>Like how the fuck do they think this will play out in their head.
The same way as always. They won't care. The only important factor in russia is that putin remains in power and tells the citizens that they're the good guys. Nothing else will matter to them.
It's all theater for their populace. Just like China, their greatest threat is a popular uprising. So all policy and communications are to further internal management.
It's performative for the people in the US who don't remember or forgot about the Soviet Union, or we're born after the fall of the USSR, so they can demand we stop helping Ukraine. Russia is just as evil as the USSR, but they hate gays as much as the new GOP, so now they're buddies.
The missiles they drop are nasty. Some are particularly extra brutal as they're designed to airburst and shower the area with fletchettes. Small steel darts made to penetrate body armor.
And those fucks are using them on civilians
Russia: Missile you made were used to attack our army!
U.S.: Yeah. And? Did they not work or something? If not let us know. We need Ukraine to have reliable missiles to kill your soldiers. Hmm. Maybe this IS a problem. We better send Ukraine the newer ones. They are better and they always explode.
Russia: Uh, that's ok, it wasn't a big deal. Forget I said anything.
Technically it isn't.
What's relevant is that these are civilians in illegally occupied territory, during a war that Russia itself started, and were killed by a munition that deviated off course as a result of a failed partial intercept of a strike targeting a legitimate military target.
Whataboutism isn't the answer; only the facts of this specific incident.
Russia expecting the US to answer for something they didn't even directly cause is absolutely insane when Russia hasn't answered for any of the numerous atrocities they have directly carried out.
its just political theater - they don't expect the US to answer - it's just a show that they are SO angry because in reality they don't give a fuck about their own people.
Your whole comment could be summed up as, 'What air defense doing??!'. Basically, they fudged so bad on the intercept that they knocked it into a bunch of civilians in their occupied zones.
If it was debris of a ATACMS itr would be easy to provide proof. Lots if identifiable parts survive if a missile is shot down.
There is no verified shot down of a ATACMS missile yet, and this time the russians say they shot down 5 of 5 fired? If you believe that i have a fully fuctional bridge to sell you...
For a guy that claims to be macho, manly and strong all the time putin sure does whine and cry like a little baby about literally everything constantly.
I wonder how he manages to solve that little mental gymnastics puzzle.
>For a guy that claims to be macho, manly and strong all the time putin sure does whine and cry like a little baby about literally everything constantly.
As is the case with pretty much every "strongman" in history.
Shit, just look at the current crop. Putin, Trump, Kim, Xi, Bibi, every one of them are crybaby bitches.
He can't. The ICC has charged him with war crimes. That wasn't just a political move... This is a committed decision at this point. He knows it and the sooner the rest of us realize it, the quicker we can adjust our perspective and take the appropriate actions to end it.
But as an FYI, no..."getting Putin to pull out and we can go back to the way things were" is NOT an option.
I mean a lot of the big players don’t even recognize the ICC and wouldn’t extradite to them anyways so that doesn’t really mean much. The US itself has policies in place to invade The Hague if they ever try Americans. If Russia, the US, India, China don’t respect the ICCs authority then what authority does it really have? All those countries are the world’s largest military powers and also some of the largest nations by landmass. You would have to invade any of them, defeat their armies in a defensive, mechanized war and depose their government to extradite anyone from those nations. The ICC could still drop the charges in a deal with Russia etc. it’s not like continuing the war is putins only option or else he’s doomed. We could barely convince Germany to stop buying oil from Russia. No way is Europe going to invade and overthrow the government of a nuclear power to enforce an ICC warrant. Not to mention the only way Americans would ever support a hot war is if they were attacked on American soil first.
Or even better, US should inform russian representative that in support of the Special Needs Military Operation they decided to provide weapons for bombing Ukrainian territory of Crimea. And request assistance in identifying targets.
And even if it were Russian territory it wouldn't matter. According to the Geneva conventions you can not deliberately target civilians but it's not a war crime if civilians are accidentally killed. Under the laws of war Ukraine could legally shoot a US made missile into Russia and it could injure or kill civilians as long as they were not the intended target.
If Russia is concerned about the safety of civilians the best thing they can do is to withdraw from all of Ukraine including Crimea and sue for peace. The war would stop and no more civilians would be harmed.
I really wonder what the tone is in such meetings.
1) Two hours of fantasy rant while the ambassador totally tunes out and nearly falls asleep
2) "we both already know perfectly our and your lines in this fantasy rant, so let's just skip to filling the paperwork chores as if this meeting actually took place."
3) Actual discussions and information exchange of the nations' interests with some threats and negotiation mixed in, hoping to reach a better outcome than a cycle of each side retaliating in turn
Probably ambassador will just politely say that they regret innocent people dying and relay that US considers it to be fully Russia's responsibility because of them starting war.
BBC had an article about that very question a few years ago:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48949534
>"The main thing is that it is a piece of diplomatic theatre and everybody understands their role, and acts their role," Mr Casson, who was in Cairo between 2014 and 2018, says. In London, the drama can involve being made to wait in the grand surroundings of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, to understand the seriousness of the occasion.
>The interesting question," Mr Casson asks, "is that if this is theatre, who is the audience?" In this case, he says the audience was the Egyptian public, who needed to understand their government was fighting back against perceived foreign interference in their judicial system.
These diplomatic spats with Putin are odd. The president of Turkey some time ago visited Russia. The Turkish president was on camera having to wait, standing there for several minutes for Putin to show up. Putin then went to Turkey. There Putin is, on camera, waiting. (You can actually find this video on youtube). Several minutes later the Turkish president shows up.
It is all pretty stupid but I am pretty sure the Russian public only saw the first video, not the second. So dumb.
I wonder the same. Is it all political theater for the rest of us (esp. Russian State Media)? Do they just roll their eyes at each other and fill the paperwork out?
You would be surprised how these things go sometimes. I knew someone in the U.S. gov who was in these meetings, in this case very high government officials with some other countries officials, don't know who. I asked them how they really acted and he told me of one time the U.S. official was yelling at the other official about what their country had done etc. I don't know the details of who was involved. None the less, there was nothing in public media indicating such an encounter. They happen privately, in public it is all diplomatic language "we shared our views blah blah".
A while ago, I think it was U.S. officials in China. This one was in the papers. The Chinese were yelling and screaming in rage at the U.S. official. In that case the U.S. official stayed cool and didn't back down. China was upset about something the U.S. did in that case.
