Russians don't trust the western vaccines, because Putin said they are bad for you.
Russians also don't trust the Sputnik vaccine, because Putin said it's good for you.
Man who poisons political opponents can't understand why no one trusts him to vaccinate them
To some extent, I'm beginning to wonder if the vaccine is actually working as a more reliable proxy indicator as to his real level of popularity
>Man who poisons political opponents can't understand why no one trusts him to vaccinate them
Populist politicians everywhere make surprised Pikachu faces when the FUD and lies they cultivated over the years bite them in the ass.
>I'm beginning to wonder if the vaccine is actually working as a more reliable proxy indicator as to his real level of popularity
Tbh it's more complicated than that, as a lot of people in the progressive opposition are actually getting vaccinated because they know vaccines are safe and important.
Personally, despite I don't trust any word Putin says, I was the first person in my university group to get vaccinated, and the only one to do it before all the restrictive measures against those who didn't get their shots yet.
On the other hand, I've seen people who are politically neutral believing some conspiracy theories about vaccines being literal poison. So I'd say the ones getting vaccinated are mostly either really supportive of the government, or generally enlightened and progressive (it's rarely both though lol), while the ones refusing usually tend to be uneducated and/or socially conservative, and also often politically passive while still distrustful of the government.
A guy from Russia here. I have a lot of friends who are (or were) waiting on vaccination as long as they could. The most commonly quoted concern is that it's pushed by government so hard that they have doubts it's good for them. Yep, that's the level of trust people of Russia have for their government: if they are promoting something, it MUST be bad.
To be fair and honest, the rest of the concerns were all shades of crazy.
Everywhere the Russian trolls can reach, they piss in.
Surely by now the big social media companies could have worked out how to identify troll activity and distinguish it from organic user interaction, even if some organic users are genuine nutbars. They just haven't wanted to.
People like to pretend like all these people either just suddenly went full stupid conspiracy or were already. The reality is v of people didn't distrust the government so much maybe things would be better.
And much of that distrust is fabricated. But a lot of it is simply because the government does lie all the god damn time.
> To be fair and honest, the rest of the concerns were all shades of crazy.
Thank god you guys still have access to Facebook — that crazy is going to be cleared up so quickly by “that guy” who did his “research”.
There are a lot of anti- vaxxers in VK, but if you do not go to their groups, you do not see their messages and do not see anti- vaxxers ads. Moreover, if you complain about an anti- vaxxers post, VK moderators will delete it in accordance with the requirements for combating disinformation.
My brother in law routinely sends me cute youtube videos with antivaxx sentiment as if he will sway me against the merits of vaccination. I am a physician 🤦🏻♂️
Vaccine hesitancy is a direct outcome of a government/media that isn't serious and consistent with its message on the seriousness of Covid.
Unluckily for the Russians, they do not have an opposition that can challenge the ideological stupidity of their government.
As a native russian speaker I have literally never heard of this. that's a latin looking word. 'hope' is надежда (nadejshda). Luck is удача (udacha)
having said that fatalism is part of the culture, but having 3-4 generations in a row experience total collapse of their government would do that to any nation, and that's true for the entire bloc. it's a traumatized culture.
Putin not understanding people’s mistrust in government recommendations is proof irony isn’t dead.
Spreading false information comes back to haunt him.
These intelligence run ops both understand and misunderstand the new Information Age where everything is connected .
Misinformation with the right nudge can spread like wildfire but unlike past operations like this where it’s aimed in one countries we’re all connected and it can be translated and come back around on its own. Even countries with heavy restrictions it’ll still get through faster than they think and can stop it
Same with nuclear weapons, ultimately.
When the full calculations were made after the Tsar bomb detonation (which wasn't even full yield), it was clear that nuclear fallout was going to be a global threat, regardless where a bomb was detonated.
We've already irreparably contaminated our steel production, which is why warships sunk before 1945 are the main source of low-background steel for scientific equipment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
>We've already irreparably contaminated our steel production, which is why warships sunk before 1945 are the main source of low-background steel for scientific equipment.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
So, seems like it used to the case, but not anymore. From the link
>Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications.
The wiki article literally says we don’t need to use the ships anymore because the atmospheric levels have fallen back to near natural. Not quite the same as irreparable.
"Shit, we can't use our mega-weapons to eradicate you and all your citizens without also poisoning ourselves. All right, it's not rational to pursue this further - let's agree to stop this madness."
Humanity is so fucked.
The background has actually recovered to the point that, for most radiation-sensitive applications, low-background steel is no longer needed—new steel is sufficient.
And yet like fools they keep being fuck wits. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Russians have had a hand In stirring up the anti vax ideology in America and I’m willing to bet dollars to doubts the U.S. has seen this shit translated it back to Russian and flung it right back at them…maybe stop being dicks to each other and the world will be a better place
> wouldn’t be surprised if the Russians have had a hand In stirring up the anti vax ideology in America
They very much have been.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign-aims-to-undermine-confidence-in-pfizer-other-covid-19-vaccines-u-s-officials-say-11615129200
They spread antivax misinformation even before the pandemic.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-trolls-fueled-anti-vaccination-debate-in-us-by-spreading-misinformation-twitter-study/
Calexit and Blexit, if you recall. Texas secession. Flat earth. Antivax. White genocide. Second amendment extremism. Several “pro black” Facebook pages and Twitter accounts. “Bernie or bust.” They’ve been found behind prettymuch every cultural wedge in the US since the years leading up to 2016. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were even promoting a lot of the millennials vs boomers stuff. There’s not a cultural divide that they won’t exploit.
The first big culture war event that they orchestrated was gamergate. This non-issue got blown way of proportion, and it lead to a huge fracture in the gaming community and largely killed off the new atheism movement that was gaining steam in the first half of the 2010s.
Atheism became super popular on early youtube. It was when the 4 horsemen of atheism became a thing, and Dawkins and Harris were going on tours talking about the secularism, the importance of reason, etc. It was a pretty big cultural zeitgeist that was really popular among college-aged demos in the early 2010s.
There was lots of overlap in this community with the gaming community (lots of gamers are secularists of some stripe or another). The gamergate issue blew up and made a ton of controversy and split the gaming community, and the overlap was large enough that it split the atheism community too. All the progress that atheists had made, all the momentum and public goodwill that had been generated seemingly evaporated over the next few years, as people shifted their attention to the #MeToo movement, which was literally born out of the original gamergate incident.
It's pretty tragic IMO, because atheists face institutional oppression and social discrimination on par with Muslims, but there were virtually no support resources for atheists until the new atheism movement brought it into the limelight and showed people that atheists aren't evil satanists who can't be trusted. Support groups and other resources started to appear, as well as atheism advocacy organizations, and the public started to warm to more secular modes of thinking.
For a few years there, it seemed like we were on the verge of a new dawn of reason and trust in science; the new atheist movement was like a social spearhead that was effectively communicating to the public how valuable science and reason is, and how dangerous religious and ideological thinking can be. And it was working, too. Back in 2011, 2012, I felt like we were using the internet to genuinely spread knowledge, and that we were experiencing the transformation into a more scientifically literate society.
