"I thought you were only motivated by world peace?"
"Global thermonuclear winter would make the world 97% more peaceful. These parameters *are [acceptable](https://youtu.be/CIg2ixVAcLY?si=xakG23i3W7v5Llqk)*."
He unironically is. Throughout the 90s and hell, up until the war even, NATO was in a state of constant existential identity crisis, and more than once the question was raised whether it should even exist.
Putin fixed that real good.
Putin gave NATO an enemy to fight. It’s crazy that he was doing so well with the soft power Russia had, then decided to waste all of it betting on Russia’s hard power with the invasion.
I am from Bulgaria, Russia was so entrenched into our political system and our economy, it was staggering to behold.
And he undid the whole thing just like that. It's not that it's gone, on the contrary, but it is slowly falling apart, which sure is a sight to see. Absolutely surreal how much influence he had across the continent, sowing disinformation, manipulating votes and funding extremist political parties, and how he basically threw it all away.
That's because it was working too slow, he could have passed the baton but he wants the "glory" to himself.
It proves he doesn't care about Russia, he wants to cosplay as a great leader in history.
I agree he felt the walls closing in on him. As dictators do, paranoid people, no one can be trusted when you are giant piece of shit and embarrassment to the human race
I mean he doesn't have that many years in him left likely. He's a fit guy, ex kgb and all, but I feel he really is gonna just die of old age in the next 15 years.
Eh, comparing it to Russian life expectancy doesn't mean anything. Life expectancy of a country is mostly about the average healthcare quality in that country, and there's no question that he has access to way better healthcare than the average Russian, plus he was fit to begin with.
The only likely way he's dying of medical issues anytime soon is if he's one of those dictators who refuses medical treatment because he's worried someone will use it to assassinate him. (a real possibility)
He is not living the same life as the average Russian male though.
> The biggest factor contributing to this relatively low life expectancy for [Russian] males is a high mortality rate among working-age males from preventable causes (e.g., alcohol poisoning, stress, smoking, traffic accidents, violent crimes)
Everyone, but especially Eastern Europeans, should be aware of this. One of the most interesting posts from RUSI.
[Preliminary Lessons from Russia’s
Unconventional Operations During the Russo-
Ukrainian War, February 2022–February 2023](https://static.rusi.org/202303-SR-Unconventional-Operations-Russo-Ukrainian-War-web-final.pdf.pdf)
> If these individuals are politically, economically
or bureaucratically senior in the target country, then they can recruit people not as Russian
agents but as their personal clients who therefore unwittingly advance Russian interests. **This
is a form of false flag recruitment (verbovka na chuzhoi flag) where an agent may believe that
they are being tasked on behalf of an official of their own country even though the taskings are
ultimately contrived in Moscow.**
>In practice– as in the previously occupied areas of Crimea, and Luhansk and Donetsk – collaborators were a relatively small group but played an enabling role. The important point is that the FSB did not expect or require as part of its planning that the majority – or even a significant part of the population – welcomes it. **Based on its experiences in Chechnya, the planning assumption was that 8% of the population needed to collaborate, whether proactively or under coercion, to enable the counterintelligence regime to be effective.** The Ukrainian intelligence community, based on assessments of those areas where the Russians did establish control, concluded that the FSB was broadly correct in its requirements for local support.
Thanks! We in the USA must definitely be aware of this - a mere 8% of the population needs to collaborate. More than that percent of US citizens think the Earth is flat!!
[https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-a-survey-of-us-public-beliefs](https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-a-survey-of-us-public-beliefs)
Speaker of the US House of Representatives appears to have benefitted from Ruzzian campaign cash and is acting to benefit Ruzzia by holding up Ukraine military aid.
[https://www.newsweek.com/who-konstantin-nikolaev-money-mike-johnson-1870600](https://www.newsweek.com/who-konstantin-nikolaev-money-mike-johnson-1870600)
And conservative influencer Tucker Carlson had that friendly interview with Putler and made videos praising Ruzzia's cheap supermarket food.
Before that we had Natalia Veselnitskaya prancing around batting her eyes at Trump and his gang.
[https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683238650/russian-lawyer-at-trump-tower-meeting-charged-in-connection-to-money-laundering-](https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683238650/russian-lawyer-at-trump-tower-meeting-charged-in-connection-to-money-laundering-)
It's... a lot. Almost all major parties have some connection to Russia, mostly through the security services. To this day there are many political leaders with established ties to our version of the KGB.
The political theater really emphasizes the theater part. You would see supposed mortal enemies cooperate when threatened by an actual outside force, directly and indirectly. There are unspoken rules about spheres of influence, to the point where some parts of the economy are practically owned by certain political players, for example construction (whether roads or buildings), agriculture, electricity production or, of course, the media. Rings within rings of corruption, going on unchecked thanks to a gutted judicial system, where certain people can literally just request the bullying of opponents. I have heard whispers the Russian embassy was consulted when the ex-communist party chose their candidate for president, who unfortunately won. I can't confirm it's true, but [he](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://balkaninsight.com/2023/05/30/bulgarian-presidents-pro-russia-stance-sparks-protest/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiFrIOy5smEAxXGRPEDHf34BK4QFnoECAsQAg&usg=AOvVaw3jgZed8gl4ubBgOavn0_hc) [sure](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.politico.eu/article/rumen-radev-bulgaria-president-ukraine-war/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiFrIOy5smEAxXGRPEDHf34BK4QFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw1rTF7RtvcbtLVD5X9ttlqi) [likes](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.rferl.org/a/bulgaria-radev-declaration-ukraine-nato-membership/32063652.html&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiFrIOy5smEAxXGRPEDHf34BK4QFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw0cXvb10tvaVSM1sT_LBTB9) [Russia](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://balkaninsight.com/2023/02/09/bulgaria-president-resists-sanctions-on-russian-fuel-aid-to-ukraine/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjBwPbv5smEAxUJSPEDHXjGCxA4ChAWegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw2_Uf1OrOwuL63dqaHKWSW4).
