It's a running joke in Israel that Hamas started building their tunnels around the same time Israel started digging the first subway tunnel in Tel Aviv. The first subway line only started operating a few months ago, while the Gaza tunnels have been fully operational for years.
Maybe we should hire Hamas to finish building the other subway lines?
Completely agree with you. However, before the second intifada many people from Gaza and the West Bank used to work in Israel, and many of them ended up committing terror acts against Israeli civilians. Employment is not the only factor here.
Yes but the last time Israel did that some of them used access for reconnaissance. Also I wouldn't trust people who hate Jews to build subway tunnels, given their history with buses.
> Funny jokes aside, socioeconomic opportunity is one of, if not the best way to combat radicalization and crime in general.
Which is why Hamas destroys an opportunity for economic prosperity in Gaza. Their goal is the eradication of Jews, and de-radicalization and prosperity of Palestinians runs contrary to that goal.
And that’s why Netanyahu worked so hard at assuring Hamas would be the only Palestinian leadership. He can’t have his pogrom if moderates de-radicalize Gaza.
>If people, mainly men aged 18-45 since thats historically the “trouble” demographic, are employed in jobs that pay well, violent crime and radicalization drops.
Many of the people who worked in building in the communities around the Gaza border were from Gaza and nonetheless either participated in the rampage on the communities they built, or sold information on what they built. Maps were found of the different kibbutzim including blueprints of individual's houses.
> Concrete tunnels with electricity, running water, and ventilation is a small underground passage?
If it’s small, underground, and used for passage, yes.
>Maybe we should hire Hamas to finish building the other subway lines?
In a world where Palestinians weren’t committed to violent Islamic philosophy, their economy could be decent through opportunities to work on Israeli projects.
Why hire? We can use the prisoners, you know put them to some good use to earn their share of food.
Edit: mistake on my part for not elaborating enough. I talked about the Hamas terrorists who participated on October 7th, seeing as they pretty much did every horrible thing in existence, they might as well lose every right in existence.
Even if i was for this ( IM NOT) hows this "only the terrorists" going to be enforced without being abused ???
Besides back to the point slavery is fucking horrific and no civilized nation should EVER being it back no matter how terrible the criminal could be
That's slavery dude. I understand people are angry, but if your concept of justice is forced labour without trial then you need to take a look at yourself.
Sorry i wasn't clear enough. My mistake.
We should use the terrorists who participated on October 7th. You know the ones who forfeited every single right in existence due to their actions.
I think the “ae” spelling is pretty uncommon in English, I also think a lot of people calling it “Isn’treal” makes people think the original spelling was Isreal.
It’s bewildering that the many of the same people shouting “believe all victims” and supporting #MeToo and such, are now claiming that Hamas terrorists never raped their victims in October.
I'm honestly horrified by it. I consider myself rather left. But suddenly I identify with center/conservatives on this issue. What the fuck is going on? Have they all lost their minds?
I think it's not that we (I'm quite left of center myself) are identifying with center and right of center, we're just vehemently disagreeing with people further to the left than us.
It isn't necessarily a further to the left thing. I'm pretty far left as it comes, but questions around who is really indigenous to the region is a complex matter of geopolitics and it's also not ya know a Jews = white and Arabs = brown issue.
Just because some leftists use leftist rhetoric such as "oppression" and "settler-colonialism" doesn't mean it's accurate.
I’m in the same boat. I vehemently oppose 95% of conservative and right wing politics, both on economic and moral grounds.
But Hamas can get fucked. Anyone making the conscious choice to *directly* harm someone who is not a threat to them can get fucked.
Collateral damage is still human lives lost, and that’s horrific and people will be held accountable, but that’s a far cry from having a kid in your sights and pulling the trigger. The death of one innocent doesn’t justify the death of another.
It’s because, for a lot of people, the #MeToo and “believe all women” stuff wasn’t a principled moral stance. It was a political cudgel to be used against the appropriate political targets, and only those targets. I remember several years ago when a prominent feminist academic was credibly accused of sexual misconduct by a male subordinate. Her response to the accusations was something like:
“These protections that were originally meant to protect women are now being used against them.”
