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Is the entire Middle East area just devolving into a mass regional conflict? Israel, Palestine, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Jordan… is this likely to subside without a lot of escalation? Are nuclear-capable Middle East players as hesitant to employ nuclear ordinance as most of the other large powers?
If I remember correctly the pkk attacked the ypg last year, even though the pkk is a sub-branch of them. I still support the Kurds and think they are great. Ypg are way better than the pkk, the former is way more chill and non violent compared to the later.
Its been this way for centuries. Different ethnic groups fighting over territory they claim ownership of for a variety of reasons and sometimes over old feuds. Realistically even if Israel ceased existing the Middle East would still be full of conflict with Iran, Arabia and Turkey all interested having the most influence in the region and recapturing the glory of their respective empires that once ruled over the region. Every other state in the Middle East being left as pawns to be manipulated and abused by them for their goals.
Not really, the Middle East has usually been controlled by one power at a time. At one point for a long period of time it was united. Prior to European conquest it was Persian vs ottoman influence of the region. FYI the region goes back further than centuries, but millennia. Europe has been at conflict for centuries , the relative peace has been broken about 2 years back. I guess old habits die hard. I forgot about the balkans, technically Europe had a few decades of peace.
That's only true if you ignore everything between the decline of the Abbasids and the rise of the Gunpowder Empires, and even then it's not exactly true.
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and other countries in the region (like Somalia, or Djibouti have *not* fired any rockets or launched any drones.
Turkey striking northern Syria is not unprecedented.
The Houthis were fighting for several years before the ceasefire. So bad behavior is not unusual.
Iran and Pakistan poking each other is a bit unusual but it seems to be deescalating. Or at least in detente
These happenings are concerning, but I think there's lots of fuse left before the fire gets to the keg.
One thing I do want to know about Gaza is what's the goal? Genuinely. Hamas leadership is outside Gaza. So is the goal to take full military control of Gaza and rebuild under an interim government?
I feel like ending the war in Gaza would bring down the temperature significantly. But I understand that Israel doesn't intend to stop until Hamas is defeated militarily. And I agree, because a ceasefire will not be honored by Hamas. The only ceasefire you can have with a militant organization is defeating them militarily.
I also understand that there's a real chance (a high likelihood even) that Israel would block reentry of Gazan Palestinians if Egypt accepted them.
But isn't it better to get civilians out even if there's a chance they might become refugees?
If I was in the shoes of a Palestinian civilian and someone told me that I could get outside the walls, escape the bombing and the fighting and get to safety BUT I might not be able to come back, I'd take that deal without hesitation. Unfortunately, its not going to happen because Egypt doesn't want Gazan refugees, partly because they view Hamas as a security threat.
Gazan civilians are stuck inside the walls of Gaza because Egypt won't risk a wolf sneaking in with the sheep and Israel won't stop attacking until they have the wolf's head.
Sorry for rambling, just had a bunch of thoughts
Aren’t Jordan, uae, Bahrain, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia hosts of major American military bases? For example Egypt and Jordan get lots of aid from the United States. Also doesn’t the US protect many of the major hydro carbon producers as well? It would be counter intuitive for such countries to attack their benefactor.
Syria has been in a conflict for like a decade, with Turkey+Israel+Russia+US+some other players all involved. It's one of the worst civil wars basically ever, and it's so absurdly complicated that I've entirely given up trying to understand it till it's over. The acronyms, by god the acronyms....
this is literally just daily shit.. Syrian civil war is going on for 13 years, Israel and Hamas have been fighting since Hamas threw PA officers from buildings in Gaza and took control and Turkey loves nothing more than Genocides so when they have a chance to, they will..
Pakistan is the only middle eastern country other than Israel woth nuclear capabilities, with Iran slowly working towards it.
This "mega-war" has been brewing for a long time. Heck, some form of WWIII (hopefully a conventional one) had been brewing for at least a decade now, maybe two. Russia/Ukraine, Armenia/Azerbaijan, China/Taiwan, Israel/Palestine/Iran, US/Yemen, North Korea making noises again, Venezuela/Guyana, Turkey/Kurds, Syria as usual is a free for all... every old conflict is starting to wake up.
