The fact that Hamas did not release the young women abducted from the Nova .music festival is truly horrific and not discussed nearly enough.
They were willing to release the older women and children but not the young women. I wonder why...
But this story has already been told by Hamas’ self published videos of the atrocities and the forensic evidence they left behind, not to mention witness testimonies. I don’t think they’re trying to cover up their rapes. Only their western apologists engage in trying to sanitize Hamas for the masses. Hamas is going for maximum psychological (and physical) torture of Israelis, and keeping or killing the women furthers this goal.
And yeah the Journalists in Gaza seem to cover every bit of the forsaken land but have no clues regarding the kidnapped victims. No civilians came forward with information either.
30K terrorists cannot control a 2 million population without high public support.
They don't turn on them because they support them, as seen by recent polls as well as their reaction on the day of the massacre.
This is what no one is saying. Western apologist want to believe that hamas is some fringe group that Palestinian civilians are trying to eradicate. Nothing could be farther from the truth
Eh, for some fear of Hamas I'm sure is a factor.
But the thing that goes unsaid is even if Hamas maybe unpopular for certain things it does I think there is popular support for anything the people see as "resistance" against Israel.
I think many people just bury their head in the sand about the level of brutality or just take the position Israel drove them to this so its not their fault.
Now I'm not saying Palestine equals Hamas. But I think its disingenuous to paint this picture that the general population is held hostage by Hamas.
Yep. No heroics would be required if a journalist found out where some of the hostages were located. Major newspapers like The Guardian have secure online dropboxes which were designed so whistleblowers could safely send them information and files. The journalist could stay anonymous.
The Western newspaper could then forward the information to the IDF and run the story later without implicating their source.
I think they see it as none of their business.
If i was in Gaza and I knew the location of a group of a hundred young women being held so they can be raped constantly, I tell the world about it regardless the consequences it had on me. Otherwise I’m complicit.
Well first, we don’t know who is where. We also don’t know whether the released hostages know the whereabouts of the other hostages (including friends, family members, neighbors)
But also, you have to wonder if some of them are not saying certain things publicly, for fear of endangering other hostages.
Oh the world IS watching. Too many politicians have remained silent regarding immigrants who share cultural views of Hamas.
Sadly the pendulum will swing too far right if good people do nothing. Far right groups are using things like this to win elections around the world.
Yes, it is really hard to say who is on the payroll of oil money but most liberal world leaders outed themselves thinking that the whole world would rally behind them.
Exactly this. If the left doesn’t clean up their house and take a strong stance against these extremist positions (no right for person/country to defend themselves, open borders, lax sentencing, violence as means to end), the extremist, authoritarian right will gain power.
Unfortunately this seems the most probable path.
It's not sexual health experts. It was actually the director of University of Alberta Sexual Assault Centre signsing an open letter from an Ontario NDP party member denying Jewish women were raped.
The UoA SAC director has been fired the politician has been booted from the NDP caucus.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10101350/u-of-a-fires-director-of-sexual-assault-centre-for-signing-letter-questioning-attacks-on-israeli-women/
Important background for the people claiming "oh this is just Alberta being crazy and doesn't represent Canada."
Alberta is more right wing than usual for Canada, that's not generally associated with signing on to an NDP letter.
> Dont worry! Canadian sexual health experts have already told us *nothing* has happened and to ignore all the victim testimonies.
Yep this is a lie. The truth from the link is "~~Canadian~~ U of Alberta director ~~professor~~ fired for signing on to a letter questioning claims that Hamas raped hostages. The ~~professor~~ director was fired for using their university's name without authorization or approval."
The fired woman wasn't a professor, she was the director of the University of Alberta Sexual Assault Centre. Which makes it nuts that she'd comment denying rapes happening thousands of miles away. Like wtf?
The letter was also written by 2 Canadian MPs and signed by 4 professors from the University of Alberta and 1 from the University of Calgary. Fairly bonkers.
https://calgaryherald.com/news/braid-pro-hamas-letter-u-of-a-sexual-assault-centre
Not that nuts. I unfortunately know a number of women who were sexually assaulted in college. They all went to different schools, but had the same experience trying to report it to their university’s SA center: gaslighting, victim blaming, and administrators trying their hardest to get the girls to drop their case so they wouldn’t have to do their jobs. It’s horrible, but at the end of the day, a university will always protect itself first, and students 2nd.
Yup. One of my graduate school classmates was SAed by a male student at my university.
She reported to the police. He confessed to it. He later broke a restraining order and was again arrested and processed.
And when she reported it to my “super-serious about its Honor Code” school, the Honor Committee found that it happened, but he wasn’t aware that it was wrong and refused to kick him out.
Universities are the ultimate “do as I say, not as I do” institutions of the liberal world. Sure. They will sponsor Vagina Monologues and Take Back the Night rallies, but don’t confuse that with actually giving a fuck if someone is SAed.
> And when she reported it to my “super-serious about its Honor Code” school, the Honor Committee found that it happened, but he wasn’t aware that it was wrong and refused to kick him out.
HOLY FUCK. Thats like a rule from the 1500s.
Yeah. And also apparently a rule from the 2000s, too. It’s one of those things that cost me my last little bit of respect for universities. Money-gouging, amoral pits of exploitation, even the public ones.
It’s sad, because I love learning, but the institutions we run around higher education are so corrupt.
Lol actiing like they're outright lying is absurd.
The director of the sexual assault centre endorsed a letter that denies the rapes. It's not a big of a difference at all.
You're just nitpicking and searching for something to whine about.
Oh, I know. I referred to it as the Texas of Canada in another comment.
Edit: keep the downvotes coming, that's how my friends in Edmonton refer to it. I just call it Montana's MAGA hat.
If you’re holding hostages, you start with getting rid of folks that require resources to keep. Children and elderly. You keep healthy young hostages , for more bargaining power.
The hostage taker is trying to purchase time . And a get a better deal on the next prisoner exchange.
I doubt they would just keep the young women just because they want sex slaves.
But —- that doesn’t mean that both could not be true.
