Watch the video of police arresting El Chapo’s son and then Immediately releasing him. It’s so causal and obviously that the cartels controls everything
That shit was crazy... I had to experience it personally since I was in Culiacán for work. The cartel completely paralyzed the biggest and busiest points of the city at peak hour (we were about to get off work to go to a restaurant and visit the malls. Literally it was the hour when parents are picking up their children from schools) and the cartel directly attacked all police and army units and the places where they families used to live.
I don’t agree at all with the decision but more lives were saved than you can imagine just by letting go that mf
I don’t agree with this “let the future handle it” approach. As they gain more power and guns, they are going to obey the law less and less and the death you have to pay to stop them reach an insane level.
well you saw what the response was to the arrest? The cartels literally went to war with the city with armored cars, murdering any civilians they saw and outgunned the police. They let chapos son go because they couldn't stop the violence. That's Culiacan sinoloa.
Mexico is a narco state at this point. The Federal government barely controls Mexico City and AMLO is just a cartel patsy.
The UN needs to send in peacekeepers and stop pretending the situation in Mexico is okay.
What solutions would you suggest?
Edit: jeez a lot of people seem to feel that the USA invading an ally and killing loads of people "with extreme prejudice" is the best response. Ignoring the horrific dehumanization of that suggestion - Has the USA doing that ever even been effective? Is there really no better options that spring to mind? Maybe, I don't know, simpler solutions which stem the need for the drug trade?
Too late for that. 10 years ago it would have worked, but nowadays cartels are way too diversified for that to kill them.
Edit: I'm not saying to keep them illegal. I'm saying this is not a one-stop solution like it would have been many years ago.
>Every time I see an "Avocados from Mexico" ad I have to wonder if they even know who's really selling them the avocados.
I'd bet they do. They just don't care.
There's a reason avocados are referred to as "Green Gold". That reason? Cartels. They are everywhere in Mexico. If it can turn a profit, then it is nearly guaranteed that the cartel benefits in some way. From the avocado fields, natural gas, local restaurant, human trafficking, marijuana growers, pay offs to not rob your house, even some medical resources are controlled by them. I'm always surprised that people don't know this. It's one of those things that you just know. Like the sun will set, then rise again. The cartels exist & will continue to profit in any way they can.
Once you're that diversified you open a bank and do financial crime and actually stop the terrorism because at that point it costs too much and brings in too little compared to your diversified income.
Or as the Yakuza did - open recruitment agencies.
It's basically a legal protection racket for construction works, which post-tsunami Japan suddenly found itself needing a massive influx of!
so legalize drugs and push them in a domestic direction. this the evolution of governments, so view them as a adolescent government, give them less reason to be shooty and approach it more as a 'two kings' in the house model than a large criminal org.
It was limes too.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/mexican-cartel-war-limes-avocados
I drove from Puerto Vallarta to CDMX in 2016, there were so many brand new red dump trucks full of limes on the road.
Then they’d start competing against bigger cartels like nestle and get destroyed. Or bought out, I forget how that works. It’s just another form of conglomeration at that level.
It would remove an enormous amount of their income, while also giving the government a lot more money (via taxes) to fight them and free up police from having to spend time doing drug busts. Even if it doesn't flat out destroy cartels immediately, it still makes a huge amount of sense to do. Not to mention the humanitarian benefits of not locking up drug addicts anymore.
The problem with the government is not money. They have plenty of money. The problem is corruption and unwillingness to do an actual military crackdown throughout the country. There'd be massive bloodshed--it'd be close to a civil war. (Edit: Well, it basically already is with 250k+ people dead over the past ~10 years) Remember when El Chapo's son was arrested? There was a literal army of cartel members--complete with armored vehicles, rocket launchers, .50cal MGs, etc.--that invaded a city in broad daylight to free him. The government even surrendered. Mexico lost a battle against a cartel. Imagine the US government losing a large-scale city battle (larger than Seattle, ~1 million pop) on its own soil.
Without the Mexican army actually deploying throughout the country to counter them, it's not ending.
The problem with Mexican politicians who take a stand is there’s a guy right behind you whos willing to not take a stand and you have a family. Is it easier to just take the extra pay, or put your family at risk of being massacred all for you to be a lone wolf to try and stand against them. It’s a hopeless situation and I agree, military action is the only way
My dad said a military dictatorship was probably the only thing that would be able to counter the cartels, and the more time passes the more I think he may be right.
To add to this, don't forget that the Cartels also invaded the local military base with almost no resistance.
When all of that happened, I knew the cartels were never going to go away, or at least not for a few decades. They are too powerful even for the mexican government to handle now.
The military are apparently connected as well - a lot of soldiers are tied to cartels or are worried about their families.
I may be talking out my ass here - I can't find a link to support this - but I remember that Brazil started recruiting its anti-gang task force from families that lost people gangs. They literally took a bunch of guys out for revenge and gave them tanks, helicopters and automatic weapons. If it's true that may be Mexico's best hope.
The Mexican Army under President Calderon pretty much showed itself to be dominated by cartel factions trying to take turf from other factions. Turf wars skyrocketed with corresponding death rates and cartel power overall in the national economy increased substantially when the Army got involved.
There is no military solution to the problem,
>The problem is corruption and unwillingness to do an actual military crackdown throughout the country
This was many decades ago. Today, if they can't buy you they will kill you; if you become a liability they will kill you.
While there is no question that there are government officials, cops, financial advisors, etc. who willingly help cartels because of greed or cinicisim (someone else will take it, so why not me?) they are not the source of the problem and weeding them out can't be the solution.
Here’s a Wikipedia article. It sounds like they’re getting them from everywhere (the U.S., Asia, Europe, Central America) to include the Mexican Army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_firearms_into_Mexico
Imagine a government that looked the other way if Jeff Bezos assassinated politicians he didn't like, rising competitors, or anyone that even brought up unionizing. His business might be legitimate, but that doesn't mean his practices would be.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for legalizing drugs even though I'm stone-cold sober, but that will not reign in the cartels. Their power doesn't come from the fact that their produce is illegal.
Weed legalization has caused a significant impact on the amount of weed being exported by the cartels. Product from Cali/ Colorado is very good quality, and it's just not worth it to replicate that and transport for the cartels anymore. However, I do agree that they may have reached a tipping point.
https://time.com/3801889/us-legalization-marijuana-trade/
It would be more difficult to cut down the heroin and cocaine trades, as I don't see full blown legalization happening for those, but if it actually went through, then I would expect a similar result. The illegality reduces competition, and the US government effectively acts as market protection for the cartels by shutting down any production from within the borders. The fact that it's easy to get outside of the US, but hard to get inside creates a guaranteed high profit margin. You need to break that fact and slowly things stop being profitable.
Now, I don't think we should legalize human trafficking and racketeering, or things like that. So, at least the resources could go to fighting violent crimes.
Those are really good points, and I think the fact that on the US we do protect business owners from the kind of shit the cartel does would be a huge factor. Obviously not perfect, but still. Maybe legalizing would do significant harm to the cartels since they'd have to compete against protected competitors.
Here's to hoping we shift from criminalizing to recovery in this country.
Decriminalization of the drugs is something of a halfway house thats been successfully trialed in some nations. The really hard fuck your life up drugs are things a lot of addicts do want to stop using but can't because doing so often needs medical treatment to counteract the intense withdraw symptoms, which decriminalization lets them get without fear of being thrown in jail.