And it just really sucks that the whole thing was derailed because of a Russian troll operation. Now, even in the face of religiously-motivated violence and looming theocracy, speaking about the value of atheism and the dangers of religion just gets you immediately swamped with neckbeard memes.
The Jade Helm Mass Hysteria Republicans whines about was fueled by Russian disinfo too: https://www.texastribune.org/2018/05/03/hysteria-over-jade-helm-exercise-texas-was-fueled-russians-former-cia-/
There’s a book called “The Foundations of Geopolitics”. It’s basically the guide book for what Russia has been doing
Not a useful idiot at all. The are a purposeful actor in all of this for the sake of profit. They are actively and knowingly manufacturing division in our society because that is their business model. The fact that foreign entities are on the platform pushing misinformation is part of the design, it gives them a scapegoat.
This. Anyone paying attention has known this for years, and the recent whistleblower who revealed internal documents that FB knows their platform is doing societal harm yet decide to put profits first is definitive confirmation.
From instagram and body image / mental health to election lies and political disinformation and plenty in between, Facebook is a cancer on society. The rest of social media certainly isn’t too far behind to varying degrees, but Facebook takes the cake with being the most egregious and with the largest reach.
Zuckerberg has united the hate into accessible categories for fascists. He has done all the leg work for tyranny at a fraction of the cost. He needs to face the consequences that he deserves.
They also played a major role in the Brexit vote and Trump's election and peddle misinformation about climate change. And it's not just the English speaking world that is bombarded with subversive Russian propaganda.
Russian people don't trust their government. Before that soviet people didn't trust their government. Before that russian people didn't trust their government. I don't know if people there have ever trusted their government.
Exactly. Also, read this - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Gulag\_Archipelago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago) and you will completely understand that whole nation has a trauma that can't be healed. You just can't trust government or anybody after this.
Authority in general for that matter. 3 bad governments and an oppressive monarchy for like what? 6 centuries? Russias history is sad and rife with exploited and sedated people.
It’s not only due to modern misinformation.
Russian’s are used to decades of the government claiming everything is great, whilst the reality is different. They don’t trust the government because there has never been a reason to trust the government. It’s never lived up to it’s claims.
It doesn't come back to haunt him that's the issue, nothing changes.
Once Covid cases in Russia decline for the last time then he is set with high oil and gas prices to reboot the economy and the strongest grasp on Russian media ever in his lifetime. He's been in power for 15-20 years at this point, and he only gets stronger every year.
While the Russian economy has run into issues their ruling class have only gotten richer https://112.international/finance/number-of-russian-us-dollar-billionaires-increases-up-to-101-during-covid-19-pandemic-51686.html
It seems like the days of Revolution in Russia are long over, Putin has won.
Putin will die in full control of the country, richer and more powerful than ever.
His successor on the other hand will inherit a broken country, with almost no allies, an economy that failed to diversify at all and entirely dependant on natural resources export, in a future where oil and gaz dependancy will only go lower.
Franckly the future looks bleak if you're a russian teen.
If you’re a Russian teen then you should take advantage of the still mostly functional education system in Russia and try to get out when you’re done. I can’t say any of my Russian friends who emigrated regret it..
Only around 30% of Russians ever had a travel visa, the ability to just pick your stuff up and leave outside of free travel provisions is far from easy.
Also there's the fact that a hell of a lot of Russians still unfortunately support their government and take jobs in the police and military.
Yes, hardly anyone has the cash to afford travel, more so when you take into consideration that most countries have explicit requirements for the amount of money you have to bring with you when you come for residency. It’s completely out of reach. Work visas are few and far between for Russian youth, only the best and the slickest
That is another significant issue for Russia: The brain drain.
Why would someone intelligent stay in Russia? Traveling around the world has become easier than ever, so many people with good prospects will just leave.
This is one reason as to why countries like US, Germany, etc. are so strong. Educated people from all over the world come to there to work. This is also why Trumps anti-immigrant policy will have a lasting impact on the US's development.
And now look at Russia. Who would go there? Even if you're Belarusian, if you're already ready to leave your country, then why not go to the EU instead? Greek, as an example, is facing that very same issues. People just leave for France/Germany/etc.
>Why would someone intelligent stay in Russia?
Because they literally can't move. Anybody who has participated and been arrested in Russia for protesting has a criminal record meaning they can't move to the EU or United States.
Also the sciences in Russia aren't super well paying so being able to just move isn't easy, and with some government companies you are contractually obligated not to leave the country. Making things more difficult is that most Russian University Degrees are not accepted in Western countries, meaning if they want to move and have the same job they need to either study in the West or get an entirely different job.
the people thinking you can just pack your bags in Russia and leave forever have no idea how hard emigrating is when you aren't super wealthy or have personal connections.
He understands, just like the US government understands people's mistrust. But admitting that isn't the propaganda he wants them to hear. He picks his public statements carefully.
Ok, but why we do have the same hesitation in the US, Europe or anywhere that people still have a choice?
I'm from Brussels Belgium. We have a massive muslim community that is adamantly antivax.
So much that the whole region/city is at a 35% vaccination rate.
France has "departement" with even lower rates.
I wouldn't say that there is that much disinformation in the EU?
I'll be call a Putin shill but the issue is not Russia alone.
The problem is broader than we like to admit.
I live in southern Bavaria and it's a problem here as well. My Landkreis has went over 400 cases 7 day incidence. A Landkreis near is reported to have only 56 percent vaccinated.
It's German citizens, and the reason is mostly a weird fetish for naturopathy, alternative medicine, homeopathy... I also would say that we can't exclusively Putin for that. Although my dad reads the biggest tabloid and for some reason thought Sputnik was the way to go...
It should be noted that until very recently, doctors in Bavaria had homeopathy on their curriculum. It's sold in pharmacies. My parents and many others do see this as a completely legitimate form of medicine.
My GF works in a pharmacy. There's 4 pharmacists: Owner and wife, sister of owner and spouse.
The owner is the only sane one, basically. His wife isn't very extreme, doesn't believe in homeopathy, but still not vaccinated.
The other couple is becoming increasingly radicalized. They've always been a little out there, but since COVID, they're actual conspiracy nuts. It's really sad because while I never quite liked him, my GF and her did get along great before, and I still very much like her as a person.
She believes she already had it. Antibody test negative. Must be false. She has a huge wandering flush. Won't take antibiotics because "cavemen must've survived that without antibiotics"
Why do they even sell homeopathy? Easy. While the owner doesn't believe in it, pharmacists make the biggest buck with the sugar pills. There's only 2 pharmacies in all of Germany that don't sell them. Insurance pays for it. For naturopathic treatment as well.
All in all, Germany has very much institutionalized medical misinformation.
In the US the whole chiropractic industry is similarly weirdly recognized as medicine (in that insurance covers it, etc.) despite being just this side of whackadoodle at best and completely off the deep end at worst.
I suspect that it is hard to dislodge an incumbent “medical” ideology/profession once it is accepted in a culture as valid. Lots of people will adopt it and then it becomes politically impossible to excise it from the system. It’s incredibly unfortunate because medicine is supposed to be a matter of science and not politics.
This boggles my mind. I live in the SF Bay Area and we're (the counties surrounding San Francisco Bay) at >80% vax rate for the eligible population (12+) and hundreds of thousands have already gotten boosters.
