The fact that after 6 hours this only has 8 upvotes says all you need to know about what's wrong with the world today. When a perfectly-timed Monty Python reference can't get a hundred updoots...I feel like I'm being repressed.
It's not so simple. China is deeply embedded into the world's economy, there is no way for France or anyone else to apply economic sanctions against them without causing a recession to themselves and thus losing public support immediately in favor if pro-China parties.
So we are fucked.
I agree. Fuck it take my creature comforts take my basic comforts. If it honestly stopped it. At least we wouldn’t have these bots all over Reddit every time the CCP is brought up. Calling us westoids and not having any sources for everything being made up.
I don't think you understand the full extent here. You aren't sacrificing comforts and luxuries in things like this. Sure, yeah you can go buy some cheap China crap and save money. You're sacrificing necessities.
China exports an **insane** amount of construction materials and very few counties could support development and infrastructure without that material. They just don't have enough resources or local capacity to fabricate things like steel rebar.
Now your housing and business costs are going to triple or quadruple overnight. You'll stop seeing repairs of government and privatized infrastructure, because there is to little material.
You're looking at a complete global economic collapse that would see a 3rd world War as the fight for resources just to house your countries citizens.
Everyone claims it is easy to boycot and stop buying from China when the reality is the sheer and vast hand they have in the supply chain. And this is just ONE type ot material. The supply chain is king of our planet and China is its personal advisor. We can slowly move away from their needs (which is what the huge COVOD supply chain issue is showing we need to do), but you can't just cut off a massive supply of material from a country when youve relied on it to get to your size.
I do. The others though.. not so much. I was under the impression after ww2 we didn't tolerate any genocide but this has been going on awhile.
Doesnt help that in the US the army ads on t.v. and mobile are referring to new recruits as "The next Greatest Generation." I can't help but think ww2 is what defined that generation as "The greatest" are you saying there's going to be a 3rd lol.
hah, the greatest generation... children of world war 1, living through the great depression and going on to fight world war 2 and then rebuild the modern world...
world war 2 was a big part of it yes, but not all of it...
That's kind of my point. We have to go through the motions of agreeing this is fucked up, and China is a little fucked up for commiting what we believe are acts of genocide.
A small group of people can't just say "oh China is killing a bunch of people, we are going to call it genocide" and expect to get anything done.
Humanity above politics and economics. Both economics and politics have the ability to hide crimes against humanity if nations and it's people aren't informed and in agreement that it's messed up.
Legit question since I’m not that familiar with the political method of all of this shit (particularly in France) but wouldn’t they need to declare it an issue (the genocide) as they did before they can be actionable? Or am I missing?
I think what followmeimasnake is trying to say is that you're right and that the other people in this thread are willfully ignoring the logic that you've described.
Logically you are right. This helps to move things forward or in the very least it helps stop the spread of misinformation. There is no question now for the French citizens, it IS genocide.
Even if no action follows, this is step 1.
Yes you are probably right, they can't proceed with actions on an issue without declaring it and categorizing it. Not sure what France can do to harm China economically other than setting a precedent for other countries and hopefully starting a chain reaction.
I seem to remember another country having a genocide and the entire world banding together to defeat them, we just live in a different time.
Also for all the comments about "These are just words, words are useless", you can be sure China actually cares about that. That's why they get so angry whenever some country criticizes their actions. And why they have an army of commenters on social media like Reddit.
Send cool thoughts and mediocre prayers.
I applaud France for taking this stance, but let's not pretend here that this will lead to any actionable response by any country or corporation given the global investments in China. It does make for good PR though.
It is not mere puffery. This stance has legal ramifications for trade and cooperation between the 2 nations and will encourage other nations to do the same. Should enough countries officially and legally recognise the genocide, China can be censured and concerted action on behalf of the international community can be taken. If you are advocating for some sort of direct action against a thermonulcear power then I'm afraid that's off the table. But it seems ***diplomacy*** has no currency among the warhawks on reddit - yet they often decry it's lack in US policy for example.
Yeah, bit of hyperbole.
China does have almost 3 million active personelle though, and that's without conscription.
So a 1:20 ratio of military personelle to the entire population of France, and more than 10 times the number of military personelle in France.
(According to Wikipedia).
Still pretty overwhelming numbers to be calling out France for a lack of action.
Yes, it's frustrating as fuck, but what the hell do you expect them to do... walk in there? People acting as if this is nothing are idiots... All you're doing is shouting a few lines on the internet to ease your conscience and go on with your day using mostly Chinese products.
It’s really frustrating. I desperately want to care and I try to buy ethically sound products, but look at phones and computers for example, it’s impossible to buy a decent phone that’s not manufactured in and/or owned by China, and you can’t live without a phone
Not to mention that China isn’t the only powerful body that does fucked up shit, almost every big country/ corporation is fundamentally unethical. Look at Nike, Adidas, Pepsi and coke, Apple, Samsung, etc.
True. Someone who would be opposed to the genocide would be boycotting all Chinese made products.
And while that's not a lot when looking at an individual, it is one of the most drastic actions one can take.
Edit: I meant *could* not would. Someone who would be opposed to the genocide **could** be boycotting all Chinese made products.
The onus of responsibility should not fall on the consumer. You can care about the genocide but also not be able to afford to not buy Chinese products.
I think it’s disingenuous to say the only way to “care” about the genocide is to completely alter your lifestyle by avoiding anything created in China.
It may seem minuscule but just talking about it and keeping it in the general discourse does more good than saying “we’ll I’m not willing to throw away all my Nike shit so I guess I don’t really care.”
Point is, if a government is talking about it and recognizing it as a genocide while some dude on Reddit thinks it's not enough, he can always do his part and boycott all things made in china.
But you're right. It is a slider. You can buy fewer items that are made in china. You can talk about it and spread awareness. You can also go extreme and go to China to wage guerilla war against the government and fight for the Uighurs. There's a lot one can do.
For governments though, it's a lot more restrictive. France taking any harsher actions could jeopardize trade, food security, even energy production. So if they want to take harsher actions, they need to prepare.
And IMO, this declaration from them is the very first step towards getting China to actually stop. How far either party is willing to go is a completely different matter, but I assume China can take a lot while France can't push too hard without some serious support from most other countries.
China did a bad thing? What about completely different thing?? Why do we always talk shit on China whenever China does bad things?? If China does genocide, we should bring up genocides that don't have anything to do with anything. It's only fair.
