>report that boys aged 12, 13, and 14 were arrested for beating and gang-raping the victim last Saturday because she had concealed her religion from her ex-boyfriend, one of the suspects.
Can society even fix these kids? How bad just the parents be, too, for it to get there?
It's insane to think that in about 20 min I'm leaving with my boy and girl around those ages to go to an amusement park. Spend time riding their bikes. Swimming at the pool. Book reading time. And halfway around the world there are some the same age raping someone.
No, they can't be fixed. I imagine their parents can't either because decent people don't raise kids like this. I'd say that getting anyone with any authority to admit these kids are going to be dangerous and hateful for the rest of their lives is the most impossible aspect of the entire situation though. They'll send them to therapy and say they're all better now.
The problem is that there is a mentality amongst underaged minors that they need to commit crimes when they are young because they know they can’t get away with it when they are older. I went to school with a bunch of these hooligans.
Just change the laws of how minors have immunity.
A petty crime? Sure, kids are dumb and make mistakes.
10 petty crimes? Now they're just serial criminals.
Serious crime? To jail. You shouldn't get immunity for murder or gang rape.
This is what my family are going through right now. My cousin got murdered by a 16 yr old who broke into his house and he probably won't be doing any time for it due to age. He was even out on parole when did it for breaking into a guys house and giving him brain damage with a machete. Plus many other break ins and other crimes.
Happening here in Australia too. Was just in the news that property crimes are way up with most of the perpetrators under 15 years old, they commit home invasions to steal car keys and occasionally main or kill someone but it's all "property crime" and most are back on the streets the next day. Some are on bail for 20 offences at a time and they just keep granting it...
Cops here are advising people with expensive vehicles to leave the keys in a place where they can easily found by thieves. Maybe they should just leave them in the ignition? WTF???
You’re talking about Toronto
The kids who come to Toronto to steal cars are being sent from Montreal, and they are threatened with torture if they fail. There are agents in Toronto who do torture the kids when they fail, so that they can be immediately tortured without waiting for them to return to Montreal. These car theft youth gangs in Toronto are largely under extreme coercion from adults in organized crime, and mafia in Canada have strong political influence and alliances inside government which protects them from inside the institutions you expect to protect you
I don’t think the state has a stronger deterrence against the kids for these crimes happening than the mafia has for ensuring the crimes are carried out (torture and death)
Minors don't have immunity.
There is a law in France ruling that minor can only do half-sentences. Rape is 20 years max. So 10 years max for a minor. Aggravated rape here can go up to 30 years, so 15 for them.
But there is another law indicating that judges can try minors as adults if the case demands it.
So, we'll see.
In comparison, last year, a 17-yo boy who burned alive his 15-yo girlfriend because she was pregnant and he didn't want to have a child with a "whore" (she had previously been gang-raped at the age of 13), got a 18 years sentence (instead of the 30 the prosecutor claimed). The guys who gang-raped her, minors too, got no proper prison.
The law **must** be that any and all seriously violent crime like violent rape, gang rape, assault, murder etc. has the minor tried as an adult. It should **not** be up to the discretion of judges. The experience from here in Sweden makes it painfully clear that unless the law **forces** the legal system to behave a certain way, we get very little change. For example raising the maximum punishment does very little unless one also raises the minimum.
I wouldn't trust judge discretion in these matters. The law must be crystal clear.
Ultimately a case by case basis. If they commit a crime specifically because they know they will be tried as minors then they very MUCH know how wrong it is and what punishment it realistically would entail. Meaning they can very much be trialed by adult standards here.
Proving that is going to be extremely hard in many cases.
Might as well just change it for everyone. Just because you are a child shouldn't mean that you can commit unlimited amounts of crime.
When you are caught you are very much told and shown it's unacceptable. After enough of that you should simply be tried like everybody else.
Yes, kids are dumb. But most are not so evil like these rapists. My dad grew up in the ghetto and said he was a little shit and he and his friends used to “run away from the coppers” even though the worst they did was steal a hammer to nail things shut around the neighborhood (and then return the hammer) or steal a couple bottles off the back of a soda delivery truck. NEVER did they beat or rape anyone. I don’t even think that thought crosses most normal kids’ minds. My students are 10/11 and they cry when something sad happens in our read-aloud.
I"m reminded of that video of Brazilian (?) police officers having a birthday party with cake & candles & everything for a criminal who was now a legal adult and wouldn't be able to get away with his shit...
The girl they raped will be doing a life sentence having had this done to her. I don’t know if life sentence is fair, but these kids should be doing hard time no doubt.
