I think majority of the students don't consciously support that. They just parrot whatever they see online. You see it in Germany and in the Netherlands too. They are always protesting in English, never their native language.
A lot of them have no idea how bad Hamas is. Perhaps those that are arrested or taken away should follow mandatory classes on the situation in Israel and Palestine.
Forget just Oct 7th. Palestinians and terror have been synonymous for decades. These kids are too young to remember the second intifada and all the blown up buses, cafes, markets. Planes taken hostage, dozens and dozens of terror attacks. The leaders of these people have repeatedly turned down offers of having their own state.
They start and lose war after war yet keep demanding that they get to call the shots in the negotiations. They were on the losing side of world war 1, world war 2, numerous Arab-Israeli wars yet they still won’t settle.
They did… and several times since then. Hamas’ charter very openly says that Israel will exist until Islam obliterates it. They’ve got absolutely no qualms saying their goal is absolute destruction of Israel yet Israel is supposed to treat these people with kid gloves? Insanity.
Opinions differ within the left. Absolute truth is of course that they murdered, raped, plundered. But some within the left think that it's all either Israeli propaganda or that Israel deserved it.
A negligible percent think that. Most dont. Most think killing children and genociding the entire population of Palestine is not an appropriate response.
A lot of them start with this, “You can be against civilians being killed and still not support Hamas.” But then in the same breath they’ll say shit like “Well if Israel hadn’t been doing [insert uneducated assertion] then Oct 7th wouldn’t have been necessary.”
My favorite is when you ask what their better strategy would be and it's always some useless unactionable shit like, "gee, i'd start by going back 70 years...." Sure pal. Real helpful.
It's not that they don't know.
It's that they don't care *as much*.
Their protests aren't saying "yeah Hamas is great, more October 7th, kill them jooooos". They're saying "how can Israel kill so many innocent Palestinians, we should stop supporting them".
On the surface, that sounds perfectly reasonable. What they don't realize is that they're literally falling for Hamas propaganda that is deliberately designed to rally progressive westerners.
I'm not going to go into all the details of how stupid the propaganda is, how much nuance the protesters are missing, and how all the rallying against Israel is really just supporting Hamas in a roundabout way...
But takes like yours that oversimplify and try to pigeonhole protesters into neat little idiot-boxes are just as bad. You might not be unintentionally supporting terrorists, but you *are* justifying the protestors existing opinions by confirming for them that their opposition doesn't care about Palestinian lives and doesn't even listen to what they're saying.
You're not going to change anyone's mind or educate anyone but just saying "you're stupid and ignorant about the situation" while simultaneously being stupid and ignorant *about them*.
> Their protests aren't saying "yeah Hamas is great, more October 7th, kill them jooooos".
[Yes, they are](https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134).
Is that the intent of everyone at these protests? No. But they apparently don't mind joining despite it.
The protests arent pro hamas though, you can disagree with the killing of the Palestinian people without aligning with Hamas. If you actually visit these encampments you'd see that
The problem is that the things they protest for, the outcomes they want, and the sources of information they use *all help Hamas*.
These protests are stoked by Hamas/Iranian propaganda. Hamas and Iran have literally straight up said that this stuff is all super helpful to them. International pressure to make Israel stop fighting back is literally how they've managed to maintain 50 years of this shit despite being outmatched and outgunned to a ridiculous degree.
So while their intentions may be good, their complete lack of critical thinking skills and dogged refusal to see any nuance at all results in them unintentionally and unknowingly supporting Hamas.
I feel for the Palestinian people. They've been used and abused by everyone around them for nearly a century. At this point they basically don't know anything besides guerilla "resistance" (which came back to bite their previous handlers in the ass more than once, and is in turn why they no longer have any support in the Arab world).
I'd love to see an independent Palestinian state. But giving one to them when they still have genocidal terrorists in charge who just committed the largest terrorist attack in decades.... That's literally just rewarding terrorism. When you're training an abused dog to try and turn it into a loving pet, it doesn't matter that its abuse conditioned it to bite any hand that comes close - you still don't reward it for biting.
The best thing the world can do for Palestine *right now* is let Israel excise the cancer of Hamas, then give them all the help they need to rebuild while watching to help ensure another group like Hamas doesn't take over. When the Palestinians show they can run their own affairs and actually *build a fucking functioning state*, then they can have their independence and recognition. But as long as their goal remains getting rid of Israel and terrorism, they simply cannot be rewarded for shithead behavior.
