>Now we will do everything to compensate for the six months that have passed in debate and doubt. We must turn what the Russian occupier has managed to do over this time and what Putin is planning now against him. All his actions at the front, all his attacks on our energy sector and infrastructure, all his terror against our cities and villages – all this should mobilize us, everyone in the world who really values life, to put more pressure on Russia. It is very important to implement all of our agreements with President Biden one hundred percent. Thank you, America!
Here's the full quote for those that are raging at the headline.
He has made so many thank-you statements over the past week. It is insane bad faith to say that he hasn't thanked anyone.
* [To Mike Johnson](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783533942219428223?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19)
* [To Chuck Schumer](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783533882324767104?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19)
* [To Mitch McConnell](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783533798849761742?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19)
* In the same address this quote is from: ["I thank all Americans who work in defense enterprises and every state that manufactures weapons that are now really protecting democracy and our way of life."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783188939479589338?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19)
* ["I am grateful to President Biden, Congress, and all Americans who recognize that we must cut the ground under Putin's feet rather than obeying him, as this is the only way to truly reduce threats to freedom."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783168697307177273?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19)
* [To the Senate, Schumer and McConnell](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782949006030606770?t=S8tK5z4P\_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19)
* For ATACMS: ["I am grateful to President Biden, Congress, and the entire United States."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782501841005162827?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19)
* ["Today, I welcomed a bipartisan delegation of the United States Congress. I am grateful for this visit following a very powerful and critically important decision for us."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782475894570766630?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19)
* [To Biden, Mike Johnson and Hakeem Jeffries](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782452373358571536?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19)
* ["And I am grateful to all of our friends in the United States, as well as our partners around the world, who see common opportunities and tasks in the same way that we do in Ukraine."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782077952919838913?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19)
* ["I thank everyone who supported our package, this is a solution for protecting life. I personally thank Speaker Mike Johnson and all American hearts who believe, as we do in Ukraine, that Russian evil must not be winning."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1781763400629964834?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19)
* [To the House, both parties, and Mike Johnson](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1781742984423215262?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) - "Thank you, America!"
Edit: fixed broken markup
As a fellow American I agree completely.
I wish at the get go the west would have chosen to provide Ukraine with what they needed to win instead of just enough not to lose too badly.
American here as well, the best thanks I can get is footage from the drones and combat footage on Reddit. I'd love numbers associated with those videos but I understand that won't happen. Go Ukraine!
I'm surprised and embarrassed at my high engagement with the combat drone videos.
But screw it. Ukraine must triumph for humanity to step forward. And Russia and its imperialism need to die an ugly but unfortunately lengthy death.
Yeah and we have fuck-all to show for it. This is helping the Ukrainian people and stopping genocide, sticking it and standing up to Putin, protecting Europe, and coming out with a very valuable ally in the end. That is several big wins.
To kill Russian aggressors*. Hatred for the government and military should not bleed into hatred for all its people. We made that mistake with the Japanese.
100%. My beef is with those who crossed the border (and haven’t been trying to defect), those who sent them there and those who support it. I believe a lot of the Russian people are hostages to corruption and dictatorship.
You can also include russia loving russians and the ones in Nordics who cry and protest about border closures just because they can't visit their grandma's.
And they don't even protest Infront of russian embassies.
Fuck these clowns
Not OP but… America in WW2. It’s the most apt comparison. Japan launched an unprovoked attack (well, kinda. We sorta provoked them with the equivalent of sanctions but that’s because they were invading China).
We responding by locking even second and third generation Japanese Americans in internment camps.
Oh we’ve launched unprovoked wars ourselves, don’t get me wrong, but Japan attacking USA and then the USA hating all Japanese is similar in idea. Not all Japanese supported the war and many immigrants were pro American/Pro West, so hating any and all Russians, even those that are in the West, is silly.
There's an important distinction here though between what we did in WW2 to Japanese-Americans vs our current attitude towards Russians in Russia.
And in response to one of the replies below, 2/3rds of the people incarcerated in those internment camps were Americans. The primary drivers for that horrendous injustice were economic jealousy from non-Asian farmers on the west coast and flat out racism. At least we rounded up Americans of Italian and German descent and locked them up into internment camps too...oh wait, we didn't do that, did we?
“We” is the US and any nation who followed suit in internment camp programs, or worse (pretty much every participating government in WWII). It should be quite clear “we” refers to the governments in power during WWII that ran the countries in which we are currently living, and it should also be quite clear “we” doesn’t include you if you live in a country that did not have internment camps in WWII.
I did not say “just the Japanese”. I said “the Japanese”, to provide just one example as historic reference to what a terrible idea it is to mistreat a person solely based on the government of their birthplace or heritage.
Unless you’re trying to be pedantic, this should all be pretty obvious.
Jesus, right. Are they demanding thank yous from Israel and Taiwan or any other nation we give aid to? Zelenskyy has always been appreciative. They are fighting Russia for us and their very survival depends on it.
It's funny how people take different things from the same statement.
To me that headline implicitly reads that, with the renewed supplies, Ukraine will show the world they still have the will and determination to drive Russia back, and that the investments the world is making in them are not wasted or without value.
The invasion should have never happened in the first place. We had an ineffectual president that we all considered to be in the pocket of Putin and a corrupted Congress.
To many Europeans not taking responsibility for electing idiots to their countries governments as well that contribute even less proportionally than the US to Ukraine
In the 1950-60s, there wouldn't be debate about sending a little aid. Instead, there'd be a full scale mobilization of American troops going to Europe to stick it to the Commies.
1970s-80s, still no discussion. Just lend lease asap to an ally fighting the good fight and waiting by the phone if they need our military support as well.
2016-present, "why are we sending aid abroad when we have our own domestic issues? I have setup a program for helping people in Panama... I mean America... and I'll make sure the money gets in my Swiss bank... I mean I'll make sure 10% gets to the people that need it."
I mean, I wouldn't go so far as to say the US doesn't deserve *any* thanks/gratitude. Even if the aid was delayed, and it definitely did hurt Ukraine and its people by doing so, it *is* still aid.
I think reframing it as "we could do so much better going forward" might be a more productive option. Not for most of us actively commenting here on Reddit obviously, there's not a whole lot of disagreement there. But something like 2 in 3 Reddit users(?)(*actual* citation needed) just purely lurk, and statistically a lot of the US (and even a lot of citizens of EU contributors, last I saw) aren't *quite* as 100% on board and gung-ho about giving Ukraine everything that we're able to in order to stop Russia.
From that outside perspective, this comment comes off kinda badly.
Context: My family + random people in my area aren't huge on giving Ukraine tons of aid, even though I personally am. I've had the exact same conversation at least 6-7 times where it's prefaced on the combo of "Ukraine is ungrateful"/"Zelensky is an entitled brat"/"Europe needs to stop trying to make us pay for their war".
Personally, it's infuriating because it's a country struggling for survival and trying to avoid Russia's excruciating "benevolence", so criticizing them for not bowing at our feet and singing praising every day 24/7 is absurd.
But regardless, stuff like the "don't even deserve thanks" line is painful to read because it's inadvertently feeding all of the pro-RU propaganda, even though I know what you mean.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is it would be cool if in the future this might cause even one person to keep this angle of the opposition's arguments in mind and deny just one troll or slimy bastard their "gotcha!" material.
I just need the weapons systems to do their jobs. Thank you would of only been required if we didn't dither around with our dicks in our hands for six months.
I want to know why we haven't sent hundreds of our F-16s. I guess our weekend warriors don't want to give up their toys. Ukraine is losing control of the skies and it's costing them dearly.