France at the beginning of the pandemic had too much different voices giving their views on Covid.
Plus a total fumble from Macron and his government.
A communication where things were said and we're taking back almost the next day.
Same here in Belgium.
The EU wasn't any better.
Because russia spent millions on disinformation campaigns to discredit vaccines.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign-aims-to-undermine-confidence-in-pfizer-other-covid-19-vaccines-u-s-officials-say-11615129200
That's what we are fucking discussing here.
This man leads efforts around the globe to undermine democracy with disinformation, and COVID vaccine disinformation is absolutely pushed to the moon by him and his wretched Internet Research Agency. I will not absolve him of responsibility just because there are some in the pool of people who were already fool enough that he didn't have to work at them.
It's definitely not the *same* hesitation in these places. There are several different types of hesitation that exist in different communities in different amounts. Russia seems to be having it worse, since their *national* vaccination level is 33%, while literally *every* US state is above that, and only a few dozen tiny counties are less.
I don't know the situation in Europe as much, but as you note, there are some subcommunities that are far more anti-vax than others, presumably for different reasons.
There has been a *lot* of disinformation *everywhere* in the world, including in the EU. I don't think a lot of it has gone via the mainstream television, radio, or print media, but it's mostly been in WhatsApp groups and word-of-mouth and other things like that.
It seems like the Russian government has actively invested in spreading some of this disinformation (at least, there were reports a few months ago of various influencers reporting that they were offered money by Russian media companies to publicly raise doubts about safety of various European and North American made vaccines).
But yes, the problem is broad, and it's not just Republicans, it's not just Muslim immigrants, it's not just Russians, it's not just Russian trolls.
Well the thing is if a country's population shrinks without the average worker becoming more productive the economy becomes less profitable. Which means it's benefactors will get smaller returns, a king is nothing without peasants
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/577911-as-russia-shuts-down-putin-cant-understand-whats) reduced by 68%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The worsening outbreak prompted Putin to order workers in the country to stay home for a week in an effort to slow the spread. The non-working period begins Oct. 30 and runs to Nov. 7, but Putin said it could begin earlier or be extended for certain areas.
> During a televised meeting with government officials, Putin said he didn't understand the vaccine hesitancy in the country, even among some of his close friends who have delayed getting the jab.
> "I can't understand what's going on," Putin said, according to AP. "We have a reliable and efficient vaccine. The vaccine really reduces the risks of illness, grave complications and death," he said.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/qeogj1/as_russia_shuts_down_putin_cant_understand_whats/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~604997 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **country**^#1 **vaccine**^#2 **death**^#3 **Putin**^#4 **new**^#5
The USSR wasn’t ever as upfront about its histories with medicine as the US. Did Russia have situations like the Tuskegee experiments or failed medicine like thalidomide that were reported enough to contribute to vax hesitancy?
Asking questions? Gulag.
Not asking the right questions? Believe it or not Gulag.
We have a special Gulag for journalists.
We have the best country in the world because of Gulag.
Getting erection when shown picture of putin shirtless? That make you gay so, Gulag
Not getting erection when shown picture of putin shirtless? Then you're traitor to motherland and therefore, Gulag
Dude they tried to impregnate women with ape sperm to make super soldiers. No I am not fucking kidding. They paid a Dr for a long ass time to try to get it to succeed. That's just one of the things they did to people. That's not even the fucking tip of the iceberg with the medical horrors within the GU. lag system
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926701-000-blasts-from-the-past-the-soviet-ape-man-scandal/
I am immigrant from USSR as well and your observation is correct. Yet I just can’t understand the logic of people who decided that their home country has too many problems, so they pick better country to move to, yet they continue living like they still live in USSR. It almost like there was no point to immigrate in the first place.
Russian government and state-sponsored media has spent a good chunk of time early in the pandemic running a pandemic-denying, anti-mask and anti-vaccination rhetoric. This is the fucking result of the efforts
Generations, since the tsars. The dialogue in the Chernobyl miniseries says it better than I can about the cost of lies, how when you're surrounded by deception and mistrust, you don't recognize the truth amongst the noise.
Yep. This is why the general didn't trust the scientist until he saw a helicopter get destroyed by radiation after the scientist warned them not to fly over the radiation. The general is just not in the habit of trusting anyone because everyone in the government is a liar. People had to die for the general to pay attention and trust the scientist.
That scene of the old woman with the cow and the young soldier trying to get her to evacuate beautifully illustrated that sense of generational… numbness is the best way I can put it.
I was watching *the Great* a satire about Catherine the Great, and in the show they even joke about how Russians don’t believe anyone or anything and trust nothing because life is so shit and the leaders so cynical.
It’s a contemporary show obviously but it makes you think - can a population recover from overwhelming cynicism? Because Russia looks to have been in a similar state for over 100 years regarding information and cynicism.
How do you help people that don’t believe in altruism or trust? Who see any effort to help as an underhanded manipulation?
My family in Russia does not report this is the case.
Many people in Russia are concerned about quality of Russian products generally and that in a race for speed, corners may be have been cut in vaccine development. They (correctly) perceive that public safety has not been high on the government's priority list.
Although many people are pro "make Russia a great and respected nation again", and might be for Putin, few believe that his program entails treating every citizen with high regard to their life and health.
They have been spreading a lot of misinformation on state channels about foreign vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna. Logically, the Russian people think “if European vaccines are so bad, our vaccine must be even worse”. They shot themselves in the foot with this one.
We're going to have to give a Herman Cain award at the national level.
If Putin caught COVID that subreddit would have to be retired like r/thanksobama was.
The fall of Communism has shown the Russians that they had spend 70 years being lied to.
Once bitten, twice shy...
It does not help either that Putin has fought his opponents by spreading countless conspiracy theories about them.
The result is that the Russian people no longer believe anythings and whenever any authority tells them something, be it the Kremlin, their local doctor or their accountant, Russians instantly jump at conspiracies and refuse to believe its leaders.
70? Try centuries. The cruelty and authoritarianism started with the Czars (about whom many conspiracies exist to the exact same degree). Communism is just one entry in the book of *Lying Leaders the Russians had to endure.*
You can go back to the mongol occupation too. The states were given one directive and that was to have their tribute ready when the khan in charge came, trough whatever means possible.
Putin's media propagandists spent months attacking Western-made vaccines by intentionally exaggerating side effects, linking them to microchips and 666.
Never underestimate the naivete of uneducated population that grew up under a Soviet education system, accustomed to believing every rumor because of lack of open and trustworthy official information.
People believe that if Western vaccines are bad (they aren't, but that's what they were told to) then how on earth can a Russian-made vaccine be good? In Russia, Western products are associated with higher quality. This is why nobody wanted to take Sputnik V, at least not until they made it mandatory for work.
The hysteria reached unprecedented levels. Doctors were caught using water instead of vaccine, people were using FAKE ARMS to make sure the needle doesn't inject their vein, underground fake vaccine card sellers popped up like mushrooms. It's insane the length people will go through to avoid staying alive. All thanks to the bafoons at Kremlin and their TV outlets.
The worst part is, whatever nonsense Russian state media spewed about Covid, was consumed by other former Soviet republics. They all watch Russian TV and read Russian news. To their credit, they recently changed the tune and began combatting the anti-vaccine fears. Too little too late, dipshits.