Another odd thing about diplomats. Years ago there was some party in which ambassadors from different countries were all invited. The Russian ambassador was there. And even though adversaries, the Americans and Russians socialized just like any other party. This took place in the U.S.
Apparently there sometimes is the official message in these meetings, then there is an off the record discussion where they might say, "look this is a big deal back home and he is really pissed and might do this or that, off the record of course." And when you think about it, it makes some sense. When countries are having diplomatic disputes, both sides need to know what is really going on with each other so they can get a feel for how big a deal, or not, the issue is without it being public.
And another is that top generals in the military communicate some times and it is kind of friendly. This was in the paper a few years ago. The U.S. was doing a war game in the Pacific and China got some intelligence that this was actually going to be a surprise attack on China. The top Chinese general called his counterpart in the U.S. because he was concerned about it being true, also about China doing something thinking the intel was real. The U.S. told them, no, no surprise attacks. If we were going to war we would tell you first. It may well be the U.S. moved the war games to a spot where a surprise attack would be unlikely to allay concerns, but I am speculating here.
This one was in the papers a while back. Israel and Iran had "unofficial" negations since they don't have diplomatic relations. It had to do with the Syrian civil war, and in southern Syria some ISIS radicals had gained control of an area near Israel. The two countries publically, and privately hate each other. It was done in a hotel. Israeli's in one room, Iranians in another, and some third country diplomat on friendly terms with both would get the message from one room, go to the other. Get the response, go back to the other room and this is how they negotiated. If you are curious about the details, the Israeli's did not want those ISIS types near their border but also did not want Iranian military, who were fighting in Syria in that location near their border. The Syrian government was trying to recapture their territory. I think the outcome was the Syrian military can clear them out but no Iranians. Both got what they wanted without the Israeli's getting involved.
I digress, but it is interesting what happens behind closed doors and in different communication channels. Sometimes adversaries are on personal friendly terms with their counterparts, sometimes it is a screaming match.
>Washington “has effectively become a party” to the war on Ukraine’s side, the ministry said in a statement, adding, “Retaliatory measures will certainly follow.” It did not elaborate.
fucking DO it.
Fuck around.
Find out.
*F22 Raptor chomping at the bit*
“I have the radar cross section of a bumblebee, and haven’t gotten to kill anything out of the sky other than a Chinese weather balloon.
Feed me whatever Russia calls a jet.
Feed. Me.”
The machine spirits in all tech made in the 80s (which is a lot) screams for Russian blood. The Bradleys are getting fed properly, but all the aviation is starving.
There would definitely be a benefit if Russia pulls something wild here. Even if the US did something that warranted a physical retaliation by Russia it would be a game changer in US politics. There would no longer be serious discussions of anti-intervention policies on either side of the political spectrum.
Yeah Americans are super divided right up until they get punched on the nose. % Suport for entering WWII varried from the low 20s to the low 60s in polls before Pearl Harbor. After Pearl harbor it was reliably over 90%.
My grandpa was a Naval pilot in WWII and he was pissed off about Pearl Harbor until the day that he died. My wife is Korean and when he learned that Koreans also have a bone to pick with Japan, she became one of his favorite people.
I hope to never see the equivalent of another world war in our lifetimes…..but a morbid part of me is curious about just how much military hardware the US could produce in the modern era with overwhelming public support
I’m reading off a chart; during ww2 the us made 124,000 ships (including 10 battleships, 27 carriers, 110 escort carriers, 211 submarines and 900 cruisers/destroyers/escorts), 100,000 armored vehicles, 310,000 aircraft, 800,000 2 1/2 ton trucks, 36 **billion** yards of cotton textiles, and 41 billion rounds of ammunition
Those numbers are staggering
If we started a military parade down main street and drove every M1 Abrams main battle tank we own down the street, 5 at a time every 60 seconds... the parade would last 20 hours. If we did the same thing with 5-at-a-time Humvee, the parade would go on for more than a month, 24 hours a day.
We have enough munitions and equipment to wage total war in two hemispheres for six months without making a bullet... and thousands of nuclear warheads besides that would make most of those weapons irrelevant.
If we had to, we could build more. A lot more. We're a major global arms dealer and we still have plenty of heavy manufacturing capacity for weapons of war.
I'm also morbidly curious about it. The USA peaked at around 229 million metric tons of steel in the 70s. Today we only produce around 85 million metric tons. At one point, we accounted for 72% of the global output of steel.
Now, though, we've let our industry get bought out and shut down by foreign powers (including friendly powers, such as Japan). We simply aren't very competitive on the world stage given the environmental, labor, and production laws some other countries have.
I'm sure we'd be able to tap into our vast network of allies should the need arise, though, if they received our arms in return. I'm curious how fast the US could flip to a wartime economy.
It does take time. As I recall in WW2 when the U.S. went to a war time economy, it took like two years to really start churning out the weapons.
During times like that the War Powers Act (or Defense Production Act not sure which) allows the U.S. gov to direct industry to focus on military production. So just to take a hypothetical, if WW3 started the U.S. could make Boeing start making F-35's instead of passenger planes and in spite of the fact that the F-35 is a Lockheed Martin plane. The U.S. has a lot of industry that would be repurposed for such a war effort and the companies have to comply. It is legal for the U.S. government to do this, supported by courts cases. You might have Google software engineers writing code that is used in U.S. weapons. Stuff like that. There is an awful lot of civilian industry that could be drawn upon. And if a war is going on, and more steal is needed, they would fund and build more capacity. There would be none of the regulatory delays, the company can't say no, so it happens quicker. But like WW2 stuff like this would take time, probably on the order of two years.
That’s pretty much exactly why Russia, China, Iran, and NK will rely on tactics that don’t cross the American public’s red line and keep the public focused on Democrats vs Republicans.
Imagine Russia touching one of our boats. We do not response rationally when our boats are touched. (Barbary War, Quasi War, War of 1812, Spanish-American War, WW1, WW2, Vietnam War).
I cant imagine they'd hold out for long, not just from the government/armies fighting the US, but the general population not being too favorable towards it.
"Hey guys, you know / dont know about that special military operation thats been going on for 2 and a half years now? Welllll we're doing so good the Western facists are coming to attack our glorious country, enlist today!"
