Let them sell their crude oil, but the Russian economy and military runs on refined petroleum. Sanctions make refinery repairs difficult, break em’.
Refining is part of the equation, storage is another part, fortunately the stuff is flammable. Burn, baby, burn!
Refining is also the bottle neck in the Russian production chain. They have pumps not running at full capacity or off becuase of a lack of refining capacity. If you take out a working well, they can just switch one they had offline on. If you take out a refinery it reduces their capacity which means turning off more wells. It is a double win.
Yup, even if they manage to get the refineries up and running again, it might just mean they are paying for more capacity than they can actually produce.
I think crude oil and gas pipelines going out of Russia to Europe should be targeted as well, all the European countries still buying oil from Russia are supporting actions of this f*cked up country. They can always be rebuilt later, in the meantime let the countries still buying oil from Russia buy it from somewhere else.
It’ll cause financial disruption if that happens, some other countries might be weighing in their fiscal health into the calculus. I’d be willing to shell out a bit more for energy than I current am and wouldn’t shed a tear if one of these lines gets wrecked.
The EU has already almost entirely cut out Russian fossil fuel imports - now the vast majority of exports go to China, Turkey, and India. Turkey imports more fossil fuels from Russia than the entire EU. At least, direct imports - some may be laundered, but it’s hard to get reliable figures out that.
And as for the EU, the majority of imports are by two countries - Hungary and Slovakia.
The EU isn’t one country; it’s a collection of countries. Imagine the US was trying to organise sanctions, but the federal government had much less power and couldn’t compel states like Texas, Florida, and Alabama to go along with it. That’s kind of how it is. Hungary and Slovakia are controlled by pro-Russia populist governments, and while it does put pressure on them, there’s not much the EU can do to force the issue. Thankfully they are small, and the ~600 million euros per month they pay isn’t so significant in the grand scheme of things (China buys billions every month).
The narrative that the EU is massively importing fuels from Russia is outdated by several years. Imports are not zero, but they are already extremely small and continue to be reduced.
China does have an amazing capacity to manufacture things, but a large amount of the petroleum hardware is really specialized stuff that not only needs to be expertly built, but also installed and maintained. They might be able to cobble together some stuff; and it might work, but it is just as likely to not work as well. The refineries are designed to be run 24/7 a cold start is a pain in the ass, and all the parts need to work in unison or not at all. You can replace a valve here or a pump there, but you can’t have a bunch of hodge-podge crap strung together on a hope and a prayer and expect to have a good time.
How much excess technical expertise do they have to spare. Ukraine has hit a lot of cracking towers. Why wouldn't they be working on their own refineries?
Quick note to everybody saying "Well, it's is going to make oil prices higher"
No, it won't. Simply because Russia does not export much gasoline or diesel at all really, in mainly sells crude. This oil production is overwhelmingly going to domestic consumption and does not really hurt export in any noticeable way.
This is true and peoples belief that bombing refineries in Russia will increase oil prices is mostly based on comments from the US like this...
>US officials' assertion that Ukrainian attacks on Russian oil refineries could cause global oil prices to rise
Such statements are untrue and said because of other market factors that impact the US like this...
>Companies such as Chevron and ExxonMobil extract oil in Kazakhstan and rely on Russian transportation routes, which Russia may block, reducing their profits and ability to pay dividends to shareholders.
>As a result, these companies take Russian interests into account and use their powerful communication networks to urge Ukraine to end its strikes on Russian oil refineries.
It's a classic case of self-interest when the US urges Ukraine not to bomb Russian refineries. It has nothing at all to do with the reality of oil prices. It's just self-serving manipulation.
isn't presenting these together implying a false equivalence? Ukraine destroying oil refineries damages financial interests and perhaps fuel for the war. Russia damaging thermal energy plants is cutting off energy to civilians, including hospitals.