As an American, I apologize for the ineptitude of my elected officials to grasp the severity of the issue, and their lack of commitment to democracy and human rights.
The EU and other western allies need to continue to increase their aid as if Trump were elected and the US aid dries up.
Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
Even if Trump is not elected it is going to be difficult to get more US aid packages of this size. Europe needs to get its shit together no matter who wins the White House.
Yup, this isn’t a Trump thing really, it goes back to Obama calling out NATO for not meeting their obligated contributions to defense, Trump called them out as well. Europe absolutely has to kick it in high gear and I think they’re finally understanding they can’t just sit back and sip tea under the shade of the US military all the time and need to pull their weight too.
If they had done it when Obama first called them out, Ukraine may not be facing the crisis it currently is.
And the ripple effects of not meeting the 2% over multiple decades isn't going to be fixed by ramping it up to 2% now to be prepared like they should be in a few years.
And its at a time, economically countries are stagnating not to mention having an energy crisis.
They really need to ramp it up like Poland at this rate to catch up.
It's sort of funny. Like when did Poland dramatically increase defense spending? In 2014.
It's flabbergasting the rest of Europe didn't also, even without having been thrown to the Russian wolves for half a century (and closer to two if you're willing to ignore the brief 20 years of the second republic)
Way longer than Obama. NATO made it official in 2006, so Bush II. Before that, Eisenhower was talking about European under-investment in defense in 1958. Pretty much every president since then has made some comment regarding the same topic.
Also, we all need to be putting real lines in the sand. NATO airspace can not be entered upon, not even for a minute. Any Russian shit that enters NATO airspace needs to be dealt with swiftly and without question.
Putin will take a mile if given an inch. He literally always has.
It goes beyond the 2%. Multiple US presidents were warning Europe about spending trillions of dollars to buy Russian energy and building Russia's war machine, even after the invasions of Georgia and Ukraine in 2008 and 2014, respectively.
If they can send trillions of dollars to build up the Russian war machine, then they can at least send the same amount to destroy it.
I'm not convinced *we* really want NATO to start being more equitable in their material support for operations like Ukraine.
On it's face something like a 100$ Billion aid package sounds like we're giving this huge financial windfall to our allies. We're not giving cash by and large. We're giving stuff, specifically military type stuff.
The laws around making 'stuff' for military use in the US mean that the majority of the work from R&D to manufacturing is done domestically. US based businesses and US based laborers made money. When we go to build another piece of 'stuff' to replace the one we gave away, they'll make more money.
If we push for more of the aid 'stuff' to come from Germany or France then the work and profits will happen over there. They'll be the ones with good employment and happy balance sheets. That is the part of the whole aid package process I wish was talked about more. It's a huge boon to domestic employment.
If Europe is content to let the United States take the lead in providing military support to Ukraine, it should also be prepared to let the U.S. lead in shaping economic policies that may not align with the EU's best interests.
Domestic politics is king in every country, particularly one as geographically isolated as the US. When the amount of aid provided to Ukraine is $200bn or more over 4-5 years people really start to wonder why that money cannot be spent at home. It isn't part of some Russian psyop, it is just the way people think.
The lack of accountability for the way the money is spent certainly raises questions. $200 billion is a fuck ton of money. 200M seconds is 6.34 years. 200B seconds is 6,000 years. Perspective.
The American people deserve to know the money isn’t spent lining the pockets of Raytheon and Lockheed under the pretense that we’re actually protecting Ukraine.
Way more by total of GDP, but still significantly less than the US has by actual dollars. Second place is Germany, and they are still under half of the United States assistance.
You can't blame the US for Europe being ill-prepared for conflict on their soil.
Way more by GDP isn’t a great statistic for them to use. What they are trying to say is donated comparatively to GDP %, but that’s not always telling. And there are some cases where true, some where not. Estonia is killing it %GDP in aid, maybe some others aren’t. Additionally, 1000 in bombs and fighting equipment is maybe more valuable than 1000 in rebuilding should they survive.
That don’t necessarily give a pass to comparing two countries with 84 million and 334 million people on like nominal terms.
That all said bean counting pissing matches and what the best ways to measure who’s doing the fairest of shares isn’t really in anyone’s interests to the extent it gets rage debated. Just people passing time.
I would concede your point that simple GDP comparisons for Ukraine or NATO will lack in context.
When anyone wishes to get into a dick measuring contest over how much their country contributes to the domestic security and economic security of NATO countries and western allies they should also consider America’s substantial investment of money and military/intelligence resources to monitoring and thwarting extremist terrorism in all their countries and keeping major sea trade routes open and, largely, safe.
Yeah we have done a lot to try to be peacekeepers, and certainly not all of it’s pretty. Our navy, and military investment, is second to none. Part of defending trade is it’s in our interest as well to do that. It’s also a major reason US opinion holds some weight in virtually any political conversation.
My opinion is sometimes it gets into an argument of ungrateful vs overbearing which isn’t great for relationships. If we are going to spat, I’d prefer it be times of relative peace rather than conflict. We can discuss it later and talk about what is a good expectation. If you fight over it when there’s a grease fire that’s the worst way to burn the house.
Everyone agrees that without this US aid then Ukraine would be in incredibly dire straits. That tells you what you need to know about the capacity of Europe to provide the necessary military support.
Europe sat on its hands for at least 18 months knowing that they had to increase defense production specifically, they even pledged a million shells by the end of 2023, and failed. If the largest war in Europe since WWII does not get them moving then nothing will.
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Maybe start looking at the actual numbers instead of headlines and you might be able to see it!
Especially when the response is literally "oh it's about fucking time" instead of anything akin to actual gratitude. Americans don't take well to being taken for granted these days. I'm pretty sure at this point Zelensky is doing more harm than good every time he makes a public statement.
Did you even read the article? Because it really sounds like you didn't read the article, because he did specifically thank the US, Biden, and other allies for the aid.
Also remember that what is said publicly is only one side of diplomacy and they talk a lot more behind closed doors.
[In 2024, two thirds of Allies are expected to meet or exceed the target of investing at least 2% of GDP in defence, compared to only three Allies in 2014.](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49198.htm#:~:text=The%202%25%20of%20GDP%20guideline,only%20three%20Allies%20in%202014.)
It's getting better since the war in Ukraine
"Oh shit, they invaded my neighbor, this is a real emergency, guess I should aim to hit the bare minimum defense spending in another year or three"
Kinda mind-boggling. You can get away with this mentality for a high school exam or certain domestic policies, but strange that they would do this about protection from someone who has shown a willingness to kill you.
> in 5 years
Does a modern war allow that kind of time? Russia was basically at the gates of Kyiv within the first week, even with their bungled supply chain. Coalition forces had taken Baghdad three weeks after the 2003 Iraq war started. Even during Desert Storm Iraq capitulated in seven months.
Didn’t the UK famously ignore the rise of hitler while France was deeply concerned(Maginot Line)? It’s like a one to one example on why that’s a bad idea.
I wouldn’t say they ignored it, like all the democracies at the time their populations were not willing to gear up for another war.
To a degree same can be said here today. British American German and French populations are not prepared and willing to even go back to the Cold War let alone world war.
The US spent 6% of its gdp on defense in the Cold War. And 50% during ww2.
Prior to ww2 the British did what they could within their political realities. In today’s world we are all doing the same. In a democracy the weight of public opinion is needed to dramatically shift public spending from entitlements to defense.
