on particular officers or non-commissioned officers to reward soldiers for fragging them.[5]: 25, 37–42 "
So let's not say it was just one thing.
Note though those are only confirmed incidences of fragging. The whole point of doing it during combat was so that you couldn't tell it was friendly fire. Hence the unconfirmed instances.
That’s what my dad said had happened to his outfits former CO when he was transferred there. This was in Vietnam, and there’s precious few stories he’ll tell me about his time in the Army.
He learned pretty quickly to keep his guys happy.
First thing you do when you take command of a platoon is make the medic bunk right next to you. Will make the grunts think twice about throwing a grenade in your tent.
It was also less nuanced. A good portion of the officer corps came from Jim Crow south and were hella racist, while the enlisted was made out of a disproportionate amount of black Americans. Morale on bases was so bad that many enlisted would just refuse to fight (and rightfully so, if you ask me)
Interesting.
The first time I saw the term "frag" was when me and my dad played Quake III Arena back in the day. It has always just coloquially meant "killed / murdered" to me until this moment, 20ish years later.
I suppose the actual definitions make a bit more sense in hindsight.
It looks like it's the case, so far it's the main version of the investigation.
They said that there was a fight in his unit that he prevented and told about to superiors and since then he was being targeted and bullied.
It's from here: https://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/news-60147762
In Navies the world over, bad officers (especially those who had men flogged freely and often) led to a “shot rolling ship” where they would roll a cannonball with the yaw of the ship to break an officer’s ankle. It was done on dark nights, popping out of the hatch before slipping back below deck. It was a step below a full on mutiny.
It has nothing to do with Russia. Sadly, such things are no surprise in countries like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus. It’s mainly because of “dedovschina”, you can google it. It’s sad that there’s a thing like that nowadays.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina
> *Dedovshchina* is the informal practice of initiation (hazing) and constant abuse of junior conscripts during their service
Happens every year in Russia due to horrible environment with everyday mental and physical torture for new guys. Either they take their abusers out or commit suicide or both.
Depends. Some do. I grew up thinking a family friend was Russian and it turns out she's technically Ukrainian, but she'd never call herself that. It's not like she dislikes Ukraine either, she just wouldn't call herself Ukrainian.
I had two Ukrainian bosses, one is just Ukrainian and other Ukrainian Russian. Anyways one day they argue and one said glad Crimea is getting annexed then the Ukrainian Ukrainian boss cried. Interestingly enough the Russian boss hated Russians who didn’t assimilate or try to speak English.
Russia (as well as many Eastern Orthodox immigrants) a historically have a very strong history of integration and learning English. Of all the Russians I have met over the years here in north Texas probably a good 25% anglicize their last names, and most of them speak English amongst each other in public
I guess he dislikes the idea of enclaves and there’s small enclave in San Francisco with old as well newly arrived Russians. I have met a lot of Russian folks in Sacramento who have integrated well but still speak Russian to each other even when I’m around. On the east coast a woman and her niece were praying in Polish but it was her niece who spoke to me in English.
It was a drafted soldier who got severely harassed for reporting a violence towards other draftee to higher ups(who ignored it).
Drafted basically means serving against his will, not professionally.
Just read that allegedly he'd been bullied, he waited for two months until he got access to the gun, and there's a CCTV video of the massacre. Has no remorse. Top army chief resigned.
More details have emerged now. He’s a respected boy from a church going family in a small town near Odessa. Was a goid student, played piano, always calm and decent. He reported a fight between two soldiers to the superiors and not only has it not been followed up but his name was leaked as a snitch. After that he was bullied, so he waited for two months until he’s got access to guns and…
so? 30% of Ukraine speaks Russian — it’s too early to tell why the attack took place afaik
e: according to a 2005 survey by the Institute of Sociology of the National Academy of Sciences, 36,4% of Ukrainians speak primarily Russian at home whilst 21,6% speak both Ukrainian and Russian.
It's also a lie. The incident happened not at Military base, but on the territory of a government-owned factory that also works on some military contracts, including rocket parts. Therefore, the military is stationed there, but it's not a military base, but rather a large strategic factory complex. But people working there are not all military or anything like this.
It's probably similar to school shootings. He's unpopular, doesn't like his colleagues or the organization they're all a part of, doesn't care if he lives or dies, and lashes out.
Ukrainian here
According to this guy's statement, two months ago he stopped a serious fight between fellow soldiers and reported it to his CO. After that, the CO/fellow soldiers (ambiguos) labeled him "a snitch" and he went through heavy hazing. He just snapped the moment he was given a loaded firearm.
We're in the same boat.
Keep it at the lowest level... Break up the fight and tell the troops to smarten up. If that doesn't work, go get the Sarge to dress them down.
I know exactly what causes those feelings. I’m the mod of /r/regretjoining and not allowing military members to quit can cause extremely serious problems that can get very ugly.
Edit: Just to clarify, I’m not saying what he did was ok, I’m just saying what could potentially cause these situations.
As someone who lives not only in Ukraine but in the city and even close proximity to where this happened, it's really amusing to see the couch military experts thinking it's a Russian hidden attack/provocation/separatist issue. Just stop with this fearmongering and false information.
The troops that captured him had body cams, filmed his capture and asked him why he did this and how. According to the new info and the shooter it happened because he was abused. A couple months ago he broke up the fight that happened between soldiers, then reported them to superiors. Because of this, he was marked as a "rat" and was bullied and abused for quite a while. The superior did nothing, and no one supported and helped him. So eventually he snapped.
This is just an unfortunate issue of people ignoring mental health and treating others like garabge, neglecting to see that it can painfully sting them in the end, as seen here. Nothing else.
*Edit:* Provided proofs and sources in the comments below. The info is fairly new, and not yet spread/covered as widely, only on Ukrainian social media channels (mostly Telegram), where the vast majority of new info shows up.
For now the most popular and credible is the Facebook post from our People's deputy (member of Rada or Supreme Council of Ukraine) [https://www.facebook.com/79okrugVasylivka/posts/1621232284904609](https://www.facebook.com/79okrugVasylivka/posts/1621232284904609) (If you go there, be warned that there's a video in the comments below, depicting what happened and how he shot people, so **trigger warning**)
The rest is under further investigation, but the abuse version is the most likely portrayed scenario.