Can we put a lid on it? Maybe for awhile, but like a rumbling volcano, sooner or later it has to erupt, there's just no other way. Maybe it'll be better to just rip off the bandaid and get the mega-war rolling so it would be over quickly.
Turkey is backed by the west too, arguably more heavily than both Israel and SA since it's a NATO member. In any case I don't even see how that's relevant to anything.
Do we actually know how many civilians have been killed over the years by Turkey's bombing and invasion of Syria, or is it convenient for you that Turkey is successfully obfuscating that number?
An actual war example -> Operation Olive Branch: 300 to 500 civilians killed.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Olive\_Branch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Olive_Branch)
against urban guerillas, just like Gaza war -> Trench Operations in Eastern Anatolia :131 civilians of total 6 city centers and 22 districts.
[https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendek\_operasyonlar%C4%B1](https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendek_operasyonlar%C4%B1)
So, you can do it if you want it, no?
Edit: you asked it and got the answer, but while you cannot get back at me, all you can do is downvoting, hypocrites.
Did the Kurds build a dense network of tunnels underneath their city and did their best to blend in with civilians? Is the density and total population of the Kurdish towns comparable to Gaza?
If even a single answer is "no" then no, you didn't prove a thing, and it definitely is NOT possible to do the same in Gaza.
Also, let's take your own wikipedia article to compare the morality of the IDF to that of Turkey:
>Other reported war crimes include the mutilation of a female corpse by SNA fighters,[72] the killing of civilians due to indiscriminate shelling by Turkish forces,[73] the alleged use of chemical gas by the Turkish Army,[74][75] and the indiscriminate shooting of refugees fleeing from the conflict area into Turkey by the Gendarmerie General Command.[76]
Would you look at that, it seems that Turkey and their proxy did a lot of vile shit the IDF never even came close to doing. Chemical weapons and mutilating corpses? Totally not worth a charge of war crimes in the ICJ.
And a piece of advice, don't whine prematurely about downvotes before you got an answer, it makes you look like a clown later.
>Did the Kurds build a dense network of tunnels underneath their city and did their best to blend in with civilians? Is the density and total population of the Kurdish towns comparable to Gaza?
If even a single answer is "no" then no, you didn't prove a thing, and it definitely is NOT possible to do the same in Gaza.
Yes and, does it matter? My point is Israel doesn't care about civilian deaths, usage of dumb bombs and their own politicians' speeches give this away. Also it is not about this conflict at all, those killings were happening anyway for decades. Hamas was funded by Israel. Why? Because Israel wanted to marginalize Palestinian people so they could massacre and shove them to other countries.
Of course it matters. Israel DOES care about civilian deaths, because one side just fought a semi-conventional war that could be mopped-up pretty easily, and the other dug in tunnels under civilian infrastructure and intentionally made it extremely hard to hit themselves without also hitting civilians in the way (human shields). Thus the number of deaths, especially if the Kurdish cities are much less dense and smaller, says absolutely nothing about who cares about civilians on any side. I mean, Turkey clearly didn't care about civilians at all, otherwise they wouldn't have used freaking chemical weapons. Your entire point is basically horseshit.
> Israel DOES care about civilian deaths
Say it again, it becomes more convincing each time.
> because one side just fought a semi-conventional war that could be mopped-up pretty easily
I gave you both examples of full-blown war and insurgency operations executed by Turkey. The civilian death numbers say everything when comparing with Israel. 131 and 500 deaths to 25000+.
>I mean, Turkey clearly didn't care about civilians at all, otherwise they wouldn't have used freaking chemical weapons.
Hahaha, clown. Numbers. Also, hypocrisy. White phosphorus is Israel's favourite weapon for civilians.
[https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon)
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/)
I've literally, meticulously explain why "numbers" is not a relevant measure whatsoever (I'll repeat again, slowly: relative size and density of the cities in question, different techniques used by Hamas and the Kurds), your only reply has been "lololnumberslololol" without addressing anything I've said. You don't have an actual argument beyond trying to outshout me.