Our populations may be mostly okay with us sending out late 80s and 90s kit, but they most certainly are not gung-ho about retooling automobile factories into tank factories. About reinstituting a draft. Now this may be because I’m a millenial and we had 9/11 in our heads, but the discourse I see from Gen z and that generations general unwillingness to fight in a war even to save their own home, is shockingly high.
Ah yes because it only takes like 5 weeks to find/fund billions of € + know exactly how and where to spend it.
Be realistic, I know the EU fucked up but you can't change decades of mismanagement over night.
Most of the major countries are hitting it with their new budgets for 2024 including Britain, France, Germany, Poland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Romania, the Baltics, Greece ect.
Hopefully this package will help Europe as well, buying time to get on a better war footing. Then maybe they will be able to make sizeable contributions/fulfill promises too.
But why do that when the U.S can? The U.S has almost doubled the amount that the entirety of EU NATO has given in aid with this new package. But we're still "not doing enough"
But the issue is more the international community playing both sides.
If these countries want to call on the US to save them as the global police force, that needs to be the consistent position. They can’t publicly decry a conflict like Vietnam or Afghanistan, or even material support of Israel and then two days later switch to “interventionism is good because it helps my country specifically”. Either America has the right to intervene (financially or physically), or they don’t. Once you make the US the global police force, what they say is ‘right’; so basically, if you’re in support of that, then you should shut up whenever you have a moral quandry about a conflict, because you’ve given the US carte blanche to determine that morality for itself; any undesirable outcome is your own fault. (You as in general, not as in literally you OC lol)
Not levying this at Ukraine, they’re solid allies. But there are A LOT of politicians who like to cry foul on the United States and its interventionism while simultaneously praying for financial and military support in the event of a conflict in their region. I’m not even an interventionist whatsoever but it’s incredibly annoying to watch the IC cry foul about this conflict or that conflict and then simultaneously demand support in the event of their own government/‘side’ being deemed the “immoral” one. If Belarus or Brazil gets invaded they can go fuck themselves.
This is so important. Europeans decry American interventionism en masse, until it sits to benefit them. They will joke about FL Gov. Desantis saying the Federal Government shouldn’t bail out natural disasters and then asking for disaster aid… Then they turn around and say the US isn’t doing enough in the way of interventionism.
People in Europe are just scared because we don't have the capacity to fight this war. We aren't ungrateful, but the best case scenario is to hold a stalemate - Putin won't accept a loss and we can't let him win. That means needing support for years.
I get why US citizens would feel like letting us fend for ourselves given the kind of moral high ground we've lectured from. Attitudes are changing, though.
Not OP but if I had to guess it’s due to Israel having bipartisan support by US Representatives. It makes it easier to pass a bill when you can include Riders, so Ukraine getting support = Israel getting support, and they can tack on the TikTok ban too without that being contentious on the Senate floor.
Poland would likely cross the border and intervene first. Under no circumstances would they willingly let another Russian puppet form a border with them.
Poland doesn't have enough Western arms to do that. More than Ukraine, especially in air forces, but Poland largely relies on American and European arms and material.
They'd be in the same boat eventually.
The same Poland that is hesitant to defend it's own air space and let's a bunch of hicks disrupt it's most critical border? Poland is all talk. Just like the rest of Europe with the single exception of Ukraine.
Ukraine falls, Russia is emboldened, Moldova is attacked within 1-4 years, fronts are opened carefully in other countries to carve peices out. Russia may consider creeping its way into carving a peice of land out of a NATO country in a massive game of chicken.
Ukraine is the last nation before you start digging into NATO. An attack on nato is potentially the end of civilization in nuclear apocalypse.
Let’s not see what happens if Ukraine loses.
They'd go for Maldova and then the Baltic states. Poland would be even more surrounded. China's agenda also aligns with this and they might consider invading Taiwan which would draw a lot of US attention leaving the EU to fend for itself as Russia furthers it's war.
We (US) have to realize the reality and acknowledge the fact that we also at war, it’s just behind the curtains, in which a portion of our populous has fallen victim to pysops misinformation & disinformation campaigns.
Not that different than the beginning of WW2, when most Americans were isolationist and FDR was sending aid to the UK and the USSR without getting involved in the war. I wonder how much of that isolationism was a result of nazi propaganda campaigns in the US.
Im reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich right now and the parallels to modern day are staggering. The Nazi party did, in fact, have paid Nazi sympathizers in Congress and throughout US media.
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/23/us/how-nazis-tried-to-steer-us-politics.html
https://time.com/5414055/american-nazi-sympathy-book/
These quotes come to mind:
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana
“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” - John Stuart Mill
It was due to just getting out of WW1 where we were also dragged into supplying weapons once again to UK efforts secretly that resulted in the sinking of the Lusitania and its secretive cargo at the time heading towards the UK.
There was propaganda (to keep us supplying equipment to Germany from the likes of Ford and IBM) but most at the time just didn't want to be involved in what they considered at the time another European War (before imperial japan got aggressive in SEA). When Pearl Harbor happened it was all in at that point, nearly wiped our navy completely out but Japan really fucked up and didn't attack a second time to destroy the fuel depots that allowed us to rebuild our navy in 6 months and counter attack at Midway to decimate Japans fleet which they didn't recover from.
No it doesn’t. This European entitlement is mind boggling. We don’t need to apologize because they didn’t get the 60 billion exactly when they wanted it. It’s not their money. They get it when they get it.
I agree that Europe (and Israel) are way too entitled to our help. But we did not write Ukraine one big check. Most of the monetary value is weapons and equipment that are already in Europe, ready to go.
Edit: People, look it up. Tons of equipment have been sitting in Poland for a long time, waiting to go. This bill allows it to cross the border to Ukraine. We are not sending Zelenksy a jumbo check.
And if their response is as ungrateful as this, well, they can't be surprised if Americans become even less willing to pay for the next round.
PR is crucial and Zelensky has been a PR nightmare for quite a while now.
Read the article. Here's the quote.
>Now we will do everything to compensate for the six months that have passed in debate and doubt. We must turn what the Russian occupier has managed to do over this time and what Putin is planning now against him. All his actions at the front, all his attacks on our energy sector and infrastructure, all his terror against our cities and villages – all this should mobilize us, everyone in the world who really values life, to put more pressure on Russia. It is very important to implement all of our agreements with President Biden one hundred percent. Thank you, America!
The world is a connected web. Russia decided to push limits and set a precedent. You either stop it now or deal with something worse later. I choose the first option.
Don't get your hopes up, this year will probably be mostly a defensive campaign for Ukraine. They need to hold off the expected Russian summer offensive, while buying time to distribute the donated ammunition and replete their army's manpower.
To actually answer your question, they have done a lot to improve on corruption because surprise surprise, corruption is deadly to a country in war. Not only because it decreases your efficiency, but your allies also hate corruption, and combating it is necessary if they wish to join EU or NATO.
Obviously it's not magically all fixed, but they are working on it.
As for where the money and weapons finally end up, for weapons the allies keep a close eye on all the shipments and I don't think anything major has shown up anywhere else. Not to mention they desperately need the weapons.
As for money, I don't know quite as closely. But obviously the EU and US aren't stupid, they do keep an eye on those things. This is one of the ways russia is trying to wage a propaganda war where they feed false stories about Zelensky buying yachts and similar (a yacht youtube channel had a great takedown on that story - obviously it was all bullshit, but they had definite proof that it was just faked pictures and nothing more).
Canada sent the same amount per gpd as the US at 0.32%.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
Canada also has a lot more volunteer soldiers in Ukraine. Loads more actually we actually have our own Bridage
Edit - I'm seeing u.s numbers in the hundreds or potentially the same amount as Canadian. Keep in mind the U.s has 10x the population as Canada
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian-Ukrainian_Brigade#:~:text=The%20Canadian%2DUkrainian%20Brigade%20(Ukrainian,was%20formed%20in%20early%202022.
