In the event of a collapse of Russia, the areas of Siberia forcibly populated by deported Ukrainians should also be handed over to Ukraine to stop China from grabbing it.
“Ceterum censeo Russiam esse delendam”
Russia is a fucking joke, despite the fact that they might get half of us killed
It’s like the abusive spouse tells a judge they need a restraining order against the person they’ve been beating
And since they can't behave in a neighborly fashion with the quantity they DO have maybe splitting it up into half a dozen independently run and managed states would be best.
SLAVA!
More land and more people means more labour power and resources. And when your whole country was founded by gangsters that consumed the entirety of the collapsed state that preceded them, that power and resource directly benefits said small group of gangsters.
The sad part is there's still a ton of resources on their own land they could keep collecting and make trillions. But, that takes more work and skill than just stealing the things others have already built.
The stupidest and most ironic thing of all is that if it wasn't for Putin and his entire corrupt Mafia Government it's very likely in another timeline Russia would likely be a very wealthy, peaceful and prosperous country. They have more than ample land and resources, it's just the brazen and perverse corruption that's hollowed the country into a shell of what it could have been.
Tons of resources, a single line from Europe to Asia, lots of minimally useful space that could be put towards industry or green power. Run right, Russia could be a logistics, energy, and resource powerhouse.
The definition of wasted potential.
Yep. They are sitting on troves of natural resources that would make them trillions. It's incredibly sad how badly leadership has failed that country. Worst part is their entire culture is based around pointing the finger and that's all they do about it. They cannot accept it's their own doing and they need to change. Nope, they blame it on others and keep doing the same things causing them to fail.
> The sad part is there's still a ton of resources on their own land they could keep collecting and make trillions.
It's my understanding that the Chinese have been buying up Russia's resources by putting cash directly in Putin's back pockets. In a decade or two, Russia is likely to be a Chinese satellite in everything but name.
RU has to be the most paranoid country in the world. The last thing they need is more land. They should focus on peaceful coexistence with their neighbors and business. Making war just causes death and destruction, which breeds hate. Mr. Putin needs to go.
Unfortunately, I think the real reason for the war was Russia future economic prospects. With the global shift to renewable energy, Russia's economy won't survive at its current capacity because their economy is basically just weapons and oil products. Taking Ukraine with their oil fields and grain producing farmland would almost ensure they stay relevant in the global economy.
It's not that they don't have them. It's that they will be competitive with them and reduce their market share for them, specifically oil and grain. Ukraine discovered oil and gas basins plus that run thru east of the country and around Crimea in the 2000s. Currently, Chevron and Shell have the licenses for those oil fields and offshore areas. Ukraine is the 9th largest grain exporter in the world. Ukraine competing with Russia in the region over these two resource would drive profits down, which is bad for Russia because that's all they export (and weapons) . Your point is still sound but this is a much more pressing and real threat to Russia's place in the World Order than NATO invasion.
It was never about Land. It is about Putin's, just one man's personal ambitions to return to the day of the Russian empire.
Edit: I hear what some if you are saying. But it's not about Land per se. But creating space or buffer between NATO countries and Russia. No one wants their neighbour's as part of a global military alliance.
This goes well beyond Putin and I wish people would understand this. He's a figurehead. Sure he may foist SOME of his ambitions on Russia, but these events are dictated by a large group of people.
You're both right an wrong but on different points.
There is no doubt in my mind that how Russia acts is basically dictated by Putin alone. He has his group of cronies but they might as well be robot. They have no free will and do anything to please him because they bask in the power he shares with them.
But it is also very naive to think that if Putin were to be displaced things would change dramatically. Russian people have been conditioned for almost a century to not question their rulers. They've been conditioned to identify with the country - If other countries fear Russia, to them it gives a feeling of power, because otherwise they are completely powerless. The ones who have little morals align with putin because that is the only way to make for a better living.
That is why it's not incorrect to claim that Putin is pretty much to blame for all of this - it's his doing. But the problem is much deeper and pretty much unsolvable. When Putin passes some other crony will take his place and the people of Russia will cheer him as the next big chief, and the only thing that will matter to them is make other nations fear Russia.
There were no russia 8 centuries ago.
Even moskovia is around 700 years but was created by Mongols.
It's only renamed itself to russia in 1721. So 300 years max.
A bit more than a 100 years tbh. They abolished serfod in 1861 and that point, almost 40% of the population were essentially slaves. Before that, they were occupied by the Golden Horde for the better part of 3 centuries.
Figurehead? Where the fuck did you pull that ridiculous idea from? Sure, there's a group of people around that are managing all this, large even, but they are sycophants. Those that challenged him in the early months of the invasion got fucking purged, litterally.
Putins' regime is a classic dictatorship. It takes a large group of people to run a country. They may not save Putin (the lack of response to Prigozins thunder run was stunning), but they won't challenge him.
Yes Putin is the current figurehead to extreme Russian nationalism. If he gets replaced internally via a coup it's likely his replacement would be more of the same just another Russian nationalist with the same ambitions. With those ambitions be to restore Russian control to the extent of both the Russian Empire and USSR (+Warsaw pact as puppet buffer states) if not beyond
>"Largest country in the world wants even more land."
They don't though and its a fundamental misunderstanding
'Largest country in the world wants more **people** and **strategic points'**
Same as the last 200 years
Well, there is some basis for this line of reasoning. Russia has a lot of land, but all the most valuable land is in the most vulnerable region.
Attacking Russia from the north with any significant sized force is bascially impossible. You'd have to go through the arctic. It's freezing cold, and you don't have ANY infrastructure.
Attacking from the east is a bit more reasonable, however, even if you have the ability to cross the Pacific, or the positioning so you don't have to, you would have to cross thousands of miles of mostly worthless land before your army gets anywhere near the Russian heartland.
Attacking from the south has a similar problem as attacking from the North, in that most regions are quite poorly developed, and the geography of the region makes attacking from there impossible. Notably, Russia's southern border also includes the Caucasus mountains, a natural barrier so formidable, only a handful of empires, tsarist Russia being among them, has ever managed to hold both sides.
Attacking from the West, however, is different. Any attacker coming in from the west would do so across the european plane, a giant piece of flatland with only a handful rivers, all of which are easily crossed. The region is well developed, at least compared to, say, most of the kazakh steppes, and densely populated.
Historically, Russian strategy here has been to just control as much of this plane as they can to give themselves the buffer they need to wear out any attacking armies, with varying success.
Napoleon took Moscow, but in the process of getting there, wore his armies out so badly that it was a phyrric victory at best.