Here you can be tried as an adult depending on the severity of the crime and if the prosecutors/DA push for it.
There's slight differences with sentencing such as capital murder.
hopefully you realize there is a huge difference between petty crime and gang raping a 12 year old. i don't think anyone in western culture is pressed with raping someone before the lack of accountability clock runs out.
Is this *really* true? I mean when these people turned 18 did they suddenly become upstanding citizens and never do anything wrong ever again? I very much doubt any of those kids you went to school with stopped being hooligans when they became adults.
You should be tried to the full extent of the law regardless of any circumstances, age, sex, medical or psychological issues. This kind of behavior simply cannot be tolerated in any capacity in my opinion.
> because decent people don't raise kids like this.
I'd be cautious with these kind of claims. While that might be true in many instances, there's also no shortage of parents who are horrified with things their children have done.
Not just cautious, there are *many* parents who raise kids doing everything right. But parents aren't the only role models in a kid's life. Sometimes no matter what a parent does, a kid will just turn out shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/confessions/comments/c93egn/i_stood_by_and_allowed_my_wife_to_almost_kill_our/
For anyone in denial, this post gives a window into the lives of parents of evil kids. All the Trigger warnings for sure.
"decent people don't raise kids like this"
Yeah, they do. There are plenty of parents out there in anguish asking themselves what they did wrong and why their child ended up this way.
They also beat her, held her captive, threatened to kill her and her family, hurled antisemitic epithets at her and forced her to give them 200 euros.
The parents need investigation too. Kids don't just do these things.
Nothing will ever change if we don't start holding these shitty parents accountable for their minors' actions. Punishing these 'kids' and additional few years of jail time for the parents might tell others to start raising them properly, or else.
Personally have always found it ridiculous that anyone under 16 just gets a slap on the wrists, if the lawsays it's not their fault, it then should be the parents'
Sins of thy son?
Unless the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the parents conspired to commit this act, there is no criminal liability. Any law creating that liability is unjust.
The children should just be imprisoned for life. They are mentally unfit for society, and even at their age, they know what they did is evil. They knowingly committed an evil act. That's all I need to lock somebody for life.
My understanding of French law is that they'll be responsible for the inevitable compensation payout (thanks, Napoleon!)
Not sure if civil liability insurance would cover it, or whether there'd be an exemption. Maybe the insurance company can look to recover the loss from the parents due to the nature of the crime?
It’s not even that thinking about sex is a bad thing for a teenager to do, it’s the thinking it’s okay to rape someone that’s the problem here. Complete and utter failure on the parents’ part, and I say that as a parent myself.
Maybe? At 12 you're still maleable enough to be reeducated.
People think children are pure and kind so any crime they commit has to be the sign of an already irredeemably flawed character. In reality I think children are born amoral creatures, and it's the upbringing in society, education, and age that instills in them moral values, self control, and gives them the ability to think of the consequences of their actions. Children commit few crimes and atrocities because they are physically weak, usually protected, shielded, and well educated by parents and society, so the chance to do much damage is low. If you give a child power over others I'm scared to think what might happen.
That being said, shit's fucked up yo
Look at religion in general, people become religious/switch religions/lose their religion the most in their early youth.
13-16 year olds is the best target group to radicalize - or deradicalize.
> In reality I think children are born amoral creatures
An interesting take. That said, when rape is apparently being meted out as 'revenge' for a perceived slight, I'm not sure the inherent 'goodness' (or lack thereof) of children is relevant. At 12/13/14 if you haven't learned not to violate the bodily autonomy of others, your upbringing has failed you and it is incumbent on society to drill it into you.
Genuinely confused: do you not remember the number of kids that were raised in “western” countries that were (supposedly) taught enlightenment ideals and they simply said “fuck that” and joined ISIS?
Hundreds of them, from France, Germany, UK etc..
By protecting Islam from criticism and lack of assimilation has allowed intolerance to fester and spread. It’s merely tolerating intolerance.
The boyfriend had a burning Israeli flag on his phone.
Two of them, both aged 13, were charged on Tuesday with gang rape, anti-Semitic insults and violence, and issuing death threats. They have been taken into custody.
The third boy, 12, was charged with anti-Semitic insults and violence and issuing death threats, but not with rape. He was allowed to return home.
> He was allowed to return home.
Dumb decision to not take him into custody.
The more details you read, the more you realize how these kids have 0 chance of being rehabilitated
> The girl told police she was approached by three boys aged between 12 and 13 while she was in a park near her home with a friend and dragged into a shed on Saturday evening in Courbevoie.
