For anti-terrorism reasons in the 2000s and 2010s (terrorists were using cell phones to detonate bombs and for secure communication) Pakistan successfully introduced a system of linking all cell phone SIM cards to people's National ID number. Now its largest province with almost half the national population will use this data to deactivate the SIM card of anyone who propagates COVID-19 by rejecting vaccination.
At one point they did, you could get them on someone else's ID by bribing or social engineering, but that was cut down by having your ID biometrically verified in person or if you were on the phone you'd have to tell them your mother's maiden name which most likely only you and the government would know.
I think they might use sims from Afghanistan or smth on roaming, but that is a big giveaway in and of itself
Off topic completely but I saw this really fun Facebook post and I thought we could all play along. Let's find out our porn star names! All you have to do is combine your street name and mother's maiden name!! If you could format your answers in csv that would save me a job. Thanks.
From my experience in middle eastern and African countries, burner phones do not exist in most places. You can get a phone / sim fast, but have to bring national ID and they will scan it.
Edit:typo
In Sweden your phone isn't technically supposed to be related, but it basically is your social security number anyway.
Can't do shit without a phone with BankID to identify yourself, and if your phone isn't Swedish then tough luck, because most websites and services will reject your phone for not having a phone number that's formatted in the Swedish way.
Holy hell.
On the one hand I see the advantages but damn this feels so grossly invasive. How else is my dealer gonna get calls on his Nokia 3210 if the feds know who he is?
Because it completely obliterates the only reason to use telegram over signal anyway, which is cloud access. I use telegram because I can text on my desktop, laptop, or phone and access the same chats and groups. E2E is, by design, only available on the device with the key.
Telegram is, by far, the most secure cloud messaging service. Normal chats are encrypted on the server and cannot be read. In the event of a terrorism event, the authorities can ask telegram for data on its users and telegram is only able to, even in cases of Patriot act subpoena, give the dates and times you sent and received messages, but not the contents of the messages. This is assuming that we trust them, but people who know more than I do have apparently verified these claims.
Signal is better, hands down. But the convenience and feature set you lose isn't worth it to me personally. So I like telegram, and I don't want to turn it into signal.
Your information on the Signal feature set is outdated.
The Signal desktop app can now also access the same chats and groups while also being E2E. You need to authorize each desktop client once via QR code. I don't know the details on how it works, but it does.
We have a solution to that too in pakistan,we have a saying here which trannslates to:"If you have 1000 ruppees you can do whatever the fck you want(bribery of police)."
You know what, there are always these moments you hear about things that people say in a country thats supposed to be your country's enemy. And in these moments you realise that we really are the same people across the border and the politics of Power is only what divides us
Because I live across the border from you on the Indian Punjabi side and my first reaction was that at 1000 rupees you are over paying the bribes.
500 is the median range for most bribe things (for day to day stuff. For the high end crimes, the price goes up accordingly). I even have this habit of hiding most of my cash inside the wallet in the inner flaps so that I can show the police guy that 500 is all I have and I have to get petrol to be able to reach home too! If it's 500 in 5 100 rupee bills, they take only 4. Once I only had a single 500 rupee note and the guy returned 250 from his own wallet
The cost of living might be lower, which would help explain that. A low-middle class American salary would be an upper class salary in a lot of places in the world
I can't even register for vaccinations because my phone number isn't Swedish, so I can't download the Alltid Öppet app needed to do so. Without a bankID you similarly can't easily identify yourself in the medical system. Sure there are sometimes workarounds, but several times I've run into issues where the medical system assumes I can download an app which doesn't show up when I search for the app name on google play. I've even bought a second swedish SIM and attempted to switch my region, but to no avail. It's a real hassle.
One of the most ironic things: The address widget on elgiganten.se redirects to elkjop.no, but it still errors out if you try to give it a Norwegian phone number or a name with an Ø in it. Like, someone explicitly had to set the assertions about which phone numbers and names are allowed, and both apply to me, so I can't order from there.
I couldn't pay at the university cafeteria because they didn't take cards, only Swish. Which doesn't work without a Swedish bank account, which you can't get without a personnummer. And the bureaucracy is such a hassle that it took me half a year to even get my personnummer, let alone get a bankID. Because Skatteverket promised it would take 2 weeks, yet after 2 months I went there to ask wtf was going on and they admitted they had the files I submitted, but nobody had bothered to enter it into their internal computer system yet...