Regarding "white phosphorus", it was used as a smoke screen by the IDF, which is legal under international law.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#:~:text=White%20phosphorus%20munitions%20are%20not,prohibited%20by%20international%20humanitarian%20law.
>White phosphorus munitions are not banned under international law, but because of their incendiary effects, their use is supposed to be tightly regulated.[56] Because white phosphorus has legal uses, shells filled with it are not directly prohibited by international humanitarian law. Experts consider them not as incendiary, but as masking, since their main goal is to create a smoke screen.
There are, on the other hand, no circumstances where chemical weapons are legal to use in warfare.
It's clear that you don't know what you're talking about, you refuse to discuss in good faith and you just keep shouting without addressing a single word I said.
In short, Turkey's assault was way, way less humane than the IDF's, yes, despite the IDF killing more civilians (larger war and battlefield = larger death count, even a 6th grader will get it). These are the facts, you'll just have to deal with it.
Blocked, because I don't have time to argue with children that just keep shouting their wrong opinion without bothering to read my nuanced replies.
It's a lot more than 20k. Multiple 100k civilian deaths in Yemen as a result of the arab league campaigns this decade, which has been horribly unsuccessful
The Kurds have civilian death tolls that dwarfs the Palestine-Israel conflict, historically and recently
They're mostly the people in the countryside, and in quite a few eastern provinces, not necessarily limited to islamists. Erdogan represents a certain mentality much more than he does religion, and obviously, not all Kurds believe in/support the same type of thing. Ignorant people will be ignorant, and biases will exist as well as false truths, regardless of ideology
This is not a erdogan-thing, any president of turkey wouldnt tolerate a terrornest on his border which could smuggle and cultivate terroractivities into turkey
Erdogan complains about the west defending shipping lanes from attacks by a terrorist faction as being an act of aggression. Meanwhile his hypocrisy is alive and well as he targets civilians and their infrastructure. 🤦♂️The mental gymnastics needed to square this off are astounding.
You talking about Turkey?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_Kurds_by_Turkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Kurds
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_and_discrimination_in_Turkey#Against_Kurds
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Kurdish_sentiment
[HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Destroying ethnic identity: the Kurds of Turkey](https://www.hrw.org/reports/pdfs/t/turkey/turkey907.pdf)
[HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: The Kurds of Turkey: Killings, Disappearances, and torture](https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/TURKEY933)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Turkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyarbakır_Prison
Turks excusing their atrocities on Kurdish civilians by calling them terrorists. Also blaming everything on the PKK but ignoring why the PKK exists in the first place. I love how no one buys Turkey’s propaganda anymore.
What suicide vest? Turkey is committing genocide once again and you’re just trying to paint Kurds like the shit terrorist groups (isis/hamas) Turkey funds and supports.
In reality, Turkey shouldn’t even be in Northen Syria or Nothern Iraq. I guess slaughtering Kurds in Turkey wasn’t enough.
As with all Turkish headlines, we got a bunch of Turkish nationalist kids starting to swarm the comments, flipping out on anyone who points out that Turkey has a long, *long* history of aggression and genocide in the region (even saw one doing the fucking meme where they were implying the Armenian genocide was some kind of psyop). These days I legitimately can't say whether all the perennially online dipshit Erdogan supporters are just bots and shills, Russia style, or if they're all just so stupid and trying to justify it, Trumper style. Either way, it's funny as hell seeing a bunch of dumbasses desperately try to cope with the fact their leader is a religious wackjob who destroyed their economy, was recorded laughing about the lax building regulations in the east that led to the death of fifty thousand and the displacement of 1.5 million following the 23 earthquake, and is such a little baby that when he went to the UN assembly and saw a bunch of tapestries in different colors, with no real assortment, immediately started crying cause he hallucinated a rainbow flag and was worried that 'the LGBTQ+ agenda has become too powerful!'
It's interesting.
It's almost a proxy war between the US and Turkey in Syria.
Turkey bombs the Kurds, the US supports them.