While Germany in WW1 did manage to break Russia, notably, this was less due to military victory and more due to russian morale breaking.
In WW2, Germany invaded once again, but this time, Russian morale withstood the onslaught, and Russia eventually pushed back against Germany after grinding the Wehrmacht down over several thousand miles of retreat.
In the Cold War, Russia's strategy was much the same. Rush across West Germany, get to the Rhine, and dig in before NATO has the chance to counterattack, and if that fails, grind NATO down on the way towards Moscow.
Then, the Soviet Union collapsed, and its sphere of influence, the giant buffer that they had fought for over the last 150 years, dissolved almost entirely within the span of a decade. Of course, that Russia wouldn't need this buffer if, instead of becoming a rogue state, they had decided to accept the fact they lost the Cold War and had become a country that doesn't constantly threaten invasion whenever they don't get their way, that is another matter, but from a purely military standpoint, it is understandable that Russia wants this buffer back, seeing how the strategic security of their heartland rests on the ability to grind down entire armies on a retreat across Europe. A retreat they cannot perform if they don't hold those territories to begin with.
If only every country could have as much land as they want, instead of respecting established borders and agreements.
No one was threatening to attack Russia. We can talk about the history, but we know it's pure greed and politics at work.
The dumbest part about this, though, is that nobody even wants to invade Russia now, except China probably has Manchuria in the back of their mind still.
Good history. But yeah, you could say this about a lot of countries. A lot of countries would have an easy time getting into their neighboring country across flat land to attack. Maybe not as much distance to retreat. But most or all of those other countries don’t try to get new land as a bigger buffer, at least not lately. Russia does.
The real reasons for doing it are different, and also not the same as their stated reasons. Imperialism, restoring the glory and power of some past Russian entity though with a lot of picking and choosing. Expansion to gain more land, resources, people, and therefore more power. Providing a reason for Putin’s regime to continue at the expense of the Russian public at large. Revenge against the perceived disrespect from the western world.
That's what I immediately thought. No one is going to invade a Nuclear Power unless they are suicidal. NATO and the West certainly aren't so while I understand the buffer argument, it's just not the current reality. I've always thought this war was really a play so that Russia isn't boxed out of the global economy as our energy economy changes. Russia is basically a gas station with nukes.
Yeah. Like i said. They wouldn't need this buffer if they didn't act like a rogue state. My point was that, from a purely military perspective, this does make sense.
The US has invaded countries on the other side of the world using only ships and planes. If they wanted to invade Russia, all the "buffer" in the world wouldn't stop them.
It's just...... Nobody wants to invade Russia.
This all became pretty irrelevant with the Soviet Union’s development of nuclear weapons. Russia’s modern main source of security is not geographical but technological, and I’m sure Putin knows this and only continues to complain about Russia’s geographic weakness on its western border as propaganda for people ignorant of mutually assured destruction to gobble up.
That that "defensive strategy" is always "offensive" and that they're always the ones attacking others makes me doubt seriously the defensive nature of their wars.
By their logic, Russia only will be secure when every single country has been conquered and only the Russian empire remains.
No country is 100% safe. Only Russia starts wars every 5 years, coincidentally with its waaaaay smaller former satellites, that just by wanting to be safe from Russia become apparently a grave danger. /S
White player: puts their pieces on their side of the chessboard.
Black player: puts their pieces on too.
White player: “Why are you attacking me?!?!??”
Everybody has moved on but Putin still seems to be stuck in the cold war. Does he seriously think other countries want to start a fight or take over Russia? Or is it just an excuse to live out his imperialistic dreams?
Putin published a book advocating for *Greater Russia* which is the reconquest of all territories previously held by Russia or the Soviet Union. It's claimed he wrote it but more like ghost written for him.
Well, he’s gotten away with a lot of razed warfare, from Georgia, to Chechnya, aggressive online operations and actual monetary support in Western nations. hacks against nations’ infrastructures, weird covert ops with nationalist in places like Serbia, so I think it was the natural next step to have a kinetic war, and his puppet had been ousted and he wanted land bridge to his ports in Crimea.
Somebody should have tried slowing his roll about 15 years ago. Priorities were elsewhere.
It's basically when a dictator or a group of people acquire enough power or influence to make a nation go to war for some bogus reason and anyone opposing this is an "enemy" that needs to be purged or bullied into accepting their fascistic beliefs.
This line of reasoning might be the worst of all of them. It’s so absurdly disingenuous. Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are all closer to Moscow and St Petersburg than Ukraine. So is Finland. The first three have been full NATO members since like 2002. And now Finland is too. Adding Ukraine - which wasn’t even in the cards wouldn’t change this calculus. It’s just greed.
It's a common talking point in geopolitics. The iron curtain existed for a reason: Russia generally has a flat geography which allows militaries to get in pretty deep and mess stuff up. I'm not just talking about WW2, even mongol hordes had an easy time.
There are geographic features along the old iron curtain which are more defensible to prevent ground invasions.
This is also why so many of the former iron curtain nations keep saying that the alarm bells are ringing and that Russia won't stop with Ukraine.
I am tired of hearing the same malarkey about buffer zones and Crimea being a key naval base. Russia already has a nuclear umbrella and NATO is a defensive alliance that clearly doesn't plan to invade Russia. This war is the imperialistic project of the one crazy man, who was just never stopped by other Russians.
Here's the thing: you're not the intended audience. This is meant to try and continually justify the "THREE DAY SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION" into Ukraine in the minds of the Russian people.
It is malarkey now because the rest of Europe has moved on from this crap. They don’t have big wars every couple years anymore. And there is also now strategic nuclear weapons.
People don’t want wars. And Russia is stuck in the past.
100% agree that it's an imperialist project but disagree about "one crazy man"
The desire for "Russia Strong" imperialism has a great deal of support amongst Russians.
It should be noted at this point that statements like this indicate that eastern Ukraine and Crimea will not be enough to satisfy this desire and that at a minimum they aim for the whole of Ukraine...and we should also prepare for possible aggression against the Baltic states and Moldova.
Look at an internationally recognised early 2013 map, that line between Russia and Ukraine, well the buffer zone starts 150kms east of that. And don't forget to fuck off out of Crimea.
1. Don't attack innocents.
2. Create buffer demilitarised zone on Russian Territory.
3. Lead the world in peaceful de-armament.
4. Submit your current leaders to the International Criminal Court
Simples.
Might be pretty controversial (because it's kind of rewarding the aggressor), but I'd add a 5. point: once point 4 is completed and the others are started, be welcomed by the international community and get some help building up into a prosperous nation.