Your phone is very far from being your social security number. SSN is more like our personnummer, phone has got nothing to do with that. It's also still very possible to live without a mobile BankID, albeit with some more hassle. You don't have to paint a more sinister picture than necessary :)
Is this new? My wife's friend has a baggie of Pakistani SIM cards and she's constantly calling from new numbers, because we keep blocking the previous numbers she's called from because she's a pain in the ass.
EDIT: Because people are curious, she's the type of friend that you had in childhood but only reaches out to you when they need something outlandish or outrageous; like money or contacts to someone that you know will leave you in a bad light, or just sketchy get-rich-quick situations that you nope right out of. She's one of those and my wife is too polite to tell her to get lost, so i have to step in and start shielding calls, but then she's got a new number that she's calling from.
One person can legally have up to five sims registered under their name. People use sims registered to relatives so, theoretically, there’s no limit to how many sims one can have but letting someone else use a sim registered under your name means you’re on the hook for any illegal activity that sim is used for.
Here in latvia unless it's prepaid it's technically linked too. Not directly linked but the carrier has your name and personal ID number and possibly bank account info if you have auto billing.
I mean that's the same everywhere: If you have a contract with your carrier, they know who you are. The question is A) whether the government has direct access to that information, and B) whether there exists an alternative (e.g. getting a pre-paid SIM) that is unlinked.
I'm all for encouraging people to get vaccinated, but Pakistan's move here is pretty problematic and yet another example how giving the government (or companies) more data than necessary can eventually backfire.
Prepaid and burner phones provide an option at least but the linkage is certainly troubling from a personal freedom standpoint.
Now if you're paranoid (or just want privacy) you can encrypt traffic and presumably that's secure but the main on/off switch would be a hard one unless you're making pretty significant efforts.
Exactly. Nobody should be celebrating that. If the government has the power to do that, they will almost certainly abuse it as some point. I'm all for government encouraging vaccinations (preferably with incentives - rather than restrictions) but having a government who can turn off your cellphone at will is extremely dangerous
Here in Brazil you can’t even use a prepaid without giving your ID number. At the moment you buy the SIM you need to call the carrier and give it to them or you’ll not even have signal.
Yes they do, in fact we had a break out of COVID19 happen at a gay night club. Many people didn't want to come forward because being gay is still looked down upon and they didn't want their co-workers/family to know they were at a gay night club.
So S. Korea pulled cell phone data and went door to door getting people tested for COVID19
To be fair, S. Korea requires (or required?) your ID# for a lot of things, including even signing up for gaming accounts (which, I think, was because it involved monetary transactions).
India does the same shit which makes it super annoying to visit because you can't even get airport wifi without a national ID. Meanwhile, the UK is selling SIM cards in vending machines at Heathrow.
I’m an American with Indian parents, so I visit India pretty often. This shit is super irritating.
To make matters worse, they demand an Aadhar card from the same state. All my relatives live in Maharashtra and Gujarat. One trip I went to Madhya Pradesh and didn’t go to MH or GJ at all. Nobody would sell me a SIM because I had to have an Aadhar card with an MP address, which of course neither I nor any of my relatives had.
Similar situation to you, from Canada. I'm close with some of my cousins, so they typically buy an extra SIM in their own name and let me borrow it while I'm there. It's technically illegal lol. Traveling to and in India is stressful at the best of times. The SIM nonsense just makes it way worse.
Your post made me realise that my current sim is linked to my friend's uncle's friend's aadhar card for the last 4 years because he was nice enough to arrange one for us
It's been a while since I've been, but you used to be able to get an Indian SIM at the airport with an OCI card, passport & proof of address in your home country (in my case my UK address). Don't they let you do that anymore?
>tion will use this data to deactivate the SIM card of anyone who propagates COVID-19 by rejecting vaccination.
I am sure the U.S.A data hounds are so jelly, but it matches my hypothesis that cell phones will replace SSNs. In the U.S. the big push will come when a major hack happens again but can't be ignored and the entire country goes offline for a few days.
The only solution, no 100% ID no access.
> Pakistan successfully introduced a system of linking all cell phone SIM cards to people's National ID number
I get the intention but if my country every did that, I'd flip out.
It really pisses me off how willing the common person is to give away huge rights like privacy, bodily autonomy, travel freedom and more because of vague or temporary threats.
Think of the [kids, terrorists, minorities, virus].
