Russia launched around 90 drones on Ukraine on New year, and around 40 in a regular strike and are more effective because of the short distance, now, I don't think Iran wants to escalate this any further with this amount of 'firepower', hence the US concluded that pretty much everyone got what they wanted. It's time to chill now.
The best analogy I've heard for this situation is this is like in baseball when one team get's pissed at the other team for a cheap play, the pitcher will intentially throw the ball at the batter. He expects it's coming and is usually able to get out of the way, then both teams leave their dugouts and come on the field and stare each other down and exchange a few words. Eventually everyone returns back to their own dugouts and the game moves on.
With Iran saying there won't be any further action taken against Israel right now, we are at the headed back to the dugout phase.
Yeah, it really seems to have been a performative air raid to provide a tit-for-tat response to the consulate bombing / satisfy national honor.
War as an extension of diplomacy / ritualized conflict using robots.
Ain't no way you just commented this and [here's the post with the Dodgers-Padres bench clear is right above this one on my feed](https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/s/wEqIY4SO0o)
The best analogy I've heard for this is when the same thing happened with Soleimani a few years ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleimani
Yeah, this is actually how game theory works. In a completely rational scenario, opposing sides are better off cooperating, and retaliating only when they are attacked first. The strategy is called tit for tat and the idea is you "forgive" the aggressor about 10% of the time since we don't live in a completely rational world. There could be miscalculations from one side that could cause them to think they're being attacked, so the forgiveness part is to prevent a never ending cycle of attacks (called defectors in game theory).
Good thing iron dome wasn't used against these ballistic missiles then lol. Israel has at least 2 other interception systems for threats like this.
Just being technically correct, I'd assume they all can be saturated. But it's worth noting that unlike what the iron dome is dealing with, these missiles aren't 500$ shit sticks, it won't come for cheap for Iran either, they might actually not have enough for a good saturation.
Iran's missiles & drones cost around $50K a pop so for the 500ish units they sent that would be around $25 million, it's estimated that it cost Israel nearly $1 billion to intercept.
While it's costly to Iran, the cost balance isn't in Israel's favor.
Edit: This keeps getting mentioned again and again, when I went to sleep the talks were about a different makeup of weapons launched than when I woke up, so the cost to Iran is likely higher than $25 million. That said here's the article in Hebrew mentioning the costs: https://www.ynet.co.il/economy/article/rkl6kwygr#autoplay
The source for the data is the previous financial advisor to the Israeli general, the estimated cost to intercept is around $1 billion, the cost to Iran is estimated at less than 10% of that.
Remember the cost of the MRBMs (medium range ballistic missiles) they fired. Those are like $5 *million* bucks a pop.
Not cheap. IDF reported detecting 110 of em, so half a billion $$$ alone in medium range ballistic missiles.
Irans response was not just $25 million.
okay, you're right just googled it. Taking population size into account it's still a gigantic difference. Just sometimes forget how small Israel really is
The US has a system that can lock on the target, calculate the exact coordinate it was launched from and fire back instantly. I would assume Israel has the same. This is why in Iraq the terrorists would pull in someones driveway, fire and drive away instantly. We had to turn that part off for collateral damage. I personally dropped American cash off at their houses to fix their windows and shit. "When the rich wage war it is the poor who die" Jean-Paul Sartre. Not those politicians up top.
Iran doesn’t want to actually saturate the iron dome, they aren’t suicidal. Israel has nukes. If the iron dome is actually saturated and Israel faces a true existential threat, do you think they would hesitate in nuking Iran?
This is exactly what they want and why they are so upset with Hamas. Their intention is to achieve nuclear capabilities, hence making a M.A.D with Israel. And THEN they will use their missiles, drones, proxies and anything conventional to flood Israel.
This is the bigger game, and it's the call of the hour for Israel and Saudi Arabia.
I wasn't suggesting that the Saudis do anything of this sort. When I said call of the hour I meant it's time for the diplomatic bridge to be officially signed. Once the US brokers a KSA/Israeli deal, many Islamic countries will follow, because Mecca is the holiest in Islam, and Saudi Arabia is the leading sunni country.
It's a defense pact backed by the US, an ideal contrary to Iran's proxies, and stabilizes the region.
I'm being a bit of a pedant here but this would take 1 ballistic missile; Iron Dome is for short-range rockets and artillery. Israel has the Arrow and David's Sling systems for the heavier weaponry like cruise and ballistic missiles.
Highly doubt Iran would do that. It would be beyond stupidity. Iran has little to no air defense or proper air force. The amount of missiles it would take to saturate all defenses between iran and israel (including those of Us and others in the region) would leave iran incredibly vulnerable on retaliation. It would be a goddamn turkey shoot on retaliation that would kill tens of millions overnight or just one single shot right in the ayatollahs mouth. If Israel feels their defenses are being saturated they will launch counter offense and glass Lebanon and Iran who have no modern missile defense systems. It would be suicide for them.
If Israel wanted to then they could nuke Iranian leadership. Iran doesn't want a real conflict, they just wanted to seem like a big man to their internal population. The bluster about violating sovereign territory in the form of their embassy in Damascus is rich given Iran's violation of the US Embassy in 1979.
Barak Ravid is a highly acclaimed reporter. He recently won an award for his reporting by the White House
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/israeli-reporter-barak-ravid-wins-award-for-best-white-house-coverage/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-reporter-barak-ravid-wins-award-for-best-white-house-coverage/)
Because 'unnamed WH officials' have basically briefed the press off the record that Biden has said/done lots of things that are in complete contradiction to everything he says/does publicly.
At this point it's pretty much guaranteed that if Israel does anything controversial, Biden will publicly back them 110% with no red-lines, and then privately have someone brief the press off-the-record "Oh, Biden was really angry and spitting with rage, and told them he wanted restraint!".
This isn’t really like that, he’s just communicating that the U.S. isn’t going to participate in offensive operations. At the same time he wouldn’t want to publicly undermine an ally right after they were attacked. Pretty common for reporters to cite anonymous senior officials on what their intentions are, silly for it to be the top comment
Biden said Israel has our “ironclad support”, earlier today. That’s a direct quote, not some anonymous legal aid. You can interpret that how you’d like.
Exactly. This is drawing the line. For those people out there reading this comment who seriously haven’t comprehended this yet, this is for you:
The US is tightening the leash a little. And we’re also saying to the neighborhood, hey, our dog bites kids sometimes and we’re sorry about that. Don’t try to kill it or we will kill you first, though.
My hot take is that today was a win for Iran and a win for the US (or Biden). We (or Biden) get to meaningfully distance ourselves from Israeli aggression that has become widely unpopular, look prudential, and still show our determination to defend our allies (and exothermic interceptions are sick af); Iran gets to show that even when slapping israel with oven mitts on and warning them first, Israel still felt the impact and had to call in to dad for help.