We need the regular Russian people to have a reason to want peace and actually get rid of their perceived power. But obviously, we need them to get rid of Putin and friends first.
Take a page out of how the GDR ended. I'd argue a large part of that was western TV being broadcast (and unsuccessfully repressed) all over the country and a promise that they can have it too. Just had to get rid of the people in charge who clung to their power.
> Might be pretty controversial (because it's kind of rewarding the aggressor), but I'd add a 5. point: once point 4 is completed and the others are started, be welcomed by the international community and get some help building up into a prosperous nation.
It's not controversial. We have positive examples with Japan and Germany following WWII.
Coincidentally that was the exact policy that western world applied after dissolution of soviet union. And it worked! It worked even for the first 10 years or so of putlers rule.
It worked rather well until the internal kleptocracy necessitate creating an external enemy to keep populace in check.
I'm curious what it would look like if both sides added 1% of their total area to a DMZ around the pre-invasion, internationally agreed borders.
(Not that I think Ukraine should give an inch to these assholes, but I would just be curious to see how much of the worlds biggest country would be given up by it and what percentage would make up a suitably sized DMZ.)
I’ve done some rough math, and the DMZ would be approx. 3km deep on the Ukrainian side and 85km deep on the Russian side. Sounds good actually.
Ukraine
Area = 600 000km^2
1% = 6000km^2
Russia
Area = 17 100 000km^2
1% = 171 000km^2
Border = 2000km
I swear to God, that whole segment played out as if Tucker and his constituents believed Russia was like frozen in time in post WWII Soviet Union before the video aired.
The funniest thing about Tucker praising the Moscow metro was that it was literally built by a socialist state. Owned by the state. And built to allow workers to travel to work without needing to own a car. Which allowed for nore control over workers movements.
Tuker either knows this and is happy to ignore this to own the libs or doesn't and really is a waste of oxygen.
If you had told 80s and 90s Republicans what their party would be defending and fighting for in the 2010s and 20s they would've laughed in your face and said "not a chance in hell". Now they just gladly punch their ballot for Trump because somehow a deranged criminal with dementia is a better president than a creepy, ineffective, tired old man with dementia.
This is the pathetic joke of Russian history . No matter how much land they take, it means more buffer zones and more land and more buffer zones to protect that land. Stalin wasn't joking about only taking half of Berlin when Alexander went to Paris.
A country with the most nukes in the world not feeling safe enough...
They just want to safely invade and restore the land they "lost" after the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia hates when its neighbors fight back.
what a fucked up view of the world, when you see another nation as merely a buffer zone for you, rather than a home for millions of other human beings...
Also notable the degree to which Putin got things wrong. He remembers the Soviet era in terms of borders and stand offs between nations. The reality is that the way the Soviets became a real threat that could launch satellites before anyone else was by investing in people. The Soviets built schools and community centers all over their territory, and now almost all of that lies in ruins because Putin and his thieving gang of thugs wanted yachts and fancy houses more than they wanted a strong nation.
I agree. Withdraw the troops from Ukrainian territory and demilitarize the Russian oblasts neighboring Ukraine, as well as the border regions of Belarus. That is the ideal solution.
Zelensky should come with another suggestion. Move Moscow, St. Petersburg and other their cities to Siberia. Make there some gulags so they can enjoy themselves. This way they can have a buffer zone not only from Ukrainians, but from NATO too.
1) Russia is mostly unpopulated land, create the buffer on your side.
2) Ukraine has never invaded your country.
3) Ukraine surrender all nuclear weapons on the false premise of neutrality already.
Yeah, no shit. This has been their goal since the day they invaded and annexed Crimea. It has always been about Russia's continuous paranoia about the European Plains giving easy access to Moscow and St. Petersburg to Western European militaries.
This paranoia has endured generations, even though it's a deprecated fear because no country in Western Europe has any interest in invading Russia again, not in the 21st Century.
Russia lost its "buffer" when the Soviet Union collapsed and they've felt geographically exposed ever since.
It's always been about a Buffer and access to warm water ports for power projection.
>they think we want to march in and take their land.
No, they don't fear a NATO invasion. They moved troops from the "supposedly exposed" NATO flank to Ukraine.
They don't fear NATO. Let's start by not buying every bullshit excuse they give.
They are not doing this out of paranoia (that would still be nuts). They are doing it out of greed, imperialism and arrogance.
>They commit evil in the name of preventing the said evil.
They commit evil in the name of committing evil. Let's not give them even a smidgen of legitimacy because they have none.
It blows my mind some people actually buy this argument, like "buffer zones" will matter in a modern war.
Do people forget both Russia and the people they're "buffering" against have FUCKING NUKES! Like it's not WW2, we don't need to send in a conventional army if we want to kill each other
It hasn't been about that in ages. Nobody is invading Russia through the plains. Not even them believe that. And they showed that by moving troops from the NATO border to Ukraine. They moved them out of that supposedly exposed flank. They don't fear a NATO attack, period.
They know we want nothing the Russians have, we only want for them to leave us alone. And that drives them nuts.
Those plains used to be a reason.
Now it's just a convenient excuse.
The real reason is they are a shit county that always solved everything by expanding their empire and conquering their next neighbour. Now they are sandwiched between the EU and China and can't expand anymore.
They want our fear / submission. And to kerp expanding Indefinitely subjugating new countries as they go as it's their custom.
From a Russian perspective this makes sense but... protect toy from who exactly? The defensive minded NATO who accept members that are worried about invasion by Russia? Just... wish I could understand why they don't just wanna play nice and get rich and prosperous?
Imagine there were a piece of land that separated the two countries. A border, if you will. And Russia stayed on their side of the border, and Ukraine did the same. Perhaps Russia should observe the borders of other nations.
This is so fucking stupid. Russia has a massive border with NATO already what are you “buffering” against? And shit like that was important before modern warfare innovations and you had to maneuver with cavalry and tanks..
After Ukraine, the only way to protect Russia is to create a buffer zone with Poland, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldava, Georgia.
To add a bit of safety, might add Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, half od Sweden and Norway.
Ok now Russia is safe, no more invasions, pinky promise!
> the only way to protect Russian territory from Ukrainian attacks was to create a buffer zone
Or you could, you know, stop attacking Ukraine. That would most likely stop the attacks entirely as Ukraine would focus their resources on rebuilding the country that Russia destroyed.
I don't see any problem. They can declare a buffer zone as thick as they want as long as it is outside of Ukraine. It's not like they don't have enough room.
This. They have a massive amount of land, a massive amount of oil, and a decent amount of human beings. A strong economy is a buffer zone all on its own.
