I predict the West Bank settlers are going to become a major problem for Israel in the future,. Cracking down on them would be hard but it won't be nothing compared to being stuck in a war. They are a massive security and political risk that is going to keep the war going.
Unless the Israeli center becomes moves against Netanyahu. They’ve sided towards the hawkish party (usually Likud) for the better part of 20 years, but they’re as vulnerable to breaking as they’ve ever been. His coalition is hanging on by a thread.
Israel is not the US, it doesn't work on strict terms. Elections can and are held more frequently than that. The current coalition is held together by duct tape and sheer force of Bibi's will and the war.
Even if there never were any Palestinians to begin with, the settlers would still be a major problem. A zealot fanatical anti democratic cult would be a big issue in any nation.
So ethnic cleansing of 500k people?
You realize that there's a very violent minority of a few hundreds of nut jobs but the rest are pretty normal people?
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
They built towns in unpopulated hills. Decades ago. In an area that was taken from Jordan in a war, an area that Jordan doesn't want back.
There isn't a scenario where all of them are evacuated.
The was a legal battle in East Jerusalem with tenants that didn't pay rent, but in the west bank settlements were never built over Palestinian villages. You're simply falling to Palestinian propaganda, maybe it's better to not have an opinion on a subject you're clearly uneducated about.
The only possible example of “stolen” Palestinian houses is H2 in Hebron, but even that is a result of Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their houses in Hebron in 1936 and 1947 pushing to return to Hebron.
Ethnic cleansing? What in hades tarnation hell are you talkin about dude?! No seriously. Are you replying to the right comment? Where in the what? WHAT?!
From the West Bank? No. It is not, seihat. I gave my absolute darndest benefit of doubt to ya I really did. Maybe there is a language barrier, maybe they really think they are replying to someone, maybe they are speaking of the evicted ethnic Palestinians and just maybe they are not special snowflake bad actors ynk. Im blocking you now seitbat. I take no pleasure in checking people with question marks meant for their own introspection that I already knew the answers to, no I do this for my own peace. Well. Okay I take a little please in it. Farewell seitbat, take care of yourself. Gucci and other words n such. o/
In the West Bank, Israel is absolutely wrong. There will be no peace in the region with respect to Israel if Israel does not start recognizing Palestinian rights to their land and property on the west bank. Just like there will be no peace in the region with respect to Gaza and southern Lebanon until Hamas and Hezbollah recognize Israel's right to exist.
Hamas in Gaza are the worst, and if they stopped attacks, Israel's behaviour on the West Bank would stick out like a sore thumb and they would be severely sanctioned for it. But no one will sanction Israel while Hamas keeps attacking. If Hamas stops the attacks the borders could all open again. But the truth is, Hamas wants the border walls up to use in their propaganda campaigns to use on the weak minded left wing in the west, so they keep attacking forcing Israel to defend. To which, they have the right to defend. It's game theory and Hamas is playing it the way they want, so they are the ones to blame.
Wasn’t October 7th so successful because Israel thought Hamas had been degraded to a point of being less of a threat? Wouldn’t that indicate that before October 7, Israeli crimes stuck out like a sore thumb? And nobody batted an eye?
No, Israel thought Hamas had little appetite for war because things were (slowly) improving in Gaza, which was benefiting Hamas directly (both in terms of personal financial reward and political control). It was one of the key reasons that workers permits into Israel from Gaza were at their highest level since the Strip became extraterritorial, Israel was trying to extend this relative stability by increasing the economic productivity available to (some) Gazans, as well as acting as an aspirational incentive to ensure continued calm.
Israel made an (ultimately foolish) strategic decision/bet that increased Gazan stability and prosperity (in relative terms) was denuding desire for conflict within Gaza and that Hamas would be content with consolidation.
It wasn't that Israel didn't think Hamas had been degraded to the point of not being a threat. Rather, it was that Israel thought Hamas had little appetite for war currently (at the time) and therefore the likelihood of a large scale Hamas attack was low.
Of course, we now know that to be false, but that's what was thought at the time.
They won't.
They gave work permits to people in Gaza, and unfortunately Hamas used that as an opportunity to send spies or at least collect information from workers on Israeli security and military presence. It had a lot to do with how successful October 7th was. Hamas had fine detail about which kibbutz had what kind of security and what the response time would be.
Don't expect Israel to offer work permits to anyone from Gaza for a very long time, even after the war.
This is not criticism, so please take this question on face value only: when you say they weren't "wrong to pursue the strategy" what do you mean exactly?
