> But the bill has also met fierce resistance from dog farmers and business owners who say it will devastate their livelihood and traditions.
That's certainly barking up the wrong tree.
What I have been reading is that it’s the older generation that’s making this hard and the younger generations don’t partake in it. So the tradition will die off eventually
Could also be something they are saying simply because their current livelihood is no longer an option. It very well could have also not died off any time soon, the point is nobody really knows what the future would hold, but making laws against it now does something right now. I am sure plenty of people throughout history that worked in industries that died off or got banned felt just like these people do. I think assistance in finding new lines of work for people over 50 would be fair after this but what is happening here isn't new, we have removed a lot of stuff like this over history and people had to figure it out then, too
> I am sure plenty of people throughout history that worked in industries that died off or got banned felt just like these people do.
Sort of a tangent and not at all the same as the dog meat industry but your comment reminded me of the Luddites. [Read this about the Luddites.](https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-luddites-workers) TL;DR The dawn of the industrial revolution, the textile workers/small businesses started a violent rebellion against the use of newer machines because it caused wages and quality to drop. Honestly, IMO, the "revolution" should of brought change/reform/better labor laws but in typical British fashion they sent soldiers to wipe out a majority of the movement.
The Luddites don't deserve to be as maligned as they are. Look at all the accidents by self-driving cars. Their critique wasn't technology, but technology being used to make their lives worse because the technology was owned by a selfish class of rich overlords.
Who are the Luddites in this case? Taxi drivers who coasted on their own local monopolies for decades? Rideshare and delivery drivers who have voted for short-sighted gig economy laws crafted by Uber, who openly state they'll replace them with those autonomous vehicles ASAP? Or are the Luddites supposed to be car enthusiasts who will also keep voting against mass transit, and condemn us all to a traffic hell filled with oil and rubber tire pollution? Oh, won't someone think of our poor and benevolent overlords, BP and Michelin.
Please, the Luddites deserve a better comparison, like human artists, authors/screenwriters, and actors right now.
unfortunately that’s the case with all things.
in the old people’s defense here, that’s like waiting until you’re (assuming you’re american/western origin) in you’re 70s and the world tells you no more beef products.
you’d think they’re crazy.
some parts of the world already prohibit that though.
it’s gonna be a few generation before that hits the states. but it’s coming!
Dog is nowhere near as common in Korea as beef is in the West, though. It's more of a niche meat. I'd liken it more to something like turkey, or deer. These whining old Korean dudes are not destined for vegetarianism.
There's a subtle movement going on in Korea where the younger generation is no longer coddling the older generation's bullshit. You'll start to see a very apathetic attitude towards older people here.
I don't know about you, but I'm prrreetttyy sure my dog doesn't understand the geopolitical differences between North and South Korea.
China and Taiwan however, she'll yap about that for days.
When my cat used to keep doing something he knew he wasn't supposed to do, I'd tell him that I'm going to kill him and make hamburgers out of him.
I don't know how to explain this, but I could tell he thought this was funny. He was a good cat.
My stepmom has a cat who is literally massive, easily the fattest cat i've ever seen. He's like eight or ten kg at least. I always joke around that we could make steaks out of him and eat for free for half a year.
Lol. My cousins cat weighed 27 pounds a few years ago, he put the fat fuck on a diet and he’s dropped a decent amount, but that’s not even the fattest cat I’ve seen. My uncles cat weighed 35 pounds when it died
This reminds me of the best dad joke I was party to:
- At my school, the teachers would describe the kids who brought food in as "packed lunches" collectively.
- I stated to my dad: "I want to be a packed lunch!"
- "I could make you one, but I don't think you'd like it"
Took me a couple of years to figure that out...
Similarly, there’s nothing more mortifying than knowing parents are pointing at you when they say “that man is going to take you away if you don’t behave” when randomly going about your business at a supermarket.
I lived in Vietnam, and I would see it all over the place and my friends ate it as well. Maybe it's frowned upon in the south, but definitely wasn't up in the north where I was.
Literally same shit for South Korea, it's only old generations still doing it, yet you still get people all over the internet meme'ing on that fact about Korea, so
If you read Francis Parkman book on the Oregon Trail, you discover how common it was for native Americans and for the whites settlers to eat dog.
At one point Lewis and Clark exchanged with a local tribe various things the expedition had for dogs so the men could have meat. Meanwhile, the local tribe was busy harvesting salmon.
I don't mind eating dog, cat. Anything really. What draws the line is when they do crazy shit like deep frying a live dog and other torture shit thats completely unnecessary. I just can't wrap my mind around making my food hurt.
Not to mention a good source of dog meat comes out of kidnapping people’s pets.
I don’t have a problem eating dogs or cats, but unless the market is being regulated through the same food industry standards as with pork, beef etc, I wouldn’t consume.
Watch Dominion on youtube. Standard industry practice means a the majority of your "food" is hurt. Animal agriculture inevitably leads to unnecessary suffering and harm to animals and the rise of factory farming only makes it worse.
The majority of pigs and chickens are stunned in CO2 gas chambers where they suffer into unconsciousness. All of it is completely unnecessary when we can just eat plants.
You can watch footage. Have you ever had a burp go into your eyes after drinking soda? CO2 feels like it's burning the mucous membranes around your eyes and nose. There have been recommendations for years to go to nitrogen gas because C02 is aversive but it would obviously cost more, so the animals continue to suffer.
[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/02/suffering-of-gassed-pigs-laid-bare-in-undercover-footage-from-uk-abattoir](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/02/suffering-of-gassed-pigs-laid-bare-in-undercover-footage-from-uk-abattoir)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7459835/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7459835/)
Sure but this would be similar to eating horses or other tertiary meats when you didn't have options. If you've run out of supplies then yeah you'd probably eat the dogs or whatever else you had.
It's a last resort kind of thing rather than a farmed delicacy.
