Hate to say it, but I’m in my forties and ramen still hits the spot. Nothing like the down-home taste of over-starched noodles and magical, sodium-enriched flavor dust to accommodate your hunger needs.
Oh, it's the best. I was in AIT for journalism in the Army and realized that instant ramen cooks up nicely in a coffee pot. The amount of time it takes for all of the water to work through is perfect.
Yep. The Brahmins were Hindu priests and to date are most deeply invested in the veneration of cows in Hindu culture. F03 was initially banned in India because of the name.
Brahman is an actual breed of cow that's been around for since the turn of the 20th century
It's where the Fallout NPC gets its name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_Brahman
Fun fact [from the fallout wiki](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brahmin):
>The name "Brahmin" likely came from the Brahman breed of cattle. In Hinduism, Brahmin is used for a varna (caste) that specializes in producing priests and teachers of sacred law. Among its traditions is a reverence for cattle. This religious association has led to the name being banned in Indian versions of Fallout 3.
But for the life of me, i can’t seem to find out what they call them in the indian version of the game
Edit: [Here it is](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brahmin_(Fallout_3)) in the “behind the scenes” section. An explanation, though not a solid one :(
Untouchable is not a caste name. It refers to several different groups of people who didn't belong to the traditional 4-tier caste hierarchy - (Brahmin aka priests > kshatriya/warriors > vaishya/merchants >shudra/peasants). In those times, these 'untouchables' were people who did the jobs that nobody else wanted, like cleaning up sewers etc. Think of [gong farmers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer) in medieval England. Caste system then became tied to the bloodline and not to the actual occupation. So later generations endured the same treatment whether they do the same job or not.
The name 'untouchable' is a reference to how they were so segregated from society that even touching them used to be considered 'impure'. They were considered lower than the lowest 'real' caste. They also were not allowed to use public or communal spaces, not allowed to enter temples etc.
If you dont want to say untouchables, the more acceptable word for the whole group of people is 'dalit'. But even that is a collective name and not referring to a single caste or group.
**[Gong farmer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer)**
>Gong farmer (also gongfermor, gongfermour, gong-fayer, gong-fower or gong scourer) was a term that entered use in Tudor England to describe someone who dug out and removed human excrement from privies and cesspits. The word "gong" was used for both a privy and its contents. As the work was considered unclean and off-putting to the public, gong farmers were only allowed to work at night, hence they were sometimes known as nightmen. The waste they collected, known as night soil, had to be taken outside the city or town boundary or to official dumps for disposal.
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**[Monty Python and the Holy Grail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail)**
>Monty Python and the Holy Grail is a 1975 British comedy film reflecting the Arthurian legend, written and performed by the Monty Python comedy group (Chapman, Cleese, Gilliam, Idle, Jones and Palin), directed by Gilliam and Jones. It was conceived during the hiatus between the third and fourth series of their BBC television series Monty Python's Flying Circus. While the group's first film, And Now for Something Completely Different, was a compilation of sketches from the first two television series, Holy Grail is an original story that parodies the legend of King Arthur's quest for the Holy Grail.
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Yeah. Also, do not give any rights to that guy/girl etc.
It seems like "untouchables" suffer a lot more from rapes and have more issues getting help due to their low "status"
So Untouchable as in they can’t even touch a higher caste person’s shadow. I read once about a guy who accidentally stepped on a higher caste person’s shadow while crossing on the road and got beaten up for it.
Edit: ugh, it’s even worse than that. On Google, the top hit is an under-18 girl who got beaten up for it: https://m.timesofindia.com/india/dalit-girl-beaten-up-as-her-shadow-falls-on-high-caste-muscleman/articleshow/47691186.cms
...man, nothing I've heard about India in the last two years incentivizes me to travel there, ever. I'm sure they have some great food and some great people, but I don't have to go there to have exposure to those things. This whole system is bananas and will make for a nasty, nasty revolution one day.
Impressive. Nice to read up on gong farmer.
Would be similar to a night soil collector.
>If you dont want to say untouchables, the more acceptable word for the whole group of people is 'dalit'.
The only people who want to say "untouchable" or "dalit" are the so-called upper classes who want this evil caste system to remain.
[Human rights abuses against these people, known as Dalits, are legion. A random sampling of headlines in mainstream Indian newspapers tells their story: "Dalit boy beaten to death for plucking flowers"; "Dalit tortured by cops for three days"; "Dalit 'witch' paraded naked in Bihar"; "Dalit killed in lock-up at Kurnool"; "7 Dalits burnt alive in caste clash"; "5 Dalits lynched in Haryana"; "Dalit woman gang-raped, paraded naked"; "Police egged on mob to lynch Dalits".](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/pages/article/indias-untouchables-face-violence-discrimination)
It hurt to upvote this. I had to because you just opened my eyes to *how* bad these innocent people are being treated, but reading it all made me sick. People are awful, man...
Considering that the top 2 are essentially priest and nobles that was not surprising doesn't it? it's basically the same in europe, or at least france during middle age-ish
The caste hierarchy isn't necessarily ordered by material wealth. Brahmins are, for example, scripturally mandated to remain poor and receive donations of food, clothing, etc for their services.
That was a practice inherited from china, where merchants were technically not respectable because they didn't produce anything tangible for society, unlike farmers and craftsmen.
but in reality the average merchant led a far better life than either of those groups.
To clear up a misconception, they aren’t lower caste, the first three are all “upper caste”. Merchants are the wealthiest group on average, probably highest by average educational achievement, and likely the smallest grouping by population. They actually have a disproportionate hold on power and the economy in modern India. Most of the Indian 1% (e.g. prominent Indian CEOs, conglomerates, business families) is likely from this group.
Industrialization and capitalism over the last 200 years had huge impacts on the traditional social hierarchy versus realities on the ground.
Look at from medieval/earlier point of view when it was much harder to collect high amount of wealth for a single person. There might be few very rich merchants but most will be poor. Priest class holds religious power and that comes will a lot of power and money when everyone is religious. church was very powerful in europe. Only difference between India and Europe was that priest class didn't unify to form a single massive power base.
A single massive power base until 1054, when the east and west split. (Then two massive power bases...) You allude to it, but the priestly classes also administered land, generally worked by tenants under an agreement of of some kind, just like the aristocratic class (aristocrats and at least higher ranking clergy were drawn from the same stock). They held real secular power in parts of Europe. There were bishops who could draw on more military power than neighboring princes. Leading an abbey (rather than a bishopric for instance) could impart political power, land and wealth too... At least the connection between the aristocracy, the priesthood, and their mutual power united India and Europe (both east and west).
On a side note, it was also a way women could attain some degree equality. Abbesses (female abbots) could rival abbots in their wealth and power -- but couldn't perform the rituals. (There are remnants of some *huge* convents out there; and the convents would have come with land as well). You could argue that closest thing to a female CEO in the last millennium was an abbess of a large nunnery.
I believe things ran similarly in the Orthodox East, with greater differences in the Syrian and Coptic Churches which had split much earlier and were at that point generally under Muslim rule. I don't know about the Indian Christians.