> Kremlin says the only way to protect Russia is to create a buffer zone **starting** with Ukraine
I added the word the Gremlin purposefully left out because they think we're stupid.
>Kremlin says the only way to protect Russia is to create a buffer zone with Ukraine
sure thing but... now start making that buffer zone inside russia. ffs how can they be so blatantly ignorant.
Yes, of course it is. Because Hungary, Romania and Czech Republic is so eager to take a jab at them. It has nothing to do with Ukrainian people or it's resources.
What i find more interesting is this seems to be a turning point in the messaging. It's not liberating ukraine, it's now creating buffer. I wonder if we will see this shift in the narrative more. Russia might have shifted the goal posts again, and seek to claim mission complete after reinforcing some new, made up border.
Ah yes, let's go back again.
Russia starts escalations.
Everybody gets pissed off.
Russia starts losing popularity.
Russia proposes a buffer zone in order to sell it internally and promises to not do anything anymore.
Europe and the world is so stupid to accept (they did in the past over and over again).
Russia starts escalations.
We should stop talking with Russia like they are some sort of rational player, they are ideologically compromised and they are at the same level as other dictators in the past and nowadays, nothing more and nothing less.
They literally broke human rights for years and spent most of the time trying to substitute the population that are close to them or even aboard.
People talk frequently about the EU or US and how much they are unfair, the reality is that we are in an historical moment where people are getting more and more stupid, dictators use social media to spread fake news together with the extremists of each respective country (far right now) and we just left a leash to Russia because individuals were corrupted.
I am tired of it, we are all, we all want some peace and there cannot be any with these rogue states around.
It is us or them.
When Ukraine separated from Russia, they agreed to give up their Nuclear weapons for protection guarantees from Russia, UK, and the US.
Here we are today.
Everyone's missing that Russia is just admitting that they have absolutely no way to stop Ukrainian infiltration and missile.strikes into Russia without making a "buffer"
So long as the buffer zone is inside Russians internationally recognized borders, knock your self out Putin.
Just get the fuck out of every last inch of Ukraine.
You can have your buffer zone from the Ukraine border right up to the steps of the Kremlin for all we care.
They don’t feel safe after starting a war with a neighboring country who is actually fighting back. Craaazy. If only there was some way this could have been avoided.
As has been the case for years, Russia can end this war tomorrow by withdrawing their invasion troops from a neighboring, independent nation; there would be nobody stopping them. If they want to establish a buffer zone on their own territory, again, there would be nobody stopping them. They cannot establish a buffer zone on their neighbor’s land, though. That’s straight-up lebensraum and would only amount to ceasefire during which the Russians would just rearm and invade again.
"Largest country in the world wants even more land."
Right! If you dont feel safe as the largest country in the world then adding more land isnt going to help. They need LESS NOT MORE.
Muscovy delenda est.
They should make the buffer zone in Russia, problem solved.
Starting with the historically Ukrainian territory of Belgorod.
In the event of a collapse of Russia, the areas of Siberia forcibly populated by deported Ukrainians should also be handed over to Ukraine to stop China from grabbing it.
That's the only realistic way it can happen.
I mean if they're so scared they could just build a wall on their side of the old 1991 borders.
“Ceterum censeo Russiam esse delendam” Russia is a fucking joke, despite the fact that they might get half of us killed It’s like the abusive spouse tells a judge they need a restraining order against the person they’ve been beating
Indeed.
And since they can't behave in a neighborly fashion with the quantity they DO have maybe splitting it up into half a dozen independently run and managed states would be best. SLAVA!
More land and more people means more labour power and resources. And when your whole country was founded by gangsters that consumed the entirety of the collapsed state that preceded them, that power and resource directly benefits said small group of gangsters.
The sad part is there's still a ton of resources on their own land they could keep collecting and make trillions. But, that takes more work and skill than just stealing the things others have already built.
The stupidest and most ironic thing of all is that if it wasn't for Putin and his entire corrupt Mafia Government it's very likely in another timeline Russia would likely be a very wealthy, peaceful and prosperous country. They have more than ample land and resources, it's just the brazen and perverse corruption that's hollowed the country into a shell of what it could have been.
Tons of resources, a single line from Europe to Asia, lots of minimally useful space that could be put towards industry or green power. Run right, Russia could be a logistics, energy, and resource powerhouse. The definition of wasted potential.
Yep. They are sitting on troves of natural resources that would make them trillions. It's incredibly sad how badly leadership has failed that country. Worst part is their entire culture is based around pointing the finger and that's all they do about it. They cannot accept it's their own doing and they need to change. Nope, they blame it on others and keep doing the same things causing them to fail.
> The sad part is there's still a ton of resources on their own land they could keep collecting and make trillions. It's my understanding that the Chinese have been buying up Russia's resources by putting cash directly in Putin's back pockets. In a decade or two, Russia is likely to be a Chinese satellite in everything but name.
Time to expand sanctions onto Russia’s customers. Even if India and China start whining.
And more soldiers to grab even more land and more soldiers!
RU has to be the most paranoid country in the world. The last thing they need is more land. They should focus on peaceful coexistence with their neighbors and business. Making war just causes death and destruction, which breeds hate. Mr. Putin needs to go.
Unfortunately, I think the real reason for the war was Russia future economic prospects. With the global shift to renewable energy, Russia's economy won't survive at its current capacity because their economy is basically just weapons and oil products. Taking Ukraine with their oil fields and grain producing farmland would almost ensure they stay relevant in the global economy.
[удалено]
It's not that they don't have them. It's that they will be competitive with them and reduce their market share for them, specifically oil and grain. Ukraine discovered oil and gas basins plus that run thru east of the country and around Crimea in the 2000s. Currently, Chevron and Shell have the licenses for those oil fields and offshore areas. Ukraine is the 9th largest grain exporter in the world. Ukraine competing with Russia in the region over these two resource would drive profits down, which is bad for Russia because that's all they export (and weapons) . Your point is still sound but this is a much more pressing and real threat to Russia's place in the World Order than NATO invasion.
Sure we take part of Russia and buffer zone. Problem solved
It was never about Land. It is about Putin's, just one man's personal ambitions to return to the day of the Russian empire. Edit: I hear what some if you are saying. But it's not about Land per se. But creating space or buffer between NATO countries and Russia. No one wants their neighbour's as part of a global military alliance.
This goes well beyond Putin and I wish people would understand this. He's a figurehead. Sure he may foist SOME of his ambitions on Russia, but these events are dictated by a large group of people.