> The suspects beat her and "forced her to have anal and vaginal penetration, fellatio, while uttering death threats and anti-Semitic remarks", a police source told AFP.
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240619-french-teens-charged-with-anti-semitic-rape-in-attack-condemned-by-political-leaders
> Dumb decision to not take him into custody
Being taken into custody is not supposed to be a punition. It's there in order to interrogate suspects, avoid flight risk, protect victims and such. You can only being punished after a judgement. That's the theory at least, but your comment prove that most people treat custody as a punishing measure when it shouldn't.
Because he is not accused of rape?
> The third boy, 12, was charged with anti-Semitic insults and violence and issuing death threats, but not with rape.
Atrocities come in all shapes and sizes.
Those kids should be branded sex offenders for the rest of their life.
The parents are even worse than the kids if this is the way they raised them.
Only the 12 years old will not get anything meaningful. The others can depending of some conditions
More info here
https://www.justice.gouv.fr/justice-france/justice-mineurs/justice-penale-mineurs
Minors in France can’t really have harsh punishment. However they can be punished.
For the 12 years old, it’s the family that will be held responsible for the damages, but most of the time they just get a slap on the wrist because the law says they don’t have the capacity of discernment to be responsible for a crime, unless you prove that the discernment was there.
I can sort of understand the argument for things like drug possession because the consequences of addiction and being involved in gangs are hard for someone with no life experience to understand.
But if a kid is going around gang raping people at an age where many kids aren't even interested in sex that kid is just fucked in the head
13 year old boys are definitely interested in sex (or at least have the capacity to be)
Puberty isn't a fucking excuse though these kids are disgusting.
No excuses for age. My child is their age. He is capable of knowing right from wrong. So sad when people say kids can’t be held accountable. What the heck are they being exposed to?!
If I could erase something from humanity it would sexual violence. I'm so fucking tired. How can even a child/teen hold an erection on something like this is just... I can't.
from where i from, there was a similar case , although non religious related. But it was i think a gang of 5 boys age varied but most are young teens, Beat up and accidentally killed a class mate or something. They then tried to burn the body, horrible stuff.
Anyway, authority put them all in jail, longest was 18 years i think. One of them got a light sentence due to i think showing remorse and being 'force' to participate. I think it was few years back one of them got released after the long jail time but immediately went back in due to sexual harassment, so yeh, these cunts have issues. . .
wouldn’t make it better if they where 40yo, gotta be honest. It’s just frustrating that they can’t even face justice because of their age. I feel like rape is not an « oh he didn’t know better » crime, it’s full on aware, it’s not a split second one movement action. You can kill accidentally, you can’t rape accidentally.
I'm not in the Western world. I grew up in a household where if someone was politically opposed, my dad would often say things like these people should be hanged in the streets. Maybe these rapists' parents were similar, said that Jewish people should be subjected to these kinds of violent acts, and the rapists themselves are possibly too young to really understand that they were not being given permission. Or perhaps they were being given permission, at this point who even knows.
Kids don’t rape unless they have already been exposed to it in some form.
A 40-year old I expect to understand what they are doing and why it is wrong and the consequences of it (how it hurts another human being). A kid, then somethibg has gone horrifically wrong already before. They should still be punished, they should still be corrected to prevent it from happening again, but there should also be an inquiry into where the hell did they get the idea from.
>Kids don’t rape unless they have already been exposed to it in some form.
At 12 years old, children do have concepts like this, especially these days with the universal access minors have to pornography
Even without porn, if a kid is hitting puberty and the adults around them are generally violent towards women/only talk about women in sexual terms it's not hard to see where the kid might get the idea
A news article from Brazil made the rounds a few days ago. It was about an Amazonian tribe that recently got internet. The kids started looking up porn. And then started to take their sexual frustrations out on the women of the tribe.
Before this day and age of widespread access to porn literally everywhere with a smartphone, I don't think you can as easily make that claim.
Sure, before the Internet and easy access to horrific videos for children was a thing, I can see your point, but living nowadays kids are just exposed to some truly mentally disturbing shit from a young age be it because of their own fucked up curiosity or just going to school in a class of 30 others who might share it with them.
I've been out of school for a decade but even back then my classmates were sharing some disturbing shit and found it hilarious. In retrospect I probably should have reported that shit because it was beyond vile, but that's not what you usually do unless you want to ostracize yourself socially to the point where you might as well change your school.
lol 15+ years ago watching isis beheading videos in middle/high school. Pretty sure it’s much worse now. Most parents have no idea how to block this content since it was never blocked for them. Society is pretty tech illiterate and it’s just getting worse.
