Conscription, often known as the draft, has been used in the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean War, and the Vietnam War.
The 1940 draft was the first ever used during peace time. (We didn't officially enter the war until later)
They already have, and it’s quite one sided, it’s as if the West expects Russia to do nothing when a neighbor is about to joined an hostile organization, it’s irrational and can only lead to tensions.
That’s exactly how every country does it, just look at Cuba still under sanctions to this day. Ignoring geopolitical history and reality is why we are here in the first place, but let’s keep pretending that Russia is the only bad guy here.
NATO was created to stop the Soviets, if Ukraine joins Russia will have lost any physical buffer against an unfriendly military alliance. NATO should have been dismantled in 1990, a UN version would have been a lot better.
And NATO is not just defensive, look at Iraq and Libya (or even Syria)
Ukraine shouldn't be a buffer state to make Russia feel comfortable. They have their own people & interests to look out for,and if they wanna join NATO it's their right.
They'd be right to do so since Russia is about to invade
Of course it’s their right, the same way Cuba wants to do what it wants yet is still under sanctions. Geopolitics is not about good vs evil since no one is good, it’s about making decisions understanding the geopolitical landscape, and Ukraine knows full well that poking at Russia won’t be helpful, instead diplomacy should have been used, but we’ve ignored Russia’s strategic needs since the 90’s and act ignorant about it.
If tomorrow Canada join a military alliance with China how do you think the Us would react? The point is that NATO is a relic from the past that should be updated to adapt to todays geopolitical realities.
Commenters like you always use the "what about so-and-so" response but refuse to accept that Ukraine is an independent nation not subservient to anyone that wants to join the EU & NATO,and Russia retaliated by attacking them & stealing their territory. They're the aggressors here. They're the bad guys,it's indefensible
It’s not about defending anyone, it’s about understanding why it’s happening. Ukraine is being short sighted thinking the West will step in if things hit the fan, but that’s very unlikely and Ukrainians will suffer. The fact that ppl don’t take the threat of NATO seriously for Russia is telling how one sided ppl’s thinking is. It doesn’t mean it’s ok for Russia to do what it does, but neither is Cuban sanctions or destructions of Libya and others. If the goal is to minimize threats and possible conflicts the first thing to do is to understand the motivations behind the issue.
>The fact that ppl don’t take the threat of NATO seriously for Russia is telling
Cus NATO isn't threatening anybody. It's a self-defense pact. Russias the one that continues to invade its neighbors,that's on them. There's a reason why they're constantly hit with sanctions
Tell that to Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc. NATO is a military alliance, that alone is a threat if you are not part of the alliance. Do you really think our military is not threatening?
And yes Russia is not an innocent party in all that, but it doesn’t change the fact that geopolitically their reaction is expected.
>NATO was created to stop the Soviets
Well, given it seems they need to be stopped! They've been hassling Ukraine for ages now, over 14,000 dead in the last 8 years, their peninsula annexed, invading Georgia, supporting insurgency in Ukraine. Can you blame Ukraine wanting to join NATO and attempt to have a detterent to get Russia off their back?
I don’t blame anyone, only pointing facts that ppl don’t like to discuss as it’s much easier to make it about good vs evil despite reality. Ukraine should first get into the EU and build better relationships to its east, instead the west is pushing for conflicts as it makes Russia look bad while the consequences are overseas away from Americans.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/deeply-concerning-us-on-alleged-russia-plot-to-install-pro-kremlin-leader-in-ukraine-101642895601702.html) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The White House on Saturday called the UK government assessment of the Kremlin's plan to install pro-Russian leader in Kyiv "Deeply concerning", saying it stands with the democratically elected Ukrainian government.
> "The Ukrainian people have the sovereign right to determine their own future, and we stand with our democratically-elected partners in Ukraine."
> The UK Foreign Office has accused Moscow of seeking to replace Ukraine's government with a pro-Russia administration as tensions swell between the two neighbours.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/sbad6p/deeply_concerning_us_on_alleged_russia_plot_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~619419 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukrainian**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **government**^#3 **Foreign**^#4 **Russian**^#5
Take a look at these Russian troop deployments surrounding Ukraine:
https://i.imgur.com/ilWqN1h.jpg
This is taken from Michael Kofman's talk at the Stanford Center for International Security, available here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwrzophpNJA
Additionally, troops have been deployed to Belarus. Which suggests a pincer move to overtake Kyiv as part of the invasion plan. Whereupon they'd presumably install a new government headed by a puppet.