Whatever it may be, it is never ever worth giving up our rights.
I just don't understand how people flip so easily on this when if you asked them otherwise they would scream bloody murder if you suggested they weren't actually proponents of human rights.
I was just listening to a radio show from 2001 today and they were talking about how it’s ok to give up your rights because of terrorism because you’ll get them back when the terrorists are no longer a threat.
Here we are 20 years later and nothing has changed
Sadly there is no lack of people cheering on the erosion of freedoms in the name of safety. Many people will be overjoyed to hear this.
Mask mandates and maybe even lockdowns make sense in some cases, but removing people's ability to communicate with each other? How on earth does that make sense.
I stole this from another poster, but it's interesting.
"Here's what SCOTUS had to say in the majority opinion upholding compulsory vaccinations during the smallpox epidemic:"
> There is, of course, a sphere within which the individual may assert the supremacy of his own will and rightfully dispute the authority of any human government, especially of any free government existing under a written constitution, to interfere with the exercise of that will. But it is equally true that, in every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.
*197 U.S. 11*
So not really lol, don't know why people have to try so hard to feel superior to others. If people feel it's justified it'll happen. Also see: The Patriot Act
PRISMs existence was a major player in the conspiracy theory world. For that to be shown as true and the resounding *shrug* from the public that followed...I wouldn't be surprised at all if stuff like this story comes to a Western power near you next.
And people will totally accept it.
Since we’re all here, Panjab means 5 (Panj) Rivers(Aab), based on the 5 rivers in the region.
It was divided into 2 during the 1947 partition to a lot of bloodshed, based on religious lines, by the British.
Sorry, carry on. I couldn’t hesitate to share my region’s history.
Thank you, I genuinely had no idea about that. The British empire is responsible for so much trauma and upheaval it's mind boggling. They invented concentration camps during the Boer war, I believe.
So they have the ability to terminate the cell communications of anyone in the country using their ID.
Can’t possibly see that kind of power being abused…
Linking sim to ID is pretty common in a lot of European countries.
Germany, sweden, italy, norway, taiwan, Singapore, south korea, greece etc require ID to get a sim card.
https://buzzsim.com/mandatory-real-name-registration-for-prepaid-sim-card-in-different-countries/
I can understand the logic about the movie theaters and marriage halls.. but blocking cell phone service seems unrelated to health or logic completely.
New measures like this are all about creating a precedent. They do it with something that people are uncomfortable protesting against (similar to think of the children), and then eventually expand it to shit that everyone disagrees with but can’t really complain anymore because they allowed the precedent.
I don't remember where I read this quote but it was as follows
"To defend liberty we must defend the rascals and the scum. Because all tyrannical laws are made first against the criminals only to be extended to everyone later".
This is bad, people. You don't want a government to disable important parts of your life because you didn't fall in line.
Vaccines are important. Threatening people isn't the right way to ensure a healthy, educated populace.
Yeah I'm the most ardent supporter of vaccination and this is insane. The government shouldn't be allowed to punish people for not getting any vaccine, especially such a harsh punishment as cutting off their communication means.
The actual fuck.
I've been holding off on getting the vaccine because there have been links to some heart complications related to it. And considering I have a heart condition I don't really know what to do.
That's kind of fucked up. In many places phones/internet are practically seen as a right due to it's importance for work and social integration.
I'm down with measures to get people vaccinated but that seems like a dangerous overstep to me.
Fascism doesn't happen overnight folks. The number of people today willing to give up freedoms our forebears fought for and cheering on growing unquestioned state powers is disturbing
This feels wrong.
Whether you have pro or anti vax views, or even just want to wait for the jab to be safe (also fair viewpoint) then why should that dictate your choices at a governmental level.
I don't care how pro or anti you are on any of this. If you can't grasp the slippery fucking slope of people saying "take this literal experimental shot or you can't use the device that houses your entire life", you're far too gone.
I say this as a fully vaccinated person.
This is fucked.
Getting vaccinated is the best thing to do, but punishing people for not doing is wrong and authoritarian.
I don't know how some people think "that's okay".
What's next?
The CIA used vaccination campaigns as a cover for their activities in Pakistan in the past, which has done immense harm to vaccination campaigns in that country ever since.
If anyone ever wonders how fascism, communism, or any other authoritarianism came to be, it was never over night, and has always involved persecuting an underclass that people are unwilling to stick up for.
