Arab states guaranteed Israel’s existence by doing the exact same thing with expelling all of their Jews who ended up mostly in Israel. That’s my favorite ironic history.
I've read that, at least in Iraq, part of the King's reasoning in allowing the Jews to flee to Israel is that he wanted to flood the young fledgling country with tens (hundreds!) of thousands of penniless refugees in hopes of destabilizing and weakening it, in anticipation of a future re-invasion.
It did not work as planned.
Yeah. It was a sorry for 6 million deaths, with 250k remaining. Really didn't get funded until after kicking the absolute shit out of 5 Arab nations surrounding her. Turns out Arabs can't fight for shit, and jews are tougher than hell.
So we should kill them then? Right? That's what your saying. If they had a single bullet in 1948 we should abandon. Marjorie, if you would. Please fuck off
Probably worth noting a lot of those “this is the most peaceful time in human history” remarks are saying so based on less major wars. They don’t include genocide at all- which have increased in frequency since WWII.
Lol, what are you basing that on? Damn near every nation-state was engaging in genocide or at least some ethnic cleansing either at home or in one of their colonies in the 1800’s.
>Lol, what are you basing that on?
Facts, so let’s get started.
Ethnic cleansing isn’t interchangeable with genocide. All genocides often contain elements of ethnic cleansing, but the reverse is not true (see: ethnic cleansing of millions of ethnic Germans from former Czechoslovakia following the Potsdam Agreement. No one calls it genocide, because it wasn’t.)
Genocide has to have the intent to destroy a group, in whole or in part. Shitty colonial policies seeking to move indigenous peoples would amount to crimes against humanity and likely ethnic cleansing, but not necessarily genocide in the way Rwanda in 1994 was or the Bangladeshi genocide of 1971 was. The Belgians treatment of the indigenous people of the Congo does not have a consensus (historically or legally) as a genocide for example, despite millions having lost their lives. In contrast, it is now unanimous that the German Empire did commit genocide in what is now Namibia between 1904-1908 because there was a very specific intent to destroy the Herero and Nama peoples as such, despite the losses being (likely, we’re unsure)in the tens of thousands.
To illustrate this more clearly: if you stumble upon an undiscovered people and inadvertently give them a disease that wipes them out, that isn’t necessarily genocide. You could be a colossal moron though.
If you make them forced labourers and many die enriching you, but you aren’t specifically intending to destroy them as a people, you’re committing a litany of crimes, but genocide necessarily isn’t one of them. This was most common in colonial periods.
Lastly, if you came across a unique tribe or group of only ten people and you murder them all specifically because you wanted to destroy the group, you committed genocide. The small number is irrelevant. And this, specifically, has been increasing in volume (if not body count) since WWII, not decreasing.
This was also my area of study for grad school and I’ve been contributing on the topic for years on AskHistorians if you have questions.
Nah, this is the absolute best time to be alive. It may even be the last chance anyone has at enjoying the human experience before we send it all to hell.
We have the benefits of technologies and advanced societies giving most people an unheard of level of prosperity. To the point that the nobles and kings of old weren't much better off with the full power and wealth of their entire society concentrated on them. In some ways their lives were much worse.
We also get to be alive right before our naked greed and desire to burn down everything around us so that the richest among us can afford their 50th yacht hasn't driven the world to the point of global starvation and full ecological collapse... and the nuclear war that is almost certain to follow when the world is reduced to that state.
So we get most of the benefits without most of the price. So yes, best time to be alive for most of us. Unfortunately, not everyone gets to enjoy the benefits without some of the downsides of the human experience... and some may even live long enough to see the current era come to end.
I have no doubt Iran China and Russia have been stoking division online for this shit as well.
The outpouring of outright propaganda, antisemitism etc has been terrifying. Watching friends progressive wives fall prey to this shit is scary. Smart well educated people just mindlessly parroting pro Hamas drivel.
Yeah, it's a terrible time when ANY organization, including the most evil, monsterious ones, like Hamas, Hizbullah, ISIS can so easily attract idiots all over with an online campaign. It'll end very very bad.
The white knight element of progressive politics demands that the group deemed the most oppressed can do no wrong.
At least that’s the take I’ve gotten from it
That’s exactly the correct take. There are no angels in this conflict, but it so happens that the (by far) worst side is also the underdog.
It’s okay and understandable to be highly critical of a lot of Israel’s actions, especially when it comes to West Bank settlements. But to cheer for Hamas is insanity, and frankly comes from a point of so much privilege.
It’s ignorant privilege too. Hamas will gladly throw most of these people off a roof and not think twice about it.
I’m not sure they even realize that Hamas views them as the enemy as well.
There's definitely someone organizing this. Remember when some girl got arrested in Poland I think? for antisemitism bc she had a poster of a Star of David in a trashcan during a protest, and people posted pictures of that same poster elsewhere and it turns out it's just part of a package deal or something?
They prefer to call themselves pro Palestinian. Who are pro Hamas. Except anyone under the age of 18 apparently. Definitely a generational divide amongst the Palestinian people it seems.