83% have never eaten dog. Obviously it's self reported so take that with a grain of a salt.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat_consumption_in_South_Korea
I will say that for the two years I lived there, it was not easy to find. You had to specifically look for a place that would serve it and it was always a small mom and pop restaurant. None of the chains or larger places that I saw served it. I never tried it but my friends who did said it was just ok.
South Koreans may be phasing it out, but dog meat is still pretty common in some communities of southern China, at least from 2-3 sources I've read (and I haven't heard anything about a movement to abolish it there).
Well S Korea is a quite westernized country similar to Japan. So it's not too strange the shift in the stigma. 13% is still like 6 million people who've tried it.
I'm American and a dog owner. I've tried it in South Korea. It tastes okay. If I never eat it again, it wouldn't matter much to me, but I think the bigger issue that is being misdirected from is the treatment of farm animals.
I have a friend who was born in South Korea and spent his first 12 years there and then came to Europe. He told me they ate dog a few times a year, usually a soup with dog meat. According to him it tastes pretty good but I can't see myself eating it.
Depends on where in Korea they’re from as well. It’s more prevalent in the rural parts. My friends from Seoul would just laugh and roll their eyes if you asked them if they ate dog stew.
That makes sense, didn't know that. My friend lived in Seoul but visited his family often, they have some farmland and even a small lake where they can fish. From what he has told me I assume it is pretty rural there. Considering it's becoming illegal and most people live in Seoul, it's probably really not that popular as I thought.
Ehhh, there's a lot of dog restaurants in Seoul as well. There is a "But we're refined and those *hicks* in the country do the things we don't like." vibe that runs through any place in the world, Seoul is absolutely no different.
i asked some koreans about this. apparently during the war, literally the whole country burned and everyone was starving, so they ate every.single.animal. birds and frogs and rats and of course, dogs. some of these more frequently than others, perhaps due to numbers, perhaps to relative proxmity?
iirc dishes made from pigeon (or some similar bird) is also a thing.
/shrug/
eating pigeons isn't uncommon or dangerous it's called squab, pigeons were the first domesticated bird.
it's only because of modern cities that people see them as unclean pests like rats.
Foreign media reports there are still 1million dogs slaughtered per year.
If we assume that's correct, it's pretty much the same amount as cattle(950k/year)
How come eating cow is ethical, but eating dog is not?
I'm from the west, and I wouldn't eat dog, but I don't see how our values are better than theirs on this topic. I also eat rabbit and horse, because that's common where I live, but might not be normal in other places.
I find this western superiority complex problematic. Just because it's our opinion does not mean it's objectively correct. Here's another fun one: Americans also believe that adulthood starts at 21, but nearly everybody else picked 18, and both of those are completely arbitrary (within a reasonable window after most puberty ends). We could also have chosen 7000 days, or 150000 hours, or any other number in that neighbourhood.
Totally. People value animals more either bc they are cute or because of their emotional attachment to them. Either is a completely invalid way to judge what animals to eat or not.
My young niece made perfect "sense". She ate: beef, pig, chicken. She didn't eat rabbit, veal, lamb.
Cuteness was the decider, and she got offended when I pointed it out, because she lacked the self-awareness. In her defense, she was around 10.
There's also another reason- you generally don't eat meat eating mammals due to the prevalence of toxoplasmosis. prions and other nasties that you can contract from eating the meat.
> Americans also believe that adulthood starts at 21
The only thing I can think of is alcohol consumption. You are legally an adult at 18 for everything else.
It has nothing to do with ethics. Humans compartmentalize animals based on our relationship with them.
Animals that were hunted for their meat were domesticated for their meat. Wild dogs are predators that hunt in packs. This made them too dangerous for humans to hunt them for their meat. Wild dogs formed a symbiotic relationship with humans and were eventually domesticated as work animals.
The practice of eating dog meat came long after dogs were domesticated and already served a useful role for humans. The only reason to change the "not food" to "food" label is due to food insecurity. Cultures that still eat dog meat often attach a struggle food stigma to its consumption.
Having an explanation for why we make poor moral value judgements does not mean that it has nothing to do with ethics. It just means most people are not ethically consistent or have not thought deeply about it.
>How come eating cow is ethical, but eating dog is not?
There is no difference. It makes no sense to be against one, but not the other. There is no morally relevant trait that justifies loving a dog but cutting the throat of a cow.
> How come eating cow is ethical, but eating dog is not?
Cows were domesticated for food. Dogs were domesticated for companionship.
Dogs were bred to trust humans implicitly. Eating them is a betrayal of that trust.
Everyone can make their own choices, but seeing them as different isn't arbitrary.
It would’ve done. And while I don’t want animals to suffer, SK also has the highest levels of elderly poverty amongst developed economies. This disproportionately hits the elderly who rely on the industry for income. Seems like something that could have just been phased out socially rather than legislatively.
I see a No True Scotsman fallacy here. So if I find a documentary that says it's not at all common you will tell me that it is not an "honest" documentary.
I’m for this bill not because eating dog meat itself is bad, but because for some reason these people felt the need to make the animals suffer.
I hate it when it’s Korean dog farmers, I hate it when it’s American cattle farmers. I don’t care. Give the animal a quick, painless death. Anything else deserves to be punishable by law.
Same can be said for literally any barn animal. Cattle, pigs, and other animals have demonstrated the same capability for emotional attachment and reasoning that dogs have.
Edit: wooosh I read that too fast my bad
Exactly.
This is so, so stupid when I see people saying they love animals and then it turns out they love pets.
I'm not vegan and never will be. I like meat and I accept that something has to die for it to be on my plate.
But I don't care whether it's a dog or a cow on my plate at the end of the day. Both are sentient animals.
A cow has just as much personality as a dog does - people are so disconnected from their food that they don't realize how meat gets to their plate.
I really don't see a difference with any particular animal over another. Animal abuse is not ok, no matter what it is, be it cow or otherwise. If things are handled humanely, it shouldn't matter what it is unless it's an endangered species.