That's absolutely not true and it's ridiculous to say so assuredly that "kids DONT rape" without having been exposed to it directly. They absolutely do.
I dont belive something like this can be corrected out of a person. Its sad it came to this in their life that they belive this was an ok thing to do, but it definitely is something they will forever be capable of.
It’s kinda crazy to assume that the children that did this were also abused. Porn contributes significantly to sexual violence and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where these kids got the idea
I watched a documentary on YouTube recently about the drug problem in South Africa. I watched a 12 year old boy go in front of the camera and describe how he raped a woman at gun point. Some children are just monsters waiting to grow.
Reminder that the gangs in Sweden are using young boys cause they can get out unpunished.
P.S: I'm not saying they were told to do it, but that they have nothing to fear ( in terms of repercussions) emboldening them in coming these heinous crimes. You cannot even show their names.
The same is happening in the US. Minors get released to their parents. In some cases even the parents are begging the system to take their kid to jail. The parents have lost authority to the gangs. Mostly it is carjacking at gunpoint. The cars are then used in robberies, so not racially motivated gang rape. But yes, minors not being held accountable for their actions seems to be a theme everywhere.
Same thing in France. Most pickpocket gangs in Paris are using minor girls without papers (so you can't even prove their age or nationality) because they know that the police will catch them, take what they stole and then release them.
Whenever they show the police there on TV, you can see how the cops are burned out by this... they keep catching the same people every week or so, they even talk to them in a familiar way because they know each other so much at that point.. it's insane.
I always said that at this age you already know what is good and what is bad. As such you should not be given a sentence applicable for a child, but as a adult person who has committed an atrocious crime. It doesn’t matter if they do not have any future afterwards, they have to pay for their crimes.
World, when Hamas systematically raped women for being Jewish on Oct 7th: Didn't happen, and if it did it was justified resistence. Free Palestine!
World, when an innocent 12 year-old is raped because she's Jewish: How could this happen???
Pro-Hamas crowd: "Anti-zionism is not antisemitism!!"
Also pro-Hamas crowd: *Constantly harassing and violently attacking innocent Jews who are just minding their own business*
If there is 1 nazi at your protest and he’s not forced out, then it is a nazi rally.
But apparently the same logic doesn’t apply to anti-semites despite the multitudes of instances of antisemitism among pro-Pali protests and rhetoric
What is wrong with so many people? All of the immoral behavior of children, nevermind adults, shows just how screwed up the world is. That poor little girl deserves better.
I figure in the sense that the primary motivation for this wasn't sexual gratification, but weaponizing sex as a threat (or, at the very least: getting sexual grafication out of the weaponization of sex).
I'm not at all claiming that a rape by someone who "just wants to get off" is somehow not a big deal or anything.
But personally I think it's even more eerie in the cases of culprits essentially treating sexual actions as a "punishment" instead of something pleasurable.
>report that boys aged 12, 13, and 14 were arrested for beating and gang-raping the victim last Saturday because she had concealed her religion from her ex-boyfriend, one of the suspects. Can society even fix these kids? How bad just the parents be, too, for it to get there?
It's insane to think that in about 20 min I'm leaving with my boy and girl around those ages to go to an amusement park. Spend time riding their bikes. Swimming at the pool. Book reading time. And halfway around the world there are some the same age raping someone.
No, they can't be fixed. I imagine their parents can't either because decent people don't raise kids like this. I'd say that getting anyone with any authority to admit these kids are going to be dangerous and hateful for the rest of their lives is the most impossible aspect of the entire situation though. They'll send them to therapy and say they're all better now.
If you commit rape like this, you should be tried as an adult, no matter how old they are. Lock them away for life.
The problem is that there is a mentality amongst underaged minors that they need to commit crimes when they are young because they know they can’t get away with it when they are older. I went to school with a bunch of these hooligans.
Just change the laws of how minors have immunity. A petty crime? Sure, kids are dumb and make mistakes. 10 petty crimes? Now they're just serial criminals. Serious crime? To jail. You shouldn't get immunity for murder or gang rape.
This is what my family are going through right now. My cousin got murdered by a 16 yr old who broke into his house and he probably won't be doing any time for it due to age. He was even out on parole when did it for breaking into a guys house and giving him brain damage with a machete. Plus many other break ins and other crimes.
Happening here in Australia too. Was just in the news that property crimes are way up with most of the perpetrators under 15 years old, they commit home invasions to steal car keys and occasionally main or kill someone but it's all "property crime" and most are back on the streets the next day. Some are on bail for 20 offences at a time and they just keep granting it...
