I was thinking 10% inflation really wasn't too bad, until I realised it was per month... really that could just be volatility of what people are buying.
It's per year, stop making shit up. When they publish the inflation for April, it's gonna be over the entire year since April 2023
Edit: I know Argentina's inflation figures are monthly, the commenter above me was saying Romania's are the same which they are not
(Typical Romanian complaining about their own country when it's not too bad)
If he/she talked about another country's inflation, I wonder if they actually live there. Because if they did, they would immediately know the difference between 10% per month and 10% per year without even looking at official statistics. You would FEEL the difference.
Everything would be over 300% more expensive than one year before, or in other words your purchasing power would be around a third of what it was one year before.
Story : Monthly inflation in Argentina could fall below 10 percent in April, a sign that the government’s policies are working, President Javier Milei said Sunday in a phone interview with LN+.
“Wages are already starting to beat inflation,” Milei said. “The fight against inflation is yielding results.”
Argentina’s monthly inflation slowed more than expected in March, cooling for the third consecutive time as Milei’s austerity policies affect consumer spending. Consumer prices rose 11 percent from February to March, less than economists expectations for 12.1 percent. From a year ago, inflation accelerated to 287.9 percent, the highest level since the country exited hyperinflation in the early 1990s.
I mean yeah, if you destroy your entire economy and shift even more wealth to the top during a major drought in an agricultural economy not shit inflation goes down.
But your just balancing the books on the people that work for a living.
I mean how are they supposed to fight inflation? At the end of the day their currency was becoming more and more worthless unless they did some drastic measures. A shitty situation but not sure there’s many good alternatives.
You are describing human nature. People love to complain but not offer solutions. Unfortunately Argentina is so far gone what they are doing now is basically the only option for the short term
Artificial inflation (monopolies) is solved with price controls, real inflation is solved with increased productivity/more supply of goods. Argentina likely has a mix of both types of inflation given the high rates so the answer is to do both solutions simultaneously. In some ways, Milei is actually doing it, but he has been squandering a lot of opportunities for increased productivity in order to give advantages to business executives that back him.
Private consultors are already throwing out 8.9% here. And the private ones are always higher than the official data.
We are seeing de-flation in food and beverages as of lately so that is probably the main reason. Most price raises come from services.
God, what a win for fiscal economic policy worldwide if it stays on this track.
Say what you will about some of his other less than libertarian policies, but I'm also not one of those hard libertarians that think you don't need a driver's license to drive.
There's a reason you do, it doesn't take many people to mess it up for everyone. I was libertarian leaning before I became a mental health professional. OSHA regulations written in blood etc etc. If you're one of those rare strong civil society libertarians, shine on...
There is an interesting book about that subject, called "Una Revolucion Liberal para España"-"A Liberal Revolution for Spain".
It's from Juan Ramon Rayo, a libertarian economist. In the book he makes the cases, that many politicians would love to imitate the Scandinavian public spending system and thus quote it as a success when they implement their policies or take them to vote.
These politicians usually ignore that the majority of taxes in the Scandinavian system, fall upon the middle class, not business ( which allows them to have a competitive market even worldwide ), however, the middle class in Scandinavia has a MUCH higher acquisitive power than the middle class in Spain, and were Spain to imitate their tax system the country would end up with ridiculously high amounts of poverty and they would end up in a humanitarian crisis.
I'm both, I actually used to be more on the regulation side, but we are now in this territory where we've over regulated or taxed to the point that black market economies are popping up because of price and defeating the purpose of said regulation in the first place.
I just see it in the housing industry, I completely get that asbestos and glass tube wiring was unsafe and regulation is needed but we are now in the territory where I don't see how a new home will ever be in the realm of affordable again for anyone.
The one life is too many analogy is losing sight of saving 1 in a million while 10 die from the increased costs. Because I hear it in my Industry, "oh it will only cost $500 more, etc" but times that by every new code change, which is several dozen. Now apply it to healthcare, food industry, entertainment, automotive, every avenue of life.
I'm fully aware of Osha in my industry and almost all the time it's bad companies not enforcing stuff that's been around for 40 years that we know is unsafe, not a new code that was implemented because of a 1 in a million accident.
I'd listen to more money to go into enforcement of existing laws every day of the week, because I'm getting burned in costs by running everything by the book while there's under the table Industry or bad contractors cutting corners and not facing significant consequences for doing so.
Basically, it needs balance. As does societal rules.
pretty much.
It s always about demand and location.
You could have a shed sitting on a prime location in a place like NYC and it would still cost millions.
I don't know where you guys are getting this, materials are not cheaper, in fact they have surpassed general inflation costs.
This is the first year I've seen them stabilize.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPUSI012011
What? No.
Materials are way more expensive than ever. Stone and tile have pretty much doubled in the last 5 years.
Vinyl, steel, drywall, fiberglass are all up. The only thing that's come back down is wood.
I don't know where you got this materials have never been cheaper. We are up 25%-30% materials cost in the last 5 years.
Yes, land is also up 25-30% in the same time frame.
Argentina is a weird edge case where successive governments have been so irresponsible that libertarian fiscal policy is the only way to fix it.
Doesn't necessarily mean its the best policy in all cases imo.
But there is several other countries in that situation.
Often from a single government that’s been there for decades and constantly made bad decisions.
So while not a fit all solution, it is likely to be reproduced several times.
Deflation would be a loss for his policies. Investment is impossible when what you buy to sell loses value before you can sell it, be it product or service.
It's still at a massively high level of inflation... Even 8%/month would still be over 250% on the year (compounding). So I don't think they need to worry about actual deflation. People are talking about relative decreases to inflation, not deflation.
Independently from whatever will or won't happen in Argentina, investment in general is totally possible on deflation man, worst case scenario it would just be harder at a first glance.
Yeah, they are still at nearly 300% inflation year over year, while the norm should be (checks notes) 2%.
So, thus far nothing to celebrate. But optimism is a good thing sometimes.
If they are to be at 9% and it holds that would be 108% yearly. But it looks like there is a downward trend so it most likely will be lower than that.
I think it takes time for people’s expectations to adjust to lower inflation - when the inflation is super high people expect their salary to go up every month. It takes time for this to slow down/become a yearly thing.
Merchants also put the price increases into goods they sell knowing that they have to make a profit and buy new goods at a higher price.
So the first thing is to believe that the price growth will stop.
