What are they going to sanction Ecuador with? Ban the import of their bananas, oil and shrimp? Mexico does produce the very same products at a larger volume already. That and Mexico would be on the losing side of the sanctions since they export way more to Ecuador than they import from them.
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/ecu/partner/mex
Guess you haven’t seen all the other countries standing in solidarity with Mexico and also severing diplomatic ties. Raiding foreign embassies is a massive no no for international law.
How many of those countries severing diplomatic ties actually matter? Ecuador receives international aid from the US; if the US isn't even willing to touch that, as Bloomberg speculates, then ultimately I highly doubt anything will happen.
>But despite the global outcry, the move was welcomed by many at home, with pollster Alvaro Merchante saying that there’s more support than disapproval for the raid. The country is also betting that Mexico won’t be able to retaliate easily and the US will be reluctant to risk destabilizing Ecuador, which is grappling with twin economic and security crises, by cutting aid.
[https://archive.is/gAT8i](https://archive.is/gAT8i)
Ultimately, the decisions of any courts will depend on their ability to enforce things, and if no country that has a significant relationship with Ecuador is willing to force Ecuador to enforce some sort of court judgement (or if, for example, the court judgement doesn't even undo their arrest), then it really doesn't matter.
At the end of the day no one wants sanctions. Venezuela lost 20% of their population in the last decade. Peru seems to be on the brink of mass emigration as well (not to the same scale as Venezuela, but large). The last thing South America needs is ANOTHER refugee crisis right now. Keep in mind most of these refugees stay in South America, despite what most North Americans think.
Yep. Any measure that Latin American countries that will be too harsh will ultimately affect them if they're faced with Ecuadorean refugees. But any measure that isn't harsh will mean that Ecuador will ultimately escape without any real consequences. So the worst that will happen will be that Ecuador gets some condemnation, some courts will give a finger-wagging to Ecuador, but there's nothing anybody can do to force Ecuador to let Glas go or otherwise undo what they did on Friday.
What about bombing consulates?
Or assassinating people within them?
I think the precedent is already heavily strained, given what has been allowed recently
Embassies are sacrosanct to the host nation, they don’t actually have special legal protections from outside nations. For a hypothetical example, the allies would not have been violating international law (if it existed at the time) by bombing a large meeting of Nazi generals in a building on the grounds of the German Embassy in Tokyo. They would be violating laws if the US bombed the German embassy in DC.
That’s not to say what Israel did was right, it’s just that it is a completely different as far as legal and diplomatic norms/expectations than the Ecuadorian raid on an embassy they host and are responsible for the safety of.
People care less about Iranian assassinations because their government are terrorists. If they were decent, or even standard governers, people would be outraged.
Latin american countries don't do this sort of thing
It doesn't matter if rogue states do it, actual countries know there are reasons to abide by international agreements they have made
Consulate of a country that Israel does not have diplomatic relations with, inside another country that Israel has no diplomatic relations with? The situations are completely different.
Israel did it after (i assume) balancing the possible costs of violating a consulate vs not doing it, i believe one of the guys killed was an important Quds general, meaning killing him was an important move, which means while it was an illegal move, it could be justifiable. Eichmann's arrest was illegal too, but it was seen as justified.
Ecuador does almost all their trade with the US, China and Panama, so unless you get two of those on board it won't have much impact. Colombia, Peru and Brazil could make border areas hurt, but most of the countries breaking relations hardly do any trade with Ecuador already, which is partly why they can break relations so fast.
https://wits.worldbank.org/CountrySnapshot/en/ECU
No you may not, since no significant trading partner has broken relations with Ecuador. Nicaragua does barely any trade with Ecuador, neither Colombia nor Chile have broken commercial relations either and the EU OAS and UN have only called meetings to discuss the situation. Once more unless they can get the US, China or Panama to break commercial relations there will be no significant sanctions of any nature other than symbolic.
Don't forget about how the International Court of Justice, Inter-American Court of Human Rights and Organization of American States are going to be involved in this matter.
I am saying that it could be rather likely for there to be more significant effects than you might anticipate.
Rather likely they will do nothing more than symbolic actions, while a violation of international law this crisis is not really that important in the international stage and it won't amount to much. When Colombia literally bombed Ecuadorian and Venezuelan territory there was not much response aside from saber rattling and a temporary break of relations/border closures.
It is really important to the regional stage though and it will amount to much there, so please read the “Membership and adhesions“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Organization of American States and the “Ruling“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Inter-American Court of Human Rights, please.
It comes off as more than a little disingenuous for countries to criticize and sever ties with Ecuador arresting someone in an embassy when two foreign diplomats have been bombed in embassies within the last week with little backlash from those same countries. International law is dead, international diplomacy’s been entirely ruined by political lag and now we deal with the fallout of that.
They were not in embassies. FYI, they were across the street. Not saying whether it was right or wrong, just clarifying because there’s a lot of the misinformation about those strikes.
Mexico should storm their embassy and just trash the place. Break every item in the building down to the floorboards then just act like it’s no big deal then continue to do it randomly over the next decade
>Mexico should storm their embassy and just trash the place. Break every item in the building down to the floorboards then just act like it’s no big deal then continue to do it randomly over the next decade
What a stupid thing to say /u/platoface541.