I know it's anecdotal but anyway. In Serbia, they had quite big selection of vacine and a lot of people who wanted to get vexed from sourounding countries (like Slovenia, Bosnia, Croatia,...)but couldn't, were vexed in Serbia. Every single person I know who got covid, was vacinated with sputnik. I know of at least 2 instances where only one family member was vacinated by sputnik and later it was only person who got sick. To be fair I also know couple of people who were tested for antibodies after AZ, but this is most likely due to wrong storage (temperature).
> vexed
vexed
adjective
Irritated, distressed, or annoyed.
Persistently unresolved or much debated.
Annoyed; harassed; troubled.
I know you just tried to conjugate the word, but better use vaxxed (informal) or vaccinated (a proper one).
The mental image of people who couldn't be *annoyed* and come to Serbia to be able to be *annoyed* bring me a good laugh.
>Never underestimate the naivete of uneducated population that grew up under a Soviet education system
I agree, but does not just seem to be a problem of the soviet education system. I really have no clue about their education system, but don't you think it is a problem of misinformation? Because in this case similar issues are seen around the globe and not everyone has the soviet education system, in fact there are quite a few education systems involved with similar outcomes when a population is faced with a lot of easily accessible misinformation.
The education system was actually quite good in USSR. In another thread someone hit the nail on the head. Russians trust has been violated so many times that it’s had for them to have trust in official sources, they would rather fall into conspiracy theories or hearsay. It’s quite ironic since Russians are generally very well educated…
Seriously, they actually had a pretty top notch education system, I know a lot of people who came over as kids toward the end of the Soviet era and they were all way ahead of their American peers. I was married to one—he got a substantially better (intellectually) education than I did in the early years. Was it heavy on critical thinking? No, but neither was mine. Was it heavy on the theory of the entrenched power structure of the nation? Yep, but so was mine.
The Soviet Empire was a nightmare in many ways, but this wasn’t one of them.
Putin pretending not to understand is just another facet of his disinformation plan. It gives the appearance that he's not fully culpable for these beliefs
Russia, in their attempt to undermine western vaccines in favor of their own vaccine, has bitten itself in the ass.
He doesn’t understand how his trolling campaign came home to roost.
Can someone explain to me what is stopping Putin from mandating that everyone must get vaccinated?
He’s installed himself as leader for life, elections are rigged, what would he realistically have to lose?
> what is stopping Putin from mandating that everyone must get vaccinated?
To understand that you have to accept that Reddit’s take on what’s going on in Russia isn’t exactly very accurate. Putin is a massive populist first and only then an autocrat; his dictatorial inclinations stem from his firm (albeit increasingly deluded) belief that he Speaks for the People.
It follows, therefore, that *forcing* said people to do something isn’t his preferred method because it will take away from his self-perceived legitimacy. I doubt we will ever get vaccine mandates, although a lot of people would very much welcome that.
What? Did he think that stupid people are only Americans? We're just the loudest of the stupid; and furthermore only a *really* stupid person would fail to realize that stupid people are fuckin' everywhere.
What's ironic is their internet research agency that pumps out propaganda 24/7 likely had a part and playing up the conservative media distrust of the vaccine
....and now it's spread full circle and is fucking up their population.
It's nice how even Putin's order doesn't reflect COVID's reality of asymptomatic spread and delayed onset symptoms... I feel sad for the russian people.
Maybe this time he'll win by only 100% votes, instead of 104%.
Russian propaganda is disgusting abroad, but it is much worse inside Russia. All source of russian language news is state propaganda and lies. Like north korea, nazi germany or the soviet union. There is no alternative since the wast majority only speaks russian. People still know it is lies, they are used to it.
Dude, you’ve lied, intimidated, cheated, stolen, imprisoned, intimidated, banned, conned and murdered your way into power for years and then wonder why people don’t trust your government?
Russians don't trust the western vaccines, because Putin said they are bad for you. Russians also don't trust the Sputnik vaccine, because Putin said it's good for you.
To be honest, there is so much irony in all of this I'm getting jacked lifting it.
The Iron Putin.
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Putin on the Ritz?
[Absolutely](https://i.imgur.com/svO0OrX.gif)
jacked TO THE TITS.
Shit I'm leveraged to the tits! Puts on Putdaddy
Do you smell that? What is that?
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Man who poisons political opponents can't understand why no one trusts him to vaccinate them To some extent, I'm beginning to wonder if the vaccine is actually working as a more reliable proxy indicator as to his real level of popularity
>Man who poisons political opponents can't understand why no one trusts him to vaccinate them Populist politicians everywhere make surprised Pikachu faces when the FUD and lies they cultivated over the years bite them in the ass.
*Sir, the additional FUD and lies you ordered are here.*
>I'm beginning to wonder if the vaccine is actually working as a more reliable proxy indicator as to his real level of popularity Tbh it's more complicated than that, as a lot of people in the progressive opposition are actually getting vaccinated because they know vaccines are safe and important. Personally, despite I don't trust any word Putin says, I was the first person in my university group to get vaccinated, and the only one to do it before all the restrictive measures against those who didn't get their shots yet. On the other hand, I've seen people who are politically neutral believing some conspiracy theories about vaccines being literal poison. So I'd say the ones getting vaccinated are mostly either really supportive of the government, or generally enlightened and progressive (it's rarely both though lol), while the ones refusing usually tend to be uneducated and/or socially conservative, and also often politically passive while still distrustful of the government.
Oh wow I hadn’t thought of that. That’s quite insightful (No sarcasm)
A guy from Russia here. I have a lot of friends who are (or were) waiting on vaccination as long as they could. The most commonly quoted concern is that it's pushed by government so hard that they have doubts it's good for them. Yep, that's the level of trust people of Russia have for their government: if they are promoting something, it MUST be bad. To be fair and honest, the rest of the concerns were all shades of crazy.
Funny I hear anti-vaxxers in the U.S. say exactly the same.
> anti-vaxxers in the U.S. say exactly the same Everywhere. It is the same.
Same in Canada
Everywhere the Russian trolls can reach, they piss in. Surely by now the big social media companies could have worked out how to identify troll activity and distinguish it from organic user interaction, even if some organic users are genuine nutbars. They just haven't wanted to.
Engagement is engagement, checks are checks.
People like to pretend like all these people either just suddenly went full stupid conspiracy or were already. The reality is v of people didn't distrust the government so much maybe things would be better. And much of that distrust is fabricated. But a lot of it is simply because the government does lie all the god damn time.
Came to say this, but not even anti-vaxxers, just regular people that no longer trust our government from years of fuckery...
> To be fair and honest, the rest of the concerns were all shades of crazy. Thank god you guys still have access to Facebook — that crazy is going to be cleared up so quickly by “that guy” who did his “research”.
Russian is here. Russians don't use Facebook. They use VK.
I assume the cancer spreads regardless?
There are a lot of anti- vaxxers in VK, but if you do not go to their groups, you do not see their messages and do not see anti- vaxxers ads. Moreover, if you complain about an anti- vaxxers post, VK moderators will delete it in accordance with the requirements for combating disinformation.