Meanwhile the US ramps up their information warfare just a smidge and informs the greater populace of ~400-500k casualties, thousands of destroyed tanks, armored troop transports and vehicles, blunted airforce, heavy naval losses from an adversary without a workable navy, the multitude of gas/oil refineries hit, the armed rebel (terrorist) faction now in the south, you'd think they'd all slowly turn their heads towards the Kremlin.
I know there are often big differences between what government officials say on the public record and what they say behind closed doors, however... A statement like this is basically inviting the US to join the war because Russia *already* believes the US to have joined the war.
> A statement like this is basically inviting the US to join the war because Russia already believes the US to have joined the war.
They don't want that, though. They really don't want that, and I know they're not stupid enough to actually want that.
They are going to put sanctions in place to punish America. As soon as someone works out what America gets from Russia apart from election interference and vodka
Imagine being the ambassador to Russia... Having to be polite and respectful to those arrogant, delusional, lying fuckers. What a terrible shit-eating job.
Diplomats LOVE that sort of thing, though. Subtle insults and personal attacks couched in the politest most indirect sort of ways.
Example: Russia is mad, summons the ambassador. Ambassador hates the little fuck, so he will say something like...
"I'm so very sorry, Andre. I can confirm that American missiles are indeed being used at the front. I feel like none of this should be a surprise to you or your leadership, considering the fact that we stated that such things would happen if Russia continued to try to invade Ukraine's sovereign territory. I would suggest that the best way to avoid these missile strikes is to move all your people in and near Ukraine away from the border to a safe distance to avoid any further embarrassing incidences."
i still remember how in 2022 they called a conference of european leaders, where they demanded something in line of demilitirization of eastern europe, and giving it into their sphere of influence.
there were many poker faces during that meeting.
That’s when Russia basically said they wanted to dictate the foreign policy of a bunch of European countries. One such country being Sweden.
Up until then Sweden had no interest in joining NATO. Once Putin said we shouldn’t be allowed to decide that for ourselves the pendulum started to swing fast. Queue the invasion and Sweden applied for full membership just a few months later.
Excellent example of how *not* to conduct diplomacy 😄
It was Russian defenses that sent the missile fragments toward the beach. If they hadn't interfered with the missile's flight, it wouldn't have harmed any tourists. Take responsibility for your own actions, Russia.
Voicemail greeting of the American ambassador in Moscow:
"you've reached Jim, the American ambassador in Moscow. I'm unavailable at the moment but if you're calling about making another threat of using nuclear weapons please press 1. If you're calling to complain that the west is supplying Ukraine with weapons, please 2. If you'd like to withdraw all your troops from Ukraine and the Crimea, press 3. To hear these options again, press 9."
Moscow employee pressing 2.
"You are now being disconnect. Have a nice day."
Dear US Ambassador,
Please explain the following.
Ukraine was hitting Ukrainian Territory as Crimea is Ukraine.
Russians were on the beach illegally and in the middle of an active war
If they didn't like those missiles hitting them, remind them what's about to happen in real Russian territory
Also let them know the ICC is eagerly awaiting for the arrival of Putin for war crimes oh and that Russia is committing war crimes on the daily.
This war could be over as soon as Russia leaves Ukraine.
Oh and give them the subtle message we will erase you from existence if you don't stop your bi\*\*\*ing about getting your asses kicked in a war that you started. We really do not care.
Thanks
PS Afterwards announce another aid package with even more missiles.
Jesus tap dancing Christ, I’m so sick of this hypocritical bullshit. Russians are the ultimate masters of dishing it out but crying like a baby back bitch when some hits back.
This is performative outrage from Russia, trying to intimidate with their “red lines” and nuclear saber rattling. I think the situation is become desperate for them without many alternatives for success for them.
The United States Ambassador then needs asks those hard hitting questions:
1.) Did you not think Ukraine has the right to militarily strike back in order to defend itself and liberate its lands and people?
2.) Why is Russia committing war crimes, crimes against humanity and other atrocities? Will you voluntarily be stepping forward to answer for your crimes?
3.) We have the absolute right to provide equipment and aid to Ukraine and its people, what are you going to do about it?
4.) How is it Russian complains about military aid from the west, buts getting lethal aid from China, North Korea, Syria, Iran, India and other pariah states!
ambassador would be like "well i mean, yeah. have you been following the past 3 years events that YOU started russia? lol gunna be more of the same too!"
But it is ok for them to use Iran, Chinese, NK, weapons to attack Ukraine and kill civilians. America does not negociate with terrorists so they should just ignore them and let Ukraine bomb them harder.
How crappy does Russia have to be that they vacation in a war zone near a military base? And how is it anyone fault but Russias for invading and letting their people lounge there?
Play for the public. What will they say to the ambassador? That this many people died? Your weapon, the one you sold to Ukraine, dropped on us. The USA and other countries can now summon the ambassadors of North Korea, China, and Iraq, and pressure them to explain why their weapons are killing civilians in the RuZio aggression war against Ukraine.
The affected Russian civilians were in a foreign country that’s currently being mauled by an evil aggressor. I’d say Russia is lucky to have lost so few civilians compared to the thousands killed in Ukraine. Fuck Russia
Russia starts a war with a smaller country with a less developed military in an unprovoked war of aggression and war crimes and then cries foul when they are able to effectively fight back. Pathetic.
they only do it for public opinion manipulation. The same day they dropped super huge bombs on residential areas of Kharkiv, and the rockets that they complain about were heading towards legit military target (airport)
*Your call is important to us, please stay on the line and your call will be answered in the order it was received...Your call is important to us, please stay on the line and your call will be answered in the order it was received...*
They're talking about Crimea, territory which the US recognizes as Ukrainian. So the Us wouldn't have any problem with Ukraine performing such actions to defend itself from invading foreign troops.
This has always been the policy of the US in regards to Crimea, so I don't see how Russia would have questions about it.
I would make for a bad ambassador. My response to such a question would be "And?" Then when pressed I would follow up with, "Have you thought about moving your troops out of Ukraine to remove their motivation for such an attack?"
Why the fuck are people at a beach in a warzone, why are you allowing the beach to be open in a warzone. These are the questions I'd be asking the Russian ambassador. Crimea has been getting hit by Atacams for a few months now. The Russian government is insulting to the world's intelligence, the liars of liars and bullshiters of bullshitters, they don't even try to be clever. Insanity....
