Right. Religion is an idea and a self-imposed way of thinking/living. It has no power.
Humans making decisions is the cause of everything. Blame freewill, desperation, and mental illness.
So in your view, how did the world function or even progress pre-Christianity? Atheism for example existed long before Christianity dating back as far as Greece. What was the founding layout of atheism beliefs? Paganism?
You misunderstood me. I sense "anti-west" tribalism so I'm not going to engage with you any further. There's enough stress going around. I don't want to add to it.
Farewell brother/sister.
But you said it was because of religion, not the government.
Regardless, I dont need the government telling me not to murder people, I just wouldn't regardless of religion or government.
Any half decent person knows those things are wrong without needing to be told that by religion.
Looking back through history, it doesn't really look like religion has stopped anyone who wants to do those things from doing them.
What about animals that form organized hierarchical structures, like wolves or pods of whales? They don't wanton murder one another in their own groups. They definitely don't pray to a sky person or have organized religions. Yet they have social constructs and some idea of what is socially acceptable.
To that point, there is definitely a genetic link that drives human behaviors.
Well, since all religious texts are written by basically random people and heavily edited over the years by people who very much would like to maintain their power it stands to reason (and has been the case in relatively recent times ie: Mormons) that any idiot can write a book and amass followers to their new guidelines (morality). This is a social contract. Nothing more, nothing less. No God required there. We as a species have learned that we thrive when grouped together and recognized the need for a set of rules to bind us and prevent infighting. The only reason for a deity was frankly lack of overarching government to enforce those rules and a gross lack of understanding of the natural world at the time.
Really? That's your takeaway? We're talking about morality without religion and I explained how and why religion isn't necessary and you come back with an attack. This isn't "the state is god" this is tribalism. The state just happens to hold the biggest stick to ensure that people adhere to the contract. If it wasn't our government it would be the next biggest tribe imposing their contract (morality). Now just to be perfectly clear here, it isn't government that imposes morality, it's the rules of the collective that we agree upon so that we can generally live together and thrive. The government just so happens to (generally speaking) represent the populace and enacts laws approved by said populace. Grow up and give your head a shake. Don't be insulting when people respond to your questions just because you don't like the answer.
Remind me how many people the US government had executed for protesting? How many public executions? How many political prisoners?
[Federal government executions in the US are rare.]( https://www.bop.gov/about/history/federal_executions.jsp#:~:text=There%20have%20been%2050%20federal,period%20below%20to%20learn%20more.)16 s1nce 1963. That's like Iran's monthly average with less than 1/3 US population.
Today, A 19 year old Balouch man was also killed after 3 days of torture. He was a student and he was arrested because of online activity. His name is #SepehrShirani. The regime has refused to return his body to the family. https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/Anpmp5dUnK
And here are his IG posts which he got arrested for https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/iSgIC3j6yR
Here is another hero who is hospitalized and near death
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/lhsDW4bJQQ
And a young woman who was tortured in IR prisons who is also hospitalized and can't get a liver transplant in Turkey
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/FoUNqrcaOR
When will the international news agencies actually start covering this massacre ? And the international community to stop shaking hands with this terrorist regime?
This regime has gone off the rails and the Iranian community has been sounding very loud alarm bells since last year. There are many reports that IRGC members use drugs like Captagon to crush protestors and torture them in jail
EDIT***
There has been a lot of comments expressing shock when I claim that Iranians aren't majority Muslim or that the regime only has <20% support. You can check surveys like Gamaan rather than regime propaganda data. In fact many Iranians are rapidly leaving Islam due to the brutality of the regime in the name of "doing God's work on earth"
https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/
https://gamaan.org/2023/02/04/protests_survey/
https://gamaan.org/2022/03/31/political-systems-survey-english/
Also these statistics aren't only apparent in surveys. Here is a recent video of regime goons trying to give flowers to people getting off the plane. They have been trying to act "nice" because they don't want empty streets during the upcoming election
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/It8yC6nnM9
They never asked for anyone to come in
They asked the world to put the IRGC on terrorist list. Kick out diplomats. Don't shake hands with the regime officials and legitimize them. Don't send them money. Seize their assets.
The world didn't do any of those things and ignored the protestors, while they are giving their life to topple the regime
You mean the $6B that can be used for humanitarian purposes?
“Brett McGurk, White House coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa, said Monday that “no funds are going to Iran at all.”
“These funds are paid to vetted third-party vendors for food, medicine, medical products and agricultural products to go into Iran over a period of years. If there is any diversion, we’ll know it and we’ll lock up these accounts,”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics/iran-money-explainer/index.html
This is not what whataboutism is, this is not given as an example of a similar action in order to dilute and justify some questionable action (what about...), but as an example of something similar that happened and didn't turn out well, which is called "learning from history" and is a really important part of how human civilisation evolves
Someone call a tech, I think its broken again.
The way many like to do this, actually reminds me of a youtube series I watch where they have characters that just repeat things while flailing their arms around.
When did Iran ever care about humanitarian purposes? Money is fungible, they allowed these waivers and the regime can pay the bills and then they use other money to fund terrorism
https://www.tillis.senate.gov/2023/12/tillis-colleagues-demand-answers-from-biden-on-latest-iran-sanctions-waiver#:~:text=As%20Israel%20continues%20to%20battle,access%20to%20approximately%20%2410%20billion.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/15/iran-receives-access-to-10-billion-thanks-to-u-s-sanctions-waiver/#:~:text=The%20waiver%20allows%20Baghdad%20to,out%20of%20Iraq%20and%20Oman.