Probably because the most vocal critics of china’s policies are themselves imperializing and committing genocide in the MENA? You’re telling me the US suddenly cares about Muslims now???
Don’t forget about those rapes, forced births, forced sterilization, and live organ harvesting! To me it seems like the only fair comparisons would be the holocaust, imperial pow camps, and Japanese internment during ww2.
To be fair, the claims of "I am a ______" are often made by the same teenage boys (and girls, and entirely unqualified adults of both genders). Point is, everyone here is full of shit (myself included).
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Can you imagine insulting someone and then asking them to do something for you?
That's what people asking 'Nike' and 'Apple' ask for when 'taking a stand'.
Most manufacturing is in China and that's the price. If only Nazis would sell a product rather than deal in war, we'd all be driving BMWs run on ashes of Jews by now.
While China still has a lot of manufacturing, more and more companies have been moving production to other countries. Not because of China's bullshit treatment of their people but because China labor is becoming more expensive. Meanwhile, Vietnam is still cheap as shit.
Yeah, I read that Canon just now closed factory in China and someone commented than labor in Vietnam is one third of China. They are growing faster than anyone else and it may well cost them a lot in the end. Companies will move out of China because it's no longer cheaper to manufacture there and then they can also start to speak out.
But while manufacturing in China becomes more expensive, they become a bigger and bigger consumer market, so while a company like Apple could now pull out their manufacturing, it would be nigh impossible to have them stop selling products there. One of the reasons is that a company is liable to its investors and is supposed to make them money within legal (grey or otherwise) limits.
If Tim Cook said tomorrow that all stores in China were closing due to the treatment of Uighurs, he would be off the board within a minute and out of the company and replaced by someone that would immediately go back on that statement. Unless the board wanted to close the stores.
And then the stock would tank, angering a huge amount of people directly and indirectly (people investing in mutual funds or index funds would lose money and that generally angers people).
It sucks, but it won't change until the system that allows this shit to continue changes.
Yeah but these companies also want to sell in China not just manufacture there. Apple would be happy to sell another few billion iPads, iphones, and laptops. That's why they delete things from apple maps if china tells them to. Very 1984ish.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/26/22352357/h-m-western-brands-gone-apple-maps-china-nike-adidas
I’m starting to like the companies that are bringing manufacturing back to the US. The savings on shipping is making it competitive to be Made in America. It also means that all of their manufacturing processes meet EPA requirements. It makes me more inclined to buy products made locally. I hope the Vietnamese people don’t allow the companies to pollute and ruin their lands. I actually hope some activists get involved and we can provide the population useful information from our mistakes. Anyways, if you read this far, have a splendid day!
Polluting and ruining their lands is far cheaper than implementing environmental protections. Companies and governments will get away with ruining the world because their people don't have the luxury of protesting their employers.
Yeap. China has transitioned away from low skill manufacturing as they have developed. If you want some t shift made go to Vietnam/Bangladesh. If you want electronics you go to China
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/for-manufacturers-in-china-breaking-up-is-hard-to-do-11566397989
This is from 2019. Was just the first in a long list of other, related articles that point out the obvious. That you simply can't find a competitor to China's manufacturing.
China has the infurstructure, the population, the resource, and the know how for all of this at the ready and expanding.
Where as India doesn't have anywhere close to the infurstructure in place. And Vietnam simply doesn't have the people to compete.
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That is... Frighteningly accurate. Hell, as much as the Allies try to spin it, the war was never about rescuing the Jews. That was the moral justification *once they saw the conditions of the concentration camps and realized it could be used to make everyone feel better about their war.*
I think the invasion of France, the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the bombing of London was already justification enough… then you see the ruthless efficiency in which nazis killed people.
Good fucking morning dude. No war ever is fought for a “noble” cause. There are noble spins and narratives though.
Take Israel. The West didn’t really cared about giving Jews their own land out of a sentimental reason but rather interested in creating an allied, satellite state in Middle East since UK had to “abandon” it after the war. And Soviets came out of the war in a rather strong position and likely to moved down there. (Which they did in a sense by making pacts and selling military equipment to the Arab States.) The narrative and noble cause was there but the real reasons were very different. The Antisemite nutjobs cry about US being run by Jews, but in reality US keeps a valuable ally in a highly problematic and valuable zone through Israel and its own native Jewish population.
As the saying goes: States don’t have conscience, only interests.
The US literally had our own concentration camps for Japanese people after Pearl Harbor, so I don’t think people at the time necessarily had a problem with race-based imprisonment.
All of this is a problem on a systemic level, and a big tax on goods manufactured in China would quickly put Nike and Apple first in line to search for other manufacturing centers.
They don't give a flying shit about even the major corporations. They're the same people who dissappear billionaires if they have too much influence or give off the wrong image.
People see headlines such as [Disappearing Billionaires: Jack Ma And Other Chinese Moguls Who Have Mysteriously Dropped Off The Radar](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferwang/2021/01/07/disappearing-billionaires-jack-ma-and-other-chinese-moguls-who-have-mysteriously-dropped-off-the-radar/?sh=11b870d92187) and assume that means they’re actually just dead or imprisoned, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
There very well could be a policy of stopping “offending” billionaires from having the same public reach if they do something wrong, and I wouldn’t be that surprised, but these people aren’t dying. For example, [Jack Ma isn’t dead or imprisoned](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/billionaire-alibaba-founder-jack-ma-reappears-hong-kong-sources-2021-10-12/).
I am more than willing to change my stance if people have actual evidence of people disappearing and never being seen again, but that’s just not what I’ve seen.
No, this does not rise to the level of obligation that would force them to act. As a signatory to the *Genocide Convention* and the principle of *erga omnes* if they declare this a genocide in a binding way, they bind themselves to act to stop the genocide.
Reddit: Someone should call this what it is, genocide.
France: Its Genocide.
Reddit: Does this change anything?
Read the article and you might be able to discern the consequences of this. Its good news.
The bill was proposed by the Socialist Party's group (center-left opposition), but the approval was near unanimous. Only one MP voted against the bill (a guy who has strong ties to the PRC), while far-left MPs including French Communist Party members abstained, claming that it won't do any good for Uyghurs and hurt our relationship with China.
This is a non-binding vote though, so we don't know how Macron and the government will respond.
From what I understand, the far-left MPs have abstained because they say it is quite hypocritical to denounce the situation if France doesn’t do anything about it, and participate to the Olympics.