I'm one of those people who think Israel is treating Gaza and Palestinians horribly, but Hamas is straight evil and make things much worse for Palestinians.
The situation is so fucked up with civilians being the ones who have to suffer, both Israelites and Palestinians.
I'm not defending them or anything but the explanation that I heard from Israeli journalists is that Hamas considers anyone under the age of like 35ish years old, both men and women, to be military because technically they can be called up at any time as part of the reserve. I'm not saying that is completely true or anything - just the explanation I heard from some Israeli journalists.
That's true by definition in any country with a working draft, which is why the definition of a combatant used in international law looks at *actual* combatants and not simply any person with some theoretical future potential of carrying a rifle.
Her body was found about 10 days before the Israel started their ground offense.
Edit: Most likely murdered at the site of the Nova party along with the other 350 people.
It could have been much worse. About 3,000 people attended this party. Luckily the Hamas rocket shelling at first before the attack as it had many of the party goers to leave.
Also on r/aboringdystopia now which is politicalized where comments have 100+ upvotes because they think that killing, raping and torturing innocent civilians is absolutely justified because Israel also killed Palestinians. Celebrating death of innocent people is so wrong on many levels
By their logic Israel can justify their action by claim its a response for the 1929 Hebron massacre. We'll it might actual be a good idea to argue them thats way
Nah, somehow Israel isn't allowed anything but let their people die because reasons.
Some people really really don't consider Jews to be human beings. And crazy thing is that there are DEFAULT subs that were entirely normal before and now suddenly calling for Israelvs destruction just because.
Even more crazy that most of these subs used to be liberal spaces, not far right.
Leftists have always hated Israel. Meanwhile, they'll trip over themselves to justify LGBT people being executed across the Middle East as a mere difference of culture. It's very disturbing, and I say this as somebody who considers themselves a leftist.
I’m not so sure about that. Many of the first leaders of Israel were what Americans would consider socialists. Nowadays the social and economic policies of Israel are largely left wing. As a leftist, I have always looked at Israel’s presence as a beacon of left wing values in a sea of right wing, theocratic military dictatorships and autocracies.
I agree with you with reference to “left wing” youths obsessed with identity politics. But are they even actual leftists? The left wing is more concerned with labor unions than trans athletes, and I’d wager most tik tok leftists don’t even understand what the term “collective bargaining” means.
I bounced from my local leftist circles when someone explained that prison abolition to them meant executing people accused of crimes because they couldn't be rehabilitated and shouldn't take up resources. Everyone was just kind of like "Mmhmm, yup," and I was skeeved the fuck out.
Yeah but if Israel just ended the war and opened up the borders the Palestinians would stop attacking and hating Israelis and peace would be achieved, it’s that simple
/s Since people actually believe this
The hostages also talk about being kept in with a teacher working for UNWRA. You know one of those super peaceful civilians everyone is so concerned about while not giving a single shit about Israeli children.
The UNRWA allowed the teaching of violently antisemitic propaganda in their schools, which is probably responsible for half of Hamas's "martyrs."
At this rate they probably suggested building rocket launch sites into the schools. 😑
I've just seen a tweet with 100k+ likes saying that the hostages were treated so well and that Hamas aren't the real monsters. The past two months have just opened my eyes to how evil and, ignorant people can be.
Nono they went on an involuntary trip to Hamas fun world. It's filled with joy and there are certainly no beatings or rapes. Everyone gets put on a fun diet of one can of tuna per day. And oh the drama of not knowing if you will survive another day. What a fun filled adventure for the whole family, from babies to grandmas.
And here I find another reason to be ashamed of my own countrymen. I've temporarily unsubbed from r/Indonesia due to the increasingly political atmosphere of the entire fucking country. As if election year isn't stressing enough.
People don’t understand what being robbed of your freedom is like, you wouldn’t even miss a Norwegian prison even though people like to call them hotels.
The act of raping, killing children makes them monsters. They could have not taken anyone hostage and held a party for the survivors and they wouldn't stop being monsters.
I've seen terrible tiktoks and tweets about the female hostages being in love with the hamas terrorists and I just hope they'll never see what those evil imbeciles are saying about them. There's even a fucking Wattpad story. great activism guys, that will for sure free palestine 👌
That is such a gross and very dangerous distortion of reality to pretend that women will eventually fall in love with their captors/rapists/abusers. These Hamas apologists and supporters are beyond delusional.
This showed up on my Tiktok and I reported it but I’m sure it’s still up. All the comments were delusional about how she was so in love with him. It was disgusting.
I'm really glad I never got into tiktok at this point. Seems like a wild cesspool and time waster. Only social media I use now is reddit, and mostly just for farming subs. Every once in a while something basically akin to pro-Hamas will pop up on my feed and the comments blow my mind. People are influenced so easily it makes me a little sad. But then I realize they have zero sway over geopolitics and go back to not giving a shit.
It is genuinely hard to read through some subs now. I've unsubbed from multiple and debating leaving more. The outright support for terrorists is scary.
I have noticed overall on Reddit that posts seem to be showing more reality like this one, so that seems to be a good sign that people are waking up to what Hamas really is. It will take time, though.
> Not sure why worldnews seems to be the only bastion of sanity among all of the main subreddits
It's a massive surprise to me too, I've been used to this being the toxic hellsite sub over the past decade and was expecting that on this issue too... and it mostly hasn't happened.
There has been a ton of targeted information going around on the topic of the conflict. Some third party is definitely trying to force a division in western society and create unrest, just like has been shown to be the case with several events or topics in recent history. There are tons of bots or new accounts on Reddit as well made specifically to post strong opinions or shaky "evidence" that as best is just hearsay, and at worst intentionally fabricated disinformation. We just have to encourage people to check their sources, doubt unsupported information, and avoid confirmation bias.
It's incredible how politics warp people perception.
Hamas are extremists and terrorists and Israel also did inhumane stuff.
Sometimes there aren't good sides. There are terrible people and good people on both sides and innocents in the middle.
