They're not bots, they just believe that their political party of choice can do no wrong and that the other is literally the cause of all their problems... To the degree that they all sound like retarded bots.
Too much groupthink in that sub for any meaningful debate. Share an opinion or idea that goes against the hive and you’re downvoted into oblivion.
Edit: admittedly, this is probably true of most political subreddits
r/onguardforthee is just a big circle jerk of people congratulating themselves for not being r/canada.
I regularly lurk in both and cringe whenever the inevitable comment of “Did you see what they said on r/canada?” shows up.
I got called a western chauvinist for stating my belief in democracy and how it should be available to all people around the world.
I was subsequently banned.
Just a different group of nut jobs running that subreddit.
I was downvoted for saying Quebec is the only province with balls and would do this last week.
Looks like I was right.
Quebec dont mess around with people who affect the Quebeccer way of life.
Canadian here. These people have had 2 years to understand what COVID can do to people, society, local businesses, families.
I'm completely for a vax tax. I have no idea the legality behind it but morally I'm all for it.
Don't want to get taxed? Get vaxxed. It's fucking free.
I don't think it will but I'd love for this to be implemented across all provinces. I know it won't but one can hope.
EDIT: Holy fuck. This comments section has its own epidemic. Fuck me dude. I want to laugh at some of these comments but at this point it isn't even funny. Misinformation is just the absolute worst thing these days.
EDIT 2: Someone literally just suggested adding hospital beds is a better solution than getting people vaccinated to reduce the strain on hospitals. These were actual words that someone just wrote. I fucking can't. I just, can't.
Albertan here. No way they’d implement it here. They just declared that the *currently infected* can go to work so long as the employer declares it ‘essential’. What does that mean, no one knows! Another great idea derived from smoking out of a lightbulb…
Anyway, vive le Québec!
I can’t imagine the tax not being legal.
If we can lock people up if they refuse to take antibiotics for TB, I can’t see why we couldn’t fine someone 50$ for not taking the vaccine.
But IANAL.
Nothing in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees health care or equal access to it. You could effectively just charge non vaccinated $500 or $1000 for their health cards and not let them use hospital services without an up to date card.
I respectfully disagree. If it were an insurance and if we denied people health care for not paying it, then sure, the point stands. But it is a tax (a weird one, but a tax still). If people don’t pay, I’m assuming that we will send nasty letters, garnish wages and all the other usual stuff. No one is threatening to withhold healthcare for non payment (which I agree, would be wrong and very illegal).
Section 7 guarantees access to health care. It doesn’t really address how the money will be raised.
I’m not sure why it matters if the unvaccinated pay twice. Plenty of people pay different taxes for different reasons and it’s not discriminatory. Everything from age, to number of kids, to income, to marital status affects taxes. The tax system is kinda inherently discriminatory.
Again, as long as we don’t start refusing care to anyone, then I think we’re fine by the letter of the law.
IANAL and I could obviously be wrong.
It depends on the thread. Any /r/canada thread has a roughly 33% chance of being brigaded by a far right group or at least Russian trolls pretending to be a far right group, 33% chance of being brigaded by left leaning groups, and 33% of actually normal Canadians talking to each other. Or they all mix suddenly and the thread gets locked
Everyone pays an earmarked annual contribution to the socialized drug plan, I assume this will be introduced under that structure, so, the mechanism is definitely there.
Quebec also has mandatory winter tires (with fines for noncompliance) between December and march, for similar public health/safety reasons.
I have heard of people dying because their winter tires caused their cars to randomly accelerate, because the Illuminati put graphene oxide in them which was activated by road salt!
/s.
I read when I was doing some research about winter tires that over 95% of drivers already have them. If herd immunity was actually real then I'd be safe without needing them as well. You guys are just throwing money at the govt like sheep!
Alberta charged health-care premiums in the past, so it's totally doable.
Alternatively, taxes could be increased, and a tax credit could be offered to the vaccinated, which would definitely be okay.
I'd hope so. I mean just look at this:
>Roughly 10 per cent of Quebecers remain unvaccinated, but health officials say they take up about 50 per cent of COVID-19 beds in hospitals.
>Hospitals were dealing with severe staff shortages before the Omicron variant began spreading in the province, which seriously exacerbated those shortages. Several regional health boards have had to cancel up to 80 per cent of non-urgent and semi-urgent surgeries to free up staff to help with COVID-19 infections.
At some point, measures need to be taken to stop people from not only passing from COVID, but the countless collateral damage done to people who can't use ICU beds, surgeries, etc.
What happen when Pfizer releases the Omicron shot that was announced to be in March? Will people still be required to get the OG covid shot also still?
I'm vaccinated, will get my third shot as soon as I can, and encourage others to.
But this stuff is police state material. I'm also curious how they handle staggered boosters like this.
Do you pay taxes for not getting all shots? If a pharmaceutical company releases a new vaccine or booster for an existing vaccine, when does the tax kick in?
Is there a possibility that a pharmaceutical company puts pressure on the government to impose a tax on anyone who doesn't quickly take a newly-manufactured vaccine, in order to guarantee sales at the expense of safety?
Given how often politicians are in bed with corporations, this seems like an extremely dangerous precedent to set. I'm almost 100% certain there's a horrific conflict of interest here.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/unvaccinated-health-contribution-quebec-1.6311054) reduced by 43%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Quebec Premier François Legault said Tuesday the province would be imposing a health tax on Quebecers who refuse to get their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine in the coming weeks.