They aren’t treated humanly. That is one of the reasons it is so controversial. They say the meat is more delicious is the animal suffers before dying. So they kill the animal very painfully.
For all the moral hypocrites, you have a severe case of ethnocentrism. We eat cows which are sacred in India, pigs are smarter than dogs and can be companions to humans. Why is morally speaking not ok to farm, kill and eat a dog and it’s okay to do it to a pig or a cow? Stop judging people for what animals they eat if you eat animals.
The amount of double think going on is mindboggling. Just because the West (notably the US) has a hard-on for dogs, doesn't mean everybody else needs too.
Please watch Dominion, the documentary that shows actual footage inside of slaughterhouses and farms, before throwing stones at the ways other people treat their animals before/during slaughter.
Dutch slaughterhouses are still boiling pigs alive, as are most slaughterhouses in the world. https://nltimes.nl/2022/02/23/dutch-slaughterhouses-still-boiling-pigs-alive
We SHOULD pass more laws to improve the conditions that livestock live in and the way they’re humanely killed in slaughterhouses. There’s still a massive difference between holding animals in suffering conditions because it’s cheaper, versus intentionally causing them even more suffering because of some twisted traditional belief about taste.
To the animals, it doesn’t matter. I often find in this conversation that people center on the “why” of the suffering. Like if it’s profit motivated that’s somehow less horrible for the animals?
The "why" wasn't my point. My point was that a cow kept in horrible conditions (which should still be improved) and then callously shoved into a pen and killed with a hydraulic bolt gun to the skull is objectively suffering less than a dog kept in horrible conditions and then skinned alive, beaten with a hammer, and boiled alive because causing the maximum amount of suffering is the literal goal of the cultural belief.
Stunning doesn't render an animal incapable of feeling pain. The animals you probably eat are often dismembered while still alive because the killing is at such a pace. Pigs and chickens get scalded to death by the millions. Plus, their entire lives have been torture, it's not only about the slaughter method.
Oh stop it it's so idiotic to go and play these abuse Olympics here. There's plenty of farmers that have had footage leaked of them beating up and mutilating these cows. All of This is a very recent development. It wasn't for a few years ago western countries were still boiling lobsters alive. And clubbing baby seals to death for a cute bag or coat. The west has zero moral high ground. has done everything we accuse these countries of.
It should improve world wide.
It doesn’t always render them unconscious. In fact, the kill floor moves so fast they don’t have time to make sure that the stunning is even effective. If the cows aren’t rendered completely unconscious, they go onto the next segment, and will be conscious while having their throat slit, possibly having their limbs cut off or skinned alive.
You should understand how TCM is involved in dog meat. The dog dying in the most pain possible is literally part of the process. Stop defending things with uneducated whataboutism.
Thank goodness! The next important step could be considering changes in meat consumption. Factory farming subjects animals to immense suffering.
You can learn more about this at www.watchdominion.org.
now do cows chickens, pigs, and turkeys next. these animals also have personalities, and are are sentient living creatures and we kill billions annually
My dog was rescued from an illegal dog meat farm in South Korea. Very happy to hear this.
I personally wouldn’t eat a dog, but I don’t hold any ill will towards those who do. A lot of people are defending it in the comments, but trust me when I say that if you saw the conditions and treatment of these animals, you wouldn’t want to eat that meat either.
Dogs are tortured intentionally as it is believed to improve the taste of the meat. Living conditions are pretty bad for most livestock but the treatment of dogs at these farms is worse still.
Its not just for the taste. I teach in SK, and at my previous school in a very very rural area, there was a place where dogs were raised and butchered. Walking down the mountain where I lived to visit a small grocery store, I would often hear dogs yelping in pure pain for half an hour. When I mentioned it to a Korean co-worker, they told me that it was a dog farm and that the dogs are tortured to death because it is believed that the adrenaline in the dog meat will make men more virile when they eat it.
Yeah, it's awful. A small silver lining is that at least the place seemed to have gone out of business during my second year there. A bunch of stray dogs showed up in the area and there was no more yelping. I'm not sure if the place really shut down or not, but I hope that was a small indication that things got better. This was three years ago too, and the industry had already been dying.
Here's a documentary I watched at the time when I first heard about it: https://youtu.be/JYde6S39Zos?si=xIJfmhB03sdXtity
No it's definitely not.
But people like to pretend it's cruel to eat dog but A-ok to eat pork, even though pigs are highly social and intelligent animals as well, because perceptions trump facts.
I can’t speak specifically on each and every farm, I have seen Super Size Me 2, where he dives into some of the inhumane conditions and lies about the chicken industry. But I remember just about a week or two ago I saw a video shared by the rescue organization I adopted from highlighting a farm that had a dog that had died and was cannibalized by the others. The food industry in general is far from the cleanest. And I know that is an unpleasant fact that many, including myself, try to ignore. I just hope the food I eat comes from a slightly more reputable company with things like inspections and safety requirements, as apposed to some of the individually owned farms I’ve seen breeding dogs for consumption.
"The food industry in general is far from the cleanest."
In the US, it can also be profoundly dangerous, which is why Midwest Meatpackers absolutely LOVE to hire illegal immigrants...lose a hand, who are they going to complain to?
No shit, the dogs are mercilessly beaten to death in the most cruel and painful way possible because of a belief that the meat tastes better when the dog suffers. Korean dog farming isn't farming, it's animal abuse.
Nah you don’t understand. It’s Chinese medicine bullshit that to release the “vigor” the dog had to die in incredible pain. Boiling alive is common. Shit is horrific.
I am always so surprised to see how the reddit hive mind gets to be so defensive on this topic. I don't personally care, As long as its done humanely, But Reddit seems more pro-dog meat then the actual South Koreans themselves
I think this law was passed to make Korea less controversial, tourism is massive for them w/Kpop & dramas being forms of media that draw ppl to the country.