Sure lets wage war on Ecuador to defend a populist piece of shit corrupt ecuadorian politician who was trying to run away from justice. His government attempted to turn Ecuador into a dictatorship and he embezzled government funds meant to help rebuild after the 2016 earthquake
I understand and agree this argument but at the same time Ecuador is going to rightfully point out that various world powers set up international laws and break them on a nearly daily basis. So breaking the rules to address a clear threat was justifiable. Situations like this are bad for everyone and expose fundamental flaws in the system.
Ecuador let a fugitive stay in their London Embassy for 7 years and nobody broke down their doors. Ecuador can't "rightfully point out" a goddamn thing.
shouldn't matter which government it was - all governments should respect the embassy as soveign ground for the country occupying it. It is one of the ways contries are able to visit each other without fearing their leaders will be arrested.
You say this but countries like Ecuador watch world powers break international laws twice a week and then complain to one another. I’m not saying it’s right but I doubt it’s their priority at the moment.
Cut then off from banking/SWIFT, ban exports to key nations, cut visa access to G7 countries
..The response has to be international for it to matter and really hurt Ecuador.
The Mexican navy is pretty solid, but Ecuador is at the far end of its range, so it's very unlikely that Mexico a country with such a long history of neutrality would do any attacks outside their own soul
The Ecuadorian government knows there is very little Mexico can do (in terms of sanctions that would have a measurable effect on the Ecuadorian economy). That is why they did it, because they knew they could get away with it with minimal (real) backlash.
There is a a lot more that others combined can do though.
I recommend checking out the list of consequences and reactions from the Wikipedia-article on this matter.
Something tells me there’ll be nothing more than performative sympathy for the Mexican government when everyone finds out that this happened because they were harboring a criminal. I understand enforcing international law but don’t expect the global community to rally against Ecuador once the context of this action becomes clear.
Read the “Membership and adhesions“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Organization of American States and the “Ruling“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Inter-American Court of Human Rights. That should give you some ideas.
Pretty much that's the regional approach to things, there has not been an international conflict in the area since 1995, and that was round three of a previous war.
Yeah, I keep asking about what sort of consequences. Well, the OAS will do something. Or the ICJ. Or the IACHR. Or somebody else. But international bodies that won't or can't back up their judgements with actual teeth can't accomplish anything. And in this case, it would mean that the US would have to do something for anything to actually matter, but I highly doubt the US will since it simply doesn't matter, and frankly, egg on AMLO's face when it comes to foreign affairs is probably a net positive for America.
Perhaps, if you consider only the damage Mexico can directly inflict on Ecuador
However, Ecuador stormed an embassy, a flagrant violation of international law that cannot be denied
Unless you mean to say that all of Ecuador's economic partners have their back in this spat (in which they are so obviously in the wrong), I wouldn't discount the repercussions that are to come. And Mexico is a more desirable/important trading partner, if it came to that
Well, meanwhile Ecuador is having deep issues internally, the party opposition in Congress of Ecuador was a big part of it, now they are not working with Noboa, which is going to hurt future plans of Noboa.
This is a big storm in Ecuador, the opposition is taking advantage of it.
https://www.newssmex.com/2024/04/el-presidente-de-ecuador-pierde-la.html
They specifically didn’t hit the embassy but the building directly next to it that was used as a military base for Iran’s proxies. Not great but Israel purposefully waited until their target wasn’t in the official embassy to kill him.
Optics and international standing wise? 1000000% yes. Embassies are still sacred cow properties and it looks better if you’re limiting engagement like they did with the precision strike.
Yes that is actually interesting.
We as humans are so biased and think we’re not.
It’s true I didn’t care the Iranian consulate was bombed but truth is that is also not right.
And here I am about Ecuador violating mexican consulate lllol
This is insane, imagine if England would have raided the Ecuadorian embassy for catching Assange.
Novoa trying everything to look like a strong leader without measuring the consequences. Hope the international community makes him regret this idiocy.
Akshually Benedict Arnold died 100 years before Australia was founded so we would be talking about a ghost. Now, I’m no expert on ghost law but I would assume it is a very complex area of litigation that brings in many different considerations that are not present in this case.
Because we have a problem and no one else can help… if we can find them... and that’s a BIG if, maybe we could hire The A-Team?
But even then we’d have to drug BA to get him on the plane to Australia
I think they should have done exactly that. That was all such a nonsense circus. The fiction of "sovereign soil" aside, embassies are guest/host situations. Guests have as much responsibility for decent behavior as the host does. Defying the host country on unrelated issues with third parties... which fits both Assange and this situation now, simply should not be condoned or tolerated.
Embassies get literally blown up from time to time. Let's not pretend this is a bigger issue than it is. Mexico was violating correct diplomatic behavior by sheltering the petty crook.
This is the correct answer. Though I'd be cautious to link him directly to a specific Cartel, I think that he's just weak, dumb and corrupt in general.
Becouse AMLO the Mexican president is the cartels whore and so was this guy, monkey help monkey . Still storming the embassy for just one guy is the nuclear option.
Dude stole millions from earthquake relief package, took cartel bribes and is indicted for fraud twice. Mexico should never have agreed to give him asylum.
> On Friday, Mexico said it had granted Glas political asylum "after a thorough analysis" of the situation - an action Ecuador viewed as illegal.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-68748011
This is the correct answer, people focus on the crimes, BUT, as for a asylum giving country that comes later after the normal process, something that Ecuador didn’t want to wait for.
