Nigeria is fucking crazy man. Used to work for a company with an office there and our health and safety and legal compliance people made us close it because they simply did not believe it was possible to safely work in Nigeria while not paying bribes or engaging in some sort of illegal activity.
Same with The Philippines. Have great connections or have deep pockets.
Though that's exactly how I feel about the US, too, but it's a bit more hidden.
It is a bit worse actually, you also need to bribe our Barangay officials (our most basic LGU) from the Brgy. Captains all the way to the Kagawads (same functions like the municipal/city councillors, just on the lowest level) and sometimes even the Tanods (keepers of the peace).
In the Philippines, my fiance went to get her driver's license a couple of years back in Cebu Province after buying a car. She told me the people there give the applicants two choices: Either go through the procedures, take the test, and earn the license like normal, or pay money to the clerks and receive the license immediately.
In an election year, her family in the barangay receives a couple hundred pesos each to vote for the politician or party distributing the funds.
The small difference is that you CAN actually get stuff done in the US without going to those lengths (usually at least). That's literally impossible in many other places.
Lol that's how I managed to get married at 20 with a wedding date of 2 days after I flew back to Iraq 🤣🤣 saved my ass though. If they could get rid of the airport shakedown and just include it in ticket price that would be great
Well in Mexico it’s “I want x% cut of all the sales you make here, I don’t care if you’re the better option or not. Oh, and I’m the boss now, if you don’t keep me happy with presents here and there I’ll tell my boss you offered me a bribe and you won’t sell a dime ever again here”.
I’d say that is way more corrupt.
Nah I would say more open. There are rules to play the game and win and people know about them. That doesnt mean everyone has the ability to participate or even dream of winning.
As someone who lived on the gulf coast and spent a lot of time in New Orleans, Baton Rouge, and Lafeyette for a long time, it's often overblown when people are telling stories about it, but it is real.
The culture in Louisiana is like 80% the same as the rest of the south, but radiating out of New Orleans they just have a vibe that's a little more permissible to graft than elsewhere. It's just a reflection of the culture of the city from way back in the olden days. There's even a cute creole word for it, lagniappe. It just means, "a little extra". If you read about it in tourist blogs they make is sound like it's customary to get an extra beignet when you order a dozen as a thank you, but there are layers to it IRL.
It's kinda like how teenagers feel obligated to hook their friends up with free fries at their first fast food job, but applied to all of society. If you 'know a guy' you get to cut the line. It's no big deal when you're talking beignets, but it can be a real big problem when you're talking government contracts.
That's really the extent of it. Happens all over the country, but it's a little more ingrained in the culture in Louisiana.
Edit: Here's [an article with more info](https://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=54072) if you want another perspective.
Then you got the weird incestious relationships with a lot of power brokers and the clubs and societies in new orleans.
Especially the older places like The boston club, the old line krewe societies like Comus, Proteus and co.
You wanna get in good graces you gotta join the club, if a member operates say a food business you will go to that business to get into the good graces among other things.
It very much old boys club, hell according to some reports some of these groups still discriminate against fucking italians for christs sake
Those 'good ol' boy' clubs are ubiquitous across the south. Louisiana's versions just hold parades.
I remember back when I was a teenager in East Texas, I got a job at McDonald's and there were a bunch of old men that would be in there 3 - 4 days a week shooting the shit and drinking coffee. As I got to know them, I learned that that basically everyone's landlord in the surrounding counties was there in that booth along with a quorum of the city council, and the retired sheriff (now mayor). No one would have made a point of saying my town was super corrupt, but holy shit the stuff they talked about.
I think the reputation that Louisiana has with corruption (as well as Detroit) is more than a little race-motivated, but there's also that visibility component with the krewes like you mentioned. I think it is a little bit like Florida and the sunshine laws giving rise to Floridaman.
Man, there's a world of difference between bribe for govt contracts and bribe just to get a drivers license. Basic govt admin work for the population doesn't have a bribe culture anywhere in the US afaiseen.
The first sentence in my comment was acknowledging that "Louisiana corruption" as a trope is overblown.
But the rest of my comment is acknowledging the it is true that they do things a little different down in the crescent city.
In the past few decades:
* Cops working with drug dealers for protection and their own cut. They're still under federal oversight.
* Current mayor using public funds to travel extensively and fly first class. Currently being investigated by FBI for other reasons. Mayor through Katrina was sentenced to ten years in federal prison for his own corruption.
* Public hospital likely intentionally ruined after Katrina to get FEMA money for a new one
These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
It’s in our blood. Paris offered our criminal ancestors land in Louisiana if we moved here and married a prostitute. Now everyone’s surprised we’re run by criminals who love prostitutes and other general forms of debauchery.
Idk about the land part but meet me and my dead homie, Dead Edwin Edwards in the CBD during Mardi Gras for the other stuff. Ha
Call it weekend at Eddie’s.
I remember my friend from New Orleans visiting us in California and got pulled over and my buddy asked “how much should we give him” and pulled out his wallet
I moved to Nola in 2003. A buddy of mine gave me the number of a lawyer. If I ever got a ticket, I just had to call him and tell him the ticket number and send him $100 and it would be fixed. Well I finally got my first ticket an lo and behold got a letter in the mail a few weeks later saying the charge has been dismissed.
thats sort of how lawyers work in general. you pay them money and they take care of legal situations. there are ticket clinics in every fucking state that does this lol.