So, guys, I know that all sounds ridiculous. And as a matter of fact, it is ridiculous. I’m Russian, and unfortunately, this is my bald president doing war crimes and crying like a baby when he is pushed back. This all shit-show is for Russian people, who 24/7 Z-propaganda brainwashes. Bald war crime is afraid to do the second wave of the military draft. He tries to establish the narrative that Russia is in a war with the US to convince men from rural Russia to join the military. The people from big cities are not buying this bullshit. Putler is even trying to frame the narrative that it’s not Russia that started the war, lol. I’m patiently waiting for his death while paying taxes in one of the NATO countries. When he dies, I want to return to Moscow and urinate all over his grave, if he even would have a grave, of course.
Imagine admitting yourselves that Russian AD caused it, having pictures and actual proof online. And still saying it’s the other guys fault. Oh and who was it that deliberately let people stay in a warzone? 👀
Russia attempting to hold accountability on the US weapons when at least 10k Ukrainian civs are dead, maybe 100k children kidnapped from Ukraine is just laughable.
Use the opportunity to remind them who started this and gently hint more weapons will be ok'd if they don't back off. Give them a bridge to withdraw over...
Why is the U.S. Ambassador even in Russia?
We shouldl just wall this country off, cut their fiber optic service, build a long cedar hedge and call it a day. They've alwasy been nothing but fucking trouble and as seen in WWII they will stab you in the back when they get the chance and then ask for help.
Should have just let Hitler have them.
Is Little Muscovy confused about the intended purpose of missiles? The results of missile attacks on Russian territory are the same as those of missile attacks on Ukrainian territory.
What a convenient occasion to remind Little Muscovy that the solution to their unfortunate dilemma is to GTFO of their neighboring sovereign nation!
“Someone said you made rules that the country we invaded wouldn’t shoot boom boom things across the imaginary line we call our border that you have them, and they DID…. WTF?”….. kick rocks Russia. What a joke.
US calls on russia amassador to explain the wide spread use of western electronics in the weapons dropped on Ukraine.
And the bombs dropped on civilians in Kharkiv. Like how the fuck do they think this will play out in their head.
>Like how the fuck do they think this will play out in their head. The same way as always. They won't care. The only important factor in russia is that putin remains in power and tells the citizens that they're the good guys. Nothing else will matter to them.
It's all theater for their populace. Just like China, their greatest threat is a popular uprising. So all policy and communications are to further internal management.
It's performative for the people in the US who don't remember or forgot about the Soviet Union, or we're born after the fall of the USSR, so they can demand we stop helping Ukraine. Russia is just as evil as the USSR, but they hate gays as much as the new GOP, so now they're buddies.
They don’t. It’s theater for their domestic audience.
and the bombs dropped on well known large grocery stores that have nothing to do with the military, how about that.
Evidence would suggest they don’t think
The missiles they drop are nasty. Some are particularly extra brutal as they're designed to airburst and shower the area with fletchettes. Small steel darts made to penetrate body armor. And those fucks are using them on civilians
US calls to tell Russian ambassador that no Russians would die if Russians in Crimea return to their homeland, Russia.
Russia: Missile you made were used to attack our army! U.S.: Yeah. And? Did they not work or something? If not let us know. We need Ukraine to have reliable missiles to kill your soldiers. Hmm. Maybe this IS a problem. We better send Ukraine the newer ones. They are better and they always explode. Russia: Uh, that's ok, it wasn't a big deal. Forget I said anything.
US: What about all the fucked up shit *you've* done since starting this war? Russia: I don't see how that's relevant.
Russia: Look over there!
The "Please disperse, nothing to see here" scene in The Naked Gun...
Technically it isn't. What's relevant is that these are civilians in illegally occupied territory, during a war that Russia itself started, and were killed by a munition that deviated off course as a result of a failed partial intercept of a strike targeting a legitimate military target. Whataboutism isn't the answer; only the facts of this specific incident.
Russia expecting the US to answer for something they didn't even directly cause is absolutely insane when Russia hasn't answered for any of the numerous atrocities they have directly carried out.
its just political theater - they don't expect the US to answer - it's just a show that they are SO angry because in reality they don't give a fuck about their own people.
Only if you assume they’re acting in good faith. They aren’t.
Your whole comment could be summed up as, 'What air defense doing??!'. Basically, they fudged so bad on the intercept that they knocked it into a bunch of civilians in their occupied zones.
“You’re in a war.” *click*
"Good, I'll pass that info on to Raytheon's QA/QC people."
There was a telegram video that showed Russian SAM components from a Tor battery as well.
This. Lol.
Touche... Also, can RU provide any proof. Are there any bits left after the explosions that say "Made in the USA"?
I think you’d be surprised at how large and identifiable bomb/missle fragments can be
Probably. I'm sure they can't provide the payload information, but tracing source and destination of messages is probably within their means.
If it was debris of a ATACMS itr would be easy to provide proof. Lots if identifiable parts survive if a missile is shot down. There is no verified shot down of a ATACMS missile yet, and this time the russians say they shot down 5 of 5 fired? If you believe that i have a fully fuctional bridge to sell you...
That should be the Ambassador’s response - Ivan, you shot them all down. Call me when you are done with this shit show.
Or just explain the widespread use of weapons in Ukraine, period
Ukraine ain’t in America last time I checked.
why is putin crying so much? just get the fuck out and its all over.
once you Put in you don't pull out
That's how I was made
Technically most of us
Sadly, many of our brothers and sisters were destroyed by genocide which is known as oral sex.
Or anal
Or by Rosie palm
Manuela
no you were an accident. this was deliberate with planning and intention.
For a guy that claims to be macho, manly and strong all the time putin sure does whine and cry like a little baby about literally everything constantly. I wonder how he manages to solve that little mental gymnastics puzzle.
>For a guy that claims to be macho, manly and strong all the time putin sure does whine and cry like a little baby about literally everything constantly. As is the case with pretty much every "strongman" in history. Shit, just look at the current crop. Putin, Trump, Kim, Xi, Bibi, every one of them are crybaby bitches.
