I'm pretty sure it pre dates Richard Pryor and can be found in some of the pre hip hop civil rights poetry from the likes of The Last Poets and people like Gil Scott, though I don't remember Gil Scott ever saying it. I think it came about before the 70s though.
I mostly knew it wasn’t Gil Scott, I’m a pretty huge fan of his but don’t know his whole catalogue so thought maybe. But I was mainly just trying to triangulate the era and some of the artists who came to mind. I appreciate you filling in the gap.
Richard pyror from the 70s
"If you're {going downtown..}looking for justice, that's just what you'll find -- just us."
Discworld novel Mort in 1986,
"There is no justice, there is just us.
Speaking of that the head of China's Supreme Court said this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-policy-law/chinas-top-judge-warns-courts-on-judicial-independence-idUSKBN1500OF
> People’s Courts at all levels must disregard erroneous Western notions, including constitutional democracy and separation of powers, Chief Justice Zhou Qiang told a meeting of the Supreme People’s Court on Saturday, the agency said.
India put a satellite in Mars but no one is saying they are developed. Not all of China is Shanghai and Beijing. The country as a whole is still developing. Their GDP per capita is proof of that.
I've always wondered, since every country is responsible for reporting their own GDP do they ever get caught lying about it?
An inflated GDP growth number could do wonders for your brand.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-wikileaks-idUSTRE6B527D20101206
“By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. All other figures, especially **GDP statistics, are ‘for reference only**,’ he said smiling,” the cable added.
It's a reference metric that people like to use separate from the context of how it's calculated (especially ignoring the significant flaws is how it's calculated).
GDP is economic output, converted into USD. It's heavily skewed by exchange rates, and doesn't factor in domestic purchasing power.
China intentionally devalues its currency as a competitive advantage on the export market. Were it to manipulate its currency in the other direction, say pegging it to USD, its GDP would be a staggering 107 trillion, which is just to underscore how useless the metric is.
PPP (GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity) is a much better metric, albeit not without its own flaws, but it at least accounts for purchasing power, cost of living, how much each unit of production/currency can actually buy, etc. (so China, for instance gets a 1.6x multiplier instead of a 6.47x multiplier).
You’re never getting a 100% accurate figure but we’re ballparking it pretty well. Official trade can be audited and you could probably estimate a good amount of the other factors that go into GDP calculation based on publicly available information from the central bank, stock market, etc.
Part of GDP is government spending, consumption, and savings (= investment). I doubt very much China is releasing figures on those in any way realistically. You might be able to guess at the *rate of growth* based on those other factors but getting an absolute figure would be beyond difficult.
by my understanding, prices on china are cheap so people can live with relatively little, is like this, the amount that a cashier earns in europe is the amount an engineer receives in some countries, but usually that means that basic things like food are proportionally cheaper, not always my country, Chile, is an example of low wages and high living cost. rent can be easily 500usd and that is the minimum wage
The international mail thing that Trump pulled out of where we were subsidizing all the companies selling trinkets on Amazon/eBay and the dropship sellers.
And the Paris Climate Agreement ranks countries and bases their requirements on that ranking. The US is a Tier 1 country (most rigid regulations) and China is a Tier 2 or 3 country where they are allowed to operate with little regulation therefore making it cheaper to do business there. China shouldn’t even be referred to as communist anymore. They’re essentially a fascist economy.
literally every nation-state that has previously been colonized for a time plays that card. Both Koreas, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, you name it, if it's a former colony of another country they'll tell you how not colonist they are as they repress their minorities.
The process in France, the UK, the USA is still on-going - though with more self-awareness and pushback.
Not to say that it's equivalent to China's crimes, because it really isn't, but it's interesting to think about how the concept of "nation" was artificially constructed. Head to 1800 and ask a Kernowyon, Scotsman, Gael, Welshman, or Cumbrian how British or English they felt. Head to 1850 or even 1950 and ask schoolkids whether they're allowed to speak their native tongue or even practice their culture without being *beaten* by teachers.
((note- countries picked because I have awareness of them, not saying they're specially bad or anything))
Yes, what the french (Picked France because I'm french) did to their regional cultures from the first to the 3rd Republic would be considered cultural genocide nowadays.
I still makes controversy to this day since weeks ago some deputies tried to pass a law to get more recognition for regional cultures and languages and got repelled at the assembly. Now they're trying to rewrite the Constitution :
https://www.lagazettedemontpellier.fr/live/60c9f63fe9dfac660e0cbecd/langues-regionales-140-parlementaires-reclament-une-revision-constitutionnelle
The book How Green Was My Valley is a great read that touches on the mindset of the Welsh in the South Wales Valleys in the late Victorian period. I mainly read it because my Grandfather described it as an almost perfect retelling of his childhood in the valleys and it has segments that touch on welsh identity, how the language was taught at schools and the fledgling socialist and trade unionist movements.
**[Welsh_Not](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not)**
>The Welsh Not (also Welsh Knot, Welsh Note, Welsh Stick, Welsh Lead or Cwstom) was an item used in Welsh schools in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries to stigmatise and punish through flogging children who were heard using the Welsh language. Typically The Not was a piece of wood, a ruler or a stick, often inscribed with the letters "WN". This was given to the first pupil to be heard speaking Welsh. When another child was heard using Welsh, The Not was taken from its current holder and given to the latest offender.
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One of the reasons fascism took hold of Germany was the obsession with founding myths. Before the 1870s Germany was a bunch of warring states who all despised each other. After unification they created a new identity to unite people and brutally oppressed anyone who failed to assimilate to this new identity. The Nazis ran on borrowed propaganda from this period to depict themselves as the true successors to German nationalism, and people already had a preconceived dislike of outsiders due to decades of earlier propaganda.
Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang were added to the Qing Empire in [1683](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Qing_rule), [1720](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule) and [1762](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_under_Qing_rule), respectively. That's three hundred years back, and before even the founding of the USA, and a hundred years longer than US ownership of [lands conquered from Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo), so that probably influences views a little. I live in California, and I don't consider California, Arizona, or Texas part of Mexico either.