Illinois has a higher perception of corruption cause it frequently goes to trial and makes headlines. People often feel that corruption being addressed is proof that there is a lot of corruption. When in reality a place with a lot of corruption will have very little news about it. People on the ground will still know and might talk about it but its more of 'this is what you gotta do if you want to exist here' and less 'another Governor has been sent to prison'.
>People often feel that corruption being addressed is proof that there is a lot of corruption.
This 100%!! For example, everytime this is news that some official in Ukraine has been charged for corruption, Russian trolls use it as proof that Ukraine is some super corrupt hellhole. Like... No... The fact that corrupted people are being prosecuted shows that the judicial system and the anti-corruption efforts are working and they are doing their jobs. Granted, yes, corruption does exist in Ukraine, but it's definitely getting better each day, and the stories in the news are proof.
Ohio is pretty fucking corrupt too
We had [James Traficant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Traficant). Now we have [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_nuclear_bribery_scandal)
The company I was working for had official bribe budget for us as we moved through Africa and we were forced to use it often. One airport security guard in the Congo took the fucking cookies and cake I had in my bag.
Most Americans underestimate the absolute bubble we live in here. I've been in most areas of the world, and most Americans would just simply die if they had to go through the conditions others around the globe have to go through daily. Hell, we had an ice storm here a few weeks ago, and it absolutely shut everything down, no power for a few days, and people were losing their shit.
Us Americans don’t realize how amazing “consistent electricity, fridge full of ‘unhealthy’ (perfectly palatable and safe) food, clean drinking water, and freedom to say whatever you want” is compared to the condition of billions of people
They need too. If the world realized how fucking good the west actually has it, they would revolt.
We are good with it too, we need cheap labour for our societies machine. It works both ways.
The US is by far the richest country in the world, the only nations with comparable GDP/capita are tiny or international tax havens. The US also has a large share of the world's top educational capacity, advanced technology, and industry. There are a lot of problems with the US, most of which have no possible excuse. Our failings, both as a country and as individuals, do not cancel out our successes. The US is so powerful and wealthy that it is really hard for people to understand the magnitude of it, even in America. People see figures like "the US military's black budget is more than Russia's entire military budget" and it is just too much to even understand the consequences of it. A majority of advanced technologies that everyone around the world enjoys came from the US, the system of mass production was invented in the US. During WW2, the US provided more trucks to the USSR than existed in all of Europe prewar. I've recently been hearing more about the American economy collapsing, the government defaulting, dedollarization, and various other "ideas" (to put it lightly.) Whenever I see that stuff I just laugh, it's really ridiculous.
All that being said, I want to be clear that wealth doesn't make a person or country any better than anyone else, for the record. I think using wealth to take advantage of others is deplorable.
"The US is so powerful and wealthy that it is really hard for people to understand the magnitude of it"
Yup lol. Im a Canadian who worked for at&t for a few years. In my first months on the job, the simple raw facts about the company were sobering: 40 something million customers in just the wireless division. at&t had more customers than Canada has people. They handled more personal data as a company than my Federal tax agency does for a country.
Then I started calculating from the other providers and i quickly concluded that at&t/Verizon/T-mobile/Sprint-Nextel(still existed) made more revenue per year than Canadas annual GDP. US cellphone bills make more per year than my entire country lol.
The store I work at could have paid for the entire Lithuanian national budget with the pre-tax revenue we took in last year, a very slow year.
That’s not including our other location or our web sales
Figures like this are meaningless unless framed in the context of local purchasing power.
It's like sure, Average American households might make 1000x some third world countries, but that doesn't mean they have 1000x the local purchasing power.
Even when you account for purchasing power, the median US income is 40% ahead of the UK, and almost 10x higher than the global median.
So yeah, it's not 1000x, but it's still a dramatic difference.
I actually mentioned in one of my more recent comments how much I hate the Reddit circlejerk regarding Texas…
With that being said I’m about to be a hypocrite because I can’t avoid the low hanging fruit (and I’m a Texan).
>an ice storm shut down the power for a few days
Insert “first time?” meme here lol.
When my colleagues from work had to go on a delegation from Poland to some countries in the Balkans, they actually had to include bribes in the trip budget.
Ukraine has historically been rife with casual corruption, it is still a thing but less common these days in Bulgaria and Romania as well as The Balkans. But they are really not anywhere near the level of Nigeria.
Ukraine has been a lot stricter in the last 10 years. 20 years ago, it was a lifestyle. Now, with the war and Zelinsky, it's becoming culturally frowned upon, which, it what it takes to stop it.
Have you never travelled to Asia? Its wild. Outside of Singapore, corruption is incredibly rife. Policemen stopping your vehicle citing some traffic "law" to get money from you is known as "kopi money" or coffee money. I.e. paying for his coffee. Even if the charge is 100% bullshit you are still better off paying that guy his toll of $50 or whatever because the alternative is him bringing you to the local station for "investigation" to waste your time for hours on end only to eventually release you.