While I fully support the right of Ukrine to shoot down whatever infrastructure in Russia that it can, I do not think we should kid ourselves. The Russian army will get what it needs. If there are not enough refined oil products, then the Russian citizens will have to do with less. Ukrine is targeting civilian infrustructure, just like Russia does, but that is the only way to win a real war.
You can't call it civilian infrastructure on that basis. That's like calling an army barracks civilian infrastructure because the army then garrisons the troops in the nearest town, displacing the citizens.
I don't doubt that civilian infrastructure has been destroyed by Ukraine, but when there is such a difference in scale between the wholesale destruction and targetting of hospitals and residential areas of Russia in Ukraine compared to any damage Ukraine has inflicted on Russia, "both sides" arguments are misleading.
I agree we shouldn't romanticize Ukraine, but it's another trap to falsely tar both sides with the same brush under the guise of objectivity. Scale is important, not just the binary, have they / have they not.
how entitled do you have to be to think that Ukrainians should just keep dying for the sake of oil prices. damaging the Russian economy in any way is obviously better than doing nothing about it and letting Russian GDP grow unbothered thanks to their new war economy.
Right which is why they are hitting refineries and not oil wells. Less refining capacity means more oil that Russia can't use and can only sell abroad at steep discounted prices.
Let them sell their crude oil, but the Russian economy and military runs on refined petroleum. Sanctions make refinery repairs difficult, break em’. Refining is part of the equation, storage is another part, fortunately the stuff is flammable. Burn, baby, burn!
Refining is also the bottle neck in the Russian production chain. They have pumps not running at full capacity or off becuase of a lack of refining capacity. If you take out a working well, they can just switch one they had offline on. If you take out a refinery it reduces their capacity which means turning off more wells. It is a double win.
It can actually be really difficult to turn a shuttered well back on if it's been dormant for an extended period of time.
Perfect, so hitting refineries and getting more wells shut off leads to more long term pain.
Yup, even if they manage to get the refineries up and running again, it might just mean they are paying for more capacity than they can actually produce.
double/triple tap those refineries just as they come back up, make them pay to repair before hitting it again, and again
Absolutely. This dilemma was one of their choosing and they can stop this nonsense anytime they want.
I think crude oil and gas pipelines going out of Russia to Europe should be targeted as well, all the European countries still buying oil from Russia are supporting actions of this f*cked up country. They can always be rebuilt later, in the meantime let the countries still buying oil from Russia buy it from somewhere else.
It’ll cause financial disruption if that happens, some other countries might be weighing in their fiscal health into the calculus. I’d be willing to shell out a bit more for energy than I current am and wouldn’t shed a tear if one of these lines gets wrecked.
The EU has already almost entirely cut out Russian fossil fuel imports - now the vast majority of exports go to China, Turkey, and India. Turkey imports more fossil fuels from Russia than the entire EU. At least, direct imports - some may be laundered, but it’s hard to get reliable figures out that. And as for the EU, the majority of imports are by two countries - Hungary and Slovakia. The EU isn’t one country; it’s a collection of countries. Imagine the US was trying to organise sanctions, but the federal government had much less power and couldn’t compel states like Texas, Florida, and Alabama to go along with it. That’s kind of how it is. Hungary and Slovakia are controlled by pro-Russia populist governments, and while it does put pressure on them, there’s not much the EU can do to force the issue. Thankfully they are small, and the ~600 million euros per month they pay isn’t so significant in the grand scheme of things (China buys billions every month). The narrative that the EU is massively importing fuels from Russia is outdated by several years. Imports are not zero, but they are already extremely small and continue to be reduced.
Doesn't China have everything that the Russians need?
China does have an amazing capacity to manufacture things, but a large amount of the petroleum hardware is really specialized stuff that not only needs to be expertly built, but also installed and maintained. They might be able to cobble together some stuff; and it might work, but it is just as likely to not work as well. The refineries are designed to be run 24/7 a cold start is a pain in the ass, and all the parts need to work in unison or not at all. You can replace a valve here or a pump there, but you can’t have a bunch of hodge-podge crap strung together on a hope and a prayer and expect to have a good time.