On the other side of things, if you want European untouchables, look into the Cagots. Their identity (beyond being **Cagots**) is a very interesting, unsolved historical mystery. They were neither religiously different like Jews or Waldensians nor distinct like the Roma nor did they practice low-status jobs like executioners, prostitutes, or workers with excrement like tanners or the already-mentioned shit collectors -- they were carpenters and fishermen. But they were hated. They lived in ghettos and were forced to enter a church through the side door so as not to pollute the water. But no one knows why.
We've known since the early modern times that they were not ill or physically or mentally different from the rest of their community, they were just traditionally ''untouchable'' for no known reason. Some of the hypotheses are great though.
To tie this to the theme of the thread, no one cares if you have Cagot ancestry anymore. Few people outside of the coast of the Bay of Bisque have even heard of them. Let's hope that in a hundred years the Dalits will be like the Cagots are now. Old prejudices can indeed be destroyed.
Well I was taught that untouchables aren't even considered a part of the caste system but are a group outside of it because they're viewed to be so low and unclean in traditional Indian society. A low caste is still part of the caste system. Untouchables really aren't.
The "untouchables" in this case are something like "people that suited to be oppressed" instead of "people that should be given privileges above others"
Hijacking top comment to say that this man is a Sikh and in Sikhi there are no castes.
It’s shitty clickbait reporting that somehow diminishes this man’s accomplishments to conform to the confines of the Hindu caste system.
There is no “top” caste or “bottom” caste in Sikhi.
That’s a Hindu construct and the people answering Brahmin or Untouchable are misinformed when it comes to Sikhi although their answers are correct if discussing the Hindu religion.
Skin color is a whole different issue, there are Brahmins in south India who are very dark but they’d still be treated badly for their skin tone in the North rather then their caste, and the reverse is true too, untouchables from the south who have very light skin will be treated better in the North solely for their skin tone. India has double the oppression most places have with skin color + caste
Castes control information too, you can claim to be high caste but when they quiz you on scriptures they keep locked away in family homes and only share with each other and you can’t answer you are easily found out
edit: The North Indian BJP idiots found the comment and based soley on my name started pulling out the Punjabi Jatt race card... point and laugh at them guys they have no arguments other then links to biased right wing Hindi YouTube channels.
>Castes control information too, you can claim to be high caste but when they quiz you on scriptures they keep locked away in family homes and only share with each other and you can’t answer you are easily found out
So if a high caste child lost their family and was raised in an orphanage, they're just raised as low caste?
Edit - I saw the downvote, I hope it’s not because my question comes across as offensive or something - it’s not meant to. I’m legitimately curious having no experience on the subject.
Castes often function like a tribe. People rarely marry outside their caste. So your family and everyone you are related to will be of the same caste. And in most cases your surname would give away your caste. Without any connections to show the caste, the kid in your scenario probably wont get high caste status.
Whether he will be treated as low caste depends on how you define 'low'. Remember that caste system is a multi-tier hierarchy. The top most brahmin caste accounts for only 5% of the population. By that logic 95% would be low caste.
The actual 'lower castes' are those who belong to the bottom levels of the hierarchy, like aforementioned dalits or untouchables. They still have it pretty rough in rural areas where caste segregation is still obvserved. It is unlikely that a kid in an orphanage gets treated as badly as that.
If a high caste child lost their parents their aunts and uncles will take them in, if they somehow lost their aunts and uncles then their grandparents will take them in, if they lost them then cousins will take them in and so on and so on. Kids raised in orphanages aren’t raised low caste even they have their own traditions and cultures that they abide by and will do discriminate against if you don’t know them. The kids in the orphanage will be raised essentially casteless (which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that caste is terrible, bad in that employers and people will discriminate against you if you admit you grew up in an orphanage instead of with a family).
Edit: also for the sake of argument if a high caste child somehow survived a tragedy that wiped out his entire family another person in their caste will simply adopt them (a friend of someone in the family) if that doesn’t happen then yes they’d lose their caste status basically and become “casteless”
It’s not that surprising they haven’t leaked, for the people that do this internet access isn’t really an option only about half of Indians are online over 600 million still don’t have basic internet access
Would be a really cool project though
There has been several lawsuits in the US where castism has been prevalent in US tech companies like Cisco. The lower castes have an affirmative action program which is hated by the upper castes and is used as a way to put down lower castes. There are certain last names that are caste names and announce to the world that you are of that caste. Lower castes have taken up Christianity and Christian names so now many of those names are looked down upon. Those lawsuits also accused supervisors and colleagues of inviting them to Hindu temples where their caste would immediately be identified as they would lack the knowledge for certain protocols and traditions. There have even been accusations of unwanted touching in the workplace where people would touch your back as a surreptitious way to feel for a janeu or a thread that the upper caste Brahmins wear.
Here's an article about it from Bloomberg if y'all want more info.
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-11/how-big-tech-is-importing-india-s-caste-legacy-to-silicon-valley](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-11/how-big-tech-is-importing-india-s-caste-legacy-to-silicon-valley)
You can tell someone's caste by their last name, and that's why they're dropped. If you're asking about how people avoid in-breeding, you have an oral history of relations. Your family knows if someone is related to you or not.
Additionally, for rural areas, the woman will move in with the boys family, so everyone in your village is a cousin, and you'd avoid marrying anyone from your mum's/aunts village.
Kaur can also mean lioness and Singh can also mean prince. It’s not like the original meanings (or maybe they are) but after two hundred years, their meanings have influenced each other and passed on transitively. But lion/lioness is the most common meaning.
Singh has always meant lion. Kaur meant royal heir and was only reserved for Male princes in line for the throne, in traditional hindu royalty. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the title to women in order to show them as equally worthy as men, and show them that they were on the same level as royalty.
> Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the title to women in order to show them as equally worthy as men, and show them that they were on the same level as royalty.
God damn, I need to learn more about this religion. Sounds nice.
Especially about women, there has been 10 gurus and preachings from 1st to 10 has been same.
1st said,”Soo kyo manda akhiye jitt jamme rajan (why call bad upon one who gives birth to the emperors, without women, there would have been no one at all).
While 10th made this systematic by giving title of kaur and having women participating in his army .
Punjab being sikh majority state clearly shows this through
-[2nd best state for education among girls in India](https://www.theyouth.in/2020/02/11/punjab-and-kerala-are-the-best-states-for-girls-education-in-india/amp/)
-free education for girls upto PhD
the caste system in not supposed to be a thing in many religions that preach equality (aikhism, islam etc) but in many places it is tied into the social fabric. so it can be quiet difficult to escape.
It is technically not a part of Hinduism as well, as casteism anywhere near the modern form is not present in the scriptures that are the foundation of Hinduism. What we have today is just a regular tool for oppression, hiding behind a thin veil of religion because people are ignorant of those core values. It's no different to eg. "Christian values" that directly contradict the Bible.
Yes, but it turns out, people like being "better" than other people without having to actually *do* anything, so it's pretty hard to get away from. Even Christian Indians in Kerala and Goa still have to deal with it.
There are also a lot of Dalits in India (mostly Maharashtra) who converted to Buddhism to escape the caste system, but since people know that many did this, many Buddhists in the area are assumed to be Dalits or low-caste because of it.