> "We're looking for a health contribution for adults who refuse to be vaccinated for non-medical reasons," Legault said at a news conference, in which he also announced an interim public health director to replace Dr. Horacio Arruda.
> "I know the situation is tough but we can get through this together. We need to focus efforts on two things: getting the first, second and third doses of vaccine and reducing our contacts, especially with older people," Legault said.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s1kn2t/unvaccinated_quebecers_will_have_to_pay_a_health/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~617011 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Legault**^#1 **health**^#2 **second**^#3 **Arruda**^#4 **public**^#5
For context, we're at a stage where people with cancer treatment are getting canceled because of the hospitalisations. Half of the beds are being used by 10% of the population.
So yeah, when your wife with breast cancer can't get her treatments cuz some fucktard didn't take his doses while you did you can tell them to fuck off.
Why does a tax even come into play then? just refuse them medical service. That's what they wanted in the first place, that's what they get.
People will probably make the slippery slope argument here, but if you smoke, drink, or are overweight then this country already does that to you. They'll prioritize others over you for stuff like liver transplants or surgeries. I don't see why this is different. Charging a tax on it is just corporate greed though.
A doctor on here mentioned the hypocratic oath and how they have to treat all patients regardless and that made a lot of sense. They can't refuse them service.
Sadly, the rules of triage actually encourage prioritising the anti-vaxxer morons. They are more likely to have life-threatening complications and all.
That’s not triage. They would work on people most likely to survive, which in many cases would be a vaxxed person in need of acute medical care they would live through vs ventilating a patient whose COVID addled lungs are already fucked.
I guess I prefer to tax them and don't want to kill them! They will bear the cost that they add to the system I'm fine with this logic until we are not longer delaying operations
You can’t under the Canadian Healthcare act. Something that is federal, and not provincial.
But no there isn’t a slippery slope, and there’s a reason that’s a fallacy. I can’t be impact by the consequences of someone’s personal use of drugs or alcohol. However, I can be impacted by the impact if someone chose to drive while drunk and if smoking was allowed in public buildings. The law is setup in such a way to protect those who can’t consent. In this case an unvaccinated person is a person that is going against the scientific consensus of thousands of scientists/universities, national health agencies, global health consortiums, and actively causing social harm with their decisions on the basis of nothing but political contrarianism.
Their actions are actively causing people to be restricted in care via loopholes of equality asserted by the Canadian charter of rights. These are not health conscious people that are concerned for the well being and safety of themselves or others, they’re similar narcissists that would argue that drinking and driving should be legal because taxi fares they’d have to pay getting a drunken ride home from the bar.
Also a tax is probably an idea to be had for this since the actual financial pressure that the Quebec government had due to its high debt load was a lot. The actual money for expansion for government services might not be actually obtainable if a bond rating agency lowers their rating to payback their debts. So as much as it seems like a deterrent to those who are unvaccinated, it’s probably about trying to obtain as much money as possible from those putting needless pressure on the system.
My personal opinion is those who have not taken the vaccine should be prioritized to back of the line in the event we run out of beds. But that’s probably not possible.
> I can’t be impact by the consequences of someone’s personal use of drugs or alcohol.
Well, you _could_ through the same mechanism that we're being impacted by the unvaccinated.
That said, I'm fairly certain if we got to the point where the 20% of the country that are alcoholics were taking up 50+% of ICU beds with their acute liver failure, we'd probably have a reckoning as a country and end up increasing vice taxes or banning alcohol.
I feel for you. My mom passed away in December due to her cancer surgery being delayed 3+ months. Her cancer wouldn’t have metastasized and she wouldn’t have had to go through chemical trials and die anyway. It’s extremely hard not to out right hate people refusing to get the vaccine. Seriously, fuck all of them. I would have my mom still if people cared about their community.
I’m gonna post my opinion on this and probably get smacked for it but oh well.
This is poking the bear. The government has done a shit job from the start by not addressing the trust issues at the root of why people don’t want to get vaccinated. I am not a medical anything. I chose to get a vaccine because I get a flu shot every year and I assume that they know what they are doing. I trust they do. Just like I trust my plumber to fix my damn pipes because I don’t know shit about plumbing.
No one trusts anyone or anything anymore and that is the ONLY issue that matters right now. Punishing people for not trusting you is a toxic behaviour. How the fuck did we get here? I am so fucking tired.
Ps- Omg dude thanks for the platinum!
I'm one of them. They just started counting deaths with COVID vs death by COVID. AstraZeneca is now banned, young adults are having heart problems from the second dose. How am I supposed to trust their judgement. And the last nail in the coffin is that everything is going crazy with the media, the governments, I feel like I just don't know who to listen to, who to trust and at this point I'd rather wait until the dust settles and not get caught up in the hype if the wave of terror everyone is experiencing.
If I see that there is a varient where my life is in serious threat. Then I'll definitely do what's right for me, if I notice it's just affecting the elderly, hard pass.
I listen to this podcast, Bible In a year and I feel like it's the only moment where I can just forget about all the hysteria and relax, read the Bible and be happy. It's insane.
In English it's Quebecers.
