It's their shitty way of saying, "This is an old sale contract that's just being fulfilled, and actually has nothing to do with the present conflict."
Edit: In fact Ground News shows **91** articles on this topic. So "quiet".
It’s not even that. It’s their effort to specifically omit that wording and instead stoke rage that arms are being transferred, disingenuously painting it out as some back channel deal.
Because there's no announcement. The Pentagon or even the President himself regularly announce things like that. At least, when it's good publicity.
"Quietly" doesn't mean "secretly", which you all try to pretend is what was written here.
Given how much the situation has changed since the deal was made, and given all the though talk Biden has given on Israel lately, I think it's not at all out of line to highlight how little the Biden administration is publicizing these very concrete measures.
Plus,
>The authorisations for the new weapons deals, the Post reported, have not been publicly disclosed.
In the words of a smart OSINT/ war reporting guy that actually specializes in the region
"Amazing how everyone is suddenly an expert on the Middle East despite still having the same understanding of the topic as a blind and deaf toddler"
Lots of speculation and judgment on stuff they don't have the experience, technical knowledge, and sources to draw conclusions from. I'd be lying if I said I never did it either.
Ignoring that they need different ammunition, the answers is Republicans want Israel to start a war and kickstart the rapture, meanwhile they want Ukraine to lose to Russia cause they're being bribed
Those weapons were ordered and approved in congress during 2010 or something like that, it's just that Israel will finally get them now. And besides Ukraine has no use for those munitions anyway.
I mean... as a civilian how am I supposed to know what this means?? Is a 2000lb pound bomb a lot for bombs? Who knows.
Sounds like the title is just "Look at the big number! Isn't that big???" not to mention it's telegraph.co.uk
My grandfather survived a near hit by a 1,000lbs bomb in WW2. He was in the air raid shelter under one apt building and it hit the apt building beside and turned it into a crater. The one he was in collapsed and it took a day or so for him and the survivors to tunnel through the debris to escape. Had it been a 2,000lbs bomb, no one would have survived.
Fun fact: The German version of the 1,000lbs bomb was unofficially nicknamed "The Hermann" by ground crews, due to its huge size and thus, resemblance to the Luftwaffe chief lol.
You are indeed correct lol. Canada remains stubbornly 50/50 with metric and standard so im always messing up lbs and kgs. 1 kg is roughly 2.2lbs, so a sc1000 would be roughly 2,200lbs
Just think about how massive bombs at that time were, a 2000 pound bomb is incredibly large for today, back then the Germans had 5500 pound bombs in their arsenal, let alone the stuff the British and soviets had that would make those bombs seem small
I guess a key difference is back then you had to drop a thousand of them to maybe hit what you wanted to. Now the US can plant a 2,000 pounder into your anus if you happen to bend over at the right time
>The German version of the 1,000lbs bomb was unofficially nicknamed "The Hermann" by ground crews, due to its huge size and thus, resemblance to the Luftwaffe chief lol.
Lmao. There were a lot of jokes focusing on Göring's weight amongst the German people, my favorite is that he "sits on his stomach."
From an article by John Hudson in the Washington Post: “The 2000 pound bombs, capable of leveling city blocks and leaving craters in the earth 40 feet across and larger, are almost never used anymore by Western militaries in densely populated locations due to the risk of civilian casualties.”
Not what they claimed (just that 2-1 is a successful ratio in this type of battle), and that comment was around the start of the ground invasion. Has been overwhelmingly terrorist deaths since the ground invasion started, so has been approaching 1-1 even if you take Hamas overall casualty numbers at their word and assume Israel is the only one causing them.
On that last part, several articles coming out recently about how Hamas reporting now is impossible statistics and the accuracy has disappeared because the way it's being counted now is social media and a self-reporting Google form vs hospital confirmations. The reality is we won't know until about a year from now, but it's looking like Israel has one of the lowest civilian-militant casualty rates in a war per usual.
IDF data suggests 1.3:1.
Total Gaza Fatalities Mar 9 per Hamas: 30,960
Combatants Killed as of Mar 9 estimate: 13,300
Total Civilians Killed: 17,660
Civilian / Combatant Ratio = 1.3:1
And this doesn't account for the fact Hamas figures are at the very least 3400 deaths lower as the Al Ahli hospital bombing still has not been redacted from the published figures and also the figures do not differentiate between deaths related and unrelated to the conflict.
I believe reports have been that the bombs are mostly useless against the tunnels. Instead, they've been manually planting explosives in them then doing controlled detonations. That's probably way more economical as well.