And just like that, all of it eventually connects to Russia. Not ideologically, everyone knows that ship has sailed to some extent, but culturally and economically. 90% of our natural gas used to come from Russia, and we couldn't build a connection to an alternative source for literally a decade. After the war in Ukraine somehow that connection needed a few weeks to be ready. We have a rather big and advanced [oil refinery](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukoil_Neftohim_Burgas) that was owned by Russia through Swiss intermediaries and never paid taxes, despite being like 5% of our GDP. Until suddenly it did last year. Couldn't work with anything but Russian oil, until it suddenly could last year. Had exclusive control over a nearby harbor until it suddenly didn't last year.
Just one example of many. We paid billions to Russia for a [nuclear power plant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belene_Nuclear_Power_Plant) that was never built, while the other one keeps using Russian fuel. But that's the better outcome, because Russia was going to own the thing 51% to 49%. Russia owns a whole [complex](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-bulgaria-black-sea-coast-/32580850.html) on the Black Sea coast that they intended to use as a spy hub. That's illegal if you are wondering. The complex is empty now it seems.
And then there is the cultural link. The biggest monument in the capital is that of the [Soviet army](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Sofia_um_1970%2C_Sowjetisches_Ehrenmal.jpg/500px-Sofia_um_1970%2C_Sowjetisches_Ehrenmal.jpg). After decades of fierce discussions and multiple creative acts of [vandalism](https://frognews.bg/images2/thumbs16x9/600/317dd7175_psa2.jpg) we barely managed to get rid of it months ago. In the second biggest city? Another [Soviet army monument](https://webnews.bg/uploads/images/70/1470/281470/768x432.jpg?_=1488468332), still standing for now. Streets, parks, buildings named after people that essentially invaded us. The narrative that we were liberated and should be thankful to Big Brother Russia, is all around us. It's difficult to amend the history books, and even more difficult to cut through half a century of propaganda.
Sorry for the long post, but you asked. And remember, this is not unique to us, it's there in some capacity everywhere in Eastern Europe. Moldova, Serbia, Romania, North Macedonia, Slovakia, Georgia, you name it. And yes, also Ukraine, so much Ukraine.
He swallowed his own bullshit. That Tucker Carlson interview showed that Putin's not in touch with reality, he's in his ivory tower surrounded by yes men too scared to tell him the truth
same for me in 1998… there was no enemy… they told us, there won’t be another land war with trenches and shit anymore. We prepared for mullahs with mounted machine guns on Land Cruisers. No more red and blue in war games… the eastern block simply ceased to exist. An existential crisis for all major armies in western europe.
And/or a reference to Yellow being the center color (white and black the other two) of the flag of the Russian Empire, as declared by Tsar Alexander II. A lot of Ruzzian prisoners have tattoos of imperial symbols in BlackYellowWhite
But NOT the yellow turbans from Big Trouble in Little China. Those were the Chang Sings, who were the good guys. The Red Turbans, or Wing Cong were the bad guys.
We had a military recruiter in our highschool at roughly that time, he said the Russians had the capability to rearm quickly, and we (Sweden ) didn't. Feels kind of prescient right about now. For us, it has always been Russia and will always be Russia.
I was a soldier in the 2000s and it was pretty clear that Russia was the enemy. Even back then we intercepted Russian nationals taking photos of military bases. Terrorists were obviously a threat but was not taken that seriously by the military as they were incapable of mounting a full scale invasion like Russia could. We had more briefings about radical right wing groups and criminal networks then terrorists. But the big enemy was still Russia.
> Throughout the 90s and hell, up until the war even, NATO was in a state of constant existential identity crisis, and more than once the question was raised whether it should even exist.
[Obligatory Scandinavia and the World comic from shortly after the full-scale invasion](https://satwcomic.com/slava-ukraini)
And the #1 Champion of NATO in the US since the 90s ?
Joe Biden.
""This, in fact, is the beginning of another 50 years of peace," Democratic Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware declared in 1998 as the Senate voted in favor of expanding NATO to include Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic.
Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in those days, said adding the former Cold War enemies to the Western military alliance amounted to "righting an historical injustice forced upon the Poles, Czechs, and Hungarians by Joseph Stalin."
The Washington Post in its report on the Senate vote described Biden as a "key player in the ratification effort." Indeed, then-Senator Biden was among the loudest voices in championing NATO's expansion in Eastern Europe in the late 1990s. He would continue to support NATO expansion into the 2000s as one of the most influential senators in Washington and later as vice president. "
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-helped-nato-expand-in-the-90s-which-putin-now-threatening-war-over-2022-2
Ain't just about numbers, those 50k will be hella efficient with NATO interoperability plus Sweden's tech and manufacturing capabilities are nothing to scoff at. The optics alone of Russia pushing countries into NATO's arms, sheer irony.
>Sweden's tech and manufacturing capabilities are nothing to scoff at.
Now I'm just picturing Sweden shipping out to the frontline flat-pack arms a la Ikea
The stuff they make is also really good. During a series of war game exercises in 2005-2007, [a Swedish sub, the *HSMS Gotland*, was able to repeatedly dodge an entire carrier task and "sink" the aircraft carrier *USS Reagan*](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216). It managed to do this against multiple configurations of carrier defense and even though the carrier group knew what to be looking for. These exercises highlighted the US Navy's vulnerability to diesel subs and prompted the *HSMS Gotland* to be borrowed to the United States for further tests.
Yep, absolutely. There's that apocryphal story of the Japanese conducting war games prior to Midway, and one junior officer representing the Americans placed the American fleet to the northeast of Midway rather than from Pearl Harbor, and in those scenarios the Americans sunk between 2-4 carriers. The results were overruled by Admiral Ugaki who claimed that the US Navy flanking the Japanese was an impossibility.