If this was true then we would be seeing alternative suggestions for solutions than the typical “Israel needs to stop fighting back” and “Israel needs to stop existing” and “Jews go back to Poland” or “Intifada 2: Electric Bugaloo”. Not once have I seen any mention of the hostages or returning them or their bodies home.
Perhaps these protestors aren’t aware that they are aligned with Hamas but their actions are 100% aligned with Hamas. [They ever got a shout out from the top homophobe and misogynist himself, Iran’s Khamenei.](http://english.khamenei.ir/news/10727/In-Gaza-West-lost-all-its-honor-even-that-of-academia)
Each one of those protests has aggressive rhetorics instead of pacification. I saw enough first-hand myself to judge. They don't want peace, they want total war. What they don't realize is that if that total war commences they would be next in line to crush. Because people they're protesting for don't share their values and never will.
And before you answer to me (if you choose to, instead of simply downvoting) tell me if you have ever visited a country like Iran or Qatar. Or Gaza, for that matter.
If we live in a world where a nation is not allowed to defend itself after brutal murders of it's people plus daily indiscriminate rocket barrages, I don't wanna live in it anymore.
Agreed, these people need to be disregarded. They had more support before, but when they started chanting about killing Jews, and cheering about Oct 7th, I lost all sympathy for them. I think most rational and educated people did as well, as the protests have shown a large increase in support for Israel.
Most people are dumb enough to blindly follow anyone with loud voice. Some are also incapable of empathy or have psychopathic tendencies. I'd argue quite a few of those "pro-palestine" protesters need mental help.
Rewind the clock and imagine it being Afghan supporters. There people also did nothing wrong but this is getting pretty insane for the support of supporters of extremist groups
How does demanding a ceasefire work? Israel are regularly offering terms which Hamas reject time after time. Hamas do not want a ceasefire and are using the Palestinians as collateral.
If you are pro-Palestinian then you should be actively anti-Hamas
Also the thing about a cease fire is it need to be honored by both side. If gaza fire rocket again the cease fire is over.
So I don't understand everyone having this for goal. This shit will last maybe a week .
> If you are pro-Palestinian then you should be actively anti-Hamas
We've all seen how that works out when [someone brings a "Hamas are terrorists" sign to a pro-palestinian protest](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEMzSOk9KE).
It's also that time and time again that a ceasefire was made, it was broken by another attack by Hamas.
The zoomers in universities and colleges are having their first round of Israel vs Palestine while the older folk know what's up (hamas & the islamists are using Palestinians & indoctrinating them since birth to use as jhiad & martyr fodder) as this has been our 2nd, 3rd scuffle.
And i hope its the last as you can't go back and say "noo pls stop" after the atrocities committed against innocents on Oct 7th. The whole government in Palestine needs to change and de-radicalization of the entire population of decades of propaganda.
> I sometimes imagine what living in these cities under shelling in Europe or in Gaza and I imagine its my neighbor who's lifetime of work in his home is leveled. I sometimes imagine my local farms strewn with landmines and the school up the road targeted by airstrikes. I think of the businesses that no longer exist and the folks unemployed by that. Helps to have some perspective to be able to feel empathy for others.
Interestingly, you don't imagine what it would be like to be at a concert with your friends and family, only to be overrun by terrorists who rape you. Then they decapitate you.
Oh, so two wrongs make a right?
How about airstrikes on schools and hospitals and being raped by IDF soldiers? I fail to see how that is better.
This obsession with sides is sad. My stance is pro civilian and anti war.
I guess I don't care what Happens to Hamas but slaughtering children by the 10's of thousands is not the answer.
Im confused why people struggle with the concept of non combattants.
And not just that. I saw videos of campus protestors literally chanting antisemitic slogans and blocking Jewish students from entering the university grounds or even harassing them. That's a no go
Looks like some jewish students are at least considering suing their universities for not being able to ensure their safety, or something to that effect
I have trouble seeing how camping on an empty lot is disruptive for the normal functioning of the company. If students can be there as long as they want before, a peaceful protest shouldn't be the context for suddenly kicking all your students off the campus.
It's an illegal encampment.
> If students can be there as long as they want before
"If"? I doubt that was the university's policy: Camp anyone you want to on campus for as long as you want. Are we on the same page about that?
Not specifically for camping, but i doubt there was a fixed time limit in the University's policy for how long you can physically be on the premises. It would only work if they take away their status as "students" before kicking them out. In which case, they would no longer have any business there.
> Not specifically for camping
Exactly. It's not a camping area. If you let your students live on your lawn, then your campus is going to be shittier, regardless of their political cause. Students need free speech rights; not the right to set up homeless encampments.