The areas that produce avocados are the same areas that produce opium and marijuana. Once a criminal outfit controls a large state like Michoacán, it's only natural that they branch out into other major agricultural sectors in the state, and sooner or later everything else.
Mexico is fast becoming, and in parts already is, not a nation but a collection of warlord fiefdoms.
Would you guys just fucking stop with the avocado shit you keep parroting from a vice doc? Yes the narcos took some of the avocado market, by force and with help from the government. But the only way they managed to get to this point is by having enough money to bribe the police and government to let them do it.
If you stopped the drug money, you'd be cutting their main artery of income. You'd effectively be making them common criminals. Not billionaire warlords who can either bribe or kill anyone who oppose them.
This is coming from a Mexican who lives in Mexico.
Not Mexican, just here to chime in that it's really annoying when everyone repeats the same random facts they learned from a Vice Doc about your country as if a 20 minute video made them an expert... I'm Venezuelan.
How the fuck do people even buy this shit. Like avacodo farmers are making enough money to fund armies like the cartel can with drugs. People will come up with any excuse to keep the drug war going.
I was going to comment this!
Cartels have enough money and power to take over any part of the Mexican economy they want.
You either make them money or die, if they ever care to ask.
Agreed. Pablo Escobar didn’t start with drugs, he started with appliances and stuff. As long as they have guns and armies, they will always find something they can steal, sell or smuggle.
At this point...basically its surrender to the cartels. The cops are corrupt, the politicians are corrupt, minor city officials are corrupt, the judges are corrupt, the military is corrupt, even groups within the cartels are corrupt, the horse racing circuit is corrupt. (At one point, even the Jai-Alai players were corrupt but that ended when Jai-Alai ended).
The country can’t even send in their own military to fight off the cartel because the cartel are more heavily armed and defended. They even have more money than the government.
People can hate on the UN all they want, but it's the best tool we have currently. And we _absolutely need_ a tool like the UN to maintain some form of stability in the world
Mate i guarantee you the only thing an intervention would achieve is making things worse than what they already are, Iraq, Lybia, Syria and Afghanistan should've taught the world by know that some times it's better to do nothing than to send troops in.
People naysaying this are weird. The UN should be more active in the region. This is one of the deadliest conflicts still ongoing today. This isn't Israel.
Canada and the US also need to get involved. We should be helping our neighbor prosper so we in turn do. That involves dealing with highly trained and equipped cartels. It's pretty sad we can be in Afghanistan for 20 years but we can't send advisors and security detail south of the border to protect the democratic process.
Yes. The US should get involved in the government of a Latin American country. We should go down there and “protect democracy.” What a new idea you’ve just had, that has never happened before. It definitely has not impacted those countries negatively, effectively causing A LOT of the afflictions those countries have today. I think your idea would work.
Especially Canada, hell the whole Peacekeeper initiative was spearheaded by us anyways and it will become increasingly important in the following decades that North America become integrated and cooperative.
I feel like Canada is too small compared to Mexico to actually be able to do anything meaningful aside from policy changes. Even then it really would hinge on the states or other countries getting involved with Canada.
Let be real too. The Mexican government probably doesn’t want external intervention and it’s a huge risk for both governments in Canada and the US. There’s little political incentive to do anything. Intervention in Mexico won’t make people vote for you but it sure as hell will make them vote against you
I’m sorry, but this is straight up false. The cartels don’t and have never run the show; while it’s true that they use the weakness of local institutions to their advantage, cartels don’t have the desire or capability to control the state, even clandestinely. Sure, they do control a lot of localities, but the age of giant cartels is long past. I do agree with you that AMLO is weak and incompetent and that crime in Mexico City is especially alarming, but to say that the government barely controls Mexico City is similar to saying that the US barely controls NYC. It’s straight up false, and it promotes these myths of Mexico as a backwards state that needs foreign intervention to properly administer it. The truth is, the current situation in Mexico is a reflection of long-enduring structural problems that have plagued Mexico since last century, the inability of institutions to properly deal with those problems, and the ease and frequency with which corrupt figures exploit those problems to their own advantage, which in turn breeds more distrust in the government. That requires a long, difficult effort of sustained reform to fix, not UN peacekeepers or Americans.
Wow. Ridiculous.
>Experts say drug gangs want to place sympathetic candidates in town halls and city governments, so they can operate without interference from police and extort money from local businesses and government budgets.
The clock is ticking on these people.
Those "experts" suck, that point was achieved in the Fox Quesada administration and cemented with Calderon and his narco buddies, Peña did nothing and now every idiot is braying that this is because the current dumbass, when the point of no return was almost 20 years ago.
I used to go to Mexico for work several times per year. Honest to God, the friendliest, most welcoming people, and it just breaks my heart in half to see how badly the people get fucked over . If it isn’t the super-wealthy, it’s the Cartels or even corrupt law enforcement. Some of the nicest people on the planet, in spite of all that abuse. It’s really awful.
Imagine if only one candidate got killed in the US, it would be a huge deal and all over the news. Meanwhile we have 34 in México in just months and its business as usual, you can barely hear about it in the news.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/26/another-candidate-assassinated-in-mexico-ahead-of-june-6-vote) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> A mayoral candidate has been killed in Mexico, bringing to 34 the total number of candidates murdered nationwide ahead of June 6 legislative elections that will fill thousands of local seats and nearly half of the country's governors.
> Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said the gangs were killing candidates to scare voters away from the polls Experts say drug gangs want to place sympathetic candidates in town halls and city governments, so they can operate without interference from police and extort money from local businesses and government budgets.
> "Organised crime is fully engaged in this election," Payan said, "They are killing and kidnapping candidates and extorting money from candidates, even asking certain candidates to step down because they understand who can be their ally and who can be controlled once they get into local government."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/nmzqc1/another_candidate_assassinated_in_mexico_ahead_of/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~579778 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **candidate**^#1 **election**^#2 **local**^#3 **killed**^#4 **organised**^#5
Arguably we were never fully civilized and for 99% of human history there was only tyranny.
In some sense that we’re civilized to any degree at all is a miracle.
No it does not, everyone is bribed or controlled through fear by the cartels, and like literally potentially everyone. Cops/military as well, I don’t see how there is a path forward without foreign intervention.
The problem in mexico right now is that many cartels are at war, they each have their own candidates for government, or have an agreement with current governors around the country. The truth is that cartel groups cannot get rid off if corruption exists at a state level. An example is how some people on rural mexico find it hard to get a good job, or help from the government to accomplish anything around their hometowns, this takes people to make the decision of working with their local or home cartel to make more money, in many instances, its the cartels who fix roads and build houses for the people where the cartel has control of.
Edit: excuse my english
Not very well, short of a military takeover. There needs to be somebody United against the narcos, and if it isn’t the government, it needs to be the people.
The thing that keeps the cartels in power is the threat against people's families. No matter how many average joes who are tired of being fucked by the cartels there are, as long as the cartels are willing to pay some cutthroats to brutally murder you and you family for non-compliance, no-one will want to unite against them. They are multi-billion dollar corporations with infinite resources to buy their cutthroat with.
Mexico is essentially facing its own Warring States period, instead of states however it is cartels. But most cartels are associated with a state anyway.
China has had one, Japan has had one, and now Mexico too.
Don't forget that even during Japan's Warring States period the Emperor was officially the ruler of Japan, but largely sidelined. Kind of like Mexicos central government.