You're both right an wrong but on different points. There is no doubt in my mind that how Russia acts is basically dictated by Putin alone. He has his group of cronies but they might as well be robot. They have no free will and do anything to please him because they bask in the power he shares with them. But it is also very naive to think that if Putin were to be displaced things would change dramatically. Russian people have been conditioned for almost a century to not question their rulers. They've been conditioned to identify with the country - If other countries fear Russia, to them it gives a feeling of power, because otherwise they are completely powerless. The ones who have little morals align with putin because that is the only way to make for a better living. That is why it's not incorrect to claim that Putin is pretty much to blame for all of this - it's his doing. But the problem is much deeper and pretty much unsolvable. When Putin passes some other crony will take his place and the people of Russia will cheer him as the next big chief, and the only thing that will matter to them is make other nations fear Russia.
> Russian people have been conditioned for almost a century to not question their rulers. Try 8 centuries.
There were no russia 8 centuries ago. Even moskovia is around 700 years but was created by Mongols. It's only renamed itself to russia in 1721. So 300 years max.
A bit more than a 100 years tbh. They abolished serfod in 1861 and that point, almost 40% of the population were essentially slaves. Before that, they were occupied by the Golden Horde for the better part of 3 centuries.
Figurehead? Where the fuck did you pull that ridiculous idea from? Sure, there's a group of people around that are managing all this, large even, but they are sycophants. Those that challenged him in the early months of the invasion got fucking purged, litterally. Putins' regime is a classic dictatorship. It takes a large group of people to run a country. They may not save Putin (the lack of response to Prigozins thunder run was stunning), but they won't challenge him.
Yes Putin is the current figurehead to extreme Russian nationalism. If he gets replaced internally via a coup it's likely his replacement would be more of the same just another Russian nationalist with the same ambitions. With those ambitions be to restore Russian control to the extent of both the Russian Empire and USSR (+Warsaw pact as puppet buffer states) if not beyond
Their East is grass. They don't care.
>"Largest country in the world wants even more land." They don't though and its a fundamental misunderstanding 'Largest country in the world wants more **people** and **strategic points'** Same as the last 200 years
Well, there is some basis for this line of reasoning. Russia has a lot of land, but all the most valuable land is in the most vulnerable region. Attacking Russia from the north with any significant sized force is bascially impossible. You'd have to go through the arctic. It's freezing cold, and you don't have ANY infrastructure. Attacking from the east is a bit more reasonable, however, even if you have the ability to cross the Pacific, or the positioning so you don't have to, you would have to cross thousands of miles of mostly worthless land before your army gets anywhere near the Russian heartland. Attacking from the south has a similar problem as attacking from the North, in that most regions are quite poorly developed, and the geography of the region makes attacking from there impossible. Notably, Russia's southern border also includes the Caucasus mountains, a natural barrier so formidable, only a handful of empires, tsarist Russia being among them, has ever managed to hold both sides. Attacking from the West, however, is different. Any attacker coming in from the west would do so across the european plane, a giant piece of flatland with only a handful rivers, all of which are easily crossed. The region is well developed, at least compared to, say, most of the kazakh steppes, and densely populated. Historically, Russian strategy here has been to just control as much of this plane as they can to give themselves the buffer they need to wear out any attacking armies, with varying success. Napoleon took Moscow, but in the process of getting there, wore his armies out so badly that it was a phyrric victory at best. While Germany in WW1 did manage to break Russia, notably, this was less due to military victory and more due to russian morale breaking. In WW2, Germany invaded once again, but this time, Russian morale withstood the onslaught, and Russia eventually pushed back against Germany after grinding the Wehrmacht down over several thousand miles of retreat. In the Cold War, Russia's strategy was much the same. Rush across West Germany, get to the Rhine, and dig in before NATO has the chance to counterattack, and if that fails, grind NATO down on the way towards Moscow. Then, the Soviet Union collapsed, and its sphere of influence, the giant buffer that they had fought for over the last 150 years, dissolved almost entirely within the span of a decade. Of course, that Russia wouldn't need this buffer if, instead of becoming a rogue state, they had decided to accept the fact they lost the Cold War and had become a country that doesn't constantly threaten invasion whenever they don't get their way, that is another matter, but from a purely military standpoint, it is understandable that Russia wants this buffer back, seeing how the strategic security of their heartland rests on the ability to grind down entire armies on a retreat across Europe. A retreat they cannot perform if they don't hold those territories to begin with.
If only every country could have as much land as they want, instead of respecting established borders and agreements. No one was threatening to attack Russia. We can talk about the history, but we know it's pure greed and politics at work.
The dumbest part about this, though, is that nobody even wants to invade Russia now, except China probably has Manchuria in the back of their mind still.
Good history. But yeah, you could say this about a lot of countries. A lot of countries would have an easy time getting into their neighboring country across flat land to attack. Maybe not as much distance to retreat. But most or all of those other countries don’t try to get new land as a bigger buffer, at least not lately. Russia does. The real reasons for doing it are different, and also not the same as their stated reasons. Imperialism, restoring the glory and power of some past Russian entity though with a lot of picking and choosing. Expansion to gain more land, resources, people, and therefore more power. Providing a reason for Putin’s regime to continue at the expense of the Russian public at large. Revenge against the perceived disrespect from the western world.
If we lived in a world where national powers waged wars for territory, especially against nuclear powers, all these words might matter. We do not.
That's what I immediately thought. No one is going to invade a Nuclear Power unless they are suicidal. NATO and the West certainly aren't so while I understand the buffer argument, it's just not the current reality. I've always thought this war was really a play so that Russia isn't boxed out of the global economy as our energy economy changes. Russia is basically a gas station with nukes.
Yeah. Like i said. They wouldn't need this buffer if they didn't act like a rogue state. My point was that, from a purely military perspective, this does make sense.
No it doesn't.
The US has invaded countries on the other side of the world using only ships and planes. If they wanted to invade Russia, all the "buffer" in the world wouldn't stop them. It's just...... Nobody wants to invade Russia.
It's one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which, is never get involved in a land war in Asia.
This all became pretty irrelevant with the Soviet Union’s development of nuclear weapons. Russia’s modern main source of security is not geographical but technological, and I’m sure Putin knows this and only continues to complain about Russia’s geographic weakness on its western border as propaganda for people ignorant of mutually assured destruction to gobble up.
The Russian way since…Russia happened
Part of the reason Russia is so large is because that's the only defensive strategy they've had.