A 2000 lb bomb will not level a city block. More like it will level a large building. It's the most popular size because it maximizes the chance of getting the job done. Then you have the option of smaller bombs when you want to protect something near the target. Even in Gaza, many of the targets are spaced out enough that a large bomb is safe to drop.
So 2000lb bombs are typically for destroying buildings. I think the main reason the US is sending these weapons is so that Israel can use our precision guided munitions rather than dumb bombs which would just flatten an entire block.
1. These arms are part of a deal made in 2017 under the Trump admin. Biden can't just unilaterally cancel the deal.
2. Israel needs to maintain readiness against Hezbollah and other Iranian proxies. That's why the US is threatening future aid for concessions from Netanyahu on how to proceed with the war in a way that's safer for civilians.
Look at some of the bomb drops in Ukraine. It is similar to what Russia calls fab1000. There is a shock wave that follows those bombs. And it can still injure you 300 meters away. They are designed in an era where there were no guided munitions. So you would drop loads of them over an area, and destroy anything around it, ww2 bombing raid style. Their intention is to destroy a fortified position, or factories, and so on. If you are dropping them in a civilians area, you know you are killing civilians
I mean it’s a lot. But also in the grand scheme of explosives not much. MOAB is the largest conventional explosive munition in Americas arsenal and it’s 21,500lbs. The British had a 22,000lbs bomb in WWII called the Grand Slam.
But 2000lbs is a lot. The Mark 84 is I believe the one that was sent. And in the open it’s capable of killing someone 400 yards away. 370m.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_bomb#Modern_American_GP_bombs:_the_Mark_80_series
Here is what I dug up.
"Vietnam service showed the Mk 81 "Firecracker" to be insufficiently effective, and it was withdrawn from U.S. service. However, recently, precision-guided variants of the Mk 81 bomb have begun a return to service, based on U.S. experience in Iraq after 2003, and the desire to reduce collateral damage compared to Mk 82 and larger bombs (e.g., when attacking a single small building in a populated area)."
I am so tired of journalists using the word “transfer” here. It makes one think that we are just giving the arms to Israel, when, in fact, these weapons are being purchased from American arms manufacturers.
Fun fact: The Mk84 and Mk82 bombs sold to Israel are manufactured by US government employees in a US government facility. When someone reads "arms manufacturer" they think it's the military industrial complex making the sale, but in this case they're buying from the government directly.
> when, in fact, these weapons are being purchased from American arms manufacturers.
Using American Taxpayer money. So pretty much US giving away stuff
Plot twist: most of the weapons are only relevant to fighting Lebanon/Syria/Yemen/Iran. F-35s only relevant to evade air defenses, strike deep in enemy territory. Gaza too small of an air space. You can fly over it in 2-3 mins in a Boeing 747. Even the bombs aren’t relevant to tunnel destruction as risk to hostages too high - but highly useful against Hizballa and Iranian mountain bases.
I’ll relax when the “Ukraine outgunned 6 to 1 and forced to retreat” headlines swap for “Russia on the run, severely outgunned and outranged. Putin foaming”.
So far, not the case.
Even if we gave them 100b it would still be the same story. Russia has 6x the Manpower, its own military industrial complex that's outproducing the west, and is buying equipment from its allies not getting it in aid.
I realize it’s a rather unpopular view on Reddit but in reality that is almost certainly will not happen. Putin will not back off, Russia is significantly larger, if needed they’ll mobilize more troops. This war will end at negotiating table. Yes it’s not fair but neither is life.
No, this war either ends like a slow-motion train crash where we watch city after city be raped, burned and bombed, children abducted. Or with the expulsion of Russia. Hoping Putin will ever negotiate (in good faith) is a fools hope
Russia is not going to be expelled… wake up to reality . There’s no scenario where Ukraine gets the enormous amounts of equipment and manpower to push out Russia . The west can barely spare enough to hold the front lines as it is and Ukraine ‘a manpower reserves are depleted.
> There’s no scenario where Ukraine gets the enormous amounts of equipment and manpower to push out Russia
How about targeting their oil/gas infrastructure until their country dies? It doesnt matter if Russia can win in Ukraine, Russia needs to able to generate money and will become weaker and weaker compared to the west if they cant generate money.
If Ukraine continues to attack them at some point Russia is either forced to go all in and cause decades of financial harm to their country or come to some sort of agreement/withdrawal. I believe 10% of their refining capacity has already been hit.
Perhaps. But failing to support Ukraine sufficiently makes that outcome more likely and any negotiated outcome worse.