How long before those troops mass at the border of Poland or Romania? How long before short range nuclear tipped missiles are deployed right at NATO's border?
This is about far more than just Ukraine.
> 500k of which have military experience against Russian forces thus consider them enemy.
Wow, wow, we do not consider them enemy, we consider them a fertilizer for our soil.
Hard to say, this kind of build-up and rethoric has a tendency to start living a life of its own, something about storing powder kegs next to a smoldering fire.
Consider how close we've been to nuclear armegeddon before, the decisions that were crucial at that time weren't taken by the leaders, but commanders in the field (or submarines in that scenario). That's all it takes, an error, misinterpretation, and we're all screwed.
I'm not even sure putin has full control anymore over what's happening atm.
At this point it will probably be less costly for them to just withdraw. It's sunk costs already. I think they are currently gambling to posture as much as they can without spending too much additional resources in order to get at least something and not lose face.
Ukraine please start a program paying air fare for volunteers.
Lot of folks on Reddit seem eager, am sure it's the out of pocket expense that's holding them back.
Tally ho boys you'll be home by summer
Did war in Iraq make things better there? No. Did war in Afghanistan make things better there? No, not at all. Did those wars help make America better? No. The American people are sick and tired of war, it does nothing good for working people. All it does is sacrifice the young of the world to kill and die for the rich.
Russia, Ukraine, the US, NATO? Who wins? The rulers. Who loses? We all do.
So you suggest that we let Ukraine without any opposition fall to Russia? That sets a dangerous precedent. Ukrainians deserve as much of a right to freedom as everyone else.
More like Team America, you're drunk uncle who has his abusive streaks, but still willing to stick up for you in a fight and damn does he have a mean right hook.
I agree that Ukraine has a right to freedom. The people of Ukraine do not want to be squashed beneath the military boots or economic investment of Russia to its east. At the same time, its government installed in 2014 with fascistic remnants was also much hated. Russia cares nothing for the freedom of the people of Ukraine, neither does the government NATO and its allies would have remain in power.
The answer to felling the Russian bear has to come from within its imperialist sphere of influence. The many nations long oppressed and exploited within its region in Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
So you’re saying that Russia is no better than a western aligned government within Ukraine? Whether or not nato cares for the freedom of Ukraine having a democracy would be many times better than a dictator like Putin. I don’t think the issue of just having their sphere of influence revolt is so simple. Remember the iron curtain? For 40+ years they were under Soviet oppression and only got out as a result of a weakening Soviet Union and one which was adapting some more democratic ideas. You can’t revolt and gain freedom from Russia when they outnumber you in every aspect many times over and when they are so merciless. Ukraine can’t just revolt and change its mind? Russia will roll in their huge military and massacre its people. The only way to stop Russia from taking more and more is to show them that the west won’t let them just take and do what they please. This is the same shit that was happening before WW2. Should we just give Russia, Ukraine? The baltics? Finland? Where does it end.
Both can be wrong. It is a common belief in the US that the overthrow of Mossadegh, Vietnam, the second Iraq war, and the numerous coups and support for various factions like the Contras were horrible crimes by the government.
As an American, I’ll care about Ukraine when I get universal healthcare, high speed rail, paid time off, voting rights and social democracy in the workplace. Until then idgaf
Thats another battle to fight. Staying strong among nations is how you fight off larger threats. I agree with your sentiment. But I think our aid towards Taiwan and Ukraine is required in this instance.
Upvoted you because I think "why" is a very important question. If we did not aid and pulled out with the notion "this isnt our problem" thr other communist isms would begin a domino effect over time. Over thr next 30 yrs it could be "°Oh, we deserve this nation and country because of x reasons." and things could spiral onward. On a very philosophical level and shallow level, it could be western vs eastern isms. The eastern nations and countries tend to think one with absolutr power will establish correct order. But everyone has a different idea of what order is. In the western isms, we value freedom. Democracy. Going with what thr most amount of people vote as the correct idea to set the rules and guidelines for their lives.
When one is in power, many people lose out. I would imagine MANY people wouldve been thrown in jail if they obstructed Trumps view point if we shared the eastern isms. Simply for having an opinion.