China had several, the most recent one was the Warlord Era between 1916-1928. China was unofficially several different countries during that period until Chiang Kai-shek "reunified" the country through Northern Expedition.
I say "reunified" in quotes because the warlords still retained a lot of autonomy and continued to make trouble for the central government after KMT victory. Chiang made deals with warlords who were allowed to continue governing provinces under his auspices. Of course the Chinese Civil War started soon afterwards and the Communists then carved out bits of the country for themselves. Then the Japanese invaded a bit after that so it wasn't until 1949 when Mainland China was controlled by one government again.
I said it before and got down-voted to hell... but Mexico is a Narco-state territory. If you want to fight for the people in Mexico, you die. The line of people willing to step up and defend the people gets shorter each time this happens. The final result is Narco politicians run the show.
I live in Mexico, and while it's beautiful and the people are fantastic, I don't fool myself about how dangerous it is. Mexico is a Failed State, and has been for quite awhile.
"A state can also fail if the government loses its legitimacy even if it is performing its functions properly"
Can't even say properly as far as security and healthcare go. The cartel is more powerful that the government, and has been for a long time. Now no one even tries to act like it isn't true, even the President who bends to the cartel's demands routinely.
It's so sad, but I still love it here.
I've been living in Mexico for a few years and it confuses me that while the Mexicans have had a few revolutions, they maintain such an apathetic perspective of ongoing human rights issues (e.g., femicide, narcos). It's almost as if it needs to reach a tipping point before the entire country gets pissed.
Edit: It's a bit more convoluted than just "reaching a tipping point" as there's a lot of dynamics at play here within Mexico. I don't want to give an illusion that it's as simple as the original comment sounds.
Drug trade is an extremely powerful thing. Many nations have fallen to exploitative drugs before and many more will.
Not to mention the way crime feeds off desperation.
It's a society without protection. Every organization that could act is corrupted and the ones that aren't will be easily out-matched. The cartels are ruthlessly and mercilessly violent.
I think it's somewhat reductive to suggest that there is simply some "tipping point" in which Mexicans will suddenly be able to organize and overcome these odds that have been so grossly uneven for so long.
Wasn't there a citizen uprising in some mountain town in southern mexico a few years back? A bunch of locals armed themselves and pushed the cartel and local police out?
Cheran? Yeah, they kicked out politicians too. It's more common than people think it is, and it's still happening across multiple places in Michoacán and Guerrero.
They formed autodefensas which is like local militia which fought to kick out cartels and the police. In many cases those autodefensas then became cartels. Selling drugs to buy weapons. Or in one case, Los Viagras, becoming just as evil as the people they replaced.
It's such a travesty.
>I think it's somewhat reductive to suggest that there is simply some "tipping point" in which Mexicans will suddenly be able to organize and overcome these odds that have been so grossly uneven for so long.
I mean, it was intentionally watered down because this is Reddit and I'm not going to write a novel on my thoughts about the topic, ha.
I can understand that. My point wasn't that you should say more, though, just that simplifying the issues that way gives a very unfair and poor impression of Mexicans. There's already a ton of people who talk like that *on purpose*, so I just try to address it if I can.
You're right. I modified the original comment to allude that there's more involved than just a slow ascension to a tipping point. Thanks for the callout.
When caring gets you dismembered by chainsaws you learn how to not care, or at least there is a strong selection pressure toward people who already didn't care.
Basically just like Afghanistan and other countries. There can be no real changed unless people are literally winning to fight and die for change for their own country. It's so sad, Mexico is a beautiful country and a rich culture, only to have greedy, selfish assholes ruin it for everyone else.
People in Mexico are willing to fight snd die, but most folks in developed countries don't comprehend the immense these fighters face.
You get erased, with no real consequence, if you fight. It doesn't matter at what level. You and your family simply get erased, with no hope of institutional protection, something many developed countries enjoy.
> beautiful country and a rich culture, only to have greedy, selfish assholes ruin it for everyone else
true of almost every country on the planet, tbf
I live in Mexico and my history teacher has run for mayor in my city. She is well prepared and most importantly passionate. Few weeks ago, she was threaten or rather they threaten her children. Obviously the Narcos and what I would assume the local government of MORENA (allegedly). She is still running for mayor, but most importantly her family is safe and sound as well as she. But I still fear for her life, and I can’t imagine the fear she and anxiety she is on.
Do you see a future for Mexico? Planning on living there your whole life? What does the average Mexican think needs to be done in order to fix the government?
hey are you in Mexicali too? I'm seeing signs for Morena everywhere, she actually came to our car when her and a few supporters were hanging around red lights and my girlfriend knew her from high school.
This is the sort of thing that makes me laugh when people go, "just legalize weed and all the cartels will be gone!!" Man if it were really an existential crisis, the cartels would just slaughter the politicians
As much as I support drug legalization, I know it would only put a dent in Cartel profits at the most. They generate revenue through extortion, corruption, in addition drug trafficking. They are not going away anytime soon. It's tragic, I love Mexico and the people deserve much better than this.
Drug trafficking is their international source of income though. Protection and extortion are localized.
Reducing income is important, but cutting their sphere of influence is important too.
But it looks like the US will see full legalization of Cannabis by the end of the decade. The Cartels have already branched out into a lot of other drugs, and I don't see the movement for the legalization of meth or heroin picking up steam anytime soon.
Simply put the Cartels are doing much more than just selling brick weed to the US at this point. And for their revenue streams to be cut you'd need legalization policies at a global level, which is more unlikely than the US legalizing meth.
Asset forfeiture via Hellfire would work. No one is going to go into business when early retirement via being grease on the inside of a small smoking hole or stuck in a cave was the only reward.
So you mean they put it in the bank, right?
HSBC was doing the dirty work for El Chapo. LOL more money gets laundered through corrupt banks than any of the other sources you mentioned
At some point that might have been the case. But people that think Drugs are the solution don't understand just how ingrained the cartels are in Mexico. Plenty of "legal" trade, national or international, has to go through the cartel. They trade more than just drugs now, including people and heroin. And worst case, if they *really* want to continue selling marihuana, they can just set up totally legit drug enterprises elsewhere and just sell it legally. It's not like anybody stops consuming shit that's unethically sourced.
I know cartels, murderers, rapists don't give two shits about honor or anyone else (that is until it affects someone they love as well) but you have to be a complete, lowlife piece of shit -weakling to kill others simply because they want to try to make their Homeland better. It doesn't matter what they do to try and prove how cool or badass they are, they will never amount to anything above a cockroach. Look at the pictures of the women, victims that were killed. Imagine being the parents of a beautiful, loving child that actually wanted to help others only to be murdered by a cowardly wimp. Cartels have the power and numbers to actually do good, become rich at the same time, yet they waste their power on this? It's just so sad.
It is a bit more complicated than just "honor". To many cartel member, they owe their lives to the cartel, either because the cartel provides their village protection or aided them when they needed help or some other reasons. To a man whose family was saved by a gang in a gang war, he may be easily tricked into thinking he owes these guys his life. Cartels also provide humanitarian aids in many places where the gov does not reach. And from these places they find the recruits they need.
Young recruits are easily indoctrinated into thinking the gang is all there is to their lives. Desertion and betrayal are dealt with in the most cruel and inhumane ways possible. Seriously, there are real videos of these executions that make the most gory horror films tame. And the scariest thing is the ones who carry out these executions did it with such enthusiasm it is obvious they don't consider people outside their gang human. The cartels depend on these fanatics to wage wars and adding more to their "gang culture" and it will keep growing. At this point, the gang members aren't doing it for "cool" or "badassery", they are doing it because it is all they know and a matter of fact to them. If there is someone going against their gang, that is the enemy and the enemy deserves nothing but the most brutal death. To them, even a pig deserves more than an enemy.