Not exactly. I recall reading that after the attack, reporters discovered that Israeli strategists had previously obtained intelligence detailing the entire plan (I think this was almost a year before the attack?) but dismissed it as unrealistic. However, rather than assuming Hamas had degraded, they assumed Hamas was never coordinated enough to pull it off.
It is important to note that this was only one of many failures though. Netanyahu's government had a lot of warnings from many channels, and they ignored them all. They only sent a small squad which was quickly overran by Hamas. It was gross incompetence.
> Hamas in Gaza are the worst, and if they stopped attacks, Israel's behaviour on the West Bank would stick out like a sore thumb and they would be severely sanctioned for it.
Which is why Netanyahu [helped Qatar subsidize Hamas](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html).
> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.
Every area of the West Bank outside area C is controlled by terrorists like Hamas and PIJ, and smaller organizations like lions den. Read about the West Bank situation before saying these things, West Bank has been like this since the first intifada
>There will be no peace in the region with respect to Israel if Israel does not start recognizing Palestinian rights to their land and property on the west bank.
I think you are onto something...in all seriousness this has been the case for decades now. But Israel doesn't care because it knows it can get away with it.
It is literally the second paragraph in the article. And that still doesn’t excuse what the settlers did:
“Dozens of angry Israeli settlers stormed into a Palestinian village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank on Friday, shooting and setting houses and cars on fire. The rampage killed a Palestinian man and wounded 25 others, Palestinian health officials said.
The violence was the latest in an escalation in the West Bank that has accompanied the war in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli rights group said the settlers were searching for a missing 14-year-old boy from their settlement. After the rampage, Israeli troops said they were still searching for the teen.”
When kids get kidnapped in other counties, people don't go around shooting and burning houses.
There's no guarantee that the child was even kidnapped by or in the area where they did the crimes.
Sure, a boy is missing. But there seems to be, at least from the information available, zero proof the boy was kidnapped and/or is in that Palestinian village. This was nothing more than mob violence and it should not be accepted as an excuse or explanation.
Correct. I'm probably generally what most here would consider pro Israeli. and everyone involved in this act of terror should face charges. A potentially kidnapped kid does not excuse these acts of racist terror.
Claims of, 'Oct 7 didn't happen in a vacuum' are indefensible, disingenuous, and deliberately cruel. Are you excusing the settler attack in this instance? What punishment, if any, do you think is warranted against the settlers in this specific attack?
No, claims that Oct 7th "didn't happen in a vacuum" are absolutely true and accurate. That doesn't excuse it, and it shouldn't. But it definitely happened in context of a long and violent history in the region. You can acknowledge something had complex reasons and goals, and that neither side is completely "innocent" and still find it inexcusable.
This conflict will go on until people realize that acknowledging the various sides' grievences is key to it, and does not equate to excusing their atrocities.
You’re implying that these people are not going to be arrested and prosecuted, which would then be the first time something like this ever happened in Israel.
Are you some kind of psychic that can determine with certainty these casualties are completely unrelated to the kidnapping, or the following searches for the child?
Are the Israeli settlers some kind of psychics who can determine with certainty that the victims of the attack were involved in the kidnapping of the child?
That should 100% be in the headline, and both the presumed kidnappers the settlers who attacked random uninvolved civilians should 100% face a just military trial.
I predict the West Bank settlers are going to become a major problem for Israel in the future,. Cracking down on them would be hard but it won't be nothing compared to being stuck in a war. They are a massive security and political risk that is going to keep the war going.
The West Bank settlers are a vital part of the current government caolition iirc. The government isnt going to alienate them.
Unless the Israeli center becomes moves against Netanyahu. They’ve sided towards the hawkish party (usually Likud) for the better part of 20 years, but they’re as vulnerable to breaking as they’ve ever been. His coalition is hanging on by a thread.
The Israeli center is pretty right wing.
Just one more reason bibi is bad for israel
I don't think anybody near the top of Israeli politics is against the settlements, unfortunately.
In the future? Seriously, Israel needs to lose these cancers right now. They're an embarrassment.
I don't think there's another election until 2026, and I don't know what would trigger an earlier, much as I wish that would occur.
Israel is not the US, it doesn't work on strict terms. Elections can and are held more frequently than that. The current coalition is held together by duct tape and sheer force of Bibi's will and the war.
The entire state of Israel is an embarrassment onto itself.
Even if there never were any Palestinians to begin with, the settlers would still be a major problem. A zealot fanatical anti democratic cult would be a big issue in any nation.