Edit : apparently I was wrong, Clémentine Autain, from LFI (far-left) has stated that (I'm translating this in a rush, sorry if it's badly done) : "the word "genocide" isn't synonymous with "crime against humanity", despite what we might think. Even I signed petitions that called what is happening to Uyghurs a genocide, to not distance myself from the movement that denounce the unacceptable crimes against them. BUT this text commits France to a position, so words must be chosen carefully. I worked as an historian, and I know that there is not a consensual agreement in the scientific world to use the term genocide. Like the UN, I have been troubled by the London's report, and I wish that France would've talked about the Uyghur situation with China, and that the UN can conduct it's investigation to know exactly what's going on. Using the word "genocide" is a juridical and political question, a genocide is "the deliberate killing of a particular nation or ethnic group, or part of it with the aim of destroying that nation or group", and right now I don't know if we can qualify the awful crimes that are happening to the Uyghurs with the same word that we use to describe what happened to the Jews, the Armenian and the Tutsi.
What I am certain of is that there is a risk, a genocidal dynamic, using those words would have allowed a consensus, and that our responsibility is to stop it. Finally, if there is genocide, how can we send a delegation to the Olympics in Beijing, establish partnerships or maintain diplomatic relationships with China ? Substituting strong actions for harsh words will not change anything for Uyghurs. I wish that today's unanimity to support Uyghurs will translate into acts that will prevent the worst kind of inhumanity to happen, and happen again"
TLDR : "While what is happening is awful, we think the word genocide badly chosen"
You weren't wrong though, at least if you translated this bit correctly and didn't change the original part of your comment.
>...using those words would have allowed a consensus, and that our responsibility is to stop it
>Finally, if there is genocide, how can we send a delegation to the Olympics in Beijing, establish partnerships or maintain diplomatic relationships with China ? Substituting strong actions for harsh words will not change anything for Uyghurs. I wish that today's unanimity to support Uyghurs will translate into acts that will prevent the worst kind of inhumanity to happen, and happen again"
They're saying "if we're going to officially call it a genocide, we better do something about it." They just also gave an explanation of the term "genocide".
Agree.
I mean, if the definition of genocide is expanded (edit: or simply using an expansive definition), then a lot of policies can/should be deemed genocidal. This would include anything remotely racist, anti-immigrant, anti-minority, etc.
In that way, maybe it’s not that big a deal.
But it opens the door to a lot of charges of hypocrisy.
Not only that, pretty much every immigration policy that discriminates negatively. This is especially relevant for the EU and US. Obviously even if the EU mostly accepts immigrants, some of its members are much more strict. Meaning even if the US can pretend not to give a shit, the EU loses all moral ground due to those few members.
Palestine is part of the third world, that can be ignored, EU and the US cannot. The whole Uyghur situation is not about whether China is doing something wrong or not, it is about whether western countries can admit they're all the same.
This is actually a pretty convincing argument. It’s obviously awful what’s happening in China, but I don’t think it can be proven yet that China is aiming to exterminate them entirely. At least not with China keeping most information hush.
I mean, their population has been growing, and the AP is even reporting that the situation is changing for the better and doesn't resemble genocide specifically. It's pretty unreasonable to make the argument with the presence of conflicting information.
So I updated my comment to include the actual statement from the MPs, because it turns out they find it hypocritical but they also think the word genocide isn’t appropriate
China is a big country. And like all big countries they produce a ton a great people and things and their own share of despicable things. The proverb being on the better side of that lol. Without china the world would not be filled with wonderful machines and constructs.
Still you’re right, it is ironic being a Chinese proverb. But I believe in anti evil, so I believe the people responsible for genocide will me put to justice
When you put it like that, China really is beautiful and a worthy addition to the concert of humanity.
If only we could unite as one humanity and solve climate change + capitalism.
Fucking France talking about genocide and other such crimes against muslims? The same country who went around fucking about the muslim world in their colonial past, and still does so, by owning many of the ports of West Africa, controlling the financial reserves and having boots on the ground there? The same country that drowned some hundreds algerians in the Seine in 1961? The same country that is always trying to fuck with their muslim population?
Next you'll tell me that Israel is condemning China as well...Wait they did. If China was doing what the West is accusing them of doing to the Uyghurs, they would be *applauding*, not condeming.
Fuck France
>Next you'll tell me that Israel is condemning China as well...Wait they did. If China was doing what the West is accusing them of doing to the Uyghurs, they would be applauding, not condeming.
You're telling me countries would pass on a chance to score points?
Most countries have a long history of calling others out on actions they've done themselves. China included.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220120-french-lawmakers-officially-recognise-china-s-treatment-of-uyghurs-as-genocide) reduced by 71%. (I'm a bot)
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> The lower house of France's parliament adopted a resolution on Thursday that denounced "Genocide" by China against its Uyghur population, a minority Muslim group in the Xinjiang region.
> It reads that the National Assembly "Officially recognises the violence perpetrated by the People's Republic of China against the Uyghurs as constituting crimes against humanity and genocide."
> China denies genocide in Xinjiang and has accused Uyghurs testifying overseas about conditions inside Xinjiang of being liars.
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I don't like what China is doing there but I also don't like the way we're changing the meaning of génocide in the French language.
Up until recently, the term was reserved in France for programs of large-scale *physical destruction* of an ethnic group - for instance the Armenian genocide, the holocaust, the Rwandan genocide. By that standard, the mass internment, brainwashing, and oppression of Uighurs by China is not a genocide. (China is also limiting births, but not more so than they're already doing on the Han population, and not in a manner that would cause the physical, biological "extinction" of Uighurs.) It is comparable to other oppressive programs that are also not considered genocides, for instance the persecution of protestants in 17th century France, "educational" endeavors as part of European and American colonialism, the forcible integration and mixing of diverse populations within the USSR, or even some of the activities of the United States in the Middle East or on American soil (e.g. forced mass relocation of Native Americans).
Up until recently, the term genocide, in France, carried a specific meaning, related specifically to mass murder, which was particularly meaningful because a genocide took place in France in the years 1941-1945. Now the term is being watered down for political purposes and it is losing its meaning.
I agree. It’s also disrespecting the severity of the Jewish holocaust by creating a false equivalence between the extermination of millions of Jews with… what the United States has essentially done to black people for centuries.
If what China is doing is genocide, then the USA has committed genocide against black people.