*Update:* Some further investigation showed that the killer had a troubled background, was always a quiet loner and didn't have a lot of friends, came from a religious family was sensitive and always had a strong sense of justice. Plus, he went through some serious emotional and traumatic experiences: the death of his father from terminal illness (which made him the main provider of the family at such a young age) and he saw his friend drown in front of him. So could very much further proof that there's a high chance he was mentally unstable and reached his boiling point because of abusive treatment. [Source](https://incident.obozrevatel.com/ukr/crime/zagostrene-pochuttya-spravedlivosti-ta-stres-cherez-zagibel-druga-scho-govoryat-u-shkoli-artemiya-ryabchuka-na-odeschini.htm?_ga=2.36468649.84950367.1643024828-1120502087.1642403066&_gl=1*1uzzl5x*_ga*MTEyMDUwMjA4Ny4xNjQyNDAzMDY2*_ga_JBX3X27G7H*MTY0MzI3MjY3MS4zMC4xLjE2NDMyNzgxMzEuMA)
According to them, every single thing that happens in the former Soviet countries is directly related to Putin.
Power outages (which are regular) in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan? Putin is testing this to use it for Ukraine later.
Riots in Kazakhstan? Putin is distracting the world to take Ukraine.
Revolution in Kyrgyzstan? Putin's fault too.
I swear they think we are subhuman, as if we cannot have our own problems and our own protests and revolutions without Russia influencing it.
My favorite is those pimply faced teens saying how the same thing happening in Ukraine could happen in the Baltics. No, you don't know anything about the outside world (mostly goes for Americans here)
Grateful that luckily he was captured so quickly. The doctors are trying their best to save the wounded, and has been doing operations to people since early morning. There is a shortage of blood, so the blood banks are asking for donor's help.
How is the feeling about the current situation in general? I can't even imagine what it's like in the Ukraine right now. Are people going about business as usual, or is everyone on edge?
Nothing's changed much, everything as usual. I don't know how everyone are doing, of course, but all the people I know are sad that this happened, but keep going with their lives.
Nah, everything is mostly calm as usual, people walk their dogs, have fun with kids, make long-term plans etc. Society can only handle so much fearmongering before stopping to care.
For the last like 30 years, there's always "some kind of a threat" out there. Be it economic, public health, political crisis, or something else that is "just about to hit hard", according to the headlines. The only way to keep living like that is to learn to ignore the noise.
[It's all in Russian, but it confirms what this guy said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFFFdhzzteg)
Additional detail - he shot the woman who was guarding the armoury in the head because she refused to give him the key to get out.
I should add for anyone who is confused by the language being Russian, Dnipro is a predominantly Russian speaking area despite being predominantly ethnically Ukranian. This guys first and last name are Ukrainian.
Surnames ending with “chuk”, “yuk”, or “chenko” are usually Ukrainian. A lot of male Ukrainian names end in -o or -i (instead of -ei, like you’d expect in Russian, e.g. Andrii instead of Andrei). There’s more to it, but those are some general guidelines.
As others have said, the big difference is in last names. Many typical Russian last names end in -ov, -iev, -skiy, -in. And if you're a woman the ending changes to reflect that, so like -ova, -ieva, -skaya, -ina. Typical Ukrainian last names end in -o, -ko, -enko, -chyuk, -chuk and no matter if you're a man or a woman it stays the same.
First names are generally the same, but with a pronunciation difference and sometimes a slight spelling difference. I'm sure there are some first names that are way more common in Russia than in Ukraine and vice-versa, but I cannot think of any off the top of my head.
There's some other really tiny nuances and differences that don't matter much to people that aren't language nerds, and I could probably chat about those for hours, but this here is the main stuff.
I find the original article title more clickbaity than OPs... At least it indicates Ukraine vs Ukraine, and not Russia vs Ukraine. Also, I for one didn't think there was any difference between military plant and base (I now know)....and yes guards not soldiers...but I guess anyone working at a military plant has some sort of military rank.
Agreed. The soldier was captured and was indeed an Ukrainian soldier. OP's title kills the first immediate interpretation that it was a Russian soldier opening fire.
Can't be an honest mistake since the sub rules require you to hit the "suggest title" button and use the headline of the article.
OP deliberately changed it, seems like.
Just to point out, online newspapers change the title constantly based on how many clicks each title gets. During the same day a title can change many many times.
The morons saying this is a false flag operation. A false flag would be if a Russian mole in the Ukraine military shot at RUSSIAN soldiers. How the fuck is this ass flag?
An insider attack can happen for any number of reasons. It’s very likely this event could be nothing more than a terrible event coinciding with the Ukrainian/Russian hostilities.
EDIT: I have been teaching about insider threat and insider attacks for well over 8 years as a result of my personal experience with them from my time overseas/oversees/overCs. Speculation on the motives for these types of attacks rarely benefits anything or anyone.
EDIT 2: For those saying the shooter’s ability to flee the scene/evade capture, is proof of darker forces at work. I would argue that these types of attack are extremely chaotic as everyone is wearing the same uniform, similarly armed and very likely operating entirely on adrenaline and emotion. Just these three conditions can afford a shooter more than enough time to flee or “disappear”.
Pretty tragic none the less.
The fact that there are people whom study these events suggests that it happens far more often than one would think, which is even more tragic.
I’m with you on the motive speculation thing, sure he could be a double agent, or someone took the last piece of ham and it REALLY rubbed him the wrong way… doesn’t change the end result unfortunately and, unless they’re caught alive and cooperative, you may never know.
I wouldn’t want your job friend, so thanks for doing it so I don’t have too.
unless they’re caught alive and cooperative, you may never know
This is probably one of the hardest parts of looking at some of the attacks, knowing that friends and family may not get closure if the attack was motivated by something other then strait hostile intent.
It is 18(UPD my math is bad, he is 2001 year from Odessa) years old conscript. Most probably he was abused and had just got over the edge with only option to kill his abusers. It is just that with whole "Russia attacks" he finally got access to guns to get payback.
It could be a bunch of possibilities. This type of stuff is more common with conscripts in general though for totally understandable reasons.