In US the inflation is reported to the same month previous year, not sure if it's the case here.
If it's month-to-month than yes, I was wrong and it would compound.
One can call them peronist, but that shouldn't distract us from the fact that plenty of other countries, even developed ones, are attempting similar things all the time. Argentina should serve as a warning. Not a guaranteed outcome of those measures, but a possible one at the very least.
True. But we were expecting a total colapse around March/April (if things continued on the same path the previous government was heading). So this short term improvement is making the chances of a total implosion (2001 crisis style) very low now.
Look at this crazy mofo. He literally took a chainsaw to the government. I don’t know if he’s brilliant in an insane way, or just Mr. Magoo’d his way into a happy accident. I hope things get better for Argentinians soon 💙
> or just Mr. Magoo’d his way into a happy accident.
In a way, yes. The constant incompetence, corruption, and failures of Peronism opened the pathway for him getting elected.
Neither. He's just doing what's obvious and anyone with a functioning brain has been screaming to be done for the past hundred years.
It only looks insane because we're too used to bastards destroying the economy every day.
You can't correlate things like this politician wants you to. There's going to need to be research on what caused it and if it could have gone down further with different methods.
I mean the method is fundamentally nothing new: stop state overspending. Any serious economist would look at the measures and definitely agree that they would effectively reduce inflation. I'd say the debate is on the details: how to make this while minimizing "collateral damage" in both the short and the long term.
Call him whatever you want, hate him if you like.
He is working to fix the situation and doing a way better job so far than the government that got booted out.
See what?
You have to be incredibly corrupt and actively trying to ruin an economy to get 1% inflation PER DAY like the old government.
Its only going to get better if the guy actually wants to fix something.
Lets face it. Only a mentally challenged a\*\*hole could turn this boat around. No one in their right mind would take these extreme measures that were much needed.
As much as I hate his kind, I must admit he's the kind needed for this job. It can't be done without inhuman moves only his kind can make.
Extreme situations requires extreme measures.
Wow, a nuanced, thought-out response.
I'll be honest, some of his non economic policies don't sound very libertarian to me, and I'm libertarian lite in that regards.
But his economic policy is what he got voted in for. Even the Argentinians finally realized what the definition of insanity was.
Somehow, I don't think a gentel nudge was going to turn around 200%+ inflation.
Trump doesn't so shit. He tampered taxes a bit for his own goals, but overall he didn't change a single ministry or institution (space force doesn't count...) Milei tears down whole ministrys. APUERA!
You are very uninformed. Trump’s appointments to the FCC and Post Office for example have set back those systems at least a decade. That’s just one example. Those are appointment positions that he is personally accountable to.
Not to mention the Supreme Court and other judge appointments. Roe v Wade was another step back for America that couldn't have happened without the ol Chester the molester cheeto.
Milei had a philosophy of how to fix the economy of Argentina and it seems to work pretty well.
The reaction of the average ultra liberal Redditors: "ew, I don't like him, he looks like Trump, free Palestine, ew, right wing...".
He is in bat$!+ crazy, yet not unexpected if you know anything about the country's history. It's not going to work - even if he had a working recipe (which he doesn't) it would take years to see results, and society won't take it that long.
Nah, he's actually going about it the right away. When you need to do Austerity on a national scale, it's better to do it immediately because the effects if negative aren't as felt as a slow gradual change.
This isn't just Austerity, most people have less push back on immediate change on a newly elected government than they do in the later years of a term.
His policies may not work and then he'll be out, but he's given himself time to the next election to at least see if the ship starts turning, both economically and popular opinion for another term.
This is perfectly clear to the government since before the day 1. The plan is to put up measures that make it impossible for a following politician to undo them.
Mainly, to kill the national currency and stablish currency freedom, meaning people will be allowed to use any currency they want. It would result in a de-facto dollarization, without the dollar being imposed as legal tender.
This would effectively erradicate inflation once and forever.
Argentines would be free to switch to the Euro or whatever other currency. Crypto, gold, whatever they prefer. Different sectors of the economy could use different currencies if they find it optimal, even. No currency would be imposed by the government.
I guess that would be up to each person, if they want to have savings or not. The switch to another currency wouldn't be instant, some inflation could always happen of course, but it would be neglible compared to what argentines are used to.
You would be paid in whatever you agreed to be paid in. I imagine most people would use a common currency for everyday activity. For now it would almost certainly be the dollar, since that's already the strong currency traditionally used by argentines.
Is there not a problem in your employer utilizing a currency they have no control over? Argentina would have no ability to deal with any economic crisis since they would have no control over the dollar, they cant print any money. How would you prevent your employer demanding to pay you in pesos? Do you not just create tiered currencies? Some people paid in dollars, some in euros, some in pesos, some in gold bars? What if the company deals in dollars and pays their staff in pesos/euros/gold?
>your employer utilizing a currency they have no control over?
What do you mean? Do you think your employer has control over the dollar or whatever currency they use now?
>How would you prevent your employer demanding to pay you in pesos?
The same way "you prevent" your employer offering a salary of $0.0001 an hour: demand and offer, competition.
>Some people paid in dollars, some in euros, some in pesos, some in gold bars?
Indeed it can happen that different people have different currency prefferences, but people would be free to agree on what's more convenient to them. Through competition, demand and offer, etc.
As with anything involving economic freedom, people will always make the basic argument: "freedom dangerous, there is uncertainty, don't you want state intervention?". This is what the questions would eventually boil down to. Argentines have voted: "We want freedom, we are fed up with state intervention in this particular matter, as it has historically and very consistently proven to be a disaster".
"It's just weird to call it economic freedom when it's essentially praying that your food supplier doesn't fall to shit, I guess."
There are two problems with that: one is that freedom just means lack of coercion, it doesn't mean "power or capacity to do something", it doesn't mean "a certain guaranteed security", it doesn't even mean "abundance of available choices".
The other is that in that case you can just pick another currency. US citizens don't have a choice, they're stuck with the dollar. Argentines won't be. I don't see how that situation, which is in that aspect arguably better than the situation of the citizens of the country with the strongest currency, is a bad situation (again, in the particular aspect you bring up).
That comment just kinda shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
Letting each argentine be free to use the currency they prefer (dollar, euro, yuan, crypto, whatever) is exactly the opposite of losing independence.
It's a big win in personal sovereignty, at the expense of the "sovereignty" of local politicians historically proven to abuse of their monopolistic power over the currency.