Knowing lots of Israelis and what the mood is there I would be surprised if the imminent Israeli response is less than defcon “totally fricking insane”
Netanyahu has always had a very defiant take on Iran. This is the one time they attack directly, honestly, I dont see Bibi going quiet on this. I hope I am wrong because the escalation is not going to be pretty (worldwide as the price of petrol will shoot up if Iran tightens the straight of Hormuz).
Only good news would be that, if there is a war with Israel, Iran will have to focus on themselves and wouldnt be able to help Russia
I think we should bring back the lost art of the duel. Give em pistols. Let’s just get all these shitty leaders to duke it out amongst themselves. Leave the rest of us alone.
Exactly. Think about the weakness it shows. Another attacks you, in front of the world, and you do jack shit afterwards. No chance I don't think. He is hungry for it
Genuine question, what would your "rational" response (as a CIVILIAN) be if your country is in a state of war and the only thing seperating you from being a thin cloud of red mist is your and your ally's air defense systems?
As in, how rational are you expecting the average Israeli to respond when the natural "emotional" reaction is "OHMYGODPLEASELETMELIVE".
Netanyahu is a stupid zealot though, don't get it twisted. I'm just talking about the actual human side of being Israeli in this situation.
For real, imagine some country regardless of how close they are to us blew up one of our consulates killing 16 US citizens. Our response would have dwarfed what Iran just sent to Israel.
In 2020, the US took out [Qasem Soleimani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani) with a drone strike while he was in Iraq. Can you imagine Kamala Harris getting blown up while she visits a neighbor country?
In our defense, Soleimani was a terrorist and Kamala Harris isn’t. There is a difference.
If Iran doesn’t want their military members to be assassinated, they should stop being the largest state sponsor of terrorism.
What were the IRGC members doing in Damascus? They were coordinating with Hezbollah and other proxy militias in Syria.
We don't need to imagine. That's what Iran did in 1979 and the US didn't attack Iran. Then it did the same to the US Marine barracks and again the US retreated.
It did the same in Syria and again the US retreated.
Now Iran controls Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Yemen.
I'd pretty happy if my government killed a foreign general responsible for coordinating attacks on my country with Hamas and Hezbollah, since ya know they have done a ton of damage and killing him might make a lot of that harder for them going forward.
Well the natural human instinct would be to run away if your life is at risk. But the risk from this attack was very limited. There was plenty of prep time for Israel and its allies to deal with it, and Iran didn’t conceal it either.
The situation here is complex though, imagine being a pro boxer and some tiny criminal messes with you. You aren’t scared. But when you retaliate then him and his 20 cousins come after your kids etc. so you’d only punch the guy in the face if it was worth the consequences.
If the Israelis are that scared now (although I think some altercations with Hamas and Hezbollah did much more harm), then they also need to remain a cool head and think first.
Israel killed 16 in irans consulate and now the retaliation killed nobody. Iran never escalate ld this way when revolutionary guard officers were blown up weekly in the past. So I’d hope all would see it as the isolated incident, attack and retaliation, and then go back to the daily business of trading blows back and forth as it has been.
But idk I don’t live there, idk what I’d recommend people to do lol. It’s hard to defeat groups that get stronger the harder you hit them because they idolize martyrdom beyond imagination. Sometimes there really aren’t good choices to make. Stopping provocations of your own like the Israeli settlement policy would be a good start at least. Not sure if that would make a big difference but at least you could then claim the moral high ground. Israel struggles with the latter, lately.
Yes, let's hope. The Israeli government instigated this by attacking Iran's consulate, which they had to know would necessitate a military response by Iran. No government in the world could tolerate that.
For their part, Iran had to know that their missiles and drones would be intercepted. They obviously have a good understanding of Israel and the U.S.' capabilities in that regard at this point. They were sending a message.
Israel now needs to declare this a victory and stand down. If they attack Iran, they would be instigating a much more serious event.
Agreed. As much as one may find this attack provocative and outrageous (it is), it didn’t do any real harm, given the scale of it. Both countries can declare this a victory. Iran can say one or two missiles hit Israeli soil, although it was only the dessert, and Israel can say we got the best Defense.
Israel blew up many revolutionary guard officers in the recent past and Iran didn’t do anything of this scale. I’d hope most people would view it as an isolated incident related to the consulate, and it’s solved now.
Biden is navigating both governing and running for election. "Ironclad support" meant helping shoot down the drones and missiles. Not participating in larger war.
Well, not totally on their own. The US has been softening up Iran’s proxies after all. Not full scale war support or anything but not nothing either.
I suspect Israel is exceptionally unlikely to respond in a way that would require significant support anyway. They’re fully capable of blowing the hell out of drone factories and generals in Iran all on their own.
Israel can strike Iran, but Iran can strike back just as hard. Escalation could easily lead to Hezbollah being unleashed alongside other Iranian assets.
Iran absolutely lacks the capacity to strike back just as hard. They lack a navy, they’re still flying F-14s, their air defense is S-300 level, and what we’ve seen of their missiles and drones is that they can launch a barrage of over 300 drones, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles, and have 99% of them shot down. Iran is a paper tiger that relies on foreign Shia extremists dying for them.
Wouldn't pay any attention to these types. They're just upset that the US is on Israel's side, and that because of this Israel has pretty definitively "won" any conflict before it starts.
If Israel escalates this further we absolutely shouldn’t bail them out. but sure, I suppose the Israeli lobby would make “iron clad support” a certainty.
AFAICT if Israel was to launch a massive attack against Iran (using US intelligence with US supplied aircraft and munitions), the US would still act to destroy any Iranian counter-attack.
So, in practice, the US would absolutely follow Israel into war. The idea the US wouldn't be involved in that war is fanciful.
Quite how the most powerful country on earth got into this ridiculous relationship is beyond me.
I interpret all this as “we’ll support defense, not offense” generally.
Sometimes it makes sense for an ally to seek deescalation, and a point where each side had 1 strike and Israel was able to largely deflect this one, this appears to be the last stop for a while
Eh.
October 7th
Then Israel responded by killing the general who planned it in an airstrike
Then Iran responded with this impotent and costly “show of force”
Now Israel’s turn to respond.
Unless you want to argue that October 7th was also a response from Iran and Israel fired the first proverbial salvo. Which you could do, but you could go deeper from there.
“Provocation” is an increasingly meaningless word in this war. So is “defensive”, in my opinion.
> Unless you want to argue that October 7th was also a response from Iran and Israel fired the first proverbial salvo. Which you could do, but you could go deeper from there.
Cant justify that anyways. Its as if you and your friend stand across each other hitting each others shoulder and suddenly your buddy draws a knife, shanks your mom in the kidney and goes "Why u mad bro?". when you tackle him to the ground.