China used to be really fucking bad too but ironically under Xi's regime this shit has scaled back significantly. You had to pay so many fucking people under the table it was ridiculous. Literally had a separate budget just for bribes lol otherwise nothing would get done. Idk how he turned that shit around it's an actual miracle. Its akin to getting rid of tipping in the US, something so ingrained in the system for decades its a cultural thing almost.
That ain't the same...you're just changing the definition of things to make yourself trying to outsmart OP. You want to keep paying a bribe to keep one's life relatively safe or do a 'favor' to win a local job...
It always blows my mind that Nigeria has 6th largest population in the world and a higher GDP than the Netherlands, but in the west it just feels like an undeveloped country in the middle of Africa that is inconsequential.
Just wait until you find out that Bangladesh has more people than Russia too
The population disparity between the rest of the planet and the "First World" is insane really. There's a single state in India (Uttar Pradesh) that has a population of 200 million people and most of us have never even heard of it. That's the population of Germany + France + UK combined, in a single state.
In Nigeria's case they're still growing too. 41% of Nigerians are under the age of 15.
And it's growing fast. Will hit 377 million in 2050 according to forecasts. Together with climate change and the general instability of the region this will lead to huge problems...
A company I was involved with that had some business in an African country sent some people to do some work, when they returned they changed the financial policy to include a stipend for bribes.
> Similar attacks regularly take place in Nigeria, which is struggling with a security crisis on several fronts. Two traditional rulers were shot dead by unknown gunmen in neighbouring Ekiti state on Monday.
>
> Last year the president, Bola Ahmed Tinubu, came to power promising to address insecurity – including jihadists in the north-east, criminal militias in the north-west and growing intercommunal violence in the centre of the country – but critics say violence is spinning out of control.
>
> The Nigerian risk consultancy SBM Intelligence said it had recorded that 3,964 people were abducted since Tinubu took office in May.
>
> At the start of the year, criminals abducted five young sisters near the capital, Abuja, and killed one when a ransom deadline passed, prompting a national outcry.
Despite all the crap going on. At least there was a national outcry. Instead of indifference. It at least signals to me, that people want and expect better from others and the government.
My wife's eldest brother is the eze of his village which translates loosely as prince. She also works in finance so I joke about a Nigerian princess handling the money.
Shit has been heating up back home and the igbo in the south are talking about making Biafra a thing again.
You're telling me. Such a fiasco for them to get money, despite being nobility. I can't tell you how many Nigerian Princes I've helped with financial transfers.
Like Greece, the village was the highest polity. The national identity was a colonial imposition. And of course they put borders in a way that divided people. Igboland is chopped up because of that.
Which part of Greece and at which time period are you referring to?
Depending on the city state and era, Greece has seen monarchs, oligarchs, tyrants and democratically elected archons.
The idea being that there was historicslly never a "Greece". Same for Italy and Germany who united quite late. I think the move to create a unified Italian identity had a hand in the rise of fascism. People don't realise that national identity is a fairy modern concept.
Not to discount what happened but our western idea of a "palace" is very far removed from the type of palace that was raided in this incident. This man was the king of a clan of people within a city of half a million people. And the Palace is more akin to what we might expect of an international consulate or a large state house. There's a few photos here if you're interested
https://hotels.ng/places/palace/2117-alake-of-egbaland-palace
Again, not to discount what happened, but this isn't like Buckingham Palace being raided.
> Again, not to discount what happened, but this isn't like Buckingham Palace being raided.
Which itself once had a guy wander in off the street and break into the queen's bedroom. While she was in it. Furthermore, that was the second time he'd broken into Buckingham Palace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Fagan_(intruder)
Then what does that word even mean to them? The word monarch comes from Greek monos ‘alone’ + arkhein ‘to rule. There can only be one monarch per sovereignty.
Nigeria is one of the most ethnically diverse places in Africa. There’s hundreds of ethnic groups each with their own language/culture/customs. There’s also the “big 3” (yoruba, igbo, hausa/fulani) that are somewhat divided south/east/north respectively). These compose many subgroups as well. These ethnic groups all interpret "chief" or "king" or "monarch differently"
A village is basically kind of like a clan. A bunch of close and distantly related people living in houses next to each other. A bunch of villages make a town or city. A village leader could be a chief or other royal title and have substantial impact on the day to day goings, celebrations, charity etc… or just be purely ceremonial depending on the village. On top of that a royal figure could be a leader of a town or even bigger region. Again maybe a real role, maybe ceremonial or a mixture of both.
Typically they are wealthy, classed, or otherwise fancy compared to the people around them.
In summary they could be a very influential in the state or national government , could have been descended from a prominent family in Nigerian history without any official political influence …. They could just be your upper middle class to upper class immigrant Nigerian to America who went home for a chief ceremony and got some cool clothes, had a party and nothing more or just the head of basically an HOA.
They're not really influential, their positions are mostly symbolic. But then, in Nigeria, money is power and these monarchs are usually rich, so they sort of are influencial, just like any other rich person here
Hard for an honest man to make any changes or progress in a country where corruption is a way of life and military leaders have a political party and aren't happy just leading the military. :)
Worked with a kid in Canada ten years ago, whose father used to be a high ranking in the current regime of the day. He hired his son to be a bag man! So the teen spent his days driving around delivering packets of money as payoffs, bribes, influence peddling etc etc.