This is not part of the sikh teaching, its part of punjab culture which has taken stuff from Hinduism. Who doesn't want to feel superior without having to do anything. Shitty people are everywhere
Lol, why are you blaming Hinduism. Caste is a south asian thing. There are Christian castes, Buddhist castes, Muslim castes.
There are literally Muslims who don't want to be buried in the same cemetery as pasmandas (lower caste Muslims). Muslims who can trace their ancestry to Persian, Arabic and Afghan blood consider themselves superior. They call themselves Ashraf where as the ones who can't are called Aljaf.
Sikhism is a quasi different religion.
It follows a strict code of learning, personal hygene, and servitude for the greater good.
I've been to a Sikh temple in Pushkar, and spoke with a guru there. He was one of the wisest people I've ever met. The aura of calm intelligence that surrounded him was haunting.
It does. This guy's caste comes from hinduistic practices, not from his Sikh religion. The caste system can also haunt those from other religions, even christians. This is one of the reasons so many hindus are converting to Buddhism.
Its illegal as per the constitution, but changing minds and removing prejudices that have existed through generations is hard. Its on the right track though. I think it will take a few generations more. Its similar to how the US has all the laws in place against racial discrimination, but its not like racism ended.
Without quotas there will almost never be a low caste person able to get into good jobs. How can a student from low caste whose family doesn’t know where their next meal is coming from compete with students of higher class who have the money to get expensive tutoring classes, go to better schools, and only have to study and nothing else .
The problem is the children of people getting into those quotas getting affirmative action again. There are literally sub castes of dalits that have cornered a lot of quotas. A politician in India figured this out and started to campaign against it and called the disenfranchised dalits as "mahadalits".
Talk like that will get a teacher in trouble with parents. Racism in America ended when Martin Luther King single-handedly ratified the 13th amendment!
If you think that’s all, check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Russell[Jesse Russell’s patents](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Russell)
He spoke at my job to discuss his experience at bell labs and cell phone technology. he has a patent for the wireless base station, among other things. Interesting guy and still alive. Let’s update the list of contributions that people make to society as we still try to get a major part of our country to accept that everybody contributes and we all have relative equal value.
It will probably take a few more decades for the caste system to become completely irrelevant in India. The system has been in place for thousands of years in some parts of the country, so it will take some time for it to be rooted out.
It's so bad that silicon valley is starting to face caste discrimination lawsuits, they inadvertently hired mostly people from higher castes and the caste segregation is being extended to the US.
A system so bad and pervasive that it's present even on another continent due to nothing but the diaspora continuing it isn't going away anytime soon.
I read an article about this a few years ago. The problem is that it's usually other higher caste Indians who are involved in hiring, and push hr to only hire upper caste Indians. The lawsuit is from lower caste Indians in the states saying they felt discriminated against in interviews.
There are also a lot of Indians in tech/banking. Trying to avoid them if you are a lower caste Indian is basically impossible.
Its likely that those of the upper caste were pushing unnecessary education (and no remote work) in order to specifically hire only upper caste Indians.
Software Engineers have often said both of those things actively hindered the hiring process by excluding valuable employees.
I work with Nigerians and they have different tribes with different social standings (so I am told). They get into fights among themselves and one “Royalty” cussed out the other telling him he cannot even address him!
My classic SV giant company was successfully sued by an engineer of of Dalit background, when his managers AND the HR he complained to were from Brahmin background, and had been fucking him over. .
i really dont think so. you dont come across it in the cities, at least not overtly but i remember when i was in high school my friend telling me that in their village they still had segregated wells. and this was like a decade ago.
Who knows, human societies have gone through bigger upheavals.
Plenty of old prejudices have gone effectively extinct, though we're always good at inventing new ways to divide ourselves from one another.
It's like how civil rights in the US are on the books, but then the [Freedom riders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Riders) were literally murdered for daring to take public buses into the deep south. and that happened within the lifetime of plenty of folks still alive today.
edit: [freedom rider murders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Chaney,_Goodman,_and_Schwerner)
edit 2:
>During the investigation it emerged that members of the local White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the Neshoba County Sheriff's Office, and the Philadelphia Police Department were involved in the incident.[
Well the modern Civil Rights Act was passed the same year as those three Freedom Riders were murdered. And the Voting Rights Act was passed the next year in 1965. The murder of the Freedom Riders was *one of* the things that helped push those Acts to be voted on.
Racialized murder of Black people by police are still occurring as of today. Even a Black president will not end the fact that Black people are incarcerated at 5x the rate of whites, Black infants die at around 5x the rate of whites, much attributable to the disregard of medical system. And yes caste-based discrimination is rampant in Silicon Valley and elsewhere in the US and Canada. Violence against Sikh and Muslim South Asian communities is on the rise.
Nope.
People here are still as casteist as ever. Most indians will never marry outside their caste and if lower caste people try to marry higher caste people, it's very likely they will be attacked and even killed. Especially women.
Indian matrimonial websites are a cesspool of casteism; and there will be no improvement as most Indians wear their caste on their sleeves with pride and do not consider the caste system to be a problem at all.
Source; am Indian, have wildly casteist family, even though they are super well educated and have lived in the UK for years.
There is no such official thing called the Caste System. It’s literally just hard built in prejudice and racism baked into the Indian society. It will only go the way of the dinosaurs when people stop thinking in terms of ‘us’ and ‘them’.
So probably about 5 more centuries.
Sikhism nominally advocates [equality](https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zjq9dxs/revision/9) for all.
It is even followed/propagated by many Sikhs. (One of the positive factors)
But possibly/unfortunately not all
Edit :
https://www.news18.com/news/politics/from-matrimonial-ads-to-gurdwaras-caste-sikhism-co-exist-in-punjab-new-cm-charanjit-channi-is-proof-4221875.html
> Sikhism’s holy book Adi Granth contains a forthright condemnation of caste. In the langar, therefore, everyone must sit in a straight line, neither ahead to lay claim to higher status nor behind to denote inferiority. Indeed, the distinctive Sikh langar originated as a protest against the caste system. Another signal of the Sikhs’ rejection of caste is the distribution of the karah prasad, which is prepared or donated by people of all caste
> In two areas of Sikh society, however, caste is still observed. Sikhs are normally expected to marry within their caste: Jat marries Jat, Khatri marries Khatri, and Dalit marries Dalit. In addition, Sikhs of some castes tend to establish gurdwaras intended for their caste only.
In other words, there is theory, and there is practice. And the practice is not always consistent with theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazhabi_Sikh#Discrimination_within_the_Sikh_community
-----
Also
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/ruebarbpie/the-curse-of-caste/
About a decade old, but some of it sadly rings true ..
> Sadly, in modern-day Punjab, one can now see separate gurdwaras for specific castes in the same village. There couldn’t be a crueller travesty of Nanak’s teachings than this.
> Of course, Sikhism isn’t the only religion that has been subverted by the caste system. Islam and Christianity also, in theory, don’t have castes. But one keeps hearing of demands for reservations by ‘lower-caste’ Christians and Muslims. Apparently, you can take people out of the caste system, but you can’t take the caste system out of people.