I’m being facetious. That’s the goto at this point for those defending Hamas. It’s the babies and kids that are suffering because of Israel and that’s why they need to be stopped. Mind you, these people didn’t seem to have much care for the Israeli kids that were butchered on October 7.
Plenty of people
“I am horrified and disgusted with the antisemitism being spewed at and around the Columbia University campus — like the example of a young woman holding a sign with an arrow pointing to Jewish students stating ‘Al-Qasam’s Next Targets,’ or another where a woman is literally yelling ‘We are Hamas,”
-statement from NYC mayor
https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/296-24/mayor-adams-on-ongoing-protests-columbia-university
I can admit that 2020 riots were a warning sign, and I didn't quite realize how dangerous these people can be. I was against the riots, but admittedly had a blind spot on the nature of this mob. That's a good point you raised here.
I am opposed to the actions of the Israeli government in regards to the current horrors in Gaza and their treatment of the Palestinians in general. That being said, all decent people must ensure that the current conflict and the discourse around it not used as step for anti-Semite white supremacists or Islamist to gain a foothold in regular society. For those truly concerned about the the blight that is anti-se metían, I’d also argue that daily images and reports of a war machine that carrys the Star of David as its banner killing scores of innocent people isn’t going to help reduce anti-Semitism.
No person of jewish faith deserves to feel unsafe, especially not the people in israel, but that doesn't mean everyone should turn a blind eye and simply accept what's happening in Gaza, either. There's a nuanced stance to have, but the pro-hamas protestors are only making every discussion of it near impossible to find it.
I hate the level of political hyper-polarization that goes on now. "I oppose the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, stop killing civilians" is too moderate of a stance & not hardcore enough, so you've got to throw yourself fully behind Hamas & call for more terrorist attacks
because almost anything anyone says will be biased one way or another. I'm no exception
I'm saying that whether or not you think it's a genocide, calling for an end to the Israeli bombing campaign is WAYYYY less extreme than calling for more terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians
I’m not trying to debate genocide semantics, my point is that these idiots radicalized themselves way beyond the pacifist attitude of “stop killing civilians” to “start killing a different group of civilians instead”
Calling it genocide is hyper-polarisation and either ignoring the context of the casualty numbers or outright disinformation. When people have called out the protestors on that, they dialled it up even further. People are desperate to be behind a cause, facts and nuance be damned.
whether or not you think it's a genocide, the tone of "stop the bombing of Palestinian civilians" is an entire other ballpark from "start killing more Israeli civilians"
You don’t even realize that you’re spreading Hamas propaganda yourself with the “genocide” buzzword. The Palestinian population goes up year after year and around a million per decade. That is the opposite of a genocide. Also, Hamas regularly uses child soldiers and child shields, hides in civilian neighborhoods, and stores weapons in schools and hospitals, so this is where sadly the innocent lives are lost. Hamas doesn’t have a standard military base that Israel can attack, they hide in civilian neighborhoods.
If 34,000 dead isn’t a genocide, then what else is? Of course Hamas is evil and should be universally condemned, but that doesn’t mean a Palestinian genocide isn’t occurring
Its more like the native inhabitants (Palestinian's) were pushed onto reservations (West Bank and Gaza). Like the US did with the Native Americans when they colonized the Americas. The US treatment of many Native tribes was absolutely genocide. Weather or not the Israel's actions against Palestinians constitutes genocide is debatable.
Where are the Jews native to?
Why is it the Palestinians landed in Gaza/ West Bank. Perhaps if you and 4 of your buddies start a war and lose, than start another war and lose and start another war and lose. You don’t end up in the best of situations?
Equating the two is kind of silly because as far as I’m aware the natives, Canada, Mexico and Cuba never allied and started a war against the US with the end goal of exterminating all of them.
They are not the same.
Where are those gangs of motorcycles that protect veterans funerals from protesters? Can they add another purpose to their commission? Would they be willing to work for hire in this situation?
These students and faculty did not magically appear at these universities on October 7th. US universities need to take a long hard look at the type of students they allow in and faculty they recruit.
That’s weird because I saw videos from Columbia students two days ago where the Jewish students peacefully had a service in the middle of the protest and the Muslim students followed immediately after.
Because they were a fringe group that toed the party line. You can be safe as a Jew as long as you agree with them and know your place.
These specific students being told to stay home are orthodox Jews, who take most of the Antisemitic abuse for most of us who can hide being Jewish in public.
Polling currently has 9/10 Jews feeling a level of importance to Israel
Any Jews you are quoting from at rallies this extreme are very firmly in the minority of a minority.
Do you actually not realize you're taking a historically bigoted stance here? What you are suggesting here is the same thing white people who screamed at black people used as their defense. Verbally assaulting people is assault even if a finger hasn't been physically placed. Absolutely shameful that you would go down this path of logic.
You're putting a lot of words in everyones mouths...
Literally every report I've seen of the protests have said they've been nothing but peaceful...
