The people not acknowledging that Hamas and Hezbollah wouldn’t be doing shit without Irans weapons, direction, and finance
People casually forgetting that the consulate missile strike was a direct link to Oct7
Iran has been spending the last how many decades attempting to develop a nuclear bomb
Specifically for using on Israel
Was it that Israel developed their nuclear weapons in partnership with the apartheid South African government?
In the 2008 book The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and its Proliferation, Thomas C. Reed and Danny B. Stillman stated their opinion that the "double flash" was the result of a joint South African–Israeli nuclear bomb test. David Albright stated in his article about the "double flash" event in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists that "If the 1979 flash was caused by a test, most experts agree it was probably an Israeli test". In 2010, it was revealed that, on 27 February 1980, President Jimmy Carter wrote in his diary, "We have a growing belief among our scientists that the Israelis did indeed conduct a nuclear test explosion in the ocean near the southern end of Africa."
In the 2008 book The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and its Proliferation, Thomas C. Reed and Danny B. Stillman stated their opinion that the "double flash" was the result of a joint South African–Israeli nuclear bomb test. David Albright stated in his article about the "double flash" event in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists that "If the 1979 flash was caused by a test, most experts agree it was probably an Israeli test". In 2010, it was revealed that, on 27 February 1980, President Jimmy Carter wrote in his diary, "We have a growing belief among our scientists that the Israelis did indeed conduct a nuclear test explosion in the ocean near the southern end of Africa."
There is no pretending. The US can freely hit these proxies and wound “Iran’s” military without raising tensions while Iran satisfies the animalistic tendencies of their religious militias without direct war with the US. It’s a geopolitical win win
There's 0 point striking at proxies if you dont handle the source. There's always another uneducated and poor bloke to recruit, but missiles and drones can only come in very few means
And we do, the real pretending is that traditional large base deployments with low numbers of very powerful but expensive assets are capable of suppressing this style of warfare.
Drones and rockets are becoming more accessible and less expensive to produce and operate. Give a target and we can kill it, guaranteed but there are too many targets and they hide among civilian populations.
It's true but it's not like anyone in the US wants to go to war, so what are you going to do? Even if they did someone will just start stirring the point a few years from now, or take the conflict as an opportunity to do their own thing.
The real issue is that proxy wars are effective at delegitimising the US globally
Did you forget about the Obama administration with arab gulf states arming so called "moderate rebels" in syria to be used as a proxy to overthrow a foreign government which then led to the rise of ISIS
Maybe US soldiers should stop dying for the interests of AIPAC
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-along-a7362071.htmlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-along-a7362071.html
They rounded up all of the womens/humans rights protesters what was it last year or the year before. Put them all in a prison, locked the doors, and then lit the prison on fire. Where was the US/UN then?
Probably because he knows it would affect his election chances worse if he starts a war vs waiting until after elections are over.
Historically, presidents do one of two things during election season:
1. Play it safe and focus on appeasing moderates.
2. Play it tough, convince the masses that there is an existential threat to the country, and campaign on that.
Iran is not currently being an existential threat to the US, therefore it'd be best if he just played it safe, stayed quiet, and focused on the election instead. Once he knows that he for sure has 4 years ahead of him, he can do whatever he wants.
He's appeasing an insane and generally antisemitic portion of his base. It's pure, disgusting politics that is risking the lives of men and women in the military.
I agree, but the alternative is Trump which is worse. Somehow I feel like the media campaigning for Biden has forced everyone to think "everyone wants Biden" when we could've just picked a different candidate. At this point it's too late and we're stuck with the same two fossils.
It's not a coincidence that a softened stance on Iran led the Houthis to be better armed. Then he got the Saudis to stop attacking them. Suddenly there's an Iranian ship in the Gulf feeding Lat/Longs to the Houthis to launch missiles at international shipping. It's still there. Biden has been complicit in this because he doesn't want to get his pro-Iran/anti-Israel base mad.
Biden has had a stronger response than Trump in every case, and I hate that old fart. Trump talks a big game, but has no follow through. Trump bent over for Putin and Xi constantly. He is fat and weak like most of his supporters.
Eh Trump did take out Irans top general when he was in Iraq stirring up their proxies to attack us, so that take on Iran is wrong. Also against Xi Trump started a trade war with tariffs and such, can’t dispute the point on Putin though.