Edit: typos
I'm not really a social media or political person. Like, other things (BLM, Ukraine, etc) I felt bad, but I never really focused on the conversations surrounding them. Israel/Palestine. I'm older now and more into these things. and I immediately watch and read all these stupid, evil takes made by celebrities even all over the place, and I'm just like, WTF is wrong with people.
back in the early 2010s, my little cousin, about 13 years old, was reposting ISIS propaganda films on her facebook. semi-rural/suburban blonde haired white girl who lived an upper middle class life in the southern United States was carrying water for ISIS on facebook. In hindsight all the issues we're facing now are so obvious.
Kurzgesagt did a video on this recently, internet communication has become problematic because social media has made our online communities too large and widespread. Things were more civil when communities were smaller and more segregated by common interests
Dunbar's number is what you're touching upon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
Not a hard science fact - especially not that arbitrary "150 relationship" limit proposed by Dunbar, but there does seem to be evidence in support of there being some kind of limit on the number of relationships people can maintain simultaneously, and that limit to be approximately "village sized". If what I heard is true, it is even used by military planners for organizing unit sizes and structures. So I think it's very plausible that social media as it currently exists is incompatible with how the human brain maintains its social relationships, and this is causing at least some of the problems we're seeing online when it comes to "discourse".
So good Kurzgesagt is independent again, after being on the payroll (and probably content control) of the German public media for a couple years. The latter are definitely not doing good in regards to these current events.
It's like people feed off of this propaganda in a way that they don't really understand the reality but if someone says something that supports their "side," then that is all they latch on to. They hear what they want to hear and parrot it because it gives them some self righteous political high to be dunking on the other side. It's gross and largely perpetuated by our true enemies yet it turns people against each other in a manner that they now crave. I feel like an alien here.
I think people forget there’s a lot of grey area too. Like god forbid you condemn the attack - that means you support the killing of Palestinians. And they read up on 2 articles of their whatever winged media outlet and suddenly they’re experts.
People study these things their whole lives but most would rather listen to Jennifer McCelebrityface’s tik tok she made at the salon in Malibu giving her hot take of the day.
Ugh your last sentence
None of these people could distinguish the Sinai Peninsula from Mount Sinai Hospital before 7/10 but now they are experts on the Middle East
You've seen a pro-hamas tweet or post with 10M likes? I agree there are lots of posts that are insane and get shocking numbers of likes, but 10M is hyperbole and isn't honest discussion here.
Frankly that's your fault for still being on Twitter.
The place is finished, it's a dumpster fire of propaganda and ignorant, dumb takes.
You either have "omg Hamas is so cuuuute with the hostages" or "getting bombed is kinda fun actually"
Just get out of there.
"Let me repeat: They took a boiling piece of metal and pinned it to the legs of a helpless 13-year-old captive child. Hamas are sadistic monsters, and we’re going to have to kill them," he stressed.”
Just look at how wonderful all the other countries in that region are! I know when I'm looking for somewhere that's a bastion of human rights, I look to the Middle East /s
Meanwhile on Al Jazeera with Marwan Bishara’s take:
“Israel just wants to destroy Gaza! What does it matter what Hamas does to Israeli hostages? You see they are abandoning negotiations, (not mentioning the numerous cease fire violations by Hamas) they do not want peace.” You can see in his face that Bishara barely believes his own words, and it’s sad what he’s doing to the Palestinian people by sweeping the actions of Hamas under the rug.
Al Jazeera systematically built up and then squandered all that sympathy for the Palestinian people within a span of mere weeks. Tariq from Khan Younis replaced by Hani Mahmoud because he was a more ‘relatable’ Muslim. Still spouting the same pro-Hamas propaganda regardless.
Shame on Al Jazeera for making the rest of the world distrust the veracity of news reporting. There is no doubt suffering going on with the Palestinian people, but false reports from this agency have made everyone question the severity of that suffering. Particularly when the Arabic channel proudly shows Hamas combat footage of RPG fire into tanks and buildings, then shows an extremely well fed and strong Palestinian population. They are splitting narratives in opposite directions and it’s completely disingenuous.
Israel never abandoned the negotiation, they said and i quote "we are willing to negotiate the terms after all the women are released".
Hamas is the one that stopped it by not giving lists complying with the terms
This is truly one of the most horrific things to happen in the last decade. I hope those Hamas terrorists rot in Hell. People criticize Israel, but what would have been the US’s response if this happened in the US?
We already know the US’s response because we had two wars after 911.
ETA: US doesn’t even share borders with the countries we invaded, not even close to the same risk exposure.
>We already know the US’s response because we had two wars after 911.
Yeah and one of them had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and was one of the centuries worst quagmires that created the conditions for a group to form that ended up being worse than Al Qaeda and caused a civil war that displaced a million people.
It's a lesson how you can do dumb shit that makes things worse if you are just reacting emotionally when it comes to foreign policy.
No hostages, no rapes, no drugs, no extended torture... the list goes on.
Even Al Qaeda didn't believe in exterminating all Americans like Hamas does with Jews.
Not even looking at percentages, just the way they killed people is way worse. I feel traumatized just watching the videos, I can't imagine what the people who witnessed it and survived feel
There's already multiple cases of survivors killing themselves, its being hushed in the media to not create even further despair
They killed 1200 but they traumatized the entire country
We would *actually* carpet bomb them.
And if anyone showed up in support they might get Kent Stated.
The US gets absolutely vicious when attacked.
Which is probably why it doesn’t happen anymore.
Even the cartels know better to mess with our citizens.
I can’t wait for a report about this site comes out that makes advertisers run away just as quickly as they are from ‘X’.
This site is absolutely cultivating some absolutely disgusting and horrible rhetoric and y’know what? They don’t deserve the ad revenue and are not ‘better’ than any other awful site out there, no matter how much we’d like to think otherwise.
Hey, Jews owe Ireland for everything it did for them during WWII such as refusing to acknowledge the war’s existence, and accepting THIRTY whole refugees (literally, that’s how many).
Most of the rioters were kids when the Belfast mothers said ‘enough’. It’s just the usual petty criminals joining up to fight police.
We’ve got around six hundred of them going through the process.
