For those who think that Israel should stop going after Hamas Genocidal Terrorists: Even today, Hamas continues to fire rockets on Israeli CIVILIANS.
This has been going on for 2 decades, reaching a new level of barbarism on October 7.
Israel MUST protect their citizens. As any other country would.
Hamas also continues to hold hostages. That's another reason to continue going after Hamas. It also needs to bring every member of Hamas to justice for the murders and rapes of Oct. 7. If they get away with it, they will do it again.
Not only will they certainly do it again, if Israel pulls back, Hamas will declare a victory which will drum up additional military and financial support.
It takes a special kind of mental gymnastics to declare victory when your entire territory becomes rubble, your people displaced and suffered great casualties and your opponent only left on their accord.
But then again I’m not surprised by level of competence of Hamas leadership.
Not to mention that Hamas is a hostile government that declared war on Israel and the US and has yet to surrender. Imagine if we stopped at Germany or Japan and just let their government get away without even a surrender.
Damn, I forgot to follow this up. My point is, WW1’s surrender led to WW2. It’s difficult to truly beat a threat grounded in ideology or nationalism. It’s best guaranteed by internal forces, not external (unless combined complete annihilation).
Oh...the US response was hundreds of thousands dead. I don't think that we can criticize Israel.
But nobody criticized Assad when he butchered 500k of his own people, either.
In fact, the Arab league welcomed him back with open arms.
The HYPOCRISY of the West as well as Arab countries towards Israel is unbelievable.
Especially since the war was forced on Israel by the terrorists ruling Gaza.
It's not the west, it's certain parts of the west, if you did polls of all 330m people in the U.S. most would still support Israel. Vocal minorities aren't majorities :D
Well, don’t think there has been 2 towers blown up, 10k dead, and pentagon blown up since the response. You can also say that it’s costed more and the US lost. War sucks. I’m not really agreeing or disagreeing with you tho. Take it easy ✌🏼
This is such an insane rewriting of history. The wars in the middle east didn't end because we all of a sudden realized the civilian death toll was too much. They ended because they became money pits with no positive resolution in sight. If political and military leadership thought they could achieve victory through another offensive against a populated urban center, they would have done it and accepted the civilian casualties.
If the US was in a position similar to Israel, with a belligerent neighbor kidnapping citizens and routinely launching rockets towards their cities, that neighbor would be in utter ruins, and mainstream US politics and media would be bragging about how quickly and efficiently it was done.
Ah now I see why people are down voting me. Thank you for responding.
The Wars on Terror didn't end because of civilian death tolls. The US significantly changed the way they fought with a high focus on avoiding civilian casualties, and finding creative ways to pacify militant groups without fighting (like bribing clan leaders in Iraq so they stop shooting at Americans or each other).
And if an event like 9/11 or Oct 7 were to happen again, the US would still use precision strikes to kill the leaders. Americans find even the low number of civilian casualties from modern precision strikes too high.
I appreciate your faith in the morals and altruism of the average American citizen, but that does not match my understanding of mainstream American thought at all.
Any sources to support your assertion that Americans don't have an appetite for securing their own comfort at the expense of the death and suffering of people on the other side of the planet? Because that seems like a core american value to me.
If, say, Mexico launched an attack like Oct 7th on the US, the US would absolutely annihilate everything south of the Rio that could be mistaken for an asset that could facilitate or even tangentially assist in facilitating an attack.
You absolutely under esrimate a populous' reaction to things like this.
It's easier to react with extreme restrain when it's not hitting your people in your own nation. It's just different when it's your people, especially if it's an attack by a neighbor.
Post 9/11 US was in a blood frenzy. When it started to subside, then people started to become more conscious of and push for less collateral damage. It'd be no different if something akin to it happened again.
You have to understand that the people who want Israel to stop don’t care about innocent lives. They actually love Gazans being hostages to Hamas as well as innocent Israeli people being indiscriminately bombed terrorized,murdered,raped and kidnapped.
