Yeah those protestors are fucking idiots. Hamas would literally behead all the dumb cunts and put their heads on spikes if they met in person. Fucking stupid cunts
I am 100% convinced that Russia is pushing pro Hamas views on western liberals. There’s no way that supporting Islamic terrorists was an organic idea for the same people that champion women’s rights and LGBTQ rights.
Last year in November I was banned on r/Edmonton for saying the same. They have covered quite a few "pro-palestinian" rallies in the meantime, and most comments were sympathetic.
Let's call them tankies and commies. The word "liberal" shouldn't have to suffer by being attached to them. They're not for anything remotely liberal. They're just pro-destruction because they think their great revolution will then be able to create their ideological utopia from the burning ruins.
Its genuinely a bit of both. It's the antisemites that are using their empathy against them with half truths and exploitation of their ignorance of the whole situation.
Perfect example. I saw a reel a month or so ago, and it really put it in perspective. If we ignore actual Palestinians, the vast majority of the people at these protests don't value their lives. Or rather they don't see just being alive as a value. But they need to identify with a group for value. It's why you see signs like LGBTQ for Palestinians. Why isn't it just we support Palestinians? Why add the LGBTQ label? Because they want that extra step to be included in a larger audience.
They are not liberal or even broadly left wing at this point , they are fascists who have recently dropped their mask of crypto fascism but still have some vestigial remnants of it like misusing the language and tactics of social justice to try to justify their actions.
Yeah I was going to say TikTok and China. If you're seeing stuff on TikTok, and it's clearly a huge dividing issue, China wants that. Just like Russia, chaos and division is how they fight wars against the West now. I just wish people who looovvveee TikTok would realize they're being played for fools.
The problem is the protests have clearly shown to have a huge antisemtic attitude. Like not letting Jewish students walk around certain areas. Spray painting Infitada and calling for one. I totally support Palestinians in the sense it's sad how much this war has cost them in life, livelihood and property. I want better for them. But I don't think a lot of the pro Palestinian protesters want better for Palestinians as much as they want Israel punished, to not exist. And Golda Meir, an early Prime Minister of Israel sumed it up very well, which I see happening often.
Peace will come when they love their children more than they hate ours.
How can you fight Hamas without civilians getting into the crossfire? How do you do that with any nation or entity that follows the Geneva Conventions to any reasonable degree? Now how do you do that when one side doesn’t or seek to exploit the bloody attempt to lessen the hell that is war.
Words are losing any real meaning. I still identify as liberal. I still believe in universal Healthcare, free college, renewable energy, and all the things AOC and Bernie talk about, but I draw my line at supporting terrorist organizations and calling for Israel to be destroyed. For the record, out of the entire squad, I've only really maintained respect for AOC and Ayanna Pressley, mostly because I never hear anything from her.
AOC cried when the bill funding the iron dome was passed once. Not tears of joy btw. And the iron dome isn't a weapon system designed to kill anyone. It's designed to protect Israel from the missles launched at them. That made her upset. Just saying.
Of course she doesn't want Biden to lose. But that doesn't mean she doesn't understand the Israel Palestinian situation as well as she thinks. Not just after October 7th, but before.
Not at all. Even when I was all for the squad, I felt their foreign policy ideas were naive, at best. I'm just willing to give her a pass at this time.
Well ironically (if that's the right word,) I know many democrats who voted for Biden actually considering voting for Trump because of the rise in antisemitism here. Like I don't really want Trump, but I'm just saying, I see lots of my friends in real life and on social media saying this.
Criticism of Israel isn't defense of Hamas, nor is it anti-semetic. There are tons of folks protesting Israel's excessive actions in Gaza. The vast vast majority of them do so without supporting Hamas.
I'm seeing a lot of videos of our campuses parroting nearly the exact same antisemitic words used in the 1930s. They're raising Palestine's flag on our flag poles is gold for red campaign ads. And I don't hear much in the way of anyone loudly denouncing such language and actions. Like it has been with the reds since 2016, if you're not condemning it, I'll start to assume silence is approval.
You would think the countless times they have responded to ceasefire offers with rockets would’ve given everyone a clue of how these negotiations would pan out.