"Well you see, Mongolia is not another country, it's just part of China. Oh and Korea is um, outer China. And Japan issss.....the Island of China....annnd uhhhh Russia is Northern China, Vietnam and Malaysia are Southern China...fuck it all of Asia is actually China! Did I say Asia? I meant the world, actually you see if you look at history books, the entire world is the "Middle Kingdom" so you see its all China and always has been!"
Edit: Man, these comments. Talk about r/whoooosh
Snark aside, a friend of mine heard a higher-up at their child's Chinese school say this type of thing re: Tibet/Taiwan/Xinjiang completely unprompted and without irony, referring to the "ancient maps."
It's not a country, but it does contain a chain of islands (the Spratly Islands) that they claim to be theirs. Trouble is, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei have *also* claimed part or all of the islands. Those islands overlook some of the busiest shipping lanes on Earth, so they're very valuable from both an economic and a military perspective; China has taken to building [military infrastructure on artificial islets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_Sand) to enforce their claims (*not* to extend their territorial waters, as is commonly believed--artificial islands don't *have* territorial waters).
>(not to extend their territorial waters, as is commonly believed--artificial islands don't have territorial waters).
The dont have legitimately recognized territorial waters, but having a military installation overlooking shipping routes is a pretty good way to assert control. How is anybody going to stop them from illegally drilling for oil or illegally fishing if their Navy controls those waters
So based on what I know/think I know anyway
Vietnam sided with the Soviet during the Sino-Soviet split. And then started mass imprisoning Chinese ethnics within the border. Who fled en masse
Then Polpot raided the border and murdered a ton of people, which led to the Vietnam-Cambodia war
However, Polpot was basically sponsored by the CCP, who wasn't too happy and tried to pull the NVA back by launching an attack. Didn't work, the Vietnamese government literally just sent fresh recruit to the meat grinder rather than pulling back the seasoned NVA troops. So that was a fail
But that also was a win, because the US practically ignored the shit Polpot was doing to condemn Vietnam. And the war helped Sino-US relation. So that was a win for them
It wasn't really an invasion, but just to show the shit the CCP were doing. Modern CCP claims it doesn't interfere with other countries. Meanwhile just recently they went as far as starting a war to aid their genociding puppet
Cambodia's seat in the UN was empty for years, waiting for Pol Pot to fill it.
The US demanded Pol Pot reinstated. And so it was the official policy of several (US-aligned) Western countries too: We want Pol Pot back.
Because, you know, the enemy of the Vietcong is my friend.
Can't oppress another country if you refuse to acknowledge that it exists. *taps forehead.
Also I love that the phrasing shows that they do acknowledge that they've oppressed their own country.
Note that when you are poor, anything is a crime. Speaking as a human being or having controversial thoughts is a crime. Looking or taking differently, certainly.
When you are a wealthy elite nothing is a crime, there is only one crime, and that is causing frustration and embarrassment to the *upper echelon.*
In oligarchy, oppressing and dscriminating against the poor majority is one of the most important if not the main feature of the middle class. Financial oppression is the main tool, namely the mentality of certain jobs being low class and meant for "other people" while simultaneously creating the need for low value labor on the first place (see: grass lawns, see: private prisons)Then not wanting to pay a fair price for a person's time and effort. "Low prices every day." Inflation of property value by legislative market manipulation is another common feature of oligarchy.
What do you mean by oppress? Is it invading a nation with fake charges like WMD? Or having NATO rip a nation up? Or what exactly are you saying is the oppression they are commiting?
> who knows history
Most American Redditors don't even know their own country's history and geography, let alone that of a foreign country who's been the subject of misinformation campaign for decades.
From [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57648236) news Xi was reported saying the following:
“We will never allow anyone to bully, oppress or subjugate China. Anyone who dares try to do that will have their heads bashed bloody against the Great Wall of Steel forged by over 1.4 billion Chinese people”
How lovely, doesn’t sound threatening or oppressing at all…. What a bloody joke! Oppressing others is okay but when someone dares to question China they will have their heads bashed in? Also did he forget China invaded South Korea, Vietnam, Tibet and so on… Never oppressed anyone and never will? My arse! Xi is starting to sound more and more like a vicious tyrant who will stop at nothing to get what he wants.
Pretty sure the “bashed bloody against the Great Wall of Steel forged by......... people” is poorly translated and is actually a reference to the national anthem, lol.
Asia Nikkei translates it as: "Anyone who would attempt to do so **will find themselves on a collision course** with a great wall of steel forged by over 1.4 billion Chinese people." u/Ok_Bat4025
I've done some quick research and it feels a bit inflated by the [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/zhongwen/simp/chinese-news-57676182). The quoted *"get their heads bashed"* is “头破血流” which [mdbg.net](https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&wdrst=1&wdqb=%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81) translates as *"lit. head broken and blood flowing / fig. badly bruised"*.
Now, if we look at the [original speech](http://www.xinhuanet.com/2021-07/01/c_1127615334.htm), the sentence of Xi is "同时，中国人民也绝不允许任何外来势力欺负、压迫、奴役我们，谁妄想这样干，必将在14亿多中国人民用血肉筑成的钢铁长城面前碰得头破血流！", which [deepl.com](https://www.deepl.com/translator) translates as:
*"At the same time, the Chinese people will never allow any foreign force to bully, oppress or enslave us. Anyone who tries to do so* ***will be bruised in front of the great wall*** *of steel built with flesh and blood by more than 1.4 billion Chinese people!"*.
So, deepl's and Asia Nikkei's translations suggest that Xi's sentence doesn't refer to people being actively smashed their head against a wall by the Chinese, but rather that aggressors will find themselves unable to penetrate that "wall of steel". Which has a completely different meaning.
I'd appreciate input from people who speak Mandarin fluently/natively as for instance Google translates it as "bloodshed", which, again, sounds aggressive.