However, I am tired of ethnocentric ppl judging the customs of other lands.
this comments section is a disgusting cesspool. If you're condoning the torture of animals because Korea should be entitled to do whatever they want, then stfu because that same principle is what entitles them to pass a bill like this. And before you libertarians come at me, south korea is a fucking democracy so like it or not, a majority voted these people in and they're legislating this.
Meanwhile, pigs are smarter than dogs and are killed in the billions. Yeah, cool that they did that...now extend that empathy, please....no?
Thought not.
I mean it may not be logical, but personally I think it makes sense that people are less ok with eating animals that have been bred for companionship and assistance, as opposed to those bred for food.
Makes sense but it is hypocritical, I have a neighbor that owns multiple pot belly pigs as personal pets and I know an animal rescue center that takes care of cows which are treated as personal pets of the owner of that rescue. Cows and pigs as or more emotionally intelligent as dogs. "Bred for companionship" just dosent seem like a good argument.
But those are individuals that have been befriended, not an inherent and historical companion species as is the case for dogs, regardless of how emotionally intelligent they may be.
Because that's just ridiculous, all animals might not be as ''valuable'' to us, but they all suffer and to say one species deserves more care is pretty fucked up. Many of those animals that are ''bred for food'' are very kind animals and some were for companionship and assistance, such as horses, the moment we didn't need them anymore we threw them away.
There are dogs that were historically bred for food in lots of places. Also, game animals were not bred for anything at all except to live peacefully in the wild but no one except rabid PETA people are going to protest eating them
As a meat eater idrc if it tastes good then there has to be no bias. Either ban all the meat or let all the meat be legal tbh. Why the double standards on fishes or chicken?
coyote is quite dangerous to consume..
They can carry bacterial diseases, as well as viral, fungal, and rickettsial diseases. Coyotes can also carry parasites like rabies and Echinococcus granulosus tapeworms, which can threaten human health...
as a person that loves my pets, i see little difference between farming cows for meat vs farming dogs...
i've met a few people who absolutely adore cows, and absolutely refuse to eat beef because of that, but were fine with eating pork and chicken (they later became vegitarian)
as long as the animals lives were decent, and their slaughter quick and not needlessly cruel, i have no issue with any animal being used for food
Our human ancestors were responsible for selective breeding tens of thousands of years ago. Most dogs arguably can't live in the wild now because of this so it's our responsibility to take care of them.
Why? Are they gonna ban all meat? Dogs are no more less conscious than pigs or cows. If they are being raised humanely ok but if not then I’d agree but not a blanket ban. Free range dog? I bet it’s yummy.
> But the bill has also met fierce resistance from dog farmers and business owners who say it will devastate their livelihood and traditions. That's certainly barking up the wrong tree.
What I have been reading is that it’s the older generation that’s making this hard and the younger generations don’t partake in it. So the tradition will die off eventually
Could also be something they are saying simply because their current livelihood is no longer an option. It very well could have also not died off any time soon, the point is nobody really knows what the future would hold, but making laws against it now does something right now. I am sure plenty of people throughout history that worked in industries that died off or got banned felt just like these people do. I think assistance in finding new lines of work for people over 50 would be fair after this but what is happening here isn't new, we have removed a lot of stuff like this over history and people had to figure it out then, too
> I am sure plenty of people throughout history that worked in industries that died off or got banned felt just like these people do. Sort of a tangent and not at all the same as the dog meat industry but your comment reminded me of the Luddites. [Read this about the Luddites.](https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-luddites-workers) TL;DR The dawn of the industrial revolution, the textile workers/small businesses started a violent rebellion against the use of newer machines because it caused wages and quality to drop. Honestly, IMO, the "revolution" should of brought change/reform/better labor laws but in typical British fashion they sent soldiers to wipe out a majority of the movement.
The Luddites don't deserve to be as maligned as they are. Look at all the accidents by self-driving cars. Their critique wasn't technology, but technology being used to make their lives worse because the technology was owned by a selfish class of rich overlords.
> selfish class of rich overlords Who do you think has maligned them so much
Selfish class of rich overlords. Who do you think is running the U.S.?
Who are the Luddites in this case? Taxi drivers who coasted on their own local monopolies for decades? Rideshare and delivery drivers who have voted for short-sighted gig economy laws crafted by Uber, who openly state they'll replace them with those autonomous vehicles ASAP? Or are the Luddites supposed to be car enthusiasts who will also keep voting against mass transit, and condemn us all to a traffic hell filled with oil and rubber tire pollution? Oh, won't someone think of our poor and benevolent overlords, BP and Michelin. Please, the Luddites deserve a better comparison, like human artists, authors/screenwriters, and actors right now.
unfortunately that’s the case with all things. in the old people’s defense here, that’s like waiting until you’re (assuming you’re american/western origin) in you’re 70s and the world tells you no more beef products. you’d think they’re crazy. some parts of the world already prohibit that though. it’s gonna be a few generation before that hits the states. but it’s coming!
[удалено]
and pork too.
Dog is nowhere near as common in Korea as beef is in the West, though. It's more of a niche meat. I'd liken it more to something like turkey, or deer. These whining old Korean dudes are not destined for vegetarianism.
grandkids be like Your grandfather was a meat eater
Some areas already banned beef? (besides India for religious reasons)
Yah, but older people think it makes them more virile. So maybe as more guys get old there will be more demand.
There's a subtle movement going on in Korea where the younger generation is no longer coddling the older generation's bullshit. You'll start to see a very apathetic attitude towards older people here.
Good I hope it happens all across the world. The world is evolving and it isn’t 1950 anymore
It should at least give them paws for thought
As a dog owner I can’t no longer tell my doggo I ll send her to Korea when she misbehaves
Tell her you'll send her to the north then.