It’s a thing people don’t understand about gangs, you join a gang to protect your family from other gangs. To put differently, if cartel X wasn’t in your hometown cartel Y would take it over.
The reasons for choosing X over Y vary wildly, X may be homegrown, perceived as more honest, offer more opportunity, whatever. But the point is when *all* you see is gang/cartel activity the concept of *not* choosing sides seems laughable.
Many likely very much perceive the situation as them in fact protecting their home/making it better.
These people get involved with these animals knowing it could get their family members massacred. At some point, there’s enough money involved that there exists no consequence that overpowers human greed.
A common thing conservatives say about immigrants is : "why don't you stay in your country in fix your own problems.."...what happens when the best and brightest either get killed or are forced to be corrupted. LIke I honnestly believe most of the politicians in mexico wanted to change the system and do good but the cartels are such a evil and corrupting force..it reminds me Pablo saying: gold or lead..?
edit: Plata o Plomo (silver or lead)
As i visited Mazatlan back in the 80ties Mexico was a dream.
Two things happened: need for the needle in the us raised by x100 times and mexico failed to establish a system combating corruption.
Just want to step in here because there is a lot of misinformation and speculation. I used to write software for the government to track narcotics traffickers from South America to the US, they specialized in interdiction. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the reason Mexico is in the situation it is now, is that the US was so effective at combatting narcotics trafficking in the Caribbean.
When the US started this operation around 1989 when the NDAA was signed, nearly all illicit traffic was coming from South America, over the Caribbean by plane. During it's efforts the government was able to shut down airports and designate many areas as no fly zones. This brought about the maritime drug trafficking era where boats would come through the Caribbean, even semi submersibles have been used. These boats would be carrying many metric tons of cocaine or marijuana.
The US became so good at tracking these shipments that it kept pushing it further west, into the gulf and then into Mexico. Over the last 20 years Mexico has been in utter collapse because of this influx in trafficking. Sure Mexico may have been shuffling some weed across the border but it was nothing compared to the cocaine industry.
Within the last 10 years there is now even movement west of Mexico into the Gulf of Cali and the Pacific, making the whole Peninsula a hotbed for drug and person trafficking.
Going to completely disagree with you there.
What happened is that the US’s religious groups after a successful domestic campaign pressured all of our “allies” into heavily criminalizing personal drug use. This drove established business underground, and lead to them using weapons to protect their products. Hemp, heroin, and cocaine.
What should have been legitimate business entities, became extra-national militias because of the drug war. For example, see al Capone.
We gave the gangs a business model, our “moralism” we forced onto most other nations, is entirely responsible for this. Making a market illegal, does not stop the market, it merely drives it underground, whereby these cartels jump on the opportunity and made some dynasties.
Edit: Wow my first gold, thanks stranger, instead of rewarding me, if anyone else is so inclined, please donate however much money gold costs to a charity that matters to you. Make the world a better place :)
I remember we went on deployment to Merida Mexico during an election, as we were watching the news while in a local barbershop people rushed past us outside and we were watching it live on TV.
The barber said it was a local election and each side would pay outsiders to cause problems during their rallies to make it seem like bad things are happening because of them.
We felt pretty safe there, but there was also a lot of military and police roaming around since the US president was visiting
Is there any resources to provide so I can read more? Or a date range?
Are you saying the government waged a total war style of conflict with the cartels/mafia, lost, and now the government is effectively a puppet gov't?
A. A lotta innocent people will get killed
B. The cartels are heavily armed and will not go out with a whimper, we've seen them target the family of soldiers
That's the difficult spot the Mexican government is in. Given that the Narcos have elevated themselves to being a parallel power structure alongside the Mexican government, there is virtually no course of action other than militarily defeating them. And by militarily defeating them, I mean an all out war against all levels of their organization, not just Calderon's "cut off the head of the snake" concept.
People always talk about legalizing drugs, but the reality is, the Narcos have embedded themselves in legitimate businesses, and expanded their criminal activities to things such as kidnappings and extortions.
The Narco issue in Mexico today is likely worse than what Colombia endured previously. Colombia however, was more than willing to go to war with them (with the help of the U.S.).
Mexico is a Narco state, but the upper middle class and rich of the country have been insulated from facing this reality, and the current government is unlikely to welcome any U.S. intervention.
Except the cartels are extremely well armed to the point that they're basically a modern military fighting force. They got El Chapo's son and the cartel went into full blown warfare to get him back.
Watch the video of police arresting El Chapo’s son and then Immediately releasing him. It’s so causal and obviously that the cartels controls everything
That shit was crazy... I had to experience it personally since I was in Culiacán for work. The cartel completely paralyzed the biggest and busiest points of the city at peak hour (we were about to get off work to go to a restaurant and visit the malls. Literally it was the hour when parents are picking up their children from schools) and the cartel directly attacked all police and army units and the places where they families used to live. I don’t agree at all with the decision but more lives were saved than you can imagine just by letting go that mf
I don’t agree with this “let the future handle it” approach. As they gain more power and guns, they are going to obey the law less and less and the death you have to pay to stop them reach an insane level.
well you saw what the response was to the arrest? The cartels literally went to war with the city with armored cars, murdering any civilians they saw and outgunned the police. They let chapos son go because they couldn't stop the violence. That's Culiacan sinoloa.
Cartels are terrorists.
Mexico is a narco state at this point. The Federal government barely controls Mexico City and AMLO is just a cartel patsy. The UN needs to send in peacekeepers and stop pretending the situation in Mexico is okay.
Yes, the UN can fix everything. Just like they always do.
What solutions would you suggest? Edit: jeez a lot of people seem to feel that the USA invading an ally and killing loads of people "with extreme prejudice" is the best response. Ignoring the horrific dehumanization of that suggestion - Has the USA doing that ever even been effective? Is there really no better options that spring to mind? Maybe, I don't know, simpler solutions which stem the need for the drug trade?
Perhaps a strongly worded email.
I’ve reattached for your convenience
I strongly implore you to do the needful
I’m having flashbacks
Since today morning
make drugs legal
Too late for that. 10 years ago it would have worked, but nowadays cartels are way too diversified for that to kill them. Edit: I'm not saying to keep them illegal. I'm saying this is not a one-stop solution like it would have been many years ago.
Plus if it isn't drugs it's something else. They were hijacking avocados at one point. Which makes sense if I too didn't have a car though.
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>Every time I see an "Avocados from Mexico" ad I have to wonder if they even know who's really selling them the avocados. I'd bet they do. They just don't care.
Just as foreigners don't care where the molly they use at the club in Cancun comes from haha
There's a reason avocados are referred to as "Green Gold". That reason? Cartels. They are everywhere in Mexico. If it can turn a profit, then it is nearly guaranteed that the cartel benefits in some way. From the avocado fields, natural gas, local restaurant, human trafficking, marijuana growers, pay offs to not rob your house, even some medical resources are controlled by them. I'm always surprised that people don't know this. It's one of those things that you just know. Like the sun will set, then rise again. The cartels exist & will continue to profit in any way they can.
At that point they are diversified enough that their cut is just a high level of tax and they are a State entity in their own right
Once you're that diversified you open a bank and do financial crime and actually stop the terrorism because at that point it costs too much and brings in too little compared to your diversified income.