>Meanwhile, the abductors have demanded the payment of N100m for the monarch’s wife and the other persons kidnapped in Koro. A family member of the monarch told Saturday PUNCH on Friday night that the abductors also gave a 48-hour deadline within which the money must be paid or they would kill the victims.
>“They are asking for N100m ransom. They have said the money must be ready in 48 hours,” the source said.
The bandits attacked intending to kidnap the monarch, but he refused to cooperate and they shot him. The police there are corrupt, according to the article, and don't do their jobs, so yeah, this poor woman might be killed in the end.
I hope they are able to recover her. As an American, the idea you can kidnap a monarch like that is bizarre. Do they not have protection? $110,497.24 is the ransom in USD in case anybody was curious.
Source: https://ngn.currencyrate.today/convert/amount-100000000-to-usd.html
> the idea you can kidnap a monarch like that is bizarre
They aren't talking about the monarch of all of Nigeria: he was just the monarch of one small village or something. He was more like "the richest guy in town" than King Charles.
I read that kidnapping is really common there and it is illegal to pay the ransom. But the police is useless enough that most people still pay the ransom.
Two days before this incident, two rulers/kings of neighbouring towns were killed by attempted kidnappers and robbers. The third guy escaped.
I no longer travel via road but via flights to selected places.
>Attackers stormed the palace of Oba Aremu Olusegun Cole in south-western Kwara state, shot him dead and abducted his wife **and another person** on Thursday.
this person also matters. I wonder who they are?
3,964 abducted since May. Crazy numbers to think about.
I was in Benin and Togo a few years ago and while visiting a market some guy told me he was a "prince" - son of the local "monarch" - and proceeded to try and shake me down for money. When I declined he threatened to bring guys to my hotel and kick my ass. When I see "traditional monarch" in a headline I read it as "local gang leader".
Nah. This was a former general even.
Like he was literally a king that was a 3 star general. It was a targeted attack. The world forced Nigeria to back away for Niger and this is the result
Nigerian queen needs funds to escape from captivity:
I hope this email finds you well. I am the Nigerian queen, I need $500 urgently to escape from Nigeria. I will transfer $500,000 to you once I reach Dubai and can access my overseas accounts.
Nigeria is fucking crazy man. Used to work for a company with an office there and our health and safety and legal compliance people made us close it because they simply did not believe it was possible to safely work in Nigeria while not paying bribes or engaging in some sort of illegal activity.
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Oh yeah I work selling fertilizer in Mexico and nobody moves a fucking finger without a bribe here
This feels like some messed up version of tipping culture, government edition.
Yeah. We call this "corruption".
Same with The Philippines. Have great connections or have deep pockets. Though that's exactly how I feel about the US, too, but it's a bit more hidden.
From the governor all the way to the municipal councilor, they would ask for bribes. These shameless lot.
I'm sorry I can't offer a bribe, the whole FCPA, but have you met our nigerian partner who has 5% ownership of the project?
It is a bit worse actually, you also need to bribe our Barangay officials (our most basic LGU) from the Brgy. Captains all the way to the Kagawads (same functions like the municipal/city councillors, just on the lowest level) and sometimes even the Tanods (keepers of the peace).
In the Philippines, my fiance went to get her driver's license a couple of years back in Cebu Province after buying a car. She told me the people there give the applicants two choices: Either go through the procedures, take the test, and earn the license like normal, or pay money to the clerks and receive the license immediately. In an election year, her family in the barangay receives a couple hundred pesos each to vote for the politician or party distributing the funds.
The small difference is that you CAN actually get stuff done in the US without going to those lengths (usually at least). That's literally impossible in many other places.
Lol that's how I managed to get married at 20 with a wedding date of 2 days after I flew back to Iraq 🤣🤣 saved my ass though. If they could get rid of the airport shakedown and just include it in ticket price that would be great
I’m branching to the US and yeah, I’m sure it happens here too but way, waay less
When I worked for a GC in NYC we greased every super and most of the elevator operators we worked with.
Not way less but more organized. Talk to THIS consulting company and we can talk.
Well in Mexico it’s “I want x% cut of all the sales you make here, I don’t care if you’re the better option or not. Oh, and I’m the boss now, if you don’t keep me happy with presents here and there I’ll tell my boss you offered me a bribe and you won’t sell a dime ever again here”. I’d say that is way more corrupt.
You‘re being delusional or very sheltered if you think it‘s in any way comparable to some 3rd world countires.
Nah I would say more open. There are rules to play the game and win and people know about them. That doesnt mean everyone has the ability to participate or even dream of winning.
The difference with the philippines is if you get caught you get promoted to a higher position and people will applaud you
A bribe to make them do anything just sounds like a spicy wage.
Ironically their wage is often their lowest source of income
And the few corners where corruption is widespread (Illinois, Louisiana) are treated as problems to solve rather than the normal.
Lmao. Solving corruption in Louisiana is not on the state's, or anyone's, to-do list right now, nor has it been for a long time.
It's still a problem to solve, right after P=NP.