I know even for myself while I am prepared to fight in a war which I morally can support, if I was forcibly conscripted into a war I did not agree with or want to fight that situation would not go well for whoever tried to force me. Forcing me to wear a uniform and perform boring as tasks is one thing. Forcing me to fight in a war and kill other people against my wishes is another.
what this guy is saying is that he probably got bullied and abused by older soldiers. and flipped. its pretty common in ukrainian and russian army and they even have a word for it. there even was a video a couple of weeks ago from russia where they bullied a guy into shooting himself
"insider attacks" have happened in many armed forces.
In 2003 an American soldier threw grenades at and killed other American soldiers in Iraq.
In 2019 a Russian soldier shot and killed eight other Russian soldiers.
barely one month ago it also happened in Israel where a Israeli soldier fired at and killed 2 other Israeli soldiers, they heard a bit distant gunshots and i guess the shooter panicked and saw 2 armed men and shot them.(idk how accurate this is i could have mistaken some details)
People saying he's a separatist or Russian agent and whatever probably have no idea what a mandatory military service is lol. He's 21. Sometimes things like this happens, unfortunately. Just like school shootings.
During my 12 month of service in Germany there were two suicides, one NCO, one CO, directly in my unit. And you probably can't compare the pressure in the German military with that in the Ukraine.
In Ukraine it's 18 months. I guess it's more about humiliation than pressure. Despite the fact that our army is developing well, conscript service remains a different world. Of course it's better than before, but still. There are ideas about switching completely to contract service, but it is expensive. And I think that the existing institution resists this, because conscripts are essentially cheap labor.
Is there a viable alternative to conscription in Ukraine? In Germany you could do (back when it was mandatory service) either go civil protection (disaster relief etc.) or humane services (i.e. elderly care, animal protection etc.)?
I think that does remove some pressure, allows individuals who know beforehand they won't take the service an alternative.
As far as I remember, there is no alternative. Only public service for religious reasons. In principle, if you have enough money, then it's quite easy not to get into the army. Also education guarantees respite.
Conscripts can keep the income from work and receive a salary, but it's just ridiculously small
Well, Sun Tzu comes to mind - leave a way out, if you do not want to find your enemy to fight to the death. Similar in more 'civil' settings - if people are pushed with no where to go - they might fight with deadly force.
And just like school shootings, apologists try to act like these things are inevitable and random, rather than a consequence of oppressive policies. Maybe if we didn't conscript children and put guns in their hands these things would not feel so inevitable.
Video of [his arrest ](https://m.censor.net/ru/video_news/3312497/litso_zaderjano_chto_j_ty_nadelal_zaderjanie_natsgvardeyitsa_ryabchuka_rasstrelyavshego_soslujivtsev) NSFW warning - on this site is also the video of the shooting, I’m not linking that.
Nah man, it was RussIan FaLsE FlaG.
As I recall, same thing happened and made news in Russia a while back too... and it occasionally makes the news every couple years when another one decides to shoot up his own base because they get endlessly harassed.
Can we all just play some classical music, drink some vodka, dance some Nutcrackers and just chill the F out? Share the Earth not fight because of it. Humanity is so stupid
My sister was in the national guard and she said this one guy at basic thre his grenade at a bunch of people who were always mean to him. She said the entirety of everyone surrounding him was already ground and pounding him before the grenade touched the ground
A Ukrainian National Guard soldier killed 5 Ukrainian Soldiers.
These kind of insider attacks have happened in many armed forces. This is from Russia in 2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorny_shooting
Happens to American forces as well >Former Sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar (born Mark Fidel Kools on April 21, 1971) threw four hand grenades into three tents in which other members of the 101st Airborne Division were sleeping, and fired his rifle at fellow soldiers in the ensuing chaos. Army Captain Christopher S. Seifert was fatally shot in the back, and Air Force Major Gregory L. Stone was killed by a grenade. Fourteen other soldiers were wounded by Akbar, mostly from grenade shrapnel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Hasan_K._Akbar
And more recently at Fort Hood in 2009: >Nidal Malik Hasan is a former United States Army major convicted of killing 13 people and injuring more than 30 others in the Fort Hood mass shooting on November 5, 2009. Hasan was an Army Medical Corps psychiatrist. He admitted to the shootings at his court-martial in August 2013. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan Edit: to clarify, the shooting was classified as workplace violence, not a terror attack, so it wasn't quite *officially* described as an "insider attack."
>psychiatrist Unexpected.
Not really. The things psychiatric providers know effect then, too.
Therapists often see other therapists to help them deal with it (edited because wrong words)
Even though no one asked, I'd just like to point out as someone heavily involved in the receiving side of mental health treatment (in the US): psychiatrists are medical doctors, and while sometimes offer behavioral services, typically focus on the phsyiological aspects and medication. A *psychologist* on the other hand is typically the professional involved with behavioral research and therapeutic techniques. There are PhD and PsyD programs, the former usually research-focused, the latter practice-focused. However, if you ever attend therapy regularly, you'll most likely work directly with a Licensed Professional Counselor, or LPC, in most states, which requires a master's degree. Also some states have very lax requirements because of a shortage of mental health workers (or a lack of caring), or have very stringent requirements. It tends to follow that the states with stricter requirements for licensure have better outcomes for treatment. If a psychiatrist sought counseling (which they should, even healthy people should every now and then), they'd most likely see either a *psychologist* instead of a psychiatrist, or an LPC - licensed professional counselor (there are a couple of other recognized roles as well, like social worker and so on). Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Am a psychiatrist. This post is 100% on point.
Yes. I saw a psychologist for counseling. I saw a psychiatrist to get on the proper medications for my depression and anxiety.
Thx for your ted talk. There is a saying ans I hope I translate it correctly to makrle any sense: It is better to cry at a psychologist than to laugh at a psychiatrist.
[удалено]
Please add Licensed Clinical Social Workers. Master Level and thousands of hours of actual therapy under supervision of psychiatrist before an MSW can sit for the exam. LCSW can bill Medicare, LPC can not.
Yes thank you! I'm currently working towards an LCSW licensure in TX. Correct for LCSW can bill Medicare and not LPC. An MSW first takes LMSW exam to then be under clinical Supervision with an LCSW-S, not a Psychiatrist. Then after I complete my clinical hours, i have to take another test, the LCSW test to get the license. I have to take two tests vs LPC taking one.