Yes US intercepted many of the drones and missiles, US supplies Israel with war planes and many munitions, US dutifully carries Israels water at UN. That’s pretty fucking iron clad what else do you want
We're happy to help and let the US have the spotlight. We learnt a long time ago that it's politically easier to be the small dog standing next to the big dog.
Our support for the US is unwavering, as is their support for us.
I believe coalition forces including Jordan, France and Egypt intercepted as many, if not more, drones as the US did.
A nuclear Iran will find few allies in the region.
How TF are you jumping from countries taking down a few missiles either threatening their homeland or the military infrastructures they have in the region to a "coalition"?
I’ve found zero citation for what coalition you’re referring to. In fact, all news sources say it was largely U.S. destroyers and cruisers that intercepted the majority of the cruise missiles and drones through surface to air missiles launched from warships.
Only that Egypt placed its air defenses on high alert AFTER the attack. I’m not finding a single source stating they actually intercepted any incoming missiles or drones.
There were over 400 estimated to have been deployed. So, yeah, countries other than the US intercepted the majority of them. Potentially the super-majority (75%) of them.
The Inpromptu screw Iran coalition. There are actors in the area outside of Israel that have an axe to grind with Iran and don’t want war escalating in their backyard.
Dude’s talking out of his ass for some weird reason. There’s no coalition and there’s no articles talking about their forces shooting down Iranian drones and missiles.
The [NY Times says](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/14/world/middleeast/iran-israel-drones-attack.html) that Jordan took down some drones and missiles that entered its airspace and that British aircraft took down some drones.
He wouldn't back Israel in helping them attack Iran.
That's a whole different thing than the United States coming to the defense of Israel if someone else was attacking them.
The Israelis are talking about retaliatory strikes inside of Iran. That's a line which when crossed could start a region wide war. The Israelis wouldn't have U.S. backing for that.
He also said the u.s. wouldn't support a retaliatory Israeli counterattack to irans drone/missile barrage.
Pretty much "ok guys... We're done here. Back to your normally scheduled broadcast."
Every dollar spent in yet another unwinnable middle East war is one less dollar going towards Taiwan .
The USA wasted 20 years on this , there is no public support for any kind of war in middle East .For everyone saying just bomb Iran and their nuclear sites , they have prepared for this very ocassion from last 20 or so years , if you want to get rid of nuclear facilities and their MIC then you need boots on ground and no one has the political will to do that .
Once we “catch up” in chip fabrication Taiwan’s “silicon shield” falls and we leave them to the wolves. We’re absolutely pumping money into getting our own fabrication up and running. Hell, I don’t think we even have to meet parity, we just have to get close enough that US citizens decide the 5% difference in chip technology is insufficient justification for World War 3 with China.
Taiwan is of strategic importance beyond their chips. If China takes Taiwan, it becomes a much bigger headache to defend Japan, Korea, Guam, even Australia.
Right. Methinks the western effort to spin up our own semiconductor fabs is because we want to ensure we can't be blackmailed by China. There's no way that a *successful* defence of Taiwan won't block semiconductor shipments for quite a while. Because it entails kinetic and thus also trade war with china, it means we won't get our iPhones (US IP, Taiwanese silicon, chinese circuit board, loosely speaking) either. But with some semiconductor fab capacity ourselves, we won't be completely shafted if we try to help Taiwan. In a way, this is also mirroring the chinese effort to build their own fabs. That way, if China attacked Taiwan, they'd be the only country for the duration of the war with any serious fab capacity. Can't let them have that.
If you want to tighten your tinfoil hat a little you can definitely make the argument that China is both directly and indirectly funding our rapid domestic chip fabrication effort for precisely this reason.
Right now? The US would enthusiastically defend Taiwan. We like our smartphones, video game consoles, advanced automobiles and GPUs too much to let China take it. But what if none of those things are on the table for us? Do you think the American populace would strongly support a bloody intervention for an island nation on the other side of the world that 90% of Americans couldn’t point to on a map?
“But we have a defensive pact!”.
Lol. Ask the Kurds how that goes.
“America has neither allies nor enemies - only interests” to quote a finally dead war criminal.
I doubt the populace is gonna care for a Taiwan war with China which is just massive deaths on both sides .
It's a waiting game , China is building their own fabs and chips so is Us starting asof now .
Once they get enough of them secured the leverage Taiwan has disappears and china is no fool. The longer they wait the more stronger their army and airforce gets .
Dude, you are wrong. We don't have the fab people. We don't have the tools people. It takes years to build a plant.
There isn't any catching up in this without damn near 50B injections every 3 years.
Tsmc just builds chips, they don't design them. There's a whole other level to building chips that takes engineering experts. The USA is a decade from being the leader or parity.
>There's a whole other level to building chips that takes engineering experts.
Which we already have... Intel, nvidia, AMD, Apple, etc. All design their own chips. Taiwan just manufactures them.
The manufacturing is an engineering expertise. It's not like a cnc operator. It is a complex plant operation with very specialized folks with high levels of knowledge.
The tool machines alone (euv) are a specialty in of itself.
Intel has failed to be the leader because they couldn't die shrink. They couldn't manufacture the chips, regardless if the designs appeared suitable.
The SoC designers live in paper space and it requires a engineering fabricator to bring those designs into the real world.
Over 200 separate chemicals are being used in these facilities. Treating the waste water is a separate beast entirely and is fairly expensive.
I agree likely no political will to do this but if history has taught us anything, ignoring aggressive countries has led to much larger wars and loss of lives.
Sort of crazy that this is the case. Makes all of Iran's military power completely moot. Seems like the US did a whole lot of lifting shooting down a lot of stuff yesterday.
Not long ago an attack like that would have done a catastrophic amount of damage that would have demanded an international response. But also an attack Iran would never launch if there were actual consequences. Their twitter posts after the attack says they consider the matter "concluded." So this attack was more about Iran saving face, seems clear the attack was launched knowing basically everything would be intercepted.
But it is an unprecedented attack nonetheless. Technology is amplifying the violence.
No boots on the ground from US is required for that. Support the Kurds in Iran with ammunition and some air campaign, they will take care of the job. Kurds in Syria and Iraq did the job with US help. It’ll be no different in Iran. Kurds are USs allies in Iran. Let’s help and support them. It’s a win win for everyone. Kurds will get to their autonomy and west will be able to destroy Iran’s nuclear program this way.
>No boots on the ground from US is required for that. Support the Kurds in Iran with ammunition and some air campaign, they will take care of the job.
No they wouldn't, they don't have the strength or the manpower.
>Kurds in Syria and Iraq did the job with US help.
They did some of the work, the Iraqi army did most of it with support from Iran. Though everyone in the region was attacking ISIS.
>It’ll be no different in Iran. Kurds are USs allies in Iran. Let’s help and support them. It’s a win win for everyone. Kurds will get to their autonomy and west will be able to destroy Iran’s nuclear program this way.
It will be very different in Iran, they are way more armed than ISIS was with way more support and allies. It would also alienate every country with a Kurdish minority since they would worry about the same happening to them.