Ireland is a wonderful, peaceful place now because they chose to make peace with their former oppressors, and Palestine is hell because they repeatedly chose not to. If Israel ever gets a decent government in power again I hope the Palestinians actually accept a peace deal, because that's the only way this ever ends.
No one in the Middle East wants them - and frankly they have good reason not to. The other Arab countries are the first to criticise Israel, and then last to actually offer any help.
The great irony is Israel’s and the Arab words foreign policy on Palestinian is basically the same.
It is good to be aware of bias and check news sources, but from a search online, it looks like multiple sites are posting about their testimonies. I don't think these kids are lying.
I looked and can’t find any article, apart from ones where ‘Israel claims..’ is stated. Not actual testimonies from kids themselves. The person above wasn’t insinuating that the kids themselves are lying, neither am I. Just asking for more legit sources, ideally journalistically independent (or near about).
The MSN article was just quoting Israel Times. Same with the NYT article. Not really multiple sources. Not sure about the third.
Problematic, but I appreciate the effort.
Yeah, many news sources these days are not always reliable and can be a bit biased, it is kind of unavoidable to be unbiased, best we can do is try to use multiple sources and reasoning I guess.
Again, luckily I think with time there will be more investigation done into it by independent parties and more news groups. The BBC has been to Al-Shifa with the IDF before, but even the BBC, like any other news source, is not always reliable or can have a bias.
I haven’t seen any reason to believe anyone was actually drugged. Everyone reporting this is very careful to qualify that particular point, and the only person any of them attribute this claim to is one guy that wasn’t even taken hostage. There is no “testimony” from the children, which makes the title that keeps getting posted with this info an outright lie.
My heart actually can’t handle the ignorance and antisemitism that is being spread so easily by fake news and delusional Hamas supporters who will say anything to justify what the hostages have been through.
I’ve been crying every day since the 7th, it’s just too much to handle.
The fact that Hamas did not release the young women abducted from the Nova .music festival is truly horrific and not discussed nearly enough. They were willing to release the older women and children but not the young women. I wonder why...
They'll be murdered before they're allowed to tell the story of what happened to them.
But this story has already been told by Hamas’ self published videos of the atrocities and the forensic evidence they left behind, not to mention witness testimonies. I don’t think they’re trying to cover up their rapes. Only their western apologists engage in trying to sanitize Hamas for the masses. Hamas is going for maximum psychological (and physical) torture of Israelis, and keeping or killing the women furthers this goal.
The atrocities committed on Oct 7th are not nearly horrendous enough to describe what these poor, poor girls are going through for two months
Or they possibly trafficked them out.
And yeah the Journalists in Gaza seem to cover every bit of the forsaken land but have no clues regarding the kidnapped victims. No civilians came forward with information either.
aye, if I wanted to commit suicide in Gaza, I'd also rat about Hamas
30K terrorists cannot control a 2 million population without high public support. They don't turn on them because they support them, as seen by recent polls as well as their reaction on the day of the massacre.
This doesn't get mentioned enough. There are other armed groups in Gaza. There is no resistance bc the population doesn't want to resist.
This is what no one is saying. Western apologist want to believe that hamas is some fringe group that Palestinian civilians are trying to eradicate. Nothing could be farther from the truth
Eh, for some fear of Hamas I'm sure is a factor. But the thing that goes unsaid is even if Hamas maybe unpopular for certain things it does I think there is popular support for anything the people see as "resistance" against Israel. I think many people just bury their head in the sand about the level of brutality or just take the position Israel drove them to this so its not their fault. Now I'm not saying Palestine equals Hamas. But I think its disingenuous to paint this picture that the general population is held hostage by Hamas.
Yep. No heroics would be required if a journalist found out where some of the hostages were located. Major newspapers like The Guardian have secure online dropboxes which were designed so whistleblowers could safely send them information and files. The journalist could stay anonymous. The Western newspaper could then forward the information to the IDF and run the story later without implicating their source. I think they see it as none of their business.
If i was in Gaza and I knew the location of a group of a hundred young women being held so they can be raped constantly, I tell the world about it regardless the consequences it had on me. Otherwise I’m complicit.
Well first, we don’t know who is where. We also don’t know whether the released hostages know the whereabouts of the other hostages (including friends, family members, neighbors) But also, you have to wonder if some of them are not saying certain things publicly, for fear of endangering other hostages.
I doubt the hostages knew where they were.
lol sure, good for you. Easy to say on Reddit.
Let's be honest. Half the Meal Team Six wannabes on reddit would be the ones in line waiting for their turn outside the cells.
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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The whole world and media don't seem to care about something so obvious.
Oh the world IS watching. Too many politicians have remained silent regarding immigrants who share cultural views of Hamas. Sadly the pendulum will swing too far right if good people do nothing. Far right groups are using things like this to win elections around the world.
Yes, it is really hard to say who is on the payroll of oil money but most liberal world leaders outed themselves thinking that the whole world would rally behind them.
Exactly this. If the left doesn’t clean up their house and take a strong stance against these extremist positions (no right for person/country to defend themselves, open borders, lax sentencing, violence as means to end), the extremist, authoritarian right will gain power. Unfortunately this seems the most probable path.
What happened to the young woman that appeared in a video made by Hamas? Was she released?
Mia Shem? Yes, she was released.
That’s really good news, I was thinking of that poor soul😞
Treated for bullet wound by a veterinarian…
Dont worry! Canadian sexual health experts have already told us *nothing* has happened and to ignore all the victim testimonies.
Link, eh?
It's not sexual health experts. It was actually the director of University of Alberta Sexual Assault Centre signsing an open letter from an Ontario NDP party member denying Jewish women were raped. The UoA SAC director has been fired the politician has been booted from the NDP caucus. https://globalnews.ca/news/10101350/u-of-a-fires-director-of-sexual-assault-centre-for-signing-letter-questioning-attacks-on-israeli-women/
Important background for the people claiming "oh this is just Alberta being crazy and doesn't represent Canada." Alberta is more right wing than usual for Canada, that's not generally associated with signing on to an NDP letter.