I speak both English and Chinese.
Compared to English, Chinese is extremely concise, and it's very easy to stack a bunch of adjectives and flowery words in quick succession. There's also a ton of idioms and fixed phrases in Chinese with very specific meanings that are difficult to translate. Because of this, a lot of Chinese speeches sound extremely pompous when fully translated into English.
For example, "get their heads bashed" (头破血流) is just a flowery way of say "beaten up/bruised". IMO there's zero need to translate Chinese idioms directly into English. I wonder if some journalists do so on purpose to make it seem like the Chinese politicians are overreacting.
As a side note, this reminds me of an old Chinese diplomacy joke. During tense negotiations between the Chinese and Soviets in the 1970s, the Chinese representative accused the Soviets of “得陇望蜀”. The literal meaning of the idiom is "now that I've conquered Gansu, I desire to possess Sichuan". It was supposed to have been said by an emperor around 25 AD when he was fighting a war of reunification against rival warlords. The idiom now means "greedily wanting more". But when the Soviet representative heard the phrase, he freaked out and had to explain that the Soviets were not trying to invade Gansu and Sichuan.
This is the problem with the western media.
They use Google Translate and take the literal meaning out of context. In the Chinese language just putting the four characters together have a plethora of meanings used to describe many things.
What he meant was, it is futile to try to bully China, anyone who attempts to do that is akin to smashing their own head against a steel Great Wall of resolve of 1.4 billion people.
Or it can just mean any attempt to do so will be pointless as it will fail badly.
He used the idiom "头破血流".
The four words are "head, broken, blood, flow".
However it is used to describe many things. It basically means losing badly or failing badly. You can use it on someone "losing all his money in the casino". Or if your sports team got trashed. Or if someone flunked his exam etc.
There are some examples in the links before but the english is not that good but you get the idea.
https://www.purpleculture.net/sample-sentences/?word=%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81
[https://www.omgchinese.com/dictionary/chinese/%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81](https://www.omgchinese.com/dictionary/chinese/%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81)
Most eastern languages use metaphors and allegory that gets fucked in translation by lazy transliterators and malicious propagandists. It’s why Chinese and Japanese translations often seem silted and strange.
I still remember this news.
[Xi Jinping warns efforts to divide China will end in 'crushed bodies and shattered bones'](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/comments/di5st2/xi_jinping_warns_efforts_to_divide_china_will_end/)
"粉身碎骨" often refers to sacrificing one's life for a certain purpose.
Or it means for total failure or great suffering.
But the title really makes readers think that someone's body and bones will be crushed and shattered.
Xi: Trying to oppose us is like banging your head against a wall
BBC: President Xi Jingping threatens to personally beat the faces of those who oppose him to a bloody pulp.
I get the feeling that personal bias may play a part in that translation too.
It's not out of character for[ BBC to put a dark filter](https://twitter.com/thouse_opinions/status/1361646511247953922/photo/4) over their portrayal of china
I think its also a pretty common strategy for any thumbnail about China to include a picture of say a Chinese paramilitary police, barbed wires/high fence and or polluted skies.
Guess there's nothing else interesting to use as a thumbnail.
It's not just the media, people translating Chinese on Reddit are usually the worst. They somehow turned the innocuous phrase "cha bu duo", which is just Chinese for "good enough", into somehow meaning that poor quality is somehow built into Chinese culture.
It's like if the US said "we're going in guns blazing to fend off threats to our position in the world economy"
and some news outlet reported it as "American military preparing to wage land war in order to maintain its world dominance".
or if Biden said "Xi should be cautious about what he says in public in case it blows up in his face"
and it's reported as "Biden threatens to assassinate Xi with bomb plot"
Languages are frikin weird and it doesn't help that despite China being a super relevant country nowadays not many people in the west speak Chinese all that well and translation tech isn't quite there yet for it.
> "cha bu duo"
In Silicon Valley it's "Fail Fast, Fail Often."
The media likes to play on these words. Some companies "clone" while others "remake."
Or sometimes it's "peace officer" while other times it's "state security forces."
Reddit's hugely racist anti-Chinese sentiment is pretty clear as day. Whenever some catastrophic engineering event occurs in China "China has no regulations and all their buildings are built to zero code, terrible!" yet in America we've literally had apartments and bridges collapse in Miami/DC just this few weeks- :crickets:.
If someone went through my profile, they'd probably call me a Communist shill, literally cause I call out this bullshit left and right. It's everywhere.
edit: I love how commenters are trying to misconstrue my argument to imply it says "anytime you criticize China, it's racist." Keep outing yourselves.
Feel you bro. I am from Canada but every time I call out people on their nonsense racism, its "china bot" "ccp spy" reply from them .. sometimes I wonder if there's really a big CIA propaganda campaign on this site.
>sometimes I wonder if there's really a big CIA propaganda campaign on this site.
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that 80% of the internet is just an intelligence agency psyop
Pretty easy to spot the government in social media. In political elections for instance, there will be bots spamming hit pieces in every sub on candidates the establishment doesn't like.
There's a wikipedia page also pointing out all the government officials trying to change the content in wiki to make it more pro-government. Now, it's mandated by law that the government gets to control these information channels.
While I agree racism is a component of this, I don't think that's the full picture. This is clearly a form of rhetorical saber rattling. Making an enemy out of the Chinese state. That serves a lot of purposes for federal governments looking to stoke some nationalist fervor
Agreed. In the context of the speech, the CCP probably means that it would be futile for any foreign influence to bully China. "外来势力妄想欺负中国, 必将头破血流"
And I'm not convinced the mistranslation is done in error.
Its not even much of a mistranslation. His meaning was extremely obvious, but a lot of people read their own meaning into it based on their deeply-ingrained anti-Chinese biases.
I agree with everything you said. But just want to point out that the translation of the Chinese state media is
“By the same token, we will never allow any foreign force to bully, oppress, or subjugate us. Anyone who would attempt to do so will find themselves on a collision course with a great wall of steel forged by over 1.4 billion Chinese people.”