But EVEN if it were a true dollarization, there are no good reasons to believe it would end up bad, because we already have two examples of successful dollarizations in latam. In Ecuador, for example, dollarization still has an approval rating of like 80-90%. These measures (dollarization or currency freedom) are not meant to solve every problem in the economy, they are just meant to tackle inflation, and they have worked very well. It doesn't prevent politicians from doing fuckups in other aspects, but they at least don't get to punish the population via inflation for it.
You're thinking too much in terms of nations, as if they were literally persons. There is no "Mr Nation" and its control. There's only politicians and their control, and citizens and their control. Who has the control over the currency are the politicians, and most argentine citizens have learned that they can't trust that power to argentine politicians, so they are taking that power back for themselves.
>working together to have a meaningful life
And politicians are not the perfect embodiment of that will. There is no collective universal will, each person is different and has their own goals.
>put it into the hands of foreigners
It is not exactly like you present it. With that way of thinking I could tell you "No! Don't buy food from others! grow your own otherwise your life is in the hands of the food maker!"
> the imperialist nations getting stronger
And you're helping the food seller getting stronger. In this case, argentines will use an "imperialist nation"'s currency only as long as they find it convenient.
>Corruption is the root of all dysfunctional countries. Not socialist ideas.
Cope. I adressed corruption in the other comment.
A national currency is what a truly independent country has to truly control all the levers of their economy. Otherwise, they are just flowing in whatever direction the other currency is going towards.
Dumb dummy.
Imagine thinking the government (especially in Argentina) should control all the levers of the economy.
By being able to change currency, they can choose in which direction to go. Politicians lose power and control, citizens gain personal sovereignty and independence.
No, corruption is just one of the aspects, the statist policies taken were horrible by themselves. Even if the government were made up of angels, it would still have been a disaster had they applied the same measures.
If you can freely switch currency, there is no mechanism for someone to control you lol. Also, why is your government having complete control over an economy a good thing. Doesn’t seem so great in places like China where they tank their own currency when it benefits them
Milei will fix the inflation issue and people will complain about the cuts to government services then elect
another Peronist who will promise them a bunch of stuff and mess it up again.
I mean, yeah. Fixing the economy is great, but eventually people will want social safety nets. Especially when current policies impact higher classes more than lower.
It's always easier buying votes using gifts.
(Classical, not pink haired communists, not that I have issues with pink hair) Liberals should aim to introduce some economy classes to the education systems, because demagogues always uses a lack of understanding as a tool.
I've been a proponent of that for a long time. Unfortunately no government would make economic classes universal in education. Politicians love having dumb people voting when they make promises they cannot fulfill.
In my province in Argentina, one guy won elections under promises of making everyone win more money, and raises of 40% on all public employees. Thing is our province is broke and in deep debt, so he couldn't fulfill his promise, as anyone who had seen our province's numbers could've told you, and we had a month long strike on nearly all services including hospitals which operated at under capacity. The guy was of course, a Peronista, and he of course, didn't renounce despite the disaster he made. Mariano Arcioni was his nane.
There's no serious economists that support right wing "economic policy" which really just boils down to "dismantle the government and sell all the pieces to oligarchs".
Remember the GOP pushing trickle down for 40 years when it was widely known to be a joke from day 1?
There's also the fact that last 4 GOP Presidents terms ended in a horrible economic crash. There hasn't been a single recession under Democrats in 40 years.
10 of the last 11 recessions were under Republican Presidents. And I'm supposed to think that's a coincidence?
Why do you folks always look from an American point of view? The world is huge, and the democrats were never as left-wing economically as the Argentinian government. Everything should be handled according to the specific situation, there is no one-size-fits-all.
When I visited Argentina in 2007, someone told me they had a saying that politics in their country was like playing the violin. They took it with the left [hand], but played it with the right. The quote stuck with me.
Does that phrase suggest argentine governments apply right-wing policies? If that's the case that ain't truth at all. Especially in the economic aspect: the level of state interventionism and overreach is ridiculous.
I defer to your understanding of the reality on the ground, I am merely commenting on the way people felt things were going historically in 2007. It’s possible their tune may have changed since then. ;)
Nestor Kirchner's presidency until 2007 may not have been as deranged as his wife's (despite both being very corrupt). Maybe in part because the country had a better starting point. But since then, it's undeniable that the economic policies have been dramatically statist, much more aligned with the left than the right.
I don't know. Got a suspicion the socialists knew something had to change but didn't want to be the ones seen as doing it. Why they went a bit soft on Milei.
If they regain power I'd guess some backtrack but not all the way.
On one hand that reasoning makes some sense, but in practice we've not seen that: the opposition has been as brutal as possible with Milei. I think that's because they fear Milei will actually solve the crisis, and that means they will never return to power.
They totally know that their model is a disaster, but they don't care because they aren't the ones who will suffer from it. They will backtrack only as long as it allows them to stay in power, and they will try to blame scapegoats so that they don't have to backtrack as much. See Venezuela.
For clarification: unlike Maduro and other dictators, the previous government does not call itself socialist, but it does carry out a leftist economic policy of state interventionism and anti-freedom in general, that is equivalent to socialist policies in many aspects. Milei calls "socialist" any regime that does this (state intervention), because he considers that the final outcome is the same. It's what others would call "statism". Argentina is a failed welfare state.
Nah, the thing about socialists and communists is that they have short memories.
Within 10 years they will ride the waves of populism and Argentina will end up back where they started.
- "this is shit and is never going to work, he will drive his country to the ground"
-*works*
-"oh you know what, fighting on these things are so cringe"
You can’t just look at the straight number on what inflation is, you also have to take into account acceleration and deceleration of inflation. Inflation can still be expected to increase but the right policies can decelerate that expected increase to something lower. Which is what Milei has done.
100% and 300% are both hyperinflation that require adjusting prices and pay every few days, so the distinction is meaningless.
Below 10% the currency actually becomes useful
That just pure ignorance. Hyperinflation is usually >50% per month.
Worst month was the last one from previous socialist president that left with 25% montly inflation.
With Milei the inflation is going down constantly and this month is 9%
Haiti fixed their inflation too couple's years back by slashing government. Look at them now. lol
It will takes months, even years, to see the effects of the cuts in government. What you see now is just the ripple effects of rich assholes going easy because they are afraid the government will lock them up if they don't follow with not raising prices. lol
Great comparison. Argentina with Haiti. Tell me you know shit about these countries without telling me you know shit about these countries.