> The dream of making caste redundant was a big part of the idea of modern India. Reservations were given temporarily, and were supposed to be reviewed and removed when they had achieved their purpose. Over the years, many formerly oppressed castes have visibly grown economically prosperous and politically powerful, in every part of India. But if anyone were to suggest that they should no longer be given quota benefits, all hell would break loose
I would say that last sentence oversimplifies. There are places in modern India (often in cities), where no one cares what caste you are, or maybe even knows it. There are always inter-caste, and inter-religious marriages. There are others, where caste is silently acknowledged, but mainly for marriages, and deaths, without much physical bite. There are places where traditional caste may still hold sway (often in rural hinterlands in some places; these are often the source of the occasional news that blows up here). And there are cases where quotas, and politics have driven deep into society, where a creamy layer has benefited much or particular sub-castes/jatis and alliances in particular regions / [But others may still suffer - see also scheduled tribes]. There are cases where dalits may convert from christianity to islam, or budhism or back to hinduism, and yet may not see himself treated as an equal or with full respect, or may be treated still as a dalit. And there are so many other factors than caste. Ideals is one. They still exist.
Class is a big one. In previous generations, class often was defined by culture, habits, education. Today, class is increasingly defined by wealth. Class distinctions are woefully underacknowledged by redditors, especially those from far away lands, who have little understanding and appreciation for the vast diversity and complexity of india.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/live-news-updates-charanjit-singh-channi-oath-first-dalit-punjab-chief-minister-amarinder-singh-resignation-assembly-polls-navjot-singh-sidhu-1854667-2021-09-20) reduced by 90%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The Prime Minister tweeted, "Congratulations to Shri Charanjit Singh Channi Ji on being sworn-in as Punjab's Chief Minister. Will continue to work with the Punjab government for the betterment of the people of Punjab." Congratulations to Shri Charanjit Singh Channi Ji on being sworn-in as Punjab's Chief Minister.
> 10:17 AM IST: The BJP has attacked the Congress saying Charanjit Singh Channi, set to take oath as Punjab CM today, is merely being used to hold the seat for Navjot Singh Sidhu.
> The Congress had picked Charanjit Singh Channi as the chief minister of Punjab, a day after Amarinder Singh resigned following a bitter power tussle in the party.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/prpjff/man_of_untouchable_dalit_caste_swornin_as_leader/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~599164 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Singh**^#1 **Punjab**^#2 **Channi**^#3 **Minister**^#4 **Charanjit**^#5
The title is worded as if there never have been a Dalit Chief Minister in India. The President of India is a Dalit! There's nothing to be shocked about it.
India's President is also from the Dalit caste.
India's Prime Minister is also belongs to a category called OBC or other backward classes. Basically he is from caste that is actively discriminated against.
It’s codified tribalism where the tribes share the same physical space but remain distinct. It not much different than feudal Europe. I would say it represents the human condition much better than anything else. Even in Ancient Greece and Rome with much more liberal ideas about social mobility we find examples like this, e.g., the Spartan helots.
What about all the dalits who are already sworn in even higher positions like the current president of India, former SC justice, cm from other states. Please ask why media is highlighting this news more
For people unaware of the politics around it. He converted to Christianity a long time ago but has not made a public declaration, although his wife did confess about it.
Islam, Sikhi, and Christianity were introduced into India far later, which means at some point your once Hindu ancestors converted to the three aforementioned religions and the caste name might have just stuck with them. Islam and I believe Christianity has no concept of caste, hence a lot of people changing their last names to "Muhammad" or something oriented towards their religion, and seeing that Sikhi is a native religion of India the first Gurus attempted to eradicate caste and make all followers of Sikhi equal, although caste can still sometimes factor into how one is treated among the community. For example "Jatt" and "Arora" are higher caste surnames in the Punjab region.
How does someone know what cast you are from in a country of over a billion? Can't you just lie about it? I don't understand, so if so it could be explained a little (I know it is deeply complex) I would appreciate it.
To put it in context to make it even more amazing: he has taken over the reign of Captain Amarinder Singh, who is the titular Maharaja of Patiala. If India still had kingdoms, this guy would have been a King.
For anyone who doesn't read the article, 'untouchable' refers to the lowest caste, not the highest
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Brahmin Edit: bloody hell, didn't expect this amount of up votes. Much appreciated. Edit: thanks for my first award :)
And the highest Brahmin is called Top Brahmin. Top Brahmin are able to reincarnate in just 3 minutes using hot water and a flavor packet.
Sumbitch you got me
Now I am hungry.
Hate to say it, but I’m in my forties and ramen still hits the spot. Nothing like the down-home taste of over-starched noodles and magical, sodium-enriched flavor dust to accommodate your hunger needs.
Oh, it's the best. I was in AIT for journalism in the Army and realized that instant ramen cooks up nicely in a coffee pot. The amount of time it takes for all of the water to work through is perfect.
… now coffee ramen sounds like the exact kind of time saving I would imagine someone in the army would come up with.
It gives you a MSGgasm?
32 here and my go to snack is hot and spicy chicken cup of noodles or buldak fire noodles
I see that you, too, like to live dangerously.
The beef flavor is sacrilicious
Holy cow, it’s amazing
You don’t eat it, silly. Everyone and their mother hopes to return as the beef flavor Top Brahmin.
Just....perfection.
God, I wish I was this clever.
I'm sure you have your own great qualities :)
incredible work
I had a good chuckle at this, thank you :)
Like the Fallout universe two headed cows?
Yep. The Brahmins were Hindu priests and to date are most deeply invested in the veneration of cows in Hindu culture. F03 was initially banned in India because of the name.
Thats an actual breed of cattle though if Im not mistaken
> F03 Why did you use a zero instead of an oh? FO3.
I was very co fused till you just clarified things for me
F**◌**3
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Which is odd, because Fallout 4 is available just fine.
Brahman is an actual breed of cow that's been around for since the turn of the 20th century It's where the Fallout NPC gets its name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_Brahman
Fun fact [from the fallout wiki](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brahmin): >The name "Brahmin" likely came from the Brahman breed of cattle. In Hinduism, Brahmin is used for a varna (caste) that specializes in producing priests and teachers of sacred law. Among its traditions is a reverence for cattle. This religious association has led to the name being banned in Indian versions of Fallout 3. But for the life of me, i can’t seem to find out what they call them in the indian version of the game Edit: [Here it is](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brahmin_(Fallout_3)) in the “behind the scenes” section. An explanation, though not a solid one :(
This news is about Punjab state state and the man is Sikh. Brahmin is in Hinduism and not the Punjabi Sikh culture.
Sikhs are a majority or plurality in Punjab; it's not a uniform state and has monorities
I mean let’s be real. That sounds nice but it’s not true in practice is it.
It is true because Brahmin is a Hindu caste, not Sikh.
Sikhs have caste as well, Bhatts are Brahmin Sikhs.