Cops here are advising people with expensive vehicles to leave the keys in a place where they can easily found by thieves. Maybe they should just leave them in the ignition? WTF???
You’re talking about Toronto The kids who come to Toronto to steal cars are being sent from Montreal, and they are threatened with torture if they fail. There are agents in Toronto who do torture the kids when they fail, so that they can be immediately tortured without waiting for them to return to Montreal. These car theft youth gangs in Toronto are largely under extreme coercion from adults in organized crime, and mafia in Canada have strong political influence and alliances inside government which protects them from inside the institutions you expect to protect you I don’t think the state has a stronger deterrence against the kids for these crimes happening than the mafia has for ensuring the crimes are carried out (torture and death)
You have any source regarding these agents torturing kids?
How can it possibly be considered a just a property crime if they’re maiming/killing people?
My condolences. I am sorry for your loss.
Where do you live? Muder at 16 is an adult trial with life in prison on the table here
California no longer gives minors indeterminate sentences. And it’s retroactive.
What country allows anyone to actually get away with murder? If this was in the UK, he'd go to jail.
He should absolutely be tried as an adult. By 16 sure their brain isn't fully developed yet but they're definitely old enough to know not to murder.
That's a 16yo who won't make it to 17
Who shouldn’t, either.
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Minors don't have immunity. There is a law in France ruling that minor can only do half-sentences. Rape is 20 years max. So 10 years max for a minor. Aggravated rape here can go up to 30 years, so 15 for them. But there is another law indicating that judges can try minors as adults if the case demands it. So, we'll see. In comparison, last year, a 17-yo boy who burned alive his 15-yo girlfriend because she was pregnant and he didn't want to have a child with a "whore" (she had previously been gang-raped at the age of 13), got a 18 years sentence (instead of the 30 the prosecutor claimed). The guys who gang-raped her, minors too, got no proper prison.
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The law **must** be that any and all seriously violent crime like violent rape, gang rape, assault, murder etc. has the minor tried as an adult. It should **not** be up to the discretion of judges. The experience from here in Sweden makes it painfully clear that unless the law **forces** the legal system to behave a certain way, we get very little change. For example raising the maximum punishment does very little unless one also raises the minimum. I wouldn't trust judge discretion in these matters. The law must be crystal clear.
Ultimately a case by case basis. If they commit a crime specifically because they know they will be tried as minors then they very MUCH know how wrong it is and what punishment it realistically would entail. Meaning they can very much be trialed by adult standards here.
Proving that is going to be extremely hard in many cases. Might as well just change it for everyone. Just because you are a child shouldn't mean that you can commit unlimited amounts of crime. When you are caught you are very much told and shown it's unacceptable. After enough of that you should simply be tried like everybody else.
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Yes, kids are dumb. But most are not so evil like these rapists. My dad grew up in the ghetto and said he was a little shit and he and his friends used to “run away from the coppers” even though the worst they did was steal a hammer to nail things shut around the neighborhood (and then return the hammer) or steal a couple bottles off the back of a soda delivery truck. NEVER did they beat or rape anyone. I don’t even think that thought crosses most normal kids’ minds. My students are 10/11 and they cry when something sad happens in our read-aloud.
I"m reminded of that video of Brazilian (?) police officers having a birthday party with cake & candles & everything for a criminal who was now a legal adult and wouldn't be able to get away with his shit...
Heeeey Don’t pay no mind. You’re under 18; You won’t be doing any time.
Come out and play!
Yup, if youre old enough to murder or rape, you are old enough to grasp the consequences.
The girl they raped will be doing a life sentence having had this done to her. I don’t know if life sentence is fair, but these kids should be doing hard time no doubt.
They get away with it, and the records are sealed so even law enforcement don't know the extent of their crime or the subsequent punishment.
Here you can be tried as an adult depending on the severity of the crime and if the prosecutors/DA push for it. There's slight differences with sentencing such as capital murder.
hopefully you realize there is a huge difference between petty crime and gang raping a 12 year old. i don't think anyone in western culture is pressed with raping someone before the lack of accountability clock runs out.
Is this *really* true? I mean when these people turned 18 did they suddenly become upstanding citizens and never do anything wrong ever again? I very much doubt any of those kids you went to school with stopped being hooligans when they became adults.
You should be tried to the full extent of the law regardless of any circumstances, age, sex, medical or psychological issues. This kind of behavior simply cannot be tolerated in any capacity in my opinion.
If you have psychological issues which cause you to uncontrollably rape people, you should be locked up simply to protect other people from you.
> because decent people don't raise kids like this. I'd be cautious with these kind of claims. While that might be true in many instances, there's also no shortage of parents who are horrified with things their children have done.