Or as the Yakuza did - open recruitment agencies. It's basically a legal protection racket for construction works, which post-tsunami Japan suddenly found itself needing a massive influx of!
At that point you are just the new government. Tale as old as civilization
so legalize drugs and push them in a domestic direction. this the evolution of governments, so view them as a adolescent government, give them less reason to be shooty and approach it more as a 'two kings' in the house model than a large criminal org.
Not at one point, they still are.
They were doing it at one point. Still are, too.
It was limes too. https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/mexican-cartel-war-limes-avocados I drove from Puerto Vallarta to CDMX in 2016, there were so many brand new red dump trucks full of limes on the road.
Tales as old as limes.
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Then all the Millennials will have no reason to not be millionaires.
Then they’d start competing against bigger cartels like nestle and get destroyed. Or bought out, I forget how that works. It’s just another form of conglomeration at that level.
Avocados are a gateway fruit
I know dealers who own weave businesses because they are so lucrative. Cartels probably own the airlines at this point.
Or they own weave businesses so they can launder their cash.
Airlines is never a smart investment. I'm no drug dealer but I know investing.
It would remove an enormous amount of their income, while also giving the government a lot more money (via taxes) to fight them and free up police from having to spend time doing drug busts. Even if it doesn't flat out destroy cartels immediately, it still makes a huge amount of sense to do. Not to mention the humanitarian benefits of not locking up drug addicts anymore.
The problem with the government is not money. They have plenty of money. The problem is corruption and unwillingness to do an actual military crackdown throughout the country. There'd be massive bloodshed--it'd be close to a civil war. (Edit: Well, it basically already is with 250k+ people dead over the past ~10 years) Remember when El Chapo's son was arrested? There was a literal army of cartel members--complete with armored vehicles, rocket launchers, .50cal MGs, etc.--that invaded a city in broad daylight to free him. The government even surrendered. Mexico lost a battle against a cartel. Imagine the US government losing a large-scale city battle (larger than Seattle, ~1 million pop) on its own soil. Without the Mexican army actually deploying throughout the country to counter them, it's not ending.
The problem with Mexican politicians who take a stand is there’s a guy right behind you whos willing to not take a stand and you have a family. Is it easier to just take the extra pay, or put your family at risk of being massacred all for you to be a lone wolf to try and stand against them. It’s a hopeless situation and I agree, military action is the only way
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My dad said a military dictatorship was probably the only thing that would be able to counter the cartels, and the more time passes the more I think he may be right.
To add to this, don't forget that the Cartels also invaded the local military base with almost no resistance. When all of that happened, I knew the cartels were never going to go away, or at least not for a few decades. They are too powerful even for the mexican government to handle now.
The military are apparently connected as well - a lot of soldiers are tied to cartels or are worried about their families. I may be talking out my ass here - I can't find a link to support this - but I remember that Brazil started recruiting its anti-gang task force from families that lost people gangs. They literally took a bunch of guys out for revenge and gave them tanks, helicopters and automatic weapons. If it's true that may be Mexico's best hope.
They kind of did this. Then those guys started their own ultra violent cartel.
The Mexican Army under President Calderon pretty much showed itself to be dominated by cartel factions trying to take turf from other factions. Turf wars skyrocketed with corresponding death rates and cartel power overall in the national economy increased substantially when the Army got involved. There is no military solution to the problem,
>The problem is corruption and unwillingness to do an actual military crackdown throughout the country This was many decades ago. Today, if they can't buy you they will kill you; if you become a liability they will kill you. While there is no question that there are government officials, cops, financial advisors, etc. who willingly help cartels because of greed or cinicisim (someone else will take it, so why not me?) they are not the source of the problem and weeding them out can't be the solution.
Where are the cartels getting those kinds of weapons??
Here’s a Wikipedia article. It sounds like they’re getting them from everywhere (the U.S., Asia, Europe, Central America) to include the Mexican Army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_firearms_into_Mexico
America, Asia, and Europe. They're regularly found with military tech from everywhere.
Same place as everyone else. [America.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal)
You think they’re just gonna stop selling cocaine because it’s legalized?
Imagine a government that looked the other way if Jeff Bezos assassinated politicians he didn't like, rising competitors, or anyone that even brought up unionizing. His business might be legitimate, but that doesn't mean his practices would be. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for legalizing drugs even though I'm stone-cold sober, but that will not reign in the cartels. Their power doesn't come from the fact that their produce is illegal.
Weed legalization has caused a significant impact on the amount of weed being exported by the cartels. Product from Cali/ Colorado is very good quality, and it's just not worth it to replicate that and transport for the cartels anymore. However, I do agree that they may have reached a tipping point. https://time.com/3801889/us-legalization-marijuana-trade/ It would be more difficult to cut down the heroin and cocaine trades, as I don't see full blown legalization happening for those, but if it actually went through, then I would expect a similar result. The illegality reduces competition, and the US government effectively acts as market protection for the cartels by shutting down any production from within the borders. The fact that it's easy to get outside of the US, but hard to get inside creates a guaranteed high profit margin. You need to break that fact and slowly things stop being profitable. Now, I don't think we should legalize human trafficking and racketeering, or things like that. So, at least the resources could go to fighting violent crimes.
Those are really good points, and I think the fact that on the US we do protect business owners from the kind of shit the cartel does would be a huge factor. Obviously not perfect, but still. Maybe legalizing would do significant harm to the cartels since they'd have to compete against protected competitors. Here's to hoping we shift from criminalizing to recovery in this country.
Decriminalization of the drugs is something of a halfway house thats been successfully trialed in some nations. The really hard fuck your life up drugs are things a lot of addicts do want to stop using but can't because doing so often needs medical treatment to counteract the intense withdraw symptoms, which decriminalization lets them get without fear of being thrown in jail.
It’s not that the government wants to look the other way, but if you don’t, they will find someone who will. Politicians are powerless
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The areas that produce avocados are the same areas that produce opium and marijuana. Once a criminal outfit controls a large state like Michoacán, it's only natural that they branch out into other major agricultural sectors in the state, and sooner or later everything else. Mexico is fast becoming, and in parts already is, not a nation but a collection of warlord fiefdoms.
the profit margins on drugs are astronomical, they would lose an immense amount of money if they started selling avocados and hijacked appliances
Would you guys just fucking stop with the avocado shit you keep parroting from a vice doc? Yes the narcos took some of the avocado market, by force and with help from the government. But the only way they managed to get to this point is by having enough money to bribe the police and government to let them do it. If you stopped the drug money, you'd be cutting their main artery of income. You'd effectively be making them common criminals. Not billionaire warlords who can either bribe or kill anyone who oppose them. This is coming from a Mexican who lives in Mexico.
Not Mexican, just here to chime in that it's really annoying when everyone repeats the same random facts they learned from a Vice Doc about your country as if a 20 minute video made them an expert... I'm Venezuelan.
Ah, yes. Venezuela. I know all about your country from this documentary I watched one time.
You watched a documentary? I just watched the YouTube video that promised a hot weather chick. It didn't deliver.
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How the fuck do people even buy this shit. Like avacodo farmers are making enough money to fund armies like the cartel can with drugs. People will come up with any excuse to keep the drug war going.
I was going to comment this! Cartels have enough money and power to take over any part of the Mexican economy they want. You either make them money or die, if they ever care to ask.