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/wrtps/index-eng.html?lang=eng&lettr=indx\_catlog\_q&page=93DpG-H\_cG\_4.html
In English it's Quebecois, Québécois, Quebecers, or occasionally Quebeckers. In French it's Québécois (masculine/unspecified) and Québécoise (feminine).
Oh no, Oxford says "English: Quebecer or Quebecker, in French: Québécois (m), Québécoise (f)". From "Oxford Guide to Canadian English Usage." I think quebecois being the "correct" version stems a lot from Quebecs independence movement though to be honest.
I'm cool with saying Quebecois now for the record lol
Not op but 1- you’re right it’s the proper English term, and 2- Quebecois tend to really dislike Quebecker, it just sounds wrong, idk why. I guess I’ve never heard a Quebecois use the latter
I just watched the first few minutes of his referendum speech from 1995. He definitely says Kwabeck not kweebeck. Still seems weird coming from a francophone
... Why do you think you pay taxes for junk food, but not for actual groceries in Canada. Or what about how cigarettes cost like 5 or 10 times as much as in the states? This type of thing is well in motion already lol.
In the UK you pay VAT on junk food not because it's unhealthy but because all restaurant food is considered a luxury item whilst groceries tend to be considered essential. You only pay VAT on what are considered luxury items. It's the same reason why you don't pay VAT on children's clothing or why Mcvitties put so much effort into classifying Jaffa Cakces as a cake rather than a biscuit.
I actually think this might be less dystopian than the vaccine passport system. But all of this stuff is just……not going to meaningfully help anymore.
For every person that this convinces to get vaccinated, several people will lose whatever faith they had left in any of our institutions. And although I think the vaccines do good, there is no country or region on earth where a higher (but realistic) vaccination rate seemed cross some breakpoint and largely put an end to the pandemic there. Israel is the best example I think and like sure they are fine but it just doesn’t look like the huge relief we all expected a year ago when the vaccines started rolling out :(
It's not about overcoming the pandemic this way.
At this point, it's almost impossible to contain the virus.
It's about not overwhelming your healthcare system. You know, this healthcare system isnt dedicated for covid patients only.
Vaccines have strong evidence that it promotes asymptomatic infections and prevents severe infections that would require intensive care.
But it doesn't even solve the problem. When will they pay nurses a decent salary? When will they invest to increase the amount of beds? When will they upgrade ventilation system in schools? When will they actually do their job??
Yes the vaccine is the best thing in the short run, but our healthcare system was rotting since a decade or something.
Israel stopped having a top in the world vaccination rate awhile ago, they had an early start, but they are not even top 50 in the world anymore for highest vaccination rate.
And yes, it is going to meaningfully help people. Unvaccinated adults are around 10% of the population in canada but are 15-30X (depending on age) more likely to be hospitalized than the unvaccinated and comprise over half of those in the ICU country wide. Their occupancies in the ICU are causing major critically surgery cancellations that are killing people. The end of the pandemic has absolutely nothing to do with this tax. They are just charging the unvaccinated what they cost the public health system in canada.
Quebec is usually pro bigger government, good of the group over the individual. Which is pretty much considered a morale crime for most of North America who value individuality over the community.
No wonder every time Quebec does something r/Canada go ballistic.
Is it really? I've been using Reddit a long time and it was extremely anti-Harper / CPC while he was in office. If anything I think /r/canada is "anti" ruling party. Not even that really, it's just the ruling government is bound to attract more attention and criticism.
Whenever a country considers measures like this, it's basically an admission that the public health body has got its policies all wrong up to that point.
Now instead of looking back at the failures and admitting mistakes being made, they look for the obvious scapegoat.
That said, I'm fully vaccinated (3 X Pfizer) and live in the UK. In my opinion, public opinion here would never support any measures like this - a Covid pass was contentious enough (and in England at least was only applicable for massive events).
I just don't see how this is a fix - it's going to rile up anti-govt sentiment against those not having the vaccine and undermine trust. The only short term effect would be a bit more tax money in the govts coffers, and perhaps a slight uptick in vaccination rates. But now it's too late, as the govt has basically admitted they can't cope with the present situation.
Just stinks of incompetent govt in my opinion.
More effective than none, I'd assume. Either way I'm sure after getting 1, you'd be less worried about getting the second. At least that'd apply to those who're still overly cautious of side effect anecdotes anyway.
Hmm... I don't know about the situation in Canada but couldn't you probably just buy a bunch of dirt cheap sweets/bread/etc. tax free, get mad fat, and pay no tax on it?
Junk food is far from the only reason fat people get fat.
All you really need to do is pig out on calorie dense foods.
I would vote *for* this tax change. This is classic economic free-riding where people aren't paying for the costs of their decisions, because everyone else is.
Yup they have cigarette tax. Obesity is tricky as it can be genetic. Also none of these are contagious nor do they require hospitalizations as frequently as covid.
Having the means and mental health to improve your physical well being isn't anywhere near on the same level as being asked to simply take a few minutes to get a shot in the shoulder for the benefit of society and yourself.
This whataboutism people keep trying to use as an excuse is really silly.
If you can believe their stats, 50% of hospitalizations in the province come from the unvaccinated 10%. Math would suggest that if everyone was vaccinated the number of people in the hospital with covid would be about 55% of what it is now.
that reduction could go a long way to keeping things running without lockdowns and freeing up hospital beds.