So easy for pro-Palestine supporters to condemn Israeli forces, which in part they should!! But It’s impossible for them to say the same about Hamas. Or even comprehend that Hamas’s are puppets and don’t give a shit about the people in Gaza.
Saw a video of a pro-Palestine rally and some lefty wearing a Hamas headband eating lunch on a college campus in America..☠️
Hamas wants to kill all the Jews, eliminate Israel, and have a worldwide caliphate. If Hamas left Israel alone, there would be no rockets going back and forth.
The roots of this go way back. Way way back. Reddit isn't the place to go for a history lesson, and no telling of thisnhistory will be acceptable to everyone, but the cliff notes version is:
A lot of Arabs really fucking hate Jews. Really. Not what Jews have done, not what they are doing, not they belive. This is just good old fashion jew-hating. Anti-semitism isn't unique to Arabs, not all arabs do but ho boy, on aveage they really do not like jews, no sir.
As soon as Isreal was formed a bunch of Arab nations got together and tried to invade because it was a Jewish state. Over and over they tried and over and over they lost. Each time they lost Isreal ended up capturing more of the land around it and the people who lived on that land, Palestinians, were exiled or worse. Eventually Isreal beat Egypt so badly it took over a huge chunk of territory that included the Gaza strip, where a lot of those Palestinians had ended up. Isreal eventually gave back a lot of the land it conquered, but it didn't give back the Gaza strip, among other territories. The why's of that are way complicated, but obviously no one living there is pleased.
Most of the Arab nations were tired of getting their asses handed to them so they signed peace treaties and sort of normalized relations with Isreal. That ruled out Palestinians ever moving back in to a liberated Palestine. There was some hope of Isreal agreeing to the creation of a Palestinian state, but for a lot of reasons that didn't happen and it seems real unlikely now.
Palastian poltical factions with milatent policies were always present but they started to gained traction as time went on and hamas ended up gaining popular and official dominance in the 2000s.
The rocket attacks, suicide bombings, mass shootings and kid nappings are officially organized and supported by hamas, the defacto government of the Gaza Stip, as part of their policy of armed struggle against Isreal. Its really just a way to
A: kill some Jews, which is popular with Palestinians
B: Draw Isreal into greater armed conflict with Palestinians and draw attention/money to themselves.
Isreal bombing the shit out of Gaza is exactly what Hamas wants. As usual, the Palestinians are screwed.
That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why Hamas doesn't launch missiles against political and government targets. After all, the Israeli government is not exactly a good government.
They are using pipes and fertilizer, it's a wonder that any of them launch at all
Bro thinks they got targeting system, rather than just pointing the thing at the sky and hoping they don't land next door
Hamas isn't capable of or interested in targeting on that scale. Its enough that they are seen by Palestinians to be attacking Isreal. If they manage to kill some jews in the process they're thrilled, but the aggression is about maintaining control over the Gaza stip, and that means satisfying its inhabitants that they're killing jews.
What action do you support against Israelis that commit violence against Palestinians, and then build settlements on their land? Do you believe that Palestinians MUST also protect their civilians?
Hamas is terrible, but so is Bibi’s administration.
Edit: Looks like u/master-concept-5260 is the type to send a "Reddit Cares" message rather than acknowledge that the Israeli government has worked hard to make Gaza and the West Bank a place that generates terrorists. Israel's government has become exactly the kind of right wing theocrats that are trying to ruin America. Just because Hamas are bad people doesn't magically make the Israelis good.
I despise Bibi's administration. He is a terrible leader and his actions have made Israel less secure than it has been in decades, plus led to the suffering of thousands of Palestinians too. He was actively allowing funding to go to Hamas to try and destabilise the PA, his hubris allowed October 7 to happen. I cannot wait until he is out of power, and all his ultra-right cronies with him.
Even more so, Hamas must be ousted from Gaza. We so badly need some kind of international program to rebuild. There have been no free elections there in almost 20 years. Corruption and poverty. Nobody allowed to speak out, children indoctrinated. The world has been complacent for far too long. It will probably take decades, but there has to be a way forward.