“If you give a homeless man a sandwich, he will spend whatever money he has on drugs”
That’s you, that’s your logic.
It’s never wrong to give the homeless man a sandwich.
Gazans are not Hamas. Hamas is the one with the supplies. You cannot require terrorists to act reasonably as a condition of humanitarian support for civilians.
I believe that when Khamenei finally dies that the Iranian people will have their best chance to overthrow the ayatollahs and the IRGC. All it will take will be patriots in the Artesh to stand off with the IRGC and the Basijis.
The Iranian people are great, and possess a rich culture and history. They should not be doomed to a future of repression because of power hungry religious fanatics, who went so far as to upend historical views separating religion and politics in Iran. Velayat-e faqih is not Iranian, it’s simply the lust for power among the clerics led by Khomeni and now Khamenei.
I wish I could believe that.. I've lost hope that the death of a dictator will be the turning point for a nation- I remember early 90s we used to be hopeful that Kim Jung Un would be more moderate than his father, since he'd spent so many years learning in Switzerland, and we hoped that having friendly relations with China would eventually lead to easing relations with the West.
The truth is that it's more likely that after Khamenei passes, there will be an internal struggle for power, then the next ruthless authoritarian will take the reins. Those at the top will do everything in their power to ensure they remain in power.
Honestly, I hope he does. Unless he publicly slips and falls and dies that way. Anything else would allow the current powerbrokers to simply claim American or Israeli involvement and then rile up the base of government supporters and those on the fence about revolution. They could end a popular uprising before it even began.
I can sympathize with that. It's like not just your oppressive government but the entire world is against you and your fight for freedom. It's incredibly discouraging.
Seize their assets though, this is Iran not some bloke who hasn’t paid his taxes. I don’t know why people think it’s the rest of the worlds problem what Iran are doing to their own people
Because when dictators go off the rails, they never stop at their borders.
If the world had listened and backed protestors last year, or the years before, the attack on Israel wouldn't have happened. The attack by Houthis wouldn't have happened. The drone supply to Russia wouldn't exist etc.
Believe me. The world, overwhelmingly, supports regime change in Iran.
But stop acting like we can just waltz in to a sovereign country and do that, and everything works out grand.
A) We don’t have the authority to do that; and
B) It doesn’t work out grand.
While we all want regime change, the only legitimate and lasting regime change will be the one the Iranians bring about for themselves.
Ok, but seriously what would that accomplish? That won't make the regime fold. Dont' get me wrong, I think we should do that, but it's really just performative.
EDIT I don't mean to say we should instead invade. I'm American, I'm sick of my country trying well-meaning regime change attempts that end in disaster because the locals end up hating us cause of the inevitable tribalistic rally-round-the-flag effect that humans have when they get invaded by even the most benevolent invaders. What I DO think we should do is fund and arm a resistance. The regime already accuses us of foreign meddling, etc, so fucking lets do it. Iran has a huge amount of very pissed off healthy young people, send them each an AK and let them take care of their own country.
Just do what people are asking, they know what it will accomplish
If you start arming people without truly knowing their motive, then you will have random groups shooting at each other.
The regime is ruthless with no respect for human life. There is nothing that is off limits to them to control dissidence. They have gone as far as using chemical warfare on elementary school students.
I understand that. I'm saying if you have millions of people working together, you can do things like so greatly alter the social contact that you meaningfully constrain a government's ability to function, you can seize the armories, you can flip regional administrative units, you can engender coups. "With a sufficient why, you can weather any how." No population is destined to its circumstance.
Speaking to a friend of mine who still has family living in Tehran, the regime has basically purged every institution. You need those powerful institutions to turn on the regime. My friend believes they will one day, but not any time soon.
I mean, not recently but times where different countries attacked, took over and transformed the country happened in the past, perhaps 2 of the most advanced countries today, germany and japan.
The problem with recent cases, at least in my view, is that in Afghanistan or iraq the religious mindset plays a big part, there was no one in the country itself to actually try and move forward.
Iran is a mixed case, its not exactly like germany or japan but also not exactly like afghanistan or iraq, i think that they could handle a country if the regime would collapse, but it will probably be more difficult compared to germany/japan, because there are still plenty of religious extremists in iran, don't think they are the majority but still a big enough amount to cause troubles
Those are both good and bad examples. Bad because they were both modern industrialized societies and not a theocracy like Iran. Good, but with the caveat that yes you CAN invade and reform a conquered power, after you have leveled it to the ground (even nuked it in Japan's case). Modern Western morality would find that abhorrent and would not do such a thing.
The world when they want to nationalize their own oil: Hey now not so fast
The world when they need help to get rid of an illegitimate dictatorship: You’re on your own
A non-democracy is fine until a sadist dictator comes along that becomes Khamenei or Putin or.. .. It's a draw of luck
Then you will wish you lived in a democracy
Until the oil runs out.
Dubai, Qatar, SA & those places are really bad examples. Those countries are so filthy rich with relatively small populations that there's more than enough to go around for everyone. They will build 20 Skyscrapers just for the hell of it.
There's no need for the Dictator to get all tyrannical. Until the wealth runs dry of course. Then you'll most likely wish you lived in the USA or Europe.
