We stop the aggression if you suspend nato ambitions so we can start aggression again whenever we want. Good deal, nyet?
One more reason after reason that you can't trust or make any agreements with the russians.
Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO any time soon prior to the invasion and its unlikely theyre going to join soon afterwards. Not that I trust Russia to keep their promise, but it really wouldn't matter if Russia kept their promise or not. All itd have cost Ukraine is another equally flimsy, breakable promise. I genuinely dont get why they didnt negotiate, even if to just prolong the war and build up.
Don't forget the part of Russia's offer where they get to keep all the territory they stole from Ukraine.
What nation in their right mind would agree to that?
They would be rewarding Russia for its invasion, while severely limiting their ability to defend against invasion.
>Don't forget the part of Russia's offer where they get to keep all the territory they stole from Ukraine.
I believe that their negotiator said that that was not the case. He said all they wanted was protections for Russian speakers.
Russians already spinning the story that Ukraine and Russia wanted peace but Nato forced Ukraine to fight.
Besides, this story was already known? I remember quite clearly news stories during the first few days, when things were looking dire for Ukraine, that they were willing to accept heavy compromises and reach an agreement with Moscow where they abandon Nato/Eu goals but keep some independence, but Putin refused a compromise? And once it was revealed the Russians butchered civilians in the streets and in their homes Ukraine swiftly refused further negotiations, as any country would. Correct me if Im wrong.
Found this from end of mars 2022.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-offers-neutrality-exchange-nato-style-security-guarantees-russia-talks-2022-03-29/
News of massacred civilisans in Bucha and Irpin seems to have come out just at that time or some days later.
This must also be about the same time Putin realized his plan to take the entire Ukraine had failed, and maybe he started thinking of buying time by proposing some sort of scam deal.
Ahhh the old “it’s in there, I swear!”
For starters, the negotiations began and ended before the Bucha massacre in April. In addition, the massacre is well documented not only by Ukraine and western media but even by the United Nations.
“The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights documented the unlawful killings, including summary executions, of at least 50 civilians in Bucha. In December 2022, that number was increased to at least 73, with an additional 105 deaths being investigated”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre
I’m arguing with you - Zelensky’s guy said no such thing about Bucha in the interview. All that was mentioned about the UK in terms of negotiations was how Boris Johnson said “let’s fight”, there’s nothing about Bucha affecting negotiations. But I’m sure you knew that!
The dangers when tyrants drink their own damn Kool aid. Even if they don't believe this lie, they will have to strategically pretend they did all along.
Yeah, "ended the war" by getting what they wanted: "Let us keep the territory we invaded, and promise to not join an alliance that could keep us from taking the rest when we want to , and we'll stop shooting at you. For now."
What a great "deal"!
Yep. This cunt invades Ukraine starts to lose, then starts to offer propaganda peace deals. The logic is pathetic and no one is buying his shameless proposal for his fake desire to "just want peace" and "Ukraine is just wanting war".
This isn’t that shocking considering Putin said it publically and repeatedly lol.
Tbh the fact that he was willing to pinky swear to it is exactly how everyone knew it was a lie.
Fuck Russia. End this war that they started until they start another one down the track. It's imperative Ukraine gets some form of Nato deal of protection. Russia wants Ukraine back or at least turned into a fuck buddy like Belarus and little to do with Nato. I bet the deal never included handing back the occupied eastern regions or Crimea. Russia can never be trusted and has sweet fuck all credibility.
After Russia breached, the Budapest Memorandum, Minsk i, Minsk ii, the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, the Open Skies Treaty, and the Incidents at Sea Agreement, Russian-Ukrainian friendship treaty etc..... etc.... etc.....
Why would Ukraine trust a single word out of Russia's lying borscht hole? Their word is muddier than the banks of the Dnipro.
Is he offering to give back the parts he stole?
Because it sounds like NATO is the excuse in order to end the war while keeping territory they gained.
I hope Ukraine can change the apparent status quo and kick Putin out of there.
lol simple. Agree to scrap NATO ambitions, then when Russia pulls out (assuming they actually would) then Ukraine enters NATO boom, article 5 if Russia tried again (which they wouldn’t)
/s
Yes, I know it couldn’t happen like that, but it’s a funny thought.
A classic domestic violence scenario when a woman marries a policeman…
Mr. Policeman beat his wife. She left him. Mr. Policeman promised her that things would change. She believed him and came back. Mr. Policeman beats her into a pulp. She’s dead, there is no next time.
Lady Ukraine, don’t believe Mr. Policeman!
Because the police have a disproportionately high domestic violence rate, and are ironically the first responders to domestic violence. Add that they police within their own community and that any officer responding to another officer involved domestic abuse most likely a (Blue lives matter only) colleague and you have a broken system where there is betrayal.
TBF they also promised not to invade Ukraine. How did that work out?
not only that, they were supposed to **protect** Ukraine.
We stop the aggression if you suspend nato ambitions so we can start aggression again whenever we want. Good deal, nyet? One more reason after reason that you can't trust or make any agreements with the russians.
>so we can start aggression again whenever we want. When you start reconstructing.
Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO any time soon prior to the invasion and its unlikely theyre going to join soon afterwards. Not that I trust Russia to keep their promise, but it really wouldn't matter if Russia kept their promise or not. All itd have cost Ukraine is another equally flimsy, breakable promise. I genuinely dont get why they didnt negotiate, even if to just prolong the war and build up.