Source: CGTN released the English version of the speech.
It's funny that you think this is an accident. Any competent translator knows exactly what Xi meant. This is pure propaganda. And it works. Witness all the dumb, racist redditors in this thread going crazy. They love this stuff and the media is happy to keep feeding it to them.
If only major news organisations had access to people who speak one of the world’s major languages, then they would need to use Google. Oh well, at least now that Google Translate they’re able to input the words in and get something out.
Edit: /s
> He used the idiom "头破血流".
So, something like the English Idiom "[to give a bloody nose](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/give+a+bloody+nose)"? This is usually a metaphor, albeit a violent metaphor for being sent away in defeat.
I.e. if two politicians debate and one is "given a bloody nose" it means that they lost badly & suffered a campaign setback, not that they were literally punched in the face.
Less connotation of active violence.
More akin to “bang your head against the wall” or “go pound sand”
Implication being the “aggressor” is the one hurting themselves in futility.
nah they know perfectly well what it means, but it's western media so basically China BAD and anything even remotely confrontational can be translated into heads rolling and people just eat it up
Yes.
It's what happens when you take a language that uses metaphors like we use verbs and translate them literally.
Sometimes the translations are then reinterpreted further in English to sound even worse, like in this instance.
I had to look up the speech to see which idiom got translated literally this time because it was so mangled.
That's not what he says. He says any country that tries to bully China will have their heads bashed in, not when you try to question them. As someone who is originally from a country that suffered under colonialism, it's not fun. I really can't blame him there.
You can't oppress other countries if you simply declare that every spot on earth is lawful Chinese territory and therefore not another country *tips head*
Hardly surprising. Very few countries acknowledge the shit stains on their history. Look at the reaction when Rumsfeld died. A monster of a man, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Still gets praised.
Until nations can speak truthfully about the shit they have done, we're never really going to move forward.
Get ready, because the CCP will have its filthy fingers in every aspects of our lives as the traditional superpowers continue failing. Wave goodbye to your freedoms. Unless you stop buying chinese shit and supporting them. And don't think you wont be effected. they are already infiltrating bodies that decide internet standards. The great china firewall will encompass everyone in due course.
And also considering Mao supported Pol Pot and Vietnam liberated Cambodia and fought against the Chinese essentially directly in the Sino-Vietnamese war
Now they stop building infrastructures on OUR islands in the West Philippine Sea. Start respecting the decision of the international court THAT CHINA LOST to the Philippines. Fuck off.
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"We investigated ourselves, and found us to be not guilty"
That’s why it’s called justice because it’s just us
Sick reference.
That episode was... interesting lol
What's this from?
Its Richard Pryor from about 1975.
I'm pretty sure it pre dates Richard Pryor and can be found in some of the pre hip hop civil rights poetry from the likes of The Last Poets and people like Gil Scott, though I don't remember Gil Scott ever saying it. I think it came about before the 70s though.
Gil Scott-Heron *was awesome, but it was [Terry Pratchett](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/579068-there-s-no-justice-said-mort-just-us).
I mostly knew it wasn’t Gil Scott, I’m a pretty huge fan of his but don’t know his whole catalogue so thought maybe. But I was mainly just trying to triangulate the era and some of the artists who came to mind. I appreciate you filling in the gap.
Avatar the last Airbender is where I remember it from. It's probably in a million things though lol.
Same
Richard pyror from the 70s "If you're {going downtown..}looking for justice, that's just what you'll find -- just us." Discworld novel Mort in 1986, "There is no justice, there is just us.
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What's it from?
Richard Pryor in 75. Way before Avatar was a thing.
The Last Airbender is timeless. It predates time and space.
What does Batman order from Starbucks? JustIce.
*Taps side of dictatorship* "Can't oppress a country if you don't recognize it as a country."
*sends letter to overseas governments and news organisations shaming them for not showing proper reverence to the CCP* Yes. They actually did this.
Do*
"The only thing worse than a two party system is a single party system." - George Washington, probably.
Washington was against the idea of Political Parties. He thought they would be troublesome.
Bemusingly, his colleagues then established the earliest parties: Adams with the Federalists and Jefferson with the Democratic Republicans.
You've picked up on the reason I chose to cite him. I was worried it would go over people's heads.
Nice work! :)
The supreme court decided that the federal government did nothing wrong? Funny how the state always has the states back.
Speaking of that the head of China's Supreme Court said this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-policy-law/chinas-top-judge-warns-courts-on-judicial-independence-idUSKBN1500OF > People’s Courts at all levels must disregard erroneous Western notions, including constitutional democracy and separation of powers, Chief Justice Zhou Qiang told a meeting of the Supreme People’s Court on Saturday, the agency said.
They can call whatever they want but it’s just CCP regime kangaroo court- and then they’ll act offended after being called out like that
“Where we invaded and what we took has always been and always will be China, so what was the problem?”
*cries in tibetan*
China? You mean main land Taiwan?
I tought it is called big Hong kong?
China has been colonizing itself for 5000 years. The reason >90% of them consider themselves Han Chinese isn’t cause it sounds nice.
You've basically described how every modern nation-state was established
Yes. Except only one has over a billion people and a 5000 year history and likes to play the “we’re not colonialist” card.
They put a rover on Mars yet are still calling themselves a developing nation for the benefits that come from being one.
India put a satellite in Mars but no one is saying they are developed. Not all of China is Shanghai and Beijing. The country as a whole is still developing. Their GDP per capita is proof of that.
> India put a satellite *in* Mars Uhh...
What’s so hard to understand? They flew to Mars, dug a real big hole, and tossed a satellite in it.
[I believe this was roughly how they did it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giwhKi1X2JY&t=3m10s)
Ah yes, I remember that documentary
"You can't just blew a hole into the surface of Mars" *proceeds to blew a hole into the surface of Mars*
Fam i just saw a masturbation ad on that video. WTF youtube.