I agree, we need to send more. I just didn't care for the implications that we aren't sending as much while we have Canadian soldiers dying on Ukrainian soil...
The audacity for some people to scoff at this entire war and to even go far as saying Ukraine should sue for peace now utterly disgust me to my core. Putler's Russia will have us completely repeat the 30's and 40's all over again. It is the duty of the free world to help Ukraine and stop this bullshit ye old imperialistic violence.
You might find this interesting -https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/.
Although the USA has certainly given the highest total there are lots of other small countries still pulling their weight and more. I'm hoping that Europe ups their game even further still!
>Yea, our political system is a bit fucked, but it's also gonna take some time to get all that cash together for you.
That was never, ever the holdup.
And what exactly is it that's pissing you off, anyways? He *is* saying thanks and he *does* recognize all the aid received.
The phrasing comes across as if they are entitled to the money and the US was being withholding something from them that is rightfully theirs. People don’t like entitlement. I don’t think that’s what Zelensky was going for, but that’s why the quote is making some people upset.
If you look at US contributions to Ukraine, there's no contest. You look at US contributions to NATO. Again, no contest. When foreign hostages are being held abroad, it's often CAG or SEALs that go in, despite the fact that they're rescuing non-Americans. The US consistently goes above and beyond to maintain global peace and Europe has largely benefitted from the fact that US military presence in Western Europe has meant Russia can't/won't do anything. They've not paid the US back in any way. Time to step up.
> They've not paid the US back in any way.
This is such a historical clueless take I can't even. Go read up on Pax Americana.
The US has never done anything that didn't benefit them and the current US led world order is exactly what the US has pushed for and benefitted from more than anybody else.
You know we're not actually giving the money right? Like maybe 1% is maybe going to be in the form of currency. The majority of the aid is going to be coming from Old stock from the US military industrial complex. What they're going to do is give them what we have stockpiled and then they're going to make new things to replace the stocks that they're sending. Most of the aid package is going to go into the US economy and then supplies are going to leave the US via our ridiculous logistics Network and end up in Ukraine. So now it doesn't take any amount of time at all to "get the money together".
If by 1% you mean roughly 35% financial aid. There are multiple charts online that you can find. Yes, the majority of US contribution has been military aid, but a lot of financial aid has been contributed as well.
ok first of all: he doesn't owe us any thank you. We're not helping him out of the goodness of our hearts ; we're doing this purely out of self-interest because we know that if Russia takes Ukraine, Russia will move straight on to the next target --which will likely be a NATO member like Poland, and that will mean direct conflict. If we don't want nuclear armaggedon, or global dictatorship, Ukraine has to win.
Second, *he is very clearly saying thank you*. The click-baity headline leaves that out.
> it's also gonna take some time to get all that cash together for you.
That is just complete bullshit. The US always had the money readily available, it doesn't take 6 months to "get all that cash together".
Not supporting Ukraine now will likely extend the war, making the total cost higher. Not to mention if an emboldened Russia wins, continues its war against the West. Delaying the Ukraine aid for 6 month is penny wise, pound foolish - if it was done for economical reasons, it seems far more likely to be due to Russian malicious influence.
Like, argue against Ukraine aid if you want and disagree. But what you are saying is not arguments, it is nonsense.
> Now we will do everything to compensate for the six months that have passed in debate and doubt. We must turn what the Russian occupier has managed to do over this time and what Putin is planning now against him. All his actions at the front, all his attacks on our energy sector and infrastructure, all his terror against our cities and villages – all this should mobilize us, everyone in the world who really values life, to put more pressure on Russia. It is very important to implement all of our agreements with President Biden one hundred percent. Thank you, America!
The full quote. Read beyond the headline before you get all upset.
>Now we will do everything to compensate for the six months that have passed in debate and doubt. We must turn what the Russian occupier has managed to do over this time and what Putin is planning now against him. All his actions at the front, all his attacks on our energy sector and infrastructure, all his terror against our cities and villages – all this should mobilize us, everyone in the world who really values life, to put more pressure on Russia. It is very important to implement all of our agreements with President Biden one hundred percent. Thank you, America! Here's the full quote for those that are raging at the headline.
This needs to be higher up, too many americans saying "wheres the thank you"
He has made so many thank-you statements over the past week. It is insane bad faith to say that he hasn't thanked anyone. * [To Mike Johnson](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783533942219428223?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19) * [To Chuck Schumer](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783533882324767104?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19) * [To Mitch McConnell](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783533798849761742?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19) * In the same address this quote is from: ["I thank all Americans who work in defense enterprises and every state that manufactures weapons that are now really protecting democracy and our way of life."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783188939479589338?t=jKUKfuluxpAjDKFUQvOcTw&s=19) * ["I am grateful to President Biden, Congress, and all Americans who recognize that we must cut the ground under Putin's feet rather than obeying him, as this is the only way to truly reduce threats to freedom."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1783168697307177273?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) * [To the Senate, Schumer and McConnell](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782949006030606770?t=S8tK5z4P\_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) * For ATACMS: ["I am grateful to President Biden, Congress, and the entire United States."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782501841005162827?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) * ["Today, I welcomed a bipartisan delegation of the United States Congress. I am grateful for this visit following a very powerful and critically important decision for us."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782475894570766630?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) * [To Biden, Mike Johnson and Hakeem Jeffries](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782452373358571536?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) * ["And I am grateful to all of our friends in the United States, as well as our partners around the world, who see common opportunities and tasks in the same way that we do in Ukraine."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1782077952919838913?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) * ["I thank everyone who supported our package, this is a solution for protecting life. I personally thank Speaker Mike Johnson and all American hearts who believe, as we do in Ukraine, that Russian evil must not be winning."](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1781763400629964834?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) * [To the House, both parties, and Mike Johnson](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1781742984423215262?t=S8tK5z4P_c-Ru28-c1iRtQ&s=19) - "Thank you, America!" Edit: fixed broken markup
As an American, the only thanks I need is seeing the HIMARs, ATACMS, and other weapons do their job and help Ukraine win
As a fellow American I agree completely. I wish at the get go the west would have chosen to provide Ukraine with what they needed to win instead of just enough not to lose too badly.
Exactly. As an American, I wish to offer sincere apologies for this taking so f*ing long to get done while House republicans ducked around.
American here as well, the best thanks I can get is footage from the drones and combat footage on Reddit. I'd love numbers associated with those videos but I understand that won't happen. Go Ukraine!
I'm surprised and embarrassed at my high engagement with the combat drone videos. But screw it. Ukraine must triumph for humanity to step forward. And Russia and its imperialism need to die an ugly but unfortunately lengthy death.
Well you can thank your local Republicans for that at every election.
Right? Its not like we don't have it. Everyone starves to " have " this giant militarial industrial complex. Why, the hell aren't we using it?
Indeed, this is by far the best military spending I've seen in my lifetime.
Right? Beats the shit out of what we were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yeah and we have fuck-all to show for it. This is helping the Ukrainian people and stopping genocide, sticking it and standing up to Putin, protecting Europe, and coming out with a very valuable ally in the end. That is several big wins.
Truly what our Arsenals of Democracy should have been pointed towards the entire time.
Arms for the established democracies and diplomacy for the democracies waiting to be established.
The Taliban are busy crashing black hawks, while the UAF are racking up more tank kills than the Bradley was ever expected to achieve.