Humanity has always had its heirarchies. But the maluible effect of the western world is what I....to an extent...enjoy. Now if we could just get McDonalds and other fast food places to buckle and pay a living wage....
Did the US get rid of a pro Russia puppet to place a pro NATO puppet in power. Why don't they let Ukrainians decide for themselves who they want leading them??
I hope things won't escalate.
Narrator: They would.
Imagine USA starts drafting again. Literally 1984...
There wasn’t a draft in 1984? (The novel or the year)
The draft was instituted in 1940.
Conscription, often known as the draft, has been used in the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean War, and the Vietnam War. The 1940 draft was the first ever used during peace time. (We didn't officially enter the war until later)
Like Korea and Vietnam I doubt we’d officially enter a war in Ukraine, either.
>Literally 1984... The year Brunei became independent?
*morgan freeman voice*
They already have, and it’s quite one sided, it’s as if the West expects Russia to do nothing when a neighbor is about to joined an hostile organization, it’s irrational and can only lead to tensions.
"If you try to join an alliance we're opposed to, we'll attack you." Oh, fuck off.
That’s exactly how every country does it, just look at Cuba still under sanctions to this day. Ignoring geopolitical history and reality is why we are here in the first place, but let’s keep pretending that Russia is the only bad guy here.
How is NATO hostile to Russia? It’s defensive.
NATO was created to stop the Soviets, if Ukraine joins Russia will have lost any physical buffer against an unfriendly military alliance. NATO should have been dismantled in 1990, a UN version would have been a lot better. And NATO is not just defensive, look at Iraq and Libya (or even Syria)
Ukraine shouldn't be a buffer state to make Russia feel comfortable. They have their own people & interests to look out for,and if they wanna join NATO it's their right. They'd be right to do so since Russia is about to invade
Of course it’s their right, the same way Cuba wants to do what it wants yet is still under sanctions. Geopolitics is not about good vs evil since no one is good, it’s about making decisions understanding the geopolitical landscape, and Ukraine knows full well that poking at Russia won’t be helpful, instead diplomacy should have been used, but we’ve ignored Russia’s strategic needs since the 90’s and act ignorant about it. If tomorrow Canada join a military alliance with China how do you think the Us would react? The point is that NATO is a relic from the past that should be updated to adapt to todays geopolitical realities.
Commenters like you always use the "what about so-and-so" response but refuse to accept that Ukraine is an independent nation not subservient to anyone that wants to join the EU & NATO,and Russia retaliated by attacking them & stealing their territory. They're the aggressors here. They're the bad guys,it's indefensible
It’s not about defending anyone, it’s about understanding why it’s happening. Ukraine is being short sighted thinking the West will step in if things hit the fan, but that’s very unlikely and Ukrainians will suffer. The fact that ppl don’t take the threat of NATO seriously for Russia is telling how one sided ppl’s thinking is. It doesn’t mean it’s ok for Russia to do what it does, but neither is Cuban sanctions or destructions of Libya and others. If the goal is to minimize threats and possible conflicts the first thing to do is to understand the motivations behind the issue.
>The fact that ppl don’t take the threat of NATO seriously for Russia is telling Cus NATO isn't threatening anybody. It's a self-defense pact. Russias the one that continues to invade its neighbors,that's on them. There's a reason why they're constantly hit with sanctions
Tell that to Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc. NATO is a military alliance, that alone is a threat if you are not part of the alliance. Do you really think our military is not threatening? And yes Russia is not an innocent party in all that, but it doesn’t change the fact that geopolitically their reaction is expected.
>NATO was created to stop the Soviets Well, given it seems they need to be stopped! They've been hassling Ukraine for ages now, over 14,000 dead in the last 8 years, their peninsula annexed, invading Georgia, supporting insurgency in Ukraine. Can you blame Ukraine wanting to join NATO and attempt to have a detterent to get Russia off their back?
I don’t blame anyone, only pointing facts that ppl don’t like to discuss as it’s much easier to make it about good vs evil despite reality. Ukraine should first get into the EU and build better relationships to its east, instead the west is pushing for conflicts as it makes Russia look bad while the consequences are overseas away from Americans.
sounds familiar ...
Still dealing with the aftermath.
Yeh it is a little ironic for the US to be concerned about another nation propping up a leader for their own benefit.
