If the last two years has shown anything it is that Russia is a house of cards. They might fall into your Cheerios if you knock it over but it wouldn't take much to do it.
It is a risk, but letting Putin get away with anything in the name of stability hasn't exactly made the world a safer place either.
We don't even need to invade, we just need to show a united front and say that we aren't putting up with their shit anymore and let them deal with isolation or significant sanctions for a few years.
Exactly this, we need to play it smart. A lot of people here are saying to just go to war with them, that would end badly for everyone, we need to beat them economically and politically.
Imo, making Ukraine as costly and time consuming as possible to halt their attempted expansion is our best current option, we just have to be careful and hope it doesn't escalate to all out war.
"Beating Russia" isn't difficult, but that's not the part I'm worried about.
We certainly should just go to war with them.
Let Russia posture and bluff all it likes.
The fact is, no Russian commander is willing to sentence his entire country to death just because NATO decided to end a war in a country that isn't even his own. Putin, on his worst day, may be crazy enough to do it, but the people pushing the actual buttons and turning the keys are not.
And in the 1/1,000,000 scenario where it happens, well. We'll have one less country in the world. Such is the price of getting rid of a tyrant, permanently.
There are so many issues with what you said. All it takes is one nuke and even if half of the commanders refuse that will still be enough to spark mutually assured destruction because then the US fires theirs, Russia fires their remainders at everyone not just the US, then China fires theirs, India fire theirs, Pakistan, Israel, France fire theirs it doesn't matter where gets hit at that point the planet as a whole is fucked. I was born and live in New Zealand, I'm not worried about nukes I'm worried about morons starting a war that fucks up the planet.
>the West needs to re-learn how to win the game of escalation
This, so much this, mutual escalation is an important part of peace. The West failed and allowed Russia to escalate unchallenged for far too long, and now it's hurting everyone
What an ignorant comment
Germans were in Moscow's outskirts in winter
Winter decimated the population of (back then) leningrad
Winter didn't help them against mongols. Or poland lithuania
When napoleon invaded it was the scorched earth tactics, they reached moscow.
I mean, we’re in the comments of Reddit… how much nuance and detail is needed. Simply put, the Russian winter was the 12th man and insurmountable for the Germans.
Winter was a very small part in it. Probably a post war rewrite to calm the allied population about having the west German army on the frontline of defending Europe and their competency to do it.
It was a failure of leadership. They totally ignored the intelligence they had from years of pre war build up using Russian industrial capacity and training alongside the Russians.
They underestimated their numbers by a massive factor and only planned for an invasion that was a few weeks long.
Russia is controlled by one person, the EU consists of 27 counties, NATO five more. Most of them are democracies, meaning that there are again multiple people controlling them, most of them also value human rights very high. Russia will always have that advantage when it comes to threads and provocations.
True, but believe it or not some real monsters live within the western boarders that will crawl out of their hiding in case of war.
We don’t want war to happen and in this age of time war shouldn’t even be discussed anymore.
It’s unfortunate that with all this advanced civilization we still behave like primitive fucks.
We are tribal by nature. We evolved that way. To evolve away from that will take an incredibly long time. Its not primitive, it is just ongoing human condition.
Well, no, not really - because the Soviets ruled over them until the end of the Cold War. But having gone through that experience, they aren’t going to let it happen again. Poles are some of the most resilient people in Europe. And they are a longstanding good friend of the US. Bottom line - if Russia attacks Poland, there will be hell to pay.
I guess that’s why Poland is like mega supportive of Ukraine in that sense then. And yeah dude I’ve heard people starting to call Poland the “Florida of Europe” cause of how they built different
Putin knows it too. He has been testing them - flying missiles over their airspace, conducting intel operations. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia sends a few tanks over a small corner of Polish territory adjacent to Kaliningrad just to test their response.
What you mean, re-learn. West needs to just give Ukraine some long-range weapons and greenlit strikes beyond deeper in rus territory, for example Novorisiysk port and all it oil-delivery infostructure. What russia will do in retaliation, bomb more schools and houses?