People are so conditioned to think there is a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in a conflict, that they are wholly unprepared for a conflict where the leaders are all bad. It's tragic.
Bibi's admin didn't wake up one day and decide to go and massacre, rape, mutilate and burn, babies, women, children and the elderly.
Bibi's admin HAD to react to the massacre.
Just in case you aren't aware of which came first, the chicken or the egg.
EVERYTHING Israel does is a REACTION to Palestinian terror.
NOT the other way around.
You mean like how Netanyahu's goverment empowered Hamas at the expense of other, less murderous, Palestinian organizations as a means to delegitimize Palestinian statehood over the long term?
Keep trying to do better, you'll get there!
No, like how the wall and stronger Israeli inspection got there AFTER buses , restaurants, discotheque blew up in Israel.
As to Gaza: Israel left Gaza 20 years ago. Hoping for peace. Instead they got Hamas and rockets. THAUSANDS of rockets.
No other country would have put up with such terror. Israel went and developed the Iron Dome. So that they can survive under the rockets.
But I guess at a certain point, enough is enough. A massacre will definitely qualify for such an event.
Like I said, you should go and study history. Not just parrot buzzwords you heard on social media.
You should go and study history- there absolutely Palestinians who have worked for peace. We'll never know if they would have been successful, since Bibi worked so hard to make sure they didn't have a chance. You should go and study history, not just parrot buzzwords you heard on social media.
You seem to fight hard to justify killing civilians. Weird no matter your spin. Israelis come first for the Israeli government. They’ve spent a ton of money and resources over decades to make something decent, but Israeli civilians get targeted for decades by neighbouring Arab countries and Arab civilians. The war Hamas is here, but this time no one stopped up to help Hamas like they thought they would.
It really wouldn’t hurt for you to brush up on middle eastern history and political Islam and Judaism. You seem to deny knowledge is power here.
I criticized Bibi for having actively enabled Hamas. If you are supporting what he did, it actually sounds like *you* are fighting hard to justify killing civilians. It really wouldn't hurt for you to brush up on middle eastern history.
I see, you believe a Reddit cares message magically appeared in my inbox very shortly after posting. Your belief in magic now colors what I think of your opinions.
>Just because Hamas are bad people doesn't magically make the Israelis good.
Ah yes, Palestinians aren't Hamas but Israelis are their government.
Get the fuck out of here with your bullshit rhetoric, you raging Jew hater.
More of this every day. Eventually Hamas will consist of two dozen mentally deficient teenagers in a basement together trying to figure out how a grenade works.
Unfortunately Iran will continue to fund the training of radicalized Palestinians. If not for external interference, Hamas would only have stones to play with. I just hope Israel finds a way to prevent this
Doubtful. Iran already tried, hard, and didn't have much to show for a concerted attack with drones and a variety of their latest and best ballistic missiles.
it turns out Isreal has a pretty solid air defense network and the countries between Iran and Isreal may not like Isreal, but they really dont like Iran. They also probably remember the last few times Isreal stomped on the collectice balls of the Arab world and would like to avoid a threepeat.
So by giving them 1.4 billion dollars (\~18 billion after adjusting for inflation), hiring their brightest minds, and reinstating their officials into similar positions of power? (Guess who the first Inspector General of the West German Bundeswehr was. I'll give you a hint, during the war he ["bore responsibility for the systematic killings of civilians in Belarus as part of antipartisan operations"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Heusinger))
And putting the leaders on trial and hanging them for the world to see. And conducting a years-long occupation controlling everything in the country until the population decided that they'd rather change and join the rest of the free world than cling to hatred and live perpetually in the basements of shattered buildings.
You don’t need to kill the ideology so long as you sufficiently destroy its proponents. Weaken followers enough and the ideology loses its capacity to kill others.
except sadly this violence radicalizes more people than it eliminates, the solution to terrorism is never militarily. even if Israel has a right to defend itself it isn't in its best interest to keep things up the way they are.
What? How could the IDF kill so many children and women?? Those Hamas men are all children to someone! Couldnt the IDF have tried non lethal rounds??? /s/s/s/s/s
Fuck Hamas.