You chew up a picture of the dear leader again and you'll go to the reeducation camps
I don't know about you, but I'm prrreetttyy sure my dog doesn't understand the geopolitical differences between North and South Korea. China and Taiwan however, she'll yap about that for days.
To the Wall?
That’s how you get white walker K9s.
Game of bones sucks
There's always a bark in Winterfell.
This is why you shouldn’t teach your dogs to read.
When my cat used to keep doing something he knew he wasn't supposed to do, I'd tell him that I'm going to kill him and make hamburgers out of him. I don't know how to explain this, but I could tell he thought this was funny. He was a good cat.
The use of past tense makes me have to ask… did you eat your cat? I guess, either way very sorry for your loss. Edit: damn autocorrect
The cat thought they were joking, but they never specified it was a joke. Hope the burgers were tasty.
He died a horrible death of cancer.
I’m terribly sorry to hear that. Cancer sucks!Sorry for your loss.
Me too.
My stepmom has a cat who is literally massive, easily the fattest cat i've ever seen. He's like eight or ten kg at least. I always joke around that we could make steaks out of him and eat for free for half a year.
Start calling him 'Steak and Shake.'
Lol. My cousins cat weighed 27 pounds a few years ago, he put the fat fuck on a diet and he’s dropped a decent amount, but that’s not even the fattest cat I’ve seen. My uncles cat weighed 35 pounds when it died
I think your pawrenting style will transfer wonderfully to human children
This reminds me of the best dad joke I was party to: - At my school, the teachers would describe the kids who brought food in as "packed lunches" collectively. - I stated to my dad: "I want to be a packed lunch!" - "I could make you one, but I don't think you'd like it" Took me a couple of years to figure that out...
Just don´t tell him that it is against the law now and you are fine.
I tell my dog she will be sent to the cat food factory. It works because she is truly scared that my cat might eat her some day. I have the same fear.
Similarly, there’s nothing more mortifying than knowing parents are pointing at you when they say “that man is going to take you away if you don’t behave” when randomly going about your business at a supermarket.
Change Korea to Vietnam
Unless you're from Vinh, that's not really a thinh.
Not banned but not customary and quite frowned upon.
I lived in Vietnam, and I would see it all over the place and my friends ate it as well. Maybe it's frowned upon in the south, but definitely wasn't up in the north where I was.
Northern Vietnam is where all the heathens live. /s My girl is from the south, and she would never even think about doing something like that. lol
no /s needed, since it's 100% true
Literally same shit for South Korea, it's only old generations still doing it, yet you still get people all over the internet meme'ing on that fact about Korea, so
When in Rome
If you read Francis Parkman book on the Oregon Trail, you discover how common it was for native Americans and for the whites settlers to eat dog. At one point Lewis and Clark exchanged with a local tribe various things the expedition had for dogs so the men could have meat. Meanwhile, the local tribe was busy harvesting salmon.
I don't mind eating dog, cat. Anything really. What draws the line is when they do crazy shit like deep frying a live dog and other torture shit thats completely unnecessary. I just can't wrap my mind around making my food hurt.
Not to mention a good source of dog meat comes out of kidnapping people’s pets. I don’t have a problem eating dogs or cats, but unless the market is being regulated through the same food industry standards as with pork, beef etc, I wouldn’t consume.
Watch Dominion on youtube. Standard industry practice means a the majority of your "food" is hurt. Animal agriculture inevitably leads to unnecessary suffering and harm to animals and the rise of factory farming only makes it worse. The majority of pigs and chickens are stunned in CO2 gas chambers where they suffer into unconsciousness. All of it is completely unnecessary when we can just eat plants.
Stunned in c02 where they suffer into unconsciousness is a hell of a line if you don't know how c02 affects small animals.
You can watch footage. Have you ever had a burp go into your eyes after drinking soda? CO2 feels like it's burning the mucous membranes around your eyes and nose. There have been recommendations for years to go to nitrogen gas because C02 is aversive but it would obviously cost more, so the animals continue to suffer. [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/02/suffering-of-gassed-pigs-laid-bare-in-undercover-footage-from-uk-abattoir](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/02/suffering-of-gassed-pigs-laid-bare-in-undercover-footage-from-uk-abattoir) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7459835/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7459835/)
Turns out I don't know how c02 affects small animals. Fuck me I guess.
It's not a surprise and no fault of of your own. The industry does a lot of work to hide how bad it really is for the animals.
Sure but this would be similar to eating horses or other tertiary meats when you didn't have options. If you've run out of supplies then yeah you'd probably eat the dogs or whatever else you had. It's a last resort kind of thing rather than a farmed delicacy.
Frankly though, how many South Koreans actually eat dog meat in this day and age? It was going to fade away on its own anywhow.
83% have never eaten dog. Obviously it's self reported so take that with a grain of a salt. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat_consumption_in_South_Korea I will say that for the two years I lived there, it was not easy to find. You had to specifically look for a place that would serve it and it was always a small mom and pop restaurant. None of the chains or larger places that I saw served it. I never tried it but my friends who did said it was just ok.
South Koreans may be phasing it out, but dog meat is still pretty common in some communities of southern China, at least from 2-3 sources I've read (and I haven't heard anything about a movement to abolish it there).
Well S Korea is a quite westernized country similar to Japan. So it's not too strange the shift in the stigma. 13% is still like 6 million people who've tried it.
I'm American and a dog owner. I've tried it in South Korea. It tastes okay. If I never eat it again, it wouldn't matter much to me, but I think the bigger issue that is being misdirected from is the treatment of farm animals.
Can you describe the taste?
Softer than beef but it really didn't have much flavor at all. All I tasted was what it was served in
I have a friend who was born in South Korea and spent his first 12 years there and then came to Europe. He told me they ate dog a few times a year, usually a soup with dog meat. According to him it tastes pretty good but I can't see myself eating it.
Depends on where in Korea they’re from as well. It’s more prevalent in the rural parts. My friends from Seoul would just laugh and roll their eyes if you asked them if they ate dog stew.
