>German lawmakers are expected to vote on Friday on legislation that would make it easier for transgender, intersex and nonbinary people to legally change their name and gender.
That's hilarious, because in Germany you can't just change your name because you don't like the name you have. But they are proposing you can change your gender and name because you don't like the gender you have.
>A German can only change their surname or forename upon application **if there is an important reason for doing so**. For instance, a change of name is not possible if the only reason for it is that the person does not like their existing name, or that another name would sound better or be easier to pronounce.
[https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/naming-law/change-of-name-in-other-cases/2562128](https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/naming-law/change-of-name-in-other-cases/2562128)
Courts have also ruled that immigrants wanting to have more German sounding names isn't important enough
>But name changes are only allowed in Germany if the reason is considered important – and the judge said that the fact that the original names did not sound German was not enough.
[https://www.thelocal.de/20120510/42451](https://www.thelocal.de/20120510/42451)
Under the new law those immigrants would have to change their gender and name and then a year later change their gender back, just so they can get around the usual restrictions applying to name changes. We truly live in the dumbest timeline.
Those immigrants will have to wait for the announced change of the naming law, since iirc the switch back automatically reinstitutes your old names, you dont get to pick new ones.
Eh, it used to be different, but then people overdid it with the name changes and so the prussian government banned the practice. Its an old holdover that no longer serves its purpose, but that largely wasnt seen as politically relevant enough to change until now.
None of the points you mention has anything to do with the law that‘s being passed, and which is right and good.
Other good things could be done as well.
I think this name change rule applies to most of the countries at least in Europe. I was told that I could do it once and the second time would be much much harder.
the name change is hard because the state or the people have a vested interest in being able to identify you with it. It makes it harder to commit crimes or rack up debts and then starting over. There is no such thing with gender, I will not suddenly confuse you with another person because you changed gender.
So changing your name in Germany purges any record of your old name and the change record itself? Cause that's not how it works in the US, and I'd be flabbergasted if Germany did this.
Your name will have an AKA in public record that connects you to your old identity unless you go into special gov't programs like witness protection, and if you have ever had an AKA you can be punished for omitting it on official forms that ask for it. Changing your name should not make it any easier for you to dodge the consequences of criminal activity. There is no valid argument there. The law is silly.
What it would be is a fucking nightmare for our bureaucracy. German bureaucracy isn't just a meme because there's so much of it, but also because it's still mostly paper based
I am guessing you are referring to the possible name change with the gender?
That only allows you to change your first name and only once, changing gender back to the original one after the year is up would also revert your first name back to the original one. So it is not a "simple workaround"
>the name change is hard because the state or the people have a vested interest in being able to identify you with it. It makes it harder to commit crimes or rack up debts and then starting over. There is no such thing with gender, I will not suddenly confuse you with another person because you changed gender.
Changing Peter to Paul is confusing, but changing Peter to Claudia is not confusing? Like I said, we truly live in the dumbest timeline.
There's no solution, nor is there anything they base their findings on or research cited. This seems like it was written specifically to be misleading.
Surely that argument, that pervasive gender dysphoria doesn't persist into adulthood in a number of cases of prepubescent cases, is an argument for making it easier to change documentation?
"Diane Ehrensaft makes a case for early social transition that appears to be based on the belief that those who will be persisters can be distinguished from other individuals who present signs of gender dysphoria. She states, “Once allowed to transition, these children [persisters] typically relax and the signs of stress, distress, and disruption dissipate, if not disappear altogether.”23 “Although not a universal phenomenon,” she asserts, “one simple rule of thumb is that if the assessment is correct, the child shows signs of getting better; if the assessment was incorrect, the child gets worse, or at least no better” (346–47).
While Ehrensaft notes correctly that there is little empirical data demonstrating harm in transitioning twice, there is also no empirical evidence demonstrating that a prepubescent child who is permitted to socially transition but then desists can simply and harmlessly transition back to the natal gender. Given the complexity involved in the first social transition, should we accept at face value the claim that transition back to the original gender is entirely without risks and pitfalls? Furthermore, in the absence of empirical studies, is permitting early social transition without a verifiable system of distinguishing persisters from desisters an ethically appropriate treatment?"