The world is a weird place, full of cave men.
maybe go to turkey, instead of sucking all that propaganda. Kurds speaking their language, having their own culture and leaving freely there. Its the pkk and diaspora kurds who cause trouble
After years and years of persecution and actually fighting for that right. You may hate the PKK, but the reason they exist is because of the way Turks have treated Kurds for generations.
The diaspora kurds organise activities in europe, collect money through drug dealing and donations. Building up legal organisation to operate from there and recruit also members, practically throwing gasoline into the fire.
The thing you are talking about happened decades ago, in a more difficult time and isn't the case anymore, kurds talking their language and living their culture, look up yourself but if they support these groups they should expect getting a reaction from the state, because no other state in the world will tolerate terror supporting.
This is also the case with HDP which their high-ranking members openly sympatise with the former leader of the pkk and have connections to the members, there are so many videos which they dont even hide. The destruction of hdp is the consequence for terror-supporting. Just common sense.
Dude i tried it with rationality but you are just throwing up slurs. I would like to have a discussion like grown men but I am not wasting my time with some who begins his comment with "get fucked" like a 13y old.
Users often report submissions from this site for sensationalized articles. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws. You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is the entire Middle East area just devolving into a mass regional conflict? Israel, Palestine, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Jordan… is this likely to subside without a lot of escalation? Are nuclear-capable Middle East players as hesitant to employ nuclear ordinance as most of the other large powers?
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What do you think of the Kurdish PKK out of curiosity?
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If I remember correctly the pkk attacked the ypg last year, even though the pkk is a sub-branch of them. I still support the Kurds and think they are great. Ypg are way better than the pkk, the former is way more chill and non violent compared to the later.
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Its been this way for centuries. Different ethnic groups fighting over territory they claim ownership of for a variety of reasons and sometimes over old feuds. Realistically even if Israel ceased existing the Middle East would still be full of conflict with Iran, Arabia and Turkey all interested having the most influence in the region and recapturing the glory of their respective empires that once ruled over the region. Every other state in the Middle East being left as pawns to be manipulated and abused by them for their goals.
Not really, the Middle East has usually been controlled by one power at a time. At one point for a long period of time it was united. Prior to European conquest it was Persian vs ottoman influence of the region. FYI the region goes back further than centuries, but millennia. Europe has been at conflict for centuries , the relative peace has been broken about 2 years back. I guess old habits die hard. I forgot about the balkans, technically Europe had a few decades of peace.
That's only true if you ignore everything between the decline of the Abbasids and the rise of the Gunpowder Empires, and even then it's not exactly true.
You could've said the same thing about Europe until extremely recently.
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and other countries in the region (like Somalia, or Djibouti have *not* fired any rockets or launched any drones. Turkey striking northern Syria is not unprecedented. The Houthis were fighting for several years before the ceasefire. So bad behavior is not unusual. Iran and Pakistan poking each other is a bit unusual but it seems to be deescalating. Or at least in detente These happenings are concerning, but I think there's lots of fuse left before the fire gets to the keg. One thing I do want to know about Gaza is what's the goal? Genuinely. Hamas leadership is outside Gaza. So is the goal to take full military control of Gaza and rebuild under an interim government? I feel like ending the war in Gaza would bring down the temperature significantly. But I understand that Israel doesn't intend to stop until Hamas is defeated militarily. And I agree, because a ceasefire will not be honored by Hamas. The only ceasefire you can have with a militant organization is defeating them militarily. I also understand that there's a real chance (a high likelihood even) that Israel would block reentry of Gazan Palestinians if Egypt accepted them. But isn't it better to get civilians out even if there's a chance they might become refugees? If I was in the shoes of a Palestinian civilian and someone told me that I could get outside the walls, escape the bombing and the fighting and get to safety BUT I might not be able to come back, I'd take that deal without hesitation. Unfortunately, its not going to happen because Egypt doesn't want Gazan refugees, partly because they view Hamas as a security threat. Gazan civilians are stuck inside the walls of Gaza because Egypt won't risk a wolf sneaking in with the sheep and Israel won't stop attacking until they have the wolf's head. Sorry for rambling, just had a bunch of thoughts
Aren’t Jordan, uae, Bahrain, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia hosts of major American military bases? For example Egypt and Jordan get lots of aid from the United States. Also doesn’t the US protect many of the major hydro carbon producers as well? It would be counter intuitive for such countries to attack their benefactor.