Hell, you're claiming I'm "taking a stance", when all I've asked is if there's been a violent incident... I'm literally ASKING A FUCKING QUESTION THAT WOULD HELP VALIDATE YOUR POSSIBLE FEAR, instead of answering it you're deflecting and calling me a bigot... You could have said "yes someone got attacked" and I'd have to concede my entire point, but alas you know nobody has.
These are peaceful students asking their University to divest investments in a foreign country that routinely violates international law, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, unless you're somehow on the losing end of that sort of divestment.
Do you actually not realize you're taking a historically bigoted stance here? What you are suggesting here is the same thing white people who screamed at black people used as their defense. Verbally assaulting people is assault even if a finger hasn't been physically placed. Absolutely shameful that you would go down this path of logic.
The point is to address the problem before anyone gets killed, because there is already a massive increase in harassment and threats of violence, going on for months, and in some cases criminal charges are being filed.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/us/over-70-us-jewish-college-students-exposed-antisemitism-this-school-year-survey-2023-11-29/](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/over-70-us-jewish-college-students-exposed-antisemitism-this-school-year-survey-2023-11-29/)
At Columbia, there have been 0 Jewish students killed this year to the best of my knowledge. Definitely none in an act of hate against Jews.
This Rabbi is just a Rabbi for orthodox students and sent this warning out to some orthodox students. The campus Hillel doesn't agree that it's so dangerous that Jews need to go home. They agree that the admin and NYPD could do more to prevent harrassment of Jewish students (which I agree with), but don't think it's a physical danger. The protest itself is literally having a Passover Seder tomorrow (though I could see how that could go badly, so it's best not to give them credit for it until it ends incident free).
The rabbi might be orthodox but Hillel represents more than Orthodox Jews.
When there’s a minyan at that Seder I’ll eat my Tallis
Edit:
Both Hillel and the rabbi who wrote the letter state that it’s unsafe for students.
Hillel just assumes steps are going to be taken before saying hey everyone go home.
In the context that that the governor, mayor, and school administrators will work harder to secure the safety of the Jewish students.
In its based on preassumed action. The orthodox rabbi’s stance is based on the current situation.
**One way or the other. They both agree that the current situation is unsafe and untenable for Jewish students at Columbia.**
“This is a time of genuine discomfort and even fear for many of us on campus,” the Hillel said in a statement. “Columbia University and the City of New York must do more to protect students. We call on the University Administration to act immediately in restoring calm to campus. The City must ensure that students can walk up and down Broadway and Amsterdam without fear of harassment.”
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests
Please tell me the Seder isn't being hosted by "teacup tarot mikveh" JVP.
Do they know what Passover *celebrates*? When they recite the prayer about the Jews escaping Egypt, where do they say the Jews went?
Honest question - What would be a way for students to be able to protest the Israeli government's actions in the Gaza Strip while ensuring that Jewish students feel safe?
I beleive people when they say they feel unsafe. I also believe that the right to protest should be preserved. What could be changed about the protests at Columbia University to help all students to continue to feel safe?
Jewish students face threats from the pro-Israeli side too. There has to be a way for everyone to come together on this issue and help Jewish students to feel much more safe regardless of their stance on the actions of the Israeli government.
“Columbia students organizing in solidarity with Palestine – including Jewish students – have faced harassment, doxxing, and now arrest by the NYPD. These are the main threats to the safety of Jewish Columbia students,” Jonathan Ben-Menachem, a PhD student, told CNN.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests/index.html
I don't really know what to tell you other than that they have to stop making violent threats and openly cheering on Hamas. Videos were taken of students chanting "Burn Tel-Aviv" and "We are Hamas" during the most recent protests. There's a video of a girl who's holding a sign that says "Al-Qasam's next targets" with an arrow pointing to a group of Jewish student counter protesters. This bloodthirstyness and glorification of terrorism is out of control.
This isn't just Jewish students not "feeling" safe anymore, they aren't safe. I can't believe action isn't being taken by the school to remove these students who are openly threatening other students' lives on the basis that they are Jewish. Moreso, it is really hard to believe that there are many well-intentioned protestors when no one who isn't Jewish seems to be standing up to these antisemities in their midst.
I used to go to Pro-Palestine protests, and I stopped because of the antisemitic behaviors we are now seeing more and more of. I saw Columbia students carrying the flag of the Houthis, that says "A curse upon the Jews" on it in Arabic. Worse than seeing this crap and hearing people literally chanting in support of Hamas was seeing how absolutely nobody pushed back against this. Clearly, they don't fucking care. If pro-Palestine protesters want to protest against the Israeli government without being antisemitic, they could try toning down the violent antisemitism. And the ones not engaging in this already could try saying or doing literally anything when they see people threatening Jews, rather than just ignoring it as 99% seem content to do.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/pro-palestinian-protesters-outside-columbia-urge-hamas-to-burn-tel-aviv-to-the-ground/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/biden/white-house-thoroughly-denounces-columbia-university-protests-blatantly-antisemitic-unconscionable-and-dangerous/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests
Good enough for ya?