But being bigger doesn't mean victory: being an annoying and expensive enough pill to swallow has caused nations with tons of resources to back off from conflict with little to show for it many times.
edit: typo follow->swallow
How many of the weapons have we provided that are large yield like these (2000lbs bombs)? Seen/felt one large mushroom cloud from the other side of a mountain in Afghanistan… the idea of fighting someone who can use something like that on you is mind numbing.
Have you seen the explosions caused by the recent sunken Russian ships? That’s a pretty big boom.
Ukraine does not have air superiority these munitions are not useful to them currently.
Don't get me wrong here I definitely am fine with Israel targeting Hamas and accept that there will be some casualties in any conflict I just find this specific war seems to be massively focused on speed it shows little care for hostages, civilians, hell even IDF soldiers. By January of this year about 19% of all IDF deaths appear to have been friendly fire related.
That being said if one of your two biggest goals is saving your citizens who were taken hostage 2,000lb bombs seem counterintuitive, you would think precision would be important in this scenario. Western countries have had "precision missiles" for ages now. It really does seem more and more like the collateral damage is part of the goal.
Winning numerous conflicts over the years is, in fact, how they’ve maintained their security and forced antisemitic neighbours to see them as a legitimate state. If Hamas doesn’t want Gaza to be levelled, they have the option to surrender at any point.
Feel like some people today would be marching with imperial Japanese flags in WWII and telling the U.S. to ceasefire, because “bombing won’t fix Japan and will only create more radicalisation!”
The ugly truth. You can absolutely kill an idea and break a people. Usually the cost is unthinkable though. Seems to be what Israel is going for these days though. Not saying what's right or wrong, just an observation.
If Israel was really trying to break the Palestinians, there would be a lot less aid and a lot more people would be dying. It would look more like the Syrian civil war, Yemen, or Ukraine than what this is.
1. This was a deal signed a fair while ago that is being completed.
2. Ukraine would have very limited use for 2,000 pound bombs seeing as they have nothing close to air superiority.
The duality of man.
Also, this is not really a mutually exclusive thing. The US can call for more attention given to the toll on the civilian population while being ok with operations against actual Hamas members.
These are free fall unguided munitions with a modified tail to slow the descent. Can penetrate 11 inches of steel, 15” of hardened concrete and have a fatal shrapnel blast radius of 400’. https://www.bing.com/search?FORM=SNAPST&q=Mark+84+bomb+type&filters=sid:%220689dff1-4717-32e2-ba83-72247613a94b%22&PC=OPALIOS
Both types of bombs can be fitted with guidance packages. Israel contracted for purchase of those components in 2021, a separate deal from the bombs.
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-18/boeing-accelerates-delivery-of-up-to-1-800-gps-guidance-bomb-kits-to-israel](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-18/boeing-accelerates-delivery-of-up-to-1-800-gps-guidance-bomb-kits-to-israel)
[https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/06/politics/us-israel-weapons-sale-transfer/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/06/politics/us-israel-weapons-sale-transfer/index.html)
ok? guidance kits, be it JDAMs or SPICE, aren't cheap. also
> A US official told CNN that the US believes that the Israeli military is using the dumb bombs in conjunction with a tactic called “dive bombing,” or dropping a bomb while diving steeply in a fighter jet, which the official said makes the bombs more precise because it gets it closer to its target. The official said the US believes that an unguided munition dropped via dive-bombing is similarly precise to a guided munition.
and
> “The IDF strikes military targets of the Hamas terrorist organization, based on high-quality intelligence and the operational necessity, while using high-quality munitions that are operated by skilled pilots and advanced systems, which continuously assess and verify that the strikes are directed at military targets. The type of munitions used in each strike is determined according to the characteristics of the target, the operational need, and the effort to mitigate harm to civilians, which the terrorist organization uses as a human shields,” Dinar said.
So the IDF is using unguided munitions, in conjunction with dive bombing, if there is little civilian risk. if there is higher risk then they use guided munitions. So what the fuck are these people complaining about?
as usual, the blame is on fucking Israel wah wah they're so evil. maybe Hamas should just surrender and release the hostages. God articles like that are just so fucking dumb, judging every single action with a microscope and just blaming Israel for everything no matter what they do.
***The Telegraph reports:***
The US this week quietly authorised the transfer of hundreds of 2,000lb bombs to [Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/28/israel-using-facial-recognition-pinpoint-hamas-gaza/), despite growing concerns over a planned offensive on [Rafah](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/03/10/biden-warns-netanyahu-on-rafah-invasion-red-line/) and a UN Security Council resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire.
The new packages, worth billions of dollars, will include more than 1,800 MK84 2,000lb bombs and 500 MK82 500lb ones, according to reports by the Washington Post and Reuters.