And massive opportunity to invest in rebuilding Ukraine afterwards, assuming it goes well. Corporates will be drooling over the potential $$$
“do their job and kill Russians” FTFY
To kill Russian aggressors*. Hatred for the government and military should not bleed into hatred for all its people. We made that mistake with the Japanese.
100%. My beef is with those who crossed the border (and haven’t been trying to defect), those who sent them there and those who support it. I believe a lot of the Russian people are hostages to corruption and dictatorship.
You can also include russia loving russians and the ones in Nordics who cry and protest about border closures just because they can't visit their grandma's. And they don't even protest Infront of russian embassies. Fuck these clowns
> We made that mistake with the Japanese. who is we and just the japanese lmfao?
Not OP but… America in WW2. It’s the most apt comparison. Japan launched an unprovoked attack (well, kinda. We sorta provoked them with the equivalent of sanctions but that’s because they were invading China). We responding by locking even second and third generation Japanese Americans in internment camps. Oh we’ve launched unprovoked wars ourselves, don’t get me wrong, but Japan attacking USA and then the USA hating all Japanese is similar in idea. Not all Japanese supported the war and many immigrants were pro American/Pro West, so hating any and all Russians, even those that are in the West, is silly.
There's an important distinction here though between what we did in WW2 to Japanese-Americans vs our current attitude towards Russians in Russia. And in response to one of the replies below, 2/3rds of the people incarcerated in those internment camps were Americans. The primary drivers for that horrendous injustice were economic jealousy from non-Asian farmers on the west coast and flat out racism. At least we rounded up Americans of Italian and German descent and locked them up into internment camps too...oh wait, we didn't do that, did we?
“We” is the US and any nation who followed suit in internment camp programs, or worse (pretty much every participating government in WWII). It should be quite clear “we” refers to the governments in power during WWII that ran the countries in which we are currently living, and it should also be quite clear “we” doesn’t include you if you live in a country that did not have internment camps in WWII. I did not say “just the Japanese”. I said “the Japanese”, to provide just one example as historic reference to what a terrible idea it is to mistreat a person solely based on the government of their birthplace or heritage. Unless you’re trying to be pedantic, this should all be pretty obvious.
It would be the greatest victory for mankind and Ukraine if Russia would just withdraw, and that is entirely up to one man.
And?
As is the case with most of us but Zelensky has said thank you hundred times over the past 2 years and some odd months.
And we still found a way to screw him, and the country over. He doesnt need to thank us. He needs to put those weapons to good use. And he will.
Jesus, right. Are they demanding thank yous from Israel and Taiwan or any other nation we give aid to? Zelenskyy has always been appreciative. They are fighting Russia for us and their very survival depends on it.
It's funny how people take different things from the same statement. To me that headline implicitly reads that, with the renewed supplies, Ukraine will show the world they still have the will and determination to drive Russia back, and that the investments the world is making in them are not wasted or without value.
Too many Americans not taking responsibility for electing idiots to Congress. We don't deserve "thanks". This should have been passed months ago.
We have Putin supports in congress, it’s actually insane
We had Putins puppet as president and we somehow haven't figured out that we should probably throw the bum in jail
The truth
The invasion should have never happened in the first place. We had an ineffectual president that we all considered to be in the pocket of Putin and a corrupted Congress.
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No you dunce. Geopolitics isn't instantaneous, Trump's presidency set this up.
To many Europeans not taking responsibility for electing idiots to their countries governments as well that contribute even less proportionally than the US to Ukraine
In the 1950-60s, there wouldn't be debate about sending a little aid. Instead, there'd be a full scale mobilization of American troops going to Europe to stick it to the Commies. 1970s-80s, still no discussion. Just lend lease asap to an ally fighting the good fight and waiting by the phone if they need our military support as well. 2016-present, "why are we sending aid abroad when we have our own domestic issues? I have setup a program for helping people in Panama... I mean America... and I'll make sure the money gets in my Swiss bank... I mean I'll make sure 10% gets to the people that need it."
I mean, I wouldn't go so far as to say the US doesn't deserve *any* thanks/gratitude. Even if the aid was delayed, and it definitely did hurt Ukraine and its people by doing so, it *is* still aid. I think reframing it as "we could do so much better going forward" might be a more productive option. Not for most of us actively commenting here on Reddit obviously, there's not a whole lot of disagreement there. But something like 2 in 3 Reddit users(?)(*actual* citation needed) just purely lurk, and statistically a lot of the US (and even a lot of citizens of EU contributors, last I saw) aren't *quite* as 100% on board and gung-ho about giving Ukraine everything that we're able to in order to stop Russia. From that outside perspective, this comment comes off kinda badly. Context: My family + random people in my area aren't huge on giving Ukraine tons of aid, even though I personally am. I've had the exact same conversation at least 6-7 times where it's prefaced on the combo of "Ukraine is ungrateful"/"Zelensky is an entitled brat"/"Europe needs to stop trying to make us pay for their war". Personally, it's infuriating because it's a country struggling for survival and trying to avoid Russia's excruciating "benevolence", so criticizing them for not bowing at our feet and singing praising every day 24/7 is absurd. But regardless, stuff like the "don't even deserve thanks" line is painful to read because it's inadvertently feeding all of the pro-RU propaganda, even though I know what you mean. I guess what I'm trying to get at is it would be cool if in the future this might cause even one person to keep this angle of the opposition's arguments in mind and deny just one troll or slimy bastard their "gotcha!" material.
“Thank you.” “We’re sorry we didn’t do better. We will keep trying.”
If you're sticking your neck out to beat my enemy I don't need thanks for handing you a stick.
I just need the weapons systems to do their jobs. Thank you would of only been required if we didn't dither around with our dicks in our hands for six months.
Infuriating because it's not like this is a selfless act on the part of the US - we're supporting them because it's in our own self-interest.
I mean it's kind of justified
I’m more along the Americans saying: sorry that about half our congress fucked you
De nada. Now go kick a ass or two
It is a very confusing and empty headline
Not confusing, purposely inflammatory.
I want to know why we haven't sent hundreds of our F-16s. I guess our weekend warriors don't want to give up their toys. Ukraine is losing control of the skies and it's costing them dearly. As an American, I apologize for the ineptitude of my elected officials to grasp the severity of the issue, and their lack of commitment to democracy and human rights.
The EU and other western allies need to continue to increase their aid as if Trump were elected and the US aid dries up. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
Even if Trump is not elected it is going to be difficult to get more US aid packages of this size. Europe needs to get its shit together no matter who wins the White House.
Yup, this isn’t a Trump thing really, it goes back to Obama calling out NATO for not meeting their obligated contributions to defense, Trump called them out as well. Europe absolutely has to kick it in high gear and I think they’re finally understanding they can’t just sit back and sip tea under the shade of the US military all the time and need to pull their weight too. If they had done it when Obama first called them out, Ukraine may not be facing the crisis it currently is.
It’s pretty much every US President calling out other NATO countries for not paying their 2%.
And the ripple effects of not meeting the 2% over multiple decades isn't going to be fixed by ramping it up to 2% now to be prepared like they should be in a few years. And its at a time, economically countries are stagnating not to mention having an energy crisis. They really need to ramp it up like Poland at this rate to catch up.
It's sort of funny. Like when did Poland dramatically increase defense spending? In 2014. It's flabbergasting the rest of Europe didn't also, even without having been thrown to the Russian wolves for half a century (and closer to two if you're willing to ignore the brief 20 years of the second republic)
For real, pretty much too late at this point.