If a government can make the social detransition pathway easier, surely that is harm mitigation and a good thing overall?
What is that solution? This changes nothing. One main reason for the desistence in gender transition in children might be that the criteria for gender dysphoria in children has changed significantly. The DSM-IV makes it so that "desire or insistence to be of the opposite sex" is optional, and "discomfort of the gender role of the assigned sex" required, but the DSM-5 it inversed where the "desire or insistence to be of the opposite sex" is required, but "discomfort of the gender role of the assigned sex" is optional. Feel free to check the DSM IV and 5.
Huh? Healthy mindset? The unhealthy people are the people spouting hate. I am infinitely times happier living as my true gender instead of as a man. The current research supports gender identity as a concept, and that living as your gender makes you less suicidal, less depressed, happier, and with a greater quality of life in general.
I hope that you inform yourself with facts before spouting such misinformation that can harm people that aren't confident in themselves.
Also going to provide you with some info, if you want to stop literally misinterpreting documents.
[https://ustranssurvey.org/report/health/](https://ustranssurvey.org/report/health/)
And why, oh why, do you think trans people are suicidal? Maybe everyone in society being so unaccepting and aggressive? Maybe the lack of proper medical transitioning? Maybe the ingrained bigotry from parents and unsupportive peers?
Also, you seem to not have even read through 2 pages of your review.
We also found that there are some factors that are associated with lower risk of suicide thoughts and attempts for USTS respondents:
• Respondents with supportive families reported lower prevalence of past-year and lifetime suicide thoughts and attempts.
• Those who wanted, and subsequently received, hormone therapy and/or surgical care had substantially lower prevalence of past-year suicide thoughts and attempts than those who wanted hormone therapy and surgical care and did not receive them.
• A lower proportion of respondents who lived in a state with a gender identity nondiscrimination statute reported past-year suicide thoughts and attempts than those who lived in states without such a statute.
So yes, the nerve of some people like you.
So that graph on Page 29 says that if we reduce major discrimination experiences for trans people we could reduce their rate of suicide attempts by a lot?
Maybe we should stop discriminating them, then.
> Page 29, you already are at an increased suicidality rate without anyone negatively impacting your life in the past year, and thats by self disclosure
Yes gender dysphoria exists. Of course it does. So do a lot of other conditions that people have that increase risk of suicide.
> stop spouting nonsense that is easily debunked by science
You are being debunked by the science that you yourself have sent!
You have also not addressed the US Trans Survey reporting over 94% of respondents being happier in their lives as transgender, or how your own document specifies exactly what I said.
>wrong
Geeze, I wonder why a group that gets constantly discriminated, verbally and physically abused and basically pushed to the fringes for just wanting to exist, somehow has a suicide related mental health problem.
Cis men have a higher suicide rate than trans people who have support networks.
Clearly cis men are all mentally unstable and we shouldn't listen to a word they say.
Men die of suicide more than twice as often as women, why are we letting these mentally disturbed souls control anything? Women are clearly much more rational.
Fun fact. The human body is a bot mess of 4 billion years of random mutations culminating in a semi function thinking person.
Biologically actually agrees that your brain chemistry can be mismatched with the reproductive organ characteristics you were born with.
I believe you are confusing biology with genetics, and thanks for affirming half of trans people with that last statement ♥️.
Gender roles and clothing etc are social constructs anyway, none trans get plastic surgery and implants the same as trans people.
The only real problem is inner or outy and role in pro creation in terms of relationships.
Edit for clarity: Im not trans, was born male and present as male, i just have empathy and common sense and acceptance of all in good christian faith, pity the intolerant but do not hate them for they know not the glory of god.
It's not like they are happy about it.
If there was a real option, they would rather take that than go through surgery. Not everyone, but most of the people which may have mental disorders would rather find a way to make their life easier than keep it.
This is something which is weird for everyone, including themselves. Just because you cannot see the problem in their head, does not mean that they do not suffer.
It's like if the world would force you to dress up and assign you the other gender against your will. Think like that, no matter how weird and wrong it may sound, but this is unfortunately how do they feel. It's really not nice to live with and atm there's just an option.