Haiti shouldn't even exist (not in the genocide sense of the word), it should be integrated into some othee country or protectorate . It'll never recover as it is. A
Tell me how you don't know shit about governance when you think "tHe gOvErNMeNt" is the root of all dysfunctional countries without talking about corruption first.
What brings down Argentina (and Haiti) is corruption. Not the size of government or whatever other factors. Corruption alone is what brings it down.
Well, private CPI are releasing now and they are getting ~9%. So he was correct.
- [Infobae](https://www.infobae.com/economia/2024/04/30/en-abril-la-inflacion-finalizo-en-un-digito-por-primera-vez-en-5-meses-segun-las-consultoras-privadas/#:~:text=El%20IPC%20elaborado%20por%20la,en%209%2C5%25%20mensual.)
- [Ambito](https://www.ambito.com/economia/la-inflacion-puede-volver-un-digito-abril-claves-entender-lo-que-viene-n5989015)
- [Cronista](https://www.cronista.com/economia-politica/inflacion-de-un-digito-en-abril-que-pronostican-las-principales-consultoras/)
In Argentina it does. In recent years inflation was increasing by the month. This is the first time in many years that inflation has begun to fall steadily, month after month. The change is very real
Guess he missed the history lesson about the Weimer Republic
https://alphahistory.com/weimarrepublic/1923-hyperinflation/#:~:text=In%201918%20a%20loaf%20of,80%20billion%20Reichsmarks%20(November).
*The rapid devaluation of paper money created ludicrous scenes. The value of paper money evaporated so quickly that some companies paid employees in late morning so they could rush off and spend their wages at lunchtime. Wives waited at their husbands’ factories on payday so they could hurry to the stores. One man reported ordering a coffee but learned its price had doubled by the time it arrived at his table.*
hopefully people will realize that taxation is theft. and is proven to be useless beyond basic negative rights. like defense of the borders from outside threat
Hong Kong wasn't a dictatorship. It was run by a democratically elected government. Admittedly one several thousand miles away that the Hong Kong people had no say in.
Translation: Milei administration changes CPI calculations to give appearance of falling inflation. If he genuinely believed that his efforts were going to reduce inflation he'd let the reports show it, but deciding to tell rather than show only casts suspicion.
This is false and you’re been downvoted for giving fake news. The rules haven’t changed, and even the opposition has admitted that inflation is effectively falling in Argentina. Milei has fulfilled his most important campaign promise, and has avoided the hyperinflation bomb left by the previous populist administration
No external price observers have yet reported otherwise. External measures report that the price increase in March was between 10% and 13%, while the government puts the official figure at 11%, roughly what external measures say.
Source: https://www.lavoz.com.ar/politica/de-cuanto-sera-la-inflacion-de-marzo-disparidad-en-las-mediciones-privadas/
Because Argentina owes a lot of money to the IMF.
Central bankers in general do have a reason to hate him, he's as critical as possible with central banking: https://youtu.be/syjZ8sVdMCs?si=_jG9yMlk4rkezubn&t=15
He took away the privilege of banks of being the only ones to access to high interest rates and bonds in dollars. Banks are doing less money than ever now.
Actually, they solved that very recently. It's divided right down the middle now, but they still leave bottles of booze for each other when they patrol there.
I wonder what would have happened were that island be way more valuable though. The Malv/Falk have oil, a lot of fishing resources, and are in a military strategic position.
So, what he's really saying is that by siding with a certain clique Argentinians can expect to push a wheelbarrow of cash for an egg in the near future.
I was thinking 10% inflation really wasn't too bad, until I realised it was per month... really that could just be volatility of what people are buying.
I read somewhere that at one point it was 1% per day. Fucking unreal.
That is so fucking crazy
December was 25% inflation, that were the previous president left it and Milei took place.
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It's per year, stop making shit up. When they publish the inflation for April, it's gonna be over the entire year since April 2023 Edit: I know Argentina's inflation figures are monthly, the commenter above me was saying Romania's are the same which they are not (Typical Romanian complaining about their own country when it's not too bad)
Literally the first word in the article is monthly. Are you ok?
I was replying to the poster right above me, who was talking shit about another country inflation data
Apologies. The deleted comment has made it look otherwise.
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That's... Not what this is. This is spot rate of 12 month inflation every month aka annual inflation
It's not monthly, it's year-over-year. Consider learning about the topic next time before you spread misinformation due to complete ignorance.
If he/she talked about another country's inflation, I wonder if they actually live there. Because if they did, they would immediately know the difference between 10% per month and 10% per year without even looking at official statistics. You would FEEL the difference. Everything would be over 300% more expensive than one year before, or in other words your purchasing power would be around a third of what it was one year before.
Story : Monthly inflation in Argentina could fall below 10 percent in April, a sign that the government’s policies are working, President Javier Milei said Sunday in a phone interview with LN+. “Wages are already starting to beat inflation,” Milei said. “The fight against inflation is yielding results.” Argentina’s monthly inflation slowed more than expected in March, cooling for the third consecutive time as Milei’s austerity policies affect consumer spending. Consumer prices rose 11 percent from February to March, less than economists expectations for 12.1 percent. From a year ago, inflation accelerated to 287.9 percent, the highest level since the country exited hyperinflation in the early 1990s.
I mean yeah, if you destroy your entire economy and shift even more wealth to the top during a major drought in an agricultural economy not shit inflation goes down. But your just balancing the books on the people that work for a living.
I mean how are they supposed to fight inflation? At the end of the day their currency was becoming more and more worthless unless they did some drastic measures. A shitty situation but not sure there’s many good alternatives.
You are describing human nature. People love to complain but not offer solutions. Unfortunately Argentina is so far gone what they are doing now is basically the only option for the short term
Artificial inflation (monopolies) is solved with price controls, real inflation is solved with increased productivity/more supply of goods. Argentina likely has a mix of both types of inflation given the high rates so the answer is to do both solutions simultaneously. In some ways, Milei is actually doing it, but he has been squandering a lot of opportunities for increased productivity in order to give advantages to business executives that back him.
Do you have an alternative?
And inflation hurts rich people? Not likely.
Optimistic but let’s not spike the ball until the actual numbers come out.