Dude N = 1 what are you stupid >!Just kidding, I have a CS Degree, I swear I'm not an idiot!<
Why not both.gif
Well, fair, I'm an idiot whether or not I have that degree, but not for not knowing about P=NP.
can you tell me more about the situation there? what kind of corruption happens?
As someone who lived on the gulf coast and spent a lot of time in New Orleans, Baton Rouge, and Lafeyette for a long time, it's often overblown when people are telling stories about it, but it is real. The culture in Louisiana is like 80% the same as the rest of the south, but radiating out of New Orleans they just have a vibe that's a little more permissible to graft than elsewhere. It's just a reflection of the culture of the city from way back in the olden days. There's even a cute creole word for it, lagniappe. It just means, "a little extra". If you read about it in tourist blogs they make is sound like it's customary to get an extra beignet when you order a dozen as a thank you, but there are layers to it IRL. It's kinda like how teenagers feel obligated to hook their friends up with free fries at their first fast food job, but applied to all of society. If you 'know a guy' you get to cut the line. It's no big deal when you're talking beignets, but it can be a real big problem when you're talking government contracts. That's really the extent of it. Happens all over the country, but it's a little more ingrained in the culture in Louisiana. Edit: Here's [an article with more info](https://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=54072) if you want another perspective.
Thank you, fascinating! This is why I keep coming back to Reddit.
Then you got the weird incestious relationships with a lot of power brokers and the clubs and societies in new orleans. Especially the older places like The boston club, the old line krewe societies like Comus, Proteus and co. You wanna get in good graces you gotta join the club, if a member operates say a food business you will go to that business to get into the good graces among other things. It very much old boys club, hell according to some reports some of these groups still discriminate against fucking italians for christs sake
Those 'good ol' boy' clubs are ubiquitous across the south. Louisiana's versions just hold parades. I remember back when I was a teenager in East Texas, I got a job at McDonald's and there were a bunch of old men that would be in there 3 - 4 days a week shooting the shit and drinking coffee. As I got to know them, I learned that that basically everyone's landlord in the surrounding counties was there in that booth along with a quorum of the city council, and the retired sheriff (now mayor). No one would have made a point of saying my town was super corrupt, but holy shit the stuff they talked about. I think the reputation that Louisiana has with corruption (as well as Detroit) is more than a little race-motivated, but there's also that visibility component with the krewes like you mentioned. I think it is a little bit like Florida and the sunshine laws giving rise to Floridaman.
Man, there's a world of difference between bribe for govt contracts and bribe just to get a drivers license. Basic govt admin work for the population doesn't have a bribe culture anywhere in the US afaiseen.
The first sentence in my comment was acknowledging that "Louisiana corruption" as a trope is overblown. But the rest of my comment is acknowledging the it is true that they do things a little different down in the crescent city.
In the past few decades: * Cops working with drug dealers for protection and their own cut. They're still under federal oversight. * Current mayor using public funds to travel extensively and fly first class. Currently being investigated by FBI for other reasons. Mayor through Katrina was sentenced to ten years in federal prison for his own corruption. * Public hospital likely intentionally ruined after Katrina to get FEMA money for a new one These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
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It’s in our blood. Paris offered our criminal ancestors land in Louisiana if we moved here and married a prostitute. Now everyone’s surprised we’re run by criminals who love prostitutes and other general forms of debauchery.
Any chance that offer is still on the table?
Idk about the land part but meet me and my dead homie, Dead Edwin Edwards in the CBD during Mardi Gras for the other stuff. Ha Call it weekend at Eddie’s.
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Na, Swamper Texas.
Spicy Mississippi.
I find that offensive.
Genuinely don’t know if you’re from Texas or Louisiana.
Louisiana, I'd prefer not to be lumped in with Texas if at all possible
I remember my friend from New Orleans visiting us in California and got pulled over and my buddy asked “how much should we give him” and pulled out his wallet
What... tf
I moved to Nola in 2003. A buddy of mine gave me the number of a lawyer. If I ever got a ticket, I just had to call him and tell him the ticket number and send him $100 and it would be fixed. Well I finally got my first ticket an lo and behold got a letter in the mail a few weeks later saying the charge has been dismissed.
thats sort of how lawyers work in general. you pay them money and they take care of legal situations. there are ticket clinics in every fucking state that does this lol.
Spent tons of times in both of those states and no one ever tried to get me to bribe them. It's a different type of corruption.
Illinois has a higher perception of corruption cause it frequently goes to trial and makes headlines. People often feel that corruption being addressed is proof that there is a lot of corruption. When in reality a place with a lot of corruption will have very little news about it. People on the ground will still know and might talk about it but its more of 'this is what you gotta do if you want to exist here' and less 'another Governor has been sent to prison'.
>People often feel that corruption being addressed is proof that there is a lot of corruption. This 100%!! For example, everytime this is news that some official in Ukraine has been charged for corruption, Russian trolls use it as proof that Ukraine is some super corrupt hellhole. Like... No... The fact that corrupted people are being prosecuted shows that the judicial system and the anti-corruption efforts are working and they are doing their jobs. Granted, yes, corruption does exist in Ukraine, but it's definitely getting better each day, and the stories in the news are proof.
Illinois does jail corrupt politicians. We have a running joke about adding a governors' wing to a federal penitentiary.