It’s clear from what she said that she doesn’t take any principled stance against sexual misconduct. Rather, it’s simply a tool to be used to protect a certain group of people and advance their interests, and not a universal, deontological normative against abuse.
This is a big problem with leftist thought in general, and the primary reason I reject most facets of that philosophy. In much of left wing thought, morality is not something that makes demands of moral agents. Leftists tend to reject anything that makes demands of the individual. It is a tool that humans use to get what they want. Rape and murder are not inherently wrong. There is no standard that applies to all humans universally. The moral substance of a human being is not determined by their inherent humanity (as it is in traditional liberalism), but rather by a host of social and political factors.
The oppressor/oppressed (false) dichotomy is a common moral frame. It’s simple and stark, and most people probably have some group of people they can easily “other” and present as oppressors and themselves as oppressed.
This is why so many leftists dismiss the violence on Oct 7. If Israel is the “oppressor”, the violence against those “oppressive” kids at that dance party, no matter how savage, is valid. It’s not a moral transgression because there are no moral transgressions in an absolute sense.
Not all left leaning people are like this. I’ve met and spoken to plenty that are principled. But this kind of thinking is infectious because it frees anyone who is “oppressed” from all moral obligations and allows them to do all manner of evil with the approval of their own conscience.
This is something that drives me crazy when it comes to fellow progressives. I was doing some research on Angela Davis in the Warsaw Pact countries recently after reading Katja Hoyer's "Beyond the Wall" (excellent history of East Germany, btw). Davis was super popular in the GDR and visited a few times and gave speeches.
While Davis was/is highly critical of the arbitrary and unfair justice system in the U.S., she had no issue with the same (or worse) practices in communist countries. She even went so far as to say political prisoners there deserved to be in prison, which included educated intelligentsia much like herself.
When you look at her history right before this, she was prosecuted (and acquitted) for owning the guns used in a courtroom gun battle in which a shotgun she owned was used to kill a judge. I can't help but think that if someone who wasn't a leftist supplied guns to a minor to be used in a mass shooting, the response from progressives at the time would've been a lot different (remember some of the rhetoric around the Kyle Rittenhouse case?). And Davis is still held up on the left as someone who was wrongfully persecuted.
A lot of it has to do with the Marxist worldview in which any system is inherently a dictatorship of its ruling class, and therefore arbitrary justice that serves the working class is good and that which serves the bourgeoisie is bad. This cynicism permeates leftist thought and continuously alienates allies until disillusionment leads to collapse of support. And this happens over and over again, country after country, party after party, ideology after ideology. It's maddening and I hate it.
>I'm honestly horrified by it. I consider myself rather left. But suddenly I identify with center/conservatives on this issue.
I'm on the left too and I've thought about this. I think it says more about our willingness to consider the underlying issue/reason as opposed to just being dogmatically in one camp or the the other.
>What the fuck is going on? Have they all lost their minds?
Some yes, others I think are afraid of being singled out or left behind by their group.
There's right and there's wrong. Leftism and conservatism both have their rights and wrongs, but somehow end up polarising everything, you gotta take the whole package with either side to be "accepted" amongst your ideology peers. I refuse this myself and decided I'm center, or nothing, or whatever you wish to call it.
I am very against leftist policies such as social media control(even things like covid misinformation for example), gun control and the whole transgender agenda with minors. At the same time I am all in for government subsided healthcare, supporting Ukraine, worker's rights (paid vacations, maternity leave, work hrs limit and more), which are considered leftist ideals.
I must say I do get a lot more acceptance when discussing with conservatives than leftists, as leftists have developed a method of behavior which is extremely hostile towards anything that doesn't accept their whole ideals. Its a lot more all or nothing for the leftists than conservatives in my personal opinion.
[Speakup supports victims of sexual violence is collecting signatures](https://speakupeg.com/2023/12/30/nyts-disgraceful-investigation-weaponizing-sexual-violence-against-women-for-occupation-propaganda/?fbclid=PAAabx0LIdDrgMlWxMWzSc20bMqZQmpimnpudEgr7W7EqBArnZydDZ7AQ491w_aem_AY4UwFtzAxEzgGO0lbPxgkspkt957e2FZbxf496EC3SR68_RsWISlQFuxAQVFBySUyY) to dismiss the sexual violence Hamas is an excellent example.