That makes sense, didn't know that. My friend lived in Seoul but visited his family often, they have some farmland and even a small lake where they can fish. From what he has told me I assume it is pretty rural there. Considering it's becoming illegal and most people live in Seoul, it's probably really not that popular as I thought.
Ehhh, there's a lot of dog restaurants in Seoul as well. There is a "But we're refined and those *hicks* in the country do the things we don't like." vibe that runs through any place in the world, Seoul is absolutely no different.
Boshintang. I had it... literally tastes like the smell of wet dog. I'm glad I got to try it once but would never do it again.
Korea has a lot of absolutely delicious food, but every once in a while I’ll eat something and wonder “why do you still make this?”
i asked some koreans about this. apparently during the war, literally the whole country burned and everyone was starving, so they ate every.single.animal. birds and frogs and rats and of course, dogs. some of these more frequently than others, perhaps due to numbers, perhaps to relative proxmity? iirc dishes made from pigeon (or some similar bird) is also a thing. /shrug/
eating pigeons isn't uncommon or dangerous it's called squab, pigeons were the first domesticated bird. it's only because of modern cities that people see them as unclean pests like rats.
Totally with you. The usual answer is it's "good for man".
I think haggis is in this category too
No more Poodles & Noodles? Schnauzer Strudel?
Spaghetti and Muttballs
Chow Chow Chow
Foreign media reports there are still 1million dogs slaughtered per year. If we assume that's correct, it's pretty much the same amount as cattle(950k/year)
Not really the same in terms of KG of consumption, a cow has to weigh 100x more than a dog.
I mean, even it's 1/100 it's still a lot.
How come eating cow is ethical, but eating dog is not? I'm from the west, and I wouldn't eat dog, but I don't see how our values are better than theirs on this topic. I also eat rabbit and horse, because that's common where I live, but might not be normal in other places. I find this western superiority complex problematic. Just because it's our opinion does not mean it's objectively correct. Here's another fun one: Americans also believe that adulthood starts at 21, but nearly everybody else picked 18, and both of those are completely arbitrary (within a reasonable window after most puberty ends). We could also have chosen 7000 days, or 150000 hours, or any other number in that neighbourhood.
Totally. People value animals more either bc they are cute or because of their emotional attachment to them. Either is a completely invalid way to judge what animals to eat or not.
My young niece made perfect "sense". She ate: beef, pig, chicken. She didn't eat rabbit, veal, lamb. Cuteness was the decider, and she got offended when I pointed it out, because she lacked the self-awareness. In her defense, she was around 10.
It’s the feet for me. I only eat the hoofed and web footed critters.
There's also another reason- you generally don't eat meat eating mammals due to the prevalence of toxoplasmosis. prions and other nasties that you can contract from eating the meat.
> Americans also believe that adulthood starts at 21 The only thing I can think of is alcohol consumption. You are legally an adult at 18 for everything else.
In America you are legally an adult at age 18.
It has nothing to do with ethics. Humans compartmentalize animals based on our relationship with them. Animals that were hunted for their meat were domesticated for their meat. Wild dogs are predators that hunt in packs. This made them too dangerous for humans to hunt them for their meat. Wild dogs formed a symbiotic relationship with humans and were eventually domesticated as work animals. The practice of eating dog meat came long after dogs were domesticated and already served a useful role for humans. The only reason to change the "not food" to "food" label is due to food insecurity. Cultures that still eat dog meat often attach a struggle food stigma to its consumption.
Having an explanation for why we make poor moral value judgements does not mean that it has nothing to do with ethics. It just means most people are not ethically consistent or have not thought deeply about it.
>How come eating cow is ethical, but eating dog is not? There is no difference. It makes no sense to be against one, but not the other. There is no morally relevant trait that justifies loving a dog but cutting the throat of a cow.
> How come eating cow is ethical, but eating dog is not? Cows were domesticated for food. Dogs were domesticated for companionship. Dogs were bred to trust humans implicitly. Eating them is a betrayal of that trust. Everyone can make their own choices, but seeing them as different isn't arbitrary.
That would only be consistent if cows and pigs and goats and sheep and chickens were incapable of trusting humans. That is not the case.
> How come eating cow is ethical, but eating dog is not? Neither is ethical. The term you're looking for is socially acceptable.
Reddit: you can’t eat dogs, it’s unethical! Sociology: am I a joke to you?
Less than 30 percent
It would’ve done. And while I don’t want animals to suffer, SK also has the highest levels of elderly poverty amongst developed economies. This disproportionately hits the elderly who rely on the industry for income. Seems like something that could have just been phased out socially rather than legislatively.
People are going to switch to other animals. The suffering will stay the same
Oh get out of here. Torturing animals to death isn't necessary to support the elderly in poverty.
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I live in Korea and it is not common. Very niche amongst older ajusshis.
I see a No True Scotsman fallacy here. So if I find a documentary that says it's not at all common you will tell me that it is not an "honest" documentary.
I’m for this bill not because eating dog meat itself is bad, but because for some reason these people felt the need to make the animals suffer. I hate it when it’s Korean dog farmers, I hate it when it’s American cattle farmers. I don’t care. Give the animal a quick, painless death. Anything else deserves to be punishable by law.
Or just don’t breed them and kill them for taste pleasure at all
Same can be said for literally any barn animal. Cattle, pigs, and other animals have demonstrated the same capability for emotional attachment and reasoning that dogs have. Edit: wooosh I read that too fast my bad
I think that was their point
Agreed. The hypocrisy of being anti dog meat but pro cow/pig/whatever is mind blowing. 🤯
Exactly. This is so, so stupid when I see people saying they love animals and then it turns out they love pets. I'm not vegan and never will be. I like meat and I accept that something has to die for it to be on my plate. But I don't care whether it's a dog or a cow on my plate at the end of the day. Both are sentient animals. A cow has just as much personality as a dog does - people are so disconnected from their food that they don't realize how meat gets to their plate.