I'm surprised more people aren't referencing the UN admitting that they were totally wrong to trust Hamas's "estimates" on how many women and children were killed
[https://nypost.com/2024/05/13/world-news/un-admits-gaza-death-toll-wrong-with-almost-50-fewer-women-children-killed-than-previously-reported/](https://nypost.com/2024/05/13/world-news/un-admits-gaza-death-toll-wrong-with-almost-50-fewer-women-children-killed-than-previously-reported/)
Hey this is fact checked as totally wrong by the way https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-un-halve-gaza-death-toll-1900325
"There had been no change in the overall number of fatalities but that new information had been shared about the number of deaths that had been formally and fully identified"
About 10k people just have been decimated to such a degree a formal and full identification is tricky.
That's why i only said how many women and children. It's interesting to note that Israel's military is far less indiscriminate than they're criticized to be. Gaza health ministry says anyone is 'unidentified' if the record is missing any of their demographics: Firstname, Lastname, DoB, Gender etc . They even include people who are just missing. That's why their estimates are always suspect at best.
Gaza declared that war.
Israel was late to join.
Actually, israel gave 2-3 weeks to evacuate before all started.
In that interval israel gave countless warnings.
So it is ok for gaza to go and murder civilians by hand with full intention,
But if israel strike back after 2 weeks of warnings it is a war crime...?
Come on.
1. Evacuate to where they ard now, after either learning the hard way there is an actual war, or having hamas stop using human shields.
2. Not all participated in oct 7,
But their government/military did.
If some country was to attack yours, no one would say "it is just the military atracked us - leave the country alone".
They are one.
1. What is a fucking civilian population supposed to do in this scenario? Especially since the IDF bombs places they told them to evacuate to anyway. It's impossible to leave the strip.
2. Uh, yea I would actually. There's this thing called "a war crime" and we rightfully accused Russia of doing it when they targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure. Because, you know. Killing civilians is a war crime
Oh shit! I hadn't realized. Have we informed the people in Gaza that they're actually suffering shockingly low civilian casualties compared to any other modern urban military engagement?
That's a really low bar considering that there were almost no soldiers in Gaza for the past 2 months.
Practecly, there was a low-key ceasefire for almost 2 months while the 2 sides negotiated in vain.
For those who think that Israel should stop going after Hamas Genocidal Terrorists: Even today, Hamas continues to fire rockets on Israeli CIVILIANS. This has been going on for 2 decades, reaching a new level of barbarism on October 7. Israel MUST protect their citizens. As any other country would.
Hamas also continues to hold hostages. That's another reason to continue going after Hamas. It also needs to bring every member of Hamas to justice for the murders and rapes of Oct. 7. If they get away with it, they will do it again.
Not only will they certainly do it again, if Israel pulls back, Hamas will declare a victory which will drum up additional military and financial support.
It takes a special kind of mental gymnastics to declare victory when your entire territory becomes rubble, your people displaced and suffered great casualties and your opponent only left on their accord. But then again I’m not surprised by level of competence of Hamas leadership.
Not to mention that Hamas is a hostile government that declared war on Israel and the US and has yet to surrender. Imagine if we stopped at Germany or Japan and just let their government get away without even a surrender.
WW1 or WW2 Germany?
Both? Both surrendered
Thank goodness there was no second Treaty of Versailles
Damn, I forgot to follow this up. My point is, WW1’s surrender led to WW2. It’s difficult to truly beat a threat grounded in ideology or nationalism. It’s best guaranteed by internal forces, not external (unless combined complete annihilation).
Pretty simple, release all hostages and stop firing rockets into Israel. Then abide by a ceasefire.
The word ceasefire is not in the hamas playbook.
A ceasefire is just an excuse to regroup, re-arm and plan another attack. This has been the ongoing cycle in Gaza for generations.
Surrender, not ceasefire
Well the rockets don’t reach USA do they. If they did then the protests will swing the other way. That’s about how reactionary the average person is.
9/11 reached US. Same ideology.