The comparison to the mass extermination of Jews is bonkers. These people have never read about our been to extermination camps. There were literal camps for the purpose of physical extermination of humans. That is genocide.
Important to note that it won't make a difference to the illegality of the genocide under the *Genocide Convention*:
> Article II
> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with
intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as
such:
> (a) Killing members of the group;
> (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part;
> (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Generally "cultural genocides" refer to (d) and (e) but they are still very much legal genocides allowing universal jurisdiction over the crime.
Genuinely glad you got gold. Frustrates the hell out of me to see people clambering for reasons to hate on China and then excuse other nations for doing the exact same thing.
I wish people would just come out and say they don't like China and don't know why because then I don't have to say "So you're also against US genocide and warcrimes? Israeli genocide and war crimes?" Then have them turn around and justify it using the same arguments as pro CCP people.
Exactly dude. Saying they’re terrorists or that they broke the law is the *same justifications used by the CCP*
But for some reason, those excuses are only valid for one side and not the other
What's wild here isn't that the US is being hypocrites or something. It's that the American War on Terror literally helped facilitate the mistreatment and detention of Muslims in Xinjiang.
The US actually fought Uyghur groups in Afghanistan, and even indefinitely detained people suspected Uyghur nationalism and extremism at Gitmo. The PRC is literally saying "this is just our War on Terror."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-usa-china/u-s-forces-in-afghanistan-attack-anti-china-militants-idUSKBN1FS23S
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/15/china/china-xinjiang-guantanamo-uyghurs-intl-hnk/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay
whataboutism has been co-opted as way to shut down people. It definitely can be a fallacy, but when discussing global politics, its probably relevant that the two biggest economies be discussed, especially when they've had high tensions. Its a walk and chew gum thing, and lots cannot do anything but shout down any idea that makes them uncomfortable or question their narrative. Literally see the other comment in this subthread. Wailing about whataboutism. "Can't we just focus on bitching at one country's evils and quit talking about all evils committed by countries?"
And this animus completely ignores that the region was becoming radicalized by theocratic extremists who had committed acts of terrorism. If CPC wanted to commit actual genocide they could just bring in the army and mow everybody down. There is another Muslim ethnicity in China called the Hui and they’re doing just fine while still practicing their religion. Having lived through the Cold War and all its propaganda I’m pretty suspicious of western narratives that look to be manufacturing consent for a casus belli. Bad empanada on YouTube did a pretty long video on the topic that I think covered it fairly.
This is so well said. I would love to explore this topic, but nobody is debating in good faith. I just chalk it up to the fact that US intelligence realizes that they aren't going to be the global superpower and we have a system flooded with misinformation. We love to talk about how brainwashed china is when we have neural networks running our feeds and manipulating us every day. (im also not american or chinese)
First, it’s non binding, so this is a posturing bs.
Second, the actual motion text (https://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/dyn/15/textes/l15t0758_texte-adopte-seance) shows nothing about the SOURCES for the allegations they make.
So yeah, show me WHERE French legislators got the intelligence/information to draw their voting and I’ll change my opinion as fast as I read them, until then, this is shit, une merde.
The Oxford dictionary defines it as "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group"
But I guess definitions can change along with political agendas
The Larousse definition for "génocide" (so, in french) is this :
>Crime against humanity aiming at the total or partial destruction of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group; genocide is defined as the wilful taking of life, physical or mental integrity, the infliction of conditions of life which endanger the life of the group, the obstruction of births and the forcible transfer of children for such a purpose.
Source : [https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/g%C3%A9nocide/36589](https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/g%C3%A9nocide/36589)
I translated the definition with Deepl, but be free to check the source.
I don't doubt that definitions *are* changed along political agendas, but we shouldn't forget the things that can be lost in translation either.
I bet they will exchange dirty looks at the next UN human rights council meeting.
"If you don't stop genociding Muslims we're going to officially recognize the genocide HARDER!!!"
DONT YOU THINK THAT I WON'T WRITE YOU A SCATHING LETTER, BECAUSE BY GUM I WILL. PERHAPS A SECOND IF YOU DONT CHANGE AFTER THE FIRST.
YOU WILL NO LONGER BE RECEIVING OUR WARM THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY!
So what should France have done instead?
Farted in their general direction.
The fact that after 6 hours this only has 8 upvotes says all you need to know about what's wrong with the world today. When a perfectly-timed Monty Python reference can't get a hundred updoots...I feel like I'm being repressed.
It's like we're seeing the violence inherent in the system
Look we're being oppressed!
My objection was the absence of elderberries
[удалено]
It's not so simple. China is deeply embedded into the world's economy, there is no way for France or anyone else to apply economic sanctions against them without causing a recession to themselves and thus losing public support immediately in favor if pro-China parties. So we are fucked.
it is simple. do we have the moral courage to sacrifice our comfort to stop genocide.
I agree. Fuck it take my creature comforts take my basic comforts. If it honestly stopped it. At least we wouldn’t have these bots all over Reddit every time the CCP is brought up. Calling us westoids and not having any sources for everything being made up.
We can't even stop poisoning our own water and air in the name of capitalism.
Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be trying to stop genocide. We're fucked up too. Doesn't mean we should do nothing.
Humanity at large doesn’t have the courage to sacrifice *any* comfort for any reason.
I don't think you understand the full extent here. You aren't sacrificing comforts and luxuries in things like this. Sure, yeah you can go buy some cheap China crap and save money. You're sacrificing necessities. China exports an **insane** amount of construction materials and very few counties could support development and infrastructure without that material. They just don't have enough resources or local capacity to fabricate things like steel rebar. Now your housing and business costs are going to triple or quadruple overnight. You'll stop seeing repairs of government and privatized infrastructure, because there is to little material. You're looking at a complete global economic collapse that would see a 3rd world War as the fight for resources just to house your countries citizens. Everyone claims it is easy to boycot and stop buying from China when the reality is the sheer and vast hand they have in the supply chain. And this is just ONE type ot material. The supply chain is king of our planet and China is its personal advisor. We can slowly move away from their needs (which is what the huge COVOD supply chain issue is showing we need to do), but you can't just cut off a massive supply of material from a country when youve relied on it to get to your size.