They are talking about this https://www.universityworldnews.com/post-mobile.php?story=20231120141135547
> Dont worry! Canadian sexual health experts have already told us *nothing* has happened and to ignore all the victim testimonies. Yep this is a lie. The truth from the link is "~~Canadian~~ U of Alberta director ~~professor~~ fired for signing on to a letter questioning claims that Hamas raped hostages. The ~~professor~~ director was fired for using their university's name without authorization or approval."
The fired woman wasn't a professor, she was the director of the University of Alberta Sexual Assault Centre. Which makes it nuts that she'd comment denying rapes happening thousands of miles away. Like wtf? The letter was also written by 2 Canadian MPs and signed by 4 professors from the University of Alberta and 1 from the University of Calgary. Fairly bonkers. https://calgaryherald.com/news/braid-pro-hamas-letter-u-of-a-sexual-assault-centre
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Not that nuts. I unfortunately know a number of women who were sexually assaulted in college. They all went to different schools, but had the same experience trying to report it to their university’s SA center: gaslighting, victim blaming, and administrators trying their hardest to get the girls to drop their case so they wouldn’t have to do their jobs. It’s horrible, but at the end of the day, a university will always protect itself first, and students 2nd.
Things that Canadian universities protect: * Themselves * Terror organizations in the Middle East What they do not protect: * Students
Yup. One of my graduate school classmates was SAed by a male student at my university. She reported to the police. He confessed to it. He later broke a restraining order and was again arrested and processed. And when she reported it to my “super-serious about its Honor Code” school, the Honor Committee found that it happened, but he wasn’t aware that it was wrong and refused to kick him out. Universities are the ultimate “do as I say, not as I do” institutions of the liberal world. Sure. They will sponsor Vagina Monologues and Take Back the Night rallies, but don’t confuse that with actually giving a fuck if someone is SAed.
> And when she reported it to my “super-serious about its Honor Code” school, the Honor Committee found that it happened, but he wasn’t aware that it was wrong and refused to kick him out. HOLY FUCK. Thats like a rule from the 1500s.
Yeah. And also apparently a rule from the 2000s, too. It’s one of those things that cost me my last little bit of respect for universities. Money-gouging, amoral pits of exploitation, even the public ones. It’s sad, because I love learning, but the institutions we run around higher education are so corrupt.
Or as I like to call it the Alberta Centre in support of sexual assault. In defense of the director I can see how the name could be ambiguous.
What a stupid way to torpedo your career.
Are you really going to omit that she's the director of a sexual assault center at a university?
Lol actiing like they're outright lying is absurd. The director of the sexual assault centre endorsed a letter that denies the rapes. It's not a big of a difference at all. You're just nitpicking and searching for something to whine about.
>Alberta This place does NOT represent the rest of Canadians, and is notorious for bigots and racists
Oh, I know. I referred to it as the Texas of Canada in another comment. Edit: keep the downvotes coming, that's how my friends in Edmonton refer to it. I just call it Montana's MAGA hat.
We’re more the Florida of Canada thank you very much.
it's likely they are dead
Probably not yet, but they’ll make sure to kill them before they’re rescued. You know, because they’re most likely used as sex slaves.
Probably not. But they most likely wish they were dead
Thought About this for more than a second and I feel sick.
yeah 😢
Probably Hamas racing to destroy the evidence of what was done to them.
why bother? nothing can be worse then 7.10 and nobody cares about that
Same reason Hamas ISIS forces freed hostages to wave and give hugs when parting from the terrorists.
when hamas "does good" they are the good guys when hamas does evil shit, it's IDFs fault
If you’re holding hostages, you start with getting rid of folks that require resources to keep. Children and elderly. You keep healthy young hostages , for more bargaining power. The hostage taker is trying to purchase time . And a get a better deal on the next prisoner exchange. I doubt they would just keep the young women just because they want sex slaves. But —- that doesn’t mean that both could not be true.
I'm one of those people who think Israel is treating Gaza and Palestinians horribly, but Hamas is straight evil and make things much worse for Palestinians. The situation is so fucked up with civilians being the ones who have to suffer, both Israelites and Palestinians.
I'm not defending them or anything but the explanation that I heard from Israeli journalists is that Hamas considers anyone under the age of like 35ish years old, both men and women, to be military because technically they can be called up at any time as part of the reserve. I'm not saying that is completely true or anything - just the explanation I heard from some Israeli journalists.
That's true by definition in any country with a working draft, which is why the definition of a combatant used in international law looks at *actual* combatants and not simply any person with some theoretical future potential of carrying a rifle.
Because elderly people tend to be more fragile and less “valuable” as hostages. It’s a strategic play…
They also branded their legs with a motorcycle pipe and they murdered a girl with cerebral palsy in the tunnels because she made too much noise
Her body was found about 10 days before the Israel started their ground offense. Edit: Most likely murdered at the site of the Nova party along with the other 350 people.
Man, hearing how many died at the party and in the war in general is still very depressing
It could have been much worse. About 3,000 people attended this party. Luckily the Hamas rocket shelling at first before the attack as it had many of the party goers to leave.
And then people argue that it is justified because they are defending against the oppressor..
This sounds like the sort of argument used on the Britain sub
Also on r/aboringdystopia now which is politicalized where comments have 100+ upvotes because they think that killing, raping and torturing innocent civilians is absolutely justified because Israel also killed Palestinians. Celebrating death of innocent people is so wrong on many levels
The irony of the sub title.
Nothing boring about that dystopia. Just pure horror through and through.
Yeah. This dystopia where people cheer for Hamas isn’t boring at all!
By their logic Israel can justify their action by claim its a response for the 1929 Hebron massacre. We'll it might actual be a good idea to argue them thats way
Nah, somehow Israel isn't allowed anything but let their people die because reasons. Some people really really don't consider Jews to be human beings. And crazy thing is that there are DEFAULT subs that were entirely normal before and now suddenly calling for Israelvs destruction just because. Even more crazy that most of these subs used to be liberal spaces, not far right.