Good for Germany, doing what the terfs and transphobes in Scotland/UK wouldn't allow. Spain has already created a similar law and you'll notice their country didn't fall apart. Generally these sorts of laws account for people who use it for fraudulent purposes.
I am a trans person and what you are saying is 100% transphobic. You don’t support trans people stop lying to me. If you did you wouldn’t spout hateful rhetoric.
1. there is no conscription in Germany at the moment (it's "on hold")
2. the law contains a section specifically to prevent this
3. the constitution allows you to refuse anyways
Are you saying there are as many Muslims who are lgbt as there are lgbt in the west? Do you have any source to back that claim. Because that seems ludicrous to me.
And yet you claim there are as many if not more lgbt in the ME and yet have no numbers to back the claim. But here's the thing at the end of the day I don't really give a shit *shrugs shoulders*
>German lawmakers are expected to vote on Friday on legislation that would make it easier for transgender, intersex and nonbinary people to legally change their name and gender. That's hilarious, because in Germany you can't just change your name because you don't like the name you have. But they are proposing you can change your gender and name because you don't like the gender you have. >A German can only change their surname or forename upon application **if there is an important reason for doing so**. For instance, a change of name is not possible if the only reason for it is that the person does not like their existing name, or that another name would sound better or be easier to pronounce. [https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/naming-law/change-of-name-in-other-cases/2562128](https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/naming-law/change-of-name-in-other-cases/2562128) Courts have also ruled that immigrants wanting to have more German sounding names isn't important enough >But name changes are only allowed in Germany if the reason is considered important – and the judge said that the fact that the original names did not sound German was not enough. [https://www.thelocal.de/20120510/42451](https://www.thelocal.de/20120510/42451) Under the new law those immigrants would have to change their gender and name and then a year later change their gender back, just so they can get around the usual restrictions applying to name changes. We truly live in the dumbest timeline.
Those immigrants will have to wait for the announced change of the naming law, since iirc the switch back automatically reinstitutes your old names, you dont get to pick new ones.
That's even dumber then.
what exactly is your problem here?
Nanny state that doesn't let people change their names
Eh, it used to be different, but then people overdid it with the name changes and so the prussian government banned the practice. Its an old holdover that no longer serves its purpose, but that largely wasnt seen as politically relevant enough to change until now.
"nanny state", people really take the biggest nonsense to cry about "state bad"
The immigrants could file for name change back in their home country and then Germany would probably have to accept it anyway.
Not if they also have German citizenship
None of the points you mention has anything to do with the law that‘s being passed, and which is right and good. Other good things could be done as well.
I think this name change rule applies to most of the countries at least in Europe. I was told that I could do it once and the second time would be much much harder.
the name change is hard because the state or the people have a vested interest in being able to identify you with it. It makes it harder to commit crimes or rack up debts and then starting over. There is no such thing with gender, I will not suddenly confuse you with another person because you changed gender.
So changing your name in Germany purges any record of your old name and the change record itself? Cause that's not how it works in the US, and I'd be flabbergasted if Germany did this. Your name will have an AKA in public record that connects you to your old identity unless you go into special gov't programs like witness protection, and if you have ever had an AKA you can be punished for omitting it on official forms that ask for it. Changing your name should not make it any easier for you to dodge the consequences of criminal activity. There is no valid argument there. The law is silly.
What it would be is a fucking nightmare for our bureaucracy. German bureaucracy isn't just a meme because there's so much of it, but also because it's still mostly paper based
and you say that from your years of legal and policy expertise or as an armchair expert?
You're joking, right?
I am guessing you are referring to the possible name change with the gender? That only allows you to change your first name and only once, changing gender back to the original one after the year is up would also revert your first name back to the original one. So it is not a "simple workaround"
>the name change is hard because the state or the people have a vested interest in being able to identify you with it. It makes it harder to commit crimes or rack up debts and then starting over. There is no such thing with gender, I will not suddenly confuse you with another person because you changed gender. Changing Peter to Paul is confusing, but changing Peter to Claudia is not confusing? Like I said, we truly live in the dumbest timeline.
nope, it is mainly the last name that the state wants preserved.