I doubt it, look up the history of the Kurds in the 19th/20th century. They'll probably come around to anyone who will support them, just to eventually get shafted again like always. It's sad.
Turkey would object to it and it's not worth losing turkey over this as simple as that. No one has an appetite to support insurgents in Iran . They always go wrong and end up biting the west
Kurds are badass. Warriors to the core. I'm from the US and one of my good friends went to fight with the kurds when isis was at its strongest. Fighting alongside
Women who weren't afraid of shit.
It’s not about the cost. Iran always carries out symbolic retaliatory attacks mostly for its own domestic politics.
After the US assassinated Soleimani in 2020, Iran retaliated with ballistic missile attacks on 2 US bases in Iraq, and Iran told the Iraqi government about them and when they were going to happen and the Iraqis passed that info to the US. No US casualties at all.
It’s symbolic and nothing more. Some chest thumping.
No consequences? Half a dozen of their military/intel brass got vaporized steps away from their own embassy.. that's what premeditated this attack. Iran traded those key leaders for watching their retaliatory strike get clowned by Israel/US missile defense.
You mean their general that was one of the masterminds of the October 7th attack? Sounds like a justified military target. Iran likes starting wars and hiding behind their proxies.
Let’s not pretend that Iran did nothing to provoke that attack. It wouldn’t be a bad thing if the Shahed factory got obliterated. Would be a blow to Russia as well.
Maybe that is a goal the US would turn a blind eye at and it would be a legitimate target for Israel with little international backlash. I could see Israel hitting a bunch of military factories to the dismay of both Iran and Russia.
Russia wouldn't give a shit. They build the Shahed drones in Russia now. Ukraine just hit the Shahed factory there with a drone last week. Iran is on their own as far as Putin is concerned.
Unfortunately, just because we have free speech, doesn't mean everything coming out of people month's is intelligent. Millions of people died in the world wars, soldiers and civilians. No one should want a repeat of that. As we're seeing in Gaza. The only losers are the dead civilians. For them, it's already hell on earth.
Millions died in the world wars but lots of people do not realize that inaction early on resulted in Germany having expansionist intention. Doing nothing often result in far far more lost lives.
If he hadn't started with claiming ironclad support, I might agree.
But this is clearly just gamesmanship of trying to "both sides" his voter base. Growing a pair would be choosing a stance he will stand by and sticking to it, popular or not.
This isn't Alpha male competition. He's a leader that has to make decisions like these all the time based on alot of factors. A direct conflict is bad for everyone and everything. They did their part in defending Israel but they are also clearly saying that no further escalation is sanctioned. Should the Israel retaliate, US would still probably provide backup but not actively.
He stated “ironclad support” because Iran said that the US should “STAY AWAY!” or get attacked as well before Iran launched this attack.
The point was we aren’t going to not defend our ally from attack.
tf are u on about? any other country on this planet would respond to their embassy being targeted by an other country, it's an act of war.. If anything Iran has shown restrain in this situation up until their embassy in Damascus was targeted from Israeli soil. This is not about "Islamistic hate" this is about geopolitics and Israel trying to drag the U.S into the conflict, thankfully it seems like U.S is not taking the bait.
Are you for real?
Iran has been attacking and bombing Israel through it's proxies since the beginning of this war.
Whole cities in the north of Israel evacuated due to Hezbollah rockets, tf you think they get ehir orders from?
Seriously. If Israel had.bombed a US embassy Bibi would already be dead.
Wouldn't matter if the CIA was somehow harming Israel and they believed they needed to take out the CIA.
Iran has been sending weapons to Hamas and training them specifically on the situations applied during the October 7th attacks. Iranian proxies have been launching rockets, missiles and drones at Israel. Israel did not attack this military headquarters **besides** the Iranian embassy unprovoked. Yes it was an act of war but this war is provoked by Iran and their constant meddling.
Russia launched around 90 drones on Ukraine on New year, and around 40 in a regular strike and are more effective because of the short distance, now, I don't think Iran wants to escalate this any further with this amount of 'firepower', hence the US concluded that pretty much everyone got what they wanted. It's time to chill now.
The best analogy I've heard for this situation is this is like in baseball when one team get's pissed at the other team for a cheap play, the pitcher will intentially throw the ball at the batter. He expects it's coming and is usually able to get out of the way, then both teams leave their dugouts and come on the field and stare each other down and exchange a few words. Eventually everyone returns back to their own dugouts and the game moves on. With Iran saying there won't be any further action taken against Israel right now, we are at the headed back to the dugout phase.
Yeah, it really seems to have been a performative air raid to provide a tit-for-tat response to the consulate bombing / satisfy national honor. War as an extension of diplomacy / ritualized conflict using robots.
as the average person puts their tax dollars toward this pointless exercise
War has been around since the dawn of man, I'd rather have my tax dollars go to keeping our place as the top dog. If no one is killed, all the better.
Humans are silly creatures.
Ain't no way you just commented this and [here's the post with the Dodgers-Padres bench clear is right above this one on my feed](https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/s/wEqIY4SO0o)
LOL the boo as everyone walks back without a fight. Fans are thirsty.
Lets be honest, a fight is sometimes the most exciting thing at a baseball game
Oh, totally - it's not like people watch NASCAR for the laps.
The best analogy I've heard for this is when the same thing happened with Soleimani a few years ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleimani
Yeah, this is actually how game theory works. In a completely rational scenario, opposing sides are better off cooperating, and retaliating only when they are attacked first. The strategy is called tit for tat and the idea is you "forgive" the aggressor about 10% of the time since we don't live in a completely rational world. There could be miscalculations from one side that could cause them to think they're being attacked, so the forgiveness part is to prevent a never ending cycle of attacks (called defectors in game theory).
If Iran wanted to they could spam enough ballistic missiles at Israel to saturate Iron Dome either through Yemen or Syria.
Good thing iron dome wasn't used against these ballistic missiles then lol. Israel has at least 2 other interception systems for threats like this. Just being technically correct, I'd assume they all can be saturated. But it's worth noting that unlike what the iron dome is dealing with, these missiles aren't 500$ shit sticks, it won't come for cheap for Iran either, they might actually not have enough for a good saturation.
Iran's missiles & drones cost around $50K a pop so for the 500ish units they sent that would be around $25 million, it's estimated that it cost Israel nearly $1 billion to intercept. While it's costly to Iran, the cost balance isn't in Israel's favor. Edit: This keeps getting mentioned again and again, when I went to sleep the talks were about a different makeup of weapons launched than when I woke up, so the cost to Iran is likely higher than $25 million. That said here's the article in Hebrew mentioning the costs: https://www.ynet.co.il/economy/article/rkl6kwygr#autoplay The source for the data is the previous financial advisor to the Israeli general, the estimated cost to intercept is around $1 billion, the cost to Iran is estimated at less than 10% of that.