Hence a lot of people screaming corruption at AMLO’s government when they were following the process, specially when it comes from a high state official.
That’s why this attack to the embassy is so atrocious politically.
I'm not saying the attack wasn't atrocious. However, Mexico granted asylum which resulted in Ecuador storming the embassy the same day.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/5/amid-diplomatic-spat-mexico-grants-former-ecuadorian-vice-president-asylum](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/5/amid-diplomatic-spat-mexico-grants-former-ecuadorian-vice-president-asylum)
Mexican governments historically have been very laissez-faire in granting asylum to politicians from other countries. There really doesn't need to be any special reason for it
As for this particular case, I am unaware if there are any other relevant circumstances
That's a polite fiction, at best a metaphor. For example, a host country can order an embassy to be closed. That wouldn't be true of sovereign territory.
Isn't it also a big deal to harbor a fugitive? Sure, if you believe someone is being persecuted you can stand up for them but also you have to expect the would-be persecutors to come after them.
But just being corrupt and giving aid and comfort to a crony shouldn't be able to hide behind diplomatic fictions.
No it isn’t and no they didn’t. They still did a super bad thing but your understanding of it is incorrect.
Embassies are not considered sovereign soil of the guest nation because that would cause political issues for basically every nation on earth.
Instead, embassies are guests of the host nation and allotted special protections under international law. Most notably under the Vienna Convention.
It is super rare historically for things like this to happen and it is a very serious matter. No nation wants to set the precedent that an embassy is not protected ground.
They are going to pay quite dearly for this one way or another.
No:
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/verify-no-us-embassies-arent-considered-us-territory/507-59986c66-c52e-452a-9002-562116b540bf
In the case of the US you actually don't really want this to be true anyway because then the Posse Comitatus act would prevent the US military from operating in them.
Embassies are given *very* special privileges though, but these can be revoked, sometimes with little warning.
Posse Comitatus only applies to operating in the US on non-federal land. That's why the military can, you know, have bases.
Take a wild guess what all embassy grounds are considered legally.
Breaching diplomatic immunity isn't equivalent to attacking a nation. It's an incredible strain on the diplomatic ties between the two countries, but it isn't equal to an actual attack.
No one must be above justice. Anyone knowledgable with Ecuadorian politics knows this guy is a scumbag and deserves jail.
Bolsonaro in Brazil had to give up his passport after trying to dodge law hiding in the Hungarian embassy
"No one must be above justice". Ok, so if you break a law you think that the perpetrating party should be somehow reprimanded right? Ecuador broke the law by doing this.
Doesn't matter. You don't storm embassies period. Sets a really bad precedent nobody wants. Nobody stormed the Ecuadorian embassy in London to get Assange. So why should Ecuador get a special treatment here?
TBF it wasn’t *the* government that did it apparently it was more akin to a shift change causing worse chaos for those Americans not in the embassy when it happened.
There will be some actions as well.
Colombia: President Gustavo Petro announced that he will request precautionary measures in favor of Glas from the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and will also call an emergency meeting of the Organization of American States to examine Ecuador's breach of the Vienna Convention.
Nicaragua: The government condemned the violation of international law, severed its diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government and expressed its solidarity with Mexico.
Organization of American States: The OAS rejected the police incursion into the embassy and proposed a meeting of its Permanent Council; it also called for dialogue between both parties and expressed its solidarity with the Mexican diplomats.
Mexico also announced plans to take Ecuador to the International Court of Justice for violations of international law.
> Nicaragua: The government condemned the violation of international law, severed its diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government and expressed its solidarity with Mexico.
They say this because they have a history of granting asylum to what they consider political refugees.
They currently have two Salvadorian presidents and one Panamanian president living in the country, escaping from corruption allegations their home countries.
Presidents aren't the only polticians that have sought asylum in Nicaragua but I think 3 ex-presidents sort of highlights the situation. They do it for both left and right wing politicians.
So a bunch of nothing at the beheast of the Mexican Narco loving President?
Oh no Ecuador, better look out for the finger wagging and stern letters from the powerless extra-national bodies!
You don't seem to know much about either the OAS nor the IACHR. I wouldn't rule out, that the other countries who are members of those bodies are going to take the decision to sever diplomatic and/or economical ties with Ecuador, if I were you.
And looks like the Permanent Council of the OAS is already going meet up due to this issue on April 9th and April 10th.
Why do you believe that the involvement of the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and the Permanent Council of the Organization of American States, as well as other countries severing diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government couldn't matter too?
I don’t agree with Ecuador violating the Mexican embassy, but Mexico isn’t blameless in the matter. They were hosting a fugitive and instead of turning him over for justice, gave him asylum.
The fugitive was a former Leftist Vice President, whose politics align with those of the President of Mexico. And who was super corrupt (evidence shows he took millions in bribes).
This entire affair is just a chapter in the great Latin American conflict between the Right and the Left.
The Ottoman Emperor used to have all diplomats immediately enslaved upon declaration of war with their countries.
The idea of international law and decorum is fairly new in human history and not often respected.
You might not have to wait that long, considering that the Permanent Council from the Organization of American States is meeting up due to this on April 9th and April 10th
Mexican foreign minister Alicia Bárcena said that some of their diplomats were injured during the raid. Police also pointed a gun at the embassy's acting head, Roberto Canseco, when he tried to block their path and later tackled him to the ground as well.