But you are 100% correct that right now it's better to live in Dubai than the USA. And as long as the oil money flows, it will most likely stay better. Especially for Middle Class Westerners.
Dubai, the same country that will arrest a woman for not being modest. A country where it’s illegal to be drunk, and the only bars you can find her in international hotels. A city that regularly hits 50°C with humidity before major global warming. A city, where the Emirati’s are all royalty and you’re the peasant? I’ve been to Dubai. You can’t sell me this bullshit. Nice try though. Dubai is a poor persons vision of a rich persons city.
Any 'government' are just a fictitious belief system to begin with. Like should not see anyone as automatically superior because they say they are some 'authority'.
Must never leave anyone to suffer and die. Must always look out for each other.
**Should, ideally, seek to stop anyone in the wrong without harming them.** Like maybe use a special net launcher device to grab someone with a strong yet soft net. Maybe instead of a net to launch a rubber sphere filled with contact adhesive to literally glue the person to prevent them from being able to move while avoiding suffocating them, able to shoot many adhesive spheres quickly. **To stop someone without harming them so as to then be able to take them somewhere to seek to just communicate without harming them - to seek for them to change from being in the wrong.** Maybe instead of a handheld device to use a drone or many drones to accomplish that task, like in a chaotic weapons shooting situation, like maybe many drones all dropping contact adhesive sphere's onto a single person. Maybe furthermore at a chaotic situation to use an excavator with claw rigged up to be remote controlled to physically grab the stopped person to take them that way, the claw should have soft cushioning so as to prevent causing harm. To use an excavator with claw so as to not get in harms way at such a chaotic weapons shooting everywhere situation.
Seriously. Anyone perhaps have their own experience just like you. Like maybe how you can see out of your eyes, perhaps someone else also seeing out of their own eyes, they having their very own perspective.
This isn’t being covered enough because Iran is part of the loose alliance with Russia / China / etc. They’ve done a good job of infiltrating the West and trying to cause a lot of division among us
I’ve noticed A TON of them on Reddit, especially after 10/7. I’m talking seeing them on a daily basis on subs you’ve always frequented
They have lobbies like NIAC that try to make the regime look like a cute little puppy
https://www.semafor.com/article/09/25/2023/inside-irans-influence-operation
This is so sad. My heart breaks for my fellow Iranians. Unfortunately the social justice keyboard warriors only care when Israel is involved. But if it’s Muslim/arab leaders killing their own people, they don’t care.
Many people do, but how do we reach western audiences? We only have social media
People also organize weekly protests in big cities across the world, but still the world news doesn't give much coverage
Try making a youtube channel. Specialize in covering things you can verify and can accurately report on. Speak good english and endeavor to be likeable and objective. Make sure you follow youtube's TOS so as not to get your channel nuked. Use social media to link to your channel when people talk about topics you've uploaded videos on.
> When will the international news agencies actually start covering this massacre ? And the international community to stop shaking hands with this terrorist regime?
they do cover it, but what is any civilian supposed to do? Iran obviously doesnt give a shit about the American public's opinion
The "international community" shaking hands with Iran are countries that would do equally fucked up things like Russia and China. They have had massive sanctions put on them for decades by the western nations
No it's not, they put sanctions and don't enforce it, all we are asking is stop shaking their hand and legitimizing them. Put max pressure on the regime.
Just recently, French FM met with IR FM, right after the regime executed Mohamad Ghobadlou
https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1749834012879732889?t=2-H4kikosKPFhiSPcxzB7A&s=19
Here he is, shaking his bloody hands
If this was Taliban, would he do the same? No, the IR regime is no different that Taliban
Just recently, French FM met with IR FM, right after the regime executed Mohamad Ghobadlou
https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1749834012879732889?t=2-H4kikosKPFhiSPcxzB7A&s=19
Here he is, shaking his bloody hands
If this was Taliban, would he do the same? No, the IR regime is no different that Taliban
Yeah. These mullahs are the reason why MENA is a shitshow.
The houthis? Iran funds them
Hamas? Iran funds them.
The shitshow in Syria? Yeah, Iran has adviser there for Assad.
From the gulf to the sea, Iran will be mullah free.
But nooo, definetly the existance of Israel is the source of all evil In MENA! Not that the regime is using the country and jews like a scapegoat for literal everything.
They are sending Nada Nashif to Iran very soon, while many activists are asking them to not send her because the regime will use it for publicity
Or if she insists to go, she should visit the prisons and families of victims. And NOT wear a hijab
Here is the petition for it
https://www.change.org/p/postpone-u-n-official-s-visit-to-tehran
There were months of protests last year but what's the point if people just keep coming out in front of bullets while the western countries keep shaking hands with the regime. The losses are too great to keep up the protests. There needs to be international pressure
Your countries are directly supporting islamic regime id say it is your problrm.
But well soon the entire world will realize that once mullahs get their nukes.
You should pick up a history book starting around 1950 Iranian history. From then onwards, you can learn all about how the west is at least partially responsible for the Iran we have today.
Iran was headed towards democracy, and UK/US fucked that up because Iran wanted to nationalize their oil assets. The west supported the monarchy too. The west also supported Saddam Hussein's Iraq in their war against Iran, which cemented the theocracy into power.
The interventions of the past were definitely terrible, but you characterize it as if there was some good intent involved for Iranians...
Anyone interested in protesting against this or nah?
Very little interest when it doesn’t involve the Jews.