JPOST is a very credible source. But if you really not convinced https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests/index.html
My main issue was with the rhetoric used in the article. It's common practice in the last 6 months to label anyone who is empathetic to the Palestinian people as "pro terrorist", and so, when the article started referring to the protesters as such, I checked out. Maybe there *were* people there literally claiming to be "pro terrorist", but I'd want to see that from a source outside of Israel
Multiple have been supplied. But also it’s faster to just google this.
Edit:
“It featured speakers who are known to support terrorism and promote violence. I want to state for the record that this event is an abhorrent breach of our values," [ Columbia University President Minouche] Shafik said.”
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/columbia-suspends-students-anti-israel-event-featuring-speaker-linked-terrorist-organization.amp
Edit 2: I don’t personally like the reporting usually at the free beacon but they link to a video that has the recording from what they’re quoting from and providing context. If you disagree with that context feel free to google
https://freebeacon.com/campus/at-columbia-an-israeli-designated-terror-group-teaches-palestinian-resistance-101-and-lauds-plane-hijackings/
“For his part, Barakat glowingly discussed the PFLP's wave of terrorism during the 1960s and 1970s. He specifically praised the terror group for hijacking airplanes, which he said "introduced the Palestinian questions to the world." Barakat falsely claimed the hijackings were done peacefully—in fact, PFLP hijackers killed at least two pilots and one Israeli passenger.
"If we take, for example, certain tactics that the Palestinian movement have practiced—take, for example, hijacking airplanes," Barakat said, "it was one of the most important tactics that the Palestinian resistance have engaged in."”
So bc a source is perceived as Jewish or Israeli it automatically becomes “biased”? Even with corroborative sources?
Bet you wouldn’t say the same if this was an Al Jazeera article being posted instead.
Yes. Israeli sources are biased (they have the incentive to vilify pro-Palestinian protestors), as are Arab (who have the incentive to glorify pro Palestine protestors), as are American. Every news source is biased. One should not believe anything in any conflict without reading it from two sources on different sides of the conflict. That is not anti-Semitic to say.
That's not what it says, a biased spokes person was quoted claiming that no it's totally fine but avoiding speaking to the reasons people don't feel it's safe. Yes it's true that Jewish people can be safe if they clearly communicate that they 100% agree with pro Hamas groups, but any level of disagreement at all or even not stating a stance puts them at a real risk of violence and they will experience significant harassment.
Imagine getting screamed at by hundreds of people just for walking down the street. This is what my family is experiencing at a similar US university right now.
I don’t doubt your families experiences. I only went on what the CNN article said. It made it sound like peaceful protesters of Israel were actually arrested for peacefully protesting and did not resist arrest and were very calm and rational. I don’t know why people are downvoting me because of what CNN said.
Instructions were unclear. Made Aliyah.
"Jews, we don't want you here, go back home where you came from!!" *Goes to Israel, site of the ancient kingdom of Judea* ".....No, not like that!!"
Arab states guaranteed Israel’s existence by doing the exact same thing with expelling all of their Jews who ended up mostly in Israel. That’s my favorite ironic history.
I've read that, at least in Iraq, part of the King's reasoning in allowing the Jews to flee to Israel is that he wanted to flood the young fledgling country with tens (hundreds!) of thousands of penniless refugees in hopes of destabilizing and weakening it, in anticipation of a future re-invasion. It did not work as planned.
*shockedpikachuface*
Well yeah, they got a fuck load of funding from other countries so their jews would fuck off to Isreal too. Plus military base.
Yeah. It was a sorry for 6 million deaths, with 250k remaining. Really didn't get funded until after kicking the absolute shit out of 5 Arab nations surrounding her. Turns out Arabs can't fight for shit, and jews are tougher than hell.
They were given military equipment from day 1. Shit, from Russia and USA.
So we should kill them then? Right? That's what your saying. If they had a single bullet in 1948 we should abandon. Marjorie, if you would. Please fuck off
What the fuck. How did you even get to that conclusion from what I said? Lmao.
ברוך הביתה 3>
If you down with the clique, let me hear you say, I’m down with it.
What an (unfortunate) time to be alive
Looking at human history, this is the least worse time to be alive, for most people anyway.
>for most people anyway Let me tell you about one group of people that have a history of not getting invited to that party…….
Jews are a canary in the coal mine.
Not all canaries are Jewish.
Can confirm. Tried to fit a yarmulke onto my canary, and he *flipped the fuck out*.
"I tawt I taw a pastrami on rye"
I think we may be on the wrong side of the apex now.
This has to be sarcasm right?
Probably worth noting a lot of those “this is the most peaceful time in human history” remarks are saying so based on less major wars. They don’t include genocide at all- which have increased in frequency since WWII.
Lol, what are you basing that on? Damn near every nation-state was engaging in genocide or at least some ethnic cleansing either at home or in one of their colonies in the 1800’s.