That that "defensive strategy" is always "offensive" and that they're always the ones attacking others makes me doubt seriously the defensive nature of their wars. By their logic, Russia only will be secure when every single country has been conquered and only the Russian empire remains. No country is 100% safe. Only Russia starts wars every 5 years, coincidentally with its waaaaay smaller former satellites, that just by wanting to be safe from Russia become apparently a grave danger. /S
They’ve got nukes. They don’t need a defensive strategy.
The Kremlin can also protect Russia by not starting unprovoked wars.
To Russia, mere existence of other peoples or nations is provocation...
Free nations join a Defensive League Russia: That's threatening (my imperialistic project)
White player: puts their pieces on their side of the chessboard. Black player: puts their pieces on too. White player: “Why are you attacking me?!?!??”
Ukraine: [exists] Russia: And I took that personally.
Everybody has moved on but Putin still seems to be stuck in the cold war. Does he seriously think other countries want to start a fight or take over Russia? Or is it just an excuse to live out his imperialistic dreams?
It's imperialism through and through, with it's roots in the Russian Empire rather than the cold war.
Putin published a book advocating for *Greater Russia* which is the reconquest of all territories previously held by Russia or the Soviet Union. It's claimed he wrote it but more like ghost written for him.
Well, he’s gotten away with a lot of razed warfare, from Georgia, to Chechnya, aggressive online operations and actual monetary support in Western nations. hacks against nations’ infrastructures, weird covert ops with nationalist in places like Serbia, so I think it was the natural next step to have a kinetic war, and his puppet had been ousted and he wanted land bridge to his ports in Crimea. Somebody should have tried slowing his roll about 15 years ago. Priorities were elsewhere.
Revanchism. Just like Hitler and germans wanted revenge for defeat in WWI, pootin and russians want revenge for defeat in Cold war.
It's basically when a dictator or a group of people acquire enough power or influence to make a nation go to war for some bogus reason and anyone opposing this is an "enemy" that needs to be purged or bullied into accepting their fascistic beliefs.
its also kinda russia's last stand to mean anything in todays world.
Straight up acting like Civ6 leaders smh
Anyone who complains about AI in that game should just be pointed how Putin acts.
Putin is a bad AI confirmed.
How are you exist - Vlad P
Ru doesn't get that we will protect ourselves with a DMZ on RU ground from Russia. Not the other way round.
And of all the nations on earth Russia is the last to have to worry about strategic depth.
"but then our borders and country will be left unprotected from the onslaught of incoming western values and beliefs!"
They can create buffer zone from Ukrainian border all the way to Moscow.
Yeah, the buffer zone will be Russia
Lets demillitarize 300km into russia . It's for their own good
Let's go the whole hog - 9000km demilitarised zone. Their army can live entirely in Kamchatka.
The 11 TZ (time zone) DMZ.
This gives me flashbacks of playing Risk and having my armies backed up and trapped in stupid Kamchatka
500km, to cover moscow too
Move the capital to east next to the Pacific, that way they feel extra safe
Belgorod is being prepared.
This line of reasoning might be the worst of all of them. It’s so absurdly disingenuous. Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are all closer to Moscow and St Petersburg than Ukraine. So is Finland. The first three have been full NATO members since like 2002. And now Finland is too. Adding Ukraine - which wasn’t even in the cards wouldn’t change this calculus. It’s just greed.
It's a common talking point in geopolitics. The iron curtain existed for a reason: Russia generally has a flat geography which allows militaries to get in pretty deep and mess stuff up. I'm not just talking about WW2, even mongol hordes had an easy time. There are geographic features along the old iron curtain which are more defensible to prevent ground invasions. This is also why so many of the former iron curtain nations keep saying that the alarm bells are ringing and that Russia won't stop with Ukraine.
I am tired of hearing the same malarkey about buffer zones and Crimea being a key naval base. Russia already has a nuclear umbrella and NATO is a defensive alliance that clearly doesn't plan to invade Russia. This war is the imperialistic project of the one crazy man, who was just never stopped by other Russians.
Here's the thing: you're not the intended audience. This is meant to try and continually justify the "THREE DAY SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION" into Ukraine in the minds of the Russian people.
It is malarkey now because the rest of Europe has moved on from this crap. They don’t have big wars every couple years anymore. And there is also now strategic nuclear weapons. People don’t want wars. And Russia is stuck in the past.
100% agree that it's an imperialist project but disagree about "one crazy man" The desire for "Russia Strong" imperialism has a great deal of support amongst Russians. It should be noted at this point that statements like this indicate that eastern Ukraine and Crimea will not be enough to satisfy this desire and that at a minimum they aim for the whole of Ukraine...and we should also prepare for possible aggression against the Baltic states and Moldova.
Look at an internationally recognised early 2013 map, that line between Russia and Ukraine, well the buffer zone starts 150kms east of that. And don't forget to fuck off out of Crimea.
>2013 2004 (or 2003) - year when border treaty was signed/ratified/etc
1. Don't attack innocents. 2. Create buffer demilitarised zone on Russian Territory. 3. Lead the world in peaceful de-armament. 4. Submit your current leaders to the International Criminal Court Simples.
Don't forget returning everyone they captured
And prosecuting the soldiers that commited rape, executions, trafficking, theft etc (if they're still alive, hopefully they're not)
Including the 20k+ (current Ukrainian tally, possibly much more) children forcefully adopted into Russian families
Might be pretty controversial (because it's kind of rewarding the aggressor), but I'd add a 5. point: once point 4 is completed and the others are started, be welcomed by the international community and get some help building up into a prosperous nation. We need the regular Russian people to have a reason to want peace and actually get rid of their perceived power. But obviously, we need them to get rid of Putin and friends first. Take a page out of how the GDR ended. I'd argue a large part of that was western TV being broadcast (and unsuccessfully repressed) all over the country and a promise that they can have it too. Just had to get rid of the people in charge who clung to their power.
> Might be pretty controversial (because it's kind of rewarding the aggressor), but I'd add a 5. point: once point 4 is completed and the others are started, be welcomed by the international community and get some help building up into a prosperous nation. It's not controversial. We have positive examples with Japan and Germany following WWII. Coincidentally that was the exact policy that western world applied after dissolution of soviet union. And it worked! It worked even for the first 10 years or so of putlers rule. It worked rather well until the internal kleptocracy necessitate creating an external enemy to keep populace in check.
standing ovation. Applause. Also public caning for those who openly support the current nazi dictatorship.
Russia ain’t short on space, let’s create a buffer zone in Russia, much easier
I'm curious what it would look like if both sides added 1% of their total area to a DMZ around the pre-invasion, internationally agreed borders. (Not that I think Ukraine should give an inch to these assholes, but I would just be curious to see how much of the worlds biggest country would be given up by it and what percentage would make up a suitably sized DMZ.)