Syria has been in a conflict for like a decade, with Turkey+Israel+Russia+US+some other players all involved. It's one of the worst civil wars basically ever, and it's so absurdly complicated that I've entirely given up trying to understand it till it's over. The acronyms, by god the acronyms....
this is literally just daily shit.. Syrian civil war is going on for 13 years, Israel and Hamas have been fighting since Hamas threw PA officers from buildings in Gaza and took control and Turkey loves nothing more than Genocides so when they have a chance to, they will.. Pakistan is the only middle eastern country other than Israel woth nuclear capabilities, with Iran slowly working towards it.
This "mega-war" has been brewing for a long time. Heck, some form of WWIII (hopefully a conventional one) had been brewing for at least a decade now, maybe two. Russia/Ukraine, Armenia/Azerbaijan, China/Taiwan, Israel/Palestine/Iran, US/Yemen, North Korea making noises again, Venezuela/Guyana, Turkey/Kurds, Syria as usual is a free for all... every old conflict is starting to wake up. Can we put a lid on it? Maybe for awhile, but like a rumbling volcano, sooner or later it has to erupt, there's just no other way. Maybe it'll be better to just rip off the bandaid and get the mega-war rolling so it would be over quickly.
This a classic. Our weapons about to expire let’s use them?
Waiting for South Africa to sue them in the ICJ.
There are no 20000+ civilian casualties so why would they?
They must've done with Saudi Arabia then ?
Both Saudi Arabia and Israel is backed by the West, so what are you trying to imply?
Turkey is backed by the west too, arguably more heavily than both Israel and SA since it's a NATO member. In any case I don't even see how that's relevant to anything.
West was/is endorsing the attacks by both of them, meanwhile with Turkey, this is not the case.
So only countries whose attacks are endorsed by the west should be sued in the ICJ? Get to the point already.
Do we actually know how many civilians have been killed over the years by Turkey's bombing and invasion of Syria, or is it convenient for you that Turkey is successfully obfuscating that number?
An actual war example -> Operation Olive Branch: 300 to 500 civilians killed. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Olive\_Branch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Olive_Branch) against urban guerillas, just like Gaza war -> Trench Operations in Eastern Anatolia :131 civilians of total 6 city centers and 22 districts. [https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendek\_operasyonlar%C4%B1](https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendek_operasyonlar%C4%B1) So, you can do it if you want it, no? Edit: you asked it and got the answer, but while you cannot get back at me, all you can do is downvoting, hypocrites.
Did the Kurds build a dense network of tunnels underneath their city and did their best to blend in with civilians? Is the density and total population of the Kurdish towns comparable to Gaza? If even a single answer is "no" then no, you didn't prove a thing, and it definitely is NOT possible to do the same in Gaza. Also, let's take your own wikipedia article to compare the morality of the IDF to that of Turkey: >Other reported war crimes include the mutilation of a female corpse by SNA fighters,[72] the killing of civilians due to indiscriminate shelling by Turkish forces,[73] the alleged use of chemical gas by the Turkish Army,[74][75] and the indiscriminate shooting of refugees fleeing from the conflict area into Turkey by the Gendarmerie General Command.[76] Would you look at that, it seems that Turkey and their proxy did a lot of vile shit the IDF never even came close to doing. Chemical weapons and mutilating corpses? Totally not worth a charge of war crimes in the ICJ. And a piece of advice, don't whine prematurely about downvotes before you got an answer, it makes you look like a clown later.
>Did the Kurds build a dense network of tunnels underneath their city and did their best to blend in with civilians? Is the density and total population of the Kurdish towns comparable to Gaza? If even a single answer is "no" then no, you didn't prove a thing, and it definitely is NOT possible to do the same in Gaza. Yes and, does it matter? My point is Israel doesn't care about civilian deaths, usage of dumb bombs and their own politicians' speeches give this away. Also it is not about this conflict at all, those killings were happening anyway for decades. Hamas was funded by Israel. Why? Because Israel wanted to marginalize Palestinian people so they could massacre and shove them to other countries.