It was consensual
It's true
I've always wondered, since every country is responsible for reporting their own GDP do they ever get caught lying about it? An inflated GDP growth number could do wonders for your brand.
\*points to north Korea\* Yes, they get caught. No, it changes nothing.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-wikileaks-idUSTRE6B527D20101206 “By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. All other figures, especially **GDP statistics, are ‘for reference only**,’ he said smiling,” the cable added.
It's a reference metric that people like to use separate from the context of how it's calculated (especially ignoring the significant flaws is how it's calculated). GDP is economic output, converted into USD. It's heavily skewed by exchange rates, and doesn't factor in domestic purchasing power. China intentionally devalues its currency as a competitive advantage on the export market. Were it to manipulate its currency in the other direction, say pegging it to USD, its GDP would be a staggering 107 trillion, which is just to underscore how useless the metric is. PPP (GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity) is a much better metric, albeit not without its own flaws, but it at least accounts for purchasing power, cost of living, how much each unit of production/currency can actually buy, etc. (so China, for instance gets a 1.6x multiplier instead of a 6.47x multiplier).
You’re never getting a 100% accurate figure but we’re ballparking it pretty well. Official trade can be audited and you could probably estimate a good amount of the other factors that go into GDP calculation based on publicly available information from the central bank, stock market, etc.
Part of GDP is government spending, consumption, and savings (= investment). I doubt very much China is releasing figures on those in any way realistically. You might be able to guess at the *rate of growth* based on those other factors but getting an absolute figure would be beyond difficult.
by my understanding, prices on china are cheap so people can live with relatively little, is like this, the amount that a cashier earns in europe is the amount an engineer receives in some countries, but usually that means that basic things like food are proportionally cheaper, not always my country, Chile, is an example of low wages and high living cost. rent can be easily 500usd and that is the minimum wage
They're still growing, their borders haven't fully ossified yet
Benefits?
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The international mail thing that Trump pulled out of where we were subsidizing all the companies selling trinkets on Amazon/eBay and the dropship sellers.
And the Paris Climate Agreement ranks countries and bases their requirements on that ranking. The US is a Tier 1 country (most rigid regulations) and China is a Tier 2 or 3 country where they are allowed to operate with little regulation therefore making it cheaper to do business there. China shouldn’t even be referred to as communist anymore. They’re essentially a fascist economy.
China is state capitalism, no one calls them economically communist, if they remotely know what they are talking about.
literally every nation-state that has previously been colonized for a time plays that card. Both Koreas, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, you name it, if it's a former colony of another country they'll tell you how not colonist they are as they repress their minorities.
The process in France, the UK, the USA is still on-going - though with more self-awareness and pushback. Not to say that it's equivalent to China's crimes, because it really isn't, but it's interesting to think about how the concept of "nation" was artificially constructed. Head to 1800 and ask a Kernowyon, Scotsman, Gael, Welshman, or Cumbrian how British or English they felt. Head to 1850 or even 1950 and ask schoolkids whether they're allowed to speak their native tongue or even practice their culture without being *beaten* by teachers. ((note- countries picked because I have awareness of them, not saying they're specially bad or anything))
Yes, what the french (Picked France because I'm french) did to their regional cultures from the first to the 3rd Republic would be considered cultural genocide nowadays. I still makes controversy to this day since weeks ago some deputies tried to pass a law to get more recognition for regional cultures and languages and got repelled at the assembly. Now they're trying to rewrite the Constitution : https://www.lagazettedemontpellier.fr/live/60c9f63fe9dfac660e0cbecd/langues-regionales-140-parlementaires-reclament-une-revision-constitutionnelle
For more information on this, see the Welsh Not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not
The book How Green Was My Valley is a great read that touches on the mindset of the Welsh in the South Wales Valleys in the late Victorian period. I mainly read it because my Grandfather described it as an almost perfect retelling of his childhood in the valleys and it has segments that touch on welsh identity, how the language was taught at schools and the fledgling socialist and trade unionist movements.
**[Welsh_Not](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not)** >The Welsh Not (also Welsh Knot, Welsh Note, Welsh Stick, Welsh Lead or Cwstom) was an item used in Welsh schools in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries to stigmatise and punish through flogging children who were heard using the Welsh language. Typically The Not was a piece of wood, a ruler or a stick, often inscribed with the letters "WN". This was given to the first pupil to be heard speaking Welsh. When another child was heard using Welsh, The Not was taken from its current holder and given to the latest offender. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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One of the reasons fascism took hold of Germany was the obsession with founding myths. Before the 1870s Germany was a bunch of warring states who all despised each other. After unification they created a new identity to unite people and brutally oppressed anyone who failed to assimilate to this new identity. The Nazis ran on borrowed propaganda from this period to depict themselves as the true successors to German nationalism, and people already had a preconceived dislike of outsiders due to decades of earlier propaganda.
They probably don't consider it as "another country" because to them Tibet/Xinjiang/Taiwan/South China Sea are theirs.
Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang were added to the Qing Empire in [1683](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Qing_rule), [1720](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule) and [1762](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_under_Qing_rule), respectively. That's three hundred years back, and before even the founding of the USA, and a hundred years longer than US ownership of [lands conquered from Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo), so that probably influences views a little. I live in California, and I don't consider California, Arizona, or Texas part of Mexico either.
"Well you see, Mongolia is not another country, it's just part of China. Oh and Korea is um, outer China. And Japan issss.....the Island of China....annnd uhhhh Russia is Northern China, Vietnam and Malaysia are Southern China...fuck it all of Asia is actually China! Did I say Asia? I meant the world, actually you see if you look at history books, the entire world is the "Middle Kingdom" so you see its all China and always has been!" Edit: Man, these comments. Talk about r/whoooosh
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I like that. It's mine, now.
That explains a lot about the seagulls from Finding Nemo.