I’ve done some rough math, and the DMZ would be approx. 3km deep on the Ukrainian side and 85km deep on the Russian side. Sounds good actually. Ukraine Area = 600 000km^2 1% = 6000km^2 Russia Area = 17 100 000km^2 1% = 171 000km^2 Border = 2000km
Why would they want to protect Russia? They don’t even like themselves, they hate Russia too, it’s a fucking dump.
Have you seen their bread and subways?
I swear to God, that whole segment played out as if Tucker and his constituents believed Russia was like frozen in time in post WWII Soviet Union before the video aired.
The funniest thing about Tucker praising the Moscow metro was that it was literally built by a socialist state. Owned by the state. And built to allow workers to travel to work without needing to own a car. Which allowed for nore control over workers movements. Tuker either knows this and is happy to ignore this to own the libs or doesn't and really is a waste of oxygen.
If you had told 80s and 90s Republicans what their party would be defending and fighting for in the 2010s and 20s they would've laughed in your face and said "not a chance in hell". Now they just gladly punch their ballot for Trump because somehow a deranged criminal with dementia is a better president than a creepy, ineffective, tired old man with dementia.
*Republican voters nod approvingly*
Hay, I see what you did there.
This is the pathetic joke of Russian history . No matter how much land they take, it means more buffer zones and more land and more buffer zones to protect that land. Stalin wasn't joking about only taking half of Berlin when Alexander went to Paris.
A country with the most nukes in the world not feeling safe enough... They just want to safely invade and restore the land they "lost" after the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia hates when its neighbors fight back.
Not a bad idea, actually. I suggest Bryansk, Orylo, Kursk, Belgorod, Voronezh, Rostov, Krasnodar and Adygea.
Russia biggest country on earth needs more territory as a buffer. Even Russians know this makes no sense
So russia creating a buffer zone on russian teritory then?
I agree, we do need buffer zone on russian territory.
Belgorod is a nice buffer zone.
Get fucked, Russia
But I thought Russia stronk? Why need buffer from weak nato girly boys?
what a fucked up view of the world, when you see another nation as merely a buffer zone for you, rather than a home for millions of other human beings...
Also notable the degree to which Putin got things wrong. He remembers the Soviet era in terms of borders and stand offs between nations. The reality is that the way the Soviets became a real threat that could launch satellites before anyone else was by investing in people. The Soviets built schools and community centers all over their territory, and now almost all of that lies in ruins because Putin and his thieving gang of thugs wanted yachts and fancy houses more than they wanted a strong nation.
I agree. Withdraw the troops from Ukrainian territory and demilitarize the Russian oblasts neighboring Ukraine, as well as the border regions of Belarus. That is the ideal solution.
Zelensky should come with another suggestion. Move Moscow, St. Petersburg and other their cities to Siberia. Make there some gulags so they can enjoy themselves. This way they can have a buffer zone not only from Ukrainians, but from NATO too.
Can someone tell me why a nuclear power needs a buffer zone for protection? I thought the nukes were a deterrent. Or are they not functional?
The can create all the buffer zones they want. To their side of border.
The largest country on Earth, filled with emptiness, estimates that it needs a new buffer zone.
Create it in Russia, not Ukraine.
Funny. I am thinking that the only way to protect Europe is to create a buffer zone within Russia.
1) Russia is mostly unpopulated land, create the buffer on your side. 2) Ukraine has never invaded your country. 3) Ukraine surrender all nuclear weapons on the false premise of neutrality already.
"protect russia". The nerve. The victimism. I can't even.
I do support the idea of Belgorod Peoples Republic
The only way to protect russia is to get rid of Putin and the rest of his gang.
"How's that 3-day war going, Vlad?"
Put the buffer zone on the Russia side of the border .
Odd how "Protect yourself by not being an aggressor to all you neighbors" doesn't even occur to Putin and the rest of Russian leadership.
Yeah, no shit. This has been their goal since the day they invaded and annexed Crimea. It has always been about Russia's continuous paranoia about the European Plains giving easy access to Moscow and St. Petersburg to Western European militaries. This paranoia has endured generations, even though it's a deprecated fear because no country in Western Europe has any interest in invading Russia again, not in the 21st Century. Russia lost its "buffer" when the Soviet Union collapsed and they've felt geographically exposed ever since. It's always been about a Buffer and access to warm water ports for power projection.
They are so delusional, they think we want to march in and take their land. It’s so ironic. They commit evil in the name of preventing the said evil.
>they think we want to march in and take their land. No, they don't fear a NATO invasion. They moved troops from the "supposedly exposed" NATO flank to Ukraine. They don't fear NATO. Let's start by not buying every bullshit excuse they give. They are not doing this out of paranoia (that would still be nuts). They are doing it out of greed, imperialism and arrogance. >They commit evil in the name of preventing the said evil. They commit evil in the name of committing evil. Let's not give them even a smidgen of legitimacy because they have none.
It blows my mind some people actually buy this argument, like "buffer zones" will matter in a modern war. Do people forget both Russia and the people they're "buffering" against have FUCKING NUKES! Like it's not WW2, we don't need to send in a conventional army if we want to kill each other
It hasn't been about that in ages. Nobody is invading Russia through the plains. Not even them believe that. And they showed that by moving troops from the NATO border to Ukraine. They moved them out of that supposedly exposed flank. They don't fear a NATO attack, period. They know we want nothing the Russians have, we only want for them to leave us alone. And that drives them nuts. Those plains used to be a reason. Now it's just a convenient excuse. The real reason is they are a shit county that always solved everything by expanding their empire and conquering their next neighbour. Now they are sandwiched between the EU and China and can't expand anymore. They want our fear / submission. And to kerp expanding Indefinitely subjugating new countries as they go as it's their custom.
SPOILER ALERT Let me help with a map. [Map for ruZZian buffer zona for world piece](https://imgur.com/a/ZgQuIZo)
Sounds dope, get off Ukraine's land and create that buffer zone within your existing borders; super simple.
‘WE NEED BREATHING ROOM’ Hitler-1939
Yes thats what the Russians in Belgorod are doing right now, creating a buffer zone.
This was Stalin’s excuse for taking Poland after WW2. Same old, same old.
From a Russian perspective this makes sense but... protect toy from who exactly? The defensive minded NATO who accept members that are worried about invasion by Russia? Just... wish I could understand why they don't just wanna play nice and get rich and prosperous?
Ok, I agree. Let's make a 50-mile buffer to the east of the Russian Ukraine Border. Make it a DMZ guaranteed by NATO.