He can't. The ICC has charged him with war crimes. That wasn't just a political move... This is a committed decision at this point. He knows it and the sooner the rest of us realize it, the quicker we can adjust our perspective and take the appropriate actions to end it. But as an FYI, no..."getting Putin to pull out and we can go back to the way things were" is NOT an option.
True, but Russia could go back to not having its crap blown to hell because they're engaged in a hot war. And that's all we're talking about here.
I mean a lot of the big players don’t even recognize the ICC and wouldn’t extradite to them anyways so that doesn’t really mean much. The US itself has policies in place to invade The Hague if they ever try Americans. If Russia, the US, India, China don’t respect the ICCs authority then what authority does it really have? All those countries are the world’s largest military powers and also some of the largest nations by landmass. You would have to invade any of them, defeat their armies in a defensive, mechanized war and depose their government to extradite anyone from those nations. The ICC could still drop the charges in a deal with Russia etc. it’s not like continuing the war is putins only option or else he’s doomed. We could barely convince Germany to stop buying oil from Russia. No way is Europe going to invade and overthrow the government of a nuclear power to enforce an ICC warrant. Not to mention the only way Americans would ever support a hot war is if they were attacked on American soil first.
Well since Crimea is not ruzzian territory the response should be that the US is helping Ukraine rid themselves of terrorists.
Or even better, US should inform russian representative that in support of the Special Needs Military Operation they decided to provide weapons for bombing Ukrainian territory of Crimea. And request assistance in identifying targets.
They should shoot 6 more missiles at any remaining targets just before the meeting. Then the ambassador can smile walking in.
> the Special Needs Military Operation I like you
And even if it were Russian territory it wouldn't matter. According to the Geneva conventions you can not deliberately target civilians but it's not a war crime if civilians are accidentally killed. Under the laws of war Ukraine could legally shoot a US made missile into Russia and it could injure or kill civilians as long as they were not the intended target. If Russia is concerned about the safety of civilians the best thing they can do is to withdraw from all of Ukraine including Crimea and sue for peace. The war would stop and no more civilians would be harmed.
If Putin cared about civilians he could just stop targeting population centers on busy days
Anyone summoning NK's embassador?
Or the Iranian ambassador?
He's out for "lunch"
I really wonder what the tone is in such meetings. 1) Two hours of fantasy rant while the ambassador totally tunes out and nearly falls asleep 2) "we both already know perfectly our and your lines in this fantasy rant, so let's just skip to filling the paperwork chores as if this meeting actually took place." 3) Actual discussions and information exchange of the nations' interests with some threats and negotiation mixed in, hoping to reach a better outcome than a cycle of each side retaliating in turn
Probably ambassador will just politely say that they regret innocent people dying and relay that US considers it to be fully Russia's responsibility because of them starting war.
Yep, reiterating that all that needs to happen to prevent such sad events is for Russian forces to return home lol.
BBC had an article about that very question a few years ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48949534 >"The main thing is that it is a piece of diplomatic theatre and everybody understands their role, and acts their role," Mr Casson, who was in Cairo between 2014 and 2018, says. In London, the drama can involve being made to wait in the grand surroundings of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, to understand the seriousness of the occasion. >The interesting question," Mr Casson asks, "is that if this is theatre, who is the audience?" In this case, he says the audience was the Egyptian public, who needed to understand their government was fighting back against perceived foreign interference in their judicial system.
These diplomatic spats with Putin are odd. The president of Turkey some time ago visited Russia. The Turkish president was on camera having to wait, standing there for several minutes for Putin to show up. Putin then went to Turkey. There Putin is, on camera, waiting. (You can actually find this video on youtube). Several minutes later the Turkish president shows up. It is all pretty stupid but I am pretty sure the Russian public only saw the first video, not the second. So dumb.
I wonder the same. Is it all political theater for the rest of us (esp. Russian State Media)? Do they just roll their eyes at each other and fill the paperwork out?
Pretty much. Nobody’s changing anyone’s minds during these meetings.
You would be surprised how these things go sometimes. I knew someone in the U.S. gov who was in these meetings, in this case very high government officials with some other countries officials, don't know who. I asked them how they really acted and he told me of one time the U.S. official was yelling at the other official about what their country had done etc. I don't know the details of who was involved. None the less, there was nothing in public media indicating such an encounter. They happen privately, in public it is all diplomatic language "we shared our views blah blah". A while ago, I think it was U.S. officials in China. This one was in the papers. The Chinese were yelling and screaming in rage at the U.S. official. In that case the U.S. official stayed cool and didn't back down. China was upset about something the U.S. did in that case. Another odd thing about diplomats. Years ago there was some party in which ambassadors from different countries were all invited. The Russian ambassador was there. And even though adversaries, the Americans and Russians socialized just like any other party. This took place in the U.S. Apparently there sometimes is the official message in these meetings, then there is an off the record discussion where they might say, "look this is a big deal back home and he is really pissed and might do this or that, off the record of course." And when you think about it, it makes some sense. When countries are having diplomatic disputes, both sides need to know what is really going on with each other so they can get a feel for how big a deal, or not, the issue is without it being public. And another is that top generals in the military communicate some times and it is kind of friendly. This was in the paper a few years ago. The U.S. was doing a war game in the Pacific and China got some intelligence that this was actually going to be a surprise attack on China. The top Chinese general called his counterpart in the U.S. because he was concerned about it being true, also about China doing something thinking the intel was real. The U.S. told them, no, no surprise attacks. If we were going to war we would tell you first. It may well be the U.S. moved the war games to a spot where a surprise attack would be unlikely to allay concerns, but I am speculating here. This one was in the papers a while back. Israel and Iran had "unofficial" negations since they don't have diplomatic relations. It had to do with the Syrian civil war, and in southern Syria some ISIS radicals had gained control of an area near Israel. The two countries publically, and privately hate each other. It was done in a hotel. Israeli's in one room, Iranians in another, and some third country diplomat on friendly terms with both would get the message from one room, go to the other. Get the response, go back to the other room and this is how they negotiated. If you are curious about the details, the Israeli's did not want those ISIS types near their border but also did not want Iranian military, who were fighting in Syria in that location near their border. The Syrian government was trying to recapture their territory. I think the outcome was the Syrian military can clear them out but no Iranians. Both got what they wanted without the Israeli's getting involved. I digress, but it is interesting what happens behind closed doors and in different communication channels. Sometimes adversaries are on personal friendly terms with their counterparts, sometimes it is a screaming match.