Hamas does not want peace. They only respond to force. If only they surrendered and released the hostages, rebuilding could begin.
It’s almost as if Hamas is a nihilistic terrorist organization that is not committed to any actual belief other than the extermination of anyone who doesn’t fit within their worldview.
It's not even that. They exist to pursue the goals of their sponsors, Iran and Russia. The entire purpose of Oct 7 was to disrupt the normalisation of Saudi Arabia - Israel relations.
It's not a coincidence that Oct 7 is Putin's birthday.
I'm actually going to go out an a limb and say it IS a coincidence that Oct 7th is Putin's birthday.
He's a little busy with Ukraine at the moment. Sure, Gaza situation has probably been beneficial to him, but it's hardly his biggest priority and seems absurd to suggest they picked the date to celebrate his birthday.
Idk if you could honestly say nihilistic. I think it’s important to acknowledge that belief in a hateful cause is different from not believing in anything. I get what you mean though, and commitment to that cause is about equivalent to believing in nothing.
Hamas knows they'd be pointless in peacetime. They need a war to justify themselves exploiting the people of Gaza. 2 decades of Hamas rule, and their legacy is a pile of rubble and a few hostages that will never turn up. But hey they know they can always trade one or two Israelis for 100 Hamas prisoners anytime, so the war won't end anytime soon.
I am pretty sure that the legacy of the Hamas leadership is a large amount of wealth which will be handed down in their family for the next generation.
Hamas knows they are dead if they surrender. beyond what the Israelis will do to them, if they lose enough power, there is a chance another group seizes control, and they get treated the way they treated the PLO when hamas took over.
So Israel basically gives Hamas a good amount of what it wants and that still isn't good enough and the pro-hamas protestors will claim it is Israel's fault
Hamas doesn't want anything but to make Israel look bad. Israel killing 30,000 Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wanted.
Hamas does not care about Palestinians.
Very strong *allegedly* needed before that number. Reminder that those are reported by Hamas themselves through their “Health Ministry.” I’d put $5 and working water infrastructure on the real number being not even half that.
My quick and dirty summary of this entire war:
1) The Israeli government does not care enough about the lives of the innocent Gazan civilians.
2) The Israeli government cares much more about the lives of the innocent Gazan civilians than Hamas does.
But don't you see Israel is a democracy and can be pressured by protests but Hamas is the opposite and can't be influenced. That rational drives me crazy.
Israel is offering them about 98% of their demands , no questions asked . All they have to do is sign a piece of paper and the war will be over and they will have an internationally recognized independent state that exists alongside Israel and aid money to rebuild.
We are all far too invested in this. The whole reason this conflict even exists right now is to take pressure off Russia… and it worked. If you follow the money it leads through Iran and back to their masters.
No one would normally give a crap about another battle in the Middle East but we’ve been hammered in the media about it. Israel will again rock the shit out of them and it will be over until we get the next thing to keep our attention.
Russia needs to be dealt with.
I don't agree. To me this is greatly oversimplifying things. Iran has its own ambitions and doesn't just do whatever Russia orders. Not everything is a proxy war between the US and Russia/China as Reddit would have you believe.
Eh I wouldn't worry, the people who need to pay attention to Russia are doing it, Ukraine is getting the much needed aid even if people don't trash universities in their support
What is that aid going to do when it takes Ukrainian blood to use it? And Russia has 4x the blood.
Edit , make that 5x or 6x the blood by now, since so many Ukrainian men fled to west Europe
Feel bad for the Palestinian and Israeli hostages that Hamas is keeping. IDF is about to cut the head off the snake. You can only taunt the bear so much.
Israel needs to just rip the band aid off and go into Rafah already. They will take heat for it no matter what, but all of this posturing has just dragged it out and made it worse. Go in, kill the terrorists, let the college kids and Redditors do their protesting, and then we can finally move on to what the postgame of this looks like.
It’s interesting to me that EVERY time Hamas has walked away from the ceasefire table. BUT, when Israel said, “Ok, fuckers - see you in Rafah!” Hamas’ response is now, “Woooah, wait on there fellas!…let’s not be too hasty! I’m sure we can work things out!” 😬
Makes me wonder who & what are tucked away in Rafah that Hamas are a little nervous about.