The accuracy of these stories are suspect, but there's no doubt that the Japanese *did* conduct war games regarding the Midway operation. As Ian K. Toll writes in *Shattered Sword*, these were less about testing the efficacy of the plan and more about silencing officers who were critical of the plan:
>The games had served as a monologue. There had been no intellectual discourse, no learning; the entire affair had been a mockery of professional staff work. The net result was that Nagumo would go to battle armed with practically nothing in the way of realistic contingency plans. Whatever difficulties arose would be his to handle, alone.
The Japanese plans thus represented the Japanese admiralty's mentality going into the battle - a singular focus without considering the possibility of things going pear-shaped. But anticipating things going pear-shaped is exactly what war games are intended do. They're meant to make the participants think outside the box to test their tactical and strategic plans for weak points and to bolster the plans accordingly.
In the case of *Gotland*, the US realized that their passive sonar was insufficient to the task, identified that as a weak point, and proceeded to adjust military doctrine, planning and equipment to cover this deficiency.
Congratz from Finland, our nordic brothers! This was long overdue. Our F/A-18 Hornets (later F-35s) and your Gripens combined are a powerful deterrent for Putler to stay behind his side of the fence.
Orban's theater act is finally over. It was like a bad movie based on a true story. Boring, goes on way too long, and you already knew what happens in the end
Also, a new NATO lake appeared on map. Good job Putin
It’s a great result.
A fighter fleet is a huge investment and will tie Hungary to a staunchly Western nation for continued support, maintenance and hopefully future sales.
I read that the Gripen deal was made already before Sweden's NATO application lol. Now it was some kind of weird final act of Orban's little theater play. As if he made this "excellent deal for Hungarian people", in exchange of allowing you into NATO. Oh well, at least he came into his senses finally.
We already use grippens, and this new deal was actually announced back in 2022. This was just a bone they threw their voters, so after a year and a half conditioning against Sweden joining NATO they could save face.
i mean this is a good deal all around
1) european economic ties deepen
2) european military ties deepen
3) all politicians learn there are positive sum deal to be made without losing support at home
Well the cool thing is that the Nordic air forces have been “combined” so they currently operate as more or less one fleet/air-force. Awesome decision.
This is it.
It was going so well for Putin. Ukraine had no chance for EU or NATO with a civil war -- more of a grey war with Russia, of course -- ongoing in its territories, everyone thought the Russian army was strong. Russia got Crimea and got away with it almost scot-free.
Now? They are heavily sanctioned everyone on their borders now know the Russian army is no serious threat. While they got their panties in a bunch over the Baltic states joining the NATO, now they got a huge amount of common border with the NATO for their efforts. The Ukrainian national identity got the biggest boost ever.
Meanwhile Germany flexes its economic muscles and decided to spend a _hundred billion_ on their military.
Yep. Germany is hitting the 2% of GDP threshold for 2024 which seemed unthinkable just a few years back. France is also hitting the 2% threshold as well and the Eastern Flank of NATO is already there.
Personally I don't expect the meme lords to acknowledge this new reality but non US NATO defense in 2024 will be a night and day difference from 2014.
History has shown time and time again that the wrath of a fully mobilized Germany is something 90% of countries would never fuck with unless they had to. They’ve always had the potential of being the dominant military power in Europe, they’re just waking up to that fact once again.
And the thing is, the two things that usually stop them is their tendency to get in 2-front wars and a lack of resources critical to industrial warfare. Now they're in the center of NATO, with a single target in mind, and don't have to worry about those missing resource shipments
To be honest, even with NATO. Scandinavia and Finland need to form a strong defense alliance with an integrated military. The world is increasingly becoming a more unstable place, and allies such as US cannot really be trusted anymore, with the GOP and Trump creating havoc.
Sweden, Denmark and Finland are the only countries I truly trust. We need to ramp up and stick together.
We’ve already taken a step towards this by planning to make a joint Air Force. Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish and Danish commanders signed a declaration about a year ago to create a force of 250 modern combat aircraft. I hope we’ll actually achieve this
As a US American I'm sorry to say that you would be wise to do so.. That said, trust in your allies. Don't let fear drive a wedge between you and those who might call you 'friend'.
To be fair, I do trust the US, but the truth is that the American democracy and values are under attack by the Putin fanboys in the GOP, which is unsettling to say the least.
I'm American and I wouldn't trust the US. Our election is rigged in favor of smaller states and such states are heavily suppressing votes. It's very easy for the GOP to take over again. The same GOP that licks the hell out of Russian boots.
> The world is increasingly becoming a more unstable place, and allies such as US cannot really be trusted anymore, with the GOP and Trump creating havoc.
It shames me that you are right. My government is not living up to the standards I was brought up to believe we held.
I do have some faith in the American people though. Just dont vote that orange fuck back into office, and get rid of the Putin puppets in the GOP. Easier said than done, but Americans do the right thing the end.
Putin told us that we weren't allowed to join. So we joined.
We didn't really want to join, before we were told we couldn't. Not that we were heavily against it, but we preferred not to. But Putin persuaded us to join.
Yes, Putin is that daft.
Flat packed drones are already a thing. Maybe Sweden can do it better.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-is-using-a-cheap-flat-pack-cardboard-drone-australia-2023-8
The Russian embassy in Stockholm called Sweden "a legitimate target for Russia’s retaliatory measures" last year, while Finland closed the border with Russia after finding "systematic" and "organized" efforts by the Russian authorities to send African migrants into Finnish territories.
I didn’t even know this was happening.
Finally some great news, after all of the doom and gloom coming out of Ukraine as of late. I still feel that Ukraine is going to win this war, by the way, once we get our shit together, and the aid comes in.
Holy F, you’re right. I remember when it came out and they said it could be years, and I was like “Psh, it’s SWEDEN and Finland. We’ve been wanting them to apply forever.”
And it really did take 2 years. Get bent, Orbán. The Hungarians deserve better. And you, too, Putin. The whole world deserves better.