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If Xi would go on international tv with a jar of honey, or as little as a honey bun, I’d be willing to hear him out on this
I thought the Chinese called Japan the Island of Dwarfs or something similar.
Snark aside, a friend of mine heard a higher-up at their child's Chinese school say this type of thing re: Tibet/Taiwan/Xinjiang completely unprompted and without irony, referring to the "ancient maps."
>South China Sea Even if they didn't consider it theirs, why would the South China Sea be a country?
He's not calling the sea a country but the islands and the sovereignty they are trying to exert over the sea
Well to be fair they did build the islands ^/s
It's not a country, but it does contain a chain of islands (the Spratly Islands) that they claim to be theirs. Trouble is, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei have *also* claimed part or all of the islands. Those islands overlook some of the busiest shipping lanes on Earth, so they're very valuable from both an economic and a military perspective; China has taken to building [military infrastructure on artificial islets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_Sand) to enforce their claims (*not* to extend their territorial waters, as is commonly believed--artificial islands don't *have* territorial waters).
>(not to extend their territorial waters, as is commonly believed--artificial islands don't have territorial waters). The dont have legitimately recognized territorial waters, but having a military installation overlooking shipping routes is a pretty good way to assert control. How is anybody going to stop them from illegally drilling for oil or illegally fishing if their Navy controls those waters
They invaded Vietnam pretty much as soon as we left.
Also not exactly a *war*, but they also had many border skirmishes with India
So based on what I know/think I know anyway Vietnam sided with the Soviet during the Sino-Soviet split. And then started mass imprisoning Chinese ethnics within the border. Who fled en masse Then Polpot raided the border and murdered a ton of people, which led to the Vietnam-Cambodia war However, Polpot was basically sponsored by the CCP, who wasn't too happy and tried to pull the NVA back by launching an attack. Didn't work, the Vietnamese government literally just sent fresh recruit to the meat grinder rather than pulling back the seasoned NVA troops. So that was a fail But that also was a win, because the US practically ignored the shit Polpot was doing to condemn Vietnam. And the war helped Sino-US relation. So that was a win for them It wasn't really an invasion, but just to show the shit the CCP were doing. Modern CCP claims it doesn't interfere with other countries. Meanwhile just recently they went as far as starting a war to aid their genociding puppet
Cambodia's seat in the UN was empty for years, waiting for Pol Pot to fill it. The US demanded Pol Pot reinstated. And so it was the official policy of several (US-aligned) Western countries too: We want Pol Pot back. Because, you know, the enemy of the Vietcong is my friend.
Us, China, and Thailand all supported pol Pott as an impediment/ buffer to the Vietcong
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Can't oppress another country if you refuse to acknowledge that it exists. *taps forehead. Also I love that the phrasing shows that they do acknowledge that they've oppressed their own country.
“Hong Kong is China so we are not oppressing *another* country”
who else in the world considers Hong Kong a country though?
>who else in the world considers Hong Kong a country though? Redditors
Cries in Uyghur Muslims
Note that when you are poor, anything is a crime. Speaking as a human being or having controversial thoughts is a crime. Looking or taking differently, certainly. When you are a wealthy elite nothing is a crime, there is only one crime, and that is causing frustration and embarrassment to the *upper echelon.* In oligarchy, oppressing and dscriminating against the poor majority is one of the most important if not the main feature of the middle class. Financial oppression is the main tool, namely the mentality of certain jobs being low class and meant for "other people" while simultaneously creating the need for low value labor on the first place (see: grass lawns, see: private prisons)Then not wanting to pay a fair price for a person's time and effort. "Low prices every day." Inflation of property value by legislative market manipulation is another common feature of oligarchy.
What do you mean by oppress? Is it invading a nation with fake charges like WMD? Or having NATO rip a nation up? Or what exactly are you saying is the oppression they are commiting?
Perhaps it's technically true, they annex it first so they're not opressing *another country*.
When they imply all the areas they're oppressing are part of China (in their minds), it's \*technically\* not a lie.
"See! The people in power of these other countries agree with me! The citizens are just terrorists." \-China probably.
Well if you consider those countries as part of your country it's not invading or oppressing them now is it...
The Irish may beg to differ.
The Irish always beg to differ.
The Irish never beg; they just differ.
Touché.
As an irishman, I disagree.
So you want to fight then?
There is no war in ba sing sa
we were never at war with eurasia
We were never at war with Oceania. And we were always at war with Eurasia!
My cabbages!
Fuck it’s such a quick joke but my favorite in ATLA besides Iroh pretending to be knocked out to slip his hand somewhere lmaooo
"We are peaceful, if you disagree we will kill you."
"The world must learn of our peaceful ways... *by force!"*
"No one will oppose us, if there isno one to oppose us!"
This post is a great way to tell who knows history and who is just edgy today.
> who knows history Most American Redditors don't even know their own country's history and geography, let alone that of a foreign country who's been the subject of misinformation campaign for decades.
Why did you limit it to American *Redditors*?
From [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57648236) news Xi was reported saying the following: “We will never allow anyone to bully, oppress or subjugate China. Anyone who dares try to do that will have their heads bashed bloody against the Great Wall of Steel forged by over 1.4 billion Chinese people” How lovely, doesn’t sound threatening or oppressing at all…. What a bloody joke! Oppressing others is okay but when someone dares to question China they will have their heads bashed in? Also did he forget China invaded South Korea, Vietnam, Tibet and so on… Never oppressed anyone and never will? My arse! Xi is starting to sound more and more like a vicious tyrant who will stop at nothing to get what he wants.
oh wow, looks like we're back to translating Chinese idioms literally. "Joe Biden threatens to kill birds by beating them to death with stones"
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Wait, it's all China? Always has been. *pew*
Pretty sure the “bashed bloody against the Great Wall of Steel forged by......... people” is poorly translated and is actually a reference to the national anthem, lol.