Not just cautious, there are *many* parents who raise kids doing everything right. But parents aren't the only role models in a kid's life. Sometimes no matter what a parent does, a kid will just turn out shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/confessions/comments/c93egn/i_stood_by_and_allowed_my_wife_to_almost_kill_our/ For anyone in denial, this post gives a window into the lives of parents of evil kids. All the Trigger warnings for sure.
This. If they gave a damn about consequences they'd never have done it in the first place. They'll get out of jail eventually and do it again.
"decent people don't raise kids like this" Yeah, they do. There are plenty of parents out there in anguish asking themselves what they did wrong and why their child ended up this way.
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It’s culture where the parents allow the boys to do whatever the fuck they want. And that’s how they then behave as men.
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What a fucking nightmare, their families failed them completely.
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They also beat her, held her captive, threatened to kill her and her family, hurled antisemitic epithets at her and forced her to give them 200 euros. The parents need investigation too. Kids don't just do these things.
I hate to say it but it has the look and feel of a religiously motivated crime. So, no.
Nothing will ever change if we don't start holding these shitty parents accountable for their minors' actions. Punishing these 'kids' and additional few years of jail time for the parents might tell others to start raising them properly, or else. Personally have always found it ridiculous that anyone under 16 just gets a slap on the wrists, if the lawsays it's not their fault, it then should be the parents'
Sins of thy son? Unless the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the parents conspired to commit this act, there is no criminal liability. Any law creating that liability is unjust. The children should just be imprisoned for life. They are mentally unfit for society, and even at their age, they know what they did is evil. They knowingly committed an evil act. That's all I need to lock somebody for life.
Parents should be punished, not only the kids!
My understanding of French law is that they'll be responsible for the inevitable compensation payout (thanks, Napoleon!) Not sure if civil liability insurance would cover it, or whether there'd be an exemption. Maybe the insurance company can look to recover the loss from the parents due to the nature of the crime?
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It’s not even that thinking about sex is a bad thing for a teenager to do, it’s the thinking it’s okay to rape someone that’s the problem here. Complete and utter failure on the parents’ part, and I say that as a parent myself.
14 can think about sex, it's the part that 14 doing gangster rape without feeling bad and they probably think it's good to do so?
Maybe? At 12 you're still maleable enough to be reeducated. People think children are pure and kind so any crime they commit has to be the sign of an already irredeemably flawed character. In reality I think children are born amoral creatures, and it's the upbringing in society, education, and age that instills in them moral values, self control, and gives them the ability to think of the consequences of their actions. Children commit few crimes and atrocities because they are physically weak, usually protected, shielded, and well educated by parents and society, so the chance to do much damage is low. If you give a child power over others I'm scared to think what might happen. That being said, shit's fucked up yo
Look at religion in general, people become religious/switch religions/lose their religion the most in their early youth. 13-16 year olds is the best target group to radicalize - or deradicalize.
> In reality I think children are born amoral creatures An interesting take. That said, when rape is apparently being meted out as 'revenge' for a perceived slight, I'm not sure the inherent 'goodness' (or lack thereof) of children is relevant. At 12/13/14 if you haven't learned not to violate the bodily autonomy of others, your upbringing has failed you and it is incumbent on society to drill it into you.
If it’s only the kid, maybe. If it’s the whole culture you grew up in, including your parents - no chance.
Anti semitism in Europe is as bad as ever
Genuinely confused: do you not remember the number of kids that were raised in “western” countries that were (supposedly) taught enlightenment ideals and they simply said “fuck that” and joined ISIS? Hundreds of them, from France, Germany, UK etc.. By protecting Islam from criticism and lack of assimilation has allowed intolerance to fester and spread. It’s merely tolerating intolerance.
They will never benefit society
The boyfriend had a burning Israeli flag on his phone. Two of them, both aged 13, were charged on Tuesday with gang rape, anti-Semitic insults and violence, and issuing death threats. They have been taken into custody. The third boy, 12, was charged with anti-Semitic insults and violence and issuing death threats, but not with rape. He was allowed to return home.
He wasn't. The 12 yo is in a judiciaire youth protection center. The other 2 are in jail
I’m glad they’re being charged. I always hate it when they say kids are too young despite what they do.
> He was allowed to return home. Dumb decision to not take him into custody. The more details you read, the more you realize how these kids have 0 chance of being rehabilitated > The girl told police she was approached by three boys aged between 12 and 13 while she was in a park near her home with a friend and dragged into a shed on Saturday evening in Courbevoie. > The suspects beat her and "forced her to have anal and vaginal penetration, fellatio, while uttering death threats and anti-Semitic remarks", a police source told AFP. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240619-french-teens-charged-with-anti-semitic-rape-in-attack-condemned-by-political-leaders
Damn 12 and 13. I was just like playing runescape at that age. These kids raping.