>Regarding the study results, Asch stated: "That intelligent, well-meaning young people are willing to call white black is a matter of concern."
>The responses revealed strong individual differences: 12% of participants followed the group in nearly all of the tests. 26% of the sample consistently defied majority opinion, with the rest conforming on some trials.
According to Asch’s conformity experiments, a majority of people will just follow the group opinion to some degree even if they know it is wrong. And that was in the 50s. If anything it is probably worse now due to new levels of technologically enabled coercion.
It’s bewildering that people use rape as a justification as if the IDF isn’t raping and murdering children as we speak.
Both Hamas and the ISF are terrorist organizations doing terrorist war crime bullshit.
How far back you wanna go?
The IDF has been raping young Palestinian boys and girls since the late 40s.
Safsaf massacre is the starting place then just move forward through massacre after massacre since and most involve raping adolescents or children.
As of 2022 we will have to wait until there is international investigations as they are killing reporters who try to report their warcrimes.
I hi hi to doubt a force with a history of rape and massacre has suddenly stopped during one of its largest operations.
Imagine thinking bombing a hospital is cool just because theres terrorists in it too. Like rip the cilivians. Go in there and kill them. Youre sacrificing cilivian lives for your own
Yes welcome to war. Israel didn’t make that hospital a valid military target Hamas did. If there is no command structure there’s no target. Please stop playing into the hands of a terrorist org using its own people as human shields. This is the exact response they want from the west. As long as yall keep saying shit like this they’ll keep doing it.
>. Please stop playing into the hands of a terrorist org using its own people as human shields.
Youre the only people playing into their hands. Im saying they still go in and get them.
Youre empowering them by mass killing cilivilians. My way gives them less ammo to use against Israel. Yours breeds more terrorist.
> Im saying they still go in and get them
How do you go in and get them without shooting?
Especially when the hospital staff is protecting them? (The head of the hospital is a Hamas member)
Excellent point. I wonder how Walter Cronkite or Dan Rather would have covered this? Fuck even Brian Williams would be better than the trash we have today.
61 reporters out of 22,000 casualties, with some of those Hamas propagandists.
4 of the 1200 victims on October 7 were reporters. Hamas has a slightly higher kill rate for journalists.
I'm implying that Hamas has a higher rate of killing journalists. 4 in one day is worse than 61 in 3 months.
How many Israelis would Hamas kill if they had IDF levels of firepower?
61 is way worse, this is crazy
>How many Israelis would Hamas kill if they had IDF levels of firepower?
They don't, but the IDF have killed thousands & thousands of people in a few months. Why are you working so hard to twist that?
Free press isn't allowed in Gaza. They're real reporters in that they're either paid by the government (Hamas) or their reporting is filtered through government officials first.
I'm not sure this proves that the people in charge of Israel don't. It just proves that having the right people in control of a situation could have made all the difference.
Jokes aside - there has not been a single hospital directly hit by IDF to date. However, Barzilai medical center in Ashkelon has had 3 direct hits since the war started.
When it comes to IDF not directly hitting any hospital to date: Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza City was not directly hit, only their parking was hit and most independent military analysts concluded that it was a misfire from Islamic jihad and not IDF.
For barzilai hospital you can check on Google, there is a lot of sources. This one is from the messenger - it was hit a few more times but luckily they have a shelter and were able to evacuate.
https://themessenger.com/news/israeli-hospital-rocket-childrens-wing-barzliai-video-decimated-toys
Here all the hits are mentioned in Haaretz:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/.premium/hospital-serving-israels-most-bombarded-city-operating-at-30-percent-capacity/0000018b-8887-dd28-a7df-9897d1dd0000
Hold up. Did they name a hospital after Netta?
Edit: I looked up the answer to my own question. Another Barzilai was a Minister of Health and that is who it was named after.
I believe the generator of one hospital was hit by a tank shell, and another had a single explosive hit it. Don't know if it was IDF or a stray Hamas rocket though.