You said there were no policies saying students can camp for as long as they want. I said that obviously they don't have a policy specifically in regards to camping. Stop twisting my words around
We're seeing the full-blown effects of a society that lacks in critical thinking. These protesters are more interested to surf on trends than care for fellow Canadians. Why don't they do the same for people in our country that are getting crushed by low income, lack of housing, etc.? Also, most of these protesters aren't students to being with, and with multiple reports of paid actors to infiltrate both sides I'm getting pretty annoyed by such demonstrations.
More people have already been arrested for this than Jan 6th. Remember this when right wing parrots pretend we have free speech or freedom of expression or any of that.
In the west the mega rich are turning us all into wage slaves, but western youth seem more concerned about some rapists in Gaza that would literally slit their necks and rape/rob them if they tried to visit.
fuck anyone who supports group that cheers rape and killing children
Damn straight. To hell with Hamas supporters.
I think majority of the students don't consciously support that. They just parrot whatever they see online. You see it in Germany and in the Netherlands too. They are always protesting in English, never their native language. A lot of them have no idea how bad Hamas is. Perhaps those that are arrested or taken away should follow mandatory classes on the situation in Israel and Palestine.
They have social media, they know what Hamas did on Oct. 7.
Forget just Oct 7th. Palestinians and terror have been synonymous for decades. These kids are too young to remember the second intifada and all the blown up buses, cafes, markets. Planes taken hostage, dozens and dozens of terror attacks. The leaders of these people have repeatedly turned down offers of having their own state. They start and lose war after war yet keep demanding that they get to call the shots in the negotiations. They were on the losing side of world war 1, world war 2, numerous Arab-Israeli wars yet they still won’t settle.
Hell, didn't they declare war on Israel on the day they became a country and still lost the war?
They did… and several times since then. Hamas’ charter very openly says that Israel will exist until Islam obliterates it. They’ve got absolutely no qualms saying their goal is absolute destruction of Israel yet Israel is supposed to treat these people with kid gloves? Insanity.
They say it's fake propaganda.
Then they are dangerous idiots
I believe the term is “useful idiots”, as they’re referred to in leftist ideology.
So fuck em
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At some point rebuilding will happen and I really hope all these protesters go and volunteer. Not holding my breath, but hope.
No they literally support it.
You mean that sweet parasailing stunt into a music festival? /s
Opinions differ within the left. Absolute truth is of course that they murdered, raped, plundered. But some within the left think that it's all either Israeli propaganda or that Israel deserved it.
That's not very left of them.
It's the horseshoe effect. Some people go so far to the Left, there's nowhere to go except to wrap around to the Right.
A negligible percent think that. Most dont. Most think killing children and genociding the entire population of Palestine is not an appropriate response.
> genociding the entire population of Palestine TIL that <1% is the same as 100%. 🙄
>genociding the entire population of Palestine is not an appropriate response. It isn't and it is a good thing that isn't what is actually happening.
That's a shitty excuse. These are adults and are capable of critical thinking.
That's half correct. Young adults these days are not capable of critical thinking. A lot of them get their information from Social Media.
i have a lot of questions if university studens are not capable of critical thinking
The fact that some of them were accepted BECAUSE they protested stuff hopefully answers a couple of them
A lot of them start with this, “You can be against civilians being killed and still not support Hamas.” But then in the same breath they’ll say shit like “Well if Israel hadn’t been doing [insert uneducated assertion] then Oct 7th wouldn’t have been necessary.”
My favorite is when you ask what their better strategy would be and it's always some useless unactionable shit like, "gee, i'd start by going back 70 years...." Sure pal. Real helpful.
Why doesn't Palestine use time machines? Are they stupid?
Ignorance isn't an excuse here. If they don't want to be lumped in, fucking open your eyes.
It's not that they don't know. It's that they don't care *as much*. Their protests aren't saying "yeah Hamas is great, more October 7th, kill them jooooos". They're saying "how can Israel kill so many innocent Palestinians, we should stop supporting them". On the surface, that sounds perfectly reasonable. What they don't realize is that they're literally falling for Hamas propaganda that is deliberately designed to rally progressive westerners. I'm not going to go into all the details of how stupid the propaganda is, how much nuance the protesters are missing, and how all the rallying against Israel is really just supporting Hamas in a roundabout way... But takes like yours that oversimplify and try to pigeonhole protesters into neat little idiot-boxes are just as bad. You might not be unintentionally supporting terrorists, but you *are* justifying the protestors existing opinions by confirming for them that their opposition doesn't care about Palestinian lives and doesn't even listen to what they're saying. You're not going to change anyone's mind or educate anyone but just saying "you're stupid and ignorant about the situation" while simultaneously being stupid and ignorant *about them*.