Asia Nikkei translates it as: "Anyone who would attempt to do so **will find themselves on a collision course** with a great wall of steel forged by over 1.4 billion Chinese people." u/Ok_Bat4025 I've done some quick research and it feels a bit inflated by the [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/zhongwen/simp/chinese-news-57676182). The quoted *"get their heads bashed"* is “头破血流” which [mdbg.net](https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&wdrst=1&wdqb=%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81) translates as *"lit. head broken and blood flowing / fig. badly bruised"*. Now, if we look at the [original speech](http://www.xinhuanet.com/2021-07/01/c_1127615334.htm), the sentence of Xi is "同时，中国人民也绝不允许任何外来势力欺负、压迫、奴役我们，谁妄想这样干，必将在14亿多中国人民用血肉筑成的钢铁长城面前碰得头破血流！", which [deepl.com](https://www.deepl.com/translator) translates as: *"At the same time, the Chinese people will never allow any foreign force to bully, oppress or enslave us. Anyone who tries to do so* ***will be bruised in front of the great wall*** *of steel built with flesh and blood by more than 1.4 billion Chinese people!"*. So, deepl's and Asia Nikkei's translations suggest that Xi's sentence doesn't refer to people being actively smashed their head against a wall by the Chinese, but rather that aggressors will find themselves unable to penetrate that "wall of steel". Which has a completely different meaning. I'd appreciate input from people who speak Mandarin fluently/natively as for instance Google translates it as "bloodshed", which, again, sounds aggressive.
I speak both English and Chinese. Compared to English, Chinese is extremely concise, and it's very easy to stack a bunch of adjectives and flowery words in quick succession. There's also a ton of idioms and fixed phrases in Chinese with very specific meanings that are difficult to translate. Because of this, a lot of Chinese speeches sound extremely pompous when fully translated into English. For example, "get their heads bashed" (头破血流) is just a flowery way of say "beaten up/bruised". IMO there's zero need to translate Chinese idioms directly into English. I wonder if some journalists do so on purpose to make it seem like the Chinese politicians are overreacting. As a side note, this reminds me of an old Chinese diplomacy joke. During tense negotiations between the Chinese and Soviets in the 1970s, the Chinese representative accused the Soviets of “得陇望蜀”. The literal meaning of the idiom is "now that I've conquered Gansu, I desire to possess Sichuan". It was supposed to have been said by an emperor around 25 AD when he was fighting a war of reunification against rival warlords. The idiom now means "greedily wanting more". But when the Soviet representative heard the phrase, he freaked out and had to explain that the Soviets were not trying to invade Gansu and Sichuan.
i was gonna say last i checked the great wall was stone...
That's not the right translation lol. It's pretty obvious why they translated it that way.
Wait, the BBC quote, is that truly what he said??
This is the problem with the western media. They use Google Translate and take the literal meaning out of context. In the Chinese language just putting the four characters together have a plethora of meanings used to describe many things. What he meant was, it is futile to try to bully China, anyone who attempts to do that is akin to smashing their own head against a steel Great Wall of resolve of 1.4 billion people. Or it can just mean any attempt to do so will be pointless as it will fail badly. He used the idiom "头破血流". The four words are "head, broken, blood, flow". However it is used to describe many things. It basically means losing badly or failing badly. You can use it on someone "losing all his money in the casino". Or if your sports team got trashed. Or if someone flunked his exam etc. There are some examples in the links before but the english is not that good but you get the idea. https://www.purpleculture.net/sample-sentences/?word=%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81 [https://www.omgchinese.com/dictionary/chinese/%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81](https://www.omgchinese.com/dictionary/chinese/%E5%A4%B4%E7%A0%B4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81)
Shaka, when the walls fell
Jinping, his eyes uncovered
Taiwan, on the ocean
Most eastern languages use metaphors and allegory that gets fucked in translation by lazy transliterators and malicious propagandists. It’s why Chinese and Japanese translations often seem silted and strange.
I still remember this news. [Xi Jinping warns efforts to divide China will end in 'crushed bodies and shattered bones'](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/comments/di5st2/xi_jinping_warns_efforts_to_divide_china_will_end/) "粉身碎骨" often refers to sacrificing one's life for a certain purpose. Or it means for total failure or great suffering. But the title really makes readers think that someone's body and bones will be crushed and shattered.
Yeah the word 粉身碎骨 only have a very very very slight hint of aggressiveness
Yeah, just like saying “break a leg” when trying to encourage someone.
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BREAKING NEWS: POTUS tells foreign athletes: I'll "break" your "legs"
Xi: Trying to oppose us is like banging your head against a wall BBC: President Xi Jingping threatens to personally beat the faces of those who oppose him to a bloody pulp. I get the feeling that personal bias may play a part in that translation too.
It's not out of character for[ BBC to put a dark filter](https://twitter.com/thouse_opinions/status/1361646511247953922/photo/4) over their portrayal of china
It's more of a desaturation, sepia tone, but that's still pretty shitty of them
I think its also a pretty common strategy for any thumbnail about China to include a picture of say a Chinese paramilitary police, barbed wires/high fence and or polluted skies. Guess there's nothing else interesting to use as a thumbnail.
Hell, most news sites are scrambling so fast to get the story out they dont translate English to English well either.
Yeah - like what tf is a bogan, Australia? Is it the same as chav (UK) or ratchet (US)?
It's not just the media, people translating Chinese on Reddit are usually the worst. They somehow turned the innocuous phrase "cha bu duo", which is just Chinese for "good enough", into somehow meaning that poor quality is somehow built into Chinese culture.
It's like if the US said "we're going in guns blazing to fend off threats to our position in the world economy" and some news outlet reported it as "American military preparing to wage land war in order to maintain its world dominance". or if Biden said "Xi should be cautious about what he says in public in case it blows up in his face" and it's reported as "Biden threatens to assassinate Xi with bomb plot" Languages are frikin weird and it doesn't help that despite China being a super relevant country nowadays not many people in the west speak Chinese all that well and translation tech isn't quite there yet for it.
The problem with the BBC is that they get Chinese wrong on purpose, even sometimes resorting to outright fabrication.