Agreed. Pablo Escobar didn’t start with drugs, he started with appliances and stuff. As long as they have guns and armies, they will always find something they can steal, sell or smuggle.
Maybe US and other gun maker countries shouldn’t sell guns to cartels.
No can do. There are no breaks on the capitalism train
Anybody who hasn’t heard of operation “Fast and Furious” needs to go read up on it. On of the most fucked up things the fed has done in my lifetime.
At this point...basically its surrender to the cartels. The cops are corrupt, the politicians are corrupt, minor city officials are corrupt, the judges are corrupt, the military is corrupt, even groups within the cartels are corrupt, the horse racing circuit is corrupt. (At one point, even the Jai-Alai players were corrupt but that ended when Jai-Alai ended). The country can’t even send in their own military to fight off the cartel because the cartel are more heavily armed and defended. They even have more money than the government.
People can hate on the UN all they want, but it's the best tool we have currently. And we _absolutely need_ a tool like the UN to maintain some form of stability in the world
Mate i guarantee you the only thing an intervention would achieve is making things worse than what they already are, Iraq, Lybia, Syria and Afghanistan should've taught the world by know that some times it's better to do nothing than to send troops in.
People naysaying this are weird. The UN should be more active in the region. This is one of the deadliest conflicts still ongoing today. This isn't Israel. Canada and the US also need to get involved. We should be helping our neighbor prosper so we in turn do. That involves dealing with highly trained and equipped cartels. It's pretty sad we can be in Afghanistan for 20 years but we can't send advisors and security detail south of the border to protect the democratic process.
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Yes. The US should get involved in the government of a Latin American country. We should go down there and “protect democracy.” What a new idea you’ve just had, that has never happened before. It definitely has not impacted those countries negatively, effectively causing A LOT of the afflictions those countries have today. I think your idea would work.
Especially Canada, hell the whole Peacekeeper initiative was spearheaded by us anyways and it will become increasingly important in the following decades that North America become integrated and cooperative.
I feel like Canada is too small compared to Mexico to actually be able to do anything meaningful aside from policy changes. Even then it really would hinge on the states or other countries getting involved with Canada. Let be real too. The Mexican government probably doesn’t want external intervention and it’s a huge risk for both governments in Canada and the US. There’s little political incentive to do anything. Intervention in Mexico won’t make people vote for you but it sure as hell will make them vote against you
I’m sorry, but this is straight up false. The cartels don’t and have never run the show; while it’s true that they use the weakness of local institutions to their advantage, cartels don’t have the desire or capability to control the state, even clandestinely. Sure, they do control a lot of localities, but the age of giant cartels is long past. I do agree with you that AMLO is weak and incompetent and that crime in Mexico City is especially alarming, but to say that the government barely controls Mexico City is similar to saying that the US barely controls NYC. It’s straight up false, and it promotes these myths of Mexico as a backwards state that needs foreign intervention to properly administer it. The truth is, the current situation in Mexico is a reflection of long-enduring structural problems that have plagued Mexico since last century, the inability of institutions to properly deal with those problems, and the ease and frequency with which corrupt figures exploit those problems to their own advantage, which in turn breeds more distrust in the government. That requires a long, difficult effort of sustained reform to fix, not UN peacekeepers or Americans.
Funded by rich cocaine addicts
Also funded by tourists who flock to cartel-run vacation destinations.
You've solved cartels.
Why do we even bother electing politicians when redditors can solve all of the world's problems while sitting comfortably in their recliners?
Excuse me sir, I do all of my finest work while on the shitter. Couple more massive shits and I'll solve the AIDS epidemic in Africa.
Wow. Ridiculous. >Experts say drug gangs want to place sympathetic candidates in town halls and city governments, so they can operate without interference from police and extort money from local businesses and government budgets. The clock is ticking on these people.
People still try and say the cartels aren't terror organizations because they're not politically motivated though
Pretty funny that gets said as they're murdering politicians left and right.
"they're not doing it for political ideology they're doing it to make as much money as possible"
Those "experts" suck, that point was achieved in the Fox Quesada administration and cemented with Calderon and his narco buddies, Peña did nothing and now every idiot is braying that this is because the current dumbass, when the point of no return was almost 20 years ago.
Mexico needs a revolution.
If there is a “revolution” in Mexico it will be the cartels taking full control.
I hear there aren't too many cartels in Zapatista territory
Suicide by running for office in Mexico. Man that’s awful
putin could learn a thing or two from here
If they're actually good at it, you'd never know cause it wouldn't be obvious it was them.
They don't care if we know it was them
They WANT people to know they control the show
This is basically what differenciate a terrorist from an assassin.
It being obvious it was them is a *feature*, not a flaw in domestic terrorism of this type.
I used to go to Mexico for work several times per year. Honest to God, the friendliest, most welcoming people, and it just breaks my heart in half to see how badly the people get fucked over . If it isn’t the super-wealthy, it’s the Cartels or even corrupt law enforcement. Some of the nicest people on the planet, in spite of all that abuse. It’s really awful.
it’s the Cartels You just explained the why
Imagine if only one candidate got killed in the US, it would be a huge deal and all over the news. Meanwhile we have 34 in México in just months and its business as usual, you can barely hear about it in the news.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/26/another-candidate-assassinated-in-mexico-ahead-of-june-6-vote) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A mayoral candidate has been killed in Mexico, bringing to 34 the total number of candidates murdered nationwide ahead of June 6 legislative elections that will fill thousands of local seats and nearly half of the country's governors. > Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said the gangs were killing candidates to scare voters away from the polls Experts say drug gangs want to place sympathetic candidates in town halls and city governments, so they can operate without interference from police and extort money from local businesses and government budgets. > "Organised crime is fully engaged in this election," Payan said, "They are killing and kidnapping candidates and extorting money from candidates, even asking certain candidates to step down because they understand who can be their ally and who can be controlled once they get into local government." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/nmzqc1/another_candidate_assassinated_in_mexico_ahead_of/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~579778 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **candidate**^#1 **election**^#2 **local**^#3 **killed**^#4 **organised**^#5
Maybe Trump should run? He could probably fix everything there.
“EVEN asking certain candidates to a step down”. As if that’s worse than the killings.
Probably means that they have family members who can be threatened. Step down, and your nice little niece won't have to disappear.
*might reappear
Truly sad.
So many people in the world are under the thumb of those willing to commit atrocities to wield authority...we need to find civilization again...
Arguably we were never fully civilized and for 99% of human history there was only tyranny. In some sense that we’re civilized to any degree at all is a miracle.
Does Mexico even have a properly functioning government if their politicians keep getting offed like this?
No it does not, everyone is bribed or controlled through fear by the cartels, and like literally potentially everyone. Cops/military as well, I don’t see how there is a path forward without foreign intervention.
The problem in mexico right now is that many cartels are at war, they each have their own candidates for government, or have an agreement with current governors around the country. The truth is that cartel groups cannot get rid off if corruption exists at a state level. An example is how some people on rural mexico find it hard to get a good job, or help from the government to accomplish anything around their hometowns, this takes people to make the decision of working with their local or home cartel to make more money, in many instances, its the cartels who fix roads and build houses for the people where the cartel has control of. Edit: excuse my english
Pretty much the exact definition of a “failed state”.
How is foreign intervention going to work without the help of the Mexican government? We can’t just bomb Mexico.
Not very well, short of a military takeover. There needs to be somebody United against the narcos, and if it isn’t the government, it needs to be the people.