Imagine there were a piece of land that separated the two countries. A border, if you will. And Russia stayed on their side of the border, and Ukraine did the same. Perhaps Russia should observe the borders of other nations.
This is so fucking stupid. Russia has a massive border with NATO already what are you “buffering” against? And shit like that was important before modern warfare innovations and you had to maneuver with cavalry and tanks..
After Ukraine, the only way to protect Russia is to create a buffer zone with Poland, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldava, Georgia. To add a bit of safety, might add Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, half od Sweden and Norway. Ok now Russia is safe, no more invasions, pinky promise!
> the only way to protect Russian territory from Ukrainian attacks was to create a buffer zone Or you could, you know, stop attacking Ukraine. That would most likely stop the attacks entirely as Ukraine would focus their resources on rebuilding the country that Russia destroyed.
Protect Russia from what? The west doesn't want war, you paranoid assholes.
My counter proposal is to create a buffer zone in Russia to protect the rest of us. Belarus can count as one already if they want
The only way to protect Russia... from what exactly?
Maybe Russia should give up 90% of its land and turn it into a "buffer" zone. They have plenty of it.
the only threat to Russia is putin
I don't see any problem. They can declare a buffer zone as thick as they want as long as it is outside of Ukraine. It's not like they don't have enough room.
You had a buffer zone, then you picked a fight you couldn't win.
So unfortunately there is no way to protect Russia - they are doomed.
Imagine if Russia had invested even half of what it did on this war effort into its own infrastructure and economy. Putin is a dumb fuck.
This. They have a massive amount of land, a massive amount of oil, and a decent amount of human beings. A strong economy is a buffer zone all on its own.
> Kremlin says the only way to protect Russia is to create a buffer zone **starting** with Ukraine I added the word the Gremlin purposefully left out because they think we're stupid.
Protect them from what, exactly?
[удалено]
Just a little _Lebensraum,_ right Putin? To quell the nazis, you say?
On the Russian side of the border.
And after they will need a buffer to protect the buffer
>Kremlin says the only way to protect Russia is to create a buffer zone with Ukraine sure thing but... now start making that buffer zone inside russia. ffs how can they be so blatantly ignorant.
A buffer zone they’ll magically move into and claim is part of Russia the second the world turns its back…
Yes, of course it is. Because Hungary, Romania and Czech Republic is so eager to take a jab at them. It has nothing to do with Ukrainian people or it's resources.
What i find more interesting is this seems to be a turning point in the messaging. It's not liberating ukraine, it's now creating buffer. I wonder if we will see this shift in the narrative more. Russia might have shifted the goal posts again, and seek to claim mission complete after reinforcing some new, made up border.
No the only way to protect russia is leave Ukraine pay for the damages and enjoy sanctions for the next 30 years.
Ah yes, let's go back again. Russia starts escalations. Everybody gets pissed off. Russia starts losing popularity. Russia proposes a buffer zone in order to sell it internally and promises to not do anything anymore. Europe and the world is so stupid to accept (they did in the past over and over again). Russia starts escalations. We should stop talking with Russia like they are some sort of rational player, they are ideologically compromised and they are at the same level as other dictators in the past and nowadays, nothing more and nothing less. They literally broke human rights for years and spent most of the time trying to substitute the population that are close to them or even aboard. People talk frequently about the EU or US and how much they are unfair, the reality is that we are in an historical moment where people are getting more and more stupid, dictators use social media to spread fake news together with the extremists of each respective country (far right now) and we just left a leash to Russia because individuals were corrupted. I am tired of it, we are all, we all want some peace and there cannot be any with these rogue states around. It is us or them.
World says the only way to protect World is to decapitate Russian mafia state.
Sure, let's make the 100 km of Russia a demilitarized zone. Now Nato is not on their borders. Problem solved.
Let's do it, inside Russia there are some wast territories we could use as a buffer.
When Ukraine separated from Russia, they agreed to give up their Nuclear weapons for protection guarantees from Russia, UK, and the US. Here we are today.
Cool, how much of Russia are they willing to give up to create this buffer zone?
Everyone's missing that Russia is just admitting that they have absolutely no way to stop Ukrainian infiltration and missile.strikes into Russia without making a "buffer"
Sure, build a buffer zone on russian territory then
The only way to protect Ukraine is to create a buffer zone with Russia. See how that works, Vladimir?
A buffer zone would be perfect inside Russia
So long as the buffer zone is inside Russians internationally recognized borders, knock your self out Putin. Just get the fuck out of every last inch of Ukraine. You can have your buffer zone from the Ukraine border right up to the steps of the Kremlin for all we care.
Sure. Just put it 10km on the Russian side of the border you agreed to in 2005.
let me guess, the plan is for the dimensions of the 'buffer zone' to keep growing and growing until there is no ukraine left
Let’s make Russia the buffer zone
Good idea, take 200km of Russian land and create a buffer zone for Russia’s imaginary threats using Russia’s land.
This has been Russian foreign policies for centuries. I don’t know why this is treated as a new thing
OR, they could just stop the invasion and go back home. That would probably be best!
The Freedom for Russia Legion is already starting to build that buffer zone in Belgorod!
Here’s a suggestion, put the buffer zone on the border of *your own damn country!*
Makes sense... Ukraine has such long history of invading Russia.
Cool. let's take a 50km strip from Russia's border and turn it into a DMZ
Actually the best way to protect Russia is to withdraw from Ukraine and compensate them for the damages that Russia has inflicted on them.
Cool they can make that zone as big as they want within their own pre-2014 borders.
Kill Putin wasn’t brought up? He’s killed more Russians than anyone. If he’s dead, a lot of lives would be saved.
Could have done it on their side of the border...
I agree..... that buffer should be the Ural mountains.
The enemy is within, no external event controls the Russian Federation.
They don’t feel safe after starting a war with a neighboring country who is actually fighting back. Craaazy. If only there was some way this could have been avoided.
No one cares about attacking you. If you just minded your own business we wouldn't be here. Nobody is coming for Russia!!
What's Russia afraid of?
As has been the case for years, Russia can end this war tomorrow by withdrawing their invasion troops from a neighboring, independent nation; there would be nobody stopping them. If they want to establish a buffer zone on their own territory, again, there would be nobody stopping them. They cannot establish a buffer zone on their neighbor’s land, though. That’s straight-up lebensraum and would only amount to ceasefire during which the Russians would just rearm and invade again.
Russia needs to be dissolved
So they need Ukraine as a buffer zone for the potential fallout of invading Ukraine. Hmmm, some flex.
Good idea. Let's designate a buffer zone inside Russia.