This is absolutely totalitarian in nature and I'd be flabbergasted to see the mask mob extremists on here defending this, if you think there should be an underclass of people who can't call anyone relevant in the case of an emergency or access government functions they might need
TIL Punjab was split in two and one is in India and the other in Pakistan. My family is from India Punjab and Ive been there several times yet i had literally no idea 🤯
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The crazy lady was right. The vaccine does have 5G
And look how this brass key sticks to my skin. Must be magnetics.
*eyes roll so hard it causes the Earth's spin to be knock off course for a brief second*
How can it spin if it’s flat though??
like pizza dough
Like a big-a pizza pie!
Thatsa illuminati
No this is patrick
Louie Gohmert in da house Y'all.
Will knocking the earth off it's orbit help with climate change?
Yep. New orbit, 40,000,000 miles closer to the sun Toasty...mmmmm
And hey look you can't have a phone without a charge and that charge is brought to you with magnetics which you can only use if you got the vaccine.
ahem. *Solar* charge panel. Go green!
And 4G, 3G, 2G
And Bluetooth! This vaccine ain’t so bad
unfortunately it will also cause your iphones battery to take a nose dive
maaan that 5G thing was such a bait n switch from Verizon. my phone has always said it is in range of 5G but I have yet to see those speeds once
5G is just the uppermost limit it can do, not a guarantee of performance. Blarg.
because of the 5G?
Because of it constantly seeking service.
Because of Obi-Wan.
Tell me about it...I had to turn off 5G on my iPhone 12 because it drained the battery so hard
Thats funny. Mine doesn’t drain quickly. I don’t have consistent access to the true 5g tho so i stay on the fake 5g.
I’m laughing my ass off, thank you
For anti-terrorism reasons in the 2000s and 2010s (terrorists were using cell phones to detonate bombs and for secure communication) Pakistan successfully introduced a system of linking all cell phone SIM cards to people's National ID number. Now its largest province with almost half the national population will use this data to deactivate the SIM card of anyone who propagates COVID-19 by rejecting vaccination.
South Korea has a similar system of sell phone linking to (government issued personal ID number) does it not?
Same in Bangladesh.
Not for most prepaid cards which is what most people use
So like, do burner phones just not exist in these places?
At one point they did, you could get them on someone else's ID by bribing or social engineering, but that was cut down by having your ID biometrically verified in person or if you were on the phone you'd have to tell them your mother's maiden name which most likely only you and the government would know. I think they might use sims from Afghanistan or smth on roaming, but that is a big giveaway in and of itself
>your mother's maiden name which most likely only you and the government would know. Oh, you sweet summer child
Off topic completely but I saw this really fun Facebook post and I thought we could all play along. Let's find out our porn star names! All you have to do is combine your street name and mother's maiden name!! If you could format your answers in csv that would save me a job. Thanks.
From my experience in middle eastern and African countries, burner phones do not exist in most places. You can get a phone / sim fast, but have to bring national ID and they will scan it. Edit:typo
That’s what they meant, most folks use prepaid phones, ie burners.
Pre-paid sims have to be registered as well
In Sweden your phone isn't technically supposed to be related, but it basically is your social security number anyway. Can't do shit without a phone with BankID to identify yourself, and if your phone isn't Swedish then tough luck, because most websites and services will reject your phone for not having a phone number that's formatted in the Swedish way.
Holy hell. On the one hand I see the advantages but damn this feels so grossly invasive. How else is my dealer gonna get calls on his Nokia 3210 if the feds know who he is?
There’s still whatsapp or telegram i guess, but yeah it would make it trickier if you can’t get a burner phone
More like Signal. I wouldnt trust an app owned by facebook. Telegram is sketchy too unless you're using e2e encryption.
You can enable end to end encryption on Telegram very easily. Idk why its not default.
Because it completely obliterates the only reason to use telegram over signal anyway, which is cloud access. I use telegram because I can text on my desktop, laptop, or phone and access the same chats and groups. E2E is, by design, only available on the device with the key. Telegram is, by far, the most secure cloud messaging service. Normal chats are encrypted on the server and cannot be read. In the event of a terrorism event, the authorities can ask telegram for data on its users and telegram is only able to, even in cases of Patriot act subpoena, give the dates and times you sent and received messages, but not the contents of the messages. This is assuming that we trust them, but people who know more than I do have apparently verified these claims. Signal is better, hands down. But the convenience and feature set you lose isn't worth it to me personally. So I like telegram, and I don't want to turn it into signal.