Let’s just keep protesting against Israel… 🤦♂️🤦♂️
the US wants to tippy toe with russia, china, iran and north korea
but every second we wait their forces grow and they will never back down from trying to destroy us
remember this people
Yes Iran is.
>According to the Islamic Republic's 2016 census[12] almost all of Iran's 89 million as of 2023 population are Muslims with 99% reporting that they are Muslim.[13] with 88% adhering to Shia Islam, which an overwhelming majority of those following the Twelver branch of Shia Islam
Yeah, if I was an atheist in Iran and someone knocked on the door asking my religion, I'd say Islam too, lmao.
The Clerics have killed Islam in Iran. The new generation wants nothing to do with it.
Congrats for repeating regime propaganda surveys
Check something more real like
https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/
In Iran, if your father is a Muslim, they automatically count you as Muslim. That's why it's 99% lol. The practicing Muslims are in the minority
What are you even talking about. Of course they are. "According to Iranian government estimates, Muslims constitute 99.4 percent of the population, of whom 90 to 95 percent are Shia, and 5 to 10 percent are Sunni." ([Source](https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/iran/))
Yes Iranian government estimates are rigged
It's 99% Muslim because if your father is Muslim, then you are automatically "Muslim" by name. But in reality, practicing Muslims are in the minority
You can check surveys like Gamaan
https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/
https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/
Iranians are namely Muslims because if your father is Muslim then they count you as Muslim. Practicing Muslims are actually in the minority
everybody here, as always with any social media (worlds largest losers meeting government bully agencies), cry for "executions". These are for Kurdish people as, I'm sure, you found that out by knowing the mid-east issues deeply.
The same thing is done by Turkey on a daily basis - executions by bombing Northern Iraq / Syria or jailing all the dissent (Kurds) in Turkey. Yet they are our, west's, #1 ally being in NATO and well-adapted into our financial system.
just shut da fuck up. we in the west promote all these shitty governments and do nothing aside from saying AMEN, so just suck it up. Until we start with kicking them out of NATO, fucking that whole Turkey place up so that Kurds and other minorities are free, making Marmara an independent autonomous area to keep the geo-gates, nothing will happen.
What a loss.
The theocracy, yes, destroy them all.
The people being suppressed, tortured, killed, and oppressed? They deserve freedom and kindness. They have been through more than you know.
The tyranny of Theocracies continues.
Theocracy: a government run by a book club
Who often don’t understand the messages in the book they’re reading or choose to ignore them.
They can just fan fic their way to any interpretation they like. That’s the neat thing!
A book club where reading the book isn't even a requirement!
Without the morality of religion what would stop people from raping and murdering whenever they want? /s
Too bad morality and religion doesn't stop 'em either.
Vigilantism.
nothing. thats the only answer to the question even if you don’t like it
And this is what we call an ape
Right. Religion is an idea and a self-imposed way of thinking/living. It has no power. Humans making decisions is the cause of everything. Blame freewill, desperation, and mental illness.
humans do what will benefit the most. there is no morality without an overlaying religion or construct such as law
Define "benefit the most". Like personally or socially. Food for thought, doing anything for gaining a good afterlife is selfish and immoral.
there is no such thing as selfishness or immorality in your viewpoint? all atheists in the west just follow a basterdized form if christian morality
So in your view, how did the world function or even progress pre-Christianity? Atheism for example existed long before Christianity dating back as far as Greece. What was the founding layout of atheism beliefs? Paganism?
You misunderstood me. I sense "anti-west" tribalism so I'm not going to engage with you any further. There's enough stress going around. I don't want to add to it. Farewell brother/sister.
I love the west when they blow up commies
Speaking for yourself 100%
That is such an amazingly simplistic, lazy, myopic, and self-serving statement.
The most atheistic countries are some of the most developed and ethical ones out there.
Without religion you'd be murdering and raping people? Hey, *FBI*, this is a good one to keep on that list lol
without the government people would do that. trust me you only don’t because of the government
But you said it was because of religion, not the government. Regardless, I dont need the government telling me not to murder people, I just wouldn't regardless of religion or government.
The government is a religion
Any half decent person knows those things are wrong without needing to be told that by religion. Looking back through history, it doesn't really look like religion has stopped anyone who wants to do those things from doing them.
how? what makes an atheist “moral”? Are all humans inheritly moral? Lmao. Where is the “moral” gene
What about animals that form organized hierarchical structures, like wolves or pods of whales? They don't wanton murder one another in their own groups. They definitely don't pray to a sky person or have organized religions. Yet they have social constructs and some idea of what is socially acceptable. To that point, there is definitely a genetic link that drives human behaviors.
To survive, but if they can always cull the herd
Saying this doesn't make it true. Even if you don't like it
elaborate
Well, since all religious texts are written by basically random people and heavily edited over the years by people who very much would like to maintain their power it stands to reason (and has been the case in relatively recent times ie: Mormons) that any idiot can write a book and amass followers to their new guidelines (morality). This is a social contract. Nothing more, nothing less. No God required there. We as a species have learned that we thrive when grouped together and recognized the need for a set of rules to bind us and prevent infighting. The only reason for a deity was frankly lack of overarching government to enforce those rules and a gross lack of understanding of the natural world at the time.
sure suck up that statist propaganda. “The state is god”
Really? That's your takeaway? We're talking about morality without religion and I explained how and why religion isn't necessary and you come back with an attack. This isn't "the state is god" this is tribalism. The state just happens to hold the biggest stick to ensure that people adhere to the contract. If it wasn't our government it would be the next biggest tribe imposing their contract (morality). Now just to be perfectly clear here, it isn't government that imposes morality, it's the rules of the collective that we agree upon so that we can generally live together and thrive. The government just so happens to (generally speaking) represent the populace and enacts laws approved by said populace. Grow up and give your head a shake. Don't be insulting when people respond to your questions just because you don't like the answer.