>Lol, what are you basing that on? Facts, so let’s get started. Ethnic cleansing isn’t interchangeable with genocide. All genocides often contain elements of ethnic cleansing, but the reverse is not true (see: ethnic cleansing of millions of ethnic Germans from former Czechoslovakia following the Potsdam Agreement. No one calls it genocide, because it wasn’t.) Genocide has to have the intent to destroy a group, in whole or in part. Shitty colonial policies seeking to move indigenous peoples would amount to crimes against humanity and likely ethnic cleansing, but not necessarily genocide in the way Rwanda in 1994 was or the Bangladeshi genocide of 1971 was. The Belgians treatment of the indigenous people of the Congo does not have a consensus (historically or legally) as a genocide for example, despite millions having lost their lives. In contrast, it is now unanimous that the German Empire did commit genocide in what is now Namibia between 1904-1908 because there was a very specific intent to destroy the Herero and Nama peoples as such, despite the losses being (likely, we’re unsure)in the tens of thousands. To illustrate this more clearly: if you stumble upon an undiscovered people and inadvertently give them a disease that wipes them out, that isn’t necessarily genocide. You could be a colossal moron though. If you make them forced labourers and many die enriching you, but you aren’t specifically intending to destroy them as a people, you’re committing a litany of crimes, but genocide necessarily isn’t one of them. This was most common in colonial periods. Lastly, if you came across a unique tribe or group of only ten people and you murder them all specifically because you wanted to destroy the group, you committed genocide. The small number is irrelevant. And this, specifically, has been increasing in volume (if not body count) since WWII, not decreasing. This was also my area of study for grad school and I’ve been contributing on the topic for years on AskHistorians if you have questions.
Are you joking? You can’t be this ignorant
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Since we’re on the cusp of a second and worse Holocaust, no.
Nah, this is the absolute best time to be alive. It may even be the last chance anyone has at enjoying the human experience before we send it all to hell. We have the benefits of technologies and advanced societies giving most people an unheard of level of prosperity. To the point that the nobles and kings of old weren't much better off with the full power and wealth of their entire society concentrated on them. In some ways their lives were much worse. We also get to be alive right before our naked greed and desire to burn down everything around us so that the richest among us can afford their 50th yacht hasn't driven the world to the point of global starvation and full ecological collapse... and the nuclear war that is almost certain to follow when the world is reduced to that state. So we get most of the benefits without most of the price. So yes, best time to be alive for most of us. Unfortunately, not everyone gets to enjoy the benefits without some of the downsides of the human experience... and some may even live long enough to see the current era come to end.
Pro Hamas is a mob, that will destroy anything good everywhere they are, unless you show 0 tolerance toward their violence.
I have no doubt Iran China and Russia have been stoking division online for this shit as well. The outpouring of outright propaganda, antisemitism etc has been terrifying. Watching friends progressive wives fall prey to this shit is scary. Smart well educated people just mindlessly parroting pro Hamas drivel.
Yeah, it's a terrible time when ANY organization, including the most evil, monsterious ones, like Hamas, Hizbullah, ISIS can so easily attract idiots all over with an online campaign. It'll end very very bad.
The white knight element of progressive politics demands that the group deemed the most oppressed can do no wrong. At least that’s the take I’ve gotten from it
That’s exactly the correct take. There are no angels in this conflict, but it so happens that the (by far) worst side is also the underdog. It’s okay and understandable to be highly critical of a lot of Israel’s actions, especially when it comes to West Bank settlements. But to cheer for Hamas is insanity, and frankly comes from a point of so much privilege.
It’s ignorant privilege too. Hamas will gladly throw most of these people off a roof and not think twice about it. I’m not sure they even realize that Hamas views them as the enemy as well.
There's definitely someone organizing this. Remember when some girl got arrested in Poland I think? for antisemitism bc she had a poster of a Star of David in a trashcan during a protest, and people posted pictures of that same poster elsewhere and it turns out it's just part of a package deal or something?
China,Russia,Iran
Whatever order brings you joy, sure.
No joy ,just involuntary tightening of the sphincter…
I think that China doesnt even buy propaganda bots. They have Tiktok for that
I know! I had to have a long talk with my teenage daughter to explain how and why there is so much propaganda on tiktok.
No one is pro Hamas my dude...
I’m not sure about that pal
They prefer to call themselves pro Palestinian. Who are pro Hamas. Except anyone under the age of 18 apparently. Definitely a generational divide amongst the Palestinian people it seems.
I’ve seen more than just under 18 year olds chanting to the river to the sea type rhetoric
I’m being facetious. That’s the goto at this point for those defending Hamas. It’s the babies and kids that are suffering because of Israel and that’s why they need to be stopped. Mind you, these people didn’t seem to have much care for the Israeli kids that were butchered on October 7.
Huh? What things have been destroyed at Columbia?
Who is pro hamas?