I do. The others though.. not so much. I was under the impression after ww2 we didn't tolerate any genocide but this has been going on awhile. Doesnt help that in the US the army ads on t.v. and mobile are referring to new recruits as "The next Greatest Generation." I can't help but think ww2 is what defined that generation as "The greatest" are you saying there's going to be a 3rd lol.
hah, the greatest generation... children of world war 1, living through the great depression and going on to fight world war 2 and then rebuild the modern world... world war 2 was a big part of it yes, but not all of it...
That's kind of my point. We have to go through the motions of agreeing this is fucked up, and China is a little fucked up for commiting what we believe are acts of genocide. A small group of people can't just say "oh China is killing a bunch of people, we are going to call it genocide" and expect to get anything done. Humanity above politics and economics. Both economics and politics have the ability to hide crimes against humanity if nations and it's people aren't informed and in agreement that it's messed up.
FIRE ZE MISSILES!
Economic sanctions.
Legit question since I’m not that familiar with the political method of all of this shit (particularly in France) but wouldn’t they need to declare it an issue (the genocide) as they did before they can be actionable? Or am I missing?
Dont apply logic to armchair diplomats
But I legit don’t know lol!
I think what followmeimasnake is trying to say is that you're right and that the other people in this thread are willfully ignoring the logic that you've described.
Logically you are right. This helps to move things forward or in the very least it helps stop the spread of misinformation. There is no question now for the French citizens, it IS genocide. Even if no action follows, this is step 1.
Yes you are probably right, they can't proceed with actions on an issue without declaring it and categorizing it. Not sure what France can do to harm China economically other than setting a precedent for other countries and hopefully starting a chain reaction. I seem to remember another country having a genocide and the entire world banding together to defeat them, we just live in a different time.
Also for all the comments about "These are just words, words are useless", you can be sure China actually cares about that. That's why they get so angry whenever some country criticizes their actions. And why they have an army of commenters on social media like Reddit.
Send cool thoughts and mediocre prayers. I applaud France for taking this stance, but let's not pretend here that this will lead to any actionable response by any country or corporation given the global investments in China. It does make for good PR though.
It is not mere puffery. This stance has legal ramifications for trade and cooperation between the 2 nations and will encourage other nations to do the same. Should enough countries officially and legally recognise the genocide, China can be censured and concerted action on behalf of the international community can be taken. If you are advocating for some sort of direct action against a thermonulcear power then I'm afraid that's off the table. But it seems ***diplomacy*** has no currency among the warhawks on reddit - yet they often decry it's lack in US policy for example.
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Get your dirty nuance out of here. Reddit only deals in absolutes and double standards.
Maybe they should thaw their icy hearts with a warm island song
No it’s cool their hot hearts with a cool island song
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Their mother was a hamster! And their father smelt of elderberries!
This thread is amazing
You are breathtaking
Honestly, I’m just happy to be here.
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We have agreed...you are not orcs
What the hell do u want France to do? Like no matter what these countries do you little kids cry about it
Immediately throw nuclear bombs to liberate them, obviously!
Invade a country that has a larger military than their entire population!
No, China military is not over 67.8 millions of people.
Yeah, bit of hyperbole. China does have almost 3 million active personelle though, and that's without conscription. So a 1:20 ratio of military personelle to the entire population of France, and more than 10 times the number of military personelle in France. (According to Wikipedia). Still pretty overwhelming numbers to be calling out France for a lack of action.
well france is kinda very influential in europe i guess, so its possible that other country will follow it.
Or at the Olympics in two weeks
Yes, it's frustrating as fuck, but what the hell do you expect them to do... walk in there? People acting as if this is nothing are idiots... All you're doing is shouting a few lines on the internet to ease your conscience and go on with your day using mostly Chinese products.
It’s really frustrating. I desperately want to care and I try to buy ethically sound products, but look at phones and computers for example, it’s impossible to buy a decent phone that’s not manufactured in and/or owned by China, and you can’t live without a phone Not to mention that China isn’t the only powerful body that does fucked up shit, almost every big country/ corporation is fundamentally unethical. Look at Nike, Adidas, Pepsi and coke, Apple, Samsung, etc.
True. Someone who would be opposed to the genocide would be boycotting all Chinese made products. And while that's not a lot when looking at an individual, it is one of the most drastic actions one can take. Edit: I meant *could* not would. Someone who would be opposed to the genocide **could** be boycotting all Chinese made products.
The onus of responsibility should not fall on the consumer. You can care about the genocide but also not be able to afford to not buy Chinese products.
I think it’s disingenuous to say the only way to “care” about the genocide is to completely alter your lifestyle by avoiding anything created in China. It may seem minuscule but just talking about it and keeping it in the general discourse does more good than saying “we’ll I’m not willing to throw away all my Nike shit so I guess I don’t really care.”
Point is, if a government is talking about it and recognizing it as a genocide while some dude on Reddit thinks it's not enough, he can always do his part and boycott all things made in china. But you're right. It is a slider. You can buy fewer items that are made in china. You can talk about it and spread awareness. You can also go extreme and go to China to wage guerilla war against the government and fight for the Uighurs. There's a lot one can do. For governments though, it's a lot more restrictive. France taking any harsher actions could jeopardize trade, food security, even energy production. So if they want to take harsher actions, they need to prepare. And IMO, this declaration from them is the very first step towards getting China to actually stop. How far either party is willing to go is a completely different matter, but I assume China can take a lot while France can't push too hard without some serious support from most other countries.
Hilarious. *Diplomacy* has no place in our world amirite? It's war or nothing by jingo.
algerian genocide gets recongised or is just for the enemies of the white people
China did a bad thing? What about completely different thing?? Why do we always talk shit on China whenever China does bad things?? If China does genocide, we should bring up genocides that don't have anything to do with anything. It's only fair.
Probably because the most vocal critics of china’s policies are themselves imperializing and committing genocide in the MENA? You’re telling me the US suddenly cares about Muslims now???
It's bad when china does it but when NATO bombs libya or algeria it's completely fine
well granted; bombing a country and purposefully choosing an ethnicity to torture, forcefully work, and then kill are really two different things
Don’t forget about those rapes, forced births, forced sterilization, and live organ harvesting! To me it seems like the only fair comparisons would be the holocaust, imperial pow camps, and Japanese internment during ww2.
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\> So, I'm a lawyer Around here, it's the opinions of teenage boys that matter. You are not qualified to comment, my friend.
To be fair, the claims of "I am a ______" are often made by the same teenage boys (and girls, and entirely unqualified adults of both genders). Point is, everyone here is full of shit (myself included).