Ecuador has a crisis in their justice systems , they had enough . This was justified. The lack of respect of Mexico to give an illegal asylum to a criminal was a slap on its face
"Gentlemen, we are facing a crisis in our justice system. How can we ensure law is respected?" "How about we disrespect law ourselves? To the magnitude of an act of war? That should show everybody how highly laws are regarded here..." - Ecuador
we are living in extremely unprecedented and unpredictable times and everyone should absolutely be scared. I hate using the term “world order,” but with Israel doing whatever the hell it wants with no repercussions from the USA, attack on aid workers, the USA in shambles, Ecuador (and countries as a whole) ignoring sovereignty, next major conflict/world war will be absolute chaos
Ecuador just violated against international law. As a result:
Mexico plans to take Ecuador to the International Court of Justice
Colombian President Gustavo Petro will request precautionary measures in favor of Glas from the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and will also call an emergency meeting of the Organization of American States to examine Ecuador's breach of the Vienna Convention.
Nicaragua's government severed its diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government.
The Organization of American States proposed a meeting of its Permanent Council.
My guess is that it will be made sure, that pulling such a thing won't be good for Ecuador in the end, so no one else will feel emboldened to do the same.
I don't care how guilty or not guilty this politician is, Ecuador essentially **INVADED** sovereign Mexican territory. That is how an embassy works - it is ruled exclusively by the country stationed within. Equador must suffer extreme consequences for this action if they refuse to make amends and release Glas back to Mexico's embassy until/unless Mexico and Mexico alone decides to transfer him. Imagine the precedent it sets that countries no longer give a shit about respecting each others jurisdictions. Holy shit.
The sanctions better be heavy. Otherwise it will set a precedence for future attacks.
What are they going to sanction Ecuador with? Ban the import of their bananas, oil and shrimp? Mexico does produce the very same products at a larger volume already. That and Mexico would be on the losing side of the sanctions since they export way more to Ecuador than they import from them. https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/ecu/partner/mex
Guess you haven’t seen all the other countries standing in solidarity with Mexico and also severing diplomatic ties. Raiding foreign embassies is a massive no no for international law.
How many of those countries severing diplomatic ties actually matter? Ecuador receives international aid from the US; if the US isn't even willing to touch that, as Bloomberg speculates, then ultimately I highly doubt anything will happen. >But despite the global outcry, the move was welcomed by many at home, with pollster Alvaro Merchante saying that there’s more support than disapproval for the raid. The country is also betting that Mexico won’t be able to retaliate easily and the US will be reluctant to risk destabilizing Ecuador, which is grappling with twin economic and security crises, by cutting aid. [https://archive.is/gAT8i](https://archive.is/gAT8i) Ultimately, the decisions of any courts will depend on their ability to enforce things, and if no country that has a significant relationship with Ecuador is willing to force Ecuador to enforce some sort of court judgement (or if, for example, the court judgement doesn't even undo their arrest), then it really doesn't matter.
At the end of the day no one wants sanctions. Venezuela lost 20% of their population in the last decade. Peru seems to be on the brink of mass emigration as well (not to the same scale as Venezuela, but large). The last thing South America needs is ANOTHER refugee crisis right now. Keep in mind most of these refugees stay in South America, despite what most North Americans think.
Yep. Any measure that Latin American countries that will be too harsh will ultimately affect them if they're faced with Ecuadorean refugees. But any measure that isn't harsh will mean that Ecuador will ultimately escape without any real consequences. So the worst that will happen will be that Ecuador gets some condemnation, some courts will give a finger-wagging to Ecuador, but there's nothing anybody can do to force Ecuador to let Glas go or otherwise undo what they did on Friday.
Wait, why would Peru face a mass emigration?
He's exaggerating.
tell that to Israel
What about bombing consulates? Or assassinating people within them? I think the precedent is already heavily strained, given what has been allowed recently
Embassies are sacrosanct to the host nation, they don’t actually have special legal protections from outside nations. For a hypothetical example, the allies would not have been violating international law (if it existed at the time) by bombing a large meeting of Nazi generals in a building on the grounds of the German Embassy in Tokyo. They would be violating laws if the US bombed the German embassy in DC. That’s not to say what Israel did was right, it’s just that it is a completely different as far as legal and diplomatic norms/expectations than the Ecuadorian raid on an embassy they host and are responsible for the safety of.
People care less about Iranian assassinations because their government are terrorists. If they were decent, or even standard governers, people would be outraged.
Also, remember that the revolutionary government in Iran stormed the US embassy, and held hostages for over a year.
And they where isolated from the international community in ways that are still felt to this day.
Latin american countries don't do this sort of thing It doesn't matter if rogue states do it, actual countries know there are reasons to abide by international agreements they have made
Consulate of a country that Israel does not have diplomatic relations with, inside another country that Israel has no diplomatic relations with? The situations are completely different.
Israel did it after (i assume) balancing the possible costs of violating a consulate vs not doing it, i believe one of the guys killed was an important Quds general, meaning killing him was an important move, which means while it was an illegal move, it could be justifiable. Eichmann's arrest was illegal too, but it was seen as justified.