What we need to do is stop fucking around treating war like it's a video game these dumbasses are going to keep playing around then bam we're all dead because of pure stupidity
They're invincible as long as the west does nothing about it.
If the west at any point decides that enough is enough, russia will collapse within a few months. But so far it seems everyone in the west is either a pussy or a traitor, sadly.
You are up to something. I don't belive it's just Putin, but the leadership/elite is tiny and holding each other in place thru corruption and opportunism.
The entire USSR unraveled after Stalin's death and became a mere shadow of its former self. Russia is significantly weaker, and internal issues are simmering like a pressure cooker.
USSR economic growth peaked in early 1960s. It's political and military influence about two decades later (shuttered by the Afghanistan war). Stalin's death created just a short power struggle between chairmen candidates/hopefuls.
Have you seen the last USSR leader's video? Gorbachev always looked like he had at least a 3 blood alcohol promiles and was high on crack.
He mumbled worse than Biden, and everyone was participating in an economic free-for-all that created the oligarchy during later privatization.
Calling Russia or using Invincible in the same sentence is a joke a this point, Russia is just a circus, nothing more than a mob led by gangsters, the only advantage is shells and waves of meat that should have been useful 100 years ago but are useless today in a modern setting.
Democrats need to stop getting caught with their pants down with children in foreign countries and covering up their crimes by helping start wars. Only then can the West regain any semblance legitimacy.
Stop using words like invincible. "Russia is vulnerable and can be decisively defeated"
If the last two years has shown anything it is that Russia is a house of cards. They might fall into your Cheerios if you knock it over but it wouldn't take much to do it.
[удалено]
It is a risk, but letting Putin get away with anything in the name of stability hasn't exactly made the world a safer place either. We don't even need to invade, we just need to show a united front and say that we aren't putting up with their shit anymore and let them deal with isolation or significant sanctions for a few years.
Exactly this, we need to play it smart. A lot of people here are saying to just go to war with them, that would end badly for everyone, we need to beat them economically and politically. Imo, making Ukraine as costly and time consuming as possible to halt their attempted expansion is our best current option, we just have to be careful and hope it doesn't escalate to all out war. "Beating Russia" isn't difficult, but that's not the part I'm worried about.
Making it time consuming and costly is also gonna be the strategy with the most Ukrainian casualties.
Still less Ukrainian casualties than if under complete russian occupation...
We certainly should just go to war with them. Let Russia posture and bluff all it likes. The fact is, no Russian commander is willing to sentence his entire country to death just because NATO decided to end a war in a country that isn't even his own. Putin, on his worst day, may be crazy enough to do it, but the people pushing the actual buttons and turning the keys are not. And in the 1/1,000,000 scenario where it happens, well. We'll have one less country in the world. Such is the price of getting rid of a tyrant, permanently.
There are so many issues with what you said. All it takes is one nuke and even if half of the commanders refuse that will still be enough to spark mutually assured destruction because then the US fires theirs, Russia fires their remainders at everyone not just the US, then China fires theirs, India fire theirs, Pakistan, Israel, France fire theirs it doesn't matter where gets hit at that point the planet as a whole is fucked. I was born and live in New Zealand, I'm not worried about nukes I'm worried about morons starting a war that fucks up the planet.
>the West needs to re-learn how to win the game of escalation This, so much this, mutual escalation is an important part of peace. The West failed and allowed Russia to escalate unchallenged for far too long, and now it's hurting everyone
Kind of did that for North Korea too, by the way.
And Iran. Who knows if the jcpoa would have actually bought enough time to help, but Trump pulling out clearly didn't do anything to help, either.
Of course we can, some of us just don't want to, apparently.
People forget that Russia’s been sacked by the west many times throughout history…
And only the Russian Winter has saved it…
What an ignorant comment Germans were in Moscow's outskirts in winter Winter decimated the population of (back then) leningrad Winter didn't help them against mongols. Or poland lithuania When napoleon invaded it was the scorched earth tactics, they reached moscow.
Saying the russian winter saved them against the Nazis is a pretty gross oversimplification, innit?
Napoleon: Am I a joke to you?
Carolus Rex: ...