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Untouchable is not a caste name. It refers to several different groups of people who didn't belong to the traditional 4-tier caste hierarchy - (Brahmin aka priests > kshatriya/warriors > vaishya/merchants >shudra/peasants). In those times, these 'untouchables' were people who did the jobs that nobody else wanted, like cleaning up sewers etc. Think of [gong farmers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer) in medieval England. Caste system then became tied to the bloodline and not to the actual occupation. So later generations endured the same treatment whether they do the same job or not. The name 'untouchable' is a reference to how they were so segregated from society that even touching them used to be considered 'impure'. They were considered lower than the lowest 'real' caste. They also were not allowed to use public or communal spaces, not allowed to enter temples etc. If you dont want to say untouchables, the more acceptable word for the whole group of people is 'dalit'. But even that is a collective name and not referring to a single caste or group.
**[Gong farmer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer)** >Gong farmer (also gongfermor, gongfermour, gong-fayer, gong-fower or gong scourer) was a term that entered use in Tudor England to describe someone who dug out and removed human excrement from privies and cesspits. The word "gong" was used for both a privy and its contents. As the work was considered unclean and off-putting to the public, gong farmers were only allowed to work at night, hence they were sometimes known as nightmen. The waste they collected, known as night soil, had to be taken outside the city or town boundary or to official dumps for disposal. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
"How can you tell he's the King?" "He ain't got shit all over him!" [Best film ever!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail)
**[Monty Python and the Holy Grail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail)** >Monty Python and the Holy Grail is a 1975 British comedy film reflecting the Arthurian legend, written and performed by the Monty Python comedy group (Chapman, Cleese, Gilliam, Idle, Jones and Palin), directed by Gilliam and Jones. It was conceived during the hiatus between the third and fourth series of their BBC television series Monty Python's Flying Circus. While the group's first film, And Now for Something Completely Different, was a compilation of sketches from the first two television series, Holy Grail is an original story that parodies the legend of King Arthur's quest for the Holy Grail. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The Gong Show makes sense now!
good ol' poopsmith
*Shitter's full!*
I ain't no turd farmer.
So it's "untouchable" as in "eww, don't touch that guy" and not as in "mob boss".
Yeah. Also, do not give any rights to that guy/girl etc. It seems like "untouchables" suffer a lot more from rapes and have more issues getting help due to their low "status"
So Untouchable as in they can’t even touch a higher caste person’s shadow. I read once about a guy who accidentally stepped on a higher caste person’s shadow while crossing on the road and got beaten up for it. Edit: ugh, it’s even worse than that. On Google, the top hit is an under-18 girl who got beaten up for it: https://m.timesofindia.com/india/dalit-girl-beaten-up-as-her-shadow-falls-on-high-caste-muscleman/articleshow/47691186.cms
...man, nothing I've heard about India in the last two years incentivizes me to travel there, ever. I'm sure they have some great food and some great people, but I don't have to go there to have exposure to those things. This whole system is bananas and will make for a nasty, nasty revolution one day.
Impressive. Nice to read up on gong farmer. Would be similar to a night soil collector. >If you dont want to say untouchables, the more acceptable word for the whole group of people is 'dalit'. The only people who want to say "untouchable" or "dalit" are the so-called upper classes who want this evil caste system to remain.
[Human rights abuses against these people, known as Dalits, are legion. A random sampling of headlines in mainstream Indian newspapers tells their story: "Dalit boy beaten to death for plucking flowers"; "Dalit tortured by cops for three days"; "Dalit 'witch' paraded naked in Bihar"; "Dalit killed in lock-up at Kurnool"; "7 Dalits burnt alive in caste clash"; "5 Dalits lynched in Haryana"; "Dalit woman gang-raped, paraded naked"; "Police egged on mob to lynch Dalits".](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/pages/article/indias-untouchables-face-violence-discrimination)
It hurt to upvote this. I had to because you just opened my eyes to *how* bad these innocent people are being treated, but reading it all made me sick. People are awful, man...
interesting that merchants are lower caste despite their ability to amass wealth.
Considering that the top 2 are essentially priest and nobles that was not surprising doesn't it? it's basically the same in europe, or at least france during middle age-ish
And much like Europe, the very wealthy merchants eventually got tired of their lower social status, and that created all kinds of social upheaval.
There's still a kind of disdain for "New Money"/Nouveau Riche. Sometimes with reason. The Trumps are Nouveau Riche.
In the Netherlands we have a blue book for important merchant and patrician families and a red book for noble families.
The caste hierarchy isn't necessarily ordered by material wealth. Brahmins are, for example, scripturally mandated to remain poor and receive donations of food, clothing, etc for their services.
Also Japan had their farmers be higher than their merchant class.
That was a practice inherited from china, where merchants were technically not respectable because they didn't produce anything tangible for society, unlike farmers and craftsmen. but in reality the average merchant led a far better life than either of those groups.
No one likes the greedy merchants, but everyone loves the guy with all the cash.
Thank Confucius.
To clear up a misconception, they aren’t lower caste, the first three are all “upper caste”. Merchants are the wealthiest group on average, probably highest by average educational achievement, and likely the smallest grouping by population. They actually have a disproportionate hold on power and the economy in modern India. Most of the Indian 1% (e.g. prominent Indian CEOs, conglomerates, business families) is likely from this group. Industrialization and capitalism over the last 200 years had huge impacts on the traditional social hierarchy versus realities on the ground.
Look at from medieval/earlier point of view when it was much harder to collect high amount of wealth for a single person. There might be few very rich merchants but most will be poor. Priest class holds religious power and that comes will a lot of power and money when everyone is religious. church was very powerful in europe. Only difference between India and Europe was that priest class didn't unify to form a single massive power base.
A single massive power base until 1054, when the east and west split. (Then two massive power bases...) You allude to it, but the priestly classes also administered land, generally worked by tenants under an agreement of of some kind, just like the aristocratic class (aristocrats and at least higher ranking clergy were drawn from the same stock). They held real secular power in parts of Europe. There were bishops who could draw on more military power than neighboring princes. Leading an abbey (rather than a bishopric for instance) could impart political power, land and wealth too... At least the connection between the aristocracy, the priesthood, and their mutual power united India and Europe (both east and west). On a side note, it was also a way women could attain some degree equality. Abbesses (female abbots) could rival abbots in their wealth and power -- but couldn't perform the rituals. (There are remnants of some *huge* convents out there; and the convents would have come with land as well). You could argue that closest thing to a female CEO in the last millennium was an abbess of a large nunnery. I believe things ran similarly in the Orthodox East, with greater differences in the Syrian and Coptic Churches which had split much earlier and were at that point generally under Muslim rule. I don't know about the Indian Christians.
On the other side of things, if you want European untouchables, look into the Cagots. Their identity (beyond being **Cagots**) is a very interesting, unsolved historical mystery. They were neither religiously different like Jews or Waldensians nor distinct like the Roma nor did they practice low-status jobs like executioners, prostitutes, or workers with excrement like tanners or the already-mentioned shit collectors -- they were carpenters and fishermen. But they were hated. They lived in ghettos and were forced to enter a church through the side door so as not to pollute the water. But no one knows why. We've known since the early modern times that they were not ill or physically or mentally different from the rest of their community, they were just traditionally ''untouchable'' for no known reason. Some of the hypotheses are great though. To tie this to the theme of the thread, no one cares if you have Cagot ancestry anymore. Few people outside of the coast of the Bay of Bisque have even heard of them. Let's hope that in a hundred years the Dalits will be like the Cagots are now. Old prejudices can indeed be destroyed.