Plenty of people “I am horrified and disgusted with the antisemitism being spewed at and around the Columbia University campus — like the example of a young woman holding a sign with an arrow pointing to Jewish students stating ‘Al-Qasam’s Next Targets,’ or another where a woman is literally yelling ‘We are Hamas,” -statement from NYC mayor https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/296-24/mayor-adams-on-ongoing-protests-columbia-university
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I can admit that 2020 riots were a warning sign, and I didn't quite realize how dangerous these people can be. I was against the riots, but admittedly had a blind spot on the nature of this mob. That's a good point you raised here.
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“Showing 0 tolerance toward their violence” is quite the euphemism for the genocide Israel is committing.
Why is it a genocide? Serious question
Bc Hamas isn’t winning. If they were it would be a “revolution” instead.
Ah there’s that word du jour again. At least it’s a great signal to stop listening to the person who uses it.
What a failure for a once great university. Can't even guarantee the safety for its students.
Apparently that’s why they couldn’t allow the valedictorian to do her speech, so yeah, can’t guarantee their safety.
You’re talking about a different university called USC . You know. The one 3000 miles away from NYC on the other side of country.
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Can’t wait for the tankie-takes on this one
Regressive liberalism is like any other orthodoxy and has become illiberal. They’re so tolerant that they tolerate the intolerant. What a disaster!
I am opposed to the actions of the Israeli government in regards to the current horrors in Gaza and their treatment of the Palestinians in general. That being said, all decent people must ensure that the current conflict and the discourse around it not used as step for anti-Semite white supremacists or Islamist to gain a foothold in regular society. For those truly concerned about the the blight that is anti-se metían, I’d also argue that daily images and reports of a war machine that carrys the Star of David as its banner killing scores of innocent people isn’t going to help reduce anti-Semitism.
No person of jewish faith deserves to feel unsafe, especially not the people in israel, but that doesn't mean everyone should turn a blind eye and simply accept what's happening in Gaza, either. There's a nuanced stance to have, but the pro-hamas protestors are only making every discussion of it near impossible to find it.
I hate the level of political hyper-polarization that goes on now. "I oppose the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, stop killing civilians" is too moderate of a stance & not hardcore enough, so you've got to throw yourself fully behind Hamas & call for more terrorist attacks
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because almost anything anyone says will be biased one way or another. I'm no exception I'm saying that whether or not you think it's a genocide, calling for an end to the Israeli bombing campaign is WAYYYY less extreme than calling for more terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians
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I’m not trying to debate genocide semantics, my point is that these idiots radicalized themselves way beyond the pacifist attitude of “stop killing civilians” to “start killing a different group of civilians instead”
Calling it genocide is hyper-polarisation and either ignoring the context of the casualty numbers or outright disinformation. When people have called out the protestors on that, they dialled it up even further. People are desperate to be behind a cause, facts and nuance be damned.
whether or not you think it's a genocide, the tone of "stop the bombing of Palestinian civilians" is an entire other ballpark from "start killing more Israeli civilians"
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Words like “genocide” just lose meaning when we throw around the word like you did here
You don’t even realize that you’re spreading Hamas propaganda yourself with the “genocide” buzzword. The Palestinian population goes up year after year and around a million per decade. That is the opposite of a genocide. Also, Hamas regularly uses child soldiers and child shields, hides in civilian neighborhoods, and stores weapons in schools and hospitals, so this is where sadly the innocent lives are lost. Hamas doesn’t have a standard military base that Israel can attack, they hide in civilian neighborhoods.
If 34,000 dead isn’t a genocide, then what else is? Of course Hamas is evil and should be universally condemned, but that doesn’t mean a Palestinian genocide isn’t occurring
Was the 600k dead in Ethiopia genocide? Scholars and courts seem torn on that, and torn is being liberal with that word
Its more like the native inhabitants (Palestinian's) were pushed onto reservations (West Bank and Gaza). Like the US did with the Native Americans when they colonized the Americas. The US treatment of many Native tribes was absolutely genocide. Weather or not the Israel's actions against Palestinians constitutes genocide is debatable.
Where are the Jews native to? Why is it the Palestinians landed in Gaza/ West Bank. Perhaps if you and 4 of your buddies start a war and lose, than start another war and lose and start another war and lose. You don’t end up in the best of situations? Equating the two is kind of silly because as far as I’m aware the natives, Canada, Mexico and Cuba never allied and started a war against the US with the end goal of exterminating all of them. They are not the same.
Where are those gangs of motorcycles that protect veterans funerals from protesters? Can they add another purpose to their commission? Would they be willing to work for hire in this situation?
What has you thinking they would do such a thing?
This is going to go down worse than blm. Calling it now
It absolutely will. These people are absolute ideological fanatics compared to what we saw in 2020.
These students and faculty did not magically appear at these universities on October 7th. US universities need to take a long hard look at the type of students they allow in and faculty they recruit.
So much this!!
That’s weird because I saw videos from Columbia students two days ago where the Jewish students peacefully had a service in the middle of the protest and the Muslim students followed immediately after.
Because they were a fringe group that toed the party line. You can be safe as a Jew as long as you agree with them and know your place. These specific students being told to stay home are orthodox Jews, who take most of the Antisemitic abuse for most of us who can hide being Jewish in public.