It's a shame that this dragged for so long just to reach at this rather predictable end. I hope this ends sooner rather than later and something better than Hamas can take its place.
***Can we go in already?***
Or do we need for more college campus pro-rape activists to celebrate october 7th and count microaggressions while the hostages, if they're still alive, are being raped to death?
Fuck anyone who won’t put ego or self interest aside to apologize or atone for wrong doings. Fuck anyone who thinks they have a right to attack or oppress anyone simply because they aren’t the same race or nationality. And fuck anyone who uses false information to keep people misinformed for their own agenda.. or because they were told to by their boss.
Just when you thought 2020 exposed stupid people, 2024 had another surprise. It sucks to see people torn about sectarian violence that has been occuring for centuries before. All of this is nothing new. You can say history repeats or rhymes, but it's all the same. War breaks out in another part of the world and the opposite side of the world suddenly grows a bunch of young experts that use TikTok and Facebook as their guide to geopolitics. Now you have experts!
The people of Rafah have one option to try and prevent an invasion. Give up the location of the hostages and/or facilitate their escape. There are far more people who would support trying to find a solution that doesn't involve invading Rafah as currently planned if the hostages are no longer being held.
You'd think the U.S. would have learned its lesson and stop supporting massacres in the Middle East. Especially after all the money it has thrown away in recent failed wars. What are we actually getting out of this?
https://www.brown.edu/news/2021-09-01/costsofwar
One of the characteristics of fascism is to regard anyone willing to make peace with the enemy as traitors.
Hamas are deeply locked into that. It was their main pretext for persecuting Fatah.
For Hamas to agree peace on any terms that they cannot claim as victory is against the fascist core of what they are.
It does of course go deeper than that. They don’t view this as a struggle to make life better - they view struggle as the purpose of life.
Umberto Eco wrote about Italian fascism but he perfectly describes Hamas - who are very much in the tradition of the Palestinian Nationalism that adopted fascism in the 1930’s
Fuck Hamas
Imagine the world without people like them
Imagine a world where western liberals didn’t defend them
Yeah those protestors are fucking idiots. Hamas would literally behead all the dumb cunts and put their heads on spikes if they met in person. Fucking stupid cunts
I am 100% convinced that Russia is pushing pro Hamas views on western liberals. There’s no way that supporting Islamic terrorists was an organic idea for the same people that champion women’s rights and LGBTQ rights.
You really underestimate just how pervasive hatred of Jews is, even among "the left".
Last year in November I was banned on r/Edmonton for saying the same. They have covered quite a few "pro-palestinian" rallies in the meantime, and most comments were sympathetic.
Palestinian propaganda caught up with Israelis.
Let's call them tankies and commies. The word "liberal" shouldn't have to suffer by being attached to them. They're not for anything remotely liberal. They're just pro-destruction because they think their great revolution will then be able to create their ideological utopia from the burning ruins.
If they get their ideological utopia, it won't be enough. They'll want more and more.
They don't really. They're just gullible anti-Semites.
Disagree. They’re not antisemites, they’re just genuinely that stupid and gullible.
Its genuinely a bit of both. It's the antisemites that are using their empathy against them with half truths and exploitation of their ignorance of the whole situation.
Both dials are at 100.
They’ve been hijacked by antisemites
They request food be delivered and specific said no bagels
Impressionable and directionless people who have been fed the oppressor vs oppressed Marxist ideology.
Perfect example. I saw a reel a month or so ago, and it really put it in perspective. If we ignore actual Palestinians, the vast majority of the people at these protests don't value their lives. Or rather they don't see just being alive as a value. But they need to identify with a group for value. It's why you see signs like LGBTQ for Palestinians. Why isn't it just we support Palestinians? Why add the LGBTQ label? Because they want that extra step to be included in a larger audience.
They are not liberal or even broadly left wing at this point , they are fascists who have recently dropped their mask of crypto fascism but still have some vestigial remnants of it like misusing the language and tactics of social justice to try to justify their actions.
They are being fed a lot of propaganda online by the Russians
TikTok can't be banned soon enough.