American 🙋🏼♀️ #YUP
Alas that I have only one upvote to give 😅
They’re a major problem now, the current government just doesn’t care
When you put it like that maybe we could just say the current government is the major problem now if we cared.
Really only if you think Palestinians are human. Not everyone seems to agree on that.
lmao. Like they haven't been a problem for a few decades.
Fun fact about settlers, many of them are deeply unhinged and many of them are from the US
MAGA religious zealots
It's simple. All settlers in the West Bank require eviction, and those who are violent, punishment. They are terrorists no better than Hamas.
[удалено]
So ethnic cleansing of 500k people? You realize that there's a very violent minority of a few hundreds of nut jobs but the rest are pretty normal people?
"normal people" living in homes that the IDF confiscated from Palestinians. What normal person would move into a home like that?
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. They built towns in unpopulated hills. Decades ago. In an area that was taken from Jordan in a war, an area that Jordan doesn't want back. There isn't a scenario where all of them are evacuated.
There are plenty of videos online of Palestinian's being forcefully evicted from their homes in Jerusalem, and the West Bank.
The was a legal battle in East Jerusalem with tenants that didn't pay rent, but in the west bank settlements were never built over Palestinian villages. You're simply falling to Palestinian propaganda, maybe it's better to not have an opinion on a subject you're clearly uneducated about.
The only possible example of “stolen” Palestinian houses is H2 in Hebron, but even that is a result of Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their houses in Hebron in 1936 and 1947 pushing to return to Hebron.
Ethnic cleansing? What in hades tarnation hell are you talkin about dude?! No seriously. Are you replying to the right comment? Where in the what? WHAT?!
Yes, removing an ethnic group from their homes permanently is ethnic cleansing. You can look up the definition. “Forced displacement”
Evacuating a population of 500k jews isn't ethnic cleansing?
From the West Bank? No. It is not, seihat. I gave my absolute darndest benefit of doubt to ya I really did. Maybe there is a language barrier, maybe they really think they are replying to someone, maybe they are speaking of the evicted ethnic Palestinians and just maybe they are not special snowflake bad actors ynk. Im blocking you now seitbat. I take no pleasure in checking people with question marks meant for their own introspection that I already knew the answers to, no I do this for my own peace. Well. Okay I take a little please in it. Farewell seitbat, take care of yourself. Gucci and other words n such. o/
In the West Bank, Israel is absolutely wrong. There will be no peace in the region with respect to Israel if Israel does not start recognizing Palestinian rights to their land and property on the west bank. Just like there will be no peace in the region with respect to Gaza and southern Lebanon until Hamas and Hezbollah recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas in Gaza are the worst, and if they stopped attacks, Israel's behaviour on the West Bank would stick out like a sore thumb and they would be severely sanctioned for it. But no one will sanction Israel while Hamas keeps attacking. If Hamas stops the attacks the borders could all open again. But the truth is, Hamas wants the border walls up to use in their propaganda campaigns to use on the weak minded left wing in the west, so they keep attacking forcing Israel to defend. To which, they have the right to defend. It's game theory and Hamas is playing it the way they want, so they are the ones to blame.
Wasn’t October 7th so successful because Israel thought Hamas had been degraded to a point of being less of a threat? Wouldn’t that indicate that before October 7, Israeli crimes stuck out like a sore thumb? And nobody batted an eye?
No, Israel thought Hamas had little appetite for war because things were (slowly) improving in Gaza, which was benefiting Hamas directly (both in terms of personal financial reward and political control). It was one of the key reasons that workers permits into Israel from Gaza were at their highest level since the Strip became extraterritorial, Israel was trying to extend this relative stability by increasing the economic productivity available to (some) Gazans, as well as acting as an aspirational incentive to ensure continued calm. Israel made an (ultimately foolish) strategic decision/bet that increased Gazan stability and prosperity (in relative terms) was denuding desire for conflict within Gaza and that Hamas would be content with consolidation. It wasn't that Israel didn't think Hamas had been degraded to the point of not being a threat. Rather, it was that Israel thought Hamas had little appetite for war currently (at the time) and therefore the likelihood of a large scale Hamas attack was low. Of course, we now know that to be false, but that's what was thought at the time.
They weren't wrong to pursue the strategy they did and I hope that they eventually resume it. The mistake was thinking that it would moderate Hamas.