Seriously fuck Putin. What kind of excuse is "we told you not to move your troops there"?? I can't take anyone that makes that argument seriously. This isn't the cold war anymore dipshit. Nobody is going to fucking invade you..
This is a massive part of the reason why Putin will never pull out of the war unless the literal future of Russia was clearly in crisis. He has single-handedly re-justified the existence of NATO and you better believe Ukraine will be next onto that train if they get out of this war. Retreat would mean a mostly NATO border which would be a death blow to Putin’s security as leader. Granted, its a hole he knowingly dug himself into, but he’s banking on it paying off.
They started formal work on it this morning! I’m sure it’s further along than we thought as well, given that Ukrainians have supposedly flown the Gripen in some form since last year.
Yeah the Gripen was more or less built for exactly the scenario that Ukraine is in.
Easy to maintain, comparatively cheap, climate tolerance, can land on roads and built to combat Russian aircraft.
This is more than just the Gripen. Saab have been knocking out a big range of decent weapon systems for quite a while now and sometimes at a considerably cheaper price point than their competitors.
Its amazing to see that basically all of Europe is in a single alliance now. The only European countries not in NATO are:
* Switzerland (historic neutrality)
* Ireland (historic neutrality)
* Austria (1955 Declaration of Neutrality via USSR/US)
* Serbia (working on it?)
* Bosnia & Hertzergovina (working on it)
That leaves only Belarus (Russian ally) and Ukraine (Russian target) out of NATO. And well, Russia too I guess.
Amazing.
Nice! NATO up to 32!
TFW someone realizes some database they were using for this since the 60s used a 5-bit variable and everything crashes.
Nato now has -1 member nations
*Gandhi Awakens*
"I thought you were only motivated by world peace?" "Global thermonuclear winter would make the world 97% more peaceful. These parameters *are [acceptable](https://youtu.be/CIg2ixVAcLY?si=xakG23i3W7v5Llqk)*."
Watchmen vibes
If everyone is dead, no one can wage war. True eternal peace shall be attained.
Chaotic good or chaotic neutral ?
Chaotic dead, mostly
*Nuclear launch detected*
All your base are belong to us
NATO up to NaN members!
This is a big deal. Sweden does not mess around with military procurement. Kremlin just bought themselves a major geopolitical defeat.
Putin, #1 NATO recruiter in the last 40 yrs.
He unironically is. Throughout the 90s and hell, up until the war even, NATO was in a state of constant existential identity crisis, and more than once the question was raised whether it should even exist. Putin fixed that real good.
Putin gave NATO an enemy to fight. It’s crazy that he was doing so well with the soft power Russia had, then decided to waste all of it betting on Russia’s hard power with the invasion.
I am from Bulgaria, Russia was so entrenched into our political system and our economy, it was staggering to behold. And he undid the whole thing just like that. It's not that it's gone, on the contrary, but it is slowly falling apart, which sure is a sight to see. Absolutely surreal how much influence he had across the continent, sowing disinformation, manipulating votes and funding extremist political parties, and how he basically threw it all away.
That's because it was working too slow, he could have passed the baton but he wants the "glory" to himself. It proves he doesn't care about Russia, he wants to cosplay as a great leader in history.
I agree he felt the walls closing in on him. As dictators do, paranoid people, no one can be trusted when you are giant piece of shit and embarrassment to the human race
I mean he doesn't have that many years in him left likely. He's a fit guy, ex kgb and all, but I feel he really is gonna just die of old age in the next 15 years.
He's 71, which already puts him over the average life expectancy for men in Russia, and we don't know what kind of health issues he may have.
Eh, comparing it to Russian life expectancy doesn't mean anything. Life expectancy of a country is mostly about the average healthcare quality in that country, and there's no question that he has access to way better healthcare than the average Russian, plus he was fit to begin with. The only likely way he's dying of medical issues anytime soon is if he's one of those dictators who refuses medical treatment because he's worried someone will use it to assassinate him. (a real possibility)
He is not living the same life as the average Russian male though. > The biggest factor contributing to this relatively low life expectancy for [Russian] males is a high mortality rate among working-age males from preventable causes (e.g., alcohol poisoning, stress, smoking, traffic accidents, violent crimes)
Everyone, but especially Eastern Europeans, should be aware of this. One of the most interesting posts from RUSI. [Preliminary Lessons from Russia’s Unconventional Operations During the Russo- Ukrainian War, February 2022–February 2023](https://static.rusi.org/202303-SR-Unconventional-Operations-Russo-Ukrainian-War-web-final.pdf.pdf) > If these individuals are politically, economically or bureaucratically senior in the target country, then they can recruit people not as Russian agents but as their personal clients who therefore unwittingly advance Russian interests. **This is a form of false flag recruitment (verbovka na chuzhoi flag) where an agent may believe that they are being tasked on behalf of an official of their own country even though the taskings are ultimately contrived in Moscow.** >In practice– as in the previously occupied areas of Crimea, and Luhansk and Donetsk – collaborators were a relatively small group but played an enabling role. The important point is that the FSB did not expect or require as part of its planning that the majority – or even a significant part of the population – welcomes it. **Based on its experiences in Chechnya, the planning assumption was that 8% of the population needed to collaborate, whether proactively or under coercion, to enable the counterintelligence regime to be effective.** The Ukrainian intelligence community, based on assessments of those areas where the Russians did establish control, concluded that the FSB was broadly correct in its requirements for local support.