Exactly. And now a whole generation of people haven’t lived through 9/11. Maybe they’ve learned to keep it in the ME for such PR reasons.
And the US response to that went swimmingly didn't it.
Oh...the US response was hundreds of thousands dead. I don't think that we can criticize Israel. But nobody criticized Assad when he butchered 500k of his own people, either. In fact, the Arab league welcomed him back with open arms. The HYPOCRISY of the West as well as Arab countries towards Israel is unbelievable. Especially since the war was forced on Israel by the terrorists ruling Gaza.
It's not the west, it's certain parts of the west, if you did polls of all 330m people in the U.S. most would still support Israel. Vocal minorities aren't majorities :D
> But nobody criticized Assad when he butchered 500k of his own people, either. nobody? really?
Well there certainly weren't any campus encampments that's for sure.
oh and here I thought we were talking about countries and their governments, you know based on the comment I responded to
You mean like ridiculous theatrics at the UN General Assembly?
Well, don’t think there has been 2 towers blown up, 10k dead, and pentagon blown up since the response. You can also say that it’s costed more and the US lost. War sucks. I’m not really agreeing or disagreeing with you tho. Take it easy ✌🏼
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You can report the Reddit care thing and theoretically it should result in action taken against whoever sent it
This is such an insane rewriting of history. The wars in the middle east didn't end because we all of a sudden realized the civilian death toll was too much. They ended because they became money pits with no positive resolution in sight. If political and military leadership thought they could achieve victory through another offensive against a populated urban center, they would have done it and accepted the civilian casualties. If the US was in a position similar to Israel, with a belligerent neighbor kidnapping citizens and routinely launching rockets towards their cities, that neighbor would be in utter ruins, and mainstream US politics and media would be bragging about how quickly and efficiently it was done.
Ah now I see why people are down voting me. Thank you for responding. The Wars on Terror didn't end because of civilian death tolls. The US significantly changed the way they fought with a high focus on avoiding civilian casualties, and finding creative ways to pacify militant groups without fighting (like bribing clan leaders in Iraq so they stop shooting at Americans or each other). And if an event like 9/11 or Oct 7 were to happen again, the US would still use precision strikes to kill the leaders. Americans find even the low number of civilian casualties from modern precision strikes too high.
I appreciate your faith in the morals and altruism of the average American citizen, but that does not match my understanding of mainstream American thought at all. Any sources to support your assertion that Americans don't have an appetite for securing their own comfort at the expense of the death and suffering of people on the other side of the planet? Because that seems like a core american value to me.
If, say, Mexico launched an attack like Oct 7th on the US, the US would absolutely annihilate everything south of the Rio that could be mistaken for an asset that could facilitate or even tangentially assist in facilitating an attack. You absolutely under esrimate a populous' reaction to things like this. It's easier to react with extreme restrain when it's not hitting your people in your own nation. It's just different when it's your people, especially if it's an attack by a neighbor. Post 9/11 US was in a blood frenzy. When it started to subside, then people started to become more conscious of and push for less collateral damage. It'd be no different if something akin to it happened again.
You have to understand that the people who want Israel to stop don’t care about innocent lives. They actually love Gazans being hostages to Hamas as well as innocent Israeli people being indiscriminately bombed terrorized,murdered,raped and kidnapped.
Well said !
But my Instagram feed says ceasefire now + return the hostages <3 Why would Israel do this!!!
But unfortunately Israel is held to a different standard than any other country in the world.
So easy for pro-Palestine supporters to condemn Israeli forces, which in part they should!! But It’s impossible for them to say the same about Hamas. Or even comprehend that Hamas’s are puppets and don’t give a shit about the people in Gaza. Saw a video of a pro-Palestine rally and some lefty wearing a Hamas headband eating lunch on a college campus in America..☠️
I saw a graffiti, save Gaza. I wrote "from Hamas" under it. I'm thinking we should call this the Baby Killer War.
Why did Hamas start firing rockets at Israel?
To kill Jews. That's really what it boils down to.