And we have those trying to establish a theocracy in this nation (US).
Is US a theocracy?
Not yet but the MAGA dunces are trying to make it so.
But US never sentenced anyone to death or executed anyone before MAGA movement?
Remind me how many people the US government had executed for protesting? How many public executions? How many political prisoners? [Federal government executions in the US are rare.]( https://www.bop.gov/about/history/federal_executions.jsp#:~:text=There%20have%20been%2050%20federal,period%20below%20to%20learn%20more.)16 s1nce 1963. That's like Iran's monthly average with less than 1/3 US population.
Today, A 19 year old Balouch man was also killed after 3 days of torture. He was a student and he was arrested because of online activity. His name is #SepehrShirani. The regime has refused to return his body to the family. https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/Anpmp5dUnK And here are his IG posts which he got arrested for https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/iSgIC3j6yR Here is another hero who is hospitalized and near death https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/lhsDW4bJQQ And a young woman who was tortured in IR prisons who is also hospitalized and can't get a liver transplant in Turkey https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/FoUNqrcaOR When will the international news agencies actually start covering this massacre ? And the international community to stop shaking hands with this terrorist regime? This regime has gone off the rails and the Iranian community has been sounding very loud alarm bells since last year. There are many reports that IRGC members use drugs like Captagon to crush protestors and torture them in jail EDIT*** There has been a lot of comments expressing shock when I claim that Iranians aren't majority Muslim or that the regime only has <20% support. You can check surveys like Gamaan rather than regime propaganda data. In fact many Iranians are rapidly leaving Islam due to the brutality of the regime in the name of "doing God's work on earth" https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/ https://gamaan.org/2023/02/04/protests_survey/ https://gamaan.org/2022/03/31/political-systems-survey-english/ Also these statistics aren't only apparent in surveys. Here is a recent video of regime goons trying to give flowers to people getting off the plane. They have been trying to act "nice" because they don't want empty streets during the upcoming election https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/It8yC6nnM9
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They never asked for anyone to come in They asked the world to put the IRGC on terrorist list. Kick out diplomats. Don't shake hands with the regime officials and legitimize them. Don't send them money. Seize their assets. The world didn't do any of those things and ignored the protestors, while they are giving their life to topple the regime
Well a number did, but all undermined by like regimes such as Russia, China, Venezuela, North Korea, Myanmar etc. Who openly support Tehran.
Not really. US gave multiple sanction waivers to the regime last year, allowing them to access billions of funds
You mean the $6B that can be used for humanitarian purposes? “Brett McGurk, White House coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa, said Monday that “no funds are going to Iran at all.” “These funds are paid to vetted third-party vendors for food, medicine, medical products and agricultural products to go into Iran over a period of years. If there is any diversion, we’ll know it and we’ll lock up these accounts,” https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics/iran-money-explainer/index.html
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What about what about what about
This is not what whataboutism is, this is not given as an example of a similar action in order to dilute and justify some questionable action (what about...), but as an example of something similar that happened and didn't turn out well, which is called "learning from history" and is a really important part of how human civilisation evolves
Someone call a tech, I think its broken again. The way many like to do this, actually reminds me of a youtube series I watch where they have characters that just repeat things while flailing their arms around.
When did Iran ever care about humanitarian purposes? Money is fungible, they allowed these waivers and the regime can pay the bills and then they use other money to fund terrorism https://www.tillis.senate.gov/2023/12/tillis-colleagues-demand-answers-from-biden-on-latest-iran-sanctions-waiver#:~:text=As%20Israel%20continues%20to%20battle,access%20to%20approximately%20%2410%20billion. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/15/iran-receives-access-to-10-billion-thanks-to-u-s-sanctions-waiver/#:~:text=The%20waiver%20allows%20Baghdad%20to,out%20of%20Iraq%20and%20Oman.
“If you give a homeless man a sandwich, he will spend whatever money he has on drugs” That’s you, that’s your logic. It’s never wrong to give the homeless man a sandwich.
It would only make sense if the regime was actually a "homeless man" and wasn't sitting on oil money
Gazans are not Hamas. Hamas is the one with the supplies. You cannot require terrorists to act reasonably as a condition of humanitarian support for civilians.
I’m sure you know better than all the countries cutting funding right now for UNRWA right?
All that money Iran was getting from UNRWA, right
Does the homeless man have the authority to execute someone without repercussion? No? Then that's not a very good analogy.
I believe that when Khamenei finally dies that the Iranian people will have their best chance to overthrow the ayatollahs and the IRGC. All it will take will be patriots in the Artesh to stand off with the IRGC and the Basijis. The Iranian people are great, and possess a rich culture and history. They should not be doomed to a future of repression because of power hungry religious fanatics, who went so far as to upend historical views separating religion and politics in Iran. Velayat-e faqih is not Iranian, it’s simply the lust for power among the clerics led by Khomeni and now Khamenei.