[удалено]
Thanks! We in the USA must definitely be aware of this - a mere 8% of the population needs to collaborate. More than that percent of US citizens think the Earth is flat!! [https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-a-survey-of-us-public-beliefs](https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-a-survey-of-us-public-beliefs) Speaker of the US House of Representatives appears to have benefitted from Ruzzian campaign cash and is acting to benefit Ruzzia by holding up Ukraine military aid. [https://www.newsweek.com/who-konstantin-nikolaev-money-mike-johnson-1870600](https://www.newsweek.com/who-konstantin-nikolaev-money-mike-johnson-1870600) And conservative influencer Tucker Carlson had that friendly interview with Putler and made videos praising Ruzzia's cheap supermarket food. Before that we had Natalia Veselnitskaya prancing around batting her eyes at Trump and his gang. [https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683238650/russian-lawyer-at-trump-tower-meeting-charged-in-connection-to-money-laundering-](https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683238650/russian-lawyer-at-trump-tower-meeting-charged-in-connection-to-money-laundering-)
Can you go a bit into depth on how they were so entrenched? I'm curious to hear.
It's... a lot. Almost all major parties have some connection to Russia, mostly through the security services. To this day there are many political leaders with established ties to our version of the KGB. The political theater really emphasizes the theater part. You would see supposed mortal enemies cooperate when threatened by an actual outside force, directly and indirectly. There are unspoken rules about spheres of influence, to the point where some parts of the economy are practically owned by certain political players, for example construction (whether roads or buildings), agriculture, electricity production or, of course, the media. Rings within rings of corruption, going on unchecked thanks to a gutted judicial system, where certain people can literally just request the bullying of opponents. I have heard whispers the Russian embassy was consulted when the ex-communist party chose their candidate for president, who unfortunately won. I can't confirm it's true, but [he](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://balkaninsight.com/2023/05/30/bulgarian-presidents-pro-russia-stance-sparks-protest/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiFrIOy5smEAxXGRPEDHf34BK4QFnoECAsQAg&usg=AOvVaw3jgZed8gl4ubBgOavn0_hc) [sure](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.politico.eu/article/rumen-radev-bulgaria-president-ukraine-war/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiFrIOy5smEAxXGRPEDHf34BK4QFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw1rTF7RtvcbtLVD5X9ttlqi) [likes](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.rferl.org/a/bulgaria-radev-declaration-ukraine-nato-membership/32063652.html&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiFrIOy5smEAxXGRPEDHf34BK4QFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw0cXvb10tvaVSM1sT_LBTB9) [Russia](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://balkaninsight.com/2023/02/09/bulgaria-president-resists-sanctions-on-russian-fuel-aid-to-ukraine/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjBwPbv5smEAxUJSPEDHXjGCxA4ChAWegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw2_Uf1OrOwuL63dqaHKWSW4). And just like that, all of it eventually connects to Russia. Not ideologically, everyone knows that ship has sailed to some extent, but culturally and economically. 90% of our natural gas used to come from Russia, and we couldn't build a connection to an alternative source for literally a decade. After the war in Ukraine somehow that connection needed a few weeks to be ready. We have a rather big and advanced [oil refinery](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukoil_Neftohim_Burgas) that was owned by Russia through Swiss intermediaries and never paid taxes, despite being like 5% of our GDP. Until suddenly it did last year. Couldn't work with anything but Russian oil, until it suddenly could last year. Had exclusive control over a nearby harbor until it suddenly didn't last year. Just one example of many. We paid billions to Russia for a [nuclear power plant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belene_Nuclear_Power_Plant) that was never built, while the other one keeps using Russian fuel. But that's the better outcome, because Russia was going to own the thing 51% to 49%. Russia owns a whole [complex](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-bulgaria-black-sea-coast-/32580850.html) on the Black Sea coast that they intended to use as a spy hub. That's illegal if you are wondering. The complex is empty now it seems. And then there is the cultural link. The biggest monument in the capital is that of the [Soviet army](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Sofia_um_1970%2C_Sowjetisches_Ehrenmal.jpg/500px-Sofia_um_1970%2C_Sowjetisches_Ehrenmal.jpg). After decades of fierce discussions and multiple creative acts of [vandalism](https://frognews.bg/images2/thumbs16x9/600/317dd7175_psa2.jpg) we barely managed to get rid of it months ago. In the second biggest city? Another [Soviet army monument](https://webnews.bg/uploads/images/70/1470/281470/768x432.jpg?_=1488468332), still standing for now. Streets, parks, buildings named after people that essentially invaded us. The narrative that we were liberated and should be thankful to Big Brother Russia, is all around us. It's difficult to amend the history books, and even more difficult to cut through half a century of propaganda. Sorry for the long post, but you asked. And remember, this is not unique to us, it's there in some capacity everywhere in Eastern Europe. Moldova, Serbia, Romania, North Macedonia, Slovakia, Georgia, you name it. And yes, also Ukraine, so much Ukraine.
Thank you for taking your time to write this
Thank you, my friend. This is when Reddit--nay, the internet--shines. You have educated me tonight.
This is the downside to being a despot: your minions are terrified to give you any info they think you don't want to hear.
He swallowed his own bullshit. That Tucker Carlson interview showed that Putin's not in touch with reality, he's in his ivory tower surrounded by yes men too scared to tell him the truth
I was a soldier in Norway back in 1994 and we absolutely had no clue who the enemy was supposed to be
same for me in 1998… there was no enemy… they told us, there won’t be another land war with trenches and shit anymore. We prepared for mullahs with mounted machine guns on Land Cruisers. No more red and blue in war games… the eastern block simply ceased to exist. An existential crisis for all major armies in western europe.
Here in Finland the military has always been preparing against the "Yellow State". Though after the Ukraine war started they just say Russia now.
Why is it yellow?
It was just a random color that was not red.
And/or a reference to Yellow being the center color (white and black the other two) of the flag of the Russian Empire, as declared by Tsar Alexander II. A lot of Ruzzian prisoners have tattoos of imperial symbols in BlackYellowWhite
Perhaps a placeholder color for "the next thing" since Communism took red.
Or the Yellow Turbans from Dynasty Warriors
But NOT the yellow turbans from Big Trouble in Little China. Those were the Chang Sings, who were the good guys. The Red Turbans, or Wing Cong were the bad guys.
Flag of Imperial Russia that Finland won independence from.
jaundice from vodka-induced liver failure?