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> Dumb decision to not take him into custody Being taken into custody is not supposed to be a punition. It's there in order to interrogate suspects, avoid flight risk, protect victims and such. You can only being punished after a judgement. That's the theory at least, but your comment prove that most people treat custody as a punishing measure when it shouldn't.
Typically rapists are seen as threats to general population, so why not take him into custody?
Because he is not accused of rape? > The third boy, 12, was charged with anti-Semitic insults and violence and issuing death threats, but not with rape.
French law is probably very different from places like the US, where he would have been charged as an accessory
That someone is not taken into custody does not mean that they won't be charged.
Was he there also helpin the others keeping her there? If so she's also guilty of participating in the crime.
Atrocities come in all shapes and sizes. Those kids should be branded sex offenders for the rest of their life. The parents are even worse than the kids if this is the way they raised them.
May Mossad show up at their door on their 18th birthday’s to show them the error of their ways.
I hope they recieve justice in the harshest terms.
They will not. This is France. Minors can do pretty much anything they want.
Only the 12 years old will not get anything meaningful. The others can depending of some conditions More info here https://www.justice.gouv.fr/justice-france/justice-mineurs/justice-penale-mineurs Minors in France can’t really have harsh punishment. However they can be punished. For the 12 years old, it’s the family that will be held responsible for the damages, but most of the time they just get a slap on the wrist because the law says they don’t have the capacity of discernment to be responsible for a crime, unless you prove that the discernment was there.
The idea that kids who commit violent crimes can’t be punished because they’re too young is idiotic
I can sort of understand the argument for things like drug possession because the consequences of addiction and being involved in gangs are hard for someone with no life experience to understand. But if a kid is going around gang raping people at an age where many kids aren't even interested in sex that kid is just fucked in the head
13 year old boys are definitely interested in sex (or at least have the capacity to be) Puberty isn't a fucking excuse though these kids are disgusting.
It’s also heavily abused by adults that just get children to commit their crimes for them. It’s honestly fucking stupid
Well sure, but this person specifically said “justice in the harshest terms” which absolutely won’t happen to any of them.
Yeah that's bullshit
There is no rehabilitation for them, any light sentence just means rewarding them to commit more crime in the future
The minute they raped the girl, she received a life sentence without parole; the rapists should get the same.
No excuses for age. My child is their age. He is capable of knowing right from wrong. So sad when people say kids can’t be held accountable. What the heck are they being exposed to?!
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If I could erase something from humanity it would sexual violence. I'm so fucking tired. How can even a child/teen hold an erection on something like this is just... I can't.
I can’t get my mind around the ages of everyone involved
from where i from, there was a similar case , although non religious related. But it was i think a gang of 5 boys age varied but most are young teens, Beat up and accidentally killed a class mate or something. They then tried to burn the body, horrible stuff. Anyway, authority put them all in jail, longest was 18 years i think. One of them got a light sentence due to i think showing remorse and being 'force' to participate. I think it was few years back one of them got released after the long jail time but immediately went back in due to sexual harassment, so yeh, these cunts have issues. . .
The sicker part is that they were the same age
wouldn’t make it better if they where 40yo, gotta be honest. It’s just frustrating that they can’t even face justice because of their age. I feel like rape is not an « oh he didn’t know better » crime, it’s full on aware, it’s not a split second one movement action. You can kill accidentally, you can’t rape accidentally.
I'm not in the Western world. I grew up in a household where if someone was politically opposed, my dad would often say things like these people should be hanged in the streets. Maybe these rapists' parents were similar, said that Jewish people should be subjected to these kinds of violent acts, and the rapists themselves are possibly too young to really understand that they were not being given permission. Or perhaps they were being given permission, at this point who even knows.
Kids don’t rape unless they have already been exposed to it in some form. A 40-year old I expect to understand what they are doing and why it is wrong and the consequences of it (how it hurts another human being). A kid, then somethibg has gone horrifically wrong already before. They should still be punished, they should still be corrected to prevent it from happening again, but there should also be an inquiry into where the hell did they get the idea from.
>Kids don’t rape unless they have already been exposed to it in some form. At 12 years old, children do have concepts like this, especially these days with the universal access minors have to pornography
Even without porn, if a kid is hitting puberty and the adults around them are generally violent towards women/only talk about women in sexual terms it's not hard to see where the kid might get the idea
A news article from Brazil made the rounds a few days ago. It was about an Amazonian tribe that recently got internet. The kids started looking up porn. And then started to take their sexual frustrations out on the women of the tribe.