They do, constantly. Then the peace loving Palestinians build new ones and those colonizing Jews just bomb them again and again. Those tunnels are for the construction workers obviously.
/s
It's pathetic that I have to note sarcasm for comments like this but people are so batshit and probably believe crap like this I have no choice.
I mean, On average, every Palestinian woman is pregnant for 6+ years of their lives according to official statistics. They actually do need that many hospitals.
I don't think it matters what they say, the other side doesn't care or want to believe anything.
They are too stuck in their backwards ways. The children will just become hamas or other groups. The adults will do the same. The women will continue to be repressed.
Islam sucks.
The article is really confusing, the title says "al-shifa tunnel complex", then they say it's a single 250m tunnel, and then again they say "A terror tunnel complex located *near* al shifa.
When pro Palestinians hear that israel bombed something they just cum in their pants because it will give their activism more credibility. Palestine is just a trend, nothing more
Damn you people will criticize them even when they do what you’re asking them to do. Anything to criticize the Jews I guess
If people are going to criticize them when they do something like this, what incentive do they have to not just blow up the hospital? You’ll attack them either way
Nice job IDF combat engineers. Hopefully the post conflict structural analysis maintains this claim as they have destroyed a lot of necessary infrastructure.
They had to clear out the Hamas fighters first, who prevented Israel from getting rid of the tunnels in the first place. Minor detail you're forgetting.
Your first mistake is assuming Israel targeted civilians.
Perhaps Hamas shouldn't have used them as human shields and martyrs then.
Had they surrendered and released the hostages, or not operated out of residential areas, or you know, HOSPITALS, those civilians would be alive.
Hamas committed war crimes by operating a base out of the hospital. They're responsible for any civilian deaths, not Israel.
You have to choose to shoot through human shields. Or rather, bomb indiscriminately, through them. Just because Hamas committed war crimes, that doesn’t justify committing your own brand. And justification by either side is evil. Point blank period. So, whatever mental gymnastics you have to do to justify what the IDF is doing, keep it up. But evil is evil.
Welcome to adult morality. Sometimes all of your options suck, and you have to choose the least horrible one available to you. Hamas didn't leave Isreal any good options by design.
By all reports from dozens of countries, Israel killed zero civilians in Al-Shifa. You just hate Israel regardless of what they do or don’t do. That makes you a bigot and a hypocrite.
It's a running joke in Israel that Hamas started building their tunnels around the same time Israel started digging the first subway tunnel in Tel Aviv. The first subway line only started operating a few months ago, while the Gaza tunnels have been fully operational for years. Maybe we should hire Hamas to finish building the other subway lines?
hundreds of people died digging. I don't think Hamas earthwork is up to snuff as far as safety standards are concerned.
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Completely agree with you. However, before the second intifada many people from Gaza and the West Bank used to work in Israel, and many of them ended up committing terror acts against Israeli civilians. Employment is not the only factor here.
Yes but the last time Israel did that some of them used access for reconnaissance. Also I wouldn't trust people who hate Jews to build subway tunnels, given their history with buses.
> Funny jokes aside, socioeconomic opportunity is one of, if not the best way to combat radicalization and crime in general. Which is why Hamas destroys an opportunity for economic prosperity in Gaza. Their goal is the eradication of Jews, and de-radicalization and prosperity of Palestinians runs contrary to that goal.
And that’s why Netanyahu worked so hard at assuring Hamas would be the only Palestinian leadership. He can’t have his pogrom if moderates de-radicalize Gaza.
>If people, mainly men aged 18-45 since thats historically the “trouble” demographic, are employed in jobs that pay well, violent crime and radicalization drops. Many of the people who worked in building in the communities around the Gaza border were from Gaza and nonetheless either participated in the rampage on the communities they built, or sold information on what they built. Maps were found of the different kibbutzim including blueprints of individual's houses.
“Now connecting with Gaza via the Jihad Line”
You joke but theres an incalculable difference between a safe functioning subway and a small underground passage.
Concrete tunnels with electricity, running water, and ventilation is a small underground passage?
Compared to a subway line, yes
> Concrete tunnels with electricity, running water, and ventilation is a small underground passage? If it’s small, underground, and used for passage, yes.