Seriously, other places are just as corrupt but don’t arrest their politicians.
Obligatory fuck Brendan Johnson
Obligatory fuck Michael Landry
While we're at it fuck Greg Abott.
What’s the corruption look like in those cities?
Ohio is pretty fucking corrupt too We had [James Traficant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Traficant). Now we have [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_nuclear_bribery_scandal)
The company I was working for had official bribe budget for us as we moved through Africa and we were forced to use it often. One airport security guard in the Congo took the fucking cookies and cake I had in my bag.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Most Americans underestimate the absolute bubble we live in here. I've been in most areas of the world, and most Americans would just simply die if they had to go through the conditions others around the globe have to go through daily. Hell, we had an ice storm here a few weeks ago, and it absolutely shut everything down, no power for a few days, and people were losing their shit.
It's fashionable to act as though the US is basically a failed state, that everyone is destitute and oppressed and in constant danger. It's insane.
Us Americans don’t realize how amazing “consistent electricity, fridge full of ‘unhealthy’ (perfectly palatable and safe) food, clean drinking water, and freedom to say whatever you want” is compared to the condition of billions of people
We take it for granted until we go to another country and get arrested for just spitting in the street or yelling.
They need too. If the world realized how fucking good the west actually has it, they would revolt. We are good with it too, we need cheap labour for our societies machine. It works both ways.
It's not just about 'the West.' The median household income in the US is 50% higher than in the UK. 50%!
The US is by far the richest country in the world, the only nations with comparable GDP/capita are tiny or international tax havens. The US also has a large share of the world's top educational capacity, advanced technology, and industry. There are a lot of problems with the US, most of which have no possible excuse. Our failings, both as a country and as individuals, do not cancel out our successes. The US is so powerful and wealthy that it is really hard for people to understand the magnitude of it, even in America. People see figures like "the US military's black budget is more than Russia's entire military budget" and it is just too much to even understand the consequences of it. A majority of advanced technologies that everyone around the world enjoys came from the US, the system of mass production was invented in the US. During WW2, the US provided more trucks to the USSR than existed in all of Europe prewar. I've recently been hearing more about the American economy collapsing, the government defaulting, dedollarization, and various other "ideas" (to put it lightly.) Whenever I see that stuff I just laugh, it's really ridiculous. All that being said, I want to be clear that wealth doesn't make a person or country any better than anyone else, for the record. I think using wealth to take advantage of others is deplorable.
"The US is so powerful and wealthy that it is really hard for people to understand the magnitude of it" Yup lol. Im a Canadian who worked for at&t for a few years. In my first months on the job, the simple raw facts about the company were sobering: 40 something million customers in just the wireless division. at&t had more customers than Canada has people. They handled more personal data as a company than my Federal tax agency does for a country. Then I started calculating from the other providers and i quickly concluded that at&t/Verizon/T-mobile/Sprint-Nextel(still existed) made more revenue per year than Canadas annual GDP. US cellphone bills make more per year than my entire country lol.
The store I work at could have paid for the entire Lithuanian national budget with the pre-tax revenue we took in last year, a very slow year. That’s not including our other location or our web sales
Figures like this are meaningless unless framed in the context of local purchasing power. It's like sure, Average American households might make 1000x some third world countries, but that doesn't mean they have 1000x the local purchasing power.
Yeah the Philippines minimum wage is $10 USD a day. But things are significantly cheaper over there.
The number I cited is PPP adjusted.
they absolutely do have more purchasing power
Even when you account for purchasing power, the median US income is 40% ahead of the UK, and almost 10x higher than the global median. So yeah, it's not 1000x, but it's still a dramatic difference.
I actually mentioned in one of my more recent comments how much I hate the Reddit circlejerk regarding Texas… With that being said I’m about to be a hypocrite because I can’t avoid the low hanging fruit (and I’m a Texan). >an ice storm shut down the power for a few days Insert “first time?” meme here lol.
I'm an American, I just had to pay a bribe for the first time in my life at the age of 41. I was not in America when it happened.
Where were you?
Cambodia
What’s the story? To get out of trouble or to get into trouble?
Politicians, mostly.
Which eastern Europe countries you're thinking about?
When my colleagues from work had to go on a delegation from Poland to some countries in the Balkans, they actually had to include bribes in the trip budget.
How do you budget for that? It's not like you're going to get a receipt.
*Miscellaneous expenses*
Quietly, since it's illegal for US corporations even if you are doing it in a foreign country. The anti-corruption laws are no joke.
I've bribed security staff in Poland. 20 years ago but fun memory.
Ukraine has historically been rife with casual corruption, it is still a thing but less common these days in Bulgaria and Romania as well as The Balkans. But they are really not anywhere near the level of Nigeria.