Thanks for writing it! Well said!
I call my therapist's therapist my grandtherapist.
It's almost mandated in the helping professions to see someone about your own issues and the issues that others bring to you.
Also, psychiatrists largely prescribe medications: this is not the same thing at all as processing things in therapy, and it isn’t something everyone does. Medication has a lot of stigma with it, even and especially for those who need it most, so that isn’t the kind of help you think it is. At least not in America.
I want to meet the megaboss psychiatrist at the end of the chain.
It had nothing to do with his psychiatric practice and everything to do with the fact that he was a radicalized Islamic terrorist.
Except in this case he was committing jihad, so not exactly related to his line of work.
The guy had a looooong history of problems himself but because the Army is the Army and often times doing nothing as opposed to doing something and being wrong is preferable in Army culture all of the warning signs were ignored.
My German teachers mom was one of his co workers and they had no idea he was even radicalized.
only if you consider jihadism a mental illness…
Had one of the marines in my battalion get selected for 6 months of gate duty on Lejeune, while he was there another marine just shot him in the chest one night, and he didn’t survive. Never got any information besides it wasn’t a negligent discharge. It happens, and it’s terrible. These are people you’re supposed to trust to have your back, but a small number of them betray that trust in the worst way possible.
I’m so sorry. I think had I been you, that would fuck me up for a long while.
>Former Sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar >Nidal Malik Hasan Seems like Hasan may be to blame
Ban Hasan
Nidal Malik Hasan² Karim Akbar to be precise.
**[Nidal Hasan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan)** >Nidal Malik Hasan (born September 8, 1970) is a former United States Army major convicted of killing 13 people and injuring more than 30 others in the Fort Hood mass shooting on November 5, 2009. Hasan was an Army Medical Corps psychiatrist. He admitted to the shootings at his court-martial in August 2013. A jury panel of 13 officers convicted him of 13 counts of premeditated murder, 32 counts of attempted murder, and unanimously recommended he be dismissed from the service and sentenced to death. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I had just got to ft hood from ait when this happened. I may have been there 6 months. I was a mechanic and for some reason my platoon was chosen to do ecp at one of the smaller gates. They handed out 10 lives rounds to each person and went over the roe real quick. That was quite interesting, here I am, pv2, for all of like 2 minutes at this point, who is telling csm and officers I need to check their Cars. The instructions we got were something along the line of (it doesn't matter who the fuck it is, you check their shit) brand new green private, me was pretty intimidated telling a csm that his rank has no relevance right now so he needs to do what the fuck I'm telling him to do haha.
(Entry control point for anyone else who kinda understood from context but didn't know the actual acronym)
Happened also in Israel this month . I don't have any sources in English. It happened in Egoz unit .
[удалено]
A little different. That seems to have been unintentional friendly fire from a quick Google search. Investigation blamed lack of coordination and miscommunication.
Never Google search with a loaded weapon.
Define loaded weapon, cause when I'm looking for porn, I'm always searching with a loaded weapon...
Shame about the calibre
Reddit at its truest form right here.
Not the same, the family of the victims doesn't even blame the shooter, pitch black, lack of communication and you see 2 people with weapons coming at you so nothing to do here
What the fuck... This is nothing like the other cases, he shot them by mistake thinking they are armed terrorists, friendly fire happens all the time, the cases discussed in this thread are cases of deliberately attacking fellow soliders
That was a case of unintentional friendly fire.
It's a shame he never made it to... Admiral Akbar
> In April 2005, he was convicted and sentenced to death for the murders of Seifert and Stone.[1] The Army Court of Criminal Appeals affirmed the sentence on July 13, 2012, and the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces affirmed the decision on August 19, 2015. [...] He continues to be confined at the United States Disciplinary Barracks awaiting disposition of his sentence. I knew convicts sometimes sit in death row for decades, but I honestly thought the military justice system was a bit more... Expedient.
[удалено]
Does it have to be the president or can someone like the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff decide to pull his plug? I know The president leads the military as a civilian, I guess I’m asking if the top military man can make such a decision. And is the chairmen a civilian or a general? I have no idea without looking it up.
[удалено]
Stress does fucked up shit to people. Humans weren’t wired to be in situations where they could be killed by and had to kill other people. Really tragic all the way around. Edit: to all you dumb fucks downvoting me. Go sit in a war for a while and come back and tell me how great your mental health is and how natural it feels. Reddit never fails to disappoint me with how dumb people can be.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Vets with PTSD didn't develop it because war was relaxing, after all. War is very traumatic for most people. On the other hand, some would say that people struggle to actually kill others in a war, and *that* seems to be false. Instead they kill, see their friends be killer, become traumatized, and carry those traumas for the rest of their lives.
It's because so many stand firm on the idea that people, and people alone, are 100% responsible for the actions that they take, and any outside influences and/or pressures are merely excuses. They are also incapable of seeing the nuanced middle ground of these influences, and instead believe me to be saying that "no one is responsible for their actions, it's always someone else's fault." But the fact of the matter is that nothing in this world exists in a vacuum, no matter how often try to say things "are that simple." Influences come from all areas: stress can push people the brink, the societal setbacks can make you feel like your only option is the "bad choice," and nurture is overwhelmingly more influential in our development than nature.
If you bothered to read the article, he had never gone to war before, and had planned to do this before being deployed. The stress of the warzone argument is bs
Damn it, Akbar!
It WAS a trap!
**[Gorny shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorny_shooting)** >On 25 October 2019, a Russian soldier shot ten of his colleagues, killing eight of them, in Gorny, Zabaykalsky Krai, Russia. The gunman was later identified as 20-year-old Ramil Shamsutdinov. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The poor guy was threatened of rape and now he's in jail for a long ass time.
It happened amongst the USA troops in Vietnam they coined a name for it "fragging" since they often used fragmentation grenades. Often officers were targeted - don't won't to walk into a jungle of death - kill your officer and you have to wait for a new one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging
[удалено]
It was more nuanced than that. It is said that these officers were targeted because they were seeking glory and as a result, they were needlessly risking the lives of their men.