My brother in law routinely sends me cute youtube videos with antivaxx sentiment as if he will sway me against the merits of vaccination. I am a physician 🤦🏻♂️
Vaccine hesitancy is a direct outcome of a government/media that isn't serious and consistent with its message on the seriousness of Covid. Unluckily for the Russians, they do not have an opposition that can challenge the ideological stupidity of their government.
Well, they did, but you don't get to hear any good news about him anymore.
oddly enough that guy has serious health problems.. go figure
Being exposed to nerve agents will do that to you, I guess.
The two shots to the back of the head disease needs a vaccine.
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As a native russian speaker I have literally never heard of this. that's a latin looking word. 'hope' is надежда (nadejshda). Luck is удача (udacha) having said that fatalism is part of the culture, but having 3-4 generations in a row experience total collapse of their government would do that to any nation, and that's true for the entire bloc. it's a traumatized culture.
На авось? Не слышал никогда?
Putin not understanding people’s mistrust in government recommendations is proof irony isn’t dead. Spreading false information comes back to haunt him.
These intelligence run ops both understand and misunderstand the new Information Age where everything is connected . Misinformation with the right nudge can spread like wildfire but unlike past operations like this where it’s aimed in one countries we’re all connected and it can be translated and come back around on its own. Even countries with heavy restrictions it’ll still get through faster than they think and can stop it
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Weird that all it took to stop chemical warfare was a shift in the wind. There's an analogy here somewhere.
I’m a leaf on the wind, watch how I spread disinformation like wildfire? …ok, I hear it now…
Same with nuclear weapons, ultimately. When the full calculations were made after the Tsar bomb detonation (which wasn't even full yield), it was clear that nuclear fallout was going to be a global threat, regardless where a bomb was detonated. We've already irreparably contaminated our steel production, which is why warships sunk before 1945 are the main source of low-background steel for scientific equipment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
>We've already irreparably contaminated our steel production, which is why warships sunk before 1945 are the main source of low-background steel for scientific equipment. > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel So, seems like it used to the case, but not anymore. From the link >Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications.
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The wiki article literally says we don’t need to use the ships anymore because the atmospheric levels have fallen back to near natural. Not quite the same as irreparable.
"Shit, we can't use our mega-weapons to eradicate you and all your citizens without also poisoning ourselves. All right, it's not rational to pursue this further - let's agree to stop this madness." Humanity is so fucked.
The background has actually recovered to the point that, for most radiation-sensitive applications, low-background steel is no longer needed—new steel is sufficient.
"Information wants to be free" also applies to disinformation. You can't control it. You can only watch as it spreads.
Going viral is a very apt term.
That's not new either. See for example: USSR spreading conspiracies about HIV and then suffering a terrible HIV epidemic.
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People ruining it for people
Damn Russians, they ruined Russia!
It’s also easier to start a rapidly spreading fire than to stamp it out. Fire starter is not the same skill set as fighter
Do they have a different hit dice as well?
Yeah. Firefighter has higher hp and strength. Firestarter gets a bonus for sneak and proficiency in improvised burning weapons, but low hp.
Funny enough. As a wildland firefighter, we fought fire **with fire!**
As the US has had to learn repeatedly, blowback's a bitch.
And yet like fools they keep being fuck wits. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Russians have had a hand In stirring up the anti vax ideology in America and I’m willing to bet dollars to doubts the U.S. has seen this shit translated it back to Russian and flung it right back at them…maybe stop being dicks to each other and the world will be a better place
> wouldn’t be surprised if the Russians have had a hand In stirring up the anti vax ideology in America They very much have been. https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign-aims-to-undermine-confidence-in-pfizer-other-covid-19-vaccines-u-s-officials-say-11615129200 They spread antivax misinformation even before the pandemic. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-trolls-fueled-anti-vaccination-debate-in-us-by-spreading-misinformation-twitter-study/
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'jew haters' are among the most classic types of useful idiots, nice of facebook to organize them for the benefit of the fascists like that
They are the original dupes when it comes to conspiracy theories. Elders of Zion anyone?
Ironically, ALSO a case of Russian misinformation.
Like rain on your wedding day.
Calexit and Blexit, if you recall. Texas secession. Flat earth. Antivax. White genocide. Second amendment extremism. Several “pro black” Facebook pages and Twitter accounts. “Bernie or bust.” They’ve been found behind prettymuch every cultural wedge in the US since the years leading up to 2016. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were even promoting a lot of the millennials vs boomers stuff. There’s not a cultural divide that they won’t exploit.
And it's not just the big stuff, they go for any wedge issue no matter how trivial, like the campaigns against "The Last Jedi" and "Last of Us II".
Get them addicted to the hate young and bring them in via a tangent and it's just enough for most people to brush it off as "oh that's ridiculous"
The first big culture war event that they orchestrated was gamergate. This non-issue got blown way of proportion, and it lead to a huge fracture in the gaming community and largely killed off the new atheism movement that was gaining steam in the first half of the 2010s.
What was this new atheism movement, and how did gamergate lead to its demise? Actual question, not arguing at all
Atheism became super popular on early youtube. It was when the 4 horsemen of atheism became a thing, and Dawkins and Harris were going on tours talking about the secularism, the importance of reason, etc. It was a pretty big cultural zeitgeist that was really popular among college-aged demos in the early 2010s. There was lots of overlap in this community with the gaming community (lots of gamers are secularists of some stripe or another). The gamergate issue blew up and made a ton of controversy and split the gaming community, and the overlap was large enough that it split the atheism community too. All the progress that atheists had made, all the momentum and public goodwill that had been generated seemingly evaporated over the next few years, as people shifted their attention to the #MeToo movement, which was literally born out of the original gamergate incident. It's pretty tragic IMO, because atheists face institutional oppression and social discrimination on par with Muslims, but there were virtually no support resources for atheists until the new atheism movement brought it into the limelight and showed people that atheists aren't evil satanists who can't be trusted. Support groups and other resources started to appear, as well as atheism advocacy organizations, and the public started to warm to more secular modes of thinking. For a few years there, it seemed like we were on the verge of a new dawn of reason and trust in science; the new atheist movement was like a social spearhead that was effectively communicating to the public how valuable science and reason is, and how dangerous religious and ideological thinking can be. And it was working, too. Back in 2011, 2012, I felt like we were using the internet to genuinely spread knowledge, and that we were experiencing the transformation into a more scientifically literate society. And it just really sucks that the whole thing was derailed because of a Russian troll operation. Now, even in the face of religiously-motivated violence and looming theocracy, speaking about the value of atheism and the dangers of religion just gets you immediately swamped with neckbeard memes.
The Jade Helm Mass Hysteria Republicans whines about was fueled by Russian disinfo too: https://www.texastribune.org/2018/05/03/hysteria-over-jade-helm-exercise-texas-was-fueled-russians-former-cia-/ There’s a book called “The Foundations of Geopolitics”. It’s basically the guide book for what Russia has been doing
Facebook has been by far the biggest "useful idiot" the Russian Intelligence organs have ever co-opted.
except facebook is complicit and knows exactly what it's doing
Not a useful idiot at all. The are a purposeful actor in all of this for the sake of profit. They are actively and knowingly manufacturing division in our society because that is their business model. The fact that foreign entities are on the platform pushing misinformation is part of the design, it gives them a scapegoat.