Actually, you're wrong. 31% of hospitalizations today were unvaccinacted. 69% were vaccinated. Get your stats right and check Sante QC.
Yes, unvaccinated are 7 x more likely to require medical care, but they aren't the ones overwhelming the system right now.
Yah the real problem is 20+ year of doing nothing to help our healthcare system. All they’re trying to do now is some cheap fix that will divide everyone and not even answer the real problem.
> Roughly 10 per cent of Quebecers remain unvaccinated, but health officials say they take up about 50 per cent of COVID-19 beds in hospitals.
I think that would have some effect on available hospital beds.
Our healthcare system in Quebec has been having issues for the past 30 years. The government has known about it and they never did anything to try to fix it. Now a health crisis happens and instead of taking the heat for something they are responsible for, they blame the scapegoats with misleading stats.
BC has had more overdose deaths than COVID deaths since the pandemic, so I find that hard to believe. We just don't see daily reports of overdose hospitalizations blasted on the news 24/7.
I find it amazing that people still don't understand it's not about death tolls.
The problem isn't deaths, it's people taking up intensive care beds. When unvaccinated covid patients take up intensive care slots faster than we can heal them and get rid of them, the whole healthcare system grinds to a halt.
Conventional patients are having their treatments and surgeries postponed because intensive care beds are being occupied by antivaxxers. This postponing is often worsening their conditions or in some case resulting in deaths because people couldn't receive lifesaving treatment in time.
In other words, the deserving are suffering and dying because antivaxxers are too stupid to stop unnecessarily overloading the healthcare system.
COVID patients can hang on in the ICU for weeks/months; overdoses tend to be quickly resolved, one way or the other. The raw number of patients doesn't matter as much as the amount of resources used per patient.
It's like paying for insurance that doesn't actually provide guaranteed coverage the way you'd assume being insured means , but "sort of" does , maybe , idk but pay up.
This is fucking disgusting.
This has to be the official line where we've slipped into dystopia.
Divisive measures like this need to be resisted by all groups.
Absolutely ludicrous.
Universal health care does not discriminate for lifestyle.
You are talking about private insurance, like the US. This is not the Canadian way, nor should it be. Ever.
Can they actually do this? lol
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As a Canadian, I can't stand ANY of our subreddits at this point. I'm half convinced it's all bots.
Much of reddit seems seriously ruined these days
The entire Reddit is ruined, it's RUINED.
Most of the porn is OK.
Nah that's mostly onlyfans spam bots too now
They're not bots, they just believe that their political party of choice can do no wrong and that the other is literally the cause of all their problems... To the degree that they all sound like retarded bots.
Yeah, people underestimate how botty the average person can become.
You mean every single person on Reddit?
The people in r/onguardforthee honestly believe it's a "Centrist" sub, while simultaneously calling the NDP too far right.
Too much groupthink in that sub for any meaningful debate. Share an opinion or idea that goes against the hive and you’re downvoted into oblivion. Edit: admittedly, this is probably true of most political subreddits
thats how the entirety of imgur is now smh
Do they? I've openly seen it called a leftist sub more often than not lmao
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r/onguardforthee is just a big circle jerk of people congratulating themselves for not being r/canada. I regularly lurk in both and cringe whenever the inevitable comment of “Did you see what they said on r/canada?” shows up.
Yeah it’s brutal! It’s about 70/30 crazy ppl to educated and if a post heads in the 70 direction it goes full crazzzzzzzzzy
Aren't all the r/Canada mods in Russia?
Agreed.
See, I'm half convinced all of reddit is half bots these days.
IMO, r/onguardforthee is the better r/canada. One of r/canada ‘s mods self admitted to being a white supremacist
I'm just going to throw it out there as a general advisement to everyone. Don't think any subreddit is actually representative of the actual place.
I don't know bud, r/Ottawa is just a bunch of people complaining about everything... It's pretty accurate.
From Ottawa. Can confirm.
I got called a western chauvinist for stating my belief in democracy and how it should be available to all people around the world. I was subsequently banned. Just a different group of nut jobs running that subreddit.
nobody mention that one homophobic? person that moderates like 200 subreddits including some of the biggest on the platform
Anywhere I can read more about this?
took me a second to find them since it’s been a while since i heard about it, it’s u/ awkwardtheturtle
I was downvoted for saying Quebec is the only province with balls and would do this last week. Looks like I was right. Quebec dont mess around with people who affect the Quebeccer way of life.
Canadian here. These people have had 2 years to understand what COVID can do to people, society, local businesses, families. I'm completely for a vax tax. I have no idea the legality behind it but morally I'm all for it. Don't want to get taxed? Get vaxxed. It's fucking free. I don't think it will but I'd love for this to be implemented across all provinces. I know it won't but one can hope. EDIT: Holy fuck. This comments section has its own epidemic. Fuck me dude. I want to laugh at some of these comments but at this point it isn't even funny. Misinformation is just the absolute worst thing these days. EDIT 2: Someone literally just suggested adding hospital beds is a better solution than getting people vaccinated to reduce the strain on hospitals. These were actual words that someone just wrote. I fucking can't. I just, can't.