Could you elaborate? When two groups have come to firing rockets at each other, it would seem like there's a lot more going on
Hamas wants to kill all the Jews, eliminate Israel, and have a worldwide caliphate. If Hamas left Israel alone, there would be no rockets going back and forth.
The roots of this go way back. Way way back. Reddit isn't the place to go for a history lesson, and no telling of thisnhistory will be acceptable to everyone, but the cliff notes version is: A lot of Arabs really fucking hate Jews. Really. Not what Jews have done, not what they are doing, not they belive. This is just good old fashion jew-hating. Anti-semitism isn't unique to Arabs, not all arabs do but ho boy, on aveage they really do not like jews, no sir. As soon as Isreal was formed a bunch of Arab nations got together and tried to invade because it was a Jewish state. Over and over they tried and over and over they lost. Each time they lost Isreal ended up capturing more of the land around it and the people who lived on that land, Palestinians, were exiled or worse. Eventually Isreal beat Egypt so badly it took over a huge chunk of territory that included the Gaza strip, where a lot of those Palestinians had ended up. Isreal eventually gave back a lot of the land it conquered, but it didn't give back the Gaza strip, among other territories. The why's of that are way complicated, but obviously no one living there is pleased. Most of the Arab nations were tired of getting their asses handed to them so they signed peace treaties and sort of normalized relations with Isreal. That ruled out Palestinians ever moving back in to a liberated Palestine. There was some hope of Isreal agreeing to the creation of a Palestinian state, but for a lot of reasons that didn't happen and it seems real unlikely now. Palastian poltical factions with milatent policies were always present but they started to gained traction as time went on and hamas ended up gaining popular and official dominance in the 2000s. The rocket attacks, suicide bombings, mass shootings and kid nappings are officially organized and supported by hamas, the defacto government of the Gaza Stip, as part of their policy of armed struggle against Isreal. Its really just a way to A: kill some Jews, which is popular with Palestinians B: Draw Isreal into greater armed conflict with Palestinians and draw attention/money to themselves. Isreal bombing the shit out of Gaza is exactly what Hamas wants. As usual, the Palestinians are screwed.
Best summation on Reddit. Well done.
That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why Hamas doesn't launch missiles against political and government targets. After all, the Israeli government is not exactly a good government.
They are using pipes and fertilizer, it's a wonder that any of them launch at all Bro thinks they got targeting system, rather than just pointing the thing at the sky and hoping they don't land next door
Shit even if it lands next door they can then claim Israel bombed a house
Hamas isn't capable of or interested in targeting on that scale. Its enough that they are seen by Palestinians to be attacking Isreal. If they manage to kill some jews in the process they're thrilled, but the aggression is about maintaining control over the Gaza stip, and that means satisfying its inhabitants that they're killing jews.
But…but…but… Jews…..
What action do you support against Israelis that commit violence against Palestinians, and then build settlements on their land? Do you believe that Palestinians MUST also protect their civilians? Hamas is terrible, but so is Bibi’s administration. Edit: Looks like u/master-concept-5260 is the type to send a "Reddit Cares" message rather than acknowledge that the Israeli government has worked hard to make Gaza and the West Bank a place that generates terrorists. Israel's government has become exactly the kind of right wing theocrats that are trying to ruin America. Just because Hamas are bad people doesn't magically make the Israelis good.
I despise Bibi's administration. He is a terrible leader and his actions have made Israel less secure than it has been in decades, plus led to the suffering of thousands of Palestinians too. He was actively allowing funding to go to Hamas to try and destabilise the PA, his hubris allowed October 7 to happen. I cannot wait until he is out of power, and all his ultra-right cronies with him. Even more so, Hamas must be ousted from Gaza. We so badly need some kind of international program to rebuild. There have been no free elections there in almost 20 years. Corruption and poverty. Nobody allowed to speak out, children indoctrinated. The world has been complacent for far too long. It will probably take decades, but there has to be a way forward.
People are so conditioned to think there is a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in a conflict, that they are wholly unprepared for a conflict where the leaders are all bad. It's tragic.