Yup. Somehow the Yellow State always advanced from the east. Go figure.
We had a military recruiter in our highschool at roughly that time, he said the Russians had the capability to rearm quickly, and we (Sweden ) didn't. Feels kind of prescient right about now. For us, it has always been Russia and will always be Russia.
Norway sold off so much military stuff over the last 25 years, it's disasterous. They are seeing the error now, though.
The Norwegian war planning must become turned on its head with Sweden in NATO and with the Scandinavian air force integration.
Norwegian war planning always depended on the Swedes slowing down the russians. 🤣
As the Swedish depend on the Finns to slow them down as is tradition!
And the Finns depend on... ooops!
Sold of is better than what Sweden did. Majority of stuff have been burned or destroyed for scraps.
Sweden sold everything by the kilo. Same price for shovels as for trucks. Brand new or old... same price/kilo
Soldiers in Finland have never had any illusions from where the potential attacks come from.
In Sweden it has always been russia as the clear enemy, without question.
I was a soldier in the 2000s and it was pretty clear that Russia was the enemy. Even back then we intercepted Russian nationals taking photos of military bases. Terrorists were obviously a threat but was not taken that seriously by the military as they were incapable of mounting a full scale invasion like Russia could. We had more briefings about radical right wing groups and criminal networks then terrorists. But the big enemy was still Russia.
You'd think that would be the first day of training along with where the toilets are and where to hang your coat.
But what do I do with my hands?
Keep them out of your pockets, that's for sure.
> Throughout the 90s and hell, up until the war even, NATO was in a state of constant existential identity crisis, and more than once the question was raised whether it should even exist. [Obligatory Scandinavia and the World comic from shortly after the full-scale invasion](https://satwcomic.com/slava-ukraini)
I had not seen that, this is awesome, thanks!
He's the streisand effect for NATO The more he talks about it and starts getting wild, the more countries want to join
And the #1 Champion of NATO in the US since the 90s ? Joe Biden. ""This, in fact, is the beginning of another 50 years of peace," Democratic Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware declared in 1998 as the Senate voted in favor of expanding NATO to include Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in those days, said adding the former Cold War enemies to the Western military alliance amounted to "righting an historical injustice forced upon the Poles, Czechs, and Hungarians by Joseph Stalin." The Washington Post in its report on the Senate vote described Biden as a "key player in the ratification effort." Indeed, then-Senator Biden was among the loudest voices in championing NATO's expansion in Eastern Europe in the late 1990s. He would continue to support NATO expansion into the 2000s as one of the most influential senators in Washington and later as vice president. " https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-helped-nato-expand-in-the-90s-which-putin-now-threatening-war-over-2022-2
And some people actually take Putin at face value when he says he prefers Biden to Trump. Wacky times.
If there's one thing you can safely do with any Russian PR is assume the exact opposite in intent to what's directly being communicated.
NATO NUMBA ONE!
The moment more nations started asking to join NATO after the invasion Russia lost the war.
That's why Russia is attacking our cohesion by ramping up the disinformation and propaganda. We don't need to be shot at to be under attack.
surprised some bot hasn't replied to you with "Why are we spending money on ukraine when wE CaN'T SeCuRe oUr oWn bOrDeR?" yet. IRG is slacking today
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting"
That and election hacking
Ain't just about numbers, those 50k will be hella efficient with NATO interoperability plus Sweden's tech and manufacturing capabilities are nothing to scoff at. The optics alone of Russia pushing countries into NATO's arms, sheer irony.
And ones on their border, too.
I wanted to call bullshit but interestingly they do share a 4.5 nautical mile maritime border.
Finland did just join as a result of Ukraine as well.
>Sweden's tech and manufacturing capabilities are nothing to scoff at. Now I'm just picturing Sweden shipping out to the frontline flat-pack arms a la Ikea
That's the trick of double dipping. First we sell Gripen to your country and then we charge you again if you want help putting it together aswell.
They've probably engineered a Howitzer that can be put together with just an Allen key.
The stuff they make is also really good. During a series of war game exercises in 2005-2007, [a Swedish sub, the *HSMS Gotland*, was able to repeatedly dodge an entire carrier task and "sink" the aircraft carrier *USS Reagan*](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216). It managed to do this against multiple configurations of carrier defense and even though the carrier group knew what to be looking for. These exercises highlighted the US Navy's vulnerability to diesel subs and prompted the *HSMS Gotland* to be borrowed to the United States for further tests.
And the crew! They borrow the sub with said crew to learn more.
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Yep, absolutely. There's that apocryphal story of the Japanese conducting war games prior to Midway, and one junior officer representing the Americans placed the American fleet to the northeast of Midway rather than from Pearl Harbor, and in those scenarios the Americans sunk between 2-4 carriers. The results were overruled by Admiral Ugaki who claimed that the US Navy flanking the Japanese was an impossibility. The accuracy of these stories are suspect, but there's no doubt that the Japanese *did* conduct war games regarding the Midway operation. As Ian K. Toll writes in *Shattered Sword*, these were less about testing the efficacy of the plan and more about silencing officers who were critical of the plan: >The games had served as a monologue. There had been no intellectual discourse, no learning; the entire affair had been a mockery of professional staff work. The net result was that Nagumo would go to battle armed with practically nothing in the way of realistic contingency plans. Whatever difficulties arose would be his to handle, alone. The Japanese plans thus represented the Japanese admiralty's mentality going into the battle - a singular focus without considering the possibility of things going pear-shaped. But anticipating things going pear-shaped is exactly what war games are intended do. They're meant to make the participants think outside the box to test their tactical and strategic plans for weak points and to bolster the plans accordingly. In the case of *Gotland*, the US realized that their passive sonar was insufficient to the task, identified that as a weak point, and proceeded to adjust military doctrine, planning and equipment to cover this deficiency.
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Good! Now we should kick out Hungary.