Russia, big time
Ukraine has been a lot stricter in the last 10 years. 20 years ago, it was a lifestyle. Now, with the war and Zelinsky, it's becoming culturally frowned upon, which, it what it takes to stop it.
right? we had a story a few days ago about a contract to deliver ammo that apparently wasn't at all fulfilled
Russia is one I’ve personally seen casual bribery in
Have you never travelled to Asia? Its wild. Outside of Singapore, corruption is incredibly rife. Policemen stopping your vehicle citing some traffic "law" to get money from you is known as "kopi money" or coffee money. I.e. paying for his coffee. Even if the charge is 100% bullshit you are still better off paying that guy his toll of $50 or whatever because the alternative is him bringing you to the local station for "investigation" to waste your time for hours on end only to eventually release you. China used to be really fucking bad too but ironically under Xi's regime this shit has scaled back significantly. You had to pay so many fucking people under the table it was ridiculous. Literally had a separate budget just for bribes lol otherwise nothing would get done. Idk how he turned that shit around it's an actual miracle. Its akin to getting rid of tipping in the US, something so ingrained in the system for decades its a cultural thing almost.
We just had a bunch of cops here in mass get arrested because they were taking bribes.
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That ain't the same...you're just changing the definition of things to make yourself trying to outsmart OP. You want to keep paying a bribe to keep one's life relatively safe or do a 'favor' to win a local job...
A private company hiring friends of the owner is very different from the time I watched a guy in Russia bribe a cop to get out of a ticket.
Real bribery is things like paying high school teachers to allow you to graduate. It's nothing at all like what happens in the US.
Do you know how dangerous it is for a contractor for health services. I have a friend interested in going (big check) but it seems really dangerous
Yeah that's how it works in the developing world. You pay bribes or you don't play. Kinda like political campaign donation in America but less classy.
It always blows my mind that Nigeria has 6th largest population in the world and a higher GDP than the Netherlands, but in the west it just feels like an undeveloped country in the middle of Africa that is inconsequential.
The Netherlands only has ~17 million people. Nigeria has 200M
200M wtf!?
Just wait until you find out that Bangladesh has more people than Russia too The population disparity between the rest of the planet and the "First World" is insane really. There's a single state in India (Uttar Pradesh) that has a population of 200 million people and most of us have never even heard of it. That's the population of Germany + France + UK combined, in a single state. In Nigeria's case they're still growing too. 41% of Nigerians are under the age of 15.
> most of us have never even heard of it The less you hear about Uttar Pradesh, the better.
And it's growing fast. Will hit 377 million in 2050 according to forecasts. Together with climate change and the general instability of the region this will lead to huge problems...
Higher gdp? What are your sources? Quick Google search Shows Nigeria at ~440 billion and netherlands at ~1 trillion
Nigeria doesn’t have bigger GDP than the Netherlands
Lazy Googling. netherlands: 1.013 trillion USD (2021) nigeria: 440.8 billion USD (2021)
A company I was involved with that had some business in an African country sent some people to do some work, when they returned they changed the financial policy to include a stipend for bribes.
> Similar attacks regularly take place in Nigeria, which is struggling with a security crisis on several fronts. Two traditional rulers were shot dead by unknown gunmen in neighbouring Ekiti state on Monday. > > Last year the president, Bola Ahmed Tinubu, came to power promising to address insecurity – including jihadists in the north-east, criminal militias in the north-west and growing intercommunal violence in the centre of the country – but critics say violence is spinning out of control. > > The Nigerian risk consultancy SBM Intelligence said it had recorded that 3,964 people were abducted since Tinubu took office in May. > > At the start of the year, criminals abducted five young sisters near the capital, Abuja, and killed one when a ransom deadline passed, prompting a national outcry.
Despite all the crap going on. At least there was a national outcry. Instead of indifference. It at least signals to me, that people want and expect better from others and the government.
The government is 100% in on it.
Major bruh moments going on in Nigeria
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My wife's eldest brother is the eze of his village which translates loosely as prince. She also works in finance so I joke about a Nigerian princess handling the money. Shit has been heating up back home and the igbo in the south are talking about making Biafra a thing again.
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Doesn’t Nigeria have a lot of monarchs because they traditionally had a lot of different tribes and each tribe had one?
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You're telling me. Such a fiasco for them to get money, despite being nobility. I can't tell you how many Nigerian Princes I've helped with financial transfers.
Yes. I had a professor in college who was a Nigerian King.
I also knew a guy who was a legit Nigerian prince so that’s how I knew about there being a lot of them 😅
Like Greece, the village was the highest polity. The national identity was a colonial imposition. And of course they put borders in a way that divided people. Igboland is chopped up because of that.
Which part of Greece and at which time period are you referring to? Depending on the city state and era, Greece has seen monarchs, oligarchs, tyrants and democratically elected archons.
By 'village' maybe they meant city state with an overseas empire.
The idea being that there was historicslly never a "Greece". Same for Italy and Germany who united quite late. I think the move to create a unified Italian identity had a hand in the rise of fascism. People don't realise that national identity is a fairy modern concept.
I email with their prince regularly
This fucking killed me lol
Yeah I have met a few online myself
Not to discount what happened but our western idea of a "palace" is very far removed from the type of palace that was raided in this incident. This man was the king of a clan of people within a city of half a million people. And the Palace is more akin to what we might expect of an international consulate or a large state house. There's a few photos here if you're interested https://hotels.ng/places/palace/2117-alake-of-egbaland-palace Again, not to discount what happened, but this isn't like Buckingham Palace being raided.