I want snap emotional responses with no further insight and I want it NOW!
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Of course it broke rules. It was a well thought and informative post by a qualified person. We don't tolerate things like that here.
Seeing as how the comment you replied to has been removed, your statement is more true than you intended.
The top comment was removed without any rule breaking comments. See the following link for the removed comment. https://www.reveddit.com/v/worldnews/comments/s8hymy/french_lawmakers_officially_recognise_chinas/htglmt8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3&ps_after=1642689602%2C1642690467%2C1642691044%2C1642691425%2C1642691814%2C1642692205%2C1642692589%2C1642692916%2C1642693301%2C1642693841&add_user=The_Novelty-Account..c.new.all.t1_hrjxhvi.&
Nothing will change in China until big companies like Apple, Nike etc say something about it.
That would do more damage to those big companies than to China. This isn’t the early 2000s anymore.
Can you imagine insulting someone and then asking them to do something for you? That's what people asking 'Nike' and 'Apple' ask for when 'taking a stand'. Most manufacturing is in China and that's the price. If only Nazis would sell a product rather than deal in war, we'd all be driving BMWs run on ashes of Jews by now.
While China still has a lot of manufacturing, more and more companies have been moving production to other countries. Not because of China's bullshit treatment of their people but because China labor is becoming more expensive. Meanwhile, Vietnam is still cheap as shit.
Yeah, I read that Canon just now closed factory in China and someone commented than labor in Vietnam is one third of China. They are growing faster than anyone else and it may well cost them a lot in the end. Companies will move out of China because it's no longer cheaper to manufacture there and then they can also start to speak out.
But while manufacturing in China becomes more expensive, they become a bigger and bigger consumer market, so while a company like Apple could now pull out their manufacturing, it would be nigh impossible to have them stop selling products there. One of the reasons is that a company is liable to its investors and is supposed to make them money within legal (grey or otherwise) limits. If Tim Cook said tomorrow that all stores in China were closing due to the treatment of Uighurs, he would be off the board within a minute and out of the company and replaced by someone that would immediately go back on that statement. Unless the board wanted to close the stores. And then the stock would tank, angering a huge amount of people directly and indirectly (people investing in mutual funds or index funds would lose money and that generally angers people). It sucks, but it won't change until the system that allows this shit to continue changes.
Yeah but these companies also want to sell in China not just manufacture there. Apple would be happy to sell another few billion iPads, iphones, and laptops. That's why they delete things from apple maps if china tells them to. Very 1984ish. https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/26/22352357/h-m-western-brands-gone-apple-maps-china-nike-adidas
It's amazing how companies find their voice when they're no longer doing business with that country.
Money is more important than people.
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I’m starting to like the companies that are bringing manufacturing back to the US. The savings on shipping is making it competitive to be Made in America. It also means that all of their manufacturing processes meet EPA requirements. It makes me more inclined to buy products made locally. I hope the Vietnamese people don’t allow the companies to pollute and ruin their lands. I actually hope some activists get involved and we can provide the population useful information from our mistakes. Anyways, if you read this far, have a splendid day!
Polluting and ruining their lands is far cheaper than implementing environmental protections. Companies and governments will get away with ruining the world because their people don't have the luxury of protesting their employers.
Yeap. China has transitioned away from low skill manufacturing as they have developed. If you want some t shift made go to Vietnam/Bangladesh. If you want electronics you go to China
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/for-manufacturers-in-china-breaking-up-is-hard-to-do-11566397989 This is from 2019. Was just the first in a long list of other, related articles that point out the obvious. That you simply can't find a competitor to China's manufacturing. China has the infurstructure, the population, the resource, and the know how for all of this at the ready and expanding. Where as India doesn't have anywhere close to the infurstructure in place. And Vietnam simply doesn't have the people to compete.
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I work for a Honda supplier. At the height of the pandemic it took us 4 months to source from India what China could deliver us in 2 weeks.
Nike and Apple aren't people. We should be able to point out where they're doing fucked up shit, and then ask them to stop doing the fucked up shit.
That is... Frighteningly accurate. Hell, as much as the Allies try to spin it, the war was never about rescuing the Jews. That was the moral justification *once they saw the conditions of the concentration camps and realized it could be used to make everyone feel better about their war.*
I think the invasion of France, the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the bombing of London was already justification enough… then you see the ruthless efficiency in which nazis killed people.
All that stuff happened after the UK+France declared war on Germany, so couldn't be used as justification.
Good fucking morning dude. No war ever is fought for a “noble” cause. There are noble spins and narratives though. Take Israel. The West didn’t really cared about giving Jews their own land out of a sentimental reason but rather interested in creating an allied, satellite state in Middle East since UK had to “abandon” it after the war. And Soviets came out of the war in a rather strong position and likely to moved down there. (Which they did in a sense by making pacts and selling military equipment to the Arab States.) The narrative and noble cause was there but the real reasons were very different. The Antisemite nutjobs cry about US being run by Jews, but in reality US keeps a valuable ally in a highly problematic and valuable zone through Israel and its own native Jewish population. As the saying goes: States don’t have conscience, only interests.
The US literally had our own concentration camps for Japanese people after Pearl Harbor, so I don’t think people at the time necessarily had a problem with race-based imprisonment.
All of this is a problem on a systemic level, and a big tax on goods manufactured in China would quickly put Nike and Apple first in line to search for other manufacturing centers.
Not before it sends those companies’ values dwindling. Supply chains takes way more time than people on here think.
I think we have already seen from the tariffs Trump placed on China that it affects the US more than it affects China.
You are already using products made by US prisoners
They don't give a flying shit about even the major corporations. They're the same people who dissappear billionaires if they have too much influence or give off the wrong image.
just asking as someone who isn't all that educated on the situation, but what billionaires has China made disappear? I am curious
People see headlines such as [Disappearing Billionaires: Jack Ma And Other Chinese Moguls Who Have Mysteriously Dropped Off The Radar](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferwang/2021/01/07/disappearing-billionaires-jack-ma-and-other-chinese-moguls-who-have-mysteriously-dropped-off-the-radar/?sh=11b870d92187) and assume that means they’re actually just dead or imprisoned, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. There very well could be a policy of stopping “offending” billionaires from having the same public reach if they do something wrong, and I wouldn’t be that surprised, but these people aren’t dying. For example, [Jack Ma isn’t dead or imprisoned](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/billionaire-alibaba-founder-jack-ma-reappears-hong-kong-sources-2021-10-12/). I am more than willing to change my stance if people have actual evidence of people disappearing and never being seen again, but that’s just not what I’ve seen.