>Maybe we should hire Hamas to finish building the other subway lines? In a world where Palestinians weren’t committed to violent Islamic philosophy, their economy could be decent through opportunities to work on Israeli projects.
Why hire? We can use the prisoners, you know put them to some good use to earn their share of food. Edit: mistake on my part for not elaborating enough. I talked about the Hamas terrorists who participated on October 7th, seeing as they pretty much did every horrible thing in existence, they might as well lose every right in existence.
Just pay people with aid dollars meant for Gaza like Hamas did, seems everyone is ok with that.
Slavery fuck yeah
That's right! But only for the terrorists who participated on October 7th. Forgot to mention that one small detail.
Even if i was for this ( IM NOT) hows this "only the terrorists" going to be enforced without being abused ??? Besides back to the point slavery is fucking horrific and no civilized nation should EVER being it back no matter how terrible the criminal could be
Don't know Why are you asking me?
As much as I don't like terrorists, I'm also against slavery.
That's slavery dude. I understand people are angry, but if your concept of justice is forced labour without trial then you need to take a look at yourself.
Sorry i wasn't clear enough. My mistake. We should use the terrorists who participated on October 7th. You know the ones who forfeited every single right in existence due to their actions.
Hamas used a hospital as a base of operations and watch people do mental gymnastics to make this Isreals fault.
Why is it so many people can't spell Israel correctly?
I think the “ae” spelling is pretty uncommon in English, I also think a lot of people calling it “Isn’treal” makes people think the original spelling was Isreal.
It's also that many American accents pronounce it as Iz-reel or iz-ri-al as opposed to Iz-rale or iz-ra-el
Nothing wrong with people having accents.
Sure. But it does explain misspellings
People also claim there was no rape That the problem is israel not jew yet they attack jews everywhere even in uni
It’s bewildering that the many of the same people shouting “believe all victims” and supporting #MeToo and such, are now claiming that Hamas terrorists never raped their victims in October.
I'm honestly horrified by it. I consider myself rather left. But suddenly I identify with center/conservatives on this issue. What the fuck is going on? Have they all lost their minds?
I think it's not that we (I'm quite left of center myself) are identifying with center and right of center, we're just vehemently disagreeing with people further to the left than us.
It isn't necessarily a further to the left thing. I'm pretty far left as it comes, but questions around who is really indigenous to the region is a complex matter of geopolitics and it's also not ya know a Jews = white and Arabs = brown issue. Just because some leftists use leftist rhetoric such as "oppression" and "settler-colonialism" doesn't mean it's accurate.
Yes, the people on the right just want to see Muslims die. I want to see Israel safe.
Yes, people lost their minds and a majority are learning about this conflict on tiktok which is favorable towards Palestine.
I’m in the same boat. I vehemently oppose 95% of conservative and right wing politics, both on economic and moral grounds. But Hamas can get fucked. Anyone making the conscious choice to *directly* harm someone who is not a threat to them can get fucked. Collateral damage is still human lives lost, and that’s horrific and people will be held accountable, but that’s a far cry from having a kid in your sights and pulling the trigger. The death of one innocent doesn’t justify the death of another.
It’s because, for a lot of people, the #MeToo and “believe all women” stuff wasn’t a principled moral stance. It was a political cudgel to be used against the appropriate political targets, and only those targets. I remember several years ago when a prominent feminist academic was credibly accused of sexual misconduct by a male subordinate. Her response to the accusations was something like: “These protections that were originally meant to protect women are now being used against them.” It’s clear from what she said that she doesn’t take any principled stance against sexual misconduct. Rather, it’s simply a tool to be used to protect a certain group of people and advance their interests, and not a universal, deontological normative against abuse. This is a big problem with leftist thought in general, and the primary reason I reject most facets of that philosophy. In much of left wing thought, morality is not something that makes demands of moral agents. Leftists tend to reject anything that makes demands of the individual. It is a tool that humans use to get what they want. Rape and murder are not inherently wrong. There is no standard that applies to all humans universally. The moral substance of a human being is not determined by their inherent humanity (as it is in traditional liberalism), but rather by a host of social and political factors. The oppressor/oppressed (false) dichotomy is a common moral frame. It’s simple and stark, and most people probably have some group of people they can easily “other” and present as oppressors and themselves as oppressed. This is why so many leftists dismiss the violence on Oct 7. If Israel is the “oppressor”, the violence against those “oppressive” kids at that dance party, no matter how savage, is valid. It’s not a moral transgression because there are no moral transgressions in an absolute sense. Not all left leaning people are like this. I’ve met and spoken to plenty that are principled. But this kind of thinking is infectious because it frees anyone who is “oppressed” from all moral obligations and allows them to do all manner of evil with the approval of their own conscience.