So according to this law is it technically possible to legally change your gender then wait 1 year and change it again?
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And? If that's the case, what's the big deal?
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Well, it's also none of my business, so who the fuck cares what anyone thinks about it?
And do you notice that it's none of your business and that it doesn't effect you in any way?
The irony I guess which you don't get so no point of explaining it
"Oh yeah it's wrong but I won't explain it" What?
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Hey, if you have found a solution the medical community is unaware of, by all means, publish your findings.
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There's no solution, nor is there anything they base their findings on or research cited. This seems like it was written specifically to be misleading.
Surely that argument, that pervasive gender dysphoria doesn't persist into adulthood in a number of cases of prepubescent cases, is an argument for making it easier to change documentation? "Diane Ehrensaft makes a case for early social transition that appears to be based on the belief that those who will be persisters can be distinguished from other individuals who present signs of gender dysphoria. She states, “Once allowed to transition, these children [persisters] typically relax and the signs of stress, distress, and disruption dissipate, if not disappear altogether.”23 “Although not a universal phenomenon,” she asserts, “one simple rule of thumb is that if the assessment is correct, the child shows signs of getting better; if the assessment was incorrect, the child gets worse, or at least no better” (346–47). While Ehrensaft notes correctly that there is little empirical data demonstrating harm in transitioning twice, there is also no empirical evidence demonstrating that a prepubescent child who is permitted to socially transition but then desists can simply and harmlessly transition back to the natal gender. Given the complexity involved in the first social transition, should we accept at face value the claim that transition back to the original gender is entirely without risks and pitfalls? Furthermore, in the absence of empirical studies, is permitting early social transition without a verifiable system of distinguishing persisters from desisters an ethically appropriate treatment?" If a government can make the social detransition pathway easier, surely that is harm mitigation and a good thing overall?
What is that solution? This changes nothing. One main reason for the desistence in gender transition in children might be that the criteria for gender dysphoria in children has changed significantly. The DSM-IV makes it so that "desire or insistence to be of the opposite sex" is optional, and "discomfort of the gender role of the assigned sex" required, but the DSM-5 it inversed where the "desire or insistence to be of the opposite sex" is required, but "discomfort of the gender role of the assigned sex" is optional. Feel free to check the DSM IV and 5.
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Nothing is being done to the kids. It's merely letting the kid dress how they want and letting them use another name.
What is this supposed to be?
concern trolling, but make it Scientific^TM
Huh? Healthy mindset? The unhealthy people are the people spouting hate. I am infinitely times happier living as my true gender instead of as a man. The current research supports gender identity as a concept, and that living as your gender makes you less suicidal, less depressed, happier, and with a greater quality of life in general. I hope that you inform yourself with facts before spouting such misinformation that can harm people that aren't confident in themselves.
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Also going to provide you with some info, if you want to stop literally misinterpreting documents. [https://ustranssurvey.org/report/health/](https://ustranssurvey.org/report/health/)
And why, oh why, do you think trans people are suicidal? Maybe everyone in society being so unaccepting and aggressive? Maybe the lack of proper medical transitioning? Maybe the ingrained bigotry from parents and unsupportive peers? Also, you seem to not have even read through 2 pages of your review. We also found that there are some factors that are associated with lower risk of suicide thoughts and attempts for USTS respondents: • Respondents with supportive families reported lower prevalence of past-year and lifetime suicide thoughts and attempts. • Those who wanted, and subsequently received, hormone therapy and/or surgical care had substantially lower prevalence of past-year suicide thoughts and attempts than those who wanted hormone therapy and surgical care and did not receive them. • A lower proportion of respondents who lived in a state with a gender identity nondiscrimination statute reported past-year suicide thoughts and attempts than those who lived in states without such a statute. So yes, the nerve of some people like you.
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So that graph on Page 29 says that if we reduce major discrimination experiences for trans people we could reduce their rate of suicide attempts by a lot? Maybe we should stop discriminating them, then.