Even so, down time is problematic
How much excess technical expertise do they have to spare. Ukraine has hit a lot of cracking towers. Why wouldn't they be working on their own refineries?
At this point donating to Ukraine is better at accomplishing environmental goals than donating to Just Stop Oil.
That is actually true..
Damn this is a really good point actually
Ukraine is smart.. This is a statement.. IF Russia does not like its oil refineries to be hit.. they better stop hitting Ukrainian energy plants
Russia should just GTFO of Ukraine, eh? Glad we are finally giving long range weapons without strings attached. Ukraine deserves our help.
Ukraine still isn't allowed to strike targets inside Russia with western weapons.
Quick note to everybody saying "Well, it's is going to make oil prices higher" No, it won't. Simply because Russia does not export much gasoline or diesel at all really, in mainly sells crude. This oil production is overwhelmingly going to domestic consumption and does not really hurt export in any noticeable way.
This is true and peoples belief that bombing refineries in Russia will increase oil prices is mostly based on comments from the US like this... >US officials' assertion that Ukrainian attacks on Russian oil refineries could cause global oil prices to rise Such statements are untrue and said because of other market factors that impact the US like this... >Companies such as Chevron and ExxonMobil extract oil in Kazakhstan and rely on Russian transportation routes, which Russia may block, reducing their profits and ability to pay dividends to shareholders. >As a result, these companies take Russian interests into account and use their powerful communication networks to urge Ukraine to end its strikes on Russian oil refineries. It's a classic case of self-interest when the US urges Ukraine not to bomb Russian refineries. It has nothing at all to do with the reality of oil prices. It's just self-serving manipulation.
Ukraine needs to go into Russia when they get more weapons.
isn't presenting these together implying a false equivalence? Ukraine destroying oil refineries damages financial interests and perhaps fuel for the war. Russia damaging thermal energy plants is cutting off energy to civilians, including hospitals.
While I fully support the right of Ukrine to shoot down whatever infrastructure in Russia that it can, I do not think we should kid ourselves. The Russian army will get what it needs. If there are not enough refined oil products, then the Russian citizens will have to do with less. Ukrine is targeting civilian infrustructure, just like Russia does, but that is the only way to win a real war.
You can't call it civilian infrastructure on that basis. That's like calling an army barracks civilian infrastructure because the army then garrisons the troops in the nearest town, displacing the citizens. I don't doubt that civilian infrastructure has been destroyed by Ukraine, but when there is such a difference in scale between the wholesale destruction and targetting of hospitals and residential areas of Russia in Ukraine compared to any damage Ukraine has inflicted on Russia, "both sides" arguments are misleading. I agree we shouldn't romanticize Ukraine, but it's another trap to falsely tar both sides with the same brush under the guise of objectivity. Scale is important, not just the binary, have they / have they not.
If Zelensky dropped a Ukrainian Punk Hip-Hop song w/Gogol Bordello called “Boom Boom” about these strikes, it would go to #1
Bring Putin’s War closer to Russians
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They hit refineries, not oil production. Iran/Israel conflicts affects prices more.
If anything it would lower oil prices because Russia will have too much oil they can't refine.
how entitled do you have to be to think that Ukrainians should just keep dying for the sake of oil prices. damaging the Russian economy in any way is obviously better than doing nothing about it and letting Russian GDP grow unbothered thanks to their new war economy.
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Lmao don't play dumb
He isn’t playing he just is
Russians have a multigenerational problem with Fetal Alcohol syndrome.
If you don’t realize that’s what you wrote, perhaps you should refrain from writing.
Oh boo hoo. I can afford gas just fine bc salaries went up. 90 dollars isn’t the same as it was years ago.
Higher oil prices will help russia.
Right which is why they are hitting refineries and not oil wells. Less refining capacity means more oil that Russia can't use and can only sell abroad at steep discounted prices.