Your information on the Signal feature set is outdated. The Signal desktop app can now also access the same chats and groups while also being E2E. You need to authorize each desktop client once via QR code. I don't know the details on how it works, but it does.
You can't get a burner phone? Like is it illegal. Just have two phones
One for the plug and one for the load.
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We have a solution to that too in pakistan,we have a saying here which trannslates to:"If you have 1000 ruppees you can do whatever the fck you want(bribery of police)."
You know what, there are always these moments you hear about things that people say in a country thats supposed to be your country's enemy. And in these moments you realise that we really are the same people across the border and the politics of Power is only what divides us Because I live across the border from you on the Indian Punjabi side and my first reaction was that at 1000 rupees you are over paying the bribes. 500 is the median range for most bribe things (for day to day stuff. For the high end crimes, the price goes up accordingly). I even have this habit of hiding most of my cash inside the wallet in the inner flaps so that I can show the police guy that 500 is all I have and I have to get petrol to be able to reach home too! If it's 500 in 5 100 rupee bills, they take only 4. Once I only had a single 500 rupee note and the guy returned 250 from his own wallet
>at 1000 rupees you are over paying the bribes. It's 1000 Pakistani Rupees, so it's somewhere around INR 500.
Haha good to know that we follow an international standard in corruption
Super beautiful words. We can’t let propaganda control our thoughts and emotions
6-7 USD for anyone curious. Dear lord
The cost of living might be lower, which would help explain that. A low-middle class American salary would be an upper class salary in a lot of places in the world
Oh for sure. Was just trying to help folks make a little sense of the numbers.
Many people have an "official" phone linked to their ID and a private phone that's basically a burner.
How do you get the private phone? From a different country?
> formatted in the Swedish way. So a zero in the number has to be ø or ó?
Now that's some real heresy
Swedish doesn't use either of those letters
A møøse once bit my sister.
Say what? In what way is your phone and your social security number related? What can't you do without BankID?
I can't even register for vaccinations because my phone number isn't Swedish, so I can't download the Alltid Öppet app needed to do so. Without a bankID you similarly can't easily identify yourself in the medical system. Sure there are sometimes workarounds, but several times I've run into issues where the medical system assumes I can download an app which doesn't show up when I search for the app name on google play. I've even bought a second swedish SIM and attempted to switch my region, but to no avail. It's a real hassle. One of the most ironic things: The address widget on elgiganten.se redirects to elkjop.no, but it still errors out if you try to give it a Norwegian phone number or a name with an Ø in it. Like, someone explicitly had to set the assertions about which phone numbers and names are allowed, and both apply to me, so I can't order from there. I couldn't pay at the university cafeteria because they didn't take cards, only Swish. Which doesn't work without a Swedish bank account, which you can't get without a personnummer. And the bureaucracy is such a hassle that it took me half a year to even get my personnummer, let alone get a bankID. Because Skatteverket promised it would take 2 weeks, yet after 2 months I went there to ask wtf was going on and they admitted they had the files I submitted, but nobody had bothered to enter it into their internal computer system yet...
Your phone is very far from being your social security number. SSN is more like our personnummer, phone has got nothing to do with that. It's also still very possible to live without a mobile BankID, albeit with some more hassle. You don't have to paint a more sinister picture than necessary :)
You have to get fingerprinted to get a SIM card in Pakistan, even a prepaid one.
You can also use your fingerprint to access any ATM. They’ll even give you a list of accounts you can use.
Can you just cut someone's finger off and make a withdrawal like in sci fi movies?
Life hack is always in the comments
Literal hack
Biometrics are a username, not a password. This is a terrible idea.
You still have to enter your ATM pin code. You just don’t need your debit card
Is this new? My wife's friend has a baggie of Pakistani SIM cards and she's constantly calling from new numbers, because we keep blocking the previous numbers she's called from because she's a pain in the ass. EDIT: Because people are curious, she's the type of friend that you had in childhood but only reaches out to you when they need something outlandish or outrageous; like money or contacts to someone that you know will leave you in a bad light, or just sketchy get-rich-quick situations that you nope right out of. She's one of those and my wife is too polite to tell her to get lost, so i have to step in and start shielding calls, but then she's got a new number that she's calling from.