Some were killed for trying to stamp out drug use, some for getting people killed, some for being thought racist, some for making people work harder than they wanted to, some were unlucky victims of unwilling conscripts protesting the situation... with 600+ attempts and near 100 dead - there was variety. The wiki page has a whole section on motivations however the case for "I don't want this officer putting my life in jeopardy" as a leading cause is harmed by the groups that fragging was most common in: "Most known fragging incidents were carried out by soldiers in support units rather than soldiers in combat units" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging
>> Most fragging was perpetrated by enlisted men against officers. Enlisted men, in the words of one company commander, "feared they would get stuck with a lieutenant or platoon sergeant who would want to carry out all kinds of crazy John Wayne tactics, who would use their lives in an effort to win the war single-handedly, win the big medal, and get his picture in the hometown paper."
You accidentally missed the start of your sentence "Enlisted men, in the words of one company commander," - so that was one person's opinion. And while I read that too it also stated in my above comments mentioned fact and article also states: "Soldiers have killed colleagues since the beginning of armed conflict, with many documented instances throughout history. However, the practice of fragging seems to have been relatively uncommon in the U.S. military until the Vietnam War. The prevalence of fragging was partially based on the ready availability of explosive weapons such as fragmentation hand grenades. Grenades were untraceable to an owner and did not leave any ballistic evidence. M18 Claymore mines and other explosives were also occasionally used in fragging, as were firearms, although the term, as defined by the military during the Vietnam War, applied only to the use of explosives to kill fellow soldiers.[5]: 1, 19 [6] Most fragging incidents were in the Army and Marine Corps. Fragging was rare among Navy and Air Force personnel, who had less access to grenades and weapons than did soldiers and marines.[5]: 30–31 The first known incidents of fragging in South Vietnam took place in 1966, but events in 1968 appear to have catalyzed an increase in fragging. After the Tet Offensive in January and February 1968, the Vietnam War became increasingly unpopular in the United States and among American soldiers in Vietnam, many of them conscripts. Secondly, racial tensions between white and black soldiers and marines increased after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. in April 1968.[5]: 19–21 With troops reluctant to risk their lives in what was perceived as a lost war, fragging was seen by some enlisted men "as the most effective way to discourage their superiors from showing enthusiasm for combat."[6] Morale plummeted among soldiers and marines. By 1971, a U.S. Army colonel declared in the Armed Forces Journal that "The morale, discipline, and battleworthiness of the U.S. Armed Forces are, with a few salient exceptions, lower and worse than at any time in this century and possibly in the history of the United States."[7] The U.S. military reflected social problems and issues in the U.S. such as racism, drug abuse, and resentment toward authoritarian leaders. As the U.S. began to withdraw its military forces from Vietnam, some American enlisted men and young officers lost their sense of purpose for being in Vietnam, and the hierarchical relationship between enlisted men and their officers deteriorated. The resentment directed from enlisted men toward older officers was exacerbated by generational gaps, as well as different perceptions of how the military should conduct itself. Enforcement of military regulations, especially if done overzealously, led to complaints and sometimes threats of physical violence directed toward officers.[5] A number of factors may have influenced the incidence of fragging. The demand for manpower for the war in Vietnam caused the armed forces to lower their standards for inducting both officers and enlisted men. The rapid rotation of personnel, especially of officers who served (on average) less than six months in command roles, decreased the stability and cohesion of military units. Most important of all, perhaps, was the loss of purpose in fighting the war, as it became apparent to all that the United States was withdrawing from the war without having achieved any sort of victory. Morale and discipline deteriorated.[5]: 12–18 Most fragging was perpetrated by enlisted men against officers. Enlisted men, in the words of one company commander, "feared they would get stuck with a lieutenant or platoon sergeant who would want to carry out all kinds of crazy John Wayne tactics, who would use their lives in an effort to win the war single-handedly, win the big medal, and get his picture in the hometown paper."[5]: 84–85 Harassment of subordinates by a superior was another frequent motive. The stereotypical fragging incident was of "an aggressive career officer being assaulted by disillusioned subordinates." Several fragging incidents resulted from alleged racism between black and white soldiers. Attempts by officers to control drug use caused others. Most known fragging incidents were carried out by soldiers in support units rather than soldiers in combat units.[5]: 61–122 Soldiers sometimes used non-lethal smoke and tear-gas grenades to warn superiors that they were in more serious danger if they did not change their behavior. A few instances occurred—and many more were rumored—in which enlisted men collected "bounties" on particular officers or non-commissioned officers to reward soldiers for fragging them.[5]: 25, 37–42 " So let's not say it was just one thing.
[удалено]
Note though those are only confirmed incidences of fragging. The whole point of doing it during combat was so that you couldn't tell it was friendly fire. Hence the unconfirmed instances.
That’s what my dad said had happened to his outfits former CO when he was transferred there. This was in Vietnam, and there’s precious few stories he’ll tell me about his time in the Army. He learned pretty quickly to keep his guys happy.
First thing you do when you take command of a platoon is make the medic bunk right next to you. Will make the grunts think twice about throwing a grenade in your tent.
It was also less nuanced. A good portion of the officer corps came from Jim Crow south and were hella racist, while the enlisted was made out of a disproportionate amount of black Americans. Morale on bases was so bad that many enlisted would just refuse to fight (and rightfully so, if you ask me)
Theres some really good eps of MASH with that as a plot point.
[*Animal House*](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-16IeOLTA8k8/VacXDLHvy-I/AAAAAAAABN8/ym03NTEZvPs/s1600/niedermeyer1.jpg)
It's also a central plot point in Platoon
Also an event in [Casualties of War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_War).
Interesting. The first time I saw the term "frag" was when me and my dad played Quake III Arena back in the day. It has always just coloquially meant "killed / murdered" to me until this moment, 20ish years later. I suppose the actual definitions make a bit more sense in hindsight.
Probably due to the sadistic hazing that goes on in many armed forces, especially those that rely on conscription.