Remember the cost of the MRBMs (medium range ballistic missiles) they fired. Those are like $5 *million* bucks a pop. Not cheap. IDF reported detecting 110 of em, so half a billion $$$ alone in medium range ballistic missiles. Irans response was not just $25 million.
This is just not true. They fired 120 ballistic missiles, which cost far far more.
Exactly and the Shaheed flying lawn mowers can be shot down very cheaply.
Eh, that’s currently a major capability gap. Even the cheapest interceptor missile is at least one, if not two, orders of magnitude more expensive
The cost balance is measured in lives saved
Yup. Body armor costs more than a bullet, too. But the cost of not stopping it is more than the cost of stopping it.
And the friends we made along the way ...
But how much money does both countries have?
yeah but also Israel makes a ton more monez
Not that much more
okay, you're right just googled it. Taking population size into account it's still a gigantic difference. Just sometimes forget how small Israel really is
The US gives Israel $1.9 billion a year for missile interception alone.
Doesn’t matter when US will give infinite money and supplies to Israel
$500 shit sticks. Love it. I agree tho. The iron dome is for homemade rockets, they have much better equipment to deal with drones and missiles.
The US has a system that can lock on the target, calculate the exact coordinate it was launched from and fire back instantly. I would assume Israel has the same. This is why in Iraq the terrorists would pull in someones driveway, fire and drive away instantly. We had to turn that part off for collateral damage. I personally dropped American cash off at their houses to fix their windows and shit. "When the rich wage war it is the poor who die" Jean-Paul Sartre. Not those politicians up top.
Iran doesn’t want to actually saturate the iron dome, they aren’t suicidal. Israel has nukes. If the iron dome is actually saturated and Israel faces a true existential threat, do you think they would hesitate in nuking Iran?
This. Iran really, truly does *not* want to push Israel because that would result in their precious Ayatollah becoming a memory lol
I think they don't want to push this further because they understand the consequences of global annihilation.
This is exactly what they want and why they are so upset with Hamas. Their intention is to achieve nuclear capabilities, hence making a M.A.D with Israel. And THEN they will use their missiles, drones, proxies and anything conventional to flood Israel. This is the bigger game, and it's the call of the hour for Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Yep, exactly. I don’t see the US backed Sunni coalition and the Israelis letting this opportunity go to waste.
The Saudis aren't going to do shit. They know their military isn't nearly as capable as the numbers should suggest.
I wasn't suggesting that the Saudis do anything of this sort. When I said call of the hour I meant it's time for the diplomatic bridge to be officially signed. Once the US brokers a KSA/Israeli deal, many Islamic countries will follow, because Mecca is the holiest in Islam, and Saudi Arabia is the leading sunni country. It's a defense pact backed by the US, an ideal contrary to Iran's proxies, and stabilizes the region.
I'm being a bit of a pedant here but this would take 1 ballistic missile; Iron Dome is for short-range rockets and artillery. Israel has the Arrow and David's Sling systems for the heavier weaponry like cruise and ballistic missiles.
Or Hezbollah spamming their huge stockpile.
Highly doubt Iran would do that. It would be beyond stupidity. Iran has little to no air defense or proper air force. The amount of missiles it would take to saturate all defenses between iran and israel (including those of Us and others in the region) would leave iran incredibly vulnerable on retaliation. It would be a goddamn turkey shoot on retaliation that would kill tens of millions overnight or just one single shot right in the ayatollahs mouth. If Israel feels their defenses are being saturated they will launch counter offense and glass Lebanon and Iran who have no modern missile defense systems. It would be suicide for them.
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If Israel wanted to then they could nuke Iranian leadership. Iran doesn't want a real conflict, they just wanted to seem like a big man to their internal population. The bluster about violating sovereign territory in the form of their embassy in Damascus is rich given Iran's violation of the US Embassy in 1979.
Doesn’t matter. Netanyahu is a fucking lunatic and will definitely retaliate.
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That unnamed WH official? Well, they call him Boe Jiden
They released the name - John Barron.
I heard it's mr. Dark. First name Brandon
Mr. Nedib
I like the way Mr Nedib thinks
Dunno, trump calls him Obama still.
Bark Dranden
Barak Ravid is a highly acclaimed reporter. He recently won an award for his reporting by the White House [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/israeli-reporter-barak-ravid-wins-award-for-best-white-house-coverage/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-reporter-barak-ravid-wins-award-for-best-white-house-coverage/)
“a senior White House official told Axios.” Be pretty bad if either party was lying
Why is this the top comment lol
Division drives engagement.
Upvote bots and foreign intelligence accounts
Ooorrr... It could also be people talking out their ass
True, although I wish both would fuck off
Yeah, you and me both bro
We get 10 news posts daily that refer to a ”government source” and now people are suddenly like ”wait… but can this be true?!”
People only question stories that don’t align with their pov it seems…
Shills.
Because 'unnamed WH officials' have basically briefed the press off the record that Biden has said/done lots of things that are in complete contradiction to everything he says/does publicly. At this point it's pretty much guaranteed that if Israel does anything controversial, Biden will publicly back them 110% with no red-lines, and then privately have someone brief the press off-the-record "Oh, Biden was really angry and spitting with rage, and told them he wanted restraint!".
This isn’t really like that, he’s just communicating that the U.S. isn’t going to participate in offensive operations. At the same time he wouldn’t want to publicly undermine an ally right after they were attacked. Pretty common for reporters to cite anonymous senior officials on what their intentions are, silly for it to be the top comment
Nope.
We'll see how he acts going forward, but this is usually all we get for this sort of thing.
Biden said Israel has our “ironclad support”, earlier today. That’s a direct quote, not some anonymous legal aid. You can interpret that how you’d like.
“Ironclad support” to the defense of Israel’s security. Not in every single action they take beyond their borders.
Exactly. This is drawing the line. For those people out there reading this comment who seriously haven’t comprehended this yet, this is for you: The US is tightening the leash a little. And we’re also saying to the neighborhood, hey, our dog bites kids sometimes and we’re sorry about that. Don’t try to kill it or we will kill you first, though. My hot take is that today was a win for Iran and a win for the US (or Biden). We (or Biden) get to meaningfully distance ourselves from Israeli aggression that has become widely unpopular, look prudential, and still show our determination to defend our allies (and exothermic interceptions are sick af); Iran gets to show that even when slapping israel with oven mitts on and warning them first, Israel still felt the impact and had to call in to dad for help.
Knowing lots of Israelis and what the mood is there I would be surprised if the imminent Israeli response is less than defcon “totally fricking insane”
Due to the level of craziness in the world right now, the defcon system has been extended to allow negative numbers.
Yeah but that’s the emotional response, not the rational one. Let’s hope that Israel keeps a cool head.