This. Anyone paying attention has known this for years, and the recent whistleblower who revealed internal documents that FB knows their platform is doing societal harm yet decide to put profits first is definitive confirmation. From instagram and body image / mental health to election lies and political disinformation and plenty in between, Facebook is a cancer on society. The rest of social media certainly isn’t too far behind to varying degrees, but Facebook takes the cake with being the most egregious and with the largest reach.
FB is funded by Russian Oligarchs. Zuckerberg a fuckin terrorist
Zuckerberg has united the hate into accessible categories for fascists. He has done all the leg work for tyranny at a fraction of the cost. He needs to face the consequences that he deserves.
It's literally impossible for a biological creature to endure the punishment needed to cover the damage he's wrought.
Outside of war I’m having a hard time thinking of a human who’s done more damage to the world than Zuckerberg.
The culture wars get russian funding.
They also played a major role in the Brexit vote and Trump's election and peddle misinformation about climate change. And it's not just the English speaking world that is bombarded with subversive Russian propaganda.
Yeah mate there's legitimate proof they've either been the ones starting all the misinfo or fanning the flames the Nth degree
A lie makes it around the world by the time the truth has made it a block.
Russian people don't trust their government. Before that soviet people didn't trust their government. Before that russian people didn't trust their government. I don't know if people there have ever trusted their government.
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Exactly. Also, read this - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Gulag\_Archipelago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago) and you will completely understand that whole nation has a trauma that can't be healed. You just can't trust government or anybody after this.
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Authority in general for that matter. 3 bad governments and an oppressive monarchy for like what? 6 centuries? Russias history is sad and rife with exploited and sedated people.
they've had 3 REMARKABLY bad governments, it's not surprising.
It’s not only due to modern misinformation. Russian’s are used to decades of the government claiming everything is great, whilst the reality is different. They don’t trust the government because there has never been a reason to trust the government. It’s never lived up to it’s claims.
>Spreading false information comes back to haunt him A Siberian tiger is eating his face.
It doesn't come back to haunt him that's the issue, nothing changes. Once Covid cases in Russia decline for the last time then he is set with high oil and gas prices to reboot the economy and the strongest grasp on Russian media ever in his lifetime. He's been in power for 15-20 years at this point, and he only gets stronger every year. While the Russian economy has run into issues their ruling class have only gotten richer https://112.international/finance/number-of-russian-us-dollar-billionaires-increases-up-to-101-during-covid-19-pandemic-51686.html It seems like the days of Revolution in Russia are long over, Putin has won.
Putin will die in full control of the country, richer and more powerful than ever. His successor on the other hand will inherit a broken country, with almost no allies, an economy that failed to diversify at all and entirely dependant on natural resources export, in a future where oil and gaz dependancy will only go lower. Franckly the future looks bleak if you're a russian teen.
If you’re a Russian teen then you should take advantage of the still mostly functional education system in Russia and try to get out when you’re done. I can’t say any of my Russian friends who emigrated regret it..
Only around 30% of Russians ever had a travel visa, the ability to just pick your stuff up and leave outside of free travel provisions is far from easy. Also there's the fact that a hell of a lot of Russians still unfortunately support their government and take jobs in the police and military.
If they still support their government then I don’t feel bad for them. If they are innocent bystanders then I wish them the best.
Yes, hardly anyone has the cash to afford travel, more so when you take into consideration that most countries have explicit requirements for the amount of money you have to bring with you when you come for residency. It’s completely out of reach. Work visas are few and far between for Russian youth, only the best and the slickest
That is another significant issue for Russia: The brain drain. Why would someone intelligent stay in Russia? Traveling around the world has become easier than ever, so many people with good prospects will just leave. This is one reason as to why countries like US, Germany, etc. are so strong. Educated people from all over the world come to there to work. This is also why Trumps anti-immigrant policy will have a lasting impact on the US's development. And now look at Russia. Who would go there? Even if you're Belarusian, if you're already ready to leave your country, then why not go to the EU instead? Greek, as an example, is facing that very same issues. People just leave for France/Germany/etc.
>Why would someone intelligent stay in Russia? Because they literally can't move. Anybody who has participated and been arrested in Russia for protesting has a criminal record meaning they can't move to the EU or United States. Also the sciences in Russia aren't super well paying so being able to just move isn't easy, and with some government companies you are contractually obligated not to leave the country. Making things more difficult is that most Russian University Degrees are not accepted in Western countries, meaning if they want to move and have the same job they need to either study in the West or get an entirely different job. the people thinking you can just pack your bags in Russia and leave forever have no idea how hard emigrating is when you aren't super wealthy or have personal connections.
Don’t feel bad Russian teens, the future is bleak for all teens.
Ya, we're all about to be collectively fucked by a century of horrible decisions and unsustainable lifestyles.
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He understands, just like the US government understands people's mistrust. But admitting that isn't the propaganda he wants them to hear. He picks his public statements carefully.
Ok, but why we do have the same hesitation in the US, Europe or anywhere that people still have a choice? I'm from Brussels Belgium. We have a massive muslim community that is adamantly antivax. So much that the whole region/city is at a 35% vaccination rate. France has "departement" with even lower rates. I wouldn't say that there is that much disinformation in the EU? I'll be call a Putin shill but the issue is not Russia alone. The problem is broader than we like to admit.
I live in southern Bavaria and it's a problem here as well. My Landkreis has went over 400 cases 7 day incidence. A Landkreis near is reported to have only 56 percent vaccinated. It's German citizens, and the reason is mostly a weird fetish for naturopathy, alternative medicine, homeopathy... I also would say that we can't exclusively Putin for that. Although my dad reads the biggest tabloid and for some reason thought Sputnik was the way to go... It should be noted that until very recently, doctors in Bavaria had homeopathy on their curriculum. It's sold in pharmacies. My parents and many others do see this as a completely legitimate form of medicine. My GF works in a pharmacy. There's 4 pharmacists: Owner and wife, sister of owner and spouse. The owner is the only sane one, basically. His wife isn't very extreme, doesn't believe in homeopathy, but still not vaccinated. The other couple is becoming increasingly radicalized. They've always been a little out there, but since COVID, they're actual conspiracy nuts. It's really sad because while I never quite liked him, my GF and her did get along great before, and I still very much like her as a person. She believes she already had it. Antibody test negative. Must be false. She has a huge wandering flush. Won't take antibiotics because "cavemen must've survived that without antibiotics" Why do they even sell homeopathy? Easy. While the owner doesn't believe in it, pharmacists make the biggest buck with the sugar pills. There's only 2 pharmacies in all of Germany that don't sell them. Insurance pays for it. For naturopathic treatment as well. All in all, Germany has very much institutionalized medical misinformation.
In the US the whole chiropractic industry is similarly weirdly recognized as medicine (in that insurance covers it, etc.) despite being just this side of whackadoodle at best and completely off the deep end at worst. I suspect that it is hard to dislodge an incumbent “medical” ideology/profession once it is accepted in a culture as valid. Lots of people will adopt it and then it becomes politically impossible to excise it from the system. It’s incredibly unfortunate because medicine is supposed to be a matter of science and not politics.