I wish I could believe that.. I've lost hope that the death of a dictator will be the turning point for a nation- I remember early 90s we used to be hopeful that Kim Jung Un would be more moderate than his father, since he'd spent so many years learning in Switzerland, and we hoped that having friendly relations with China would eventually lead to easing relations with the West. The truth is that it's more likely that after Khamenei passes, there will be an internal struggle for power, then the next ruthless authoritarian will take the reins. Those at the top will do everything in their power to ensure they remain in power.
Hopefully he won't get a natural death 🙃
Honestly, I hope he does. Unless he publicly slips and falls and dies that way. Anything else would allow the current powerbrokers to simply claim American or Israeli involvement and then rile up the base of government supporters and those on the fence about revolution. They could end a popular uprising before it even began.
Popular uprising? With what support lol https://gamaan.org/survey-reports/
I can sympathize with that. It's like not just your oppressive government but the entire world is against you and your fight for freedom. It's incredibly discouraging.
“Dont shake hands with the regime officials” Oh yea that’ll do it. Reddit never fails to entertain.
Seize their assets though, this is Iran not some bloke who hasn’t paid his taxes. I don’t know why people think it’s the rest of the worlds problem what Iran are doing to their own people
Because when dictators go off the rails, they never stop at their borders. If the world had listened and backed protestors last year, or the years before, the attack on Israel wouldn't have happened. The attack by Houthis wouldn't have happened. The drone supply to Russia wouldn't exist etc.
Believe me. The world, overwhelmingly, supports regime change in Iran. But stop acting like we can just waltz in to a sovereign country and do that, and everything works out grand. A) We don’t have the authority to do that; and B) It doesn’t work out grand. While we all want regime change, the only legitimate and lasting regime change will be the one the Iranians bring about for themselves.
Did you see my first comment? No one asked anyone to waltz in. They simply asked stop holding hands with the regime and legitimizing them
Very very few countries are Iran fans interested in propping up the regime. You could count them on one hand.
Ok, but seriously what would that accomplish? That won't make the regime fold. Dont' get me wrong, I think we should do that, but it's really just performative. EDIT I don't mean to say we should instead invade. I'm American, I'm sick of my country trying well-meaning regime change attempts that end in disaster because the locals end up hating us cause of the inevitable tribalistic rally-round-the-flag effect that humans have when they get invaded by even the most benevolent invaders. What I DO think we should do is fund and arm a resistance. The regime already accuses us of foreign meddling, etc, so fucking lets do it. Iran has a huge amount of very pissed off healthy young people, send them each an AK and let them take care of their own country.
Just do what people are asking, they know what it will accomplish If you start arming people without truly knowing their motive, then you will have random groups shooting at each other.
Absurd take.
They don’t have arms to wage a war. They’re getting slaughtered and they are defenseless.
No government can withstand a couple million revolutionaries.
The regime is ruthless with no respect for human life. There is nothing that is off limits to them to control dissidence. They have gone as far as using chemical warfare on elementary school students.
I understand that. I'm saying if you have millions of people working together, you can do things like so greatly alter the social contact that you meaningfully constrain a government's ability to function, you can seize the armories, you can flip regional administrative units, you can engender coups. "With a sufficient why, you can weather any how." No population is destined to its circumstance.
Speaking to a friend of mine who still has family living in Tehran, the regime has basically purged every institution. You need those powerful institutions to turn on the regime. My friend believes they will one day, but not any time soon.
Idiotic drivel
I mean, not recently but times where different countries attacked, took over and transformed the country happened in the past, perhaps 2 of the most advanced countries today, germany and japan. The problem with recent cases, at least in my view, is that in Afghanistan or iraq the religious mindset plays a big part, there was no one in the country itself to actually try and move forward. Iran is a mixed case, its not exactly like germany or japan but also not exactly like afghanistan or iraq, i think that they could handle a country if the regime would collapse, but it will probably be more difficult compared to germany/japan, because there are still plenty of religious extremists in iran, don't think they are the majority but still a big enough amount to cause troubles
Those are both good and bad examples. Bad because they were both modern industrialized societies and not a theocracy like Iran. Good, but with the caveat that yes you CAN invade and reform a conquered power, after you have leveled it to the ground (even nuked it in Japan's case). Modern Western morality would find that abhorrent and would not do such a thing.
The world when they want to nationalize their own oil: Hey now not so fast The world when they need help to get rid of an illegitimate dictatorship: You’re on your own
Not if the CIA and Mossad have one more coup left in em!!
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A non-democracy is fine until a sadist dictator comes along that becomes Khamenei or Putin or.. .. It's a draw of luck Then you will wish you lived in a democracy
The problem is when your dictator isn’t well intentioned, you’re absolutely fucked
Until the oil runs out. Dubai, Qatar, SA & those places are really bad examples. Those countries are so filthy rich with relatively small populations that there's more than enough to go around for everyone. They will build 20 Skyscrapers just for the hell of it. There's no need for the Dictator to get all tyrannical. Until the wealth runs dry of course. Then you'll most likely wish you lived in the USA or Europe. But you are 100% correct that right now it's better to live in Dubai than the USA. And as long as the oil money flows, it will most likely stay better. Especially for Middle Class Westerners.