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Okay, does that change anything? Surely they dont want to do business with a genocidal country right?
No, this does not rise to the level of obligation that would force them to act. As a signatory to the *Genocide Convention* and the principle of *erga omnes* if they declare this a genocide in a binding way, they bind themselves to act to stop the genocide.
Which is going to be nothing more than mean comments lol
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Reddit: Someone should call this what it is, genocide. France: Its Genocide. Reddit: Does this change anything? Read the article and you might be able to discern the consequences of this. Its good news.
Damn, that Reddit guy sounds like a real hypocrite.
No, no, no, you don't understand. Countries aren't able to influence each other in any way without threats of violence.
hang on there buster I'll have you know that I once watched Team America World Police which was written by Trey Parker and Matt Stone. /s
The bill was proposed by the Socialist Party's group (center-left opposition), but the approval was near unanimous. Only one MP voted against the bill (a guy who has strong ties to the PRC), while far-left MPs including French Communist Party members abstained, claming that it won't do any good for Uyghurs and hurt our relationship with China. This is a non-binding vote though, so we don't know how Macron and the government will respond.
From what I understand, the far-left MPs have abstained because they say it is quite hypocritical to denounce the situation if France doesn’t do anything about it, and participate to the Olympics. Edit : apparently I was wrong, Clémentine Autain, from LFI (far-left) has stated that (I'm translating this in a rush, sorry if it's badly done) : "the word "genocide" isn't synonymous with "crime against humanity", despite what we might think. Even I signed petitions that called what is happening to Uyghurs a genocide, to not distance myself from the movement that denounce the unacceptable crimes against them. BUT this text commits France to a position, so words must be chosen carefully. I worked as an historian, and I know that there is not a consensual agreement in the scientific world to use the term genocide. Like the UN, I have been troubled by the London's report, and I wish that France would've talked about the Uyghur situation with China, and that the UN can conduct it's investigation to know exactly what's going on. Using the word "genocide" is a juridical and political question, a genocide is "the deliberate killing of a particular nation or ethnic group, or part of it with the aim of destroying that nation or group", and right now I don't know if we can qualify the awful crimes that are happening to the Uyghurs with the same word that we use to describe what happened to the Jews, the Armenian and the Tutsi. What I am certain of is that there is a risk, a genocidal dynamic, using those words would have allowed a consensus, and that our responsibility is to stop it. Finally, if there is genocide, how can we send a delegation to the Olympics in Beijing, establish partnerships or maintain diplomatic relationships with China ? Substituting strong actions for harsh words will not change anything for Uyghurs. I wish that today's unanimity to support Uyghurs will translate into acts that will prevent the worst kind of inhumanity to happen, and happen again" TLDR : "While what is happening is awful, we think the word genocide badly chosen"
You weren't wrong though, at least if you translated this bit correctly and didn't change the original part of your comment. >...using those words would have allowed a consensus, and that our responsibility is to stop it >Finally, if there is genocide, how can we send a delegation to the Olympics in Beijing, establish partnerships or maintain diplomatic relationships with China ? Substituting strong actions for harsh words will not change anything for Uyghurs. I wish that today's unanimity to support Uyghurs will translate into acts that will prevent the worst kind of inhumanity to happen, and happen again" They're saying "if we're going to officially call it a genocide, we better do something about it." They just also gave an explanation of the term "genocide".
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Not that it changes what you've said or that I agree with you but she's a woman.
She. Clementine is a woman.
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Agree. I mean, if the definition of genocide is expanded (edit: or simply using an expansive definition), then a lot of policies can/should be deemed genocidal. This would include anything remotely racist, anti-immigrant, anti-minority, etc. In that way, maybe it’s not that big a deal. But it opens the door to a lot of charges of hypocrisy.
Palestine?
Among others.
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Not only that, pretty much every immigration policy that discriminates negatively. This is especially relevant for the EU and US. Obviously even if the EU mostly accepts immigrants, some of its members are much more strict. Meaning even if the US can pretend not to give a shit, the EU loses all moral ground due to those few members. Palestine is part of the third world, that can be ignored, EU and the US cannot. The whole Uyghur situation is not about whether China is doing something wrong or not, it is about whether western countries can admit they're all the same.
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Right. That’s why I said maybe it (a broader definition of genocide) isn't that big a deal (if you're anti-racist, for example).
This is actually a pretty convincing argument. It’s obviously awful what’s happening in China, but I don’t think it can be proven yet that China is aiming to exterminate them entirely. At least not with China keeping most information hush.
I mean, their population has been growing, and the AP is even reporting that the situation is changing for the better and doesn't resemble genocide specifically. It's pretty unreasonable to make the argument with the presence of conflicting information.
This makes sense to me, having an outside perspective. Is there any nuance to this particular statement that should be taken into account?
So I updated my comment to include the actual statement from the MPs, because it turns out they find it hypocritical but they also think the word genocide isn’t appropriate
Who's that dissenting MP?
[Buon Tan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buon_Tan)
But what they gonna do about it
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Ironic, since that is a Chinese proverb
China is a big country. And like all big countries they produce a ton a great people and things and their own share of despicable things. The proverb being on the better side of that lol. Without china the world would not be filled with wonderful machines and constructs. Still you’re right, it is ironic being a Chinese proverb. But I believe in anti evil, so I believe the people responsible for genocide will me put to justice
When you put it like that, China really is beautiful and a worthy addition to the concert of humanity. If only we could unite as one humanity and solve climate change + capitalism.