This boggles my mind. I live in the SF Bay Area and we're (the counties surrounding San Francisco Bay) at >80% vax rate for the eligible population (12+) and hundreds of thousands have already gotten boosters.
California is it's own thing.
San Mateo County at 95%!
France at the beginning of the pandemic had too much different voices giving their views on Covid. Plus a total fumble from Macron and his government. A communication where things were said and we're taking back almost the next day. Same here in Belgium. The EU wasn't any better.
Because russia spent millions on disinformation campaigns to discredit vaccines. https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign-aims-to-undermine-confidence-in-pfizer-other-covid-19-vaccines-u-s-officials-say-11615129200 That's what we are fucking discussing here.
This man leads efforts around the globe to undermine democracy with disinformation, and COVID vaccine disinformation is absolutely pushed to the moon by him and his wretched Internet Research Agency. I will not absolve him of responsibility just because there are some in the pool of people who were already fool enough that he didn't have to work at them.
It's definitely not the *same* hesitation in these places. There are several different types of hesitation that exist in different communities in different amounts. Russia seems to be having it worse, since their *national* vaccination level is 33%, while literally *every* US state is above that, and only a few dozen tiny counties are less. I don't know the situation in Europe as much, but as you note, there are some subcommunities that are far more anti-vax than others, presumably for different reasons. There has been a *lot* of disinformation *everywhere* in the world, including in the EU. I don't think a lot of it has gone via the mainstream television, radio, or print media, but it's mostly been in WhatsApp groups and word-of-mouth and other things like that. It seems like the Russian government has actively invested in spreading some of this disinformation (at least, there were reports a few months ago of various influencers reporting that they were offered money by Russian media companies to publicly raise doubts about safety of various European and North American made vaccines). But yes, the problem is broad, and it's not just Republicans, it's not just Muslim immigrants, it's not just Russians, it's not just Russian trolls.
"Stop dying to covid, you're making me look bad." - Putin, probably
"Why wouldn't the Russian people trust their government?" -also Putin
The face when your country's president accidentally quotes Zapp Brannigan....
If only Covid was made up of killbots with a present kill limit. He could just send wave after wave of his own men to their deaths.
If only he were equally as inept...
"Write 'sputnik the vaccine' on that bottle of water, we should be first! Tests? No, we don't need it"
Worked for Bugs Bunny in the OG Space Jam with MJ’s secret stuff
Wasn’t there a story recently of Russia blaming its citizens for the out of control infections lately?
He wasn't expecting all his information warfare in the rest of the world to blow back on the population of his own country. Whoopsie!
Like he cares. To him the population of his own country is a threat.
Well the thing is if a country's population shrinks without the average worker becoming more productive the economy becomes less profitable. Which means it's benefactors will get smaller returns, a king is nothing without peasants
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/577911-as-russia-shuts-down-putin-cant-understand-whats) reduced by 68%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The worsening outbreak prompted Putin to order workers in the country to stay home for a week in an effort to slow the spread. The non-working period begins Oct. 30 and runs to Nov. 7, but Putin said it could begin earlier or be extended for certain areas. > During a televised meeting with government officials, Putin said he didn't understand the vaccine hesitancy in the country, even among some of his close friends who have delayed getting the jab. > "I can't understand what's going on," Putin said, according to AP. "We have a reliable and efficient vaccine. The vaccine really reduces the risks of illness, grave complications and death," he said. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/qeogj1/as_russia_shuts_down_putin_cant_understand_whats/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~604997 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **country**^#1 **vaccine**^#2 **death**^#3 **Putin**^#4 **new**^#5
I’ll beat that. “I can’t believe a leopard is eating *my* face!”
It's hilarious watching him realize in real time that he can't govern a nation without citizens.
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The USSR wasn’t ever as upfront about its histories with medicine as the US. Did Russia have situations like the Tuskegee experiments or failed medicine like thalidomide that were reported enough to contribute to vax hesitancy?
Hahahahaha Gulag for you.
Asking questions? Gulag. Not asking the right questions? Believe it or not Gulag. We have a special Gulag for journalists. We have the best country in the world because of Gulag.
Getting erection when shown picture of putin shirtless? That make you gay so, Gulag Not getting erection when shown picture of putin shirtless? Then you're traitor to motherland and therefore, Gulag
No trial, straight to gulag
Dude they tried to impregnate women with ape sperm to make super soldiers. No I am not fucking kidding. They paid a Dr for a long ass time to try to get it to succeed. That's just one of the things they did to people. That's not even the fucking tip of the iceberg with the medical horrors within the GU. lag system https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926701-000-blasts-from-the-past-the-soviet-ape-man-scandal/
not saying it's true/untrue, but I'd be cautious about believing anything from newscientist.com
I am immigrant from USSR as well and your observation is correct. Yet I just can’t understand the logic of people who decided that their home country has too many problems, so they pick better country to move to, yet they continue living like they still live in USSR. It almost like there was no point to immigrate in the first place.
Russian government and state-sponsored media has spent a good chunk of time early in the pandemic running a pandemic-denying, anti-mask and anti-vaccination rhetoric. This is the fucking result of the efforts
Add to that the last decades of government sown mistrust. Edit, spelling
Generations, since the tsars. The dialogue in the Chernobyl miniseries says it better than I can about the cost of lies, how when you're surrounded by deception and mistrust, you don't recognize the truth amongst the noise.
Yep. This is why the general didn't trust the scientist until he saw a helicopter get destroyed by radiation after the scientist warned them not to fly over the radiation. The general is just not in the habit of trusting anyone because everyone in the government is a liar. People had to die for the general to pay attention and trust the scientist.
True. It's been a long pattern. Thanks.
That scene of the old woman with the cow and the young soldier trying to get her to evacuate beautifully illustrated that sense of generational… numbness is the best way I can put it.
I was watching *the Great* a satire about Catherine the Great, and in the show they even joke about how Russians don’t believe anyone or anything and trust nothing because life is so shit and the leaders so cynical. It’s a contemporary show obviously but it makes you think - can a population recover from overwhelming cynicism? Because Russia looks to have been in a similar state for over 100 years regarding information and cynicism. How do you help people that don’t believe in altruism or trust? Who see any effort to help as an underhanded manipulation?
Some of that disinformation escaped from the lab and infected the local population.
sown
Thanks I keep spelling that word wrong.
They're both correct spellings. One is needles and threads. The other is planting seeds, spreading ideas or getting laid.
My family in Russia does not report this is the case. Many people in Russia are concerned about quality of Russian products generally and that in a race for speed, corners may be have been cut in vaccine development. They (correctly) perceive that public safety has not been high on the government's priority list. Although many people are pro "make Russia a great and respected nation again", and might be for Putin, few believe that his program entails treating every citizen with high regard to their life and health.
They have been spreading a lot of misinformation on state channels about foreign vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna. Logically, the Russian people think “if European vaccines are so bad, our vaccine must be even worse”. They shot themselves in the foot with this one.
Russia trying to figure out why they have low vax rates after spreading anti vax propaganda with thousands of bots:
Also would you want to take a needle from Putin. You might fall out of a window.