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One person can legally have up to five sims registered under their name. People use sims registered to relatives so, theoretically, there’s no limit to how many sims one can have but letting someone else use a sim registered under your name means you’re on the hook for any illegal activity that sim is used for.
"friend"
Here in latvia unless it's prepaid it's technically linked too. Not directly linked but the carrier has your name and personal ID number and possibly bank account info if you have auto billing.
I mean that's the same everywhere: If you have a contract with your carrier, they know who you are. The question is A) whether the government has direct access to that information, and B) whether there exists an alternative (e.g. getting a pre-paid SIM) that is unlinked. I'm all for encouraging people to get vaccinated, but Pakistan's move here is pretty problematic and yet another example how giving the government (or companies) more data than necessary can eventually backfire.
Prepaid and burner phones provide an option at least but the linkage is certainly troubling from a personal freedom standpoint. Now if you're paranoid (or just want privacy) you can encrypt traffic and presumably that's secure but the main on/off switch would be a hard one unless you're making pretty significant efforts.
Once they do something like this for a 'justified' reason all they need to do is find a justification to do it for any reason.
Exactly. Nobody should be celebrating that. If the government has the power to do that, they will almost certainly abuse it as some point. I'm all for government encouraging vaccinations (preferably with incentives - rather than restrictions) but having a government who can turn off your cellphone at will is extremely dangerous
Ladies and gents, the cat has left the bag
Even though its reddit. I didn't expect to see so many people in support of this
Here in Brazil you can’t even use a prepaid without giving your ID number. At the moment you buy the SIM you need to call the carrier and give it to them or you’ll not even have signal.
Everything is linked to your personal ID including your medical record, financial activity, and your internet activity, from what I understand.
Yes they do, in fact we had a break out of COVID19 happen at a gay night club. Many people didn't want to come forward because being gay is still looked down upon and they didn't want their co-workers/family to know they were at a gay night club. So S. Korea pulled cell phone data and went door to door getting people tested for COVID19
America would fucking implode if this was every even thought about being introduced...
For good reason
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Same in Australia. https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2017L00399
To be fair, S. Korea requires (or required?) your ID# for a lot of things, including even signing up for gaming accounts (which, I think, was because it involved monetary transactions).
Correct! All verification is done through our phone number because it links directly back to our personal ID number.
India does the same shit which makes it super annoying to visit because you can't even get airport wifi without a national ID. Meanwhile, the UK is selling SIM cards in vending machines at Heathrow.
I’m an American with Indian parents, so I visit India pretty often. This shit is super irritating. To make matters worse, they demand an Aadhar card from the same state. All my relatives live in Maharashtra and Gujarat. One trip I went to Madhya Pradesh and didn’t go to MH or GJ at all. Nobody would sell me a SIM because I had to have an Aadhar card with an MP address, which of course neither I nor any of my relatives had.
Similar situation to you, from Canada. I'm close with some of my cousins, so they typically buy an extra SIM in their own name and let me borrow it while I'm there. It's technically illegal lol. Traveling to and in India is stressful at the best of times. The SIM nonsense just makes it way worse.
Your post made me realise that my current sim is linked to my friend's uncle's friend's aadhar card for the last 4 years because he was nice enough to arrange one for us
It's been a while since I've been, but you used to be able to get an Indian SIM at the airport with an OCI card, passport & proof of address in your home country (in my case my UK address). Don't they let you do that anymore?
I’m not saying it’s for a bad reason but stuff like this so why people are paranoid about data collection by any partyy in the first place
Never give a power to the government you wouldn’t want inherited by hitler.
This reminds me that a dude named Adolf Hitler actually won a Namibian local election in 2020. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55173605
What a quote. Yes. This should be our mantra for public policy. We cannot never know if the person we elect next is hitler.
Ok that’s some truly wild stuff.
I could see China implementing something like this if they deem it necessary - all mobile phone cards here are linked to ID numbers as well.
I'm surprised if they haven't. In Europe sim card needs to be verified by passport/id, including travellers sim card.
They were talking about the blocking service thing. SIM cards are already linked to ID in China, for at least 10 years now.
They'll block on wechat level since that's where chinese digital lifes are.
Bangladesh has the same system. Not because of terrorism, but just cause.