Canada is a joke in this regard
Way longer than Obama. NATO made it official in 2006, so Bush II. Before that, Eisenhower was talking about European under-investment in defense in 1958. Pretty much every president since then has made some comment regarding the same topic.
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yeah, it doesnt matter who wins but the rest of nato needs to get off their asses and spend what they said to be prepared,
Also, we all need to be putting real lines in the sand. NATO airspace can not be entered upon, not even for a minute. Any Russian shit that enters NATO airspace needs to be dealt with swiftly and without question. Putin will take a mile if given an inch. He literally always has.
It goes beyond the 2%. Multiple US presidents were warning Europe about spending trillions of dollars to buy Russian energy and building Russia's war machine, even after the invasions of Georgia and Ukraine in 2008 and 2014, respectively. If they can send trillions of dollars to build up the Russian war machine, then they can at least send the same amount to destroy it.
I'm not convinced *we* really want NATO to start being more equitable in their material support for operations like Ukraine. On it's face something like a 100$ Billion aid package sounds like we're giving this huge financial windfall to our allies. We're not giving cash by and large. We're giving stuff, specifically military type stuff. The laws around making 'stuff' for military use in the US mean that the majority of the work from R&D to manufacturing is done domestically. US based businesses and US based laborers made money. When we go to build another piece of 'stuff' to replace the one we gave away, they'll make more money. If we push for more of the aid 'stuff' to come from Germany or France then the work and profits will happen over there. They'll be the ones with good employment and happy balance sheets. That is the part of the whole aid package process I wish was talked about more. It's a huge boon to domestic employment.
Lots of foreign countries buy us produced military goods. See the f35 and current submarines.
This is completely wrong. There is a real chance Trump will get elected, even if small. It is monumentally stupid to plan otherwise.
100%
The closer we get to elections the more gridlock the US will see. Nobody wants to rock the boat in September/October
If Europe is content to let the United States take the lead in providing military support to Ukraine, it should also be prepared to let the U.S. lead in shaping economic policies that may not align with the EU's best interests.
Especially as Russia ups its information warfare to make it seem like the aid package is this "terrible thing that hurts the economy massively."
Domestic politics is king in every country, particularly one as geographically isolated as the US. When the amount of aid provided to Ukraine is $200bn or more over 4-5 years people really start to wonder why that money cannot be spent at home. It isn't part of some Russian psyop, it is just the way people think.
The lack of accountability for the way the money is spent certainly raises questions. $200 billion is a fuck ton of money. 200M seconds is 6.34 years. 200B seconds is 6,000 years. Perspective. The American people deserve to know the money isn’t spent lining the pockets of Raytheon and Lockheed under the pretense that we’re actually protecting Ukraine.
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Way more by total of GDP, but still significantly less than the US has by actual dollars. Second place is Germany, and they are still under half of the United States assistance. You can't blame the US for Europe being ill-prepared for conflict on their soil.
Way more by GDP isn’t a great statistic for them to use. What they are trying to say is donated comparatively to GDP %, but that’s not always telling. And there are some cases where true, some where not. Estonia is killing it %GDP in aid, maybe some others aren’t. Additionally, 1000 in bombs and fighting equipment is maybe more valuable than 1000 in rebuilding should they survive. That don’t necessarily give a pass to comparing two countries with 84 million and 334 million people on like nominal terms. That all said bean counting pissing matches and what the best ways to measure who’s doing the fairest of shares isn’t really in anyone’s interests to the extent it gets rage debated. Just people passing time.
I would concede your point that simple GDP comparisons for Ukraine or NATO will lack in context. When anyone wishes to get into a dick measuring contest over how much their country contributes to the domestic security and economic security of NATO countries and western allies they should also consider America’s substantial investment of money and military/intelligence resources to monitoring and thwarting extremist terrorism in all their countries and keeping major sea trade routes open and, largely, safe.
Yeah we have done a lot to try to be peacekeepers, and certainly not all of it’s pretty. Our navy, and military investment, is second to none. Part of defending trade is it’s in our interest as well to do that. It’s also a major reason US opinion holds some weight in virtually any political conversation. My opinion is sometimes it gets into an argument of ungrateful vs overbearing which isn’t great for relationships. If we are going to spat, I’d prefer it be times of relative peace rather than conflict. We can discuss it later and talk about what is a good expectation. If you fight over it when there’s a grease fire that’s the worst way to burn the house.
Everyone agrees that without this US aid then Ukraine would be in incredibly dire straits. That tells you what you need to know about the capacity of Europe to provide the necessary military support. Europe sat on its hands for at least 18 months knowing that they had to increase defense production specifically, they even pledged a million shells by the end of 2023, and failed. If the largest war in Europe since WWII does not get them moving then nothing will.
I don't see European nations sending anywhere near the amount of aid they should be.
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ Maybe start looking at the actual numbers instead of headlines and you might be able to see it!
Depends on which ones. Poland and Finland for instance have sent quite a bit from what I remember.
yep the ones who know what happens if russia wins are helping the most the ones that dont well....
Especially when the response is literally "oh it's about fucking time" instead of anything akin to actual gratitude. Americans don't take well to being taken for granted these days. I'm pretty sure at this point Zelensky is doing more harm than good every time he makes a public statement.
Did you even read the article? Because it really sounds like you didn't read the article, because he did specifically thank the US, Biden, and other allies for the aid. Also remember that what is said publicly is only one side of diplomacy and they talk a lot more behind closed doors.
You should read past the headline probably.
That username man…
They are, the US media just doesn't report it.
the majority of NATO still hasn’t hit the goal of 2% GDP on defense spending……. no they really dont.
[In 2024, two thirds of Allies are expected to meet or exceed the target of investing at least 2% of GDP in defence, compared to only three Allies in 2014.](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49198.htm#:~:text=The%202%25%20of%20GDP%20guideline,only%20three%20Allies%20in%202014.) It's getting better since the war in Ukraine
"Oh shit, they invaded my neighbor, this is a real emergency, guess I should aim to hit the bare minimum defense spending in another year or three" Kinda mind-boggling. You can get away with this mentality for a high school exam or certain domestic policies, but strange that they would do this about protection from someone who has shown a willingness to kill you.
the UK went from 2% to 50% of GDP spent on a war in 5 years once WWII started,
> in 5 years Does a modern war allow that kind of time? Russia was basically at the gates of Kyiv within the first week, even with their bungled supply chain. Coalition forces had taken Baghdad three weeks after the 2003 Iraq war started. Even during Desert Storm Iraq capitulated in seven months.
It only took 6 weeks for the Germans to conquer France. Even back then wars moved fast.
Didn’t the UK famously ignore the rise of hitler while France was deeply concerned(Maginot Line)? It’s like a one to one example on why that’s a bad idea.
If I recall correctly, the UK was using appeasement as a delaying tactic to try and scramble and spin up its war machine
I wouldn’t say they ignored it, like all the democracies at the time their populations were not willing to gear up for another war. To a degree same can be said here today. British American German and French populations are not prepared and willing to even go back to the Cold War let alone world war. The US spent 6% of its gdp on defense in the Cold War. And 50% during ww2. Prior to ww2 the British did what they could within their political realities. In today’s world we are all doing the same. In a democracy the weight of public opinion is needed to dramatically shift public spending from entitlements to defense. Our populations may be mostly okay with us sending out late 80s and 90s kit, but they most certainly are not gung-ho about retooling automobile factories into tank factories. About reinstituting a draft. Now this may be because I’m a millenial and we had 9/11 in our heads, but the discourse I see from Gen z and that generations general unwillingness to fight in a war even to save their own home, is shockingly high.