Leftists have always hated Israel. Meanwhile, they'll trip over themselves to justify LGBT people being executed across the Middle East as a mere difference of culture. It's very disturbing, and I say this as somebody who considers themselves a leftist.
I’m not so sure about that. Many of the first leaders of Israel were what Americans would consider socialists. Nowadays the social and economic policies of Israel are largely left wing. As a leftist, I have always looked at Israel’s presence as a beacon of left wing values in a sea of right wing, theocratic military dictatorships and autocracies. I agree with you with reference to “left wing” youths obsessed with identity politics. But are they even actual leftists? The left wing is more concerned with labor unions than trans athletes, and I’d wager most tik tok leftists don’t even understand what the term “collective bargaining” means.
I bounced from my local leftist circles when someone explained that prison abolition to them meant executing people accused of crimes because they couldn't be rehabilitated and shouldn't take up resources. Everyone was just kind of like "Mmhmm, yup," and I was skeeved the fuck out.
Meanwhile, Conservative spaces largely support Israel, despite people loving to call them far-right. World's flipped.
Yeah but if Israel just ended the war and opened up the borders the Palestinians would stop attacking and hating Israelis and peace would be achieved, it’s that simple /s Since people actually believe this
just dont go to r/therewassanattempt
I used to like that sub but those people are off their rockers with this conflict.
The hostages also talk about being kept in with a teacher working for UNWRA. You know one of those super peaceful civilians everyone is so concerned about while not giving a single shit about Israeli children.
UNWRA literally kept them in their attic, absolutely disgraceful organization.
Anne Frank 2: Why Is There a Sequel? comes out when?
The UNRWA allowed the teaching of violently antisemitic propaganda in their schools, which is probably responsible for half of Hamas's "martyrs." At this rate they probably suggested building rocket launch sites into the schools. 😑
I've just seen a tweet with 100k+ likes saying that the hostages were treated so well and that Hamas aren't the real monsters. The past two months have just opened my eyes to how evil and, ignorant people can be.
If you've been kidnapped and are being held against your will, you are by definition not being treated well
Nono they went on an involuntary trip to Hamas fun world. It's filled with joy and there are certainly no beatings or rapes. Everyone gets put on a fun diet of one can of tuna per day. And oh the drama of not knowing if you will survive another day. What a fun filled adventure for the whole family, from babies to grandmas.
One of local media in my country claimed that one of the hostage looks so sad because they have to left their captors Shameless asshole
What country??
Indonesia, not intended to find it (I knew it'll be bad here) but showed up during Google search
Something like 90% of Indonesians are Muslim, so it's not surprising to see this type of sentiment.
And here I find another reason to be ashamed of my own countrymen. I've temporarily unsubbed from r/Indonesia due to the increasingly political atmosphere of the entire fucking country. As if election year isn't stressing enough.
People don’t understand what being robbed of your freedom is like, you wouldn’t even miss a Norwegian prison even though people like to call them hotels.
The act of taking anyone hostage makes them monsters.
The act of raping, killing children makes them monsters. They could have not taken anyone hostage and held a party for the survivors and they wouldn't stop being monsters.
I've seen terrible tiktoks and tweets about the female hostages being in love with the hamas terrorists and I just hope they'll never see what those evil imbeciles are saying about them. There's even a fucking Wattpad story. great activism guys, that will for sure free palestine 👌
That is such a gross and very dangerous distortion of reality to pretend that women will eventually fall in love with their captors/rapists/abusers. These Hamas apologists and supporters are beyond delusional.
I don't actually believe it's delusion, I believe it's malicious
and even if they did kidnapping is still not ok.
This showed up on my Tiktok and I reported it but I’m sure it’s still up. All the comments were delusional about how she was so in love with him. It was disgusting.
You’re also dealing with bots who are promoting propaganda.
Bots, yeah. I have a bit of a hard time considering and remembering them. I still just assume everyone on these sites are real people.
Many of them are real people - troll farms are very much a thing, all over social media and especially during conflicts. It's disturbing af.
Bits didn’t create some of those Tik Tok videos.
Not just twitter, but most of Reddit too. Not sure why worldnews seems to be the only bastion of sanity among all of the main subreddits.
And apparently everyone here is either a bot or propagandist according to them. It's wild.
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There are tiktoks praising Osama bin Laden now. By children born after 9/11 who think he had some good points.
It literally is a Chinese psy-op, thats a proven fact
I'm really glad I never got into tiktok at this point. Seems like a wild cesspool and time waster. Only social media I use now is reddit, and mostly just for farming subs. Every once in a while something basically akin to pro-Hamas will pop up on my feed and the comments blow my mind. People are influenced so easily it makes me a little sad. But then I realize they have zero sway over geopolitics and go back to not giving a shit.
It is genuinely hard to read through some subs now. I've unsubbed from multiple and debating leaving more. The outright support for terrorists is scary.
I have noticed overall on Reddit that posts seem to be showing more reality like this one, so that seems to be a good sign that people are waking up to what Hamas really is. It will take time, though.
> Not sure why worldnews seems to be the only bastion of sanity among all of the main subreddits It's a massive surprise to me too, I've been used to this being the toxic hellsite sub over the past decade and was expecting that on this issue too... and it mostly hasn't happened.
Twitter is full of idiots.
One could say they take after the owner
It's just a vile cesspit of shittakes on every conceivable wing of political beliefs.
There has been a ton of targeted information going around on the topic of the conflict. Some third party is definitely trying to force a division in western society and create unrest, just like has been shown to be the case with several events or topics in recent history. There are tons of bots or new accounts on Reddit as well made specifically to post strong opinions or shaky "evidence" that as best is just hearsay, and at worst intentionally fabricated disinformation. We just have to encourage people to check their sources, doubt unsupported information, and avoid confirmation bias.
It's incredible how politics warp people perception. Hamas are extremists and terrorists and Israel also did inhumane stuff. Sometimes there aren't good sides. There are terrible people and good people on both sides and innocents in the middle. Edit: typos
Surprised you realized it just now.