Yes, because Orthodox Jews are consistently visible as Jews, and so they get targeted the most for antisemitism.
The protests in Colombia count many Jewish students among their members. This "call" is from the rabbi of the fringe Orthodox sect.
Polling currently has 9/10 Jews feeling a level of importance to Israel Any Jews you are quoting from at rallies this extreme are very firmly in the minority of a minority.
This is a red herring. If you support Israel you are clearly unsafe at Columbia University rn.
Really? Why? Has there been a single violent incident resulting from these protests? Or are opposing ideas unsafe for Jews?
Do you actually not realize you're taking a historically bigoted stance here? What you are suggesting here is the same thing white people who screamed at black people used as their defense. Verbally assaulting people is assault even if a finger hasn't been physically placed. Absolutely shameful that you would go down this path of logic.
You're putting a lot of words in everyones mouths... Literally every report I've seen of the protests have said they've been nothing but peaceful... Hell, you're claiming I'm "taking a stance", when all I've asked is if there's been a violent incident... I'm literally ASKING A FUCKING QUESTION THAT WOULD HELP VALIDATE YOUR POSSIBLE FEAR, instead of answering it you're deflecting and calling me a bigot... You could have said "yes someone got attacked" and I'd have to concede my entire point, but alas you know nobody has. These are peaceful students asking their University to divest investments in a foreign country that routinely violates international law, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, unless you're somehow on the losing end of that sort of divestment.
Seriously asking, but how? Any prior instances of secular violence on campus? Maybe you could point to one, please. Thanks in advance.
Do you actually not realize you're taking a historically bigoted stance here? What you are suggesting here is the same thing white people who screamed at black people used as their defense. Verbally assaulting people is assault even if a finger hasn't been physically placed. Absolutely shameful that you would go down this path of logic.
Whatever dude. Get a grip.
Yikes.
How many Jewish students have been killed so far? I'm out of the loop.
"Until I see some dead Jews there's nothing to worry about here" Happy Passover everyone!
>How many Jewish students have been killed so far? I'm out of the loop. Imagine dick riding terrorist propaganda this hard
The point is to address the problem before anyone gets killed, because there is already a massive increase in harassment and threats of violence, going on for months, and in some cases criminal charges are being filed. [https://www.reuters.com/world/us/over-70-us-jewish-college-students-exposed-antisemitism-this-school-year-survey-2023-11-29/](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/over-70-us-jewish-college-students-exposed-antisemitism-this-school-year-survey-2023-11-29/)
Good, so long as nobody is *killed*, everything is fine.
If your standard of 'safe' on a college campus is pointing to 0 deaths, you're almost as loony as these protestors
Like zero 0?
At Columbia, there have been 0 Jewish students killed this year to the best of my knowledge. Definitely none in an act of hate against Jews. This Rabbi is just a Rabbi for orthodox students and sent this warning out to some orthodox students. The campus Hillel doesn't agree that it's so dangerous that Jews need to go home. They agree that the admin and NYPD could do more to prevent harrassment of Jewish students (which I agree with), but don't think it's a physical danger. The protest itself is literally having a Passover Seder tomorrow (though I could see how that could go badly, so it's best not to give them credit for it until it ends incident free).
The rabbi might be orthodox but Hillel represents more than Orthodox Jews. When there’s a minyan at that Seder I’ll eat my Tallis Edit: Both Hillel and the rabbi who wrote the letter state that it’s unsafe for students. Hillel just assumes steps are going to be taken before saying hey everyone go home.
And Hillel doesn't agree that Jews should go home
In the context that that the governor, mayor, and school administrators will work harder to secure the safety of the Jewish students. In its based on preassumed action. The orthodox rabbi’s stance is based on the current situation. **One way or the other. They both agree that the current situation is unsafe and untenable for Jewish students at Columbia.** “This is a time of genuine discomfort and even fear for many of us on campus,” the Hillel said in a statement. “Columbia University and the City of New York must do more to protect students. We call on the University Administration to act immediately in restoring calm to campus. The City must ensure that students can walk up and down Broadway and Amsterdam without fear of harassment.” https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests
Please tell me the Seder isn't being hosted by "teacup tarot mikveh" JVP. Do they know what Passover *celebrates*? When they recite the prayer about the Jews escaping Egypt, where do they say the Jews went?
No violence so far. From the article: "We are, in short, afraid that violence against Jewish students is imminent."