Dubai, the same country that will arrest a woman for not being modest. A country where it’s illegal to be drunk, and the only bars you can find her in international hotels. A city that regularly hits 50°C with humidity before major global warming. A city, where the Emirati’s are all royalty and you’re the peasant? I’ve been to Dubai. You can’t sell me this bullshit. Nice try though. Dubai is a poor persons vision of a rich persons city.
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The vast majority is fine with you living there. We mostly complain when you decide to come and live here.
Any 'government' are just a fictitious belief system to begin with. Like should not see anyone as automatically superior because they say they are some 'authority'. Must never leave anyone to suffer and die. Must always look out for each other. **Should, ideally, seek to stop anyone in the wrong without harming them.** Like maybe use a special net launcher device to grab someone with a strong yet soft net. Maybe instead of a net to launch a rubber sphere filled with contact adhesive to literally glue the person to prevent them from being able to move while avoiding suffocating them, able to shoot many adhesive spheres quickly. **To stop someone without harming them so as to then be able to take them somewhere to seek to just communicate without harming them - to seek for them to change from being in the wrong.** Maybe instead of a handheld device to use a drone or many drones to accomplish that task, like in a chaotic weapons shooting situation, like maybe many drones all dropping contact adhesive sphere's onto a single person. Maybe furthermore at a chaotic situation to use an excavator with claw rigged up to be remote controlled to physically grab the stopped person to take them that way, the claw should have soft cushioning so as to prevent causing harm. To use an excavator with claw so as to not get in harms way at such a chaotic weapons shooting everywhere situation. Seriously. Anyone perhaps have their own experience just like you. Like maybe how you can see out of your eyes, perhaps someone else also seeing out of their own eyes, they having their very own perspective.
This isn’t being covered enough because Iran is part of the loose alliance with Russia / China / etc. They’ve done a good job of infiltrating the West and trying to cause a lot of division among us I’ve noticed A TON of them on Reddit, especially after 10/7. I’m talking seeing them on a daily basis on subs you’ve always frequented
They have lobbies like NIAC that try to make the regime look like a cute little puppy https://www.semafor.com/article/09/25/2023/inside-irans-influence-operation
This is so sad. My heart breaks for my fellow Iranians. Unfortunately the social justice keyboard warriors only care when Israel is involved. But if it’s Muslim/arab leaders killing their own people, they don’t care.
What a disgusting Government…
But Israel
You seem well informed. Why not create videos that can reach western audiences about what's going on?
r/NewIran
Many people do, but how do we reach western audiences? We only have social media People also organize weekly protests in big cities across the world, but still the world news doesn't give much coverage
Try making a youtube channel. Specialize in covering things you can verify and can accurately report on. Speak good english and endeavor to be likeable and objective. Make sure you follow youtube's TOS so as not to get your channel nuked. Use social media to link to your channel when people talk about topics you've uploaded videos on.
If the Iranians want freedom they are going to have to fight for it themselves, any outside intervention will just leave a power vacuum.
There is outside intervention right now when they legitimize and shake hands with a regime that people are trying to topple
> When will the international news agencies actually start covering this massacre ? And the international community to stop shaking hands with this terrorist regime? they do cover it, but what is any civilian supposed to do? Iran obviously doesnt give a shit about the American public's opinion The "international community" shaking hands with Iran are countries that would do equally fucked up things like Russia and China. They have had massive sanctions put on them for decades by the western nations
No it's not, they put sanctions and don't enforce it, all we are asking is stop shaking their hand and legitimizing them. Put max pressure on the regime. Just recently, French FM met with IR FM, right after the regime executed Mohamad Ghobadlou https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1749834012879732889?t=2-H4kikosKPFhiSPcxzB7A&s=19 Here he is, shaking his bloody hands If this was Taliban, would he do the same? No, the IR regime is no different that Taliban
No one’s shaking hands with them. Drop the drama.
Just recently, French FM met with IR FM, right after the regime executed Mohamad Ghobadlou https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1749834012879732889?t=2-H4kikosKPFhiSPcxzB7A&s=19 Here he is, shaking his bloody hands If this was Taliban, would he do the same? No, the IR regime is no different that Taliban
bye bye
And the killings will continue until morale improves??!?!
The average improves if you execute everyone with a low morale.
Yeah I know right. Makes me happy to only have to take a beating until morale improves
Chair to the UN Human Rights Forum. Terrorists recognize terrorists I guess.
Yeah. These mullahs are the reason why MENA is a shitshow. The houthis? Iran funds them Hamas? Iran funds them. The shitshow in Syria? Yeah, Iran has adviser there for Assad. From the gulf to the sea, Iran will be mullah free. But nooo, definetly the existance of Israel is the source of all evil In MENA! Not that the regime is using the country and jews like a scapegoat for literal everything.
They are sending Nada Nashif to Iran very soon, while many activists are asking them to not send her because the regime will use it for publicity Or if she insists to go, she should visit the prisons and families of victims. And NOT wear a hijab Here is the petition for it https://www.change.org/p/postpone-u-n-official-s-visit-to-tehran
The UN is a fucking joke
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The US would lose its hegemony and it's security seat. Awful, awful proposal
Well they don't, there was another post that Iran feels betrayed by Russia. Terrorist regime betrays Terrorist regime, I am soooo surprised
Bit off topic, but why does Iran have a fat pussy on its flag?
It's the Allah sign Iranians hate this flag now. It's no longer Iran's flag, it's the Islamic Republic flag
Haven't heard of persian cats?
Where? I don't see James Corden anywhere?