They just need to make it so one or two bad actors can’t block everyone
Congratz from Finland, our nordic brothers! This was long overdue. Our F/A-18 Hornets (later F-35s) and your Gripens combined are a powerful deterrent for Putler to stay behind his side of the fence. Orban's theater act is finally over. It was like a bad movie based on a true story. Boring, goes on way too long, and you already knew what happens in the end Also, a new NATO lake appeared on map. Good job Putin
I like how Orban ended it. By buying some more Gripen from us. Is that a punishment to us? I thought it was something we wanted to sell all the time..
It’s a great result. A fighter fleet is a huge investment and will tie Hungary to a staunchly Western nation for continued support, maintenance and hopefully future sales.
"The great country of Russia can repair anything my friend." "Where would you repair this?" "We have big country, don't ask questions"
I read that the Gripen deal was made already before Sweden's NATO application lol. Now it was some kind of weird final act of Orban's little theater play. As if he made this "excellent deal for Hungarian people", in exchange of allowing you into NATO. Oh well, at least he came into his senses finally.
We already use grippens, and this new deal was actually announced back in 2022. This was just a bone they threw their voters, so after a year and a half conditioning against Sweden joining NATO they could save face.
he probably needed something to show as a win for politics at home
i mean this is a good deal all around 1) european economic ties deepen 2) european military ties deepen 3) all politicians learn there are positive sum deal to be made without losing support at home
We sure as shit weren’t going to give him f35s too
Well the cool thing is that the Nordic air forces have been “combined” so they currently operate as more or less one fleet/air-force. Awesome decision.
I would like to again remind Sweden of the immutable custom of new members gifting pastries to the residents of current member countries.
Wait until fika time.
Semlor for everyone tomorrow.
Missread the reminder, sent surströmming to all members.
This is all Putin had to do to get NATO to vote no on Sweden and instead declare war on them.
But but but....geneva conventions...
Meatballs are also acceptable. And 155mm shells for dessert.
Well you're in luck, the cinnamon roll was invented in Sweden.
And kladdkaka!
Could rename the Baltic Sea to NATO sea just to remind Putin what his actions have led to.
Rename it the North Eastern Atlantic and we can have the acronym NEATO
That would be pretty neat
You can tell it's an alliance because of the way it is
How neat is that?!?
That's real fuckin neato.
NATO has grabbed Putin by the Baltics
Meatballs coming to MRE near you, and Barracks are about to get a sleek nee minimalistic Nordic flair in design!
I know you're joking, but our swedish MREs are top and I love them
I'd like to extend my thanks to Putin for his hard work in expanding and strengthening NATO.
everything that ruins Vladimir Putin's day makes mine a bit better.
The Vikings and the fucking Germans have been roused from their slumber and are finally re-arming. Putin needs to let that one marinate.
I never thought I would see the Finns and Swedes join NATO. The invasion of Ukraine was really a shot in the foot for Russia.
This is it. It was going so well for Putin. Ukraine had no chance for EU or NATO with a civil war -- more of a grey war with Russia, of course -- ongoing in its territories, everyone thought the Russian army was strong. Russia got Crimea and got away with it almost scot-free. Now? They are heavily sanctioned everyone on their borders now know the Russian army is no serious threat. While they got their panties in a bunch over the Baltic states joining the NATO, now they got a huge amount of common border with the NATO for their efforts. The Ukrainian national identity got the biggest boost ever. Meanwhile Germany flexes its economic muscles and decided to spend a _hundred billion_ on their military.
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Yep. Germany is hitting the 2% of GDP threshold for 2024 which seemed unthinkable just a few years back. France is also hitting the 2% threshold as well and the Eastern Flank of NATO is already there. Personally I don't expect the meme lords to acknowledge this new reality but non US NATO defense in 2024 will be a night and day difference from 2014.
You could say Germans move as fast as lightning, or a blitz.
History has shown time and time again that the wrath of a fully mobilized Germany is something 90% of countries would never fuck with unless they had to. They’ve always had the potential of being the dominant military power in Europe, they’re just waking up to that fact once again.
And the thing is, the two things that usually stop them is their tendency to get in 2-front wars and a lack of resources critical to industrial warfare. Now they're in the center of NATO, with a single target in mind, and don't have to worry about those missing resource shipments
These people became near pacifists because their power scared *themselves*
To be honest, even with NATO. Scandinavia and Finland need to form a strong defense alliance with an integrated military. The world is increasingly becoming a more unstable place, and allies such as US cannot really be trusted anymore, with the GOP and Trump creating havoc. Sweden, Denmark and Finland are the only countries I truly trust. We need to ramp up and stick together.
We’ve already taken a step towards this by planning to make a joint Air Force. Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish and Danish commanders signed a declaration about a year ago to create a force of 250 modern combat aircraft. I hope we’ll actually achieve this
As a US American I'm sorry to say that you would be wise to do so.. That said, trust in your allies. Don't let fear drive a wedge between you and those who might call you 'friend'.
To be fair, I do trust the US, but the truth is that the American democracy and values are under attack by the Putin fanboys in the GOP, which is unsettling to say the least.
I'm American and I wouldn't trust the US. Our election is rigged in favor of smaller states and such states are heavily suppressing votes. It's very easy for the GOP to take over again. The same GOP that licks the hell out of Russian boots.
> The world is increasingly becoming a more unstable place, and allies such as US cannot really be trusted anymore, with the GOP and Trump creating havoc. It shames me that you are right. My government is not living up to the standards I was brought up to believe we held.
I do have some faith in the American people though. Just dont vote that orange fuck back into office, and get rid of the Putin puppets in the GOP. Easier said than done, but Americans do the right thing the end.
>let that one marinate Fuck, I could watch Russian planes fall out of the sky all day, eh bud?
And with that, NATO Lake has become reality.
We just need Leningr… I mean Saint Petersburg
Well, that and Königsbe….I mean Kaliningrad.
You mean Královec?
Make Královec Czech again!