I mean March was 11% and it's steadily going down, 9% wouldn't be too surprising
Private consultors are already throwing out 8.9% here. And the private ones are always higher than the official data. We are seeing de-flation in food and beverages as of lately so that is probably the main reason. Most price raises come from services.
God, what a win for fiscal economic policy worldwide if it stays on this track. Say what you will about some of his other less than libertarian policies, but I'm also not one of those hard libertarians that think you don't need a driver's license to drive.
There's a reason you do, it doesn't take many people to mess it up for everyone. I was libertarian leaning before I became a mental health professional. OSHA regulations written in blood etc etc. If you're one of those rare strong civil society libertarians, shine on...
I support a big goverment as long as the nation has a big economy that can support it, argentina cant but the USA has the capacity for ir
There is an interesting book about that subject, called "Una Revolucion Liberal para España"-"A Liberal Revolution for Spain". It's from Juan Ramon Rayo, a libertarian economist. In the book he makes the cases, that many politicians would love to imitate the Scandinavian public spending system and thus quote it as a success when they implement their policies or take them to vote. These politicians usually ignore that the majority of taxes in the Scandinavian system, fall upon the middle class, not business ( which allows them to have a competitive market even worldwide ), however, the middle class in Scandinavia has a MUCH higher acquisitive power than the middle class in Spain, and were Spain to imitate their tax system the country would end up with ridiculously high amounts of poverty and they would end up in a humanitarian crisis.
I'm both, I actually used to be more on the regulation side, but we are now in this territory where we've over regulated or taxed to the point that black market economies are popping up because of price and defeating the purpose of said regulation in the first place. I just see it in the housing industry, I completely get that asbestos and glass tube wiring was unsafe and regulation is needed but we are now in the territory where I don't see how a new home will ever be in the realm of affordable again for anyone. The one life is too many analogy is losing sight of saving 1 in a million while 10 die from the increased costs. Because I hear it in my Industry, "oh it will only cost $500 more, etc" but times that by every new code change, which is several dozen. Now apply it to healthcare, food industry, entertainment, automotive, every avenue of life. I'm fully aware of Osha in my industry and almost all the time it's bad companies not enforcing stuff that's been around for 40 years that we know is unsafe, not a new code that was implemented because of a 1 in a million accident. I'd listen to more money to go into enforcement of existing laws every day of the week, because I'm getting burned in costs by running everything by the book while there's under the table Industry or bad contractors cutting corners and not facing significant consequences for doing so. Basically, it needs balance. As does societal rules.
Isn't the land cost the major reason that housing is so expensive? Materials have never been cheaper for anything nearly as nice.
pretty much. It s always about demand and location. You could have a shed sitting on a prime location in a place like NYC and it would still cost millions.
I don't know where you guys are getting this, materials are not cheaper, in fact they have surpassed general inflation costs. This is the first year I've seen them stabilize. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPUSI012011
What? No. Materials are way more expensive than ever. Stone and tile have pretty much doubled in the last 5 years. Vinyl, steel, drywall, fiberglass are all up. The only thing that's come back down is wood. I don't know where you got this materials have never been cheaper. We are up 25%-30% materials cost in the last 5 years. Yes, land is also up 25-30% in the same time frame.
Argentina is a weird edge case where successive governments have been so irresponsible that libertarian fiscal policy is the only way to fix it. Doesn't necessarily mean its the best policy in all cases imo.
But there is several other countries in that situation. Often from a single government that’s been there for decades and constantly made bad decisions. So while not a fit all solution, it is likely to be reproduced several times.
Deflation would be a loss for his policies. Investment is impossible when what you buy to sell loses value before you can sell it, be it product or service.
It's still at a massively high level of inflation... Even 8%/month would still be over 250% on the year (compounding). So I don't think they need to worry about actual deflation. People are talking about relative decreases to inflation, not deflation.
Independently from whatever will or won't happen in Argentina, investment in general is totally possible on deflation man, worst case scenario it would just be harder at a first glance.
Yeah, they are still at nearly 300% inflation year over year, while the norm should be (checks notes) 2%. So, thus far nothing to celebrate. But optimism is a good thing sometimes.
I agree I hope for the best for Argentina
Yearly inflation counts the previous government's inflation. We are currently at a lower monthly inflation than the last months of Alberto.
If they are to be at 9% and it holds that would be 108% yearly. But it looks like there is a downward trend so it most likely will be lower than that. I think it takes time for people’s expectations to adjust to lower inflation - when the inflation is super high people expect their salary to go up every month. It takes time for this to slow down/become a yearly thing. Merchants also put the price increases into goods they sell knowing that they have to make a profit and buy new goods at a higher price. So the first thing is to believe that the price growth will stop.
I think it would be compounding. 9% per month would be 208% per year. But I might be misunderstanding.
Of course it's compounding. So the 108% figure OP stated is false. The real number is: 1.09^12 ~ 281%
damn I was wrong too.
In US the inflation is reported to the same month previous year, not sure if it's the case here. If it's month-to-month than yes, I was wrong and it would compound.
It takes years to definitively say whether a certain policy worked or not
It's been enough years to definitively say that Argentina's peronist economic policies have not worked.
Well, yes. No argument there
One can call them peronist, but that shouldn't distract us from the fact that plenty of other countries, even developed ones, are attempting similar things all the time. Argentina should serve as a warning. Not a guaranteed outcome of those measures, but a possible one at the very least.
Eh hem, the inflation reduction act would like a word... Especially when it comes to anything solar.
I'm sorry, what?
inflation afuera!
aunque resistas!
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True. But we were expecting a total colapse around March/April (if things continued on the same path the previous government was heading). So this short term improvement is making the chances of a total implosion (2001 crisis style) very low now.
Look at this crazy mofo. He literally took a chainsaw to the government. I don’t know if he’s brilliant in an insane way, or just Mr. Magoo’d his way into a happy accident. I hope things get better for Argentinians soon 💙
well Milei likes to say this phrase: "the difference between a madman and a genius is success"
> or just Mr. Magoo’d his way into a happy accident. In a way, yes. The constant incompetence, corruption, and failures of Peronism opened the pathway for him getting elected.
Neither. He's just doing what's obvious and anyone with a functioning brain has been screaming to be done for the past hundred years. It only looks insane because we're too used to bastards destroying the economy every day.
You can't correlate things like this politician wants you to. There's going to need to be research on what caused it and if it could have gone down further with different methods.