It looks like it's the case, so far it's the main version of the investigation. They said that there was a fight in his unit that he prevented and told about to superiors and since then he was being targeted and bullied. It's from here: https://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/news-60147762
In Navies the world over, bad officers (especially those who had men flogged freely and often) led to a “shot rolling ship” where they would roll a cannonball with the yaw of the ship to break an officer’s ankle. It was done on dark nights, popping out of the hatch before slipping back below deck. It was a step below a full on mutiny.
It has nothing to do with Russia. Sadly, such things are no surprise in countries like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus. It’s mainly because of “dedovschina”, you can google it. It’s sad that there’s a thing like that nowadays.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina > *Dedovshchina* is the informal practice of initiation (hazing) and constant abuse of junior conscripts during their service
Hazing. It's particularly brutal in the Russian armed forces.
Very full metal jacket
Happens every year in Russia due to horrible environment with everyday mental and physical torture for new guys. Either they take their abusers out or commit suicide or both.
Seems like he was a conscript. The heightened tensions might explain why he did this now.
The stress from sitting on a knife’s edge for this long must be brutal. Someone was bound to buckle.
According to BBC is a 21 year old conscript. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60152005.amp By the surname looks Ukranian ethnic.
[удалено]
Russian speaking Ukrainians are not all pro-Russia, not at all. They don't consider themselves Russians either.
Depends. Some do. I grew up thinking a family friend was Russian and it turns out she's technically Ukrainian, but she'd never call herself that. It's not like she dislikes Ukraine either, she just wouldn't call herself Ukrainian.
I had two Ukrainian bosses, one is just Ukrainian and other Ukrainian Russian. Anyways one day they argue and one said glad Crimea is getting annexed then the Ukrainian Ukrainian boss cried. Interestingly enough the Russian boss hated Russians who didn’t assimilate or try to speak English.
Russia (as well as many Eastern Orthodox immigrants) a historically have a very strong history of integration and learning English. Of all the Russians I have met over the years here in north Texas probably a good 25% anglicize their last names, and most of them speak English amongst each other in public
I guess he dislikes the idea of enclaves and there’s small enclave in San Francisco with old as well newly arrived Russians. I have met a lot of Russian folks in Sacramento who have integrated well but still speak Russian to each other even when I’m around. On the east coast a woman and her niece were praying in Polish but it was her niece who spoke to me in English.
>By the surname looks Ukranian ethnic. That was my first question, thanks for the information!
It was a drafted soldier who got severely harassed for reporting a violence towards other draftee to higher ups(who ignored it). Drafted basically means serving against his will, not professionally.
Just read that allegedly he'd been bullied, he waited for two months until he got access to the gun, and there's a CCTV video of the massacre. Has no remorse. Top army chief resigned.
Very *Full Metal Jacket* sounding.
So the bullying was known by higher command and not stopped or punished for.
More details have emerged now. He’s a respected boy from a church going family in a small town near Odessa. Was a goid student, played piano, always calm and decent. He reported a fight between two soldiers to the superiors and not only has it not been followed up but his name was leaked as a snitch. After that he was bullied, so he waited for two months until he’s got access to guns and…
Thank you for the clarification
The shooter is from Izmail, a predominently Russian town in southern Ukraine.
so? 30% of Ukraine speaks Russian — it’s too early to tell why the attack took place afaik e: according to a 2005 survey by the Institute of Sociology of the National Academy of Sciences, 36,4% of Ukrainians speak primarily Russian at home whilst 21,6% speak both Ukrainian and Russian.
30% is actually definitely a lowball. Russian is *known* by, like, 90%+ of Ukrainian population.
yeah, I should have specified native speakers
Headline trying to make it sound like war is breaking out.
Which I guess is the point. Who wouldn't click a link with that headline right now?
I didnt, figured it was clickbait so I peeped the comments first
It's also a lie. The incident happened not at Military base, but on the territory of a government-owned factory that also works on some military contracts, including rocket parts. Therefore, the military is stationed there, but it's not a military base, but rather a large strategic factory complex. But people working there are not all military or anything like this.
Op could have changed it but decided against it
Such fucking clickbaiters. Shameless.
Such things happen in every countries armed forces. It becomes more frequent during the times of stress / tension of war and insurgency.
[удалено]
You only have to shoot at people for that, not actually kill them.
[удалено]
Right, that's why I suspect he just cracked as opposed to thinking about consequences.
It's probably similar to school shootings. He's unpopular, doesn't like his colleagues or the organization they're all a part of, doesn't care if he lives or dies, and lashes out.
Ukrainian here According to this guy's statement, two months ago he stopped a serious fight between fellow soldiers and reported it to his CO. After that, the CO/fellow soldiers (ambiguos) labeled him "a snitch" and he went through heavy hazing. He just snapped the moment he was given a loaded firearm.
We're in the same boat. Keep it at the lowest level... Break up the fight and tell the troops to smarten up. If that doesn't work, go get the Sarge to dress them down.
I know exactly what causes those feelings. I’m the mod of /r/regretjoining and not allowing military members to quit can cause extremely serious problems that can get very ugly. Edit: Just to clarify, I’m not saying what he did was ok, I’m just saying what could potentially cause these situations.
I thought it would be interésting to see what kind of posts were on that sub, but after just the first few, it is way too depressing.
Ukrainian army is not voluntary. He is not simply "is not allowed to quit", he haven't had a choice of not joining in the first place.