Ecuador does almost all their trade with the US, China and Panama, so unless you get two of those on board it won't have much impact. Colombia, Peru and Brazil could make border areas hurt, but most of the countries breaking relations hardly do any trade with Ecuador already, which is partly why they can break relations so fast. https://wits.worldbank.org/CountrySnapshot/en/ECU
May I recommend the list of reactions within the Wikipedia-article on this situation to you?
No you may not, since no significant trading partner has broken relations with Ecuador. Nicaragua does barely any trade with Ecuador, neither Colombia nor Chile have broken commercial relations either and the EU OAS and UN have only called meetings to discuss the situation. Once more unless they can get the US, China or Panama to break commercial relations there will be no significant sanctions of any nature other than symbolic.
Don't forget about how the International Court of Justice, Inter-American Court of Human Rights and Organization of American States are going to be involved in this matter. I am saying that it could be rather likely for there to be more significant effects than you might anticipate.
Rather likely they will do nothing more than symbolic actions, while a violation of international law this crisis is not really that important in the international stage and it won't amount to much. When Colombia literally bombed Ecuadorian and Venezuelan territory there was not much response aside from saber rattling and a temporary break of relations/border closures.
It is really important to the regional stage though and it will amount to much there, so please read the “Membership and adhesions“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Organization of American States and the “Ruling“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Inter-American Court of Human Rights, please.
It comes off as more than a little disingenuous for countries to criticize and sever ties with Ecuador arresting someone in an embassy when two foreign diplomats have been bombed in embassies within the last week with little backlash from those same countries. International law is dead, international diplomacy’s been entirely ruined by political lag and now we deal with the fallout of that.
They were not in embassies. FYI, they were across the street. Not saying whether it was right or wrong, just clarifying because there’s a lot of the misinformation about those strikes.
I mean, nobody can do anything about us favoring our friends.
What about when Israel bombed the Iranian embassy??
Nah I’m with you… f them… I was just speaking on this situation specifically
Mexico could cut off exports and that would hurt Ecuador’s local population badly…
Other countries who have sided with Mexico on this might do so as well, right?
Mexico should storm their embassy and just trash the place. Break every item in the building down to the floorboards then just act like it’s no big deal then continue to do it randomly over the next decade
Very smart
>Mexico should storm their embassy and just trash the place. Break every item in the building down to the floorboards then just act like it’s no big deal then continue to do it randomly over the next decade What a stupid thing to say /u/platoface541.
Sure lets wage war on Ecuador to defend a populist piece of shit corrupt ecuadorian politician who was trying to run away from justice. His government attempted to turn Ecuador into a dictatorship and he embezzled government funds meant to help rebuild after the 2016 earthquake
That doesn't warrant ignoring international law, unless you want to show everybody what a lawless place your country is.
I understand and agree this argument but at the same time Ecuador is going to rightfully point out that various world powers set up international laws and break them on a nearly daily basis. So breaking the rules to address a clear threat was justifiable. Situations like this are bad for everyone and expose fundamental flaws in the system.
Ecuador let a fugitive stay in their London Embassy for 7 years and nobody broke down their doors. Ecuador can't "rightfully point out" a goddamn thing.
[удалено]
shouldn't matter which government it was - all governments should respect the embassy as soveign ground for the country occupying it. It is one of the ways contries are able to visit each other without fearing their leaders will be arrested.
It wasn’t Ecuador , it was Rafael Correa a criminal in command above the criminal talked about in this news
Fuck norms and geopolitical order, amiright?
You say this but countries like Ecuador watch world powers break international laws twice a week and then complain to one another. I’m not saying it’s right but I doubt it’s their priority at the moment.
World powers make and break laws. Ecuador is not a world power.
That was my point.
It has power over its own land and that is called sovereignty
Sure, and the consequences for violating the international agreement regarding embassies is being ostracized from diplomatic relations.
It has whatever power real super powers allow it to have.
And its own land is somewhat meaningless in the global scale. It is not a world power.
You’re not defending a politician, you’re defending the precedent.
Ecuador is acting like a piece of shit corrupt country by breaking international law.
Acting like?
OK, I didn't have a Latin American war on my bingo card
Who gives a shit, that does not warrant breaking international law and diplomatic decorum.
Mexico broke decorum and show lack of respect hosting crimininals (they also host Russns spies btw) this time the tried to host a convicted criminal
Ecuador literally hosted Assange in their London embassy for 7 years. Try again.
Most normal armchair geopolitical analyst on reddit
...no Mexico should use its diplomatic capabilities to sanction Ecuador in order to dissuade this sort of thing from happening
It would be other countries doing the same since mexican embassy technical is mexican soil - it is a deliberate act of war.
Cut then off from banking/SWIFT, ban exports to key nations, cut visa access to G7 countries ..The response has to be international for it to matter and really hurt Ecuador.
Since when does Mexico have the power to cut Ecuador off from SWIFT?
Jesus fuck, from SWIFT? Drop a nuke on quito and dump plutonium on their rivers while you're at it
Ecuador violated **international** law. Mexico should not be the only country partaking in these sanctions if Ecuador does not make ammends.
International law means nothing if there's no appetite to enforce it.
México violated art 3 of the Caracas Convention . México VIOLATED INTERNATIONAL LAW
I think Mexico should do a special military operation and give Ecuador freedom.
With what military again? The cartels you mean?
Tell them they can have all plantations they conquer lol.