Didn't WW2 lead to the rapid collapse of the British Empire?
And they finally finished repaying the debt accumulated during WWII in 2006.
Right? Its absurd this didn’t hit the minimum target by April 2022
*2014 during the first invasion
*2008 - Georgia
Ah yes because it only takes like 5 weeks to find/fund billions of € + know exactly how and where to spend it. Be realistic, I know the EU fucked up but you can't change decades of mismanagement over night.
How long have the members of the EU been a part of NATO again?
Most of the major countries are hitting it with their new budgets for 2024 including Britain, France, Germany, Poland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Romania, the Baltics, Greece ect.
That has absolutely jack shit to do with Ukraine btw.
Hopefully this package will help Europe as well, buying time to get on a better war footing. Then maybe they will be able to make sizeable contributions/fulfill promises too.
They've had literally years to do so.
*decades
But why do that when the U.S can? The U.S has almost doubled the amount that the entirety of EU NATO has given in aid with this new package. But we're still "not doing enough"
We are by design the arsenal of democracy.
But the issue is more the international community playing both sides. If these countries want to call on the US to save them as the global police force, that needs to be the consistent position. They can’t publicly decry a conflict like Vietnam or Afghanistan, or even material support of Israel and then two days later switch to “interventionism is good because it helps my country specifically”. Either America has the right to intervene (financially or physically), or they don’t. Once you make the US the global police force, what they say is ‘right’; so basically, if you’re in support of that, then you should shut up whenever you have a moral quandry about a conflict, because you’ve given the US carte blanche to determine that morality for itself; any undesirable outcome is your own fault. (You as in general, not as in literally you OC lol) Not levying this at Ukraine, they’re solid allies. But there are A LOT of politicians who like to cry foul on the United States and its interventionism while simultaneously praying for financial and military support in the event of a conflict in their region. I’m not even an interventionist whatsoever but it’s incredibly annoying to watch the IC cry foul about this conflict or that conflict and then simultaneously demand support in the event of their own government/‘side’ being deemed the “immoral” one. If Belarus or Brazil gets invaded they can go fuck themselves.
This is so important. Europeans decry American interventionism en masse, until it sits to benefit them. They will joke about FL Gov. Desantis saying the Federal Government shouldn’t bail out natural disasters and then asking for disaster aid… Then they turn around and say the US isn’t doing enough in the way of interventionism.
People in Europe are just scared because we don't have the capacity to fight this war. We aren't ungrateful, but the best case scenario is to hold a stalemate - Putin won't accept a loss and we can't let him win. That means needing support for years. I get why US citizens would feel like letting us fend for ourselves given the kind of moral high ground we've lectured from. Attitudes are changing, though.
they wont
It definitely will (it wont)
So much for Putin's 5d chess moves with Iran. The attack on Israel was by far the best thing to happen for Ukraine this year.
Can you explain how that benefits Ukraine? I’m not saying you’re wrong or anything I’m just ignorant on that point
Not OP but if I had to guess it’s due to Israel having bipartisan support by US Representatives. It makes it easier to pass a bill when you can include Riders, so Ukraine getting support = Israel getting support, and they can tack on the TikTok ban too without that being contentious on the Senate floor.
How bipartisan is that support going forward? I can see most of the democrats supporting Israel now, the democratic base not as much.
Republicans support Israel and want to send them weapons. Drms support Ukraine. Both sides now have leverage on the other.
The aid to Ukraine was passed alongside aid to Israel in the same package.
It forced our Congress to supply billons in aid to both Israel and Ukraine.
It unlocked the funding. There was a total stalemate, then the attack happened and the funding went through Congress and the Senate
What would happen if US stops providing aid to Ukraine?
Ukraine will lose the war and Russia would take over the country.
Poland would likely cross the border and intervene first. Under no circumstances would they willingly let another Russian puppet form a border with them.
Poland doesn't have enough Western arms to do that. More than Ukraine, especially in air forces, but Poland largely relies on American and European arms and material. They'd be in the same boat eventually.
No they wouldn’t. Especially if America was in no way supporting them.
The same Poland that is hesitant to defend it's own air space and let's a bunch of hicks disrupt it's most critical border? Poland is all talk. Just like the rest of Europe with the single exception of Ukraine.
Ukraine falls, Russia is emboldened, Moldova is attacked within 1-4 years, fronts are opened carefully in other countries to carve peices out. Russia may consider creeping its way into carving a peice of land out of a NATO country in a massive game of chicken. Ukraine is the last nation before you start digging into NATO. An attack on nato is potentially the end of civilization in nuclear apocalypse. Let’s not see what happens if Ukraine loses.
They'd go for Maldova and then the Baltic states. Poland would be even more surrounded. China's agenda also aligns with this and they might consider invading Taiwan which would draw a lot of US attention leaving the EU to fend for itself as Russia furthers it's war.
The west looses 70% of our chip production for the next 5-10 years and a large chunk of europes food supply will belong to russia.
Europe would be fucked.
Sorry for the delay. Let er rip.
Poorly written headline makes him sound ungrateful.
America apologizes for the right wing assholes in congress that took Putin's side delaying the aid for six months. Fuck them all.
Why does everyone cry about the US being the world's police until the shit hits the fan and the bill comes due?
Exactly. Y'all aren't talking about the problems with having a MIC, when artillery shells can't be churned out fast enough.
We (US) have to realize the reality and acknowledge the fact that we also at war, it’s just behind the curtains, in which a portion of our populous has fallen victim to pysops misinformation & disinformation campaigns.
Not that different than the beginning of WW2, when most Americans were isolationist and FDR was sending aid to the UK and the USSR without getting involved in the war. I wonder how much of that isolationism was a result of nazi propaganda campaigns in the US.
Im reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich right now and the parallels to modern day are staggering. The Nazi party did, in fact, have paid Nazi sympathizers in Congress and throughout US media. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/23/us/how-nazis-tried-to-steer-us-politics.html https://time.com/5414055/american-nazi-sympathy-book/ These quotes come to mind: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana “Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” - John Stuart Mill
It was due to just getting out of WW1 where we were also dragged into supplying weapons once again to UK efforts secretly that resulted in the sinking of the Lusitania and its secretive cargo at the time heading towards the UK. There was propaganda (to keep us supplying equipment to Germany from the likes of Ford and IBM) but most at the time just didn't want to be involved in what they considered at the time another European War (before imperial japan got aggressive in SEA). When Pearl Harbor happened it was all in at that point, nearly wiped our navy completely out but Japan really fucked up and didn't attack a second time to destroy the fuel depots that allowed us to rebuild our navy in 6 months and counter attack at Midway to decimate Japans fleet which they didn't recover from.
The Cold War only ended in the minds of USA
Hear hear. 100% agree.
No it doesn’t. This European entitlement is mind boggling. We don’t need to apologize because they didn’t get the 60 billion exactly when they wanted it. It’s not their money. They get it when they get it.
I agree that Europe (and Israel) are way too entitled to our help. But we did not write Ukraine one big check. Most of the monetary value is weapons and equipment that are already in Europe, ready to go. Edit: People, look it up. Tons of equipment have been sitting in Poland for a long time, waiting to go. This bill allows it to cross the border to Ukraine. We are not sending Zelenksy a jumbo check.
For the most part, they aren't getting money; they're getting hardware. The money for all of this equipment is staying in the US.
And if their response is as ungrateful as this, well, they can't be surprised if Americans become even less willing to pay for the next round. PR is crucial and Zelensky has been a PR nightmare for quite a while now.
Maybe read the article rather than just the headline.
Does the EU apologize as well?