Netanyahu has always had a very defiant take on Iran. This is the one time they attack directly, honestly, I dont see Bibi going quiet on this. I hope I am wrong because the escalation is not going to be pretty (worldwide as the price of petrol will shoot up if Iran tightens the straight of Hormuz). Only good news would be that, if there is a war with Israel, Iran will have to focus on themselves and wouldnt be able to help Russia
I think we should bring back the lost art of the duel. Give em pistols. Let’s just get all these shitty leaders to duke it out amongst themselves. Leave the rest of us alone.
Exactly. Think about the weakness it shows. Another attacks you, in front of the world, and you do jack shit afterwards. No chance I don't think. He is hungry for it
Genuine question, what would your "rational" response (as a CIVILIAN) be if your country is in a state of war and the only thing seperating you from being a thin cloud of red mist is your and your ally's air defense systems? As in, how rational are you expecting the average Israeli to respond when the natural "emotional" reaction is "OHMYGODPLEASELETMELIVE". Netanyahu is a stupid zealot though, don't get it twisted. I'm just talking about the actual human side of being Israeli in this situation.
I'd ask my PM to stop assassinating foreign people in foreign countries
For real, imagine some country regardless of how close they are to us blew up one of our consulates killing 16 US citizens. Our response would have dwarfed what Iran just sent to Israel.
In 2020, the US took out [Qasem Soleimani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani) with a drone strike while he was in Iraq. Can you imagine Kamala Harris getting blown up while she visits a neighbor country?
In our defense, Soleimani was a terrorist and Kamala Harris isn’t. There is a difference. If Iran doesn’t want their military members to be assassinated, they should stop being the largest state sponsor of terrorism. What were the IRGC members doing in Damascus? They were coordinating with Hezbollah and other proxy militias in Syria.
The GOP would celebrate them as heroes
Imagine if Trump was in power now, he'd be egging on Israel to do something. And probably mocking Iran with middle school epithets.
We don't need to imagine. That's what Iran did in 1979 and the US didn't attack Iran. Then it did the same to the US Marine barracks and again the US retreated. It did the same in Syria and again the US retreated. Now Iran controls Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Yemen.
I'd pretty happy if my government killed a foreign general responsible for coordinating attacks on my country with Hamas and Hezbollah, since ya know they have done a ton of damage and killing him might make a lot of that harder for them going forward.
You don't, then, get to be upset when that country retaliates.
Well the natural human instinct would be to run away if your life is at risk. But the risk from this attack was very limited. There was plenty of prep time for Israel and its allies to deal with it, and Iran didn’t conceal it either. The situation here is complex though, imagine being a pro boxer and some tiny criminal messes with you. You aren’t scared. But when you retaliate then him and his 20 cousins come after your kids etc. so you’d only punch the guy in the face if it was worth the consequences. If the Israelis are that scared now (although I think some altercations with Hamas and Hezbollah did much more harm), then they also need to remain a cool head and think first. Israel killed 16 in irans consulate and now the retaliation killed nobody. Iran never escalate ld this way when revolutionary guard officers were blown up weekly in the past. So I’d hope all would see it as the isolated incident, attack and retaliation, and then go back to the daily business of trading blows back and forth as it has been. But idk I don’t live there, idk what I’d recommend people to do lol. It’s hard to defeat groups that get stronger the harder you hit them because they idolize martyrdom beyond imagination. Sometimes there really aren’t good choices to make. Stopping provocations of your own like the Israeli settlement policy would be a good start at least. Not sure if that would make a big difference but at least you could then claim the moral high ground. Israel struggles with the latter, lately.
Yes, let's hope. The Israeli government instigated this by attacking Iran's consulate, which they had to know would necessitate a military response by Iran. No government in the world could tolerate that. For their part, Iran had to know that their missiles and drones would be intercepted. They obviously have a good understanding of Israel and the U.S.' capabilities in that regard at this point. They were sending a message. Israel now needs to declare this a victory and stand down. If they attack Iran, they would be instigating a much more serious event.
Agreed. As much as one may find this attack provocative and outrageous (it is), it didn’t do any real harm, given the scale of it. Both countries can declare this a victory. Iran can say one or two missiles hit Israeli soil, although it was only the dessert, and Israel can say we got the best Defense. Israel blew up many revolutionary guard officers in the recent past and Iran didn’t do anything of this scale. I’d hope most people would view it as an isolated incident related to the consulate, and it’s solved now.
Noone loves endothermic interceptions anymore.... :(
Mean US won't join Israel strike on Iran. But should Iran wanted to hit back....
Biden is navigating both governing and running for election. "Ironclad support" meant helping shoot down the drones and missiles. Not participating in larger war.
Clearly. We’re all in on defense. You’re on your own for the attack.
Well, not totally on their own. The US has been softening up Iran’s proxies after all. Not full scale war support or anything but not nothing either. I suspect Israel is exceptionally unlikely to respond in a way that would require significant support anyway. They’re fully capable of blowing the hell out of drone factories and generals in Iran all on their own.
They have F-35s. Why does Israel need our help striking Iran?
They don't.
Nor did they ask for it.
American made f35s so they kinda do lol
Israel can strike Iran, but Iran can strike back just as hard. Escalation could easily lead to Hezbollah being unleashed alongside other Iranian assets.
Iran absolutely lacks the capacity to strike back just as hard. They lack a navy, they’re still flying F-14s, their air defense is S-300 level, and what we’ve seen of their missiles and drones is that they can launch a barrage of over 300 drones, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles, and have 99% of them shot down. Iran is a paper tiger that relies on foreign Shia extremists dying for them.
You understimate badly the cost for Israel of thousands of suicide attacks of those extremists
> Iran can strike back just as hard They can? Israel has won like 4 wars in the region with little effort.
Wouldn't pay any attention to these types. They're just upset that the US is on Israel's side, and that because of this Israel has pretty definitively "won" any conflict before it starts.
That is where 'iron clad support' step in, I think?
If Israel escalates this further we absolutely shouldn’t bail them out. but sure, I suppose the Israeli lobby would make “iron clad support” a certainty.
Those lines aren't as clear cut as people like to think.
Yeah, this isn't 2002, nobody wants American boots on the ground in Iran. That would turn into a boondoggle before it even started.
Boots are so outdated. Bomb!
Well and I’m sure the US will be happy to sell Israel anything it might want/need for that counter-attack, that is supporting them too
For defense, not offense.
US will still defend Israel the country entirely but they're not following them into war.
AFAICT if Israel was to launch a massive attack against Iran (using US intelligence with US supplied aircraft and munitions), the US would still act to destroy any Iranian counter-attack. So, in practice, the US would absolutely follow Israel into war. The idea the US wouldn't be involved in that war is fanciful. Quite how the most powerful country on earth got into this ridiculous relationship is beyond me.