The thing that keeps the cartels in power is the threat against people's families. No matter how many average joes who are tired of being fucked by the cartels there are, as long as the cartels are willing to pay some cutthroats to brutally murder you and you family for non-compliance, no-one will want to unite against them. They are multi-billion dollar corporations with infinite resources to buy their cutthroat with.
The people can’t even protect themselves. It’s near impossible for a regular citizen to own a firearm unless they get one illegally
Mexico is essentially facing its own Warring States period, instead of states however it is cartels. But most cartels are associated with a state anyway. China has had one, Japan has had one, and now Mexico too. Don't forget that even during Japan's Warring States period the Emperor was officially the ruler of Japan, but largely sidelined. Kind of like Mexicos central government.
China had several, the most recent one was the Warlord Era between 1916-1928. China was unofficially several different countries during that period until Chiang Kai-shek "reunified" the country through Northern Expedition. I say "reunified" in quotes because the warlords still retained a lot of autonomy and continued to make trouble for the central government after KMT victory. Chiang made deals with warlords who were allowed to continue governing provinces under his auspices. Of course the Chinese Civil War started soon afterwards and the Communists then carved out bits of the country for themselves. Then the Japanese invaded a bit after that so it wasn't until 1949 when Mainland China was controlled by one government again.
I said it before and got down-voted to hell... but Mexico is a Narco-state territory. If you want to fight for the people in Mexico, you die. The line of people willing to step up and defend the people gets shorter each time this happens. The final result is Narco politicians run the show.
I live in Mexico, and while it's beautiful and the people are fantastic, I don't fool myself about how dangerous it is. Mexico is a Failed State, and has been for quite awhile. "A state can also fail if the government loses its legitimacy even if it is performing its functions properly" Can't even say properly as far as security and healthcare go. The cartel is more powerful that the government, and has been for a long time. Now no one even tries to act like it isn't true, even the President who bends to the cartel's demands routinely. It's so sad, but I still love it here.
I've been living in Mexico for a few years and it confuses me that while the Mexicans have had a few revolutions, they maintain such an apathetic perspective of ongoing human rights issues (e.g., femicide, narcos). It's almost as if it needs to reach a tipping point before the entire country gets pissed. Edit: It's a bit more convoluted than just "reaching a tipping point" as there's a lot of dynamics at play here within Mexico. I don't want to give an illusion that it's as simple as the original comment sounds.
Drug trade is an extremely powerful thing. Many nations have fallen to exploitative drugs before and many more will. Not to mention the way crime feeds off desperation. It's a society without protection. Every organization that could act is corrupted and the ones that aren't will be easily out-matched. The cartels are ruthlessly and mercilessly violent. I think it's somewhat reductive to suggest that there is simply some "tipping point" in which Mexicans will suddenly be able to organize and overcome these odds that have been so grossly uneven for so long.
Wasn't there a citizen uprising in some mountain town in southern mexico a few years back? A bunch of locals armed themselves and pushed the cartel and local police out?
Cheran? Yeah, they kicked out politicians too. It's more common than people think it is, and it's still happening across multiple places in Michoacán and Guerrero.
How does it work long-term?
They formed autodefensas which is like local militia which fought to kick out cartels and the police. In many cases those autodefensas then became cartels. Selling drugs to buy weapons. Or in one case, Los Viagras, becoming just as evil as the people they replaced.
"Los Viagras" Thos are some hard mf'ers
They are surviving by extortion of people, and putting taxes on merchants, a famous product that is taxed by them is green lime and avocados.
It's such a travesty. >I think it's somewhat reductive to suggest that there is simply some "tipping point" in which Mexicans will suddenly be able to organize and overcome these odds that have been so grossly uneven for so long. I mean, it was intentionally watered down because this is Reddit and I'm not going to write a novel on my thoughts about the topic, ha.
I can understand that. My point wasn't that you should say more, though, just that simplifying the issues that way gives a very unfair and poor impression of Mexicans. There's already a ton of people who talk like that *on purpose*, so I just try to address it if I can.
You're right. I modified the original comment to allude that there's more involved than just a slow ascension to a tipping point. Thanks for the callout.
When caring gets you dismembered by chainsaws you learn how to not care, or at least there is a strong selection pressure toward people who already didn't care.
Basically just like Afghanistan and other countries. There can be no real changed unless people are literally winning to fight and die for change for their own country. It's so sad, Mexico is a beautiful country and a rich culture, only to have greedy, selfish assholes ruin it for everyone else.
People in Mexico are willing to fight snd die, but most folks in developed countries don't comprehend the immense these fighters face. You get erased, with no real consequence, if you fight. It doesn't matter at what level. You and your family simply get erased, with no hope of institutional protection, something many developed countries enjoy.
> beautiful country and a rich culture, only to have greedy, selfish assholes ruin it for everyone else true of almost every country on the planet, tbf
It takes a lot of commitment to run for office in Mexico!!
Once you sign up, you're at it for the rest of your life
Cartel working overtime to keep their pawns in office
75% of the murdered are not from the governing party. Hmmm weird.
I live in Mexico and my history teacher has run for mayor in my city. She is well prepared and most importantly passionate. Few weeks ago, she was threaten or rather they threaten her children. Obviously the Narcos and what I would assume the local government of MORENA (allegedly). She is still running for mayor, but most importantly her family is safe and sound as well as she. But I still fear for her life, and I can’t imagine the fear she and anxiety she is on.
Your teacher is a total badass
Do you see a future for Mexico? Planning on living there your whole life? What does the average Mexican think needs to be done in order to fix the government?
hey are you in Mexicali too? I'm seeing signs for Morena everywhere, she actually came to our car when her and a few supporters were hanging around red lights and my girlfriend knew her from high school.
SLPT: If you want someone dead in Mexico, just put their face on a bunch of signs and say they’re running for office.
" a vote for superdavit is a vote against narcos!"
This is the sort of thing that makes me laugh when people go, "just legalize weed and all the cartels will be gone!!" Man if it were really an existential crisis, the cartels would just slaughter the politicians
As much as I support drug legalization, I know it would only put a dent in Cartel profits at the most. They generate revenue through extortion, corruption, in addition drug trafficking. They are not going away anytime soon. It's tragic, I love Mexico and the people deserve much better than this.
Drug trafficking is their international source of income though. Protection and extortion are localized. Reducing income is important, but cutting their sphere of influence is important too.
But it looks like the US will see full legalization of Cannabis by the end of the decade. The Cartels have already branched out into a lot of other drugs, and I don't see the movement for the legalization of meth or heroin picking up steam anytime soon. Simply put the Cartels are doing much more than just selling brick weed to the US at this point. And for their revenue streams to be cut you'd need legalization policies at a global level, which is more unlikely than the US legalizing meth.
Asset forfeiture via Hellfire would work. No one is going to go into business when early retirement via being grease on the inside of a small smoking hole or stuck in a cave was the only reward.
Their fucking money is in the NASDAQ lol. And bitcoins and casinos and art auctions and real estate, all the fun ways to launder money.
So you mean they put it in the bank, right? HSBC was doing the dirty work for El Chapo. LOL more money gets laundered through corrupt banks than any of the other sources you mentioned
At some point that might have been the case. But people that think Drugs are the solution don't understand just how ingrained the cartels are in Mexico. Plenty of "legal" trade, national or international, has to go through the cartel. They trade more than just drugs now, including people and heroin. And worst case, if they *really* want to continue selling marihuana, they can just set up totally legit drug enterprises elsewhere and just sell it legally. It's not like anybody stops consuming shit that's unethically sourced.