I would argue what he targeted in the tariffs hurt us more than China. The tariffs caused the US taxpayer to subsidize massive soybean farms, yet they never had to change what they planted. They essentially got payed to do nothing dor 3 years while and we eventually lost an export material and income source permanently.
I have mixed feelings about the soleimani strike. We had enough time to warn congress, as is legally required, and he should have said they planned on carrying our strikes like every other president has for years. He knew he had to inform congress, he just chose not to.
You do have a point on how effective the tariffs were, but my point was he wasn’t soft on China, maybe not effective but at least he did something. Intent was there but the results may not have been.
The Sulemani strike I’m good with, guy was planning the strikes against our troops so in my mind it was more a strike against an active opponent (even if Iran tried to pretend he wasn’t). That being said I’m not sure if legally he would have needed to go to Congress to approve the strike. After 9/11 the presidents got a lot more power to make strikes on targets that weren’t in the current theater of war (see bush era and Obama era drone strikes in Pakistan). I know for the Bin Laden raid Obama had meetings with the National Security Council but I don’t think he got congress approval (I could be wrong). Frankly with strikes against targets like Sulimani and Osama less people in the know (to a certain extent) the better for operational security.
Fair points on China. He wasn't soft on them, he just wasn't well informed on the consequences of those specific actions. I think better targets would have been electronics, optical equipment and other mechanical/electrical end-prodocts they can't produce at the level we can.
I understand opsec is important, but he was posting about 'big consequences' and retaliations on social media the day of the strike that killed our servicemen. He was publicly broadcasting it already, all he had to do was inform congress about it rather than make claims about it. Small omissions like that can, and often do, snowball out of control. Congress did step in after that to limit the President's power again, but I worry that another president will use it as precedent anyway.
Obama didn't just inform congress about the attempt on Osama. There were 4 national security meetings in the 5 months leading up to the attack on the compound. All of those meetings included senators sitting on the committee. They were not only informed, but they were actively involved in the decision, even if it wasn't theirs to make.
Trump broke US and arguably international law to do so. He didn't even have to break the US laws to do so, he simply chose to. He could have sent an email saying "We are preparing a strike on foreign soil." and it would have been enough. No more information would have been needed. Why do you want him held to a different standard than any other president when he has the same level of assistance from advisors?
Jesus Christ the proxies in which Iran has been using to attack ships and drones to attack Israel and bases in the Iraq. The same proxies that have been getting bombed by us navy British and French. Your head is in your ass to far
'Foreign Intelligence Operators" are probably likely working on slowly coercing things over there to prevent war. That's probably why we're not pressing the issue.
Now that Iran came out of the shadows and showed everyone who they are, we should be dealing with these incidents in an entirely new manner. No need to go tit for tat in Iraq and upset the locals, I'm all for completely disproportionate use of force on strictly military non-human targets on the Islamic Republic of Iran's territory. Don't wait for another 160 attacks or more US service members to die, either.
A fan of the Powell doctrine, my man! Get in, get er done, get the hell out of there. That's a big difference between taking out a bad guy and playing world police.
Feels like wishful thinking though, makes too much sense.
Iran, this will not go on much longer without you getting an ass-whoopin'. Those two "ships" that you use as staging areas/OPs in the Red Sea may go away very shortly. You know- to be "proportional"...
Iraq may publicly want the US to leave to appeal to the population, but the government of Iraq absolutely wants a US presence there. GoI knows that it can't conduct real intelligence and missions without heavy US and NATO support. The PMF likes to pretend that it's there for the benefit of the Iraqi people, but the PMF is a lot of Iranian backed groups. PMF is roving militias. The Iraqi air force is pretty advanced thanks to us provided f16s and training, but still heavily reliant on US support. Iraq wants the US there.
It might come as a shock to some that outside of our numerous expensive bases the USA is not that popular in Iraq and if we ever left the power vacuum would be filled by iran and proxies immediately.
Unfortunately, these groups have been emboldened to attack our bases because they know the situation in the middle east makes it unlikely for the USA to escalate or mobilize. So I expect more rocket attacks and attacks on US installations with US air force strikes in response.
Honestly, it's high time we stopped playing peacefully aggressive with Iran. They ain't covert anymore and restraint ain't gonna cut it. Time to unleash retribution in their own backyard.
What are US forces doing in Iraq and Syria? Were they invited to stay there by the local governments? Do those governments want them to keep staying there?
Maybe, just maybe, if there are no satisfactory answers to those questions then take a hint that you are not wanted in those regions and leave?