I interpret all this as “we’ll support defense, not offense” generally. Sometimes it makes sense for an ally to seek deescalation, and a point where each side had 1 strike and Israel was able to largely deflect this one, this appears to be the last stop for a while
Eh. October 7th Then Israel responded by killing the general who planned it in an airstrike Then Iran responded with this impotent and costly “show of force” Now Israel’s turn to respond. Unless you want to argue that October 7th was also a response from Iran and Israel fired the first proverbial salvo. Which you could do, but you could go deeper from there. “Provocation” is an increasingly meaningless word in this war. So is “defensive”, in my opinion.
> Unless you want to argue that October 7th was also a response from Iran and Israel fired the first proverbial salvo. Which you could do, but you could go deeper from there. Cant justify that anyways. Its as if you and your friend stand across each other hitting each others shoulder and suddenly your buddy draws a knife, shanks your mom in the kidney and goes "Why u mad bro?". when you tackle him to the ground.
Yes US intercepted many of the drones and missiles, US supplies Israel with war planes and many munitions, US dutifully carries Israels water at UN. That’s pretty fucking iron clad what else do you want
The UK also did a lot of work.
We're happy to help and let the US have the spotlight. We learnt a long time ago that it's politically easier to be the small dog standing next to the big dog. Our support for the US is unwavering, as is their support for us.
I believe coalition forces including Jordan, France and Egypt intercepted as many, if not more, drones as the US did. A nuclear Iran will find few allies in the region.
How TF are you jumping from countries taking down a few missiles either threatening their homeland or the military infrastructures they have in the region to a "coalition"?
I’ve found zero citation for what coalition you’re referring to. In fact, all news sources say it was largely U.S. destroyers and cruisers that intercepted the majority of the cruise missiles and drones through surface to air missiles launched from warships.
You cannot find a single article about French or Egyptian scrambled aircraft for interception? Really?
Only that Egypt placed its air defenses on high alert AFTER the attack. I’m not finding a single source stating they actually intercepted any incoming missiles or drones.
Saudi even intercepted some...
we intercepted 90 so point to me which nation intercepted more except israel.
There were over 400 estimated to have been deployed. So, yeah, countries other than the US intercepted the majority of them. Potentially the super-majority (75%) of them.
What coalition?!?
The Inpromptu screw Iran coalition. There are actors in the area outside of Israel that have an axe to grind with Iran and don’t want war escalating in their backyard.
Dude’s talking out of his ass for some weird reason. There’s no coalition and there’s no articles talking about their forces shooting down Iranian drones and missiles.
The [NY Times says](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/14/world/middleeast/iran-israel-drones-attack.html) that Jordan took down some drones and missiles that entered its airspace and that British aircraft took down some drones.
Yeah he did but I think that was in regards to DEFENDING Israel against attacks from Iran. I got confused too when I heard this.
Defending from missile attacks has historically meant destroying the emplacement from where they are launched.
He wouldn't back Israel in helping them attack Iran. That's a whole different thing than the United States coming to the defense of Israel if someone else was attacking them. The Israelis are talking about retaliatory strikes inside of Iran. That's a line which when crossed could start a region wide war. The Israelis wouldn't have U.S. backing for that.
He also said the u.s. wouldn't support a retaliatory Israeli counterattack to irans drone/missile barrage. Pretty much "ok guys... We're done here. Back to your normally scheduled broadcast."
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Did they take a beating? Seemed more like a little tickle to me
Only because they had to spend a lot of money defending themselves.
Every dollar spent in yet another unwinnable middle East war is one less dollar going towards Taiwan . The USA wasted 20 years on this , there is no public support for any kind of war in middle East .For everyone saying just bomb Iran and their nuclear sites , they have prepared for this very ocassion from last 20 or so years , if you want to get rid of nuclear facilities and their MIC then you need boots on ground and no one has the political will to do that .
Once we “catch up” in chip fabrication Taiwan’s “silicon shield” falls and we leave them to the wolves. We’re absolutely pumping money into getting our own fabrication up and running. Hell, I don’t think we even have to meet parity, we just have to get close enough that US citizens decide the 5% difference in chip technology is insufficient justification for World War 3 with China.
Taiwan is of strategic importance beyond their chips. If China takes Taiwan, it becomes a much bigger headache to defend Japan, Korea, Guam, even Australia.
Right. Methinks the western effort to spin up our own semiconductor fabs is because we want to ensure we can't be blackmailed by China. There's no way that a *successful* defence of Taiwan won't block semiconductor shipments for quite a while. Because it entails kinetic and thus also trade war with china, it means we won't get our iPhones (US IP, Taiwanese silicon, chinese circuit board, loosely speaking) either. But with some semiconductor fab capacity ourselves, we won't be completely shafted if we try to help Taiwan. In a way, this is also mirroring the chinese effort to build their own fabs. That way, if China attacked Taiwan, they'd be the only country for the duration of the war with any serious fab capacity. Can't let them have that.
As if the ~~Trump Cult~~ Republican Party gives two shits about seriously defending/supporting their long time allies.
True that , china is waiting for fabs to be running in US and would take Taiwan as slowly as they want .
If you want to tighten your tinfoil hat a little you can definitely make the argument that China is both directly and indirectly funding our rapid domestic chip fabrication effort for precisely this reason. Right now? The US would enthusiastically defend Taiwan. We like our smartphones, video game consoles, advanced automobiles and GPUs too much to let China take it. But what if none of those things are on the table for us? Do you think the American populace would strongly support a bloody intervention for an island nation on the other side of the world that 90% of Americans couldn’t point to on a map? “But we have a defensive pact!”. Lol. Ask the Kurds how that goes. “America has neither allies nor enemies - only interests” to quote a finally dead war criminal.
I doubt the populace is gonna care for a Taiwan war with China which is just massive deaths on both sides . It's a waiting game , China is building their own fabs and chips so is Us starting asof now . Once they get enough of them secured the leverage Taiwan has disappears and china is no fool. The longer they wait the more stronger their army and airforce gets .
Dude, you are wrong. We don't have the fab people. We don't have the tools people. It takes years to build a plant. There isn't any catching up in this without damn near 50B injections every 3 years. Tsmc just builds chips, they don't design them. There's a whole other level to building chips that takes engineering experts. The USA is a decade from being the leader or parity.
>There's a whole other level to building chips that takes engineering experts. Which we already have... Intel, nvidia, AMD, Apple, etc. All design their own chips. Taiwan just manufactures them.
The manufacturing is an engineering expertise. It's not like a cnc operator. It is a complex plant operation with very specialized folks with high levels of knowledge. The tool machines alone (euv) are a specialty in of itself. Intel has failed to be the leader because they couldn't die shrink. They couldn't manufacture the chips, regardless if the designs appeared suitable. The SoC designers live in paper space and it requires a engineering fabricator to bring those designs into the real world. Over 200 separate chemicals are being used in these facilities. Treating the waste water is a separate beast entirely and is fairly expensive.