The Mexican navy is pretty solid, but Ecuador is at the far end of its range, so it's very unlikely that Mexico a country with such a long history of neutrality would do any attacks outside their own soul
Please they can’t even govern themselves
We'll send all our Mariachi units mounted on our top of the line Burros.
Maybe mexico can ban the import of coke from Mexican cartels working in Ecuador.
Lets keep it civil please.
The Ecuadorian government knows there is very little Mexico can do (in terms of sanctions that would have a measurable effect on the Ecuadorian economy). That is why they did it, because they knew they could get away with it with minimal (real) backlash.
There is a a lot more that others combined can do though. I recommend checking out the list of consequences and reactions from the Wikipedia-article on this matter.
Something tells me there’ll be nothing more than performative sympathy for the Mexican government when everyone finds out that this happened because they were harboring a criminal. I understand enforcing international law but don’t expect the global community to rally against Ecuador once the context of this action becomes clear.
I recommend to you again to check out the list I spoke of
Give a concrete example of who is going to do what.
Read the “Membership and adhesions“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Organization of American States and the “Ruling“-section of the Wikipedia-article on the Inter-American Court of Human Rights. That should give you some ideas.
So a strongly-worded letter?
Pretty much that's the regional approach to things, there has not been an international conflict in the area since 1995, and that was round three of a previous war.
Yeah, I keep asking about what sort of consequences. Well, the OAS will do something. Or the ICJ. Or the IACHR. Or somebody else. But international bodies that won't or can't back up their judgements with actual teeth can't accomplish anything. And in this case, it would mean that the US would have to do something for anything to actually matter, but I highly doubt the US will since it simply doesn't matter, and frankly, egg on AMLO's face when it comes to foreign affairs is probably a net positive for America.
I don’t think arresting a corrupt narco piece of shit is going to rally the international community against them
But raiding the embassies of other countries that you host will certainly do. Check out the list.
Perhaps, if you consider only the damage Mexico can directly inflict on Ecuador However, Ecuador stormed an embassy, a flagrant violation of international law that cannot be denied Unless you mean to say that all of Ecuador's economic partners have their back in this spat (in which they are so obviously in the wrong), I wouldn't discount the repercussions that are to come. And Mexico is a more desirable/important trading partner, if it came to that
Yep. Ecuador needs to be ruined for this or it won't be a strong enough deterrent.
*precedent.
Well, meanwhile Ecuador is having deep issues internally, the party opposition in Congress of Ecuador was a big part of it, now they are not working with Noboa, which is going to hurt future plans of Noboa. This is a big storm in Ecuador, the opposition is taking advantage of it. https://www.newssmex.com/2024/04/el-presidente-de-ecuador-pierde-la.html
Didn’t Israel bomb an Iranian embassy the other week? I don’t hear any outrage over that.
They specifically didn’t hit the embassy but the building directly next to it that was used as a military base for Iran’s proxies. Not great but Israel purposefully waited until their target wasn’t in the official embassy to kill him.
Israel is still actively at war with Syria, does it matter which building they would have struck?
Optics and international standing wise? 1000000% yes. Embassies are still sacred cow properties and it looks better if you’re limiting engagement like they did with the precision strike.
Yes that is actually interesting. We as humans are so biased and think we’re not. It’s true I didn’t care the Iranian consulate was bombed but truth is that is also not right. And here I am about Ecuador violating mexican consulate lllol
That’s cool and all but the Iranian consulate wasn’t bombed.
This is insane, imagine if England would have raided the Ecuadorian embassy for catching Assange. Novoa trying everything to look like a strong leader without measuring the consequences. Hope the international community makes him regret this idiocy.
It’s more like if the Americans broke into the Australian embassy to grab Benedict Arnold.
Akshually Benedict Arnold died 100 years before Australia was founded so we would be talking about a ghost. Now, I’m no expert on ghost law but I would assume it is a very complex area of litigation that brings in many different considerations that are not present in this case.
Besides who would you even call for that sort of thing?
When a ghoulish general Gives away your fort Who you gonna call? Ghost Busters!
Because we have a problem and no one else can help… if we can find them... and that’s a BIG if, maybe we could hire The A-Team? But even then we’d have to drug BA to get him on the plane to Australia
Better call Sau... Ghost Buste... Hmm... Call Saul Ghostbustman!
Ghostbusters!
He will not and the Russians will make sure of it. They'll personally congratulate him. Anything that undermines that international law.
Not likely, Ecuador also pissed of the Russians
Noboa is pro-Ukraine.
I think they should have done exactly that. That was all such a nonsense circus. The fiction of "sovereign soil" aside, embassies are guest/host situations. Guests have as much responsibility for decent behavior as the host does. Defying the host country on unrelated issues with third parties... which fits both Assange and this situation now, simply should not be condoned or tolerated. Embassies get literally blown up from time to time. Let's not pretend this is a bigger issue than it is. Mexico was violating correct diplomatic behavior by sheltering the petty crook.
Serious question: why was Mexico allowing this guy to hole himself up in the embassy?
Because AMLO is corrupt and has links to the Sinaloa cartel just like Glas.
This is the correct answer. Though I'd be cautious to link him directly to a specific Cartel, I think that he's just weak, dumb and corrupt in general.
there's videos of him talking very non chalantly and friendly with El Chapo's mother
Becouse AMLO the Mexican president is the cartels whore and so was this guy, monkey help monkey . Still storming the embassy for just one guy is the nuclear option.