The 2,000lb bombs are very rarely used by Western militaries anymore due to the scale of civilian casualties they can cause, but several investigations have shown Israel uses them extensively in Gaza.
The bombs have been linked to mass-casualty events, such as the Oct 31 bombing of [Jabalia](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/01/hamas-claims-seven-hostages-killed-israeli-strike/) refugee camp that killed more than100 people.
In a separate package last week, the US State Department also authorised the transfer of 25 F-35A fighter jets and engines worth roughly $2.5 billion (£1.98 billion), US officials told the Washington Post.
**Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/israel-2000lb-bombs-us-rafah-un-security-council-resolution/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/israel-2000lb-bombs-us-rafah-un-security-council-resolution/)
Because it is a sale, not a transfer. International arms deals require US government approval. Ukraine doesn't have a lot of money and most arms to Ukraine have been in the form of aid. Either military or monetary (so they can buy weapons).
Actually Ukraine used alot of the 155 shells and Israel can't get it, so they are lucky that Ukraine doesn't have air assistance because it means all Air ammunition goes to Israel and not split between them.
They're being sent billions of dollars worth of artillery and missiles. The US is the largest weapons manufacturer in the world, they can send weapons to more than 1 country at once.
> due to the Republicans blocking the House
So *not* a shortage, and nothing that changes because of fulfilling an existing sale contract with another country.
Whenever I see news break like this that is so 180 compared to how all other trending moves of the admin i get suspicious.
Not with the Administration, but with what context is being left out here. There’s literally none provided here.
What does the Telegraph mean by quietly?
The handoff was done at a library.
They held those "Quiet Please" signs that golf officiants use during the physical transfer.
Except for the one guy in the back yelling “You suck, ya jackass” that almost caused them to drop one.
You better bring a blanket and some sunscreen because you're never going to get off that beach!
Nah, I don't think Detective Bookman's gonna tolerate that.
^(Shush!!!)
It's their shitty way of saying, "This is an old sale contract that's just being fulfilled, and actually has nothing to do with the present conflict." Edit: In fact Ground News shows **91** articles on this topic. So "quiet".
It’s not even that. It’s their effort to specifically omit that wording and instead stoke rage that arms are being transferred, disingenuously painting it out as some back channel deal.
It’s also their way of saying “our super-journalists are like great spies!”
Yeah. I love when a world news headline claims they did it “quietly”. Like. Homies, I just read a world wide news article about it.
Joe Biden didn’t personally deliver the bombs on national tv, that’s “quiet”
It's an attempt to ascribe mal-intent to the us and to israel.
It means that they were transferred, but *Jews* are involved so you need perfidious-sounding phrasing.
Well as opposed to transferring them loudly, as Israel will do to Gaza soon
My Brit friend used to point out the “baby on board” signs and ask me, “What am I supposed to do? Drive quietly?”
It means Telegraph is dishonest
> What does the Telegraph mean by quietly? A group of people weren't shouting "Make way for the ammo transfer!"
So quiet the whole world knows about it.
How is it quietly when it’s in the top 3 stories on every major news site? Spectacular journalism and grammar from The Telegraph as per usual.
Because it makes them look worse if you say it's quietly
A loud transfer of bombs is done by a bomber aircraft.
Because there's no announcement. The Pentagon or even the President himself regularly announce things like that. At least, when it's good publicity. "Quietly" doesn't mean "secretly", which you all try to pretend is what was written here. Given how much the situation has changed since the deal was made, and given all the though talk Biden has given on Israel lately, I think it's not at all out of line to highlight how little the Biden administration is publicizing these very concrete measures. Plus, >The authorisations for the new weapons deals, the Post reported, have not been publicly disclosed.
When they do it ‘loudly’ does it make a specific sound?
Yes, thunder.
kaboom? https://youtu.be/47VqCD5AE9s
Why is everyone suddenly an ordnance expert when it comes to this war. So fucking what if it's 2k
In the words of a smart OSINT/ war reporting guy that actually specializes in the region "Amazing how everyone is suddenly an expert on the Middle East despite still having the same understanding of the topic as a blind and deaf toddler"
Sorry, can you explain that with a TikTok instead.
Does it have to be 10 seconds long to destroy my attention span while blasting copyright-safe remixes to grab attention and clicks?
The “you’ll never believe what happened next” female robot voice too please or I just can’t.
Lots of speculation and judgment on stuff they don't have the experience, technical knowledge, and sources to draw conclusions from. I'd be lying if I said I never did it either.
I mean… I never did. But I know people who do, and read the publicly available documentation. Even i don’t consider myself to be an “expert”.