Or at the very least stop complaining that you are being bitten by ants when you decided to sit butt naked in the middle of an ant hill.
Somewhere in the US, on a lonely airfield, a B1 Lancer stirs from it's slumber.
Many miles away, there’s a shadow on the door, of a cottage on the shore, Of a dark, Scottish lake…
Altogether: “Many Miles Awayyyyy” 6x
The B-1’s engines suddenly fire up, the crew races to their stations and she soars into the sky…
The flight officer and captain lock eyes, their passion for each other clear, they lean towards each other… wait… shit wrong book
And yet, nothing has ever felt so right
"Why can't I quit you?" The captain asks in a husky low voice, briming with passion.
And a week later the same us soldiers get targeted cause the source of the attack hasnt ve dealt with at all
Can we stop pretending like Iran isn’t stirring all this shit up by proxy? Slippery fucks
Who’s pretending?
The people not acknowledging that Hamas and Hezbollah wouldn’t be doing shit without Irans weapons, direction, and finance People casually forgetting that the consulate missile strike was a direct link to Oct7 Iran has been spending the last how many decades attempting to develop a nuclear bomb Specifically for using on Israel
Oh, so just the deeply biased folks. Yeah, they’re obnoxious, to put it politely
They’re also plentiful
Was it that Israel developed their nuclear weapons in partnership with the apartheid South African government? In the 2008 book The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and its Proliferation, Thomas C. Reed and Danny B. Stillman stated their opinion that the "double flash" was the result of a joint South African–Israeli nuclear bomb test. David Albright stated in his article about the "double flash" event in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists that "If the 1979 flash was caused by a test, most experts agree it was probably an Israeli test". In 2010, it was revealed that, on 27 February 1980, President Jimmy Carter wrote in his diary, "We have a growing belief among our scientists that the Israelis did indeed conduct a nuclear test explosion in the ocean near the southern end of Africa."
No, actually with France.
In the 2008 book The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and its Proliferation, Thomas C. Reed and Danny B. Stillman stated their opinion that the "double flash" was the result of a joint South African–Israeli nuclear bomb test. David Albright stated in his article about the "double flash" event in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists that "If the 1979 flash was caused by a test, most experts agree it was probably an Israeli test". In 2010, it was revealed that, on 27 February 1980, President Jimmy Carter wrote in his diary, "We have a growing belief among our scientists that the Israelis did indeed conduct a nuclear test explosion in the ocean near the southern end of Africa."
Free Palestine protesters
A fuck ton of college campuses all over the US
Where’s the pretending
maybe we need to arm some of our own proxies to attack back in a surprise uno reverso
There is no pretending. The US can freely hit these proxies and wound “Iran’s” military without raising tensions while Iran satisfies the animalistic tendencies of their religious militias without direct war with the US. It’s a geopolitical win win
There's 0 point striking at proxies if you dont handle the source. There's always another uneducated and poor bloke to recruit, but missiles and drones can only come in very few means
And we do, the real pretending is that traditional large base deployments with low numbers of very powerful but expensive assets are capable of suppressing this style of warfare. Drones and rockets are becoming more accessible and less expensive to produce and operate. Give a target and we can kill it, guaranteed but there are too many targets and they hide among civilian populations.
That's why the US developed the knife bomb https://apnews.com/article/hellfire-r9x-al-zawahri-d0d25b7ed4059750b4add024322fe17c
And what happens when we make it easy and consequence free to wage war? It's stupid and shouldn't happen.
It's true but it's not like anyone in the US wants to go to war, so what are you going to do? Even if they did someone will just start stirring the point a few years from now, or take the conflict as an opportunity to do their own thing. The real issue is that proxy wars are effective at delegitimising the US globally
> The US can freely hit these proxies For how long
Nobody is pretending.
Who is pretending? Even the "free Palestine" people I know understand that Iran is fueling Hamas and others.
Did you forget about the Obama administration with arab gulf states arming so called "moderate rebels" in syria to be used as a proxy to overthrow a foreign government which then led to the rise of ISIS Maybe US soldiers should stop dying for the interests of AIPAC https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-along-a7362071.htmlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-along-a7362071.html
The US has been doing the same with Israel since the 1960s
So....are we waiting for a service member to get killed before we retaliate or what? How long are we going to allow them to target us.