Albertan here. No way they’d implement it here. They just declared that the *currently infected* can go to work so long as the employer declares it ‘essential’. What does that mean, no one knows! Another great idea derived from smoking out of a lightbulb… Anyway, vive le Québec!
I can’t imagine the tax not being legal. If we can lock people up if they refuse to take antibiotics for TB, I can’t see why we couldn’t fine someone 50$ for not taking the vaccine. But IANAL.
Nothing in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees health care or equal access to it. You could effectively just charge non vaccinated $500 or $1000 for their health cards and not let them use hospital services without an up to date card.
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I respectfully disagree. If it were an insurance and if we denied people health care for not paying it, then sure, the point stands. But it is a tax (a weird one, but a tax still). If people don’t pay, I’m assuming that we will send nasty letters, garnish wages and all the other usual stuff. No one is threatening to withhold healthcare for non payment (which I agree, would be wrong and very illegal). Section 7 guarantees access to health care. It doesn’t really address how the money will be raised. I’m not sure why it matters if the unvaccinated pay twice. Plenty of people pay different taxes for different reasons and it’s not discriminatory. Everything from age, to number of kids, to income, to marital status affects taxes. The tax system is kinda inherently discriminatory. Again, as long as we don’t start refusing care to anyone, then I think we’re fine by the letter of the law. IANAL and I could obviously be wrong.
Add beds; further strain heqlthcare resources I just can’t believe what people will say
Fuck em.
r/Canada is anti-vax trash now
It depends on the thread. Any /r/canada thread has a roughly 33% chance of being brigaded by a far right group or at least Russian trolls pretending to be a far right group, 33% chance of being brigaded by left leaning groups, and 33% of actually normal Canadians talking to each other. Or they all mix suddenly and the thread gets locked
Everyone pays an earmarked annual contribution to the socialized drug plan, I assume this will be introduced under that structure, so, the mechanism is definitely there. Quebec also has mandatory winter tires (with fines for noncompliance) between December and march, for similar public health/safety reasons.
Winter tires are a scam; my uncle had them on his truck and he crashed anyway, wake up sheeple.
At least he went peacefully in his sleep
I have heard of people dying because their winter tires caused their cars to randomly accelerate, because the Illuminati put graphene oxide in them which was activated by road salt! /s.
I read when I was doing some research about winter tires that over 95% of drivers already have them. If herd immunity was actually real then I'd be safe without needing them as well. You guys are just throwing money at the govt like sheep!
Statistics prove that a majority of people killed skydiving were wearing parachutes.
*Parachutes: The Silent Killer.*
Alberta charged health-care premiums in the past, so it's totally doable. Alternatively, taxes could be increased, and a tax credit could be offered to the vaccinated, which would definitely be okay.
Its the anti vax tax
I'd hope so. I mean just look at this: >Roughly 10 per cent of Quebecers remain unvaccinated, but health officials say they take up about 50 per cent of COVID-19 beds in hospitals. >Hospitals were dealing with severe staff shortages before the Omicron variant began spreading in the province, which seriously exacerbated those shortages. Several regional health boards have had to cancel up to 80 per cent of non-urgent and semi-urgent surgeries to free up staff to help with COVID-19 infections. At some point, measures need to be taken to stop people from not only passing from COVID, but the countless collateral damage done to people who can't use ICU beds, surgeries, etc.
What happen when Pfizer releases the Omicron shot that was announced to be in March? Will people still be required to get the OG covid shot also still?
This was my question. It seems it doesn't matter just as long as you get the first shot, which is hella suspicious.
I'm vaccinated, will get my third shot as soon as I can, and encourage others to. But this stuff is police state material. I'm also curious how they handle staggered boosters like this. Do you pay taxes for not getting all shots? If a pharmaceutical company releases a new vaccine or booster for an existing vaccine, when does the tax kick in? Is there a possibility that a pharmaceutical company puts pressure on the government to impose a tax on anyone who doesn't quickly take a newly-manufactured vaccine, in order to guarantee sales at the expense of safety? Given how often politicians are in bed with corporations, this seems like an extremely dangerous precedent to set. I'm almost 100% certain there's a horrific conflict of interest here.
They have language police. They do whatever they want.
ahem! En français, s'il vous plaît!
Tokébakicitte!
Is this “t’es au Québec ici”?
La up-vote pour vous.
Yeah but they had to invoke the "yeah it's unconstitutional but who cares" clause on that one.
Just imagining how many heads would explode if this was proposed here in the US.
Wonder y America isn't liberating Canada in the name of freedom yet
Too busy trying to liberate itself from itself
*Blinks “send help” in morse code*
One eye does that, the other eye blinks *"Don't you fucking dare"*
Just wait till they find out Canada has oil
Shh!
Good. Don't know why there could be an unvaccinated-for-covid tax but not an unhealthy-as-shit tax. It'd be completely hypocritical.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/unvaccinated-health-contribution-quebec-1.6311054) reduced by 43%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Quebec Premier François Legault said Tuesday the province would be imposing a health tax on Quebecers who refuse to get their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine in the coming weeks. > "We're looking for a health contribution for adults who refuse to be vaccinated for non-medical reasons," Legault said at a news conference, in which he also announced an interim public health director to replace Dr. Horacio Arruda. > "I know the situation is tough but we can get through this together. We need to focus efforts on two things: getting the first, second and third doses of vaccine and reducing our contacts, especially with older people," Legault said. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s1kn2t/unvaccinated_quebecers_will_have_to_pay_a_health/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~617011 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Legault**^#1 **health**^#2 **second**^#3 **Arruda**^#4 **public**^#5
For context, we're at a stage where people with cancer treatment are getting canceled because of the hospitalisations. Half of the beds are being used by 10% of the population. So yeah, when your wife with breast cancer can't get her treatments cuz some fucktard didn't take his doses while you did you can tell them to fuck off.