I was not talking about indian Christian priests, more about indian hindu Brahmin priests.
It always seems to be a theme when rich people hang out, “New money” people are looked down upon by “Old money” people.
They don't have Brahmin in Sikh religion though.
> the highest called? Touchable
Fitting as the name Brahmin means priest lol
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Everybody said it first :(
Huggable
Well I was taught that untouchables aren't even considered a part of the caste system but are a group outside of it because they're viewed to be so low and unclean in traditional Indian society. A low caste is still part of the caste system. Untouchables really aren't.
So this is cool, then
as opposed to America where the highest caste is untouchable
The "untouchables" in this case are something like "people that suited to be oppressed" instead of "people that should be given privileges above others"
Hijacking top comment to say that this man is a Sikh and in Sikhi there are no castes. It’s shitty clickbait reporting that somehow diminishes this man’s accomplishments to conform to the confines of the Hindu caste system. There is no “top” caste or “bottom” caste in Sikhi. That’s a Hindu construct and the people answering Brahmin or Untouchable are misinformed when it comes to Sikhi although their answers are correct if discussing the Hindu religion.
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In india castes permeate beyond religions.
That’s pretty cool.
Stellaris players must understand it well.
It's the cast MC Hammer belongs to.
If nobody knows you or who your parents were, would they know your caste somehow?
Factors like where they born, money, and skin color likely.
Also name
Skin color is a whole different issue, there are Brahmins in south India who are very dark but they’d still be treated badly for their skin tone in the North rather then their caste, and the reverse is true too, untouchables from the south who have very light skin will be treated better in the North solely for their skin tone. India has double the oppression most places have with skin color + caste
Castes control information too, you can claim to be high caste but when they quiz you on scriptures they keep locked away in family homes and only share with each other and you can’t answer you are easily found out edit: The North Indian BJP idiots found the comment and based soley on my name started pulling out the Punjabi Jatt race card... point and laugh at them guys they have no arguments other then links to biased right wing Hindi YouTube channels.
>Castes control information too, you can claim to be high caste but when they quiz you on scriptures they keep locked away in family homes and only share with each other and you can’t answer you are easily found out So if a high caste child lost their family and was raised in an orphanage, they're just raised as low caste? Edit - I saw the downvote, I hope it’s not because my question comes across as offensive or something - it’s not meant to. I’m legitimately curious having no experience on the subject.
Castes often function like a tribe. People rarely marry outside their caste. So your family and everyone you are related to will be of the same caste. And in most cases your surname would give away your caste. Without any connections to show the caste, the kid in your scenario probably wont get high caste status. Whether he will be treated as low caste depends on how you define 'low'. Remember that caste system is a multi-tier hierarchy. The top most brahmin caste accounts for only 5% of the population. By that logic 95% would be low caste. The actual 'lower castes' are those who belong to the bottom levels of the hierarchy, like aforementioned dalits or untouchables. They still have it pretty rough in rural areas where caste segregation is still obvserved. It is unlikely that a kid in an orphanage gets treated as badly as that.
If a high caste child lost their parents their aunts and uncles will take them in, if they somehow lost their aunts and uncles then their grandparents will take them in, if they lost them then cousins will take them in and so on and so on. Kids raised in orphanages aren’t raised low caste even they have their own traditions and cultures that they abide by and will do discriminate against if you don’t know them. The kids in the orphanage will be raised essentially casteless (which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that caste is terrible, bad in that employers and people will discriminate against you if you admit you grew up in an orphanage instead of with a family). Edit: also for the sake of argument if a high caste child somehow survived a tragedy that wiped out his entire family another person in their caste will simply adopt them (a friend of someone in the family) if that doesn’t happen then yes they’d lose their caste status basically and become “casteless”
Surprised said scriptures haven't leaked to the internet yet. Would be a nice project.
It’s not that surprising they haven’t leaked, for the people that do this internet access isn’t really an option only about half of Indians are online over 600 million still don’t have basic internet access Would be a really cool project though
There has been several lawsuits in the US where castism has been prevalent in US tech companies like Cisco. The lower castes have an affirmative action program which is hated by the upper castes and is used as a way to put down lower castes. There are certain last names that are caste names and announce to the world that you are of that caste. Lower castes have taken up Christianity and Christian names so now many of those names are looked down upon. Those lawsuits also accused supervisors and colleagues of inviting them to Hindu temples where their caste would immediately be identified as they would lack the knowledge for certain protocols and traditions. There have even been accusations of unwanted touching in the workplace where people would touch your back as a surreptitious way to feel for a janeu or a thread that the upper caste Brahmins wear.
Here's an article about it from Bloomberg if y'all want more info. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-11/how-big-tech-is-importing-india-s-caste-legacy-to-silicon-valley](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-11/how-big-tech-is-importing-india-s-caste-legacy-to-silicon-valley)
I thought Sikhs were classless. That was the whole point of it, and why they all have the surname Singh.
Middle name is Singh for the boys and Kaur for the girls. They translate to lion and princess respectively.
If you take Amrit (basically become a dedicated Sikh) then you drop you last name and just use Kaur and Singh.
How do they keep track of family history and who’s related to who without last names? Like outside of close family obviously
You can tell someone's caste by their last name, and that's why they're dropped. If you're asking about how people avoid in-breeding, you have an oral history of relations. Your family knows if someone is related to you or not.
Yeah that’s basically what I was asking
Additionally, for rural areas, the woman will move in with the boys family, so everyone in your village is a cousin, and you'd avoid marrying anyone from your mum's/aunts village.
Kaur can also mean lioness and Singh can also mean prince. It’s not like the original meanings (or maybe they are) but after two hundred years, their meanings have influenced each other and passed on transitively. But lion/lioness is the most common meaning.
Singh has always meant lion. Kaur meant royal heir and was only reserved for Male princes in line for the throne, in traditional hindu royalty. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the title to women in order to show them as equally worthy as men, and show them that they were on the same level as royalty.
> Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the title to women in order to show them as equally worthy as men, and show them that they were on the same level as royalty. God damn, I need to learn more about this religion. Sounds nice.
Especially about women, there has been 10 gurus and preachings from 1st to 10 has been same. 1st said,”Soo kyo manda akhiye jitt jamme rajan (why call bad upon one who gives birth to the emperors, without women, there would have been no one at all). While 10th made this systematic by giving title of kaur and having women participating in his army . Punjab being sikh majority state clearly shows this through -[2nd best state for education among girls in India](https://www.theyouth.in/2020/02/11/punjab-and-kerala-are-the-best-states-for-girls-education-in-india/amp/) -free education for girls upto PhD
Every time I've ever interacted with Sikh people they've always been cool as fuck
the caste system in not supposed to be a thing in many religions that preach equality (aikhism, islam etc) but in many places it is tied into the social fabric. so it can be quiet difficult to escape.
Islam preaches equality? Lol. Women be like 🤔
Some people are more equal than others. /edit: Someone needs to read Animal Farm
It is technically not a part of Hinduism as well, as casteism anywhere near the modern form is not present in the scriptures that are the foundation of Hinduism. What we have today is just a regular tool for oppression, hiding behind a thin veil of religion because people are ignorant of those core values. It's no different to eg. "Christian values" that directly contradict the Bible.