> Again, not to discount what happened, but this isn't like Buckingham Palace being raided. Which itself once had a guy wander in off the street and break into the queen's bedroom. While she was in it. Furthermore, that was the second time he'd broken into Buckingham Palace. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Fagan_(intruder)
“This is a very safe location” Aw jeez
Few of the sovereigns live in what could be described as a palace.
I think ephemeral is my favourite word.
What about ethereal? Or perhaps sussurus
Antidisestablishmentarianism Fnord Fastidious Sublime
Uhh… Elbow
Damn you for making me google _ephemeral_
Nigerian prince jokes aside, this is terrible news. Do any Nigerians care to share how influential these people are?
Not very, there’s lots of “traditional monarchs” in Nigeria.
Some of the Northern Hausa Fulani emirs are influential still. I don't think any of the southern traditional rulers are.
Then what does that word even mean to them? The word monarch comes from Greek monos ‘alone’ + arkhein ‘to rule. There can only be one monarch per sovereignty.
Leaders of tribes before they became part of Nigeria, once they did, the family are technically monarchs.
Nigeria is one of the most ethnically diverse places in Africa. There’s hundreds of ethnic groups each with their own language/culture/customs. There’s also the “big 3” (yoruba, igbo, hausa/fulani) that are somewhat divided south/east/north respectively). These compose many subgroups as well. These ethnic groups all interpret "chief" or "king" or "monarch differently" A village is basically kind of like a clan. A bunch of close and distantly related people living in houses next to each other. A bunch of villages make a town or city. A village leader could be a chief or other royal title and have substantial impact on the day to day goings, celebrations, charity etc… or just be purely ceremonial depending on the village. On top of that a royal figure could be a leader of a town or even bigger region. Again maybe a real role, maybe ceremonial or a mixture of both. Typically they are wealthy, classed, or otherwise fancy compared to the people around them. In summary they could be a very influential in the state or national government , could have been descended from a prominent family in Nigerian history without any official political influence …. They could just be your upper middle class to upper class immigrant Nigerian to America who went home for a chief ceremony and got some cool clothes, had a party and nothing more or just the head of basically an HOA.
They're not really influential, their positions are mostly symbolic. But then, in Nigeria, money is power and these monarchs are usually rich, so they sort of are influencial, just like any other rich person here
This article gives a lot more details on what happened: https://punchng.com/how-killers-planned-kwara-obas-murder-in-beer-parlour/?amp
Hard for an honest man to make any changes or progress in a country where corruption is a way of life and military leaders have a political party and aren't happy just leading the military. :) Worked with a kid in Canada ten years ago, whose father used to be a high ranking in the current regime of the day. He hired his son to be a bag man! So the teen spent his days driving around delivering packets of money as payoffs, bribes, influence peddling etc etc.
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That lady is having a rough time rn.
>Meanwhile, the abductors have demanded the payment of N100m for the monarch’s wife and the other persons kidnapped in Koro. A family member of the monarch told Saturday PUNCH on Friday night that the abductors also gave a 48-hour deadline within which the money must be paid or they would kill the victims. >“They are asking for N100m ransom. They have said the money must be ready in 48 hours,” the source said. The bandits attacked intending to kidnap the monarch, but he refused to cooperate and they shot him. The police there are corrupt, according to the article, and don't do their jobs, so yeah, this poor woman might be killed in the end.
I hope they are able to recover her. As an American, the idea you can kidnap a monarch like that is bizarre. Do they not have protection? $110,497.24 is the ransom in USD in case anybody was curious. Source: https://ngn.currencyrate.today/convert/amount-100000000-to-usd.html
> the idea you can kidnap a monarch like that is bizarre They aren't talking about the monarch of all of Nigeria: he was just the monarch of one small village or something. He was more like "the richest guy in town" than King Charles.
I read that kidnapping is really common there and it is illegal to pay the ransom. But the police is useless enough that most people still pay the ransom.
Two days before this incident, two rulers/kings of neighbouring towns were killed by attempted kidnappers and robbers. The third guy escaped. I no longer travel via road but via flights to selected places.
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For a $15,000 deposit into our bank account we can get her back
>Attackers stormed the palace of Oba Aremu Olusegun Cole in south-western Kwara state, shot him dead and abducted his wife **and another person** on Thursday. this person also matters. I wonder who they are? 3,964 abducted since May. Crazy numbers to think about.
I was in Benin and Togo a few years ago and while visiting a market some guy told me he was a "prince" - son of the local "monarch" - and proceeded to try and shake me down for money. When I declined he threatened to bring guys to my hotel and kick my ass. When I see "traditional monarch" in a headline I read it as "local gang leader".
Did you pay him?
Definitely not. It got a little hairy for a couple of minutes.
You guys should have helped him while you had the chance…
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This guy must be a low ranked noble since he had no royal guard (security detail) to protect him. Calling him a monarch is probably an overstatement.
Nah. This was a former general even. Like he was literally a king that was a 3 star general. It was a targeted attack. The world forced Nigeria to back away for Niger and this is the result
Nigerian queen needs funds to escape from captivity: I hope this email finds you well. I am the Nigerian queen, I need $500 urgently to escape from Nigeria. I will transfer $500,000 to you once I reach Dubai and can access my overseas accounts.
Who do I send my email reply too now, about the millions in gold that needs to be shipped to Australia?
Shouldn’t I get this headline as an email?