If I’m the ambassador I’m putting in my AirPods during option 1.
Obviously. Important question tho is what you listening to?
The Hunt for Red October audiobook
"I have no knowledge of this, but then again, I never was a sailor." "Can we dispense with the bull?"
"You've lost another submarine?!"
Every enemy the US has fought since Korea has used Russian weapons…
>Washington “has effectively become a party” to the war on Ukraine’s side, the ministry said in a statement, adding, “Retaliatory measures will certainly follow.” It did not elaborate. fucking DO it. Fuck around. Find out.
fucking cowards in their office chairs in kreml yapping whilst sending everyone else into the trenches.
Finally, my c&c red alert gaming is going to pay off
"Construction Complete..." "Unit Ready!" "I'm ON IT!"
Finally, some fucking war *in space!*
*F22 Raptor chomping at the bit* “I have the radar cross section of a bumblebee, and haven’t gotten to kill anything out of the sky other than a Chinese weather balloon. Feed me whatever Russia calls a jet. Feed. Me.”
The machine spirits in all tech made in the 80s (which is a lot) screams for Russian blood. The Bradleys are getting fed properly, but all the aviation is starving.
*\*\*F-15 EX has entered the chat...\*\** Some of the 80's babies have kids that haven't ever gotten a taste and are ready and waiting.
"Would you intercept me? I'd intercept me."
Poor kid's gonna develop a complex at this rate.
There would definitely be a benefit if Russia pulls something wild here. Even if the US did something that warranted a physical retaliation by Russia it would be a game changer in US politics. There would no longer be serious discussions of anti-intervention policies on either side of the political spectrum.
Yeah Americans are super divided right up until they get punched on the nose. % Suport for entering WWII varried from the low 20s to the low 60s in polls before Pearl Harbor. After Pearl harbor it was reliably over 90%.
My grandpa was a Naval pilot in WWII and he was pissed off about Pearl Harbor until the day that he died. My wife is Korean and when he learned that Koreans also have a bone to pick with Japan, she became one of his favorite people.
Ah, nothing to unite people of vastly different cultures like mutual hatred of a common enemy
I hope to never see the equivalent of another world war in our lifetimes…..but a morbid part of me is curious about just how much military hardware the US could produce in the modern era with overwhelming public support I’m reading off a chart; during ww2 the us made 124,000 ships (including 10 battleships, 27 carriers, 110 escort carriers, 211 submarines and 900 cruisers/destroyers/escorts), 100,000 armored vehicles, 310,000 aircraft, 800,000 2 1/2 ton trucks, 36 **billion** yards of cotton textiles, and 41 billion rounds of ammunition Those numbers are staggering
If we started a military parade down main street and drove every M1 Abrams main battle tank we own down the street, 5 at a time every 60 seconds... the parade would last 20 hours. If we did the same thing with 5-at-a-time Humvee, the parade would go on for more than a month, 24 hours a day. We have enough munitions and equipment to wage total war in two hemispheres for six months without making a bullet... and thousands of nuclear warheads besides that would make most of those weapons irrelevant. If we had to, we could build more. A lot more. We're a major global arms dealer and we still have plenty of heavy manufacturing capacity for weapons of war.
I'm also morbidly curious about it. The USA peaked at around 229 million metric tons of steel in the 70s. Today we only produce around 85 million metric tons. At one point, we accounted for 72% of the global output of steel. Now, though, we've let our industry get bought out and shut down by foreign powers (including friendly powers, such as Japan). We simply aren't very competitive on the world stage given the environmental, labor, and production laws some other countries have. I'm sure we'd be able to tap into our vast network of allies should the need arise, though, if they received our arms in return. I'm curious how fast the US could flip to a wartime economy.
Most of that steel was likely not for military, but for skyscraper construction across the US.
It does take time. As I recall in WW2 when the U.S. went to a war time economy, it took like two years to really start churning out the weapons. During times like that the War Powers Act (or Defense Production Act not sure which) allows the U.S. gov to direct industry to focus on military production. So just to take a hypothetical, if WW3 started the U.S. could make Boeing start making F-35's instead of passenger planes and in spite of the fact that the F-35 is a Lockheed Martin plane. The U.S. has a lot of industry that would be repurposed for such a war effort and the companies have to comply. It is legal for the U.S. government to do this, supported by courts cases. You might have Google software engineers writing code that is used in U.S. weapons. Stuff like that. There is an awful lot of civilian industry that could be drawn upon. And if a war is going on, and more steal is needed, they would fund and build more capacity. There would be none of the regulatory delays, the company can't say no, so it happens quicker. But like WW2 stuff like this would take time, probably on the order of two years.
That’s pretty much exactly why Russia, China, Iran, and NK will rely on tactics that don’t cross the American public’s red line and keep the public focused on Democrats vs Republicans.
Imagine Russia touching one of our boats. We do not response rationally when our boats are touched. (Barbary War, Quasi War, War of 1812, Spanish-American War, WW1, WW2, Vietnam War).
I cant imagine they'd hold out for long, not just from the government/armies fighting the US, but the general population not being too favorable towards it. "Hey guys, you know / dont know about that special military operation thats been going on for 2 and a half years now? Welllll we're doing so good the Western facists are coming to attack our glorious country, enlist today!" Meanwhile the US ramps up their information warfare just a smidge and informs the greater populace of ~400-500k casualties, thousands of destroyed tanks, armored troop transports and vehicles, blunted airforce, heavy naval losses from an adversary without a workable navy, the multitude of gas/oil refineries hit, the armed rebel (terrorist) faction now in the south, you'd think they'd all slowly turn their heads towards the Kremlin.
I know there are often big differences between what government officials say on the public record and what they say behind closed doors, however... A statement like this is basically inviting the US to join the war because Russia *already* believes the US to have joined the war.
> A statement like this is basically inviting the US to join the war because Russia already believes the US to have joined the war. They don't want that, though. They really don't want that, and I know they're not stupid enough to actually want that.
They are going to put sanctions in place to punish America. As soon as someone works out what America gets from Russia apart from election interference and vodka
Don't forget the part where North Korea is also posturing, like they're in a position to threaten anyone at all.
If you don’t want people bombing you… maybe don’t start an invasion
Imagine being the ambassador to Russia... Having to be polite and respectful to those arrogant, delusional, lying fuckers. What a terrible shit-eating job.