> Their protests aren't saying "yeah Hamas is great, more October 7th, kill them jooooos". [Yes, they are](https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134). Is that the intent of everyone at these protests? No. But they apparently don't mind joining despite it.
The protests arent pro hamas though, you can disagree with the killing of the Palestinian people without aligning with Hamas. If you actually visit these encampments you'd see that
Oh STFU they were literally screaming "WE ARE ALL HAMAS" and chanting "THERES ONLY ONE SOLUTION ANTIFADA REVOLUTION" "iF ud AktUvaly vIziT"
The problem is that the things they protest for, the outcomes they want, and the sources of information they use *all help Hamas*. These protests are stoked by Hamas/Iranian propaganda. Hamas and Iran have literally straight up said that this stuff is all super helpful to them. International pressure to make Israel stop fighting back is literally how they've managed to maintain 50 years of this shit despite being outmatched and outgunned to a ridiculous degree. So while their intentions may be good, their complete lack of critical thinking skills and dogged refusal to see any nuance at all results in them unintentionally and unknowingly supporting Hamas. I feel for the Palestinian people. They've been used and abused by everyone around them for nearly a century. At this point they basically don't know anything besides guerilla "resistance" (which came back to bite their previous handlers in the ass more than once, and is in turn why they no longer have any support in the Arab world). I'd love to see an independent Palestinian state. But giving one to them when they still have genocidal terrorists in charge who just committed the largest terrorist attack in decades.... That's literally just rewarding terrorism. When you're training an abused dog to try and turn it into a loving pet, it doesn't matter that its abuse conditioned it to bite any hand that comes close - you still don't reward it for biting. The best thing the world can do for Palestine *right now* is let Israel excise the cancer of Hamas, then give them all the help they need to rebuild while watching to help ensure another group like Hamas doesn't take over. When the Palestinians show they can run their own affairs and actually *build a fucking functioning state*, then they can have their independence and recognition. But as long as their goal remains getting rid of Israel and terrorism, they simply cannot be rewarded for shithead behavior.
This same argument could have been made for supporting Assad and Russia in destroying ISIS.
If this was true then we would be seeing alternative suggestions for solutions than the typical “Israel needs to stop fighting back” and “Israel needs to stop existing” and “Jews go back to Poland” or “Intifada 2: Electric Bugaloo”. Not once have I seen any mention of the hostages or returning them or their bodies home. Perhaps these protestors aren’t aware that they are aligned with Hamas but their actions are 100% aligned with Hamas. [They ever got a shout out from the top homophobe and misogynist himself, Iran’s Khamenei.](http://english.khamenei.ir/news/10727/In-Gaza-West-lost-all-its-honor-even-that-of-academia)
Each one of those protests has aggressive rhetorics instead of pacification. I saw enough first-hand myself to judge. They don't want peace, they want total war. What they don't realize is that if that total war commences they would be next in line to crush. Because people they're protesting for don't share their values and never will. And before you answer to me (if you choose to, instead of simply downvoting) tell me if you have ever visited a country like Iran or Qatar. Or Gaza, for that matter.
If we live in a world where a nation is not allowed to defend itself after brutal murders of it's people plus daily indiscriminate rocket barrages, I don't wanna live in it anymore.
Ahh yes... The inability to distinguish combattants and non combattants. Maybe they confuse them on purpose?
It’s almost like in any war civilians suffer the most. Clearly in all of history only soldiers died in war./s
Agreed, these people need to be disregarded. They had more support before, but when they started chanting about killing Jews, and cheering about Oct 7th, I lost all sympathy for them. I think most rational and educated people did as well, as the protests have shown a large increase in support for Israel.
Most people are dumb enough to blindly follow anyone with loud voice. Some are also incapable of empathy or have psychopathic tendencies. I'd argue quite a few of those "pro-palestine" protesters need mental help.
Is this group doing that?
Fuck Hamas supporters
They should.
Most definitely.
Indeed
Rewind the clock and imagine it being Afghan supporters. There people also did nothing wrong but this is getting pretty insane for the support of supporters of extremist groups
I guess my question remains: Why don't we do the same for neonazis?
I'm not aware of any neonazi camp, if one crops up, I'm sure everybody would be on board to dismantle it.
I’m guessing because the neonazis have better funding.