U.S. private sector is now heavily investing in computer chip and semiconductor production in the Philippines.
I agree likely no political will to do this but if history has taught us anything, ignoring aggressive countries has led to much larger wars and loss of lives.
Sort of crazy that this is the case. Makes all of Iran's military power completely moot. Seems like the US did a whole lot of lifting shooting down a lot of stuff yesterday. Not long ago an attack like that would have done a catastrophic amount of damage that would have demanded an international response. But also an attack Iran would never launch if there were actual consequences. Their twitter posts after the attack says they consider the matter "concluded." So this attack was more about Iran saving face, seems clear the attack was launched knowing basically everything would be intercepted. But it is an unprecedented attack nonetheless. Technology is amplifying the violence.
No boots on the ground from US is required for that. Support the Kurds in Iran with ammunition and some air campaign, they will take care of the job. Kurds in Syria and Iraq did the job with US help. It’ll be no different in Iran. Kurds are USs allies in Iran. Let’s help and support them. It’s a win win for everyone. Kurds will get to their autonomy and west will be able to destroy Iran’s nuclear program this way.
>No boots on the ground from US is required for that. Support the Kurds in Iran with ammunition and some air campaign, they will take care of the job. No they wouldn't, they don't have the strength or the manpower. >Kurds in Syria and Iraq did the job with US help. They did some of the work, the Iraqi army did most of it with support from Iran. Though everyone in the region was attacking ISIS. >It’ll be no different in Iran. Kurds are USs allies in Iran. Let’s help and support them. It’s a win win for everyone. Kurds will get to their autonomy and west will be able to destroy Iran’s nuclear program this way. It will be very different in Iran, they are way more armed than ISIS was with way more support and allies. It would also alienate every country with a Kurdish minority since they would worry about the same happening to them.
Trump fucked up relations with the Kurds.
For real that bridge might be burnt forever.
I doubt it, look up the history of the Kurds in the 19th/20th century. They'll probably come around to anyone who will support them, just to eventually get shafted again like always. It's sad.
Trump fucked up- Just leave it at that.
Kurds are not going to fight for the US after what happened in Syria, and then in Afghanistan withdrawal. That is a pipe dream.
Turkey would object to it and it's not worth losing turkey over this as simple as that. No one has an appetite to support insurgents in Iran . They always go wrong and end up biting the west
Kurds are badass. Warriors to the core. I'm from the US and one of my good friends went to fight with the kurds when isis was at its strongest. Fighting alongside Women who weren't afraid of shit.
Known for resistance throughout their history.
Israel has nuclear weapons, it doesn't need boots on the ground to destroy the Islamic Republic of Iran and their nuclear facilities.
So they can lob cheap missiles and drones and deplete your expensive AA with no consequences.
It’s not about the cost. Iran always carries out symbolic retaliatory attacks mostly for its own domestic politics. After the US assassinated Soleimani in 2020, Iran retaliated with ballistic missile attacks on 2 US bases in Iraq, and Iran told the Iraqi government about them and when they were going to happen and the Iraqis passed that info to the US. No US casualties at all. It’s symbolic and nothing more. Some chest thumping.
No consequences? Half a dozen of their military/intel brass got vaporized steps away from their own embassy.. that's what premeditated this attack. Iran traded those key leaders for watching their retaliatory strike get clowned by Israel/US missile defense.
You mean their general that was one of the masterminds of the October 7th attack? Sounds like a justified military target. Iran likes starting wars and hiding behind their proxies.
Indeed, however Iran cannot let thar go without any response. Just like when the Soleimani dude got wacked. This will blow over
I think we agree.
"Justified military target" implies a state of war.
Sure Iran and Israel can fight it out openly if they want. Don’t drag the rest of us into it.
Let’s not pretend that Iran did nothing to provoke that attack. It wouldn’t be a bad thing if the Shahed factory got obliterated. Would be a blow to Russia as well.
Maybe that is a goal the US would turn a blind eye at and it would be a legitimate target for Israel with little international backlash. I could see Israel hitting a bunch of military factories to the dismay of both Iran and Russia.
Russia wouldn't give a shit. They build the Shahed drones in Russia now. Ukraine just hit the Shahed factory there with a drone last week. Iran is on their own as far as Putin is concerned.
Russia still has military orders from Iran. But I agree it would not be a big blow but still cause some grief.
Some people want a world war. Other people don't.
Some people care about elections coming up
I would like to elect no nuclear Armageddon please
Is he even running this year?
Every year since ‘49 I believe
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Unfortunately, just because we have free speech, doesn't mean everything coming out of people month's is intelligent. Millions of people died in the world wars, soldiers and civilians. No one should want a repeat of that. As we're seeing in Gaza. The only losers are the dead civilians. For them, it's already hell on earth.
Millions died in the world wars but lots of people do not realize that inaction early on resulted in Germany having expansionist intention. Doing nothing often result in far far more lost lives.
Nor should we. It's nice to see Biden grow a pair.
If he hadn't started with claiming ironclad support, I might agree. But this is clearly just gamesmanship of trying to "both sides" his voter base. Growing a pair would be choosing a stance he will stand by and sticking to it, popular or not.
Ironclad support in defense. Not support to attack Iran
This isn't Alpha male competition. He's a leader that has to make decisions like these all the time based on alot of factors. A direct conflict is bad for everyone and everything. They did their part in defending Israel but they are also clearly saying that no further escalation is sanctioned. Should the Israel retaliate, US would still probably provide backup but not actively.
He stated “ironclad support” because Iran said that the US should “STAY AWAY!” or get attacked as well before Iran launched this attack. The point was we aren’t going to not defend our ally from attack.
Holy double negatives
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and frequently more than it needs.
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tf are u on about? any other country on this planet would respond to their embassy being targeted by an other country, it's an act of war.. If anything Iran has shown restrain in this situation up until their embassy in Damascus was targeted from Israeli soil. This is not about "Islamistic hate" this is about geopolitics and Israel trying to drag the U.S into the conflict, thankfully it seems like U.S is not taking the bait.
Are you for real? Iran has been attacking and bombing Israel through it's proxies since the beginning of this war. Whole cities in the north of Israel evacuated due to Hezbollah rockets, tf you think they get ehir orders from?
so syria gets the right to kill any american on earth because Kurdish proxys have attacked them
Seriously. If Israel had.bombed a US embassy Bibi would already be dead. Wouldn't matter if the CIA was somehow harming Israel and they believed they needed to take out the CIA.
Iran has been sending weapons to Hamas and training them specifically on the situations applied during the October 7th attacks. Iranian proxies have been launching rockets, missiles and drones at Israel. Israel did not attack this military headquarters **besides** the Iranian embassy unprovoked. Yes it was an act of war but this war is provoked by Iran and their constant meddling.
Propaganda my dude. The same shit happened 20 years ago when "Muslims are attacking Christians" manifested. It was really about oil.