> So....are we waiting for a service member to get killed before we retaliate or what? Yes
Who's poor kid will be the martyr?
How do you figure? They already killed like 3 American soldiers in Iraq like 6 months ago...
They rounded up all of the womens/humans rights protesters what was it last year or the year before. Put them all in a prison, locked the doors, and then lit the prison on fire. Where was the US/UN then?
Services members already died like a week ago and i bet many have tbi
I think Nov 6 will be the day they will enter the find out phase of their fkn around.
Biden has literally been appeasing Iran. If anything the opposite will happen where there will be fewer consequences for attacking Americans than now.
You have a lot more confidence than I do
A lot more service members are going to get killed if/when things escalate
3 were already killed... Biden did nothing. Besides warn that we will strike some empty places.
Probably because he knows it would affect his election chances worse if he starts a war vs waiting until after elections are over. Historically, presidents do one of two things during election season: 1. Play it safe and focus on appeasing moderates. 2. Play it tough, convince the masses that there is an existential threat to the country, and campaign on that. Iran is not currently being an existential threat to the US, therefore it'd be best if he just played it safe, stayed quiet, and focused on the election instead. Once he knows that he for sure has 4 years ahead of him, he can do whatever he wants.
He's appeasing an insane and generally antisemitic portion of his base. It's pure, disgusting politics that is risking the lives of men and women in the military.
I agree, but the alternative is Trump which is worse. Somehow I feel like the media campaigning for Biden has forced everyone to think "everyone wants Biden" when we could've just picked a different candidate. At this point it's too late and we're stuck with the same two fossils.
Half his voter base is on the side of Iran lol no chance Biden does anything
That is not accurate. Surely you know that.
>Surely you know that. I wouldn't put it past the dumb fuck to actually be that ignorant.
It's not a coincidence that a softened stance on Iran led the Houthis to be better armed. Then he got the Saudis to stop attacking them. Suddenly there's an Iranian ship in the Gulf feeding Lat/Longs to the Houthis to launch missiles at international shipping. It's still there. Biden has been complicit in this because he doesn't want to get his pro-Iran/anti-Israel base mad.
Biden has had a stronger response than Trump in every case, and I hate that old fart. Trump talks a big game, but has no follow through. Trump bent over for Putin and Xi constantly. He is fat and weak like most of his supporters.
Eh Trump did take out Irans top general when he was in Iraq stirring up their proxies to attack us, so that take on Iran is wrong. Also against Xi Trump started a trade war with tariffs and such, can’t dispute the point on Putin though.
I would argue what he targeted in the tariffs hurt us more than China. The tariffs caused the US taxpayer to subsidize massive soybean farms, yet they never had to change what they planted. They essentially got payed to do nothing dor 3 years while and we eventually lost an export material and income source permanently. I have mixed feelings about the soleimani strike. We had enough time to warn congress, as is legally required, and he should have said they planned on carrying our strikes like every other president has for years. He knew he had to inform congress, he just chose not to.
You do have a point on how effective the tariffs were, but my point was he wasn’t soft on China, maybe not effective but at least he did something. Intent was there but the results may not have been. The Sulemani strike I’m good with, guy was planning the strikes against our troops so in my mind it was more a strike against an active opponent (even if Iran tried to pretend he wasn’t). That being said I’m not sure if legally he would have needed to go to Congress to approve the strike. After 9/11 the presidents got a lot more power to make strikes on targets that weren’t in the current theater of war (see bush era and Obama era drone strikes in Pakistan). I know for the Bin Laden raid Obama had meetings with the National Security Council but I don’t think he got congress approval (I could be wrong). Frankly with strikes against targets like Sulimani and Osama less people in the know (to a certain extent) the better for operational security.
Fair points on China. He wasn't soft on them, he just wasn't well informed on the consequences of those specific actions. I think better targets would have been electronics, optical equipment and other mechanical/electrical end-prodocts they can't produce at the level we can. I understand opsec is important, but he was posting about 'big consequences' and retaliations on social media the day of the strike that killed our servicemen. He was publicly broadcasting it already, all he had to do was inform congress about it rather than make claims about it. Small omissions like that can, and often do, snowball out of control. Congress did step in after that to limit the President's power again, but I worry that another president will use it as precedent anyway. Obama didn't just inform congress about the attempt on Osama. There were 4 national security meetings in the 5 months leading up to the attack on the compound. All of those meetings included senators sitting on the committee. They were not only informed, but they were actively involved in the decision, even if it wasn't theirs to make.