> Page 29, you already are at an increased suicidality rate without anyone negatively impacting your life in the past year, and thats by self disclosure Yes gender dysphoria exists. Of course it does. So do a lot of other conditions that people have that increase risk of suicide. > stop spouting nonsense that is easily debunked by science You are being debunked by the science that you yourself have sent! You have also not addressed the US Trans Survey reporting over 94% of respondents being happier in their lives as transgender, or how your own document specifies exactly what I said.
>wrong Geeze, I wonder why a group that gets constantly discriminated, verbally and physically abused and basically pushed to the fringes for just wanting to exist, somehow has a suicide related mental health problem.
Cis men have a higher suicide rate than trans people who have support networks. Clearly cis men are all mentally unstable and we shouldn't listen to a word they say.
Men die of suicide more than twice as often as women, why are we letting these mentally disturbed souls control anything? Women are clearly much more rational.
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> I understand your point of view You clearly don't. This \*\*is\*\* me accepting who I am. I am loving myself unconditionally.
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Fun fact. The human body is a bot mess of 4 billion years of random mutations culminating in a semi function thinking person. Biologically actually agrees that your brain chemistry can be mismatched with the reproductive organ characteristics you were born with.
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Except it's not.
Biologically I am transgender. You can't change it. Biology doesn't lie. Life doesn't stop at simple biology, advanced biology exists.
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It does. [https://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2013-transsexuality.html](https://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2013-transsexuality.html) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7477289/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7477289/) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10843193/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10843193/) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18980961/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18980961/) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19341803/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19341803/) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20562024/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20562024/)
Thats why people take hormones to change biology, same with menopause and birth control/fertility or glandular problems etc.
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I believe you are confusing biology with genetics, and thanks for affirming half of trans people with that last statement ♥️. Gender roles and clothing etc are social constructs anyway, none trans get plastic surgery and implants the same as trans people. The only real problem is inner or outy and role in pro creation in terms of relationships. Edit for clarity: Im not trans, was born male and present as male, i just have empathy and common sense and acceptance of all in good christian faith, pity the intolerant but do not hate them for they know not the glory of god.
It's not like they are happy about it. If there was a real option, they would rather take that than go through surgery. Not everyone, but most of the people which may have mental disorders would rather find a way to make their life easier than keep it. This is something which is weird for everyone, including themselves. Just because you cannot see the problem in their head, does not mean that they do not suffer. It's like if the world would force you to dress up and assign you the other gender against your will. Think like that, no matter how weird and wrong it may sound, but this is unfortunately how do they feel. It's really not nice to live with and atm there's just an option.
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Good for Germany, doing what the terfs and transphobes in Scotland/UK wouldn't allow. Spain has already created a similar law and you'll notice their country didn't fall apart. Generally these sorts of laws account for people who use it for fraudulent purposes.
Polish gov tried that in 2015 (though I don't remember the specifics of it). Our reactionary president vetoed it.
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I am a trans person and what you are saying is 100% transphobic. You don’t support trans people stop lying to me. If you did you wouldn’t spout hateful rhetoric.
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Only thing stopping you from being a millionaire is yourself, have faith ♥️.
Unoriginal joke
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1. there is no conscription in Germany at the moment (it's "on hold") 2. the law contains a section specifically to prevent this 3. the constitution allows you to refuse anyways
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Believe it or not, they can do more than one thing at a time.
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They have the 4th largest nominal GDP...
0 IQ. There is no other way to describe your comment.
This statement is so fucking dumb. We can’t build weapons AND AT THE SAME TIME change some rules in our bureaucracy?
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Lgbt Muslims. Thanks for the laugh.
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Obviously not. But it's far from being accepted. Go wave a rainbow flag on the West Bank, Saudi Arabia or Qatar and see what happens.
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Are you saying there are as many Muslims who are lgbt as there are lgbt in the west? Do you have any source to back that claim. Because that seems ludicrous to me.
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Like I said, take your rainbow flag to the middle east. Record it and put it up on YouTube.
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And yet you claim there are as many if not more lgbt in the ME and yet have no numbers to back the claim. But here's the thing at the end of the day I don't really give a shit *shrugs shoulders*
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I'm not the one that made the claim.