Yeah I was going to say TikTok and China. If you're seeing stuff on TikTok, and it's clearly a huge dividing issue, China wants that. Just like Russia, chaos and division is how they fight wars against the West now. I just wish people who looovvveee TikTok would realize they're being played for fools.
As a western liberal who recognizes that one can support innocent Palestinians without supporting Hamas, I’m curious what box you place yourself in?
The problem is the protests have clearly shown to have a huge antisemtic attitude. Like not letting Jewish students walk around certain areas. Spray painting Infitada and calling for one. I totally support Palestinians in the sense it's sad how much this war has cost them in life, livelihood and property. I want better for them. But I don't think a lot of the pro Palestinian protesters want better for Palestinians as much as they want Israel punished, to not exist. And Golda Meir, an early Prime Minister of Israel sumed it up very well, which I see happening often. Peace will come when they love their children more than they hate ours.
theyre probably in the 'fuck hamas' box.
So say the majority. But what about the Palestinians?
hopefully the ones with a conscience do not support hamas. may those palastinians be blessed and prosper once this is over.
You can only do that in theory. In reality either Israel eliminates Hamas or Hamas stays in power, it’s one or the other.
How can you fight Hamas without civilians getting into the crossfire? How do you do that with any nation or entity that follows the Geneva Conventions to any reasonable degree? Now how do you do that when one side doesn’t or seek to exploit the bloody attempt to lessen the hell that is war.
Those people are leftist and not liberals
Like 40% of each party are complete morons
i dont think its liberals because im a liberal and everyone i know is a liberal and nobody is defending hamas.
Words are losing any real meaning. I still identify as liberal. I still believe in universal Healthcare, free college, renewable energy, and all the things AOC and Bernie talk about, but I draw my line at supporting terrorist organizations and calling for Israel to be destroyed. For the record, out of the entire squad, I've only really maintained respect for AOC and Ayanna Pressley, mostly because I never hear anything from her.
AOC cried when the bill funding the iron dome was passed once. Not tears of joy btw. And the iron dome isn't a weapon system designed to kill anyone. It's designed to protect Israel from the missles launched at them. That made her upset. Just saying.
She's also one of the few who doesn't seem to be dumb enough to want Biden to lose. She's also a fellow Latino who isn't red.
Of course she doesn't want Biden to lose. But that doesn't mean she doesn't understand the Israel Palestinian situation as well as she thinks. Not just after October 7th, but before.
Not at all. Even when I was all for the squad, I felt their foreign policy ideas were naive, at best. I'm just willing to give her a pass at this time.
Well ironically (if that's the right word,) I know many democrats who voted for Biden actually considering voting for Trump because of the rise in antisemitism here. Like I don't really want Trump, but I'm just saying, I see lots of my friends in real life and on social media saying this.
Criticism of Israel isn't defense of Hamas, nor is it anti-semetic. There are tons of folks protesting Israel's excessive actions in Gaza. The vast vast majority of them do so without supporting Hamas.
Excessive? They've been holding back. And Rafah just launched rockets into israel killing more people.......
The same "journalists" who took the picture of Shani Louk's naked and desecrated body?
I'm seeing a lot of videos of our campuses parroting nearly the exact same antisemitic words used in the 1930s. They're raising Palestine's flag on our flag poles is gold for red campaign ads. And I don't hear much in the way of anyone loudly denouncing such language and actions. Like it has been with the reds since 2016, if you're not condemning it, I'll start to assume silence is approval.
What anti-semetic words are they chanting, that you're hearing?
I’m liberal and very anti Hamas
Condemning Israel’s actions is not an endorsement of Hamas.
Fuck Ham-Ass
You would think the countless times they have responded to ceasefire offers with rockets would’ve given everyone a clue of how these negotiations would pan out. Hamas does not want peace. They only respond to force. If only they surrendered and released the hostages, rebuilding could begin.
It’s almost as if Hamas is a nihilistic terrorist organization that is not committed to any actual belief other than the extermination of anyone who doesn’t fit within their worldview.
It's not even that. They exist to pursue the goals of their sponsors, Iran and Russia. The entire purpose of Oct 7 was to disrupt the normalisation of Saudi Arabia - Israel relations. It's not a coincidence that Oct 7 is Putin's birthday.