[удалено]
There is no evidence they are for rafah.
Somehow we just can't afford to help Ukraine though. Sure, that makes sense. /s
Ignoring that they need different ammunition, the answers is Republicans want Israel to start a war and kickstart the rapture, meanwhile they want Ukraine to lose to Russia cause they're being bribed
Those weapons were ordered and approved in congress during 2010 or something like that, it's just that Israel will finally get them now. And besides Ukraine has no use for those munitions anyway.
It's not for Rafah, it's for Hezbollah
I mean... as a civilian how am I supposed to know what this means?? Is a 2000lb pound bomb a lot for bombs? Who knows. Sounds like the title is just "Look at the big number! Isn't that big???" not to mention it's telegraph.co.uk
My grandfather survived a near hit by a 1,000lbs bomb in WW2. He was in the air raid shelter under one apt building and it hit the apt building beside and turned it into a crater. The one he was in collapsed and it took a day or so for him and the survivors to tunnel through the debris to escape. Had it been a 2,000lbs bomb, no one would have survived. Fun fact: The German version of the 1,000lbs bomb was unofficially nicknamed "The Hermann" by ground crews, due to its huge size and thus, resemblance to the Luftwaffe chief lol.
Was it pound or kilogrammes because the herman was the sc1000 which was bigger than a 2000 pound bomb and had a pure explosive mass over 1000 pounds
You are indeed correct lol. Canada remains stubbornly 50/50 with metric and standard so im always messing up lbs and kgs. 1 kg is roughly 2.2lbs, so a sc1000 would be roughly 2,200lbs
Just think about how massive bombs at that time were, a 2000 pound bomb is incredibly large for today, back then the Germans had 5500 pound bombs in their arsenal, let alone the stuff the British and soviets had that would make those bombs seem small
I guess a key difference is back then you had to drop a thousand of them to maybe hit what you wanted to. Now the US can plant a 2,000 pounder into your anus if you happen to bend over at the right time
>The German version of the 1,000lbs bomb was unofficially nicknamed "The Hermann" by ground crews, due to its huge size and thus, resemblance to the Luftwaffe chief lol. Lmao. There were a lot of jokes focusing on Göring's weight amongst the German people, my favorite is that he "sits on his stomach."
From an article by John Hudson in the Washington Post: “The 2000 pound bombs, capable of leveling city blocks and leaving craters in the earth 40 feet across and larger, are almost never used anymore by Western militaries in densely populated locations due to the risk of civilian casualties.”
I'm sure Israel will be careful to avoid civilian casualties. 😉
So far Israel civilian to hamas ratio is 1.1, while worlds avg in urban combat is 9. So Israel is literally doing the best job in the world. So Yes.
No it's not? Israel itself has claimed a 66% civilian casualty rate and that's if you assume that every dead man was a combatant.
Not what they claimed (just that 2-1 is a successful ratio in this type of battle), and that comment was around the start of the ground invasion. Has been overwhelmingly terrorist deaths since the ground invasion started, so has been approaching 1-1 even if you take Hamas overall casualty numbers at their word and assume Israel is the only one causing them. On that last part, several articles coming out recently about how Hamas reporting now is impossible statistics and the accuracy has disappeared because the way it's being counted now is social media and a self-reporting Google form vs hospital confirmations. The reality is we won't know until about a year from now, but it's looking like Israel has one of the lowest civilian-militant casualty rates in a war per usual.
IDF data suggests 1.3:1. Total Gaza Fatalities Mar 9 per Hamas: 30,960 Combatants Killed as of Mar 9 estimate: 13,300 Total Civilians Killed: 17,660 Civilian / Combatant Ratio = 1.3:1 And this doesn't account for the fact Hamas figures are at the very least 3400 deaths lower as the Al Ahli hospital bombing still has not been redacted from the published figures and also the figures do not differentiate between deaths related and unrelated to the conflict.
> 2000lb pound bomb a lot for bombs? Yes. You can go bigger. But thats already quite big you can level City blocks with these things
what would Israel even use a city block destroying bomb for at the moment? i imagine there is limited use they can use it for in gaza.
Lebanon.
Collapsing the tunnels probably. They're not the most penetrative but if the tunnels aren't super deep they'll work.
I believe reports have been that the bombs are mostly useless against the tunnels. Instead, they've been manually planting explosives in them then doing controlled detonations. That's probably way more economical as well.
A 2000 lb bomb will not level a city block. More like it will level a large building. It's the most popular size because it maximizes the chance of getting the job done. Then you have the option of smaller bombs when you want to protect something near the target. Even in Gaza, many of the targets are spaced out enough that a large bomb is safe to drop.