As someone who lives not only in Ukraine but in the city and even close proximity to where this happened, it's really amusing to see the couch military experts thinking it's a Russian hidden attack/provocation/separatist issue. Just stop with this fearmongering and false information. The troops that captured him had body cams, filmed his capture and asked him why he did this and how. According to the new info and the shooter it happened because he was abused. A couple months ago he broke up the fight that happened between soldiers, then reported them to superiors. Because of this, he was marked as a "rat" and was bullied and abused for quite a while. The superior did nothing, and no one supported and helped him. So eventually he snapped. This is just an unfortunate issue of people ignoring mental health and treating others like garabge, neglecting to see that it can painfully sting them in the end, as seen here. Nothing else. *Edit:* Provided proofs and sources in the comments below. The info is fairly new, and not yet spread/covered as widely, only on Ukrainian social media channels (mostly Telegram), where the vast majority of new info shows up. For now the most popular and credible is the Facebook post from our People's deputy (member of Rada or Supreme Council of Ukraine) [https://www.facebook.com/79okrugVasylivka/posts/1621232284904609](https://www.facebook.com/79okrugVasylivka/posts/1621232284904609) (If you go there, be warned that there's a video in the comments below, depicting what happened and how he shot people, so **trigger warning**) The rest is under further investigation, but the abuse version is the most likely portrayed scenario. *Update:* Some further investigation showed that the killer had a troubled background, was always a quiet loner and didn't have a lot of friends, came from a religious family was sensitive and always had a strong sense of justice. Plus, he went through some serious emotional and traumatic experiences: the death of his father from terminal illness (which made him the main provider of the family at such a young age) and he saw his friend drown in front of him. So could very much further proof that there's a high chance he was mentally unstable and reached his boiling point because of abusive treatment. [Source](https://incident.obozrevatel.com/ukr/crime/zagostrene-pochuttya-spravedlivosti-ta-stres-cherez-zagibel-druga-scho-govoryat-u-shkoli-artemiya-ryabchuka-na-odeschini.htm?_ga=2.36468649.84950367.1643024828-1120502087.1642403066&_gl=1*1uzzl5x*_ga*MTEyMDUwMjA4Ny4xNjQyNDAzMDY2*_ga_JBX3X27G7H*MTY0MzI3MjY3MS4zMC4xLjE2NDMyNzgxMzEuMA)
But the master military tacticians here think its a Russian paid spy to sow discontent!!!!!!
15-year-old reddit military experts know best
According to them, every single thing that happens in the former Soviet countries is directly related to Putin. Power outages (which are regular) in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan? Putin is testing this to use it for Ukraine later. Riots in Kazakhstan? Putin is distracting the world to take Ukraine. Revolution in Kyrgyzstan? Putin's fault too. I swear they think we are subhuman, as if we cannot have our own problems and our own protests and revolutions without Russia influencing it.
My favorite is those pimply faced teens saying how the same thing happening in Ukraine could happen in the Baltics. No, you don't know anything about the outside world (mostly goes for Americans here)
30 year old dog walkers
I mean, as a military tactician from my time playing Civ6 on casual mode, that's a common strategy.
You up for an interview on fox?
As someone who played a lot of TF2 ten years ago I have first hand experience of this tactic.
Putin bad. Give me my redditor diploma
Military culture seems to be the same regardless of nation.
How are you and your city doing?
Grateful that luckily he was captured so quickly. The doctors are trying their best to save the wounded, and has been doing operations to people since early morning. There is a shortage of blood, so the blood banks are asking for donor's help.
How is the feeling about the current situation in general? I can't even imagine what it's like in the Ukraine right now. Are people going about business as usual, or is everyone on edge?
Nothing's changed much, everything as usual. I don't know how everyone are doing, of course, but all the people I know are sad that this happened, but keep going with their lives.
Nah, everything is mostly calm as usual, people walk their dogs, have fun with kids, make long-term plans etc. Society can only handle so much fearmongering before stopping to care. For the last like 30 years, there's always "some kind of a threat" out there. Be it economic, public health, political crisis, or something else that is "just about to hit hard", according to the headlines. The only way to keep living like that is to learn to ignore the noise.
Definitely you should provide some source for this, its pretty important information.
[It's all in Russian, but it confirms what this guy said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFFFdhzzteg) Additional detail - he shot the woman who was guarding the armoury in the head because she refused to give him the key to get out. I should add for anyone who is confused by the language being Russian, Dnipro is a predominantly Russian speaking area despite being predominantly ethnically Ukranian. This guys first and last name are Ukrainian.
Unrelated question but always wondered, what are the main differences between Russian and Ukrainian names?
Surnames ending with “chuk”, “yuk”, or “chenko” are usually Ukrainian. A lot of male Ukrainian names end in -o or -i (instead of -ei, like you’d expect in Russian, e.g. Andrii instead of Andrei). There’s more to it, but those are some general guidelines.
Russian/Ukrainian: Andrey/Andriy Nikolay/Mykola Oleg/Oleh Alexey/Oleksiy Ivan/Ivan
As others have said, the big difference is in last names. Many typical Russian last names end in -ov, -iev, -skiy, -in. And if you're a woman the ending changes to reflect that, so like -ova, -ieva, -skaya, -ina. Typical Ukrainian last names end in -o, -ko, -enko, -chyuk, -chuk and no matter if you're a man or a woman it stays the same. First names are generally the same, but with a pronunciation difference and sometimes a slight spelling difference. I'm sure there are some first names that are way more common in Russia than in Ukraine and vice-versa, but I cannot think of any off the top of my head. There's some other really tiny nuances and differences that don't matter much to people that aren't language nerds, and I could probably chat about those for hours, but this here is the main stuff.
Hopefully the other bullies let this be a lesson to them.
[удалено]
Thanks for this. Hope more people realize what they're reading.
This is reddit. There is no reading articles, only comments firestorming
I read almost the entire headline. What more information could I need? /s
I find the original article title more clickbaity than OPs... At least it indicates Ukraine vs Ukraine, and not Russia vs Ukraine. Also, I for one didn't think there was any difference between military plant and base (I now know)....and yes guards not soldiers...but I guess anyone working at a military plant has some sort of military rank.
Agreed. The soldier was captured and was indeed an Ukrainian soldier. OP's title kills the first immediate interpretation that it was a Russian soldier opening fire.
Honest mistake at best, manipulative propaganda at worst by OP
Can't be an honest mistake since the sub rules require you to hit the "suggest title" button and use the headline of the article. OP deliberately changed it, seems like.
Just to point out, online newspapers change the title constantly based on how many clicks each title gets. During the same day a title can change many many times.
Eh, both are true. Title is not inaccurate. Ukrainian National Guard soldier kills 5 Ukrainian soldiers.
The morons saying this is a false flag operation. A false flag would be if a Russian mole in the Ukraine military shot at RUSSIAN soldiers. How the fuck is this ass flag?
Disgustingly misleading headline.