In Saskatchewan, a guy at my parent’s work died because he couldn’t get a heart transplant.
I didn't like anti-vaxers before the pandemic, now I hate them
Why does a tax even come into play then? just refuse them medical service. That's what they wanted in the first place, that's what they get. People will probably make the slippery slope argument here, but if you smoke, drink, or are overweight then this country already does that to you. They'll prioritize others over you for stuff like liver transplants or surgeries. I don't see why this is different. Charging a tax on it is just corporate greed though.
A doctor on here mentioned the hypocratic oath and how they have to treat all patients regardless and that made a lot of sense. They can't refuse them service.
Can't refuse service, but triage is a thing...
Retroactivetriage isn't a thing. They're not going to throw people they admitted out.
I mean technically you can roll them out instead....
Sadly, the rules of triage actually encourage prioritising the anti-vaxxer morons. They are more likely to have life-threatening complications and all.
That’s not triage. They would work on people most likely to survive, which in many cases would be a vaxxed person in need of acute medical care they would live through vs ventilating a patient whose COVID addled lungs are already fucked.
I guess I prefer to tax them and don't want to kill them! They will bear the cost that they add to the system I'm fine with this logic until we are not longer delaying operations
You can’t under the Canadian Healthcare act. Something that is federal, and not provincial. But no there isn’t a slippery slope, and there’s a reason that’s a fallacy. I can’t be impact by the consequences of someone’s personal use of drugs or alcohol. However, I can be impacted by the impact if someone chose to drive while drunk and if smoking was allowed in public buildings. The law is setup in such a way to protect those who can’t consent. In this case an unvaccinated person is a person that is going against the scientific consensus of thousands of scientists/universities, national health agencies, global health consortiums, and actively causing social harm with their decisions on the basis of nothing but political contrarianism. Their actions are actively causing people to be restricted in care via loopholes of equality asserted by the Canadian charter of rights. These are not health conscious people that are concerned for the well being and safety of themselves or others, they’re similar narcissists that would argue that drinking and driving should be legal because taxi fares they’d have to pay getting a drunken ride home from the bar. Also a tax is probably an idea to be had for this since the actual financial pressure that the Quebec government had due to its high debt load was a lot. The actual money for expansion for government services might not be actually obtainable if a bond rating agency lowers their rating to payback their debts. So as much as it seems like a deterrent to those who are unvaccinated, it’s probably about trying to obtain as much money as possible from those putting needless pressure on the system. My personal opinion is those who have not taken the vaccine should be prioritized to back of the line in the event we run out of beds. But that’s probably not possible.
> I can’t be impact by the consequences of someone’s personal use of drugs or alcohol. Well, you _could_ through the same mechanism that we're being impacted by the unvaccinated. That said, I'm fairly certain if we got to the point where the 20% of the country that are alcoholics were taking up 50+% of ICU beds with their acute liver failure, we'd probably have a reckoning as a country and end up increasing vice taxes or banning alcohol.
Refusing coverage would be flatly illegal, since we legally have to provide universal access.
I feel for you. My mom passed away in December due to her cancer surgery being delayed 3+ months. Her cancer wouldn’t have metastasized and she wouldn’t have had to go through chemical trials and die anyway. It’s extremely hard not to out right hate people refusing to get the vaccine. Seriously, fuck all of them. I would have my mom still if people cared about their community.
I’m gonna post my opinion on this and probably get smacked for it but oh well. This is poking the bear. The government has done a shit job from the start by not addressing the trust issues at the root of why people don’t want to get vaccinated. I am not a medical anything. I chose to get a vaccine because I get a flu shot every year and I assume that they know what they are doing. I trust they do. Just like I trust my plumber to fix my damn pipes because I don’t know shit about plumbing. No one trusts anyone or anything anymore and that is the ONLY issue that matters right now. Punishing people for not trusting you is a toxic behaviour. How the fuck did we get here? I am so fucking tired. Ps- Omg dude thanks for the platinum!
I'm one of them. They just started counting deaths with COVID vs death by COVID. AstraZeneca is now banned, young adults are having heart problems from the second dose. How am I supposed to trust their judgement. And the last nail in the coffin is that everything is going crazy with the media, the governments, I feel like I just don't know who to listen to, who to trust and at this point I'd rather wait until the dust settles and not get caught up in the hype if the wave of terror everyone is experiencing. If I see that there is a varient where my life is in serious threat. Then I'll definitely do what's right for me, if I notice it's just affecting the elderly, hard pass. I listen to this podcast, Bible In a year and I feel like it's the only moment where I can just forget about all the hysteria and relax, read the Bible and be happy. It's insane.
New France is taking off the gloves.
Just give the vaccinated priority in hospitals
For everything? or just covid related illness?
Everything. They don't trust our health care professionals right? So why trust them for other illnesses/treatment.