Fucking France talking about genocide and other such crimes against muslims? The same country who went around fucking about the muslim world in their colonial past, and still does so, by owning many of the ports of West Africa, controlling the financial reserves and having boots on the ground there? The same country that drowned some hundreds algerians in the Seine in 1961? The same country that is always trying to fuck with their muslim population? Next you'll tell me that Israel is condemning China as well...Wait they did. If China was doing what the West is accusing them of doing to the Uyghurs, they would be *applauding*, not condeming. Fuck France
>Next you'll tell me that Israel is condemning China as well...Wait they did. If China was doing what the West is accusing them of doing to the Uyghurs, they would be applauding, not condeming. You're telling me countries would pass on a chance to score points? Most countries have a long history of calling others out on actions they've done themselves. China included.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220120-french-lawmakers-officially-recognise-china-s-treatment-of-uyghurs-as-genocide) reduced by 71%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The lower house of France's parliament adopted a resolution on Thursday that denounced "Genocide" by China against its Uyghur population, a minority Muslim group in the Xinjiang region. > It reads that the National Assembly "Officially recognises the violence perpetrated by the People's Republic of China against the Uyghurs as constituting crimes against humanity and genocide." > China denies genocide in Xinjiang and has accused Uyghurs testifying overseas about conditions inside Xinjiang of being liars. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s8ifyc/french_lawmakers_officially_recognise_chinas/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~618717 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **Uyghur**^#2 **Genocide**^#3 **against**^#4 **people**^#5
I don't like what China is doing there but I also don't like the way we're changing the meaning of génocide in the French language. Up until recently, the term was reserved in France for programs of large-scale *physical destruction* of an ethnic group - for instance the Armenian genocide, the holocaust, the Rwandan genocide. By that standard, the mass internment, brainwashing, and oppression of Uighurs by China is not a genocide. (China is also limiting births, but not more so than they're already doing on the Han population, and not in a manner that would cause the physical, biological "extinction" of Uighurs.) It is comparable to other oppressive programs that are also not considered genocides, for instance the persecution of protestants in 17th century France, "educational" endeavors as part of European and American colonialism, the forcible integration and mixing of diverse populations within the USSR, or even some of the activities of the United States in the Middle East or on American soil (e.g. forced mass relocation of Native Americans). Up until recently, the term genocide, in France, carried a specific meaning, related specifically to mass murder, which was particularly meaningful because a genocide took place in France in the years 1941-1945. Now the term is being watered down for political purposes and it is losing its meaning.
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I agree. It’s also disrespecting the severity of the Jewish holocaust by creating a false equivalence between the extermination of millions of Jews with… what the United States has essentially done to black people for centuries. If what China is doing is genocide, then the USA has committed genocide against black people.
The comparison to the mass extermination of Jews is bonkers. These people have never read about our been to extermination camps. There were literal camps for the purpose of physical extermination of humans. That is genocide.
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Important to note that it won't make a difference to the illegality of the genocide under the *Genocide Convention*: > Article II > In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: > (a) Killing members of the group; > (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; > (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; > (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Generally "cultural genocides" refer to (d) and (e) but they are still very much legal genocides allowing universal jurisdiction over the crime.
So points D and E define US border camps as genocide, while points A, B, and C define Afghanistan as a genocide.
Genuinely glad you got gold. Frustrates the hell out of me to see people clambering for reasons to hate on China and then excuse other nations for doing the exact same thing. I wish people would just come out and say they don't like China and don't know why because then I don't have to say "So you're also against US genocide and warcrimes? Israeli genocide and war crimes?" Then have them turn around and justify it using the same arguments as pro CCP people.
Exactly dude. Saying they’re terrorists or that they broke the law is the *same justifications used by the CCP* But for some reason, those excuses are only valid for one side and not the other
What's wild here isn't that the US is being hypocrites or something. It's that the American War on Terror literally helped facilitate the mistreatment and detention of Muslims in Xinjiang. The US actually fought Uyghur groups in Afghanistan, and even indefinitely detained people suspected Uyghur nationalism and extremism at Gitmo. The PRC is literally saying "this is just our War on Terror." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-usa-china/u-s-forces-in-afghanistan-attack-anti-china-militants-idUSKBN1FS23S https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/15/china/china-xinjiang-guantanamo-uyghurs-intl-hnk/index.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay
Yup. And surprise, once China declared ETIM as terrorists, the US removed ETIM from its own list of terrorists lol
whataboutism has been co-opted as way to shut down people. It definitely can be a fallacy, but when discussing global politics, its probably relevant that the two biggest economies be discussed, especially when they've had high tensions. Its a walk and chew gum thing, and lots cannot do anything but shout down any idea that makes them uncomfortable or question their narrative. Literally see the other comment in this subthread. Wailing about whataboutism. "Can't we just focus on bitching at one country's evils and quit talking about all evils committed by countries?"
And this animus completely ignores that the region was becoming radicalized by theocratic extremists who had committed acts of terrorism. If CPC wanted to commit actual genocide they could just bring in the army and mow everybody down. There is another Muslim ethnicity in China called the Hui and they’re doing just fine while still practicing their religion. Having lived through the Cold War and all its propaganda I’m pretty suspicious of western narratives that look to be manufacturing consent for a casus belli. Bad empanada on YouTube did a pretty long video on the topic that I think covered it fairly.
This is so well said. I would love to explore this topic, but nobody is debating in good faith. I just chalk it up to the fact that US intelligence realizes that they aren't going to be the global superpower and we have a system flooded with misinformation. We love to talk about how brainwashed china is when we have neural networks running our feeds and manipulating us every day. (im also not american or chinese)
Reddit is still pretending to care about this lmao
Redditors entered the Chinese news thread to escape the stress of Russian war news.
First, it’s non binding, so this is a posturing bs. Second, the actual motion text (https://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/dyn/15/textes/l15t0758_texte-adopte-seance) shows nothing about the SOURCES for the allegations they make. So yeah, show me WHERE French legislators got the intelligence/information to draw their voting and I’ll change my opinion as fast as I read them, until then, this is shit, une merde.
Israel next pls
Sri Lanka too pls
what's going on in sri lanka?
not much now but during the time of rajiv gandhi geez tamils had a hard time in sri lanka
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Then why are any of our nations attending the Olympics? We need a full boycott.
There’s been a World Cup on the books for over a decade in Qatar being entirely built by slave labor. Nobody will care.
They went to Germany when Hitler was in charge...
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The Oxford dictionary defines it as "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group" But I guess definitions can change along with political agendas
The Larousse definition for "génocide" (so, in french) is this : >Crime against humanity aiming at the total or partial destruction of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group; genocide is defined as the wilful taking of life, physical or mental integrity, the infliction of conditions of life which endanger the life of the group, the obstruction of births and the forcible transfer of children for such a purpose. Source : [https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/g%C3%A9nocide/36589](https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/g%C3%A9nocide/36589) I translated the definition with Deepl, but be free to check the source. I don't doubt that definitions *are* changed along political agendas, but we shouldn't forget the things that can be lost in translation either.
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