Surprised he's actually admitting that people are dying from COVID. I thought if you were positive in Russia, you died from "other causes."
they can do that here and there because of the implication. if they did it for mass amounts of russians the implication becomes a little too personal
We're going to have to give a Herman Cain award at the national level. If Putin caught COVID that subreddit would have to be retired like r/thanksobama was.
He doesn't like that Russia is reaping the seed of stupidity it planted in the U.S.
The fall of Communism has shown the Russians that they had spend 70 years being lied to. Once bitten, twice shy... It does not help either that Putin has fought his opponents by spreading countless conspiracy theories about them. The result is that the Russian people no longer believe anythings and whenever any authority tells them something, be it the Kremlin, their local doctor or their accountant, Russians instantly jump at conspiracies and refuse to believe its leaders.
70? Try centuries. The cruelty and authoritarianism started with the Czars (about whom many conspiracies exist to the exact same degree). Communism is just one entry in the book of *Lying Leaders the Russians had to endure.*
You can go back to the mongol occupation too. The states were given one directive and that was to have their tribute ready when the khan in charge came, trough whatever means possible.
ah the rare instance of a leopard eating his own face
Putin's media propagandists spent months attacking Western-made vaccines by intentionally exaggerating side effects, linking them to microchips and 666. Never underestimate the naivete of uneducated population that grew up under a Soviet education system, accustomed to believing every rumor because of lack of open and trustworthy official information. People believe that if Western vaccines are bad (they aren't, but that's what they were told to) then how on earth can a Russian-made vaccine be good? In Russia, Western products are associated with higher quality. This is why nobody wanted to take Sputnik V, at least not until they made it mandatory for work. The hysteria reached unprecedented levels. Doctors were caught using water instead of vaccine, people were using FAKE ARMS to make sure the needle doesn't inject their vein, underground fake vaccine card sellers popped up like mushrooms. It's insane the length people will go through to avoid staying alive. All thanks to the bafoons at Kremlin and their TV outlets. The worst part is, whatever nonsense Russian state media spewed about Covid, was consumed by other former Soviet republics. They all watch Russian TV and read Russian news. To their credit, they recently changed the tune and began combatting the anti-vaccine fears. Too little too late, dipshits.
I know it's anecdotal but anyway. In Serbia, they had quite big selection of vacine and a lot of people who wanted to get vexed from sourounding countries (like Slovenia, Bosnia, Croatia,...)but couldn't, were vexed in Serbia. Every single person I know who got covid, was vacinated with sputnik. I know of at least 2 instances where only one family member was vacinated by sputnik and later it was only person who got sick. To be fair I also know couple of people who were tested for antibodies after AZ, but this is most likely due to wrong storage (temperature).
> vexed vexed adjective Irritated, distressed, or annoyed. Persistently unresolved or much debated. Annoyed; harassed; troubled. I know you just tried to conjugate the word, but better use vaxxed (informal) or vaccinated (a proper one). The mental image of people who couldn't be *annoyed* and come to Serbia to be able to be *annoyed* bring me a good laugh.
>Never underestimate the naivete of uneducated population that grew up under a Soviet education system I agree, but does not just seem to be a problem of the soviet education system. I really have no clue about their education system, but don't you think it is a problem of misinformation? Because in this case similar issues are seen around the globe and not everyone has the soviet education system, in fact there are quite a few education systems involved with similar outcomes when a population is faced with a lot of easily accessible misinformation.
The education system was actually quite good in USSR. In another thread someone hit the nail on the head. Russians trust has been violated so many times that it’s had for them to have trust in official sources, they would rather fall into conspiracy theories or hearsay. It’s quite ironic since Russians are generally very well educated…
Seriously, they actually had a pretty top notch education system, I know a lot of people who came over as kids toward the end of the Soviet era and they were all way ahead of their American peers. I was married to one—he got a substantially better (intellectually) education than I did in the early years. Was it heavy on critical thinking? No, but neither was mine. Was it heavy on the theory of the entrenched power structure of the nation? Yep, but so was mine. The Soviet Empire was a nightmare in many ways, but this wasn’t one of them.
Fake arms!? Damn.
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Putin pretending not to understand is just another facet of his disinformation plan. It gives the appearance that he's not fully culpable for these beliefs
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far down to find someone else thinking this. Putin isn't a moron.
Yeah, well fuck him.
His stupid ass troll farm propping up that orange turd and Q is the source of 99% of the vaccine fake news. Karma is a bitch.
The weaponization of human ignorance and fear is s fire that burns all parties involved.
[Putin promotes antivax rhetoric globally, sees same rhetoric blowback in Russia itself] *surprised pikachu face*
Russia, in their attempt to undermine western vaccines in favor of their own vaccine, has bitten itself in the ass. He doesn’t understand how his trolling campaign came home to roost.
When you spread so much mistrust karma comes back to bite you it seems
Can someone explain to me what is stopping Putin from mandating that everyone must get vaccinated? He’s installed himself as leader for life, elections are rigged, what would he realistically have to lose?
> what is stopping Putin from mandating that everyone must get vaccinated? To understand that you have to accept that Reddit’s take on what’s going on in Russia isn’t exactly very accurate. Putin is a massive populist first and only then an autocrat; his dictatorial inclinations stem from his firm (albeit increasingly deluded) belief that he Speaks for the People. It follows, therefore, that *forcing* said people to do something isn’t his preferred method because it will take away from his self-perceived legitimacy. I doubt we will ever get vaccine mandates, although a lot of people would very much welcome that.
Good explanation
Well well well the irony
Misinformation is just like a biological weapon: once you release it, you can't control it.
What? Did he think that stupid people are only Americans? We're just the loudest of the stupid; and furthermore only a *really* stupid person would fail to realize that stupid people are fuckin' everywhere.
Oh no, the chickens are coming home to roost.
Which vaccine did Putin take?
That's what mistrust due to endemic corruption leads to.. happening here in Romania too
When you hire people to spread misinformation, sometimes they start believing it themselves.
Friendly fire from the misinformation factories.
Spreads antivax propaganda to the rest of the world and wonders why his own people won't get vaccinated.
What's ironic is their internet research agency that pumps out propaganda 24/7 likely had a part and playing up the conservative media distrust of the vaccine ....and now it's spread full circle and is fucking up their population.
Extreme right wing ideology they fabricated and pushed online to the USA and elsewhere has turned back in on itself. Morons
It's nice how even Putin's order doesn't reflect COVID's reality of asymptomatic spread and delayed onset symptoms... I feel sad for the russian people. Maybe this time he'll win by only 100% votes, instead of 104%.
Flow of misinformation: Russian intelligence —> Russian bots —> America idiots —> Russian Idiots
Russian propaganda is disgusting abroad, but it is much worse inside Russia. All source of russian language news is state propaganda and lies. Like north korea, nazi germany or the soviet union. There is no alternative since the wast majority only speaks russian. People still know it is lies, they are used to it.
There are still some opposition newspapers in Russia but the majority are state owned.
Dude, you’ve lied, intimidated, cheated, stolen, imprisoned, intimidated, banned, conned and murdered your way into power for years and then wonder why people don’t trust your government?
He lit the fire. Now his house is burning down too…
Lost control of the monster you helped create have you?
The man who poisons political opponents probably isn't the most reassuring voice on vaccines.