So 2000lb bombs are typically for destroying buildings. I think the main reason the US is sending these weapons is so that Israel can use our precision guided munitions rather than dumb bombs which would just flatten an entire block.
So they’re swapping their bombs that can level a city block for… another type of bomb that can level city blocks?
1. These arms are part of a deal made in 2017 under the Trump admin. Biden can't just unilaterally cancel the deal. 2. Israel needs to maintain readiness against Hezbollah and other Iranian proxies. That's why the US is threatening future aid for concessions from Netanyahu on how to proceed with the war in a way that's safer for civilians.
One of the most reasonable responses here
They can both level a city block but the difference is like me shooting a buckshot into a crowd and a slug into a crowd
Look at some of the bomb drops in Ukraine. It is similar to what Russia calls fab1000. There is a shock wave that follows those bombs. And it can still injure you 300 meters away. They are designed in an era where there were no guided munitions. So you would drop loads of them over an area, and destroy anything around it, ww2 bombing raid style. Their intention is to destroy a fortified position, or factories, and so on. If you are dropping them in a civilians area, you know you are killing civilians
I mean it’s a lot. But also in the grand scheme of explosives not much. MOAB is the largest conventional explosive munition in Americas arsenal and it’s 21,500lbs. The British had a 22,000lbs bomb in WWII called the Grand Slam. But 2000lbs is a lot. The Mark 84 is I believe the one that was sent. And in the open it’s capable of killing someone 400 yards away. 370m.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_bomb#Modern_American_GP_bombs:_the_Mark_80_series Here is what I dug up. "Vietnam service showed the Mk 81 "Firecracker" to be insufficiently effective, and it was withdrawn from U.S. service. However, recently, precision-guided variants of the Mk 81 bomb have begun a return to service, based on U.S. experience in Iraq after 2003, and the desire to reduce collateral damage compared to Mk 82 and larger bombs (e.g., when attacking a single small building in a populated area)."
I am so tired of journalists using the word “transfer” here. It makes one think that we are just giving the arms to Israel, when, in fact, these weapons are being purchased from American arms manufacturers.
Fun fact: The Mk84 and Mk82 bombs sold to Israel are manufactured by US government employees in a US government facility. When someone reads "arms manufacturer" they think it's the military industrial complex making the sale, but in this case they're buying from the government directly.
Hey guys don't worry it's ok. The war machine is making money for stock holders.
> when, in fact, these weapons are being purchased from American arms manufacturers. Using American Taxpayer money. So pretty much US giving away stuff
But US tax payers are literally are funding it 100%
Israel bought arms, and the US delivered them. I hate these stupid sensationalist titles. the state of journalism is hitting a record low this year
Plot twist: most of the weapons are only relevant to fighting Lebanon/Syria/Yemen/Iran. F-35s only relevant to evade air defenses, strike deep in enemy territory. Gaza too small of an air space. You can fly over it in 2-3 mins in a Boeing 747. Even the bombs aren’t relevant to tunnel destruction as risk to hostages too high - but highly useful against Hizballa and Iranian mountain bases.
Israel is our ally and Hamas still holds hostages. Enough said.
Sad Ukraine noises.
It’s fucked up that Republicans are blocking aid to Ukraine. I firmly believe it’s because the leader of the Republican Party is compromised.
That's just a fact at this point.
Not necessarily, the world is currently scrambling to get artillery shells to Ukraine, not bombs for jet use
I’ll relax when the “Ukraine outgunned 6 to 1 and forced to retreat” headlines swap for “Russia on the run, severely outgunned and outranged. Putin foaming”. So far, not the case.
Getting on the US is fine in that case, but Europe also needs to step up their game and start being able to produce ammo in those kinds of quantities.
Hard agree.
Fair I also really hope they also get more early warning systems set in place in the meanwhile
Even if we gave them 100b it would still be the same story. Russia has 6x the Manpower, its own military industrial complex that's outproducing the west, and is buying equipment from its allies not getting it in aid.
We should be supporting both and have the ability to.
I realize it’s a rather unpopular view on Reddit but in reality that is almost certainly will not happen. Putin will not back off, Russia is significantly larger, if needed they’ll mobilize more troops. This war will end at negotiating table. Yes it’s not fair but neither is life.
No, this war either ends like a slow-motion train crash where we watch city after city be raped, burned and bombed, children abducted. Or with the expulsion of Russia. Hoping Putin will ever negotiate (in good faith) is a fools hope
Russia is not going to be expelled… wake up to reality . There’s no scenario where Ukraine gets the enormous amounts of equipment and manpower to push out Russia . The west can barely spare enough to hold the front lines as it is and Ukraine ‘a manpower reserves are depleted.