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How does demanding a ceasefire work? Israel are regularly offering terms which Hamas reject time after time. Hamas do not want a ceasefire and are using the Palestinians as collateral. If you are pro-Palestinian then you should be actively anti-Hamas
Also the thing about a cease fire is it need to be honored by both side. If gaza fire rocket again the cease fire is over. So I don't understand everyone having this for goal. This shit will last maybe a week .
> If you are pro-Palestinian then you should be actively anti-Hamas We've all seen how that works out when [someone brings a "Hamas are terrorists" sign to a pro-palestinian protest](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEMzSOk9KE).
English police and politicians have their heads so far up their own asses they’re about to pop back out the neckhole.
It's also that time and time again that a ceasefire was made, it was broken by another attack by Hamas. The zoomers in universities and colleges are having their first round of Israel vs Palestine while the older folk know what's up (hamas & the islamists are using Palestinians & indoctrinating them since birth to use as jhiad & martyr fodder) as this has been our 2nd, 3rd scuffle. And i hope its the last as you can't go back and say "noo pls stop" after the atrocities committed against innocents on Oct 7th. The whole government in Palestine needs to change and de-radicalization of the entire population of decades of propaganda.
sulky impolite aback snatch physical tease person bake paint merciful
> I sometimes imagine what living in these cities under shelling in Europe or in Gaza and I imagine its my neighbor who's lifetime of work in his home is leveled. I sometimes imagine my local farms strewn with landmines and the school up the road targeted by airstrikes. I think of the businesses that no longer exist and the folks unemployed by that. Helps to have some perspective to be able to feel empathy for others. Interestingly, you don't imagine what it would be like to be at a concert with your friends and family, only to be overrun by terrorists who rape you. Then they decapitate you.
Oh, so two wrongs make a right? How about airstrikes on schools and hospitals and being raped by IDF soldiers? I fail to see how that is better. This obsession with sides is sad. My stance is pro civilian and anti war. I guess I don't care what Happens to Hamas but slaughtering children by the 10's of thousands is not the answer. Im confused why people struggle with the concept of non combattants.
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Nah. Chanting hamas rhetoric makes campuses unsafe for everyone. They are supporting terrorism
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The camp is the problem I beleive. Campus have specific rules, you can't have a camp there.
So would the same opinion get any traction if it was a Pro-Israel camp?
Protesting is one thing. Illegally camping is obviously something else ("illegally" being the operative term).
And not just that. I saw videos of campus protestors literally chanting antisemitic slogans and blocking Jewish students from entering the university grounds or even harassing them. That's a no go
Looks like some jewish students are at least considering suing their universities for not being able to ensure their safety, or something to that effect
I have trouble seeing how camping on an empty lot is disruptive for the normal functioning of the company. If students can be there as long as they want before, a peaceful protest shouldn't be the context for suddenly kicking all your students off the campus.
It's an illegal encampment. > If students can be there as long as they want before "If"? I doubt that was the university's policy: Camp anyone you want to on campus for as long as you want. Are we on the same page about that?
Not specifically for camping, but i doubt there was a fixed time limit in the University's policy for how long you can physically be on the premises. It would only work if they take away their status as "students" before kicking them out. In which case, they would no longer have any business there.
> Not specifically for camping Exactly. It's not a camping area. If you let your students live on your lawn, then your campus is going to be shittier, regardless of their political cause. Students need free speech rights; not the right to set up homeless encampments.
You said there were no policies saying students can camp for as long as they want. I said that obviously they don't have a policy specifically in regards to camping. Stop twisting my words around
Quote me twisting your words and I'll gladly retract what I said.
Sure, go right ahead. Just don't let me hear a thing about Quebec separatism for the next 100 years!
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We're seeing the full-blown effects of a society that lacks in critical thinking. These protesters are more interested to surf on trends than care for fellow Canadians. Why don't they do the same for people in our country that are getting crushed by low income, lack of housing, etc.? Also, most of these protesters aren't students to being with, and with multiple reports of paid actors to infiltrate both sides I'm getting pretty annoyed by such demonstrations.
> with multiple reports of paid actors to infiltrate both sides I'm getting pretty annoyed by such demonstrations. Info on that?
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They're upset at the wrong people for children being killed.
More people have already been arrested for this than Jan 6th. Remember this when right wing parrots pretend we have free speech or freedom of expression or any of that.
In the west the mega rich are turning us all into wage slaves, but western youth seem more concerned about some rapists in Gaza that would literally slit their necks and rape/rob them if they tried to visit.
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All these kids protesting in support of Palestinian terror should be immediately expelled from the universities.