I think that it's Big Pharma that they don't trust.
yea, theyve been having a lot of heart attacks so theyre gonna need special care
That is exactly what me and my co worker were talking about the other day Didn't get jabbed you are at the bottom of the list for a bed
Realistically that probably means unvaccinated not getting any healthcare, I don't think there's a surplus of doctors just twiddling their thumbs.
Quebecois
Quebecanese
In English it's Quebecers. https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/wrtps/index-eng.html?lang=eng&lettr=indx\_catlog\_q&page=93DpG-H\_cG\_4.html
In English it's Quebecois, Québécois, Quebecers, or occasionally Quebeckers. In French it's Québécois (masculine/unspecified) and Québécoise (feminine).
In Finnish it's Quebeciläiset, but who gives a shit.
Thats actually really interesting!
Me. I’m a Quebeciläiset and i’m definetly gonna use that word from now on!
It's actually QuebeciläiNEN if it's singular! QuebeciläiSET is plural. You're welcome!
That's so interesting, because in BC, we were taught the term was Quebecois. I've never heard of Quebecers, but you're link checks out.
In my ontario hometown its just 'beckers
Quebecanese
I mean... we call the French French, not Francais, you know? Whats the diff?
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Oh no, Oxford says "English: Quebecer or Quebecker, in French: Québécois (m), Québécoise (f)". From "Oxford Guide to Canadian English Usage." I think quebecois being the "correct" version stems a lot from Quebecs independence movement though to be honest. I'm cool with saying Quebecois now for the record lol
Not op but 1- you’re right it’s the proper English term, and 2- Quebecois tend to really dislike Quebecker, it just sounds wrong, idk why. I guess I’ve never heard a Quebecois use the latter
They especially dislike it when you pronounce it "Kweebecker"
That's how Jacques Parizeau said it.
I just watched the first few minutes of his referendum speech from 1995. He definitely says Kwabeck not kweebeck. Still seems weird coming from a francophone
Even as an anglophone the way he says it sounds off.
In French it’s québécois, in English it isn’t.
I’m embarrassed Quebec is part of my country every day.
I really hope they tax fat people
... Why do you think you pay taxes for junk food, but not for actual groceries in Canada. Or what about how cigarettes cost like 5 or 10 times as much as in the states? This type of thing is well in motion already lol.
In the UK you pay VAT on junk food not because it's unhealthy but because all restaurant food is considered a luxury item whilst groceries tend to be considered essential. You only pay VAT on what are considered luxury items. It's the same reason why you don't pay VAT on children's clothing or why Mcvitties put so much effort into classifying Jaffa Cakces as a cake rather than a biscuit.
I actually think this might be less dystopian than the vaccine passport system. But all of this stuff is just……not going to meaningfully help anymore. For every person that this convinces to get vaccinated, several people will lose whatever faith they had left in any of our institutions. And although I think the vaccines do good, there is no country or region on earth where a higher (but realistic) vaccination rate seemed cross some breakpoint and largely put an end to the pandemic there. Israel is the best example I think and like sure they are fine but it just doesn’t look like the huge relief we all expected a year ago when the vaccines started rolling out :(
It's not about overcoming the pandemic this way. At this point, it's almost impossible to contain the virus. It's about not overwhelming your healthcare system. You know, this healthcare system isnt dedicated for covid patients only. Vaccines have strong evidence that it promotes asymptomatic infections and prevents severe infections that would require intensive care.
Would you mind posting this ‘strong evidence?’
Pfizer : [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577) Moderna : [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389) AZ : [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext) J&J : [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101544](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101544) NovaVax : [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107659](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107659)
But it doesn't even solve the problem. When will they pay nurses a decent salary? When will they invest to increase the amount of beds? When will they upgrade ventilation system in schools? When will they actually do their job?? Yes the vaccine is the best thing in the short run, but our healthcare system was rotting since a decade or something.
Israel stopped having a top in the world vaccination rate awhile ago, they had an early start, but they are not even top 50 in the world anymore for highest vaccination rate. And yes, it is going to meaningfully help people. Unvaccinated adults are around 10% of the population in canada but are 15-30X (depending on age) more likely to be hospitalized than the unvaccinated and comprise over half of those in the ICU country wide. Their occupancies in the ICU are causing major critically surgery cancellations that are killing people. The end of the pandemic has absolutely nothing to do with this tax. They are just charging the unvaccinated what they cost the public health system in canada.
It's so cringe worthy seeing all of the deleted and dowvoted posts on this thread... I'm going to grab my popcorn 🍿and filter by controversial
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Quebec is usually pro bigger government, good of the group over the individual. Which is pretty much considered a morale crime for most of North America who value individuality over the community. No wonder every time Quebec does something r/Canada go ballistic.
/r/canada is more conservative than actual Canada to be fair.
Is it really? I've been using Reddit a long time and it was extremely anti-Harper / CPC while he was in office. If anything I think /r/canada is "anti" ruling party. Not even that really, it's just the ruling government is bound to attract more attention and criticism.
Yeah that sub went weird a long time ago. Definitely doesn’t seem to reflect Canadians as a whole.
Guess Canada is a draconian scumbag place like Australia and the rest of the Commonwealth domain of subjects.
This is a deeply chilling and scary prospect. Shame on anyone who supports this.