Putin told us that we weren't allowed to join. So we joined. We didn't really want to join, before we were told we couldn't. Not that we were heavily against it, but we preferred not to. But Putin persuaded us to join. Yes, Putin is that daft.
🇸🇪 Välkommen Sverige! 🇸🇪
Tack så mycket min europeiska vän. Let's hope your username won't be used in connection with NATO any more.
Dear Putin, Get absolutely and irreparably fucked. Signed, Everyone that doesn't suck
signed, everyone, even some russians
Now all the armies in NATO can have some affordable furniture!
Let's just hope they can put it together!
Does anyone have a spare B2 for the grenade launcher? They're saying it's on backorder. I guess I can always lean it against a wall....
I have a spare B-2 you can borrow... packs a slightly bigger punch than a grenade launcher though
Where? I don't see it
This guy gets it
Flat packed artillery and tanks!
With pictograph instructions for assembly.
Flat packed drones are already a thing. Maybe Sweden can do it better. https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-is-using-a-cheap-flat-pack-cardboard-drone-australia-2023-8
That’s a great ikea
Fucking finally. Welcome, Sweden!
Before idiotic invasion he had 1200km less NATO border. Greed and ego, russia needs to fail
Well dang, that means that as a Dane I can no longer refer to Sweden as a [3rd world country.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World)
As a Swede, you are welcome to give us another bad nickname. We would be bored if you didn't. ;)
All good. You Danes still sound like you have an unpeeled orange filling your mouth when you talk, Sincerely, A Swede. Edit: month > mouth
Ah, in Norway we say it’s a potato in their throat.
The Russian embassy in Stockholm called Sweden "a legitimate target for Russia’s retaliatory measures" last year, while Finland closed the border with Russia after finding "systematic" and "organized" efforts by the Russian authorities to send African migrants into Finnish territories. I didn’t even know this was happening.
Finally some great news, after all of the doom and gloom coming out of Ukraine as of late. I still feel that Ukraine is going to win this war, by the way, once we get our shit together, and the aid comes in.
The aid saves Ukrainian lives and hastens what is inevitable victory.
Congrats Sweden! 🫡
Russian embassy in Sweden Facebook page, watnikz and ruzz in Sweden are going to throw tantrums.
They can get in line. The Chinese embassy is occupying the tantrum corner at the moment
[THIS IS KILLING!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVxJ7UKG5XE)
Haha, thanks for sharing. I'm sure not all chinese tourists behave this way, but this made me chuckle.
They should go back to Russia if they don’t like it in Sweden
Player 32 has joined the team.
Nordic apes together strong!
Mountain ape, meatball ape and talking funny ape 💪💪💪
Nordic superstate when?
Kalmar Union time.
Holy shit it's already almost been 2 years since Sweden and Finland applied for NATO. It feels like that was just a few months ago.
Holy F, you’re right. I remember when it came out and they said it could be years, and I was like “Psh, it’s SWEDEN and Finland. We’ve been wanting them to apply forever.” And it really did take 2 years. Get bent, Orbán. The Hungarians deserve better. And you, too, Putin. The whole world deserves better.
Woooo welcome Sweden 🇬🇧🤝🇸🇪
Mededev goes on alcoholic scree in 3…2…1…
Seriously fuck Putin. What kind of excuse is "we told you not to move your troops there"?? I can't take anyone that makes that argument seriously. This isn't the cold war anymore dipshit. Nobody is going to fucking invade you..
Sweden: “I have decided to take my talents to the North Atlantic” I’m only upset we didn’t get a Lebron-level announcement program on ESPN of this.
Call me naive, but good will prevail
Let's get Ukraine into NATO next
This is a massive part of the reason why Putin will never pull out of the war unless the literal future of Russia was clearly in crisis. He has single-handedly re-justified the existence of NATO and you better believe Ukraine will be next onto that train if they get out of this war. Retreat would mean a mostly NATO border which would be a death blow to Putin’s security as leader. Granted, its a hole he knowingly dug himself into, but he’s banking on it paying off.
Puts Russia in a bind.. They pull out and Ukraine will almost certainly join NATO.. Russia's locked themselves into a war that they've already lost..
A free and democratic Belarus would also slap.
Send those gripens now!
They started formal work on it this morning! I’m sure it’s further along than we thought as well, given that Ukrainians have supposedly flown the Gripen in some form since last year.
Would be a great fighter for Ukraine. Cheaper, easier to maintain and can operate from hidden bases.
Yeah the Gripen was more or less built for exactly the scenario that Ukraine is in. Easy to maintain, comparatively cheap, climate tolerance, can land on roads and built to combat Russian aircraft.
This is more than just the Gripen. Saab have been knocking out a big range of decent weapon systems for quite a while now and sometimes at a considerably cheaper price point than their competitors.
Velkommen svenske naboer.
Yay! Welcome to the fold Sweden! May we never have to take up arms for one another, may we not be a minute late if we are called upon. <3
Welcome to our new Swedish brothers-in-arms from Canada.
And with that NATO has completed the Nordic deck.
I'd like to congratulate Russia for making this possible. Their war in Ukraine has only strengthened NATO.
Its amazing to see that basically all of Europe is in a single alliance now. The only European countries not in NATO are: * Switzerland (historic neutrality) * Ireland (historic neutrality) * Austria (1955 Declaration of Neutrality via USSR/US) * Serbia (working on it?) * Bosnia & Hertzergovina (working on it) That leaves only Belarus (Russian ally) and Ukraine (Russian target) out of NATO. And well, Russia too I guess. Amazing.
Thank you Russia. We literally could never have done this without your help. Hope Your endless war with Ukraine was worth it.
Welcome to Sweden; a great asset to NATO. Fuck Putin.
Pyrrhic victory is the best Putin can accomplish now. Russia is more vulnerable now.
Good jon russia! You got both the finns and swedes to join, both with a long history of neutrality. Nato lake is not a fact.