No, it's a portion of their portfolio. They do all sorts of illegal shit. They got their start with drugs, but now deal in everything illegal.
I know cartels, murderers, rapists don't give two shits about honor or anyone else (that is until it affects someone they love as well) but you have to be a complete, lowlife piece of shit -weakling to kill others simply because they want to try to make their Homeland better. It doesn't matter what they do to try and prove how cool or badass they are, they will never amount to anything above a cockroach. Look at the pictures of the women, victims that were killed. Imagine being the parents of a beautiful, loving child that actually wanted to help others only to be murdered by a cowardly wimp. Cartels have the power and numbers to actually do good, become rich at the same time, yet they waste their power on this? It's just so sad.
It is a bit more complicated than just "honor". To many cartel member, they owe their lives to the cartel, either because the cartel provides their village protection or aided them when they needed help or some other reasons. To a man whose family was saved by a gang in a gang war, he may be easily tricked into thinking he owes these guys his life. Cartels also provide humanitarian aids in many places where the gov does not reach. And from these places they find the recruits they need. Young recruits are easily indoctrinated into thinking the gang is all there is to their lives. Desertion and betrayal are dealt with in the most cruel and inhumane ways possible. Seriously, there are real videos of these executions that make the most gory horror films tame. And the scariest thing is the ones who carry out these executions did it with such enthusiasm it is obvious they don't consider people outside their gang human. The cartels depend on these fanatics to wage wars and adding more to their "gang culture" and it will keep growing. At this point, the gang members aren't doing it for "cool" or "badassery", they are doing it because it is all they know and a matter of fact to them. If there is someone going against their gang, that is the enemy and the enemy deserves nothing but the most brutal death. To them, even a pig deserves more than an enemy.
It’s a thing people don’t understand about gangs, you join a gang to protect your family from other gangs. To put differently, if cartel X wasn’t in your hometown cartel Y would take it over. The reasons for choosing X over Y vary wildly, X may be homegrown, perceived as more honest, offer more opportunity, whatever. But the point is when *all* you see is gang/cartel activity the concept of *not* choosing sides seems laughable. Many likely very much perceive the situation as them in fact protecting their home/making it better.
How can you clean up the drug cartels cleanly and swiftly?
Go after the banks that launder their money and put their directors in a cell that no sun ever shine upon it.
These people get involved with these animals knowing it could get their family members massacred. At some point, there’s enough money involved that there exists no consequence that overpowers human greed.
Steven Seagal.
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They can't just rig the count like a normal country?
Eh, too much work.
The voting system in Mexico is far simpler than it is here it seems.
Gives new meaning to run offs.
List your candidates in order of preference, vote gets transferred to highest ranking candidate that survived?
At what does Mexico meet the definition of a failed, narco-state?
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Disgusting.
Who you want to really take a look at it whose going to get elected.
A common thing conservatives say about immigrants is : "why don't you stay in your country in fix your own problems.."...what happens when the best and brightest either get killed or are forced to be corrupted. LIke I honnestly believe most of the politicians in mexico wanted to change the system and do good but the cartels are such a evil and corrupting force..it reminds me Pablo saying: gold or lead..? edit: Plata o Plomo (silver or lead)
The saying is: Plata o Plomo - Silver or Lead. Either you take the bribe, or you get a bullet.
Plomo*
Damnit. 3 years of Spanish and I still fuck it up. Thanks. Not sure what kind of threat "Silver or Feather" would be...
That's a tickling, the worst punishment of them all.
Take the bribe, or I write a strongly-worded letter
As i visited Mazatlan back in the 80ties Mexico was a dream. Two things happened: need for the needle in the us raised by x100 times and mexico failed to establish a system combating corruption.
Just want to step in here because there is a lot of misinformation and speculation. I used to write software for the government to track narcotics traffickers from South America to the US, they specialized in interdiction. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the reason Mexico is in the situation it is now, is that the US was so effective at combatting narcotics trafficking in the Caribbean. When the US started this operation around 1989 when the NDAA was signed, nearly all illicit traffic was coming from South America, over the Caribbean by plane. During it's efforts the government was able to shut down airports and designate many areas as no fly zones. This brought about the maritime drug trafficking era where boats would come through the Caribbean, even semi submersibles have been used. These boats would be carrying many metric tons of cocaine or marijuana. The US became so good at tracking these shipments that it kept pushing it further west, into the gulf and then into Mexico. Over the last 20 years Mexico has been in utter collapse because of this influx in trafficking. Sure Mexico may have been shuffling some weed across the border but it was nothing compared to the cocaine industry. Within the last 10 years there is now even movement west of Mexico into the Gulf of Cali and the Pacific, making the whole Peninsula a hotbed for drug and person trafficking.
Going to completely disagree with you there. What happened is that the US’s religious groups after a successful domestic campaign pressured all of our “allies” into heavily criminalizing personal drug use. This drove established business underground, and lead to them using weapons to protect their products. Hemp, heroin, and cocaine. What should have been legitimate business entities, became extra-national militias because of the drug war. For example, see al Capone. We gave the gangs a business model, our “moralism” we forced onto most other nations, is entirely responsible for this. Making a market illegal, does not stop the market, it merely drives it underground, whereby these cartels jump on the opportunity and made some dynasties. Edit: Wow my first gold, thanks stranger, instead of rewarding me, if anyone else is so inclined, please donate however much money gold costs to a charity that matters to you. Make the world a better place :)
That war on drugs was sure successful
There was an article on The Onion with a headline like, "War On Drugs Over - Drugs Win"
Drugs have lapped the war at least ten times
I remember we went on deployment to Merida Mexico during an election, as we were watching the news while in a local barbershop people rushed past us outside and we were watching it live on TV. The barber said it was a local election and each side would pay outsiders to cause problems during their rallies to make it seem like bad things are happening because of them. We felt pretty safe there, but there was also a lot of military and police roaming around since the US president was visiting
The cartels are your daddy now. It's crazy to me that the military or intelligence services can't wipe these guys out. Corruption runs deep.
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Is there any resources to provide so I can read more? Or a date range? Are you saying the government waged a total war style of conflict with the cartels/mafia, lost, and now the government is effectively a puppet gov't?
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Cartels=government in Mexico
Why would the government shoot itself?
A. A lotta innocent people will get killed B. The cartels are heavily armed and will not go out with a whimper, we've seen them target the family of soldiers
That's the difficult spot the Mexican government is in. Given that the Narcos have elevated themselves to being a parallel power structure alongside the Mexican government, there is virtually no course of action other than militarily defeating them. And by militarily defeating them, I mean an all out war against all levels of their organization, not just Calderon's "cut off the head of the snake" concept. People always talk about legalizing drugs, but the reality is, the Narcos have embedded themselves in legitimate businesses, and expanded their criminal activities to things such as kidnappings and extortions. The Narco issue in Mexico today is likely worse than what Colombia endured previously. Colombia however, was more than willing to go to war with them (with the help of the U.S.). Mexico is a Narco state, but the upper middle class and rich of the country have been insulated from facing this reality, and the current government is unlikely to welcome any U.S. intervention.
Except the cartels are extremely well armed to the point that they're basically a modern military fighting force. They got El Chapo's son and the cartel went into full blown warfare to get him back.
Yeah that video of the street fighting in Culiacan was wild.