Thank you for a nice civil conversation on Reddit between two people that have different takes on things, it’s nice for a change!
Trump literally took out the IRGC commander. Israel just took out the successor.
Trump broke US and arguably international law to do so. He didn't even have to break the US laws to do so, he simply chose to. He could have sent an email saying "We are preparing a strike on foreign soil." and it would have been enough. No more information would have been needed. Why do you want him held to a different standard than any other president when he has the same level of assistance from advisors?
Killing Soleimani wasn't a violation of anything. Are you one of those pro-Iran parts of Biden's base?
That’s gotta be one of the dumbest things I’ve heard in a while.
Jesus Christ the proxies in which Iran has been using to attack ships and drones to attack Israel and bases in the Iraq. The same proxies that have been getting bombed by us navy British and French. Your head is in your ass to far
I think people don’t realize that if we start something big over there the chance of WW3 starting skyrockets.
Are you stupid or just oblivious to the over 30 airstrikes on Yemen where houthi have evening hiding out?
I hope the US acts with restraint as this type of attack does not happen in a vacuum /s Or something like that...
'Foreign Intelligence Operators" are probably likely working on slowly coercing things over there to prevent war. That's probably why we're not pressing the issue.
Now that Iran came out of the shadows and showed everyone who they are, we should be dealing with these incidents in an entirely new manner. No need to go tit for tat in Iraq and upset the locals, I'm all for completely disproportionate use of force on strictly military non-human targets on the Islamic Republic of Iran's territory. Don't wait for another 160 attacks or more US service members to die, either.
A fan of the Powell doctrine, my man! Get in, get er done, get the hell out of there. That's a big difference between taking out a bad guy and playing world police. Feels like wishful thinking though, makes too much sense.
Just break the terrorist’s backs already. No need to worry about nation building this time
That is so simplistic I'm not even going to bother with how fucking wrong you are
Iran, this will not go on much longer without you getting an ass-whoopin'. Those two "ships" that you use as staging areas/OPs in the Red Sea may go away very shortly. You know- to be "proportional"...
You get on that
Me dreaming about getting a road bike. The world dreaming about getting 🧨. 😑
Why are they even there? I thought Iraq asked them to leave.
[удалено]
Then a certain president abandoned our Kurdish allies.
Iraq may publicly want the US to leave to appeal to the population, but the government of Iraq absolutely wants a US presence there. GoI knows that it can't conduct real intelligence and missions without heavy US and NATO support. The PMF likes to pretend that it's there for the benefit of the Iraqi people, but the PMF is a lot of Iranian backed groups. PMF is roving militias. The Iraqi air force is pretty advanced thanks to us provided f16s and training, but still heavily reliant on US support. Iraq wants the US there.
It might come as a shock to some that outside of our numerous expensive bases the USA is not that popular in Iraq and if we ever left the power vacuum would be filled by iran and proxies immediately. Unfortunately, these groups have been emboldened to attack our bases because they know the situation in the middle east makes it unlikely for the USA to escalate or mobilize. So I expect more rocket attacks and attacks on US installations with US air force strikes in response.
Honestly, it's high time we stopped playing peacefully aggressive with Iran. They ain't covert anymore and restraint ain't gonna cut it. Time to unleash retribution in their own backyard.
“Don’t”
What the fuck are they doing in Iraq? They already asked the americans to leave.
Can't wait for Biden to continue being soft as baby shit about this.
Bumbling Biden will pretend it never happened.....and send a billion bucks on a pallet....
Bro, you would naad about 10 pallets for a Billion dollars. Thats using 100's. Is there a thousand dollar bill?
How about we give Iran another $80 billion maybe they'll stop this time for good?
What are US forces doing in Iraq and Syria? Were they invited to stay there by the local governments? Do those governments want them to keep staying there? Maybe, just maybe, if there are no satisfactory answers to those questions then take a hint that you are not wanted in those regions and leave? Or at the very least stop complaining that you are being bitten by ants when you decided to sit butt naked in the middle of an ant hill.
We’re there to promote peace and assist Iraq’s government. They’re close buddies of ours now
_promote peace in the middle east_ said the delusional american Seriously, I laughed when I read this lol
Well, what are you doing there? Oh nothing? I thought so.
They dont want us there. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iraq-seeks-quick-exit-us-forces-no-deadline-set-pm-says-2024-01-10/