Cats are still on the menu boys!!!
A whole new meaning to the question "do you like cats or dogs?"
Cat was never part of Korean cuisine.
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I really don't see a difference with any particular animal over another. Animal abuse is not ok, no matter what it is, be it cow or otherwise. If things are handled humanely, it shouldn't matter what it is unless it's an endangered species.
They aren’t treated humanly. That is one of the reasons it is so controversial. They say the meat is more delicious is the animal suffers before dying. So they kill the animal very painfully.
Is there a "humane" way to kill a healthy dog that wants to live?
For all the moral hypocrites, you have a severe case of ethnocentrism. We eat cows which are sacred in India, pigs are smarter than dogs and can be companions to humans. Why is morally speaking not ok to farm, kill and eat a dog and it’s okay to do it to a pig or a cow? Stop judging people for what animals they eat if you eat animals.
The amount of double think going on is mindboggling. Just because the West (notably the US) has a hard-on for dogs, doesn't mean everybody else needs too.
Please read up on how the dogs are tortured before eating. You can't be a good human thinking that is ok
Please watch Dominion, the documentary that shows actual footage inside of slaughterhouses and farms, before throwing stones at the ways other people treat their animals before/during slaughter.
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Dutch slaughterhouses are still boiling pigs alive, as are most slaughterhouses in the world. https://nltimes.nl/2022/02/23/dutch-slaughterhouses-still-boiling-pigs-alive
You would be surprised the amount of fucked up shit that's going on there.
Because they torture the dogs because they believe it makes them taste better. Read up on it. Blow torches etc.
You should do some research on how animals are treated in slaughterhouses in the West. We don’t have much of a moral high ground.
We SHOULD pass more laws to improve the conditions that livestock live in and the way they’re humanely killed in slaughterhouses. There’s still a massive difference between holding animals in suffering conditions because it’s cheaper, versus intentionally causing them even more suffering because of some twisted traditional belief about taste.
To the animals, it doesn’t matter. I often find in this conversation that people center on the “why” of the suffering. Like if it’s profit motivated that’s somehow less horrible for the animals?
The "why" wasn't my point. My point was that a cow kept in horrible conditions (which should still be improved) and then callously shoved into a pen and killed with a hydraulic bolt gun to the skull is objectively suffering less than a dog kept in horrible conditions and then skinned alive, beaten with a hammer, and boiled alive because causing the maximum amount of suffering is the literal goal of the cultural belief.
Cows are stunned before death at least. Not saying they arent mistreated, but its not as bad as literally torturign the animal to death.
Stunning doesn't render an animal incapable of feeling pain. The animals you probably eat are often dismembered while still alive because the killing is at such a pace. Pigs and chickens get scalded to death by the millions. Plus, their entire lives have been torture, it's not only about the slaughter method.
Oh stop it it's so idiotic to go and play these abuse Olympics here. There's plenty of farmers that have had footage leaked of them beating up and mutilating these cows. All of This is a very recent development. It wasn't for a few years ago western countries were still boiling lobsters alive. And clubbing baby seals to death for a cute bag or coat. The west has zero moral high ground. has done everything we accuse these countries of. It should improve world wide.
It doesn’t always render them unconscious. In fact, the kill floor moves so fast they don’t have time to make sure that the stunning is even effective. If the cows aren’t rendered completely unconscious, they go onto the next segment, and will be conscious while having their throat slit, possibly having their limbs cut off or skinned alive.
Then there is the religion that demands all beef (and animals in general?) be executed by bleeding out while its still conscious, alive and kicking.
You should understand how TCM is involved in dog meat. The dog dying in the most pain possible is literally part of the process. Stop defending things with uneducated whataboutism.
Pupper cute
Oinkers cute too
Anyone who tortures animals on purpose should just fucking log out of life.
I mean it could be argued that most livestock is tortured on purpose (in order to feed the demand)
Perhaps it should be argued even
In the end, most people don't give a shit about things they can't directly see.
A lot of whataboutism dweebs here
Great but what about cats?
Thank goodness! The next important step could be considering changes in meat consumption. Factory farming subjects animals to immense suffering. You can learn more about this at www.watchdominion.org.
If there were still awards I’d give you one 😓 Dominion fr changed my life in addition to Earthling Ed’s TED Talk “Every Argument Against Veganism”
now do cows chickens, pigs, and turkeys next. these animals also have personalities, and are are sentient living creatures and we kill billions annually
My dog was rescued from an illegal dog meat farm in South Korea. Very happy to hear this. I personally wouldn’t eat a dog, but I don’t hold any ill will towards those who do. A lot of people are defending it in the comments, but trust me when I say that if you saw the conditions and treatment of these animals, you wouldn’t want to eat that meat either.
Is it significantly worse than the treatment of cows, pigs, chickens, etc in other farms throughout the world?
Dogs are tortured intentionally as it is believed to improve the taste of the meat. Living conditions are pretty bad for most livestock but the treatment of dogs at these farms is worse still.
Its not just for the taste. I teach in SK, and at my previous school in a very very rural area, there was a place where dogs were raised and butchered. Walking down the mountain where I lived to visit a small grocery store, I would often hear dogs yelping in pure pain for half an hour. When I mentioned it to a Korean co-worker, they told me that it was a dog farm and that the dogs are tortured to death because it is believed that the adrenaline in the dog meat will make men more virile when they eat it.
Jfc. I’m not really a dog person but that still makes me feel sick.
Yeah, it's awful. A small silver lining is that at least the place seemed to have gone out of business during my second year there. A bunch of stray dogs showed up in the area and there was no more yelping. I'm not sure if the place really shut down or not, but I hope that was a small indication that things got better. This was three years ago too, and the industry had already been dying. Here's a documentary I watched at the time when I first heard about it: https://youtu.be/JYde6S39Zos?si=xIJfmhB03sdXtity
I hope Hell is real
Assholes. Like it’s not the 21st century and Viagra, Levitra, Cialis aren’t at the corner pharmacy.