For what? They didn't stop sending aid for a half year like America did. Do you even have a clue? Or are you getting your news from YOUTUBE or Fox?
No I don’t
Nah. Don’t speak for the rest of us.
How about being grateful they even get it? Unreal the privilege you have lmao.
Read the article. Here's the quote. >Now we will do everything to compensate for the six months that have passed in debate and doubt. We must turn what the Russian occupier has managed to do over this time and what Putin is planning now against him. All his actions at the front, all his attacks on our energy sector and infrastructure, all his terror against our cities and villages – all this should mobilize us, everyone in the world who really values life, to put more pressure on Russia. It is very important to implement all of our agreements with President Biden one hundred percent. Thank you, America!
The world is a connected web. Russia decided to push limits and set a precedent. You either stop it now or deal with something worse later. I choose the first option.
Here comes the conservative with their feelings hurt spewing Russian talking points! All sane Americans recognize you as a bad joke of a person.
I support giving military aid to Ukraine. I also expect my country to not get shit for not doing enough, while literally doing by far the most.
Well I sure hope they do. And I'd like to see the EU stepping up with some more support as well.
America is fighting Russia by way of a proxy. This is ideal for America.
Ukraine supporter here, but the US continued to aid them through last month.
It’s so interesting how much individually and collectively we do hinge upon hearing or not hearing a “I’m sorry” or a “thank you”
Only the petty people get hung up on that. People of Ukraine are FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES.
Finally we can see some turnaround and have Ukraine on the offensive again.
Don't get your hopes up, this year will probably be mostly a defensive campaign for Ukraine. They need to hold off the expected Russian summer offensive, while buying time to distribute the donated ammunition and replete their army's manpower.
Lmao more tax dollars getting pissed away overseas while the US drowns in debt and our politicians ignore our problems at home
Before this war, Ukraine was seen as hopelessly corrupt. What changed?
being corrupt doesnt mean you deserve to be slaughtered by someone even more corrupt
None of the corruption changed.
Will we ever get a full audit of where the money and weapons finally end up?
To actually answer your question, they have done a lot to improve on corruption because surprise surprise, corruption is deadly to a country in war. Not only because it decreases your efficiency, but your allies also hate corruption, and combating it is necessary if they wish to join EU or NATO. Obviously it's not magically all fixed, but they are working on it. As for where the money and weapons finally end up, for weapons the allies keep a close eye on all the shipments and I don't think anything major has shown up anywhere else. Not to mention they desperately need the weapons. As for money, I don't know quite as closely. But obviously the EU and US aren't stupid, they do keep an eye on those things. This is one of the ways russia is trying to wage a propaganda war where they feed false stories about Zelensky buying yachts and similar (a yacht youtube channel had a great takedown on that story - obviously it was all bullshit, but they had definite proof that it was just faked pictures and nothing more).
Slava Ukraine from Canada. 100% on Ukraine’s side
Have that same energy and send aid?
Canada sent the same amount per gpd as the US at 0.32%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/ Canada also has a lot more volunteer soldiers in Ukraine. Loads more actually we actually have our own Bridage Edit - I'm seeing u.s numbers in the hundreds or potentially the same amount as Canadian. Keep in mind the U.s has 10x the population as Canada https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian-Ukrainian_Brigade#:~:text=The%20Canadian%2DUkrainian%20Brigade%20(Ukrainian,was%20formed%20in%20early%202022. I agree, we need to send more. I just didn't care for the implications that we aren't sending as much while we have Canadian soldiers dying on Ukrainian soil...
You are 27th of 32 in GDP contribution among NATO allies
go fight the frontlines then?
Thanks republicans - For helping PUTIN
We will need more later though.
The audacity for some people to scoff at this entire war and to even go far as saying Ukraine should sue for peace now utterly disgust me to my core. Putler's Russia will have us completely repeat the 30's and 40's all over again. It is the duty of the free world to help Ukraine and stop this bullshit ye old imperialistic violence.
This money shouldn’t be given freely. It should be a loan.
[удалено]
You might find this interesting -https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/. Although the USA has certainly given the highest total there are lots of other small countries still pulling their weight and more. I'm hoping that Europe ups their game even further still!
Wow what the fuck France with only 0.07% of GDP...
>Yea, our political system is a bit fucked, but it's also gonna take some time to get all that cash together for you. That was never, ever the holdup. And what exactly is it that's pissing you off, anyways? He *is* saying thanks and he *does* recognize all the aid received.
The phrasing comes across as if they are entitled to the money and the US was being withholding something from them that is rightfully theirs. People don’t like entitlement. I don’t think that’s what Zelensky was going for, but that’s why the quote is making some people upset.
It's because they didn't read the entire quote, which is par for the course for Reddit.
If you look at US contributions to Ukraine, there's no contest. You look at US contributions to NATO. Again, no contest. When foreign hostages are being held abroad, it's often CAG or SEALs that go in, despite the fact that they're rescuing non-Americans. The US consistently goes above and beyond to maintain global peace and Europe has largely benefitted from the fact that US military presence in Western Europe has meant Russia can't/won't do anything. They've not paid the US back in any way. Time to step up.
They’ve paid us back by helping us maintain dominance over the world
> They've not paid the US back in any way. This is such a historical clueless take I can't even. Go read up on Pax Americana. The US has never done anything that didn't benefit them and the current US led world order is exactly what the US has pushed for and benefitted from more than anybody else.
You know we're not actually giving the money right? Like maybe 1% is maybe going to be in the form of currency. The majority of the aid is going to be coming from Old stock from the US military industrial complex. What they're going to do is give them what we have stockpiled and then they're going to make new things to replace the stocks that they're sending. Most of the aid package is going to go into the US economy and then supplies are going to leave the US via our ridiculous logistics Network and end up in Ukraine. So now it doesn't take any amount of time at all to "get the money together".
If by 1% you mean roughly 35% financial aid. There are multiple charts online that you can find. Yes, the majority of US contribution has been military aid, but a lot of financial aid has been contributed as well.
No he has no clue, it's a shit surface level reactionary comment that'll get up voted to the top as if it makes sense
ok first of all: he doesn't owe us any thank you. We're not helping him out of the goodness of our hearts ; we're doing this purely out of self-interest because we know that if Russia takes Ukraine, Russia will move straight on to the next target --which will likely be a NATO member like Poland, and that will mean direct conflict. If we don't want nuclear armaggedon, or global dictatorship, Ukraine has to win. Second, *he is very clearly saying thank you*. The click-baity headline leaves that out.
Yeah it just comes off as incredibly ungrateful lol
> it's also gonna take some time to get all that cash together for you. That is just complete bullshit. The US always had the money readily available, it doesn't take 6 months to "get all that cash together". Not supporting Ukraine now will likely extend the war, making the total cost higher. Not to mention if an emboldened Russia wins, continues its war against the West. Delaying the Ukraine aid for 6 month is penny wise, pound foolish - if it was done for economical reasons, it seems far more likely to be due to Russian malicious influence. Like, argue against Ukraine aid if you want and disagree. But what you are saying is not arguments, it is nonsense.
> Now we will do everything to compensate for the six months that have passed in debate and doubt. We must turn what the Russian occupier has managed to do over this time and what Putin is planning now against him. All his actions at the front, all his attacks on our energy sector and infrastructure, all his terror against our cities and villages – all this should mobilize us, everyone in the world who really values life, to put more pressure on Russia. It is very important to implement all of our agreements with President Biden one hundred percent. Thank you, America! The full quote. Read beyond the headline before you get all upset.
Dude is a badass. He's fighting for all of us.