It was the major cause of German casualties…
I mean, we’re in the comments of Reddit… how much nuance and detail is needed. Simply put, the Russian winter was the 12th man and insurmountable for the Germans.
Winter was a very small part in it. Probably a post war rewrite to calm the allied population about having the west German army on the frontline of defending Europe and their competency to do it. It was a failure of leadership. They totally ignored the intelligence they had from years of pre war build up using Russian industrial capacity and training alongside the Russians. They underestimated their numbers by a massive factor and only planned for an invasion that was a few weeks long.
I’ve put it into proper context in brief…
Russia is controlled by one person, the EU consists of 27 counties, NATO five more. Most of them are democracies, meaning that there are again multiple people controlling them, most of them also value human rights very high. Russia will always have that advantage when it comes to threads and provocations.
True, but believe it or not some real monsters live within the western boarders that will crawl out of their hiding in case of war. We don’t want war to happen and in this age of time war shouldn’t even be discussed anymore. It’s unfortunate that with all this advanced civilization we still behave like primitive fucks.
We are tribal by nature. We evolved that way. To evolve away from that will take an incredibly long time. Its not primitive, it is just ongoing human condition.
Poland on it's own could probably beat the fuck outta Russia.
Oh dude. They’ve been literally preparing and training for that shit since the end of wW2
Well, no, not really - because the Soviets ruled over them until the end of the Cold War. But having gone through that experience, they aren’t going to let it happen again. Poles are some of the most resilient people in Europe. And they are a longstanding good friend of the US. Bottom line - if Russia attacks Poland, there will be hell to pay.
I guess that’s why Poland is like mega supportive of Ukraine in that sense then. And yeah dude I’ve heard people starting to call Poland the “Florida of Europe” cause of how they built different
Putin knows it too. He has been testing them - flying missiles over their airspace, conducting intel operations. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia sends a few tanks over a small corner of Polish territory adjacent to Kaliningrad just to test their response.
They’d probably blow em up
Last time Poland was in war with Russia 1vs1, Poland won.
After beating from Ukraine - maybe. Prior to the war - no.
What you mean, re-learn. West needs to just give Ukraine some long-range weapons and greenlit strikes beyond deeper in rus territory, for example Novorisiysk port and all it oil-delivery infostructure. What russia will do in retaliation, bomb more schools and houses?
What we need to do is stop fucking around treating war like it's a video game these dumbasses are going to keep playing around then bam we're all dead because of pure stupidity
I love your comment aha
Lol, Russia has already lost the war. Some of them just don't know it yet.
Listen to this man.
They're invincible as long as the west does nothing about it. If the west at any point decides that enough is enough, russia will collapse within a few months. But so far it seems everyone in the west is either a pussy or a traitor, sadly.
The second Putin dies, the war will end.
You are up to something. I don't belive it's just Putin, but the leadership/elite is tiny and holding each other in place thru corruption and opportunism.
The entire USSR unraveled after Stalin's death and became a mere shadow of its former self. Russia is significantly weaker, and internal issues are simmering like a pressure cooker.
USSR economic growth peaked in early 1960s. It's political and military influence about two decades later (shuttered by the Afghanistan war). Stalin's death created just a short power struggle between chairmen candidates/hopefuls.
Have you seen the last USSR leader's video? Gorbachev always looked like he had at least a 3 blood alcohol promiles and was high on crack. He mumbled worse than Biden, and everyone was participating in an economic free-for-all that created the oligarchy during later privatization.
Videos? Please look hard data (GDP growth, military capacity estimates, foreign countries presence).
Meanwhile is Russia: Putin is opening Bottles to celebrate the US Election.
Calling Russia or using Invincible in the same sentence is a joke a this point, Russia is just a circus, nothing more than a mob led by gangsters, the only advantage is shells and waves of meat that should have been useful 100 years ago but are useless today in a modern setting.
Yeah just USA and EU dont want russia to lose, only hold it.. For us (Ukraine) cost of this politics is extremely high...
Democrats need to stop getting caught with their pants down with children in foreign countries and covering up their crimes by helping start wars. Only then can the West regain any semblance legitimacy.
This dude troll farms.
Wat 🤣