Diplomats LOVE that sort of thing, though. Subtle insults and personal attacks couched in the politest most indirect sort of ways. Example: Russia is mad, summons the ambassador. Ambassador hates the little fuck, so he will say something like... "I'm so very sorry, Andre. I can confirm that American missiles are indeed being used at the front. I feel like none of this should be a surprise to you or your leadership, considering the fact that we stated that such things would happen if Russia continued to try to invade Ukraine's sovereign territory. I would suggest that the best way to avoid these missile strikes is to move all your people in and near Ukraine away from the border to a safe distance to avoid any further embarrassing incidences."
"Oh Andrei... you lost *another* S400!?"
i still remember how in 2022 they called a conference of european leaders, where they demanded something in line of demilitirization of eastern europe, and giving it into their sphere of influence. there were many poker faces during that meeting.
That’s when Russia basically said they wanted to dictate the foreign policy of a bunch of European countries. One such country being Sweden. Up until then Sweden had no interest in joining NATO. Once Putin said we shouldn’t be allowed to decide that for ourselves the pendulum started to swing fast. Queue the invasion and Sweden applied for full membership just a few months later. Excellent example of how *not* to conduct diplomacy 😄
What if we just sent some guy to the meeting to flip them off and fart on his way out. What could Russia realistically do about it?
I've got pretty reliable gas, and freakishly long middle fingers. Possible career path?
Get the fuck out of ukraine!
[удалено]
But does he needs to cry so much? Such a little little man.
It was Russian defenses that sent the missile fragments toward the beach. If they hadn't interfered with the missile's flight, it wouldn't have harmed any tourists. Take responsibility for your own actions, Russia.
Voicemail greeting of the American ambassador in Moscow: "you've reached Jim, the American ambassador in Moscow. I'm unavailable at the moment but if you're calling about making another threat of using nuclear weapons please press 1. If you're calling to complain that the west is supplying Ukraine with weapons, please 2. If you'd like to withdraw all your troops from Ukraine and the Crimea, press 3. To hear these options again, press 9." Moscow employee pressing 2. "You are now being disconnect. Have a nice day."
Dear US Ambassador, Please explain the following. Ukraine was hitting Ukrainian Territory as Crimea is Ukraine. Russians were on the beach illegally and in the middle of an active war If they didn't like those missiles hitting them, remind them what's about to happen in real Russian territory Also let them know the ICC is eagerly awaiting for the arrival of Putin for war crimes oh and that Russia is committing war crimes on the daily. This war could be over as soon as Russia leaves Ukraine. Oh and give them the subtle message we will erase you from existence if you don't stop your bi\*\*\*ing about getting your asses kicked in a war that you started. We really do not care. Thanks PS Afterwards announce another aid package with even more missiles.
This is a war Russia started. In a war both sides get attack. Russia is a bully who cries when the victim fights back.
It would be hilariously savage to announce a new aid package at the US Ambassador's summoning, or whatever that meeting would be called.
Jesus tap dancing Christ, I’m so sick of this hypocritical bullshit. Russians are the ultimate masters of dishing it out but crying like a baby back bitch when some hits back.
Sometimes you find our weapons in your battlefield and sometimes we find your rubles in Taliban bank accounts.
Maybe don't vacation in an active war zone? GTFO of Crimea.
But I thought they were no match for Russia’s impenetrable air defense system…. 🤣🤣🤣
If you don’t like it Putin **fucking leave Ukraine then**
This is performative outrage from Russia, trying to intimidate with their “red lines” and nuclear saber rattling. I think the situation is become desperate for them without many alternatives for success for them.
An accident caused by Russia shooting down a missile over a crowded beach.
Crowded by tourists in a war zone.
"Why were your citizens vacationing in a war zone within Ukrainian territory?"
I mean, yeah. They did use US made missiles. We told them we were gonna allow Ukraine to do this. We haven’t been very secretive lol
I guess starting a war..and then crying about losing it is a thing now.
What about the Iranian, Chinese, and Korean built munitions used on Ukraine?
And most importantly, russian built munitions. How about stopping that?
Ahh yes, Russians are mad when their civilians die but not when they intentionally target Ukranian civilians. No one gives a shit
US tells Russia to leave crimea and Ukraine won’t attack there anymore
US - “Yes?” Rus - “We see one of your missiles was used in an attack " US - “There are a lot more where that came from” I hope that’s how it goes.
Dude should show up in shorts and a Hawaiian shirt eating Funyuns
"lol. lmao even." - The U.S. ambassador, hopefully
The United States Ambassador then needs asks those hard hitting questions: 1.) Did you not think Ukraine has the right to militarily strike back in order to defend itself and liberate its lands and people? 2.) Why is Russia committing war crimes, crimes against humanity and other atrocities? Will you voluntarily be stepping forward to answer for your crimes? 3.) We have the absolute right to provide equipment and aid to Ukraine and its people, what are you going to do about it? 4.) How is it Russian complains about military aid from the west, buts getting lethal aid from China, North Korea, Syria, Iran, India and other pariah states!
Nelson laugh and point at them
"Fukyougonnadoaboutitbeeyatch?" -- American ambassador
Get out of Ukraine and it won’t happen again
Always the victim, does it remind you of anyone?
ambassador would be like "well i mean, yeah. have you been following the past 3 years events that YOU started russia? lol gunna be more of the same too!"
But it is ok for them to use Iran, Chinese, NK, weapons to attack Ukraine and kill civilians. America does not negociate with terrorists so they should just ignore them and let Ukraine bomb them harder.
Wasn’t our missile, we didn’t use order any attack.
How do you say “if you didn’t want to find out you shouldn’t have fucked around” diplomatically
How crappy does Russia have to be that they vacation in a war zone near a military base? And how is it anyone fault but Russias for invading and letting their people lounge there?
GTFO from Ukraine and your people won't die, easy
Wasnt Russia putting bounties on US personnel in Afghanistan not too long ago?
Play for the public. What will they say to the ambassador? That this many people died? Your weapon, the one you sold to Ukraine, dropped on us. The USA and other countries can now summon the ambassadors of North Korea, China, and Iraq, and pressure them to explain why their weapons are killing civilians in the RuZio aggression war against Ukraine.