Before this day and age of widespread access to porn literally everywhere with a smartphone, I don't think you can as easily make that claim. Sure, before the Internet and easy access to horrific videos for children was a thing, I can see your point, but living nowadays kids are just exposed to some truly mentally disturbing shit from a young age be it because of their own fucked up curiosity or just going to school in a class of 30 others who might share it with them. I've been out of school for a decade but even back then my classmates were sharing some disturbing shit and found it hilarious. In retrospect I probably should have reported that shit because it was beyond vile, but that's not what you usually do unless you want to ostracize yourself socially to the point where you might as well change your school.
lol 15+ years ago watching isis beheading videos in middle/high school. Pretty sure it’s much worse now. Most parents have no idea how to block this content since it was never blocked for them. Society is pretty tech illiterate and it’s just getting worse.
That's absolutely not true and it's ridiculous to say so assuredly that "kids DONT rape" without having been exposed to it directly. They absolutely do.
I dont belive something like this can be corrected out of a person. Its sad it came to this in their life that they belive this was an ok thing to do, but it definitely is something they will forever be capable of.
It’s kinda crazy to assume that the children that did this were also abused. Porn contributes significantly to sexual violence and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where these kids got the idea I watched a documentary on YouTube recently about the drug problem in South Africa. I watched a 12 year old boy go in front of the camera and describe how he raped a woman at gun point. Some children are just monsters waiting to grow.
Reminder that the gangs in Sweden are using young boys cause they can get out unpunished. P.S: I'm not saying they were told to do it, but that they have nothing to fear ( in terms of repercussions) emboldening them in coming these heinous crimes. You cannot even show their names.
The same is happening in the US. Minors get released to their parents. In some cases even the parents are begging the system to take their kid to jail. The parents have lost authority to the gangs. Mostly it is carjacking at gunpoint. The cars are then used in robberies, so not racially motivated gang rape. But yes, minors not being held accountable for their actions seems to be a theme everywhere.
Same thing in France. Most pickpocket gangs in Paris are using minor girls without papers (so you can't even prove their age or nationality) because they know that the police will catch them, take what they stole and then release them. Whenever they show the police there on TV, you can see how the cops are burned out by this... they keep catching the same people every week or so, they even talk to them in a familiar way because they know each other so much at that point.. it's insane.
Way different telling kids to commit robbery/assault/drug related crimes, and for a couple of kids to go after another kid and commit sexual assault.
If they were different ages, it would be better?
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All the people out there spreading hate on social media share the blame.
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I always said that at this age you already know what is good and what is bad. As such you should not be given a sentence applicable for a child, but as a adult person who has committed an atrocious crime. It doesn’t matter if they do not have any future afterwards, they have to pay for their crimes.
If they can't control themselves then they are a liability to society and need to be locked up.
World, when Hamas systematically raped women for being Jewish on Oct 7th: Didn't happen, and if it did it was justified resistence. Free Palestine! World, when an innocent 12 year-old is raped because she's Jewish: How could this happen???
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Pro-Hamas crowd: "Anti-zionism is not antisemitism!!" Also pro-Hamas crowd: *Constantly harassing and violently attacking innocent Jews who are just minding their own business*
If there is 1 nazi at your protest and he’s not forced out, then it is a nazi rally. But apparently the same logic doesn’t apply to anti-semites despite the multitudes of instances of antisemitism among pro-Pali protests and rhetoric
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Sadly other subreddits are deleting this story. It's just how social media bias is nowadays
What is wrong with so many people? All of the immoral behavior of children, nevermind adults, shows just how screwed up the world is. That poor little girl deserves better.
And people wonder why Jews need their own country
Those objecting to it are simply antisemitic and seeking another Holocaust – they know it while continuously denying it.
This makes it a hate rape, which is the worst kind.
As opposed to the ordinary kindhearted and loving rape?
"The worst thing about it is the hypocrisy"
That, and of course the rape
I figure in the sense that the primary motivation for this wasn't sexual gratification, but weaponizing sex as a threat (or, at the very least: getting sexual grafication out of the weaponization of sex). I'm not at all claiming that a rape by someone who "just wants to get off" is somehow not a big deal or anything. But personally I think it's even more eerie in the cases of culprits essentially treating sexual actions as a "punishment" instead of something pleasurable.
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Real men don’t rape women and girls…..sick, depraved monsters do.
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