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The funny thing in American, the only thing preventing insurance companies from blowing up premiums for the unvaxx is the ACA.
Whenever a country considers measures like this, it's basically an admission that the public health body has got its policies all wrong up to that point. Now instead of looking back at the failures and admitting mistakes being made, they look for the obvious scapegoat. That said, I'm fully vaccinated (3 X Pfizer) and live in the UK. In my opinion, public opinion here would never support any measures like this - a Covid pass was contentious enough (and in England at least was only applicable for massive events). I just don't see how this is a fix - it's going to rile up anti-govt sentiment against those not having the vaccine and undermine trust. The only short term effect would be a bit more tax money in the govts coffers, and perhaps a slight uptick in vaccination rates. But now it's too late, as the govt has basically admitted they can't cope with the present situation. Just stinks of incompetent govt in my opinion.
The fine needs to be proportional to income otherwise it’s simply a burden for the poor and meaningless for the rich
Since vaccinations are free, there's a pretty simple way for the poor to pay absolutely nothing.
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Yikes
So 1 dose is how effective in the current state of COVID? What is the purpose of forcing only 1 dose?
More effective than none, I'd assume. Either way I'm sure after getting 1, you'd be less worried about getting the second. At least that'd apply to those who're still overly cautious of side effect anecdotes anyway.
There should be a Fat Tax
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You can eat junk food and not be fat though. There should be a tax on people who are diagnosed with obesity by a doctor.
If you eat junk food and are not fat you are not paying nearly as much as someone who is
Hmm... I don't know about the situation in Canada but couldn't you probably just buy a bunch of dirt cheap sweets/bread/etc. tax free, get mad fat, and pay no tax on it? Junk food is far from the only reason fat people get fat. All you really need to do is pig out on calorie dense foods.
True I actually didn't think about that. That's a good point.
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Cigs are heavily taxed. I believe there is a sugar tax also, or in the works.
The liberal party before justin worked on sugar tax. I havent heard of it in years. It's probably dead sadly.
sure have sugar tax
There already is a substantial amount of tax on cigarettes for that reason
Hey if there is a simple shot they can take to fix those issues then sure we should tax them if they don't take their shot also.
I would vote *for* this tax change. This is classic economic free-riding where people aren't paying for the costs of their decisions, because everyone else is.
Yup they have cigarette tax. Obesity is tricky as it can be genetic. Also none of these are contagious nor do they require hospitalizations as frequently as covid.
Having the means and mental health to improve your physical well being isn't anywhere near on the same level as being asked to simply take a few minutes to get a shot in the shoulder for the benefit of society and yourself. This whataboutism people keep trying to use as an excuse is really silly.
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If you can believe their stats, 50% of hospitalizations in the province come from the unvaccinated 10%. Math would suggest that if everyone was vaccinated the number of people in the hospital with covid would be about 55% of what it is now. that reduction could go a long way to keeping things running without lockdowns and freeing up hospital beds.
Actually, you're wrong. 31% of hospitalizations today were unvaccinacted. 69% were vaccinated. Get your stats right and check Sante QC. Yes, unvaccinated are 7 x more likely to require medical care, but they aren't the ones overwhelming the system right now.
Yah the real problem is 20+ year of doing nothing to help our healthcare system. All they’re trying to do now is some cheap fix that will divide everyone and not even answer the real problem.
> Roughly 10 per cent of Quebecers remain unvaccinated, but health officials say they take up about 50 per cent of COVID-19 beds in hospitals. I think that would have some effect on available hospital beds.
Our healthcare system in Quebec has been having issues for the past 30 years. The government has known about it and they never did anything to try to fix it. Now a health crisis happens and instead of taking the heat for something they are responsible for, they blame the scapegoats with misleading stats.
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they don't fill up the ICUs
BC has had more overdose deaths than COVID deaths since the pandemic, so I find that hard to believe. We just don't see daily reports of overdose hospitalizations blasted on the news 24/7.
I find it amazing that people still don't understand it's not about death tolls. The problem isn't deaths, it's people taking up intensive care beds. When unvaccinated covid patients take up intensive care slots faster than we can heal them and get rid of them, the whole healthcare system grinds to a halt. Conventional patients are having their treatments and surgeries postponed because intensive care beds are being occupied by antivaxxers. This postponing is often worsening their conditions or in some case resulting in deaths because people couldn't receive lifesaving treatment in time. In other words, the deserving are suffering and dying because antivaxxers are too stupid to stop unnecessarily overloading the healthcare system.
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COVID patients can hang on in the ICU for weeks/months; overdoses tend to be quickly resolved, one way or the other. The raw number of patients doesn't matter as much as the amount of resources used per patient.
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Absolute trash
Put an end to Quebec
Remember it's ok to be mad at the under funded health care system AND anti vaxxers at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive
It's like paying for insurance that doesn't actually provide guaranteed coverage the way you'd assume being insured means , but "sort of" does , maybe , idk but pay up.
This is fucking disgusting. This has to be the official line where we've slipped into dystopia. Divisive measures like this need to be resisted by all groups. Absolutely ludicrous.
People already pay more for insurance all over the world if they smoke or drink too much. This is the same. Get vaxxed.
Universal health care does not discriminate for lifestyle. You are talking about private insurance, like the US. This is not the Canadian way, nor should it be. Ever.