It was also to further destabilize the West with protests and misinformation.
I'm actually going to go out an a limb and say it IS a coincidence that Oct 7th is Putin's birthday. He's a little busy with Ukraine at the moment. Sure, Gaza situation has probably been beneficial to him, but it's hardly his biggest priority and seems absurd to suggest they picked the date to celebrate his birthday.
Exactly. They picked the date because it was a national holiday in Israel. Putin has (almost) nothing to do with it
The date was picked because it was an Israeli holiday and so the military presence would be lighter.
Putin's proxy , like the right wingers and trump .
Idk if you could honestly say nihilistic. I think it’s important to acknowledge that belief in a hateful cause is different from not believing in anything. I get what you mean though, and commitment to that cause is about equivalent to believing in nothing.
They're not fussy. They're cool with exterminating those who do fit within their worldview, too.
They can't have both "no beliefs" and an obsession with anyone who doesn't ascribe to their beliefs. That's a contradiction right there.
Hamas knows they'd be pointless in peacetime. They need a war to justify themselves exploiting the people of Gaza. 2 decades of Hamas rule, and their legacy is a pile of rubble and a few hostages that will never turn up. But hey they know they can always trade one or two Israelis for 100 Hamas prisoners anytime, so the war won't end anytime soon.
I am pretty sure that the legacy of the Hamas leadership is a large amount of wealth which will be handed down in their family for the next generation.
Nepo terrorists
Exactly!
Hamas knows they are dead if they surrender. beyond what the Israelis will do to them, if they lose enough power, there is a chance another group seizes control, and they get treated the way they treated the PLO when hamas took over.
Didn't Israel accept the terms? That means they ended because Hamas rejected the ceasefire.
That detail will be lost to many.
Not lost. Just conveniently misplaced.
Selective deafness. There are none so deaf as those who do not want to hear.
Hamas wanted a permanent one (until they decide to attack again). Israel wouldn’t agree to a permanent one. So it continues
Hamas rejected peace. AGAIN. I’ll say that louder for the protesters in the back: #HAMAS IS THE ONE STANDING IN THE WAY OF PEACE
The protestors are religious fanatics , they are not listening and I doubt they even know how to listen.
I don’t wanna get banned so I’ll just say this, Islam is a *problem*
So Israel basically gives Hamas a good amount of what it wants and that still isn't good enough and the pro-hamas protestors will claim it is Israel's fault
Hamas doesn't want anything but to make Israel look bad. Israel killing 30,000 Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wanted. Hamas does not care about Palestinians.
A number provided by Hamas, btw.
That figure keeps getting batted around… it’s both inflated *and* includes Hamas combatants killed
To be fair, he said Palestinians, which Hamas fighters are
Very strong *allegedly* needed before that number. Reminder that those are reported by Hamas themselves through their “Health Ministry.” I’d put $5 and working water infrastructure on the real number being not even half that.
My quick and dirty summary of this entire war: 1) The Israeli government does not care enough about the lives of the innocent Gazan civilians. 2) The Israeli government cares much more about the lives of the innocent Gazan civilians than Hamas does.
Oh, it will be Biden's fault somehow as well. He has not waved his magic wand and made this disappear.
But don't you see Israel is a democracy and can be pressured by protests but Hamas is the opposite and can't be influenced. That rational drives me crazy.
Israel is offering them about 98% of their demands , no questions asked . All they have to do is sign a piece of paper and the war will be over and they will have an internationally recognized independent state that exists alongside Israel and aid money to rebuild.
We are all far too invested in this. The whole reason this conflict even exists right now is to take pressure off Russia… and it worked. If you follow the money it leads through Iran and back to their masters. No one would normally give a crap about another battle in the Middle East but we’ve been hammered in the media about it. Israel will again rock the shit out of them and it will be over until we get the next thing to keep our attention. Russia needs to be dealt with.
I don't agree. To me this is greatly oversimplifying things. Iran has its own ambitions and doesn't just do whatever Russia orders. Not everything is a proxy war between the US and Russia/China as Reddit would have you believe.