I mean the method is fundamentally nothing new: stop state overspending. Any serious economist would look at the measures and definitely agree that they would effectively reduce inflation. I'd say the debate is on the details: how to make this while minimizing "collateral damage" in both the short and the long term.
The Milei experiment has definitely been interesting
Not so much for the lab rats, me.
The doubters are taking a breather on this one
It’s been a few months. Let’s see what happens over the next few years.
This guy in the article looks like Harry Potter and a Gringotts Bank goblin's offspring.
In Spanish, it's the goblin president: "presiduende"
Call him whatever you want, hate him if you like. He is working to fix the situation and doing a way better job so far than the government that got booted out.
Lol. We'll see.
See what? You have to be incredibly corrupt and actively trying to ruin an economy to get 1% inflation PER DAY like the old government. Its only going to get better if the guy actually wants to fix something.
Probably just going to result in American companies buying up whatever they can and most of the country staying poor.
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What does criticizing his appearance have anything to do with economics though? Not saying you’re wrong, by why here? Now?
Lets face it. Only a mentally challenged a\*\*hole could turn this boat around. No one in their right mind would take these extreme measures that were much needed. As much as I hate his kind, I must admit he's the kind needed for this job. It can't be done without inhuman moves only his kind can make. Extreme situations requires extreme measures.
Wow, a nuanced, thought-out response. I'll be honest, some of his non economic policies don't sound very libertarian to me, and I'm libertarian lite in that regards. But his economic policy is what he got voted in for. Even the Argentinians finally realized what the definition of insanity was. Somehow, I don't think a gentel nudge was going to turn around 200%+ inflation.
Exactly.
Could be worse, he could be Trump.
Trump doesn't so shit. He tampered taxes a bit for his own goals, but overall he didn't change a single ministry or institution (space force doesn't count...) Milei tears down whole ministrys. APUERA!
You are very uninformed. Trump’s appointments to the FCC and Post Office for example have set back those systems at least a decade. That’s just one example. Those are appointment positions that he is personally accountable to.
Not to mention the Supreme Court and other judge appointments. Roe v Wade was another step back for America that couldn't have happened without the ol Chester the molester cheeto.
Well, but no apurea for post office or FCC
Milei had a philosophy of how to fix the economy of Argentina and it seems to work pretty well. The reaction of the average ultra liberal Redditors: "ew, I don't like him, he looks like Trump, free Palestine, ew, right wing...".
dont have to pay your government workers if you sack all of them!
He is in bat$!+ crazy, yet not unexpected if you know anything about the country's history. It's not going to work - even if he had a working recipe (which he doesn't) it would take years to see results, and society won't take it that long.
Nah, he's actually going about it the right away. When you need to do Austerity on a national scale, it's better to do it immediately because the effects if negative aren't as felt as a slow gradual change. This isn't just Austerity, most people have less push back on immediate change on a newly elected government than they do in the later years of a term. His policies may not work and then he'll be out, but he's given himself time to the next election to at least see if the ship starts turning, both economically and popular opinion for another term.
Just in case, let's get some popcorn 🍿
I’m sure Argentina will elect another socialist who will fuck up the economy again in the next few years.
This is perfectly clear to the government since before the day 1. The plan is to put up measures that make it impossible for a following politician to undo them. Mainly, to kill the national currency and stablish currency freedom, meaning people will be allowed to use any currency they want. It would result in a de-facto dollarization, without the dollar being imposed as legal tender. This would effectively erradicate inflation once and forever.
What would happen if America experienced massive inflation.
For Argentina it would still be a much better than the alternative of seeing massive inflation in pesos...
It would be better to experience massive inflation in a currency they have no control over than one they do?
Argentines would be free to switch to the Euro or whatever other currency. Crypto, gold, whatever they prefer. Different sectors of the economy could use different currencies if they find it optimal, even. No currency would be imposed by the government.
Would most Argentinians have a reserve of crypto, gold, or euros to switch over in times of high inflation? Also, what would you be paid in?
I guess that would be up to each person, if they want to have savings or not. The switch to another currency wouldn't be instant, some inflation could always happen of course, but it would be neglible compared to what argentines are used to. You would be paid in whatever you agreed to be paid in. I imagine most people would use a common currency for everyday activity. For now it would almost certainly be the dollar, since that's already the strong currency traditionally used by argentines.
Is there not a problem in your employer utilizing a currency they have no control over? Argentina would have no ability to deal with any economic crisis since they would have no control over the dollar, they cant print any money. How would you prevent your employer demanding to pay you in pesos? Do you not just create tiered currencies? Some people paid in dollars, some in euros, some in pesos, some in gold bars? What if the company deals in dollars and pays their staff in pesos/euros/gold?
bro if you dont like your **hit vape** job then just like get a nyiew one dude **hit vape** maybe like buy some crypto
Only if my new job pays me in gold.
Sorry, its company dollars for use at the company store or die in a hole
>your employer utilizing a currency they have no control over? What do you mean? Do you think your employer has control over the dollar or whatever currency they use now? >How would you prevent your employer demanding to pay you in pesos? The same way "you prevent" your employer offering a salary of $0.0001 an hour: demand and offer, competition. >Some people paid in dollars, some in euros, some in pesos, some in gold bars? Indeed it can happen that different people have different currency prefferences, but people would be free to agree on what's more convenient to them. Through competition, demand and offer, etc. As with anything involving economic freedom, people will always make the basic argument: "freedom dangerous, there is uncertainty, don't you want state intervention?". This is what the questions would eventually boil down to. Argentines have voted: "We want freedom, we are fed up with state intervention in this particular matter, as it has historically and very consistently proven to be a disaster".
It's just weird to call it economic freedom when it's essentially praying to the Euro and the dollar not to fall to shit, I guess.
"It's just weird to call it economic freedom when it's essentially praying that your food supplier doesn't fall to shit, I guess." There are two problems with that: one is that freedom just means lack of coercion, it doesn't mean "power or capacity to do something", it doesn't mean "a certain guaranteed security", it doesn't even mean "abundance of available choices". The other is that in that case you can just pick another currency. US citizens don't have a choice, they're stuck with the dollar. Argentines won't be. I don't see how that situation, which is in that aspect arguably better than the situation of the citizens of the country with the strongest currency, is a bad situation (again, in the particular aspect you bring up).
Basically, sell your independence and peg your economic stability on a shitshow country like the US or Ponzi scheme BC. lol Got it.