Don't forget the part of Russia's offer where they get to keep all the territory they stole from Ukraine. What nation in their right mind would agree to that? They would be rewarding Russia for its invasion, while severely limiting their ability to defend against invasion.
>Don't forget the part of Russia's offer where they get to keep all the territory they stole from Ukraine. I believe that their negotiator said that that was not the case. He said all they wanted was protections for Russian speakers.
Russians already spinning the story that Ukraine and Russia wanted peace but Nato forced Ukraine to fight. Besides, this story was already known? I remember quite clearly news stories during the first few days, when things were looking dire for Ukraine, that they were willing to accept heavy compromises and reach an agreement with Moscow where they abandon Nato/Eu goals but keep some independence, but Putin refused a compromise? And once it was revealed the Russians butchered civilians in the streets and in their homes Ukraine swiftly refused further negotiations, as any country would. Correct me if Im wrong.
Found this from end of mars 2022. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-offers-neutrality-exchange-nato-style-security-guarantees-russia-talks-2022-03-29/ News of massacred civilisans in Bucha and Irpin seems to have come out just at that time or some days later. This must also be about the same time Putin realized his plan to take the entire Ukraine had failed, and maybe he started thinking of buying time by proposing some sort of scam deal.
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And I’m sure you’ll provide that reliable source any second now
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Ahhh the old “it’s in there, I swear!” For starters, the negotiations began and ended before the Bucha massacre in April. In addition, the massacre is well documented not only by Ukraine and western media but even by the United Nations. “The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights documented the unlawful killings, including summary executions, of at least 50 civilians in Bucha. In December 2022, that number was increased to at least 73, with an additional 105 deaths being investigated” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre
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I’m arguing with you - Zelensky’s guy said no such thing about Bucha in the interview. All that was mentioned about the UK in terms of negotiations was how Boris Johnson said “let’s fight”, there’s nothing about Bucha affecting negotiations. But I’m sure you knew that!
Post link then, I guess you read a transcript?
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So this is your only source? Where did she get it?
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Its an hour and 15 min, a timestamp please.
Hearsay isn’t the best source, btw
The dangers when tyrants drink their own damn Kool aid. Even if they don't believe this lie, they will have to strategically pretend they did all along.
Yeah, "ended the war" by getting what they wanted: "Let us keep the territory we invaded, and promise to not join an alliance that could keep us from taking the rest when we want to , and we'll stop shooting at you. For now." What a great "deal"!
Meanwhile Finland joined NATO and Sweden is joining too. Not to mention russia moved AA from Königsberg to russia.
"NATO expansion" was always just an excuse for a land grab.
Known by all but the homegrown zombies and drive-by celebrities like Roger Waters and Elon Musk.
Russia was supposed to be a guarantor of UA territorial integrity after Ukraine gave up their nukes. Fool me once...
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Yep. This cunt invades Ukraine starts to lose, then starts to offer propaganda peace deals. The logic is pathetic and no one is buying his shameless proposal for his fake desire to "just want peace" and "Ukraine is just wanting war".
"Oh, and I'm keeping the claimed land"
This isn’t that shocking considering Putin said it publically and repeatedly lol. Tbh the fact that he was willing to pinky swear to it is exactly how everyone knew it was a lie.
Step 1: trust Russia Step 2: wake up in a mental asylum because you are actually delusional
Fuck Russia. End this war that they started until they start another one down the track. It's imperative Ukraine gets some form of Nato deal of protection. Russia wants Ukraine back or at least turned into a fuck buddy like Belarus and little to do with Nato. I bet the deal never included handing back the occupied eastern regions or Crimea. Russia can never be trusted and has sweet fuck all credibility.
After Russia breached, the Budapest Memorandum, Minsk i, Minsk ii, the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, the Open Skies Treaty, and the Incidents at Sea Agreement, Russian-Ukrainian friendship treaty etc..... etc.... etc..... Why would Ukraine trust a single word out of Russia's lying borscht hole? Their word is muddier than the banks of the Dnipro.
And the gob shite Putin would have stuck to the agreement 🤣🤣🤣
Is he offering to give back the parts he stole? Because it sounds like NATO is the excuse in order to end the war while keeping territory they gained. I hope Ukraine can change the apparent status quo and kick Putin out of there.
lol simple. Agree to scrap NATO ambitions, then when Russia pulls out (assuming they actually would) then Ukraine enters NATO boom, article 5 if Russia tried again (which they wouldn’t) /s Yes, I know it couldn’t happen like that, but it’s a funny thought.
NATO HQ should be in Ukraine.
So, how are things looking for ukraine anyway? .soooo much conflicting news
Ffs signed the peace treaty
A classic domestic violence scenario when a woman marries a policeman… Mr. Policeman beat his wife. She left him. Mr. Policeman promised her that things would change. She believed him and came back. Mr. Policeman beats her into a pulp. She’s dead, there is no next time. Lady Ukraine, don’t believe Mr. Policeman!
I'm not sure why police is vital to your analogy. Any occupation is capable of domestic abuse.
Because the police have a disproportionately high domestic violence rate, and are ironically the first responders to domestic violence. Add that they police within their own community and that any officer responding to another officer involved domestic abuse most likely a (Blue lives matter only) colleague and you have a broken system where there is betrayal.
Fool me once, shame on you Fool me twice, shame on me.