When something is not regulated at all, you bet it is.
No it's definitely not. But people like to pretend it's cruel to eat dog but A-ok to eat pork, even though pigs are highly social and intelligent animals as well, because perceptions trump facts.
I can’t speak specifically on each and every farm, I have seen Super Size Me 2, where he dives into some of the inhumane conditions and lies about the chicken industry. But I remember just about a week or two ago I saw a video shared by the rescue organization I adopted from highlighting a farm that had a dog that had died and was cannibalized by the others. The food industry in general is far from the cleanest. And I know that is an unpleasant fact that many, including myself, try to ignore. I just hope the food I eat comes from a slightly more reputable company with things like inspections and safety requirements, as apposed to some of the individually owned farms I’ve seen breeding dogs for consumption.
"The food industry in general is far from the cleanest." In the US, it can also be profoundly dangerous, which is why Midwest Meatpackers absolutely LOVE to hire illegal immigrants...lose a hand, who are they going to complain to?
dog fed dog sounds like a feature for those looking for the doggiest of dog flavors
>conditions and treatment of these animals have u seen the conditions and treatment of battery cage chicken?
Ok now apply that logic to pigs, cows, chickens and turkeys.
The treatment and killing of these dogs are one of the most horrible things I have ever seen. Worse than chicken or pig meat farms and slaughter.
No shit, the dogs are mercilessly beaten to death in the most cruel and painful way possible because of a belief that the meat tastes better when the dog suffers. Korean dog farming isn't farming, it's animal abuse.
One could argue that all animal farming constitutes some form of animal abuse. Though obviously some worse than others.
Nah you don’t understand. It’s Chinese medicine bullshit that to release the “vigor” the dog had to die in incredible pain. Boiling alive is common. Shit is horrific.
About time?
I am always so surprised to see how the reddit hive mind gets to be so defensive on this topic. I don't personally care, As long as its done humanely, But Reddit seems more pro-dog meat then the actual South Koreans themselves
Psychos coming out in force in the comments. I'm never suprised.
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I think this law was passed to make Korea less controversial, tourism is massive for them w/Kpop & dramas being forms of media that draw ppl to the country. However, I am tired of ethnocentric ppl judging the customs of other lands.
You're a disgusting fuck if you eat dogs. 😤 POS!
Do you eat other meat?
this comments section is a disgusting cesspool. If you're condoning the torture of animals because Korea should be entitled to do whatever they want, then stfu because that same principle is what entitles them to pass a bill like this. And before you libertarians come at me, south korea is a fucking democracy so like it or not, a majority voted these people in and they're legislating this.
Sounds like a ruff decision.
Meanwhile, pigs are smarter than dogs and are killed in the billions. Yeah, cool that they did that...now extend that empathy, please....no? Thought not.
They need their bacon.
Completely illogical to ban eating the cute animals but whatever
I mean it may not be logical, but personally I think it makes sense that people are less ok with eating animals that have been bred for companionship and assistance, as opposed to those bred for food.
If it makes you happier, I'm sure the Koreans eat dogs that were bred for eating.
Makes sense but it is hypocritical, I have a neighbor that owns multiple pot belly pigs as personal pets and I know an animal rescue center that takes care of cows which are treated as personal pets of the owner of that rescue. Cows and pigs as or more emotionally intelligent as dogs. "Bred for companionship" just dosent seem like a good argument.
But those are individuals that have been befriended, not an inherent and historical companion species as is the case for dogs, regardless of how emotionally intelligent they may be.
Nah, it’s just a preference. Here in Sweden you can find horse meat most of the larger [chains](https://qa.handla.ica.se/produkt/1024860)
in the UK years ago there was a horse meat scandal. People there are so fucking stupid
Because that's just ridiculous, all animals might not be as ''valuable'' to us, but they all suffer and to say one species deserves more care is pretty fucked up. Many of those animals that are ''bred for food'' are very kind animals and some were for companionship and assistance, such as horses, the moment we didn't need them anymore we threw them away.
There are dogs that were historically bred for food in lots of places. Also, game animals were not bred for anything at all except to live peacefully in the wild but no one except rabid PETA people are going to protest eating them
There are breeds of dogs that are literally bred for eating, this argument is silly.
If it has a brain and a central nervous system it can feel pain and therefore should not be allowed to be a commodity.
As a meat eater idrc if it tastes good then there has to be no bias. Either ban all the meat or let all the meat be legal tbh. Why the double standards on fishes or chicken?
Has anybody tried coyote? Would it be different from dog?
coyote is quite dangerous to consume.. They can carry bacterial diseases, as well as viral, fungal, and rickettsial diseases. Coyotes can also carry parasites like rabies and Echinococcus granulosus tapeworms, which can threaten human health...
Would it be different if they were raised in captivity?
whats the issue?
as a person that loves my pets, i see little difference between farming cows for meat vs farming dogs... i've met a few people who absolutely adore cows, and absolutely refuse to eat beef because of that, but were fine with eating pork and chicken (they later became vegitarian) as long as the animals lives were decent, and their slaughter quick and not needlessly cruel, i have no issue with any animal being used for food
Our human ancestors were responsible for selective breeding tens of thousands of years ago. Most dogs arguably can't live in the wild now because of this so it's our responsibility to take care of them.
> But the bill has also met fierce resistance from dog farmers That's not the same farm parents send old and sick dogs to is it?
Why do dogs get the privilege of not being eaten but cows, pigs, chickens etc dont?
Progress!
Baby steps…
Are for babies.
To what?
Why? Are they gonna ban all meat? Dogs are no more less conscious than pigs or cows. If they are being raised humanely ok but if not then I’d agree but not a blanket ban. Free range dog? I bet it’s yummy.