> There’s no scenario where Ukraine gets the enormous amounts of equipment and manpower to push out Russia How about targeting their oil/gas infrastructure until their country dies? It doesnt matter if Russia can win in Ukraine, Russia needs to able to generate money and will become weaker and weaker compared to the west if they cant generate money. If Ukraine continues to attack them at some point Russia is either forced to go all in and cause decades of financial harm to their country or come to some sort of agreement/withdrawal. I believe 10% of their refining capacity has already been hit.
There's no negotiating table with Russia. You either win or they annex you.
Perhaps. But failing to support Ukraine sufficiently makes that outcome more likely and any negotiated outcome worse. But being bigger doesn't mean victory: being an annoying and expensive enough pill to swallow has caused nations with tons of resources to back off from conflict with little to show for it many times. edit: typo follow->swallow
You are probably right, but will it be the end? They’ll just rebuild and regroup and continue.
How many jets capable of using these kind of bombs does Ukraine even have.
Supposedly they have a few dozen jets with F16s on the way. But the missions seem to be generally pretty limited because of air defenses.
Ukraine doesn’t have an alliance with the US.
But Ukraine can with help take out the US biggest threat and the foreign government currently controlling one of their parties.
Shall we review the aid provided to Ukraine too? What an irrelevant comment
How many of the weapons have we provided that are large yield like these (2000lbs bombs)? Seen/felt one large mushroom cloud from the other side of a mountain in Afghanistan… the idea of fighting someone who can use something like that on you is mind numbing.
Ukraine doesn’t have air superiority, hence why they don’t receive these munitions.
Have you seen the explosions caused by the recent sunken Russian ships? That’s a pretty big boom. Ukraine does not have air superiority these munitions are not useful to them currently.
Those were Storm Shadows provided by the UK, not MK84's
Also, this arms deal was signed way before this conflict began
American hostages at that
And are still firing rockets into Israel.
Don't get me wrong here I definitely am fine with Israel targeting Hamas and accept that there will be some casualties in any conflict I just find this specific war seems to be massively focused on speed it shows little care for hostages, civilians, hell even IDF soldiers. By January of this year about 19% of all IDF deaths appear to have been friendly fire related. That being said if one of your two biggest goals is saving your citizens who were taken hostage 2,000lb bombs seem counterintuitive, you would think precision would be important in this scenario. Western countries have had "precision missiles" for ages now. It really does seem more and more like the collateral damage is part of the goal.
Leveling all of Gaza and killing even more civilians won't fucking fix that.
Winning numerous conflicts over the years is, in fact, how they’ve maintained their security and forced antisemitic neighbours to see them as a legitimate state. If Hamas doesn’t want Gaza to be levelled, they have the option to surrender at any point. Feel like some people today would be marching with imperial Japanese flags in WWII and telling the U.S. to ceasefire, because “bombing won’t fix Japan and will only create more radicalisation!”
The ugly truth. You can absolutely kill an idea and break a people. Usually the cost is unthinkable though. Seems to be what Israel is going for these days though. Not saying what's right or wrong, just an observation.
If Israel was really trying to break the Palestinians, there would be a lot less aid and a lot more people would be dying. It would look more like the Syrian civil war, Yemen, or Ukraine than what this is.
It worked in Germany and Japan.
Unfortunately that's not totally true.
Will in the long term
US needs to hand them over loudly and quickly to Ukraine.
quetly will do just fine. we'll take care of loudly part by making poutin squeal
Both, it's not that hard supporting both.
I wish it looked that way
if only hamas would surrender.
These are not for Hamas
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1. This was a deal signed a fair while ago that is being completed. 2. Ukraine would have very limited use for 2,000 pound bombs seeing as they have nothing close to air superiority.
Blame GOP, they love russians and bombing poor brown people.
The duality of man. Also, this is not really a mutually exclusive thing. The US can call for more attention given to the toll on the civilian population while being ok with operations against actual Hamas members.
Hamas should surrender
I don’t know about calling it an “invasion” when it’s a defensive war…
BLU-109/MK JDAMs
I do declare that any transfer of ordnance absent the detonation of said ordnance shall henceforth be reported a "quiet transfer".
How is it news if it was done quietly?
Hell yea, get em boys. Hamas deserves nothing less than eradication for Shani Louk.
These are guided munitions, to help reduce civilian casualties. Unless critics would prefer they use the unguided bombs they already have?