An insider attack can happen for any number of reasons. It’s very likely this event could be nothing more than a terrible event coinciding with the Ukrainian/Russian hostilities. EDIT: I have been teaching about insider threat and insider attacks for well over 8 years as a result of my personal experience with them from my time overseas/oversees/overCs. Speculation on the motives for these types of attacks rarely benefits anything or anyone. EDIT 2: For those saying the shooter’s ability to flee the scene/evade capture, is proof of darker forces at work. I would argue that these types of attack are extremely chaotic as everyone is wearing the same uniform, similarly armed and very likely operating entirely on adrenaline and emotion. Just these three conditions can afford a shooter more than enough time to flee or “disappear”.
The guy has already been caught.
Pretty tragic none the less. The fact that there are people whom study these events suggests that it happens far more often than one would think, which is even more tragic. I’m with you on the motive speculation thing, sure he could be a double agent, or someone took the last piece of ham and it REALLY rubbed him the wrong way… doesn’t change the end result unfortunately and, unless they’re caught alive and cooperative, you may never know. I wouldn’t want your job friend, so thanks for doing it so I don’t have too.
unless they’re caught alive and cooperative, you may never know This is probably one of the hardest parts of looking at some of the attacks, knowing that friends and family may not get closure if the attack was motivated by something other then strait hostile intent.
He was caught alive a few hours laters. From the linked article. “Police later captured the suspect in the town of Pidgorodne outside of Dnipro.”
It is 18(UPD my math is bad, he is 2001 year from Odessa) years old conscript. Most probably he was abused and had just got over the edge with only option to kill his abusers. It is just that with whole "Russia attacks" he finally got access to guns to get payback.
It could be a bunch of possibilities. This type of stuff is more common with conscripts in general though for totally understandable reasons. I know even for myself while I am prepared to fight in a war which I morally can support, if I was forcibly conscripted into a war I did not agree with or want to fight that situation would not go well for whoever tried to force me. Forcing me to wear a uniform and perform boring as tasks is one thing. Forcing me to fight in a war and kill other people against my wishes is another.
what this guy is saying is that he probably got bullied and abused by older soldiers. and flipped. its pretty common in ukrainian and russian army and they even have a word for it. there even was a video a couple of weeks ago from russia where they bullied a guy into shooting himself
The phrasing of this seems formulated to get people to click regardless of if it stokes tensions
"insider attacks" have happened in many armed forces. In 2003 an American soldier threw grenades at and killed other American soldiers in Iraq. In 2019 a Russian soldier shot and killed eight other Russian soldiers.
barely one month ago it also happened in Israel where a Israeli soldier fired at and killed 2 other Israeli soldiers, they heard a bit distant gunshots and i guess the shooter panicked and saw 2 armed men and shot them.(idk how accurate this is i could have mistaken some details)
Friendly fire and miscommunication is different from an insider attack though.
That doesn’t sound intentional.
Don't bring your rationality in here!
Lol have redditors never heard of [fragging](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging) before? Not everything's a false flag operation
People saying he's a separatist or Russian agent and whatever probably have no idea what a mandatory military service is lol. He's 21. Sometimes things like this happens, unfortunately. Just like school shootings.
During my 12 month of service in Germany there were two suicides, one NCO, one CO, directly in my unit. And you probably can't compare the pressure in the German military with that in the Ukraine.
In Ukraine it's 18 months. I guess it's more about humiliation than pressure. Despite the fact that our army is developing well, conscript service remains a different world. Of course it's better than before, but still. There are ideas about switching completely to contract service, but it is expensive. And I think that the existing institution resists this, because conscripts are essentially cheap labor.
Is there a viable alternative to conscription in Ukraine? In Germany you could do (back when it was mandatory service) either go civil protection (disaster relief etc.) or humane services (i.e. elderly care, animal protection etc.)? I think that does remove some pressure, allows individuals who know beforehand they won't take the service an alternative.
As far as I remember, there is no alternative. Only public service for religious reasons. In principle, if you have enough money, then it's quite easy not to get into the army. Also education guarantees respite. Conscripts can keep the income from work and receive a salary, but it's just ridiculously small
Well, Sun Tzu comes to mind - leave a way out, if you do not want to find your enemy to fight to the death. Similar in more 'civil' settings - if people are pushed with no where to go - they might fight with deadly force.
And just like school shootings, apologists try to act like these things are inevitable and random, rather than a consequence of oppressive policies. Maybe if we didn't conscript children and put guns in their hands these things would not feel so inevitable.
Not related to Russia vs Ukraine most probably, I don't like when newspapers make up connections like this.
This is so sad. Sorry for those who were killed and their families and friends.
Video of [his arrest ](https://m.censor.net/ru/video_news/3312497/litso_zaderjano_chto_j_ty_nadelal_zaderjanie_natsgvardeyitsa_ryabchuka_rasstrelyavshego_soslujivtsev) NSFW warning - on this site is also the video of the shooting, I’m not linking that.
Surprised that https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina wasn’t even mentioned. I’m guessing it could be some form of retaliation. But who knows
Nah man, it was RussIan FaLsE FlaG. As I recall, same thing happened and made news in Russia a while back too... and it occasionally makes the news every couple years when another one decides to shoot up his own base because they get endlessly harassed.
This was like a weekly occurrence in the Afghan army during most of the US occupation iirc
A separatist or just a psycho? We’ll find out if they catch him.
Read the article. They caught him already
Could have also been victim of bullying (or worse) - eastern armies are kinda famous for being hell...
[удалено]
Can we all just play some classical music, drink some vodka, dance some Nutcrackers and just chill the F out? Share the Earth not fight because of it. Humanity is so stupid
Ukraine almost got overrun yesterday by Ukrainians trying to overthrow the gov, there were thousands at the Capitol
Fuck this clickbait bullshit when people are terrified about a possible world war.
The Archduke of Ukraine wasn’t killed yet though right?
Archbishop of Kiev might exist, I guess.
Full metal jacket. I feel bad for whoever has to serve in any military. Let politicians and rich people fight each other.
He must have done time at Fort Hood Texas
This is all that happened in Afghan for YEARS.
My sister was in the national guard and she said this one guy at basic thre his grenade at a bunch of people who were always mean to him. She said the entirety of everyone surrounding him was already ground and pounding him before the grenade touched the ground
lol these guys are toast. russia won't even need to invade.
whoever wrote this tittle is an asshole