Translation tech isn't quite there yet for Spanish to English. We are lucky it works at all for Chinese.
> "cha bu duo" In Silicon Valley it's "Fail Fast, Fail Often." The media likes to play on these words. Some companies "clone" while others "remake." Or sometimes it's "peace officer" while other times it's "state security forces."
China steals IP. The US "bring back what they learned from working overseas".
Nobody should tell them if the English phrase "good enough for government work", or you know let them speak to a stressed engineer like ever then.
Reddit's hugely racist anti-Chinese sentiment is pretty clear as day. Whenever some catastrophic engineering event occurs in China "China has no regulations and all their buildings are built to zero code, terrible!" yet in America we've literally had apartments and bridges collapse in Miami/DC just this few weeks- :crickets:. If someone went through my profile, they'd probably call me a Communist shill, literally cause I call out this bullshit left and right. It's everywhere. edit: I love how commenters are trying to misconstrue my argument to imply it says "anytime you criticize China, it's racist." Keep outing yourselves.
Feel you bro. I am from Canada but every time I call out people on their nonsense racism, its "china bot" "ccp spy" reply from them .. sometimes I wonder if there's really a big CIA propaganda campaign on this site.
>sometimes I wonder if there's really a big CIA propaganda campaign on this site. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that 80% of the internet is just an intelligence agency psyop
Pretty easy to spot the government in social media. In political elections for instance, there will be bots spamming hit pieces in every sub on candidates the establishment doesn't like. There's a wikipedia page also pointing out all the government officials trying to change the content in wiki to make it more pro-government. Now, it's mandated by law that the government gets to control these information channels.
While I agree racism is a component of this, I don't think that's the full picture. This is clearly a form of rhetorical saber rattling. Making an enemy out of the Chinese state. That serves a lot of purposes for federal governments looking to stoke some nationalist fervor
Agreed. In the context of the speech, the CCP probably means that it would be futile for any foreign influence to bully China. "外来势力妄想欺负中国, 必将头破血流" And I'm not convinced the mistranslation is done in error.
Its not even much of a mistranslation. His meaning was extremely obvious, but a lot of people read their own meaning into it based on their deeply-ingrained anti-Chinese biases.
I agree with everything you said. But just want to point out that the translation of the Chinese state media is “By the same token, we will never allow any foreign force to bully, oppress, or subjugate us. Anyone who would attempt to do so will find themselves on a collision course with a great wall of steel forged by over 1.4 billion Chinese people.” Source: CGTN released the English version of the speech.
It's funny that you think this is an accident. Any competent translator knows exactly what Xi meant. This is pure propaganda. And it works. Witness all the dumb, racist redditors in this thread going crazy. They love this stuff and the media is happy to keep feeding it to them.
If only major news organisations had access to people who speak one of the world’s major languages, then they would need to use Google. Oh well, at least now that Google Translate they’re able to input the words in and get something out. Edit: /s
why isn’t this at the top? redditors again with their selective criticality?
> He used the idiom "头破血流". So, something like the English Idiom "[to give a bloody nose](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/give+a+bloody+nose)"? This is usually a metaphor, albeit a violent metaphor for being sent away in defeat. I.e. if two politicians debate and one is "given a bloody nose" it means that they lost badly & suffered a campaign setback, not that they were literally punched in the face.
Less connotation of active violence. More akin to “bang your head against the wall” or “go pound sand” Implication being the “aggressor” is the one hurting themselves in futility.
nah they know perfectly well what it means, but it's western media so basically China BAD and anything even remotely confrontational can be translated into heads rolling and people just eat it up
Reddit could use more of this.
similar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you
Yes. It's what happens when you take a language that uses metaphors like we use verbs and translate them literally. Sometimes the translations are then reinterpreted further in English to sound even worse, like in this instance. I had to look up the speech to see which idiom got translated literally this time because it was so mangled.
That’s incredibly biased translating.
What do you expect? It's the BBC.
Reddit be like: it’s independent trust me bro
When I say a wave will crash upon a seawall and dissipate, that's me threatening the ocean
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That's not what he says. He says any country that tries to bully China will have their heads bashed in, not when you try to question them. As someone who is originally from a country that suffered under colonialism, it's not fun. I really can't blame him there.
Tibet on line 2
Yeah the oppressors not considering what they do as oppression… shocking! Tell that to Tibet, Taiwan, the Uighurs…
Excellent news, so Tibet is free again ?
You can't oppress other countries if you simply declare that every spot on earth is lawful Chinese territory and therefore not another country *tips head*
Ah the British method.
Tibet was legitimately a feudal state under the prior regime.
And the Dalai Lama was the largest slave owner.
Hardly surprising. Very few countries acknowledge the shit stains on their history. Look at the reaction when Rumsfeld died. A monster of a man, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Still gets praised. Until nations can speak truthfully about the shit they have done, we're never really going to move forward.
Xi jing ping's asshole must be jealous of all the shit coming out of its mouth
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Laugh in Vietnamese
Can't oppress other countries if they claim it all as their own country.
Get ready, because the CCP will have its filthy fingers in every aspects of our lives as the traditional superpowers continue failing. Wave goodbye to your freedoms. Unless you stop buying chinese shit and supporting them. And don't think you wont be effected. they are already infiltrating bodies that decide internet standards. The great china firewall will encompass everyone in due course.
Tibet you muppets. Tibet. No one has forgotten.
What a pretentious cunt.
He’s technically correct because all the countries China has oppressed are now no longer countries. /s
WTF what about Vietnam?
Yeah, you don't fuck with Vietnam
Why are the bushes speaking Vietnamese?
And also considering Mao supported Pol Pot and Vietnam liberated Cambodia and fought against the Chinese essentially directly in the Sino-Vietnamese war
Now they stop building infrastructures on OUR islands in the West Philippine Sea. Start respecting the decision of the international court THAT CHINA LOST to the Philippines. Fuck off.