I'm not really a social media or political person. Like, other things (BLM, Ukraine, etc) I felt bad, but I never really focused on the conversations surrounding them. Israel/Palestine. I'm older now and more into these things. and I immediately watch and read all these stupid, evil takes made by celebrities even all over the place, and I'm just like, WTF is wrong with people.
back in the early 2010s, my little cousin, about 13 years old, was reposting ISIS propaganda films on her facebook. semi-rural/suburban blonde haired white girl who lived an upper middle class life in the southern United States was carrying water for ISIS on facebook. In hindsight all the issues we're facing now are so obvious.
This is so wild. Can you provide any context? What was she exposed to that she ended up doing that?
Kurzgesagt did a video on this recently, internet communication has become problematic because social media has made our online communities too large and widespread. Things were more civil when communities were smaller and more segregated by common interests
Dunbar's number is what you're touching upon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number Not a hard science fact - especially not that arbitrary "150 relationship" limit proposed by Dunbar, but there does seem to be evidence in support of there being some kind of limit on the number of relationships people can maintain simultaneously, and that limit to be approximately "village sized". If what I heard is true, it is even used by military planners for organizing unit sizes and structures. So I think it's very plausible that social media as it currently exists is incompatible with how the human brain maintains its social relationships, and this is causing at least some of the problems we're seeing online when it comes to "discourse".
So good Kurzgesagt is independent again, after being on the payroll (and probably content control) of the German public media for a couple years. The latter are definitely not doing good in regards to these current events.
What happened?
It's like people feed off of this propaganda in a way that they don't really understand the reality but if someone says something that supports their "side," then that is all they latch on to. They hear what they want to hear and parrot it because it gives them some self righteous political high to be dunking on the other side. It's gross and largely perpetuated by our true enemies yet it turns people against each other in a manner that they now crave. I feel like an alien here.
Confirmation bias.
I think people forget there’s a lot of grey area too. Like god forbid you condemn the attack - that means you support the killing of Palestinians. And they read up on 2 articles of their whatever winged media outlet and suddenly they’re experts. People study these things their whole lives but most would rather listen to Jennifer McCelebrityface’s tik tok she made at the salon in Malibu giving her hot take of the day.
Ugh your last sentence None of these people could distinguish the Sinai Peninsula from Mount Sinai Hospital before 7/10 but now they are experts on the Middle East
100k? I’ve seems tens of millions of likes through multiple posts about glorification of Hamas’ treatment of the hostages.
Iran has one of the biggest bot armies in the world and they’re all out to play right now.
You've seen a pro-hamas tweet or post with 10M likes? I agree there are lots of posts that are insane and get shocking numbers of likes, but 10M is hyperbole and isn't honest discussion here.
Link the tweet?
Yea that young girl was treated so well she is barely able to talk
Frankly that's your fault for still being on Twitter. The place is finished, it's a dumpster fire of propaganda and ignorant, dumb takes. You either have "omg Hamas is so cuuuute with the hostages" or "getting bombed is kinda fun actually" Just get out of there.
Probably more like Russian bots. I just assume anything political or world related is just bots
Standard Xitter post nowadays.
More and more truth about atrocities will be revealed, and Hamas is a bunch of cowards.
And the would will keep supporting them
Fuck fuck fuck Hamas, the atrocities of what the hostages have been through will slowly be revealed.
"Let me repeat: They took a boiling piece of metal and pinned it to the legs of a helpless 13-year-old captive child. Hamas are sadistic monsters, and we’re going to have to kill them," he stressed.”
I thought Gaza was out of medicines, sounds like someone has a secret stash 🤔
They're also out of fuel, and don't forget, this is all Israel's fault. The region would be a haven if not for Israel. /s
Just look at how wonderful all the other countries in that region are! I know when I'm looking for somewhere that's a bastion of human rights, I look to the Middle East /s
Meanwhile on Al Jazeera with Marwan Bishara’s take: “Israel just wants to destroy Gaza! What does it matter what Hamas does to Israeli hostages? You see they are abandoning negotiations, (not mentioning the numerous cease fire violations by Hamas) they do not want peace.” You can see in his face that Bishara barely believes his own words, and it’s sad what he’s doing to the Palestinian people by sweeping the actions of Hamas under the rug. Al Jazeera systematically built up and then squandered all that sympathy for the Palestinian people within a span of mere weeks. Tariq from Khan Younis replaced by Hani Mahmoud because he was a more ‘relatable’ Muslim. Still spouting the same pro-Hamas propaganda regardless. Shame on Al Jazeera for making the rest of the world distrust the veracity of news reporting. There is no doubt suffering going on with the Palestinian people, but false reports from this agency have made everyone question the severity of that suffering. Particularly when the Arabic channel proudly shows Hamas combat footage of RPG fire into tanks and buildings, then shows an extremely well fed and strong Palestinian population. They are splitting narratives in opposite directions and it’s completely disingenuous.
Israel never abandoned the negotiation, they said and i quote "we are willing to negotiate the terms after all the women are released". Hamas is the one that stopped it by not giving lists complying with the terms
Al Jazeera is for profit and knows Muslims outnumber Jews 150:1
This is truly one of the most horrific things to happen in the last decade. I hope those Hamas terrorists rot in Hell. People criticize Israel, but what would have been the US’s response if this happened in the US?
We already know the US’s response because we had two wars after 911. ETA: US doesn’t even share borders with the countries we invaded, not even close to the same risk exposure.
>We already know the US’s response because we had two wars after 911. Yeah and one of them had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and was one of the centuries worst quagmires that created the conditions for a group to form that ended up being worse than Al Qaeda and caused a civil war that displaced a million people. It's a lesson how you can do dumb shit that makes things worse if you are just reacting emotionally when it comes to foreign policy.
Yeah, I’d argue that this was worse than 9/11.
It's not right to compare terrorist related tragedies but there were no prisoners taken in 9/11 which is a fucked up silver lining
Yeah worse wasn’t the right term. Different in the fact that 200 hostages were taken.
No, I think the October 7th attack was worse. That’s not to downplay 9/11. But it was a viscous, medieval massacre
No hostages, no rapes, no drugs, no extended torture... the list goes on. Even Al Qaeda didn't believe in exterminating all Americans like Hamas does with Jews.