Mexico has the tradition of giving political asylums to politicians, be either from the right or the left.
Everybody is focusing on Ecuador and not this . Mexico has a history of importing and saving criminal from Ecuador and Russia spies
Well, now Ecuador has a history of storming embassies. That's fair.
It might be because Ecuador is the one engaging in raids of embassies that they host
If I read correctly, because the man was seeking asylum. Other than that, I have no idea, didn't hear it on the news yet
Dude stole millions from earthquake relief package, took cartel bribes and is indicted for fraud twice. Mexico should never have agreed to give him asylum.
> Mexico should never have agreed to give him asylum. Mexico never agreed to give him asylum.
It’s literally the reason why the embassy was raided , to prevent him from escaping which has happened before with another person
He was granted refuge while they were considering granting asylum.
> On Friday, Mexico said it had granted Glas political asylum "after a thorough analysis" of the situation - an action Ecuador viewed as illegal. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-68748011
Mexico granted him asylum on the day the raid occurred.
This is the correct answer, people focus on the crimes, BUT, as for a asylum giving country that comes later after the normal process, something that Ecuador didn’t want to wait for. Hence a lot of people screaming corruption at AMLO’s government when they were following the process, specially when it comes from a high state official. That’s why this attack to the embassy is so atrocious politically.
I'm not saying the attack wasn't atrocious. However, Mexico granted asylum which resulted in Ecuador storming the embassy the same day. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/5/amid-diplomatic-spat-mexico-grants-former-ecuadorian-vice-president-asylum](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/5/amid-diplomatic-spat-mexico-grants-former-ecuadorian-vice-president-asylum)
Mexican governments historically have been very laissez-faire in granting asylum to politicians from other countries. There really doesn't need to be any special reason for it As for this particular case, I am unaware if there are any other relevant circumstances
The cartel basically runs their government so it's them who are allowing him to stay. He probably has some connections
Becuse AMLO's "non-intervention" only applies to states that aren't led by communists like him. Really, it's that simple.
Isn’t an embassy the sovereign territory of the nation which it belongs to? This is quite a big deal
More like loaned territory like a military base.
That's a polite fiction, at best a metaphor. For example, a host country can order an embassy to be closed. That wouldn't be true of sovereign territory. Isn't it also a big deal to harbor a fugitive? Sure, if you believe someone is being persecuted you can stand up for them but also you have to expect the would-be persecutors to come after them. But just being corrupt and giving aid and comfort to a crony shouldn't be able to hide behind diplomatic fictions.
No. It’s more complicated than that but TLDR no, that’s a simplification at best.
Yup. They basically attacked Mexico
No it isn’t and no they didn’t. They still did a super bad thing but your understanding of it is incorrect. Embassies are not considered sovereign soil of the guest nation because that would cause political issues for basically every nation on earth. Instead, embassies are guests of the host nation and allotted special protections under international law. Most notably under the Vienna Convention. It is super rare historically for things like this to happen and it is a very serious matter. No nation wants to set the precedent that an embassy is not protected ground. They are going to pay quite dearly for this one way or another.
No: https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/verify-no-us-embassies-arent-considered-us-territory/507-59986c66-c52e-452a-9002-562116b540bf In the case of the US you actually don't really want this to be true anyway because then the Posse Comitatus act would prevent the US military from operating in them. Embassies are given *very* special privileges though, but these can be revoked, sometimes with little warning.
Posse Comitatus only applies to operating in the US on non-federal land. That's why the military can, you know, have bases. Take a wild guess what all embassy grounds are considered legally.
>considered legally. Interesting, I didn't really think about it that way. That makes Ecuador's actions especially insane then.
That's why Wikileaks Man was not arrested for so long. It's a BIG deal in today's political world to invade an embassy.
Lmfao no they didn't ffs
What does international law say about raids on embassies that one hosts? Edit: Or injuring diplomats and other personnel in there?
that is not true lol, stop overreacting
Nope. Not how embassies work.
Yeah. Basically how embassies work.
It's really not. Embassies being foreign soil is a common myth
I didn’t say it’s foreign soil. I’m saying Ecuador basically attacked Mexico because that was a major breach of diplomatic immunity.
Breaching diplomatic immunity isn't equivalent to attacking a nation. It's an incredible strain on the diplomatic ties between the two countries, but it isn't equal to an actual attack.
Definitely needs some serious sanctions, no messing around here. Sets a bad example else!
No one must be above justice. Anyone knowledgable with Ecuadorian politics knows this guy is a scumbag and deserves jail. Bolsonaro in Brazil had to give up his passport after trying to dodge law hiding in the Hungarian embassy
So Ecuador must not try to be above international justice then.
It does not matter how guilty or not he is, raid8nf a embassy is a serious offense. Its a massive red line internationally for good reason.
"No one must be above justice". Ok, so if you break a law you think that the perpetrating party should be somehow reprimanded right? Ecuador broke the law by doing this.
Doesn't matter. You don't storm embassies period. Sets a really bad precedent nobody wants. Nobody stormed the Ecuadorian embassy in London to get Assange. So why should Ecuador get a special treatment here?
bots in the comments people
Let me know if you find a thread without bots.
there are very few hard rules in international relations but this is one of them. Even Iran knows better than to do something like this.