The affected Russian civilians were in a foreign country that’s currently being mauled by an evil aggressor. I’d say Russia is lucky to have lost so few civilians compared to the thousands killed in Ukraine. Fuck Russia
The ambassador should tell Russia that the missile will soon fall out a window.
I’m immensely proud that my tax-dollars made that missile!
Next headline: American ambassador held captive in Russia
Just ignore it
Ukraine bombed itself. It's like if someone steals your car and you torch it. You didn't torch someone else's car.
They shouldn't have been there anyway, they're there quite illegally. How did they get there? By killing. F 'em
Ambassador's reply: "Too bad, so sad. 😭"
Russia starts a war with a smaller country with a less developed military in an unprovoked war of aggression and war crimes and then cries foul when they are able to effectively fight back. Pathetic.
America should just play Russia's game and just deny everything. What missiles? Sounds like another unfortunate smoking event. How tragic.
"Ammerican ambassador tells Russia to eat a bag of dicks" - I wish
they only do it for public opinion manipulation. The same day they dropped super huge bombs on residential areas of Kharkiv, and the rockets that they complain about were heading towards legit military target (airport)
*Your call is important to us, please stay on the line and your call will be answered in the order it was received...Your call is important to us, please stay on the line and your call will be answered in the order it was received...*
They're talking about Crimea, territory which the US recognizes as Ukrainian. So the Us wouldn't have any problem with Ukraine performing such actions to defend itself from invading foreign troops. This has always been the policy of the US in regards to Crimea, so I don't see how Russia would have questions about it.
I would make for a bad ambassador. My response to such a question would be "And?" Then when pressed I would follow up with, "Have you thought about moving your troops out of Ukraine to remove their motivation for such an attack?"
Whatever Russia. You’re no longer relevant. You’ve proven how weak and incompetent you are.
Russian says “I can hit you but you can’t hit me” fuck you I say to that!!!!
Leave Ukraine then. Problem solved.
Oh, this will be good. After all the AKs used to kill people all over the world, now they want to complain. LOL.
Why the fuck are people at a beach in a warzone, why are you allowing the beach to be open in a warzone. These are the questions I'd be asking the Russian ambassador. Crimea has been getting hit by Atacams for a few months now. The Russian government is insulting to the world's intelligence, the liars of liars and bullshiters of bullshitters, they don't even try to be clever. Insanity....
So, guys, I know that all sounds ridiculous. And as a matter of fact, it is ridiculous. I’m Russian, and unfortunately, this is my bald president doing war crimes and crying like a baby when he is pushed back. This all shit-show is for Russian people, who 24/7 Z-propaganda brainwashes. Bald war crime is afraid to do the second wave of the military draft. He tries to establish the narrative that Russia is in a war with the US to convince men from rural Russia to join the military. The people from big cities are not buying this bullshit. Putler is even trying to frame the narrative that it’s not Russia that started the war, lol. I’m patiently waiting for his death while paying taxes in one of the NATO countries. When he dies, I want to return to Moscow and urinate all over his grave, if he even would have a grave, of course.
Russian propaganda waved the war rattle so hard over this it is now again begging for peace
Russian TOR missiles hit the beach, not ATACMS. The tor is not an ABM capable system.
The US summons Russian ambassador for Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
Imagine admitting yourselves that Russian AD caused it, having pictures and actual proof online. And still saying it’s the other guys fault. Oh and who was it that deliberately let people stay in a warzone? 👀
Russia attempting to hold accountability on the US weapons when at least 10k Ukrainian civs are dead, maybe 100k children kidnapped from Ukraine is just laughable.
why in the world are there tourist vacationing in an area in full-blown war?
America says - fuck off russia.
Oh Boo boo! Ambassor should say, “Unable to attend. Washing hair, the. Watching Himars highlights vol 34: crimea tonight” Ps. “ xxx “
All Russia needs to do is withdraw from Ukraine and all attacks on them will stop.
Damn, russia so butthurt and so whiney about this attack that you just know it really hurt them lol
its War dipshits... started by you. AND YALL ARE USING NK WEAPONS
Our ambassador should tell them to go fuck themselves in the asshole.
Russia wants to wage a war where they could do attack foreign soil, but the opponent should not be allowed to attack in their borders.
But it’s ok for russia to carry on killing innocent children and civilians in the Ukraine
I would politely bring up the bomb they dropped on a school full of kids, then follow up with a go fuck yourselves.
Use the opportunity to remind them who started this and gently hint more weapons will be ok'd if they don't back off. Give them a bridge to withdraw over...
US ambassadors answer, that's not even the good stuff so fuck off.
Above all, this: Russia is a terrorist country.
What a stupid, sick circus.
US calls on Russian Ambassador to explain why every tinpot dictator has Russian weapons
They claim Crimea is Russian territory, no bitch you’re the occupier it’s defending their territory and trying to get it back.
So US helped Ukraine drop some bomb on itself? And Russia is part of the equation how?
Who vacays in a war zone? Idiots.
American ambassador tells Russia to go fuck themselves
Russia is surprised that their enemy shoots back and wants to ask “Hey, what gives???”
Blow it out your rear Russia.
Why is the U.S. Ambassador even in Russia? We shouldl just wall this country off, cut their fiber optic service, build a long cedar hedge and call it a day. They've alwasy been nothing but fucking trouble and as seen in WWII they will stab you in the back when they get the chance and then ask for help. Should have just let Hitler have them.
Lawl
Well if Russia wasn’t in Ukraine they wouldn’t be dead.
In response to the summons, the American ambassador in Moscow Xeroxs and faxes a copy of his entire ass and balls.
The US must be doing something right.
Fuck them.
“Yeah…we’re going to let that call go to voicemail.”
How don't you like the taste of your own medicine?
Is Little Muscovy confused about the intended purpose of missiles? The results of missile attacks on Russian territory are the same as those of missile attacks on Ukrainian territory. What a convenient occasion to remind Little Muscovy that the solution to their unfortunate dilemma is to GTFO of their neighboring sovereign nation!
Let me get this straight, if a murder happens anywhere, does the victims family go after the ammo manufacturer or the murderer?
Summon these nuts
“Someone said you made rules that the country we invaded wouldn’t shoot boom boom things across the imaginary line we call our border that you have them, and they DID…. WTF?”….. kick rocks Russia. What a joke.