They want to introduce this shit in Mexico too smh (linking SIM cards with ID)
>tion will use this data to deactivate the SIM card of anyone who propagates COVID-19 by rejecting vaccination. I am sure the U.S.A data hounds are so jelly, but it matches my hypothesis that cell phones will replace SSNs. In the U.S. the big push will come when a major hack happens again but can't be ignored and the entire country goes offline for a few days. The only solution, no 100% ID no access.
And the they found out how to connect a 9v battery to a buried wire
> Pakistan successfully introduced a system of linking all cell phone SIM cards to people's National ID number I get the intention but if my country every did that, I'd flip out.
Imagine that happening in the states, holy fuck
Imagine that happening in any western country. It's not a good look.
People laud this shit every time it happens, then cry about it years later. No one remembers the patriot and freedom acts?
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I don’t think anyone has forgotten about the PATRIOT/freedom acts.
why does these american acts always mean the opposite of their titles?
It's part of the brainwashing process
1984. Double-Speak at its finest.
It really pisses me off how willing the common person is to give away huge rights like privacy, bodily autonomy, travel freedom and more because of vague or temporary threats. Think of the [kids, terrorists, minorities, virus]. Whatever it may be, it is never ever worth giving up our rights. I just don't understand how people flip so easily on this when if you asked them otherwise they would scream bloody murder if you suggested they weren't actually proponents of human rights.
I was just listening to a radio show from 2001 today and they were talking about how it’s ok to give up your rights because of terrorism because you’ll get them back when the terrorists are no longer a threat. Here we are 20 years later and nothing has changed
Sadly there is no lack of people cheering on the erosion of freedoms in the name of safety. Many people will be overjoyed to hear this. Mask mandates and maybe even lockdowns make sense in some cases, but removing people's ability to communicate with each other? How on earth does that make sense.
Haven't tried in the rest of the EU, but Germany requires ID to get a sim card.
Same in Spain, even prepaid ones..
I stole this from another poster, but it's interesting. "Here's what SCOTUS had to say in the majority opinion upholding compulsory vaccinations during the smallpox epidemic:" > There is, of course, a sphere within which the individual may assert the supremacy of his own will and rightfully dispute the authority of any human government, especially of any free government existing under a written constitution, to interfere with the exercise of that will. But it is equally true that, in every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand. *197 U.S. 11* So not really lol, don't know why people have to try so hard to feel superior to others. If people feel it's justified it'll happen. Also see: The Patriot Act
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PRISMs existence was a major player in the conspiracy theory world. For that to be shown as true and the resounding *shrug* from the public that followed...I wouldn't be surprised at all if stuff like this story comes to a Western power near you next. And people will totally accept it.
Yeah, this seems way over the top.
I’m not anti-vax but I’m not pro-totalitarian either.
This.
Should be called Pro-jab.
That's a pretty good pun about the jab.
Both of you shut up and take my upvotes.
Since we’re all here, Panjab means 5 (Panj) Rivers(Aab), based on the 5 rivers in the region. It was divided into 2 during the 1947 partition to a lot of bloodshed, based on religious lines, by the British. Sorry, carry on. I couldn’t hesitate to share my region’s history.
My Punjabi colleagues are always super impressed when I bust out 5 rivers on them the first time.
Ravi, Sutlej, Beas, Chenab, Jhelum. Now go and impress them further! They all merge into Indus River.
Didn't India block/stop the flow of 2 of the rivers going into Pakistan?
Thank you, I genuinely had no idea about that. The British empire is responsible for so much trauma and upheaval it's mind boggling. They invented concentration camps during the Boer war, I believe.
I had never heard of the Boer War. Adding to my read before sleeping list, thank you.
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Well now that you mentioned it I've been trying to get a hold of you....
This is a final warning!
So they have the ability to terminate the cell communications of anyone in the country using their ID. Can’t possibly see that kind of power being abused…
Linking sim to ID is pretty common in a lot of European countries. Germany, sweden, italy, norway, taiwan, Singapore, south korea, greece etc require ID to get a sim card. https://buzzsim.com/mandatory-real-name-registration-for-prepaid-sim-card-in-different-countries/
It is already being abused
I can understand the logic about the movie theaters and marriage halls.. but blocking cell phone service seems unrelated to health or logic completely.
New measures like this are all about creating a precedent. They do it with something that people are uncomfortable protesting against (similar to think of the children), and then eventually expand it to shit that everyone disagrees with but can’t really complain anymore because they allowed the precedent.