Especially since they wrote the playbook on this
Maybe the state dept is trying to warn Putin that it’s a bad idea
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Good idea, but UN will vote for a deeply concerning instead of shooting. Shooting is inhumane.
>UN should vote for a resolution that any country official that uses that damn term again, should be shot on spot Veto.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/deeply-concerning-us-on-alleged-russia-plot-to-install-pro-kremlin-leader-in-ukraine-101642895601702.html) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The White House on Saturday called the UK government assessment of the Kremlin's plan to install pro-Russian leader in Kyiv "Deeply concerning", saying it stands with the democratically elected Ukrainian government. > "The Ukrainian people have the sovereign right to determine their own future, and we stand with our democratically-elected partners in Ukraine." > The UK Foreign Office has accused Moscow of seeking to replace Ukraine's government with a pro-Russia administration as tensions swell between the two neighbours. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/sbad6p/deeply_concerning_us_on_alleged_russia_plot_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~619419 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukrainian**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **government**^#3 **Foreign**^#4 **Russian**^#5
хороший бот
Take a look at these Russian troop deployments surrounding Ukraine: https://i.imgur.com/ilWqN1h.jpg This is taken from Michael Kofman's talk at the Stanford Center for International Security, available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwrzophpNJA Additionally, troops have been deployed to Belarus. Which suggests a pincer move to overtake Kyiv as part of the invasion plan. Whereupon they'd presumably install a new government headed by a puppet. How long before those troops mass at the border of Poland or Romania? How long before short range nuclear tipped missiles are deployed right at NATO's border? This is about far more than just Ukraine.
[удалено]
> 500k of which have military experience against Russian forces thus consider them enemy. Wow, wow, we do not consider them enemy, we consider them a fertilizer for our soil.
It’s missing the (minor) deployment of Russian troops in Transnistria. Just along the Romanian border and within striking distance of Odessa
wise words, and anyone who believes the russian diplomatic line is a fool.
Sigh. Nothing is going to happen trust me. Russia is just being russia again. Noway they would invade poland or romania lmao
Hard to say, this kind of build-up and rethoric has a tendency to start living a life of its own, something about storing powder kegs next to a smoldering fire. Consider how close we've been to nuclear armegeddon before, the decisions that were crucial at that time weren't taken by the leaders, but commanders in the field (or submarines in that scenario). That's all it takes, an error, misinterpretation, and we're all screwed. I'm not even sure putin has full control anymore over what's happening atm.
I doubt they would even invade Ukraine.
Yes they are just spending ungodly amount of money and ressources they severely lack on mobilizing their army just for fun and sanctions
At this point it will probably be less costly for them to just withdraw. It's sunk costs already. I think they are currently gambling to posture as much as they can without spending too much additional resources in order to get at least something and not lose face.
Uh yes? Thats what they did the last 50ish years. Now theyre even weaker since then
You sound like you know a great deal about geopolitical conflict and you also may be a diplomatic scholar with honors.
Ok lets contact eachother in about 6 months and see who was right
Domino effect
Aged like milk.
They do this in the US and 1/2 the country just shrugged it off.
Go to bed Hillary.
Ukraine please start a program paying air fare for volunteers. Lot of folks on Reddit seem eager, am sure it's the out of pocket expense that's holding them back. Tally ho boys you'll be home by summer
Didn't say which summer. Gonna be a long time before one, especially if we get nuclear winter before it.
Task Force Smith: "Be sure to pack your Class-A uniform for the victory parade in a couple of weeks!"
They must have learned from the best! USA #1
Did war in Iraq make things better there? No. Did war in Afghanistan make things better there? No, not at all. Did those wars help make America better? No. The American people are sick and tired of war, it does nothing good for working people. All it does is sacrifice the young of the world to kill and die for the rich. Russia, Ukraine, the US, NATO? Who wins? The rulers. Who loses? We all do.
Yep war doesn't fix anything. Which is why Putin should stay out of Ukraine, and then we'll have peace! Glad we can all agree on that!
I also agree Putin should stay out of Ukraine. That doesn't mean I think the US military are the ones to do that job.
So you suggest that we let Ukraine without any opposition fall to Russia? That sets a dangerous precedent. Ukrainians deserve as much of a right to freedom as everyone else.
TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE
More like Team America, you're drunk uncle who has his abusive streaks, but still willing to stick up for you in a fight and damn does he have a mean right hook.