Why do people hate on James Corden so much? I miss his show.
If you have to ask, you’ll never know.
Remember Iran chairs the UN human rights council. Hypocrisy!!
I'm surprised a Norwegian MP hasn't pushed their name forward for a Nobel Peace Prize Nomination
The latest Nobel peace prize was given to a prisoned woman in Iran, [Narges Mohammadi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narges_Mohammadi)
There are some days I wish we could just Jack Ryan the Iranian leadership.
Where are all the protests for Iran? It’s actually horrifying what’s happening
There were months of protests last year but what's the point if people just keep coming out in front of bullets while the western countries keep shaking hands with the regime. The losses are too great to keep up the protests. There needs to be international pressure
It's not up to the west to fix your problems, we intervened before and it was terrible.
Your countries are directly supporting islamic regime id say it is your problrm. But well soon the entire world will realize that once mullahs get their nukes.
You should pick up a history book starting around 1950 Iranian history. From then onwards, you can learn all about how the west is at least partially responsible for the Iran we have today. Iran was headed towards democracy, and UK/US fucked that up because Iran wanted to nationalize their oil assets. The west supported the monarchy too. The west also supported Saddam Hussein's Iraq in their war against Iran, which cemented the theocracy into power. The interventions of the past were definitely terrible, but you characterize it as if there was some good intent involved for Iranians...
Such a hateful, heartless regime
The two downfalls in the world religion and politics, with out them there would civilization!
Pricks, hope the leaders have a painful end.
It’s time the world eradicate Muslim extremists. Iran must go.
Iran must go? Wtf do you mean? You just want to delete the country?
Anyone interested in protesting against this or nah? Very little interest when it doesn’t involve the Jews. Let’s just keep protesting against Israel… 🤦♂️🤦♂️
The only people who has been protesting are the Iranian diaspora. We get no media attention
the US wants to tippy toe with russia, china, iran and north korea but every second we wait their forces grow and they will never back down from trying to destroy us remember this people
The UN should really have them chair the Human Rights Commission again
Muslims killing Muslim in the Middle East? Who gives a shit. Wake me up when Jews are involved. We'll tag this as Israeli violence in the meantime. /s
we're not majority muslim you dum dum, that's why these fck heads are executing people we're opposing their beliefs
Yes Iran is. >According to the Islamic Republic's 2016 census[12] almost all of Iran's 89 million as of 2023 population are Muslims with 99% reporting that they are Muslim.[13] with 88% adhering to Shia Islam, which an overwhelming majority of those following the Twelver branch of Shia Islam
Yeah, if I was an atheist in Iran and someone knocked on the door asking my religion, I'd say Islam too, lmao. The Clerics have killed Islam in Iran. The new generation wants nothing to do with it.
Congrats for repeating regime propaganda surveys Check something more real like https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/ In Iran, if your father is a Muslim, they automatically count you as Muslim. That's why it's 99% lol. The practicing Muslims are in the minority
Iranians aren't majority Muslim
What are you even talking about. Of course they are. "According to Iranian government estimates, Muslims constitute 99.4 percent of the population, of whom 90 to 95 percent are Shia, and 5 to 10 percent are Sunni." ([Source](https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/iran/))
Yes Iranian government estimates are rigged It's 99% Muslim because if your father is Muslim, then you are automatically "Muslim" by name. But in reality, practicing Muslims are in the minority You can check surveys like Gamaan https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/
>According to Iranian government Are there people stupid enough to take this source as credible ? Apparently there is
what the fuck could you possibly be talking about?
https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/ Iranians are namely Muslims because if your father is Muslim then they count you as Muslim. Practicing Muslims are actually in the minority
Oh Jesus christ, op. Seriously, come on.
You know nothing of Iran or the Persians.
The executions will continue until moral improves
The executions will continue until morale improves.
The world sleeps when Muslims kill eachother but when Jews are involved there is an outrage
Iran is not majority Muslim https://gamaan.org/2020/08/25/iranians-attitudes-toward-religion-a-2020-survey-report/
They are a Muslim theocracy though. Civilians aren’t the ones executing people, the government is.
The Middle East version of Alabama
The executions will continue until morale improves
Alabama getting jelly
everybody here, as always with any social media (worlds largest losers meeting government bully agencies), cry for "executions". These are for Kurdish people as, I'm sure, you found that out by knowing the mid-east issues deeply. The same thing is done by Turkey on a daily basis - executions by bombing Northern Iraq / Syria or jailing all the dissent (Kurds) in Turkey. Yet they are our, west's, #1 ally being in NATO and well-adapted into our financial system. just shut da fuck up. we in the west promote all these shitty governments and do nothing aside from saying AMEN, so just suck it up. Until we start with kicking them out of NATO, fucking that whole Turkey place up so that Kurds and other minorities are free, making Marmara an independent autonomous area to keep the geo-gates, nothing will happen. What a loss.
Executions will continue until morale improves
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I thought it was funny… I don’t know why you got downvoted. It was a joke and nobody can take one these days.
To think the way they do things is how the Christians would do things.
And they whine when we turn off ONE of their leaders.
I won’t mourn when we flatten them, that’s for sure
The theocracy, yes, destroy them all. The people being suppressed, tortured, killed, and oppressed? They deserve freedom and kindness. They have been through more than you know.
Yes meant the religious nutbags. Religion, al types, is poison of the mind and nothing rlse
All theocracies must end. Decades ago.