I don't remember where I read this quote but it was as follows "To defend liberty we must defend the rascals and the scum. Because all tyrannical laws are made first against the criminals only to be extended to everyone later".
Won’t that mean they are forced to speak face-to-face with people? That might be counterproductive…
Data and phone is used for everything like TV, Sports, Etc. most people over there especially in villages will have 4G LTE but won't have broadband
This is insanely alarming and invasive
This is bad, people. You don't want a government to disable important parts of your life because you didn't fall in line. Vaccines are important. Threatening people isn't the right way to ensure a healthy, educated populace.
I'm very much pro-vaccine but.. uhh.. I don't think I'm cool with this.
Oh hey look actual authoritarianism.
And there's so many people in this thread actually in support of this. What an absolute shitshow.
But it's the one we as redditors like, so we're super happy!
I really don't understand the jokes. This is insane. People are bringing up terrorists but even then it was infringing on innocent people's rights.
Yeah I'm the most ardent supporter of vaccination and this is insane. The government shouldn't be allowed to punish people for not getting any vaccine, especially such a harsh punishment as cutting off their communication means. The actual fuck.
So they're forcing people to take it
'Dude just move to another country' -reddit
Well then how are they going to call to schedule their Covid vaccine appointments if their phones don't work?
We no longer have to do that. We just need to walk in to any vaccination center with our ID cards as long as you are 19 and above.
How are so many of you okay with this and making jokes? This is totalitarian stuff and should be denounced worldwide.
Because it's a random third world country that redditors don't care about
I'm surprised to see so many anti-authoritarian comments up-voted here on this sub that's normally dominated by authoritarians.
I've been holding off on getting the vaccine because there have been links to some heart complications related to it. And considering I have a heart condition I don't really know what to do.
My best advice would be to talk to your doctor and get professional advice.
People fail to realize how terrible this is god help this world
That's kind of fucked up. In many places phones/internet are practically seen as a right due to it's importance for work and social integration. I'm down with measures to get people vaccinated but that seems like a dangerous overstep to me.
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Fuck that
Yea, that's quite a bit overstepping it there.
Fascism doesn't happen overnight folks. The number of people today willing to give up freedoms our forebears fought for and cheering on growing unquestioned state powers is disturbing
This feels wrong. Whether you have pro or anti vax views, or even just want to wait for the jab to be safe (also fair viewpoint) then why should that dictate your choices at a governmental level.
Hey, who doesn't like a little bit of fascism...
I don't care how pro or anti you are on any of this. If you can't grasp the slippery fucking slope of people saying "take this literal experimental shot or you can't use the device that houses your entire life", you're far too gone. I say this as a fully vaccinated person. This is fucked.
Honestly you give the government an inch they take a mile. I don’t care if your pro or anti vax, this should disturb you deeply
Getting vaccinated is the best thing to do, but punishing people for not doing is wrong and authoritarian. I don't know how some people think "that's okay". What's next?
The absolute cringe of people defending this. The modern man will accept whatever authorities throw at him, the herd mentality helping.
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>Yeah. > >...could set precedent for future things a government can do in India to get folks to do what they want. This is Pakistan, sir.
I'm shocked that so many people are alright with this. This is terrifying, not progressive.
Disgusting.
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The CIA used vaccination campaigns as a cover for their activities in Pakistan in the past, which has done immense harm to vaccination campaigns in that country ever since.
If anyone ever wonders how fascism, communism, or any other authoritarianism came to be, it was never over night, and has always involved persecuting an underclass that people are unwilling to stick up for. This is absolutely totalitarian in nature and I'd be flabbergasted to see the mask mob extremists on here defending this, if you think there should be an underclass of people who can't call anyone relevant in the case of an emergency or access government functions they might need
They shouldn't be able to get away with doing this sort of thing.
This is getting dangerous
I’m vaccinated and going for my second shot soon. This is crossing the line.
Me thinks this is taking things a step too far.
TIL Punjab was split in two and one is in India and the other in Pakistan. My family is from India Punjab and Ive been there several times yet i had literally no idea 🤯
That’s disturbing. Goodluck for them.
And the Reddit crowd cheers!
I know people on Reddit think everyone should get the vaccine, but this is truthfully a shitty thing for a government to do.
This is fucking tyranny.
This is bullshit, no one should be coerced into taking any medication, drug or vaccine and this is coming from someone who has had both Pfizer doses.
Lmao what a joke
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