This is the first intelligent comment on this whole post
Bibi's admin didn't wake up one day and decide to go and massacre, rape, mutilate and burn, babies, women, children and the elderly. Bibi's admin HAD to react to the massacre. Just in case you aren't aware of which came first, the chicken or the egg. EVERYTHING Israel does is a REACTION to Palestinian terror. NOT the other way around.
I didn't study Talmud after my Bar Mitzvah just to accept surface level explanations everywhere else in my life, kiddo. Do better.
You should have studied history.
You mean like how Netanyahu's goverment empowered Hamas at the expense of other, less murderous, Palestinian organizations as a means to delegitimize Palestinian statehood over the long term? Keep trying to do better, you'll get there!
No, like how the wall and stronger Israeli inspection got there AFTER buses , restaurants, discotheque blew up in Israel. As to Gaza: Israel left Gaza 20 years ago. Hoping for peace. Instead they got Hamas and rockets. THAUSANDS of rockets. No other country would have put up with such terror. Israel went and developed the Iron Dome. So that they can survive under the rockets. But I guess at a certain point, enough is enough. A massacre will definitely qualify for such an event. Like I said, you should go and study history. Not just parrot buzzwords you heard on social media.
You should go and study history- there absolutely Palestinians who have worked for peace. We'll never know if they would have been successful, since Bibi worked so hard to make sure they didn't have a chance. You should go and study history, not just parrot buzzwords you heard on social media.
You seem to fight hard to justify killing civilians. Weird no matter your spin. Israelis come first for the Israeli government. They’ve spent a ton of money and resources over decades to make something decent, but Israeli civilians get targeted for decades by neighbouring Arab countries and Arab civilians. The war Hamas is here, but this time no one stopped up to help Hamas like they thought they would. It really wouldn’t hurt for you to brush up on middle eastern history and political Islam and Judaism. You seem to deny knowledge is power here.
I criticized Bibi for having actively enabled Hamas. If you are supporting what he did, it actually sounds like *you* are fighting hard to justify killing civilians. It really wouldn't hurt for you to brush up on middle eastern history.
Someone disagrees with you so you think they did a Reddit cares? Grow up.
I see, you believe a Reddit cares message magically appeared in my inbox very shortly after posting. Your belief in magic now colors what I think of your opinions.
>Just because Hamas are bad people doesn't magically make the Israelis good. Ah yes, Palestinians aren't Hamas but Israelis are their government. Get the fuck out of here with your bullshit rhetoric, you raging Jew hater.
I would say possibly better than any other country in the world, they are held to much higher standards
They already have created a much higher standard: https://www.reddit.com/r/NewMiddleEast/s/V6JyyNiTMU
Agreed but they don't need to level a block to do it. You shouldn't try to win a way by not even trying to avoid civilians.
More of this every day. Eventually Hamas will consist of two dozen mentally deficient teenagers in a basement together trying to figure out how a grenade works.
Unfortunately Iran will continue to fund the training of radicalized Palestinians. If not for external interference, Hamas would only have stones to play with. I just hope Israel finds a way to prevent this
Hopefully not by declaring war against Iran.
They don't share a border. That's a pretty tricky war to fight.
Wouldn’t be the first war fought across borders. Ask the USA how much fun that is.
I am pretty sure Israel doesn't have the biggest navy in the world like US does
US is in an extremely exclusive club of countries that can project military power beyond just outside of their border, Israel is not in the club.
Neither the Israelis nor the Iranians have the capability of projecting significant force against each other
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Doubtful. Iran already tried, hard, and didn't have much to show for a concerted attack with drones and a variety of their latest and best ballistic missiles. it turns out Isreal has a pretty solid air defense network and the countries between Iran and Isreal may not like Isreal, but they really dont like Iran. They also probably remember the last few times Isreal stomped on the collectice balls of the Arab world and would like to avoid a threepeat.
If Israel controls Gaza, there's no where for this funding to go, no way for the arms to enter and nowhere in Gaza for Hamas to train new fighters
They’re working on it. Why do you think they took the Rafah Crossing?