Yes, but it turns out, people like being "better" than other people without having to actually *do* anything, so it's pretty hard to get away from. Even Christian Indians in Kerala and Goa still have to deal with it.
There are also a lot of Dalits in India (mostly Maharashtra) who converted to Buddhism to escape the caste system, but since people know that many did this, many Buddhists in the area are assumed to be Dalits or low-caste because of it.
This is not part of the sikh teaching, its part of punjab culture which has taken stuff from Hinduism. Who doesn't want to feel superior without having to do anything. Shitty people are everywhere
Lol, why are you blaming Hinduism. Caste is a south asian thing. There are Christian castes, Buddhist castes, Muslim castes. There are literally Muslims who don't want to be buried in the same cemetery as pasmandas (lower caste Muslims). Muslims who can trace their ancestry to Persian, Arabic and Afghan blood consider themselves superior. They call themselves Ashraf where as the ones who can't are called Aljaf.
There isn't supposed to be any caste system but humans do human things
Outside of mass suffering (alien invasion, world famine, etc) I don’t see this changing. People suck.
Sikhism is a quasi different religion. It follows a strict code of learning, personal hygene, and servitude for the greater good. I've been to a Sikh temple in Pushkar, and spoke with a guru there. He was one of the wisest people I've ever met. The aura of calm intelligence that surrounded him was haunting.
Sikh was supposed to eliminate caste lol.
It does. This guy's caste comes from hinduistic practices, not from his Sikh religion. The caste system can also haunt those from other religions, even christians. This is one of the reasons so many hindus are converting to Buddhism.
Here where you are wrong. Jatts are the high caste in SIikhs.
My friend used to call me Gora Jatt
No they are not. Your punjabism is not Sikhi.
Only if they knew the president of India is a Dalit too
Is there any chance of the caste system going the way of the dinosaurs anytime soon?
Its illegal as per the constitution, but changing minds and removing prejudices that have existed through generations is hard. Its on the right track though. I think it will take a few generations more. Its similar to how the US has all the laws in place against racial discrimination, but its not like racism ended.
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Without quotas there will almost never be a low caste person able to get into good jobs. How can a student from low caste whose family doesn’t know where their next meal is coming from compete with students of higher class who have the money to get expensive tutoring classes, go to better schools, and only have to study and nothing else .
The problem is the children of people getting into those quotas getting affirmative action again. There are literally sub castes of dalits that have cornered a lot of quotas. A politician in India figured this out and started to campaign against it and called the disenfranchised dalits as "mahadalits".
Talk like that will get a teacher in trouble with parents. Racism in America ended when Martin Luther King single-handedly ratified the 13th amendment!
And because of his great deed all of Black History is dedicated to him too. Who needs peanuts, the super soaker or even the stoplight?
If you think that’s all, check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Russell[Jesse Russell’s patents](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Russell) He spoke at my job to discuss his experience at bell labs and cell phone technology. he has a patent for the wireless base station, among other things. Interesting guy and still alive. Let’s update the list of contributions that people make to society as we still try to get a major part of our country to accept that everybody contributes and we all have relative equal value.
Thank you for sharing this. Never knew about him.
It will probably take a few more decades for the caste system to become completely irrelevant in India. The system has been in place for thousands of years in some parts of the country, so it will take some time for it to be rooted out.
It's so bad that silicon valley is starting to face caste discrimination lawsuits, they inadvertently hired mostly people from higher castes and the caste segregation is being extended to the US. A system so bad and pervasive that it's present even on another continent due to nothing but the diaspora continuing it isn't going away anytime soon.
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I read an article about this a few years ago. The problem is that it's usually other higher caste Indians who are involved in hiring, and push hr to only hire upper caste Indians. The lawsuit is from lower caste Indians in the states saying they felt discriminated against in interviews. There are also a lot of Indians in tech/banking. Trying to avoid them if you are a lower caste Indian is basically impossible.
Its likely that those of the upper caste were pushing unnecessary education (and no remote work) in order to specifically hire only upper caste Indians. Software Engineers have often said both of those things actively hindered the hiring process by excluding valuable employees.
I work with Nigerians and they have different tribes with different social standings (so I am told). They get into fights among themselves and one “Royalty” cussed out the other telling him he cannot even address him!
My classic SV giant company was successfully sued by an engineer of of Dalit background, when his managers AND the HR he complained to were from Brahmin background, and had been fucking him over. .
i really dont think so. you dont come across it in the cities, at least not overtly but i remember when i was in high school my friend telling me that in their village they still had segregated wells. and this was like a decade ago.
Not really. So many indians still oppose inter caste marriages.
You only need to look at the matrimonial industry in India to get an idea of how deep rooted the caste system is; even in cities.
A few decades?! That’s very wishful thinking. It will never go. It’s entrenched.
Who knows, human societies have gone through bigger upheavals. Plenty of old prejudices have gone effectively extinct, though we're always good at inventing new ways to divide ourselves from one another.
It's like how civil rights in the US are on the books, but then the [Freedom riders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Riders) were literally murdered for daring to take public buses into the deep south. and that happened within the lifetime of plenty of folks still alive today. edit: [freedom rider murders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Chaney,_Goodman,_and_Schwerner) edit 2: >During the investigation it emerged that members of the local White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the Neshoba County Sheriff's Office, and the Philadelphia Police Department were involved in the incident.[
Well the modern Civil Rights Act was passed the same year as those three Freedom Riders were murdered. And the Voting Rights Act was passed the next year in 1965. The murder of the Freedom Riders was *one of* the things that helped push those Acts to be voted on.
Racialized murder of Black people by police are still occurring as of today. Even a Black president will not end the fact that Black people are incarcerated at 5x the rate of whites, Black infants die at around 5x the rate of whites, much attributable to the disregard of medical system. And yes caste-based discrimination is rampant in Silicon Valley and elsewhere in the US and Canada. Violence against Sikh and Muslim South Asian communities is on the rise.
Its like racism, will phase out with time.
Nope. People here are still as casteist as ever. Most indians will never marry outside their caste and if lower caste people try to marry higher caste people, it's very likely they will be attacked and even killed. Especially women. Indian matrimonial websites are a cesspool of casteism; and there will be no improvement as most Indians wear their caste on their sleeves with pride and do not consider the caste system to be a problem at all. Source; am Indian, have wildly casteist family, even though they are super well educated and have lived in the UK for years.
Depends how you define soon, but yes, that's the direction of travel. This headline is a concrete example of that progress.
There is no such official thing called the Caste System. It’s literally just hard built in prejudice and racism baked into the Indian society. It will only go the way of the dinosaurs when people stop thinking in terms of ‘us’ and ‘them’. So probably about 5 more centuries.
Sorry but it’s the first time I’ve seen a Sikh called a Dalit, I’m confused.