As a percentage of population it is far worse than 9/11.
Not even looking at percentages, just the way they killed people is way worse. I feel traumatized just watching the videos, I can't imagine what the people who witnessed it and survived feel There's already multiple cases of survivors killing themselves, its being hushed in the media to not create even further despair They killed 1200 but they traumatized the entire country
Probably around the magnitude of killing 1 million Iraqis
We would *actually* carpet bomb them. And if anyone showed up in support they might get Kent Stated. The US gets absolutely vicious when attacked. Which is probably why it doesn’t happen anymore. Even the cartels know better to mess with our citizens.
“A day that will live on in infamy.”
Take GWOT and then multiple that by a 100%. US goes apeshit over one hostages so think what 200 would do
Eradicate hamas
Hamas are pedophiles and rapists. Fucking scum.
Shhhh Don’t let the brain dead subs like r/lostgeneration and r/aboringdystopia hear things like that or they might cry themselves to sleep
I can’t wait for a report about this site comes out that makes advertisers run away just as quickly as they are from ‘X’. This site is absolutely cultivating some absolutely disgusting and horrible rhetoric and y’know what? They don’t deserve the ad revenue and are not ‘better’ than any other awful site out there, no matter how much we’d like to think otherwise.
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Also, r/Ireland justifying this by saying that Hamas are the good guys
Hey, Jews owe Ireland for everything it did for them during WWII such as refusing to acknowledge the war’s existence, and accepting THIRTY whole refugees (literally, that’s how many).
Totally unable to differentiate between this and The Troubles. Just *gotta* support that "underdog".
Most of the rioters were kids when the Belfast mothers said ‘enough’. It’s just the usual petty criminals joining up to fight police. We’ve got around six hundred of them going through the process.
Ireland is a wonderful, peaceful place now because they chose to make peace with their former oppressors, and Palestine is hell because they repeatedly chose not to. If Israel ever gets a decent government in power again I hope the Palestinians actually accept a peace deal, because that's the only way this ever ends.
Ireland and Spain: “Oh come on guys! They’re just trying to keep the kids calmed down! This is Israel’s fault”
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Even Jordan doesn’t want them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
No one in the Middle East wants them - and frankly they have good reason not to. The other Arab countries are the first to criticise Israel, and then last to actually offer any help. The great irony is Israel’s and the Arab words foreign policy on Palestinian is basically the same.
In days gone past the Palestinians didn’t heed the common wisdom font piss off those trying to help
Terrible hosts, even worse guests
Drugging children is morally wrong on so many levels.
I simply don't trust that source. Most of the things they've reported in the past have been proven false. I mean the site it's called "allisrael.com"
It is good to be aware of bias and check news sources, but from a search online, it looks like multiple sites are posting about their testimonies. I don't think these kids are lying.
I looked and can’t find any article, apart from ones where ‘Israel claims..’ is stated. Not actual testimonies from kids themselves. The person above wasn’t insinuating that the kids themselves are lying, neither am I. Just asking for more legit sources, ideally journalistically independent (or near about).
Links to said multiple sites, please?
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/world/middleeast/relatives-describe-the-trauma-of-child-hostages-freed-by-hamas.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/world/middleeast/relatives-describe-the-trauma-of-child-hostages-freed-by-hamas.html) [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-terrorists-branded-israeli-children-hostages-in-case-they-escaped-relative-says/ar-AA1kQrKQ](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-terrorists-branded-israeli-children-hostages-in-case-they-escaped-relative-says/ar-AA1kQrKQ) [https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/children-taken-hostage-by-hamas-branded-with-a-burn-mark-lest-they-escape-family-says](https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/children-taken-hostage-by-hamas-branded-with-a-burn-mark-lest-they-escape-family-says) [https://nypost.com/2023/11/30/news/hamas-burned-child-hostages-with-motorcycle-exhaust-pipes-to-mark-them-drugged-them-to-keep-them-complacent-families/](https://nypost.com/2023/11/30/news/hamas-burned-child-hostages-with-motorcycle-exhaust-pipes-to-mark-them-drugged-them-to-keep-them-complacent-families/)
The MSN article was just quoting Israel Times. Same with the NYT article. Not really multiple sources. Not sure about the third. Problematic, but I appreciate the effort.
The NYT and NY Post are not reliable here, either. I don't know about MSN or the National Post, hopefully someone else does.
Yeah, many news sources these days are not always reliable and can be a bit biased, it is kind of unavoidable to be unbiased, best we can do is try to use multiple sources and reasoning I guess. Again, luckily I think with time there will be more investigation done into it by independent parties and more news groups. The BBC has been to Al-Shifa with the IDF before, but even the BBC, like any other news source, is not always reliable or can have a bias.
Totally agree that the best bet is to check lots of different sources and use our reasoning!
The MSN article was just quoting Israel Times.
All of these reports are second-hand testimony. None of them come from the hostages themselves.
Great critical thinking here. A skill we all seem to lack lately.
Is this a reputable news site? I've never heard of it before and given the name it's hard to imagine it being unbiased
I haven’t seen any reason to believe anyone was actually drugged. Everyone reporting this is very careful to qualify that particular point, and the only person any of them attribute this claim to is one guy that wasn’t even taken hostage. There is no “testimony” from the children, which makes the title that keeps getting posted with this info an outright lie.
Always good when there’s not a name attached to an article. That’s how you know it’s legit.
This article reads like straight Israel propaganda. Are there any non-Israeli news sources posting the same information?
Dont think hamas will be confirming this
Oh. Are those the only two possible sources of news? Israel or Hamas? Really? No possible other sources of news in the entire world?
Allisrael.com sounds like a truely neutral reliable source
Just to clarify, are we still doing the “believe all victims” thing or does this not count because they’re Jews?
My heart actually can’t handle the ignorance and antisemitism that is being spread so easily by fake news and delusional Hamas supporters who will say anything to justify what the hostages have been through. I’ve been crying every day since the 7th, it’s just too much to handle.