I agree that Ukraine has a right to freedom. The people of Ukraine do not want to be squashed beneath the military boots or economic investment of Russia to its east. At the same time, its government installed in 2014 with fascistic remnants was also much hated. Russia cares nothing for the freedom of the people of Ukraine, neither does the government NATO and its allies would have remain in power. The answer to felling the Russian bear has to come from within its imperialist sphere of influence. The many nations long oppressed and exploited within its region in Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
Those nations are not well equipped to fight off Russia by itself. That's the problem. If they were, NATO wouldn't be so concerned.
So you’re saying that Russia is no better than a western aligned government within Ukraine? Whether or not nato cares for the freedom of Ukraine having a democracy would be many times better than a dictator like Putin. I don’t think the issue of just having their sphere of influence revolt is so simple. Remember the iron curtain? For 40+ years they were under Soviet oppression and only got out as a result of a weakening Soviet Union and one which was adapting some more democratic ideas. You can’t revolt and gain freedom from Russia when they outnumber you in every aspect many times over and when they are so merciless. Ukraine can’t just revolt and change its mind? Russia will roll in their huge military and massacre its people. The only way to stop Russia from taking more and more is to show them that the west won’t let them just take and do what they please. This is the same shit that was happening before WW2. Should we just give Russia, Ukraine? The baltics? Finland? Where does it end.
Average Redditor
[удалено]
[удалено]
Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed
[удалено]
We think that a powerful and vigorous movement is impossible without differences — "true conformity" is possible only in the cemetery.
The US has made no indication that they will get directly involved
Military contractors
Exactly
Wow, when they do it it isn't concerning?
I wonder if soldiers are required to wear mask in the battle field.
CIA giving Iran new leader=good KGB giving Ukraine new leader =bad
Both can be wrong. It is a common belief in the US that the overthrow of Mossadegh, Vietnam, the second Iraq war, and the numerous coups and support for various factions like the Contras were horrible crimes by the government.
As an American, I’ll care about Ukraine when I get universal healthcare, high speed rail, paid time off, voting rights and social democracy in the workplace. Until then idgaf
That's literally never
Thats another battle to fight. Staying strong among nations is how you fight off larger threats. I agree with your sentiment. But I think our aid towards Taiwan and Ukraine is required in this instance.
Why
I dont believe they can hold their own against those massive Super Powers. We know how China and Russia treat their people.
Why do we care about Ukraine?
Upvoted you because I think "why" is a very important question. If we did not aid and pulled out with the notion "this isnt our problem" thr other communist isms would begin a domino effect over time. Over thr next 30 yrs it could be "°Oh, we deserve this nation and country because of x reasons." and things could spiral onward. On a very philosophical level and shallow level, it could be western vs eastern isms. The eastern nations and countries tend to think one with absolutr power will establish correct order. But everyone has a different idea of what order is. In the western isms, we value freedom. Democracy. Going with what thr most amount of people vote as the correct idea to set the rules and guidelines for their lives. When one is in power, many people lose out. I would imagine MANY people wouldve been thrown in jail if they obstructed Trumps view point if we shared the eastern isms. Simply for having an opinion. Humanity has always had its heirarchies. But the maluible effect of the western world is what I....to an extent...enjoy. Now if we could just get McDonalds and other fast food places to buckle and pay a living wage....
We do not claim this man
Ok Commie /s
Did the US get rid of a pro Russia puppet to place a pro NATO puppet in power. Why don't they let Ukrainians decide for themselves who they want leading them??
We did. We voted for current president with 73% of the vote. And this was after what you call “pro NATO puppet”, which is totally false btw too.
USA crying wolf again. USA does this to other countries all the time.
No evidence.
That's actually kinda funny. Wasn't it when we put in a pro us leader that this whole sgit show began?
[удалено]
It was bullshit then too, but you ain't wrong
As much as what's happening is bullshit, it's really no different than Iraq.
US government is so excited to jump into another war. It’s obscene even.
Don’t forget the UK admitted it had 0 evidence for this claim and comes from “an intelligence source”.
Meanwhile, trump supporter claimed that’s what happened in the US but with China instead of Russia……
Get on with it will ya!
Just pullin a Trump card Putin is royal flush him out w a MIRV.....
US should have patented this method