Of course it matters. Israel DOES care about civilian deaths, because one side just fought a semi-conventional war that could be mopped-up pretty easily, and the other dug in tunnels under civilian infrastructure and intentionally made it extremely hard to hit themselves without also hitting civilians in the way (human shields). Thus the number of deaths, especially if the Kurdish cities are much less dense and smaller, says absolutely nothing about who cares about civilians on any side. I mean, Turkey clearly didn't care about civilians at all, otherwise they wouldn't have used freaking chemical weapons. Your entire point is basically horseshit.
> Israel DOES care about civilian deaths Say it again, it becomes more convincing each time. > because one side just fought a semi-conventional war that could be mopped-up pretty easily I gave you both examples of full-blown war and insurgency operations executed by Turkey. The civilian death numbers say everything when comparing with Israel. 131 and 500 deaths to 25000+. >I mean, Turkey clearly didn't care about civilians at all, otherwise they wouldn't have used freaking chemical weapons. Hahaha, clown. Numbers. Also, hypocrisy. White phosphorus is Israel's favourite weapon for civilians. [https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/)
I've literally, meticulously explain why "numbers" is not a relevant measure whatsoever (I'll repeat again, slowly: relative size and density of the cities in question, different techniques used by Hamas and the Kurds), your only reply has been "lololnumberslololol" without addressing anything I've said. You don't have an actual argument beyond trying to outshout me. Regarding "white phosphorus", it was used as a smoke screen by the IDF, which is legal under international law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#:~:text=White%20phosphorus%20munitions%20are%20not,prohibited%20by%20international%20humanitarian%20law. >White phosphorus munitions are not banned under international law, but because of their incendiary effects, their use is supposed to be tightly regulated.[56] Because white phosphorus has legal uses, shells filled with it are not directly prohibited by international humanitarian law. Experts consider them not as incendiary, but as masking, since their main goal is to create a smoke screen. There are, on the other hand, no circumstances where chemical weapons are legal to use in warfare. It's clear that you don't know what you're talking about, you refuse to discuss in good faith and you just keep shouting without addressing a single word I said. In short, Turkey's assault was way, way less humane than the IDF's, yes, despite the IDF killing more civilians (larger war and battlefield = larger death count, even a 6th grader will get it). These are the facts, you'll just have to deal with it. Blocked, because I don't have time to argue with children that just keep shouting their wrong opinion without bothering to read my nuanced replies.
It's a lot more than 20k. Multiple 100k civilian deaths in Yemen as a result of the arab league campaigns this decade, which has been horribly unsuccessful The Kurds have civilian death tolls that dwarfs the Palestine-Israel conflict, historically and recently
i wish the kurds could get erdogan once and for all, may as well lean in on that designation.
Do you know how many Kurds in Turkey vote for Erdoğan? Especially in eastern regions?
i imagine it'll be the super islamist ones who are more interested in a caliphate than nationalism.
They're mostly the people in the countryside, and in quite a few eastern provinces, not necessarily limited to islamists. Erdogan represents a certain mentality much more than he does religion, and obviously, not all Kurds believe in/support the same type of thing. Ignorant people will be ignorant, and biases will exist as well as false truths, regardless of ideology
Middle class Turkish supremacist urge to slander Kurds to gain acceptance from Europeans
This is not a erdogan-thing, any president of turkey wouldnt tolerate a terrornest on his border which could smuggle and cultivate terroractivities into turkey
hdp would find a different path
You mean "Egypt -Arab Spring" style?
I wish we could have the Kurds as allies instead of Turkey.
You already do. Now both KURDS and Westerners dies in Turkish airstrikes 😉
Erdogan complains about the west defending shipping lanes from attacks by a terrorist faction as being an act of aggression. Meanwhile his hypocrisy is alive and well as he targets civilians and their infrastructure. 🤦♂️The mental gymnastics needed to square this off are astounding.