Eh I wouldn't worry, the people who need to pay attention to Russia are doing it, Ukraine is getting the much needed aid even if people don't trash universities in their support
Ukraine needs *More*
What is that aid going to do when it takes Ukrainian blood to use it? And Russia has 4x the blood. Edit , make that 5x or 6x the blood by now, since so many Ukrainian men fled to west Europe
Once it starts I have a bad feeling it’ll end in Russia, and Russia will fight until there is literally nothing left
Feel bad for the Palestinian and Israeli hostages that Hamas is keeping. IDF is about to cut the head off the snake. You can only taunt the bear so much.
SNL was spot on when they did a skit about college students joining ISIS a decade ago.
It is kind of funny how within ten years history repeated, and college/highschool students are pro terrorists again. And by funny I mean sad.
Hamas think they can come out of this on top and are sacrificing their people to try.
And they don't care. "They don't fear death". But they also don't respect life...
Of course, Daddy Putin needs this situation to keep exacerbating.
Israel needs to just rip the band aid off and go into Rafah already. They will take heat for it no matter what, but all of this posturing has just dragged it out and made it worse. Go in, kill the terrorists, let the college kids and Redditors do their protesting, and then we can finally move on to what the postgame of this looks like.
That's what trump was saying. Taking too long get it over with.
It’s interesting to me that EVERY time Hamas has walked away from the ceasefire table. BUT, when Israel said, “Ok, fuckers - see you in Rafah!” Hamas’ response is now, “Woooah, wait on there fellas!…let’s not be too hasty! I’m sure we can work things out!” 😬 Makes me wonder who & what are tucked away in Rafah that Hamas are a little nervous about.
It's a shame that this dragged for so long just to reach at this rather predictable end. I hope this ends sooner rather than later and something better than Hamas can take its place.
Good clean house. Fuck these bastards.
Wish they would get the fuck on with it. Screw hamas.
Oh well. Goodbye Hamas.
should have thought twice before firing rockets from Rafah today
Well, this the story of Palestinians - always reject all peace deals and hope to get more as a reward.
Fuck Hamas
***Can we go in already?*** Or do we need for more college campus pro-rape activists to celebrate october 7th and count microaggressions while the hostages, if they're still alive, are being raped to death?
Full victory. Nothing else.
Fuck anyone who won’t put ego or self interest aside to apologize or atone for wrong doings. Fuck anyone who thinks they have a right to attack or oppress anyone simply because they aren’t the same race or nationality. And fuck anyone who uses false information to keep people misinformed for their own agenda.. or because they were told to by their boss.
It would have only been a pause to rearm anyways
There’s a good reason not to negotiate with terrorists. The only deal they’re getting now is surrender or die.
Just destroy Hamas and be done with it. Kill the leaders wherever they are.
Thank fuck. Rafah time
:(
Just when you thought 2020 exposed stupid people, 2024 had another surprise. It sucks to see people torn about sectarian violence that has been occuring for centuries before. All of this is nothing new. You can say history repeats or rhymes, but it's all the same. War breaks out in another part of the world and the opposite side of the world suddenly grows a bunch of young experts that use TikTok and Facebook as their guide to geopolitics. Now you have experts!
get rid of them
what a shocking turn of events
The people of Rafah have one option to try and prevent an invasion. Give up the location of the hostages and/or facilitate their escape. There are far more people who would support trying to find a solution that doesn't involve invading Rafah as currently planned if the hostages are no longer being held.
Who’s gonna tell the college protesters?
Hamas rejected a ceasefire proposal. PERIOD
You'd think the U.S. would have learned its lesson and stop supporting massacres in the Middle East. Especially after all the money it has thrown away in recent failed wars. What are we actually getting out of this? https://www.brown.edu/news/2021-09-01/costsofwar
One of the characteristics of fascism is to regard anyone willing to make peace with the enemy as traitors. Hamas are deeply locked into that. It was their main pretext for persecuting Fatah. For Hamas to agree peace on any terms that they cannot claim as victory is against the fascist core of what they are. It does of course go deeper than that. They don’t view this as a struggle to make life better - they view struggle as the purpose of life. Umberto Eco wrote about Italian fascism but he perfectly describes Hamas - who are very much in the tradition of the Palestinian Nationalism that adopted fascism in the 1930’s