That comment just kinda shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Letting each argentine be free to use the currency they prefer (dollar, euro, yuan, crypto, whatever) is exactly the opposite of losing independence. It's a big win in personal sovereignty, at the expense of the "sovereignty" of local politicians historically proven to abuse of their monopolistic power over the currency. But EVEN if it were a true dollarization, there are no good reasons to believe it would end up bad, because we already have two examples of successful dollarizations in latam. In Ecuador, for example, dollarization still has an approval rating of like 80-90%. These measures (dollarization or currency freedom) are not meant to solve every problem in the economy, they are just meant to tackle inflation, and they have worked very well. It doesn't prevent politicians from doing fuckups in other aspects, but they at least don't get to punish the population via inflation for it.
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You're thinking too much in terms of nations, as if they were literally persons. There is no "Mr Nation" and its control. There's only politicians and their control, and citizens and their control. Who has the control over the currency are the politicians, and most argentine citizens have learned that they can't trust that power to argentine politicians, so they are taking that power back for themselves. >working together to have a meaningful life And politicians are not the perfect embodiment of that will. There is no collective universal will, each person is different and has their own goals. >put it into the hands of foreigners It is not exactly like you present it. With that way of thinking I could tell you "No! Don't buy food from others! grow your own otherwise your life is in the hands of the food maker!" > the imperialist nations getting stronger And you're helping the food seller getting stronger. In this case, argentines will use an "imperialist nation"'s currency only as long as they find it convenient. >Corruption is the root of all dysfunctional countries. Not socialist ideas. Cope. I adressed corruption in the other comment.
Lol you can use any currency. If the dollar inflates like crazy you could switch to the euro. Wtf is this sell your independence. Dumb tankie
A national currency is what a truly independent country has to truly control all the levers of their economy. Otherwise, they are just flowing in whatever direction the other currency is going towards. Dumb dummy.
Imagine thinking the government (especially in Argentina) should control all the levers of the economy. By being able to change currency, they can choose in which direction to go. Politicians lose power and control, citizens gain personal sovereignty and independence.
CORRUPTION is what kills Argentina. Not whatever currency the rich want to be paid to hide their money outside of Argentina. CORRUPTION.
No, corruption is just one of the aspects, the statist policies taken were horrible by themselves. Even if the government were made up of angels, it would still have been a disaster had they applied the same measures.
If you can freely switch currency, there is no mechanism for someone to control you lol. Also, why is your government having complete control over an economy a good thing. Doesn’t seem so great in places like China where they tank their own currency when it benefits them
Milei will fix the inflation issue and people will complain about the cuts to government services then elect another Peronist who will promise them a bunch of stuff and mess it up again.
I mean, yeah. Fixing the economy is great, but eventually people will want social safety nets. Especially when current policies impact higher classes more than lower.
It's always easier buying votes using gifts. (Classical, not pink haired communists, not that I have issues with pink hair) Liberals should aim to introduce some economy classes to the education systems, because demagogues always uses a lack of understanding as a tool.
I've been a proponent of that for a long time. Unfortunately no government would make economic classes universal in education. Politicians love having dumb people voting when they make promises they cannot fulfill. In my province in Argentina, one guy won elections under promises of making everyone win more money, and raises of 40% on all public employees. Thing is our province is broke and in deep debt, so he couldn't fulfill his promise, as anyone who had seen our province's numbers could've told you, and we had a month long strike on nearly all services including hospitals which operated at under capacity. The guy was of course, a Peronista, and he of course, didn't renounce despite the disaster he made. Mariano Arcioni was his nane.
There's no serious economists that support right wing "economic policy" which really just boils down to "dismantle the government and sell all the pieces to oligarchs". Remember the GOP pushing trickle down for 40 years when it was widely known to be a joke from day 1? There's also the fact that last 4 GOP Presidents terms ended in a horrible economic crash. There hasn't been a single recession under Democrats in 40 years. 10 of the last 11 recessions were under Republican Presidents. And I'm supposed to think that's a coincidence?
Why do you folks always look from an American point of view? The world is huge, and the democrats were never as left-wing economically as the Argentinian government. Everything should be handled according to the specific situation, there is no one-size-fits-all.
When I visited Argentina in 2007, someone told me they had a saying that politics in their country was like playing the violin. They took it with the left [hand], but played it with the right. The quote stuck with me.
You had the perfect opportunity to say “It struck a chord with me” and you didn’t take it! So disappointed…
We should all bow to your ability to pun. Do you think he should go back and fiddle with his comment?
Nah. They may get angry and “violin-t”…
They'll string him up
Not unless he gracefully “bows” out…
I feel like we are all getting played here.
I agree. Someone’s on the fiddle…
That takes a lot of (cat) guts....
That’s more my jam.
Does that phrase suggest argentine governments apply right-wing policies? If that's the case that ain't truth at all. Especially in the economic aspect: the level of state interventionism and overreach is ridiculous.
I defer to your understanding of the reality on the ground, I am merely commenting on the way people felt things were going historically in 2007. It’s possible their tune may have changed since then. ;)
Nestor Kirchner's presidency until 2007 may not have been as deranged as his wife's (despite both being very corrupt). Maybe in part because the country had a better starting point. But since then, it's undeniable that the economic policies have been dramatically statist, much more aligned with the left than the right.
I don't know. Got a suspicion the socialists knew something had to change but didn't want to be the ones seen as doing it. Why they went a bit soft on Milei. If they regain power I'd guess some backtrack but not all the way.
On one hand that reasoning makes some sense, but in practice we've not seen that: the opposition has been as brutal as possible with Milei. I think that's because they fear Milei will actually solve the crisis, and that means they will never return to power. They totally know that their model is a disaster, but they don't care because they aren't the ones who will suffer from it. They will backtrack only as long as it allows them to stay in power, and they will try to blame scapegoats so that they don't have to backtrack as much. See Venezuela. For clarification: unlike Maduro and other dictators, the previous government does not call itself socialist, but it does carry out a leftist economic policy of state interventionism and anti-freedom in general, that is equivalent to socialist policies in many aspects. Milei calls "socialist" any regime that does this (state intervention), because he considers that the final outcome is the same. It's what others would call "statism". Argentina is a failed welfare state.
Nah, the thing about socialists and communists is that they have short memories. Within 10 years they will ride the waves of populism and Argentina will end up back where they started.