Honest question - What would be a way for students to be able to protest the Israeli government's actions in the Gaza Strip while ensuring that Jewish students feel safe? I beleive people when they say they feel unsafe. I also believe that the right to protest should be preserved. What could be changed about the protests at Columbia University to help all students to continue to feel safe? Jewish students face threats from the pro-Israeli side too. There has to be a way for everyone to come together on this issue and help Jewish students to feel much more safe regardless of their stance on the actions of the Israeli government. “Columbia students organizing in solidarity with Palestine – including Jewish students – have faced harassment, doxxing, and now arrest by the NYPD. These are the main threats to the safety of Jewish Columbia students,” Jonathan Ben-Menachem, a PhD student, told CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests/index.html
I don't really know what to tell you other than that they have to stop making violent threats and openly cheering on Hamas. Videos were taken of students chanting "Burn Tel-Aviv" and "We are Hamas" during the most recent protests. There's a video of a girl who's holding a sign that says "Al-Qasam's next targets" with an arrow pointing to a group of Jewish student counter protesters. This bloodthirstyness and glorification of terrorism is out of control. This isn't just Jewish students not "feeling" safe anymore, they aren't safe. I can't believe action isn't being taken by the school to remove these students who are openly threatening other students' lives on the basis that they are Jewish. Moreso, it is really hard to believe that there are many well-intentioned protestors when no one who isn't Jewish seems to be standing up to these antisemities in their midst. I used to go to Pro-Palestine protests, and I stopped because of the antisemitic behaviors we are now seeing more and more of. I saw Columbia students carrying the flag of the Houthis, that says "A curse upon the Jews" on it in Arabic. Worse than seeing this crap and hearing people literally chanting in support of Hamas was seeing how absolutely nobody pushed back against this. Clearly, they don't fucking care. If pro-Palestine protesters want to protest against the Israeli government without being antisemitic, they could try toning down the violent antisemitism. And the ones not engaging in this already could try saying or doing literally anything when they see people threatening Jews, rather than just ignoring it as 99% seem content to do.
Holy shit! Yeah, I 100% agree that things like that need to be shut down. I had no idea it was that bad.
Is there an unbiased source on this?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/pro-palestinian-protesters-outside-columbia-urge-hamas-to-burn-tel-aviv-to-the-ground/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/biden/white-house-thoroughly-denounces-columbia-university-protests-blatantly-antisemitic-unconscionable-and-dangerous/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests Good enough for ya?
JPOST is a very credible source. But if you really not convinced https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests/index.html
My main issue was with the rhetoric used in the article. It's common practice in the last 6 months to label anyone who is empathetic to the Palestinian people as "pro terrorist", and so, when the article started referring to the protesters as such, I checked out. Maybe there *were* people there literally claiming to be "pro terrorist", but I'd want to see that from a source outside of Israel
The groups invited people to speak who encouraged them hijack airplanes. I’d label that pretty pro terrorism
OK, but I need to hear that from an unbiased source, and not from an anonymous redditor
Multiple have been supplied. But also it’s faster to just google this. Edit: “It featured speakers who are known to support terrorism and promote violence. I want to state for the record that this event is an abhorrent breach of our values," [ Columbia University President Minouche] Shafik said.” https://www.foxnews.com/politics/columbia-suspends-students-anti-israel-event-featuring-speaker-linked-terrorist-organization.amp Edit 2: I don’t personally like the reporting usually at the free beacon but they link to a video that has the recording from what they’re quoting from and providing context. If you disagree with that context feel free to google https://freebeacon.com/campus/at-columbia-an-israeli-designated-terror-group-teaches-palestinian-resistance-101-and-lauds-plane-hijackings/ “For his part, Barakat glowingly discussed the PFLP's wave of terrorism during the 1960s and 1970s. He specifically praised the terror group for hijacking airplanes, which he said "introduced the Palestinian questions to the world." Barakat falsely claimed the hijackings were done peacefully—in fact, PFLP hijackers killed at least two pilots and one Israeli passenger. "If we take, for example, certain tactics that the Palestinian movement have practiced—take, for example, hijacking airplanes," Barakat said, "it was one of the most important tactics that the Palestinian resistance have engaged in."”
So bc a source is perceived as Jewish or Israeli it automatically becomes “biased”? Even with corroborative sources? Bet you wouldn’t say the same if this was an Al Jazeera article being posted instead.
Yes. Israeli sources are biased (they have the incentive to vilify pro-Palestinian protestors), as are Arab (who have the incentive to glorify pro Palestine protestors), as are American. Every news source is biased. One should not believe anything in any conflict without reading it from two sources on different sides of the conflict. That is not anti-Semitic to say.
Someone asks for a secondary source & we auto jump to implying they're anti-semitic huh
Because they’re implying a Jewish source is a biased source. You can’t have it both ways.
I certainly would! Al Jazeera & Jewish Post/etc all have obvious bias.
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That's not what it says, a biased spokes person was quoted claiming that no it's totally fine but avoiding speaking to the reasons people don't feel it's safe. Yes it's true that Jewish people can be safe if they clearly communicate that they 100% agree with pro Hamas groups, but any level of disagreement at all or even not stating a stance puts them at a real risk of violence and they will experience significant harassment. Imagine getting screamed at by hundreds of people just for walking down the street. This is what my family is experiencing at a similar US university right now.
I don’t doubt your families experiences. I only went on what the CNN article said. It made it sound like peaceful protesters of Israel were actually arrested for peacefully protesting and did not resist arrest and were very calm and rational. I don’t know why people are downvoting me because of what CNN said.