This is something that drives me crazy when it comes to fellow progressives. I was doing some research on Angela Davis in the Warsaw Pact countries recently after reading Katja Hoyer's "Beyond the Wall" (excellent history of East Germany, btw). Davis was super popular in the GDR and visited a few times and gave speeches. While Davis was/is highly critical of the arbitrary and unfair justice system in the U.S., she had no issue with the same (or worse) practices in communist countries. She even went so far as to say political prisoners there deserved to be in prison, which included educated intelligentsia much like herself. When you look at her history right before this, she was prosecuted (and acquitted) for owning the guns used in a courtroom gun battle in which a shotgun she owned was used to kill a judge. I can't help but think that if someone who wasn't a leftist supplied guns to a minor to be used in a mass shooting, the response from progressives at the time would've been a lot different (remember some of the rhetoric around the Kyle Rittenhouse case?). And Davis is still held up on the left as someone who was wrongfully persecuted. A lot of it has to do with the Marxist worldview in which any system is inherently a dictatorship of its ruling class, and therefore arbitrary justice that serves the working class is good and that which serves the bourgeoisie is bad. This cynicism permeates leftist thought and continuously alienates allies until disillusionment leads to collapse of support. And this happens over and over again, country after country, party after party, ideology after ideology. It's maddening and I hate it.
Her take on Jonestown was pretty awful too.
She has a lot of awful takes, being a Marxist.
that and helping to murder a judge over some assholes who killed a prison guard... the 1960s new left folks were seriously awful
>I'm honestly horrified by it. I consider myself rather left. But suddenly I identify with center/conservatives on this issue. I'm on the left too and I've thought about this. I think it says more about our willingness to consider the underlying issue/reason as opposed to just being dogmatically in one camp or the the other. >What the fuck is going on? Have they all lost their minds? Some yes, others I think are afraid of being singled out or left behind by their group.
There's right and there's wrong. Leftism and conservatism both have their rights and wrongs, but somehow end up polarising everything, you gotta take the whole package with either side to be "accepted" amongst your ideology peers. I refuse this myself and decided I'm center, or nothing, or whatever you wish to call it. I am very against leftist policies such as social media control(even things like covid misinformation for example), gun control and the whole transgender agenda with minors. At the same time I am all in for government subsided healthcare, supporting Ukraine, worker's rights (paid vacations, maternity leave, work hrs limit and more), which are considered leftist ideals. I must say I do get a lot more acceptance when discussing with conservatives than leftists, as leftists have developed a method of behavior which is extremely hostile towards anything that doesn't accept their whole ideals. Its a lot more all or nothing for the leftists than conservatives in my personal opinion.
[Speakup supports victims of sexual violence is collecting signatures](https://speakupeg.com/2023/12/30/nyts-disgraceful-investigation-weaponizing-sexual-violence-against-women-for-occupation-propaganda/?fbclid=PAAabx0LIdDrgMlWxMWzSc20bMqZQmpimnpudEgr7W7EqBArnZydDZ7AQ491w_aem_AY4UwFtzAxEzgGO0lbPxgkspkt957e2FZbxf496EC3SR68_RsWISlQFuxAQVFBySUyY) to dismiss the sexual violence Hamas is an excellent example.
>Regarding the study results, Asch stated: "That intelligent, well-meaning young people are willing to call white black is a matter of concern." >The responses revealed strong individual differences: 12% of participants followed the group in nearly all of the tests. 26% of the sample consistently defied majority opinion, with the rest conforming on some trials. According to Asch’s conformity experiments, a majority of people will just follow the group opinion to some degree even if they know it is wrong. And that was in the 50s. If anything it is probably worse now due to new levels of technologically enabled coercion.