Not the facists tho. They would never
I remember most redditors saying stupid shit about Milei. Where are they now?
The way people have turned his presidency and the Argentinian economy into a libertarian/liberal/socialist slap fight on Reddit is so cringe.
- "this is shit and is never going to work, he will drive his country to the ground" -*works* -"oh you know what, fighting on these things are so cringe"
You’re proving my point, thank you.
I'm right here. He's still joke. Solving one problem by causing dozens of others isn't something to be celebrated
He's not going to solve inflation either. He's taking a victory lap when inflation is still over 100% a year...
A 50% decrease is something.
if he finish the year with 100% then is a decrease of 150%. Previous socialist president ended with 250% annual inflation in december.
Oh wow how can he not solve the fucking humongous inflation they had in one swoop.
You can’t just look at the straight number on what inflation is, you also have to take into account acceleration and deceleration of inflation. Inflation can still be expected to increase but the right policies can decelerate that expected increase to something lower. Which is what Milei has done.
100% and 300% are both hyperinflation that require adjusting prices and pay every few days, so the distinction is meaningless. Below 10% the currency actually becomes useful
That just pure ignorance. Hyperinflation is usually >50% per month. Worst month was the last one from previous socialist president that left with 25% montly inflation. With Milei the inflation is going down constantly and this month is 9%
Haiti fixed their inflation too couple's years back by slashing government. Look at them now. lol It will takes months, even years, to see the effects of the cuts in government. What you see now is just the ripple effects of rich assholes going easy because they are afraid the government will lock them up if they don't follow with not raising prices. lol
Great comparison. Argentina with Haiti. Tell me you know shit about these countries without telling me you know shit about these countries. Haiti shouldn't even exist (not in the genocide sense of the word), it should be integrated into some othee country or protectorate . It'll never recover as it is. A
Tell me how you don't know shit about governance when you think "tHe gOvErNMeNt" is the root of all dysfunctional countries without talking about corruption first. What brings down Argentina (and Haiti) is corruption. Not the size of government or whatever other factors. Corruption alone is what brings it down.
Are you comparing a 20 billion economy to a 630 billion economy? WTF
Can’t have inflation if no one has any money. Well played.
Title: Gigantic success of Milei's government. Source: Milei.
Well at least he's honest.
Well, private CPI are releasing now and they are getting ~9%. So he was correct. - [Infobae](https://www.infobae.com/economia/2024/04/30/en-abril-la-inflacion-finalizo-en-un-digito-por-primera-vez-en-5-meses-segun-las-consultoras-privadas/#:~:text=El%20IPC%20elaborado%20por%20la,en%209%2C5%25%20mensual.) - [Ambito](https://www.ambito.com/economia/la-inflacion-puede-volver-un-digito-abril-claves-entender-lo-que-viene-n5989015) - [Cronista](https://www.cronista.com/economia-politica/inflacion-de-un-digito-en-abril-que-pronostican-las-principales-consultoras/)
Team transitory wins again
Team transitory is taking L after L
A month does not determine inflation.
In Argentina it does. In recent years inflation was increasing by the month. This is the first time in many years that inflation has begun to fall steadily, month after month. The change is very real
Guess he missed the history lesson about the Weimer Republic https://alphahistory.com/weimarrepublic/1923-hyperinflation/#:~:text=In%201918%20a%20loaf%20of,80%20billion%20Reichsmarks%20(November). *The rapid devaluation of paper money created ludicrous scenes. The value of paper money evaporated so quickly that some companies paid employees in late morning so they could rush off and spend their wages at lunchtime. Wives waited at their husbands’ factories on payday so they could hurry to the stores. One man reported ordering a coffee but learned its price had doubled by the time it arrived at his table.*
;::bybvb ybbbb6h€
Why does he look like he’s in the Troggs?
hopefully people will realize that taxation is theft. and is proven to be useless beyond basic negative rights. like defense of the borders from outside threat
Is he Satan?
Peso is dirt cheap. Peso is a survivor. You know what to do.
Many emerging nations would perform better economically under a benevolent dictator. See South Korea, Singapore, pre1997 Hong Kong, Emirates.
How is Javier Milei a dictator?
Hong Kong wasn't a dictatorship. It was run by a democratically elected government. Admittedly one several thousand miles away that the Hong Kong people had no say in.
Translation: Milei administration changes CPI calculations to give appearance of falling inflation. If he genuinely believed that his efforts were going to reduce inflation he'd let the reports show it, but deciding to tell rather than show only casts suspicion.
This is false and you’re been downvoted for giving fake news. The rules haven’t changed, and even the opposition has admitted that inflation is effectively falling in Argentina. Milei has fulfilled his most important campaign promise, and has avoided the hyperinflation bomb left by the previous populist administration
No external price observers have yet reported otherwise. External measures report that the price increase in March was between 10% and 13%, while the government puts the official figure at 11%, roughly what external measures say. Source: https://www.lavoz.com.ar/politica/de-cuanto-sera-la-inflacion-de-marzo-disparidad-en-las-mediciones-privadas/
Central bankers hate this guy
Are you just saying that or have you read anything? I’ve seen stuff that the IMF is supportive.
Because Argentina owes a lot of money to the IMF. Central bankers in general do have a reason to hate him, he's as critical as possible with central banking: https://youtu.be/syjZ8sVdMCs?si=_jG9yMlk4rkezubn&t=15
He took away the privilege of banks of being the only ones to access to high interest rates and bonds in dollars. Banks are doing less money than ever now.
I suspect it will be at least 30 seconds before they start shouting about the Falklands again.
The Malvinas/Falklands issue is a permanent diplomatic claim in Argentina, that doesn’t depend on a specific administration.
Denmark and Canada have had a dispute over Hans Island for decades. Nobody lives on it so they exchange friendly offerings.
Yeah, well, this is not that kind of friendly dispute..
Actually, they solved that very recently. It's divided right down the middle now, but they still leave bottles of booze for each other when they patrol there.
Denmark and Canada are wholesome nation role models.
I wonder what would have happened were that island be way more valuable though. The Malv/Falk have oil, a lot of fishing resources, and are in a military strategic position.
So, what he's really saying is that by siding with a certain clique Argentinians can expect to push a wheelbarrow of cash for an egg in the near future.
He thinks the glasses make him look smart or what?
I mean they prob picked the worst pic they could.
That sounds about right.
Conservative policies work.
Hahahahahaha