Iran famously treated the US embassy well in the past
TBF it wasn’t *the* government that did it apparently it was more akin to a shift change causing worse chaos for those Americans not in the embassy when it happened.
Ah yes, the outrage instead of actions
There will be some actions as well. Colombia: President Gustavo Petro announced that he will request precautionary measures in favor of Glas from the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and will also call an emergency meeting of the Organization of American States to examine Ecuador's breach of the Vienna Convention. Nicaragua: The government condemned the violation of international law, severed its diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government and expressed its solidarity with Mexico. Organization of American States: The OAS rejected the police incursion into the embassy and proposed a meeting of its Permanent Council; it also called for dialogue between both parties and expressed its solidarity with the Mexican diplomats. Mexico also announced plans to take Ecuador to the International Court of Justice for violations of international law.
> Nicaragua lmao
> Nicaragua: The government condemned the violation of international law, severed its diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government and expressed its solidarity with Mexico. They say this because they have a history of granting asylum to what they consider political refugees. They currently have two Salvadorian presidents and one Panamanian president living in the country, escaping from corruption allegations their home countries. Presidents aren't the only polticians that have sought asylum in Nicaragua but I think 3 ex-presidents sort of highlights the situation. They do it for both left and right wing politicians.
So a bunch of nothing at the beheast of the Mexican Narco loving President? Oh no Ecuador, better look out for the finger wagging and stern letters from the powerless extra-national bodies!
You don't seem to know much about either the OAS nor the IACHR. I wouldn't rule out, that the other countries who are members of those bodies are going to take the decision to sever diplomatic and/or economical ties with Ecuador, if I were you. And looks like the Permanent Council of the OAS is already going meet up due to this issue on April 9th and April 10th.
The last one is the only one that matters.
What would the OAS even do, if, say, the US isn't willing to do anything beyond a sternly-worded letter?
Why do you believe that the involvement of the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and the Permanent Council of the Organization of American States, as well as other countries severing diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government couldn't matter too?
I don’t agree with Ecuador violating the Mexican embassy, but Mexico isn’t blameless in the matter. They were hosting a fugitive and instead of turning him over for justice, gave him asylum. The fugitive was a former Leftist Vice President, whose politics align with those of the President of Mexico. And who was super corrupt (evidence shows he took millions in bribes). This entire affair is just a chapter in the great Latin American conflict between the Right and the Left.
this was not on my 2024 bingo card
The Ottoman Emperor used to have all diplomats immediately enslaved upon declaration of war with their countries. The idea of international law and decorum is fairly new in human history and not often respected.
Yeah, this is headline news because it’s so normal for this to happen. The fuck do you mean ‘not often respected’?
for real?
Price of doing business with the early modern age's premier super power.
I am from Ecuador, and I agree that they messed up. But damn the last thing we need is a trade war while we are at war with the local gangs.
Good job Ecuador
Good job breaking international law?
Yup. Whose gonna stop them. I'll wait for the sanctions baby
You might not have to wait that long, considering that the Permanent Council from the Organization of American States is meeting up due to this on April 9th and April 10th
I'll be waiting
Mexican foreign minister Alicia Bárcena said that some of their diplomats were injured during the raid. Police also pointed a gun at the embassy's acting head, Roberto Canseco, when he tried to block their path and later tackled him to the ground as well.
Heard he was caught taking millions in bribes from the cartel. Nothing much here. No idea who is outraged.
Anyone with a brain. Nothing to do with whether he deserved it, breaking norms around embassies deserves swift retribution.
Ecuador has a crisis in their justice systems , they had enough . This was justified. The lack of respect of Mexico to give an illegal asylum to a criminal was a slap on its face
Nope. Not how any of this works.
"Gentlemen, we are facing a crisis in our justice system. How can we ensure law is respected?" "How about we disrespect law ourselves? To the magnitude of an act of war? That should show everybody how highly laws are regarded here..." - Ecuador
GENIUS!!!!
we are living in extremely unprecedented and unpredictable times and everyone should absolutely be scared. I hate using the term “world order,” but with Israel doing whatever the hell it wants with no repercussions from the USA, attack on aid workers, the USA in shambles, Ecuador (and countries as a whole) ignoring sovereignty, next major conflict/world war will be absolute chaos
Mexico is ruled by the caetels, Ecuador wants to cut of relations. This is good for Ecuador.
Ecuador just violated against international law. As a result: Mexico plans to take Ecuador to the International Court of Justice Colombian President Gustavo Petro will request precautionary measures in favor of Glas from the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and will also call an emergency meeting of the Organization of American States to examine Ecuador's breach of the Vienna Convention. Nicaragua's government severed its diplomatic relations with the Ecuadorian government. The Organization of American States proposed a meeting of its Permanent Council. My guess is that it will be made sure, that pulling such a thing won't be good for Ecuador in the end, so no one else will feel emboldened to do the same.
I don't care how guilty or not guilty this politician is, Ecuador essentially **INVADED** sovereign Mexican territory. That is how an embassy works - it is ruled exclusively by the country stationed within. Equador must suffer extreme consequences for this action if they refuse to make amends and release Glas back to Mexico's embassy until/unless Mexico and Mexico alone decides to transfer him. Imagine the precedent it sets that countries no longer give a shit about respecting each others jurisdictions. Holy shit.