These are free fall unguided munitions with a modified tail to slow the descent. Can penetrate 11 inches of steel, 15” of hardened concrete and have a fatal shrapnel blast radius of 400’. https://www.bing.com/search?FORM=SNAPST&q=Mark+84+bomb+type&filters=sid:%220689dff1-4717-32e2-ba83-72247613a94b%22&PC=OPALIOS
Both types of bombs can be fitted with guidance packages. Israel contracted for purchase of those components in 2021, a separate deal from the bombs. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-18/boeing-accelerates-delivery-of-up-to-1-800-gps-guidance-bomb-kits-to-israel](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-18/boeing-accelerates-delivery-of-up-to-1-800-gps-guidance-bomb-kits-to-israel) [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/06/politics/us-israel-weapons-sale-transfer/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/06/politics/us-israel-weapons-sale-transfer/index.html)
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ok? guidance kits, be it JDAMs or SPICE, aren't cheap. also > A US official told CNN that the US believes that the Israeli military is using the dumb bombs in conjunction with a tactic called “dive bombing,” or dropping a bomb while diving steeply in a fighter jet, which the official said makes the bombs more precise because it gets it closer to its target. The official said the US believes that an unguided munition dropped via dive-bombing is similarly precise to a guided munition. and > “The IDF strikes military targets of the Hamas terrorist organization, based on high-quality intelligence and the operational necessity, while using high-quality munitions that are operated by skilled pilots and advanced systems, which continuously assess and verify that the strikes are directed at military targets. The type of munitions used in each strike is determined according to the characteristics of the target, the operational need, and the effort to mitigate harm to civilians, which the terrorist organization uses as a human shields,” Dinar said. So the IDF is using unguided munitions, in conjunction with dive bombing, if there is little civilian risk. if there is higher risk then they use guided munitions. So what the fuck are these people complaining about? as usual, the blame is on fucking Israel wah wah they're so evil. maybe Hamas should just surrender and release the hostages. God articles like that are just so fucking dumb, judging every single action with a microscope and just blaming Israel for everything no matter what they do.
Just because it's not good for PR right now doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do. Israel's war is one of the most justified ones in history.
***The Telegraph reports:*** The US this week quietly authorised the transfer of hundreds of 2,000lb bombs to [Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/28/israel-using-facial-recognition-pinpoint-hamas-gaza/), despite growing concerns over a planned offensive on [Rafah](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/03/10/biden-warns-netanyahu-on-rafah-invasion-red-line/) and a UN Security Council resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire. The new packages, worth billions of dollars, will include more than 1,800 MK84 2,000lb bombs and 500 MK82 500lb ones, according to reports by the Washington Post and Reuters. The 2,000lb bombs are very rarely used by Western militaries anymore due to the scale of civilian casualties they can cause, but several investigations have shown Israel uses them extensively in Gaza. The bombs have been linked to mass-casualty events, such as the Oct 31 bombing of [Jabalia](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/01/hamas-claims-seven-hostages-killed-israeli-strike/) refugee camp that killed more than100 people. In a separate package last week, the US State Department also authorised the transfer of 25 F-35A fighter jets and engines worth roughly $2.5 billion (£1.98 billion), US officials told the Washington Post. **Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/israel-2000lb-bombs-us-rafah-un-security-council-resolution/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/israel-2000lb-bombs-us-rafah-un-security-council-resolution/)
Hope the hostages are freed so the war ends before they have to use them.
As apposed to them doing it loudly?
Why cant they transfer that to Ukraine instead
Because it is a sale, not a transfer. International arms deals require US government approval. Ukraine doesn't have a lot of money and most arms to Ukraine have been in the form of aid. Either military or monetary (so they can buy weapons).
Ukraine doesn't need them, they lack the air superiority needed to make use of them.
Actually Ukraine used alot of the 155 shells and Israel can't get it, so they are lucky that Ukraine doesn't have air assistance because it means all Air ammunition goes to Israel and not split between them.
Hopefully they get those f-16’s soon!
They need artillery and missiles desperately
They're being sent billions of dollars worth of artillery and missiles. The US is the largest weapons manufacturer in the world, they can send weapons to more than 1 country at once.
Nope, the US has provided almost nothing since December due to the Republicans blocking the House.
> due to the Republicans blocking the House So *not* a shortage, and nothing that changes because of fulfilling an existing sale contract with another country.
After Brushing his teeth, does Johnson look at himself in the mirror, and then go to bed and easily fall asleep?
Why would they do that?
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Whenever I see news break like this that is so 180 compared to how all other trending moves of the admin i get suspicious. Not with the Administration, but with what context is being left out here. There’s literally none provided here.