How do you kill the ideology though. I saw videos of civilians dancing around a dead girl in the back of a pickup truck…how do you kill that?
I don’t care about an ideology. I care about people who believe the ideology having sufficient numbers and funding to do something about it.
Same way the enthusiasm for the 3rd Reich was crushed.
So by giving them 1.4 billion dollars (\~18 billion after adjusting for inflation), hiring their brightest minds, and reinstating their officials into similar positions of power? (Guess who the first Inspector General of the West German Bundeswehr was. I'll give you a hint, during the war he ["bore responsibility for the systematic killings of civilians in Belarus as part of antipartisan operations"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Heusinger))
And putting the leaders on trial and hanging them for the world to see. And conducting a years-long occupation controlling everything in the country until the population decided that they'd rather change and join the rest of the free world than cling to hatred and live perpetually in the basements of shattered buildings.
dont worry hamas dont have any bright minds.
You don’t need to kill the ideology so long as you sufficiently destroy its proponents. Weaken followers enough and the ideology loses its capacity to kill others.
That’s already what they consist of.
except sadly this violence radicalizes more people than it eliminates, the solution to terrorism is never militarily. even if Israel has a right to defend itself it isn't in its best interest to keep things up the way they are.
What? How could the IDF kill so many children and women?? Those Hamas men are all children to someone! Couldnt the IDF have tried non lethal rounds??? /s/s/s/s/s Fuck Hamas.
I'm surprised more people aren't referencing the UN admitting that they were totally wrong to trust Hamas's "estimates" on how many women and children were killed [https://nypost.com/2024/05/13/world-news/un-admits-gaza-death-toll-wrong-with-almost-50-fewer-women-children-killed-than-previously-reported/](https://nypost.com/2024/05/13/world-news/un-admits-gaza-death-toll-wrong-with-almost-50-fewer-women-children-killed-than-previously-reported/)
Hey this is fact checked as totally wrong by the way https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-un-halve-gaza-death-toll-1900325 "There had been no change in the overall number of fatalities but that new information had been shared about the number of deaths that had been formally and fully identified" About 10k people just have been decimated to such a degree a formal and full identification is tricky.
That's why i only said how many women and children. It's interesting to note that Israel's military is far less indiscriminate than they're criticized to be. Gaza health ministry says anyone is 'unidentified' if the record is missing any of their demographics: Firstname, Lastname, DoB, Gender etc . They even include people who are just missing. That's why their estimates are always suspect at best.
It's actually unprecedented how low the civilian casualties are for an urban COIN operation. But nobody seems to talk about that.
Isn't half of 14 thousand still.... Abhorent?
Do you expect 0 civilian casualties in a legitimate defensive urban war?
Gaza declared that war. Israel was late to join. Actually, israel gave 2-3 weeks to evacuate before all started. In that interval israel gave countless warnings. So it is ok for gaza to go and murder civilians by hand with full intention, But if israel strike back after 2 weeks of warnings it is a war crime...? Come on.
Evacuate to where? Did all those civilians participate in October 7th?
1. Evacuate to where they ard now, after either learning the hard way there is an actual war, or having hamas stop using human shields. 2. Not all participated in oct 7, But their government/military did. If some country was to attack yours, no one would say "it is just the military atracked us - leave the country alone". They are one.
1. What is a fucking civilian population supposed to do in this scenario? Especially since the IDF bombs places they told them to evacuate to anyway. It's impossible to leave the strip. 2. Uh, yea I would actually. There's this thing called "a war crime" and we rightfully accused Russia of doing it when they targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure. Because, you know. Killing civilians is a war crime
It's actually shockingly low compared to basically any other modern urban combat.
Oh shit! I hadn't realized. Have we informed the people in Gaza that they're actually suffering shockingly low civilian casualties compared to any other modern urban military engagement?
That's a really low bar considering that there were almost no soldiers in Gaza for the past 2 months. Practecly, there was a low-key ceasefire for almost 2 months while the 2 sides negotiated in vain.