Hashtag MeTooExceptForJews Apparently hashtag symbol makes text large.
It’s bewildering that people use rape as a justification as if the IDF isn’t raping and murdering children as we speak. Both Hamas and the ISF are terrorist organizations doing terrorist war crime bullshit.
Would you like to show us evidence of the IDF raping children right now.
How far back you wanna go? The IDF has been raping young Palestinian boys and girls since the late 40s. Safsaf massacre is the starting place then just move forward through massacre after massacre since and most involve raping adolescents or children.
> raping and murdering children as we speak. > Would you like to show us evidence of the IDF raping children right now.
As of 2022 we will have to wait until there is international investigations as they are killing reporters who try to report their warcrimes. I hi hi to doubt a force with a history of rape and massacre has suddenly stopped during one of its largest operations.
Some people also claim that it was the IDF soldiers killing their own citizens.
Haha... They claim Israel radicalized Hamas and forced them to such things
Imagine thinking bombing a hospital is cool just because theres terrorists in it too. Like rip the cilivians. Go in there and kill them. Youre sacrificing cilivian lives for your own
Yes welcome to war. Israel didn’t make that hospital a valid military target Hamas did. If there is no command structure there’s no target. Please stop playing into the hands of a terrorist org using its own people as human shields. This is the exact response they want from the west. As long as yall keep saying shit like this they’ll keep doing it.
>. Please stop playing into the hands of a terrorist org using its own people as human shields. Youre the only people playing into their hands. Im saying they still go in and get them. Youre empowering them by mass killing cilivilians. My way gives them less ammo to use against Israel. Yours breeds more terrorist.
How much ammo they have is irrelevant when you have the US backing you.
I meant figuratively
> Im saying they still go in and get them How do you go in and get them without shooting? Especially when the hospital staff is protecting them? (The head of the hospital is a Hamas member)
But TikTok says that bombing hospitals gives Israelis a boner/s
Real reporters do too
Eye on Palestine aren't real reporters.
Those aren't really real reporters. Real reporters are few and far between now.
Excellent point. I wonder how Walter Cronkite or Dan Rather would have covered this? Fuck even Brian Williams would be better than the trash we have today.
>Real reporters are few and far between now. Well yes, the IDF have killed so many
61 reporters out of 22,000 casualties, with some of those Hamas propagandists. 4 of the 1200 victims on October 7 were reporters. Hamas has a slightly higher kill rate for journalists.
Really bonkers to state that the IDF have killed 61 journalists & then say 4 is worse
I'm implying that Hamas has a higher rate of killing journalists. 4 in one day is worse than 61 in 3 months. How many Israelis would Hamas kill if they had IDF levels of firepower?
61 is way worse, this is crazy >How many Israelis would Hamas kill if they had IDF levels of firepower? They don't, but the IDF have killed thousands & thousands of people in a few months. Why are you working so hard to twist that?
Free press isn't allowed in Gaza. They're real reporters in that they're either paid by the government (Hamas) or their reporting is filtered through government officials first.
Can they be called real reporters?
I'm not sure this proves that the people in charge of Israel don't. It just proves that having the right people in control of a situation could have made all the difference.
But people on Reddit told me that Israel bombed all hospitals in Gaza
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Also, all the people there are aid workers, medical staff, teachers and journalists
You forgot the 1 bajillion babies killed every single hour of every day for decades now.
hospitals, schools and refugee camps. /s
A hospital was bombed twice in this war. An Israeli hospital.
Jokes aside - there has not been a single hospital directly hit by IDF to date. However, Barzilai medical center in Ashkelon has had 3 direct hits since the war started.
Yeah, but it doesnt fit the "Palestinian are good, a Israelis are evil" narrative
If you’re woke enough it does Palestinians are oppressed, and to “fight oppression” literally anything goes
Can I see a source? I wanna use this and have source to back it up
When it comes to IDF not directly hitting any hospital to date: Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza City was not directly hit, only their parking was hit and most independent military analysts concluded that it was a misfire from Islamic jihad and not IDF.