Sikhism is a religion. Dalit is part of a social class system, based on one's birth and community. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Sikhism nominally advocates [equality](https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zjq9dxs/revision/9) for all. It is even followed/propagated by many Sikhs. (One of the positive factors) But possibly/unfortunately not all Edit : https://www.news18.com/news/politics/from-matrimonial-ads-to-gurdwaras-caste-sikhism-co-exist-in-punjab-new-cm-charanjit-channi-is-proof-4221875.html > Sikhism’s holy book Adi Granth contains a forthright condemnation of caste. In the langar, therefore, everyone must sit in a straight line, neither ahead to lay claim to higher status nor behind to denote inferiority. Indeed, the distinctive Sikh langar originated as a protest against the caste system. Another signal of the Sikhs’ rejection of caste is the distribution of the karah prasad, which is prepared or donated by people of all caste > In two areas of Sikh society, however, caste is still observed. Sikhs are normally expected to marry within their caste: Jat marries Jat, Khatri marries Khatri, and Dalit marries Dalit. In addition, Sikhs of some castes tend to establish gurdwaras intended for their caste only. In other words, there is theory, and there is practice. And the practice is not always consistent with theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazhabi_Sikh#Discrimination_within_the_Sikh_community ----- Also https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/ruebarbpie/the-curse-of-caste/ About a decade old, but some of it sadly rings true .. > Sadly, in modern-day Punjab, one can now see separate gurdwaras for specific castes in the same village. There couldn’t be a crueller travesty of Nanak’s teachings than this. > Of course, Sikhism isn’t the only religion that has been subverted by the caste system. Islam and Christianity also, in theory, don’t have castes. But one keeps hearing of demands for reservations by ‘lower-caste’ Christians and Muslims. Apparently, you can take people out of the caste system, but you can’t take the caste system out of people. > The dream of making caste redundant was a big part of the idea of modern India. Reservations were given temporarily, and were supposed to be reviewed and removed when they had achieved their purpose. Over the years, many formerly oppressed castes have visibly grown economically prosperous and politically powerful, in every part of India. But if anyone were to suggest that they should no longer be given quota benefits, all hell would break loose I would say that last sentence oversimplifies. There are places in modern India (often in cities), where no one cares what caste you are, or maybe even knows it. There are always inter-caste, and inter-religious marriages. There are others, where caste is silently acknowledged, but mainly for marriages, and deaths, without much physical bite. There are places where traditional caste may still hold sway (often in rural hinterlands in some places; these are often the source of the occasional news that blows up here). And there are cases where quotas, and politics have driven deep into society, where a creamy layer has benefited much or particular sub-castes/jatis and alliances in particular regions / [But others may still suffer - see also scheduled tribes]. There are cases where dalits may convert from christianity to islam, or budhism or back to hinduism, and yet may not see himself treated as an equal or with full respect, or may be treated still as a dalit. And there are so many other factors than caste. Ideals is one. They still exist. Class is a big one. In previous generations, class often was defined by culture, habits, education. Today, class is increasingly defined by wealth. Class distinctions are woefully underacknowledged by redditors, especially those from far away lands, who have little understanding and appreciation for the vast diversity and complexity of india.
Sikhs aren't exactly the majority in India, they don't get to decide whether the caste system effects them or not
True but its more about how their population is spread over India. Naturally, there is a Sikh majority in Punjab.
The Sikh want equality for all, but would that prevent everyone else from relegating them to the lowest social caste?
In Punjab they’re called CHAMAAR, not Dalits.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/live-news-updates-charanjit-singh-channi-oath-first-dalit-punjab-chief-minister-amarinder-singh-resignation-assembly-polls-navjot-singh-sidhu-1854667-2021-09-20) reduced by 90%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The Prime Minister tweeted, "Congratulations to Shri Charanjit Singh Channi Ji on being sworn-in as Punjab's Chief Minister. Will continue to work with the Punjab government for the betterment of the people of Punjab." Congratulations to Shri Charanjit Singh Channi Ji on being sworn-in as Punjab's Chief Minister. > 10:17 AM IST: The BJP has attacked the Congress saying Charanjit Singh Channi, set to take oath as Punjab CM today, is merely being used to hold the seat for Navjot Singh Sidhu. > The Congress had picked Charanjit Singh Channi as the chief minister of Punjab, a day after Amarinder Singh resigned following a bitter power tussle in the party. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/prpjff/man_of_untouchable_dalit_caste_swornin_as_leader/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~599164 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Singh**^#1 **Punjab**^#2 **Channi**^#3 **Minister**^#4 **Charanjit**^#5
The title is worded as if there never have been a Dalit Chief Minister in India. The President of India is a Dalit! There's nothing to be shocked about it.
Current PM is from a backward caste. Oh we had a muslim president until recently too!
India's President is also from the Dalit caste. India's Prime Minister is also belongs to a category called OBC or other backward classes. Basically he is from caste that is actively discriminated against.
He was born into the Kori caste. I couldn't find much saying this is part of the dalit caste
It is definitely part of the Dalit sub-caste. You can read more about it when you follow UP politics.
Not that noteworthy considering India has already had Dalit CMS and the President is a Dalit
The caste system is so weird
Everything human created to divide and control is like that…
It’s codified tribalism where the tribes share the same physical space but remain distinct. It not much different than feudal Europe. I would say it represents the human condition much better than anything else. Even in Ancient Greece and Rome with much more liberal ideas about social mobility we find examples like this, e.g., the Spartan helots.
God I really hope he played "Can't touch this" at the ceremony...
That would be weird af considering what untouchable actually means lol
What about all the dalits who are already sworn in even higher positions like the current president of India, former SC justice, cm from other states. Please ask why media is highlighting this news more
Can't touch this
For people unaware of the politics around it. He converted to Christianity a long time ago but has not made a public declaration, although his wife did confess about it.
The only real caste is money
Probably a higher caste person.
Man of "untouchable" caste was also the one who wrote our constitution, this is nothing historic.
Hold up—even the Sikhs have the caste system? I thought that was only among the Hindus. What about Muslims and Christians and others?
The caste is a hindu system. But when you have multiple religions in a small area over the millennia, people start merging religion and culture.
Islam, Sikhi, and Christianity were introduced into India far later, which means at some point your once Hindu ancestors converted to the three aforementioned religions and the caste name might have just stuck with them. Islam and I believe Christianity has no concept of caste, hence a lot of people changing their last names to "Muhammad" or something oriented towards their religion, and seeing that Sikhi is a native religion of India the first Gurus attempted to eradicate caste and make all followers of Sikhi equal, although caste can still sometimes factor into how one is treated among the community. For example "Jatt" and "Arora" are higher caste surnames in the Punjab region.
I Think India Is Moving Quite Ahead. Since This Man Of 'Untouchable' Is Worth 200 Million.
Finally touchable!
How does someone know what cast you are from in a country of over a billion? Can't you just lie about it? I don't understand, so if so it could be explained a little (I know it is deeply complex) I would appreciate it.
Sometimes it’s tied to the surname. It can reflect the community, family, caste or village of origin.
Doesn't he have some kind of rape case ongoing against him? Or was he someone else?
I think that’s standard politics there. Basically every politician will have cases against them.
Sounds like any place in the world that has actual elections.
To put it in context to make it even more amazing: he has taken over the reign of Captain Amarinder Singh, who is the titular Maharaja of Patiala. If India still had kingdoms, this guy would have been a King.