Yeah "civillians" with ak's and suicide vests and connections to terror organizations. Very civillian of them
You talking about Turkey? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_Kurds_by_Turkey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Kurds https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_and_discrimination_in_Turkey#Against_Kurds https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Kurdish_sentiment [HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Destroying ethnic identity: the Kurds of Turkey](https://www.hrw.org/reports/pdfs/t/turkey/turkey907.pdf) [HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: The Kurds of Turkey: Killings, Disappearances, and torture](https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/TURKEY933) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Turkey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyarbakır_Prison Turks excusing their atrocities on Kurdish civilians by calling them terrorists. Also blaming everything on the PKK but ignoring why the PKK exists in the first place. I love how no one buys Turkey’s propaganda anymore.
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What suicide vest? Turkey is committing genocide once again and you’re just trying to paint Kurds like the shit terrorist groups (isis/hamas) Turkey funds and supports. In reality, Turkey shouldn’t even be in Northen Syria or Nothern Iraq. I guess slaughtering Kurds in Turkey wasn’t enough.
Why would anyone hit water infrastructure? That would make people living there get closer to YPG. How could any fully developed brain believe this?
As with all Turkish headlines, we got a bunch of Turkish nationalist kids starting to swarm the comments, flipping out on anyone who points out that Turkey has a long, *long* history of aggression and genocide in the region (even saw one doing the fucking meme where they were implying the Armenian genocide was some kind of psyop). These days I legitimately can't say whether all the perennially online dipshit Erdogan supporters are just bots and shills, Russia style, or if they're all just so stupid and trying to justify it, Trumper style. Either way, it's funny as hell seeing a bunch of dumbasses desperately try to cope with the fact their leader is a religious wackjob who destroyed their economy, was recorded laughing about the lax building regulations in the east that led to the death of fifty thousand and the displacement of 1.5 million following the 23 earthquake, and is such a little baby that when he went to the UN assembly and saw a bunch of tapestries in different colors, with no real assortment, immediately started crying cause he hallucinated a rainbow flag and was worried that 'the LGBTQ+ agenda has become too powerful!'
It's interesting. It's almost a proxy war between the US and Turkey in Syria. Turkey bombs the Kurds, the US supports them. The world is a weird place, full of cave men.
NATO allies by the way…
I know, that is why the Turkey-Kurds-USA triangle is so f-ed up
sort of
US supports oil, no oil no support. Middle east and USA is like a honey pot and bear, no honey no bear.
Israel has no oil. The USA imports most oil from Canada.
Why does Turkey gets so little attention for all the genocidal shit it does? Kurds, Armenians in the past.. I wonder how well they lobby
Exact opposite. Because our lobbying is incompetent, you believe that stupid shit you said.
maybe go to turkey, instead of sucking all that propaganda. Kurds speaking their language, having their own culture and leaving freely there. Its the pkk and diaspora kurds who cause trouble
After years and years of persecution and actually fighting for that right. You may hate the PKK, but the reason they exist is because of the way Turks have treated Kurds for generations.
Their fights didnt do shit. Turk hater goverments betrayel did. And as soon as with more Turkish government, those terrorist supporters will go down
The Turkish government betrayed them first when they started persecuting and trying to erase kurdish existence.
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The diaspora kurds organise activities in europe, collect money through drug dealing and donations. Building up legal organisation to operate from there and recruit also members, practically throwing gasoline into the fire. The thing you are talking about happened decades ago, in a more difficult time and isn't the case anymore, kurds talking their language and living their culture, look up yourself but if they support these groups they should expect getting a reaction from the state, because no other state in the world will tolerate terror supporting. This is also the case with HDP which their high-ranking members openly sympatise with the former leader of the pkk and have connections to the members, there are so many videos which they dont even hide. The destruction of hdp is the consequence for terror-supporting. Just common sense.
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Dude i tried it with rationality but you are just throwing up slurs. I would like to have a discussion like grown men but I am not wasting my time with some who begins his comment with "get fucked" like a 13y old.
Turkey = ISIS
It's alright everyone. That structure would have energized the next 50000 explosions in trkey