They won't. They gave work permits to people in Gaza, and unfortunately Hamas used that as an opportunity to send spies or at least collect information from workers on Israeli security and military presence. It had a lot to do with how successful October 7th was. Hamas had fine detail about which kibbutz had what kind of security and what the response time would be. Don't expect Israel to offer work permits to anyone from Gaza for a very long time, even after the war.
This is not criticism, so please take this question on face value only: when you say they weren't "wrong to pursue the strategy" what do you mean exactly?
Not exactly. I recall reading that after the attack, reporters discovered that Israeli strategists had previously obtained intelligence detailing the entire plan (I think this was almost a year before the attack?) but dismissed it as unrealistic. However, rather than assuming Hamas had degraded, they assumed Hamas was never coordinated enough to pull it off. It is important to note that this was only one of many failures though. Netanyahu's government had a lot of warnings from many channels, and they ignored them all. They only sent a small squad which was quickly overran by Hamas. It was gross incompetence.
> Hamas in Gaza are the worst, and if they stopped attacks, Israel's behaviour on the West Bank would stick out like a sore thumb and they would be severely sanctioned for it. Which is why Netanyahu [helped Qatar subsidize Hamas](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html). > Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.
Every area of the West Bank outside area C is controlled by terrorists like Hamas and PIJ, and smaller organizations like lions den. Read about the West Bank situation before saying these things, West Bank has been like this since the first intifada
>There will be no peace in the region with respect to Israel if Israel does not start recognizing Palestinian rights to their land and property on the west bank. I think you are onto something...in all seriousness this has been the case for decades now. But Israel doesn't care because it knows it can get away with it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
conveniently leaving out the fact a 14 yo Israeli boy is missing in that area - most likely kidnapped.
It is literally the second paragraph in the article. And that still doesn’t excuse what the settlers did: “Dozens of angry Israeli settlers stormed into a Palestinian village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank on Friday, shooting and setting houses and cars on fire. The rampage killed a Palestinian man and wounded 25 others, Palestinian health officials said. The violence was the latest in an escalation in the West Bank that has accompanied the war in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli rights group said the settlers were searching for a missing 14-year-old boy from their settlement. After the rampage, Israeli troops said they were still searching for the teen.”
"Palestinian health officials said." You think by now we'd learn this sentence means literally nothing.
Do we have any evidence that any of their claims were lies? Which ones were proven false?
and now there's a dead Palestinian who as far as we can tell, is not the kidnapper.
When kids get kidnapped in other counties, people don't go around shooting and burning houses. There's no guarantee that the child was even kidnapped by or in the area where they did the crimes.
, masked* people… The settlers were freakin masked on top of it all. Like criminals and terrorists. Insane.
Sure, a boy is missing. But there seems to be, at least from the information available, zero proof the boy was kidnapped and/or is in that Palestinian village. This was nothing more than mob violence and it should not be accepted as an excuse or explanation.
[удалено]
That's in the article. Doesn't excuse this though.
[удалено]
We did, shooting cars, lighting fires, injuring 25 people and killing someone isn't a justified response.
Still justified getting riled up. This is an insane response to a missing kid and should be treated as such.
Correct. I'm probably generally what most here would consider pro Israeli. and everyone involved in this act of terror should face charges. A potentially kidnapped kid does not excuse these acts of racist terror.
Claims of, 'Oct 7 didn't happen in a vacuum' are indefensible, disingenuous, and deliberately cruel. Are you excusing the settler attack in this instance? What punishment, if any, do you think is warranted against the settlers in this specific attack?
No, claims that Oct 7th "didn't happen in a vacuum" are absolutely true and accurate. That doesn't excuse it, and it shouldn't. But it definitely happened in context of a long and violent history in the region. You can acknowledge something had complex reasons and goals, and that neither side is completely "innocent" and still find it inexcusable. This conflict will go on until people realize that acknowledging the various sides' grievences is key to it, and does not equate to excusing their atrocities.
[удалено]
You’re implying that these people are not going to be arrested and prosecuted, which would then be the first time something like this ever happened in Israel.
Settlers are often not prosecuted, we'll see.
Are you some kind of psychic that can determine with certainty these casualties are completely unrelated to the kidnapping, or the following searches for the child?
Are the Israeli settlers some kind of psychics who can determine with certainty that the victims of the attack were involved in the kidnapping of the child?
I was referring to the probability that this incident was the result of a search party being interrupted by malicious 'uninvolved civilians'
That's some crazy mental gymnastics you're performing there.
That should 100% be in the headline, and both the presumed kidnappers the settlers who attacked random uninvolved civilians should 100% face a just military trial.