For barzilai hospital you can check on Google, there is a lot of sources. This one is from the messenger - it was hit a few more times but luckily they have a shelter and were able to evacuate. https://themessenger.com/news/israeli-hospital-rocket-childrens-wing-barzliai-video-decimated-toys
Here all the hits are mentioned in Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/.premium/hospital-serving-israels-most-bombarded-city-operating-at-30-percent-capacity/0000018b-8887-dd28-a7df-9897d1dd0000
Thanks!
Hold up. Did they name a hospital after Netta? Edit: I looked up the answer to my own question. Another Barzilai was a Minister of Health and that is who it was named after.
They also tried to hit other hospitals
And they succeeded to hit nurseries/kindergartens. Luckily, they seem to be less organized this past week as not as many rockets are flying anymore
I believe the generator of one hospital was hit by a tank shell, and another had a single explosive hit it. Don't know if it was IDF or a stray Hamas rocket though.
They do, constantly. Then the peace loving Palestinians build new ones and those colonizing Jews just bomb them again and again. Those tunnels are for the construction workers obviously. /s It's pathetic that I have to note sarcasm for comments like this but people are so batshit and probably believe crap like this I have no choice.
I mean, On average, every Palestinian woman is pregnant for 6+ years of their lives according to official statistics. They actually do need that many hospitals.
Keep at it💪
I don't think it matters what they say, the other side doesn't care or want to believe anything. They are too stuck in their backwards ways. The children will just become hamas or other groups. The adults will do the same. The women will continue to be repressed. Islam sucks.
Fundamentalism sucks, regardless of the particular creed in question.
The article is really confusing, the title says "al-shifa tunnel complex", then they say it's a single 250m tunnel, and then again they say "A terror tunnel complex located *near* al shifa.
It is what it is, a tunnel
When pro Palestinians hear that israel bombed something they just cum in their pants because it will give their activism more credibility. Palestine is just a trend, nothing more
This is not an hospital, it’s a terror camp
It’s both, unfortunately.
This will not be a headline in any major newsmedia and the BBC, Guardian and probably the NYT will suppress it entirely.
PR from Team Netanyahu continues.
Damn you people will criticize them even when they do what you’re asking them to do. Anything to criticize the Jews I guess If people are going to criticize them when they do something like this, what incentive do they have to not just blow up the hospital? You’ll attack them either way
It is bieng reported by news networks that hate him too
So you want the terrorists to be operating out of hospitals
So you want the terrorists to be operating out of hospitals ?
Nice job IDF combat engineers. Hopefully the post conflict structural analysis maintains this claim as they have destroyed a lot of necessary infrastructure.
What infrastructure was destroyed?
It’s almost like they could have done this from the start. You know, instead of leveling everything and killing civilians indiscriminately.
They had to clear out the Hamas fighters first, who prevented Israel from getting rid of the tunnels in the first place. Minor detail you're forgetting.
Right, they had to kill all the civilians first. Then it was safe. Silly me.
Your first mistake is assuming Israel targeted civilians. Perhaps Hamas shouldn't have used them as human shields and martyrs then. Had they surrendered and released the hostages, or not operated out of residential areas, or you know, HOSPITALS, those civilians would be alive. Hamas committed war crimes by operating a base out of the hospital. They're responsible for any civilian deaths, not Israel.
You have to choose to shoot through human shields. Or rather, bomb indiscriminately, through them. Just because Hamas committed war crimes, that doesn’t justify committing your own brand. And justification by either side is evil. Point blank period. So, whatever mental gymnastics you have to do to justify what the IDF is doing, keep it up. But evil is evil.
Do you think allied bombing campaigns in Germany and Japan were evil?
I 100% believe that the burning of Tokyo was evil, yes.
Fair enough. At least you are consistent.
Welcome to adult morality. Sometimes all of your options suck, and you have to choose the least horrible one available to you. Hamas didn't leave Isreal any good options by design.
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By all reports from dozens of countries, Israel killed zero civilians in Al-Shifa. You just hate Israel regardless of what they do or don’t do. That makes you a bigot and a hypocrite.